I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
"Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it." That very much reflects my view.
Having said, that, I'd retire tomorrow if I could afford to. I find my job interesting. I don't find it stressful. And I enjoy the company of my colleagues. I'm very lucky. But there are still dozens of things I'd find more pleasant or productive to do if I didn't have to spend my time earning money to live. And I don't think I'm unusual in this. I was out with some friends at the weekend in the 'coming up 50' age bracket, most of whom have made more optimal life choices than me for their long-term financial well-being, and I was quite taken aback by the number who plan to retire in the next few years.
This is why it makes no sense for the state to delay and waive taxes on the personal pensions that allow people to retire very early.
A pension pot around 500k plus the state pension would give around average wage from normal retirement age onwards. So yes, continue supporting saving to that level, maybe even be more generous. But beyond that and certainly past £1m pension pot the tax payer gets a double whammy of less tax now and the most productive people in the economy choosing to switch off early too.
OK given that it's a lazy, sunny Monday afternoon and I am just waiting for gin o'clock with a mate
Here's the OFFICIAL LEON LIST of the top ten THINGS to see in ALL THE WORLD
1. Gobekli Tepe and the Tas Tepeler 2. The City of London 3. Angkor Wat 4. Paris 5. Venice 6. The Antartcic Peninsula 7. The Old City of Jerusalem and the abutting Valley of the Shadow of Death 8. The National Parks of south Utah 9. Kyoto 10. The Solovetsky Islands in the White Sea of North Russia
@leon as someone wanting to plan more trips and not impressed with some I have done can you give reasons for some of your picks. Ignore 2,4,5.
Having visited Death Valley last year and being impressed, why Utah ahead of Death Valley. What is special about it?
PS just looked at some pictures of Utah - interesting.
Utah is a very lovely place.
I follow this guy on YouTube, he has one of the best jobs in the world. He’s a breakdown truck driver in and around the national parks in Utah. Spends his days pulling tourists out of the sand and rescuing dead off-road vehicles from the middle of nowhere. Epic backdrops to most of his videos, which explains why he has nearly 2m subscribers. http://www.youtube.com/@MattsOffRoadRecovery
One of our favourite memories is of Lake Louise, in Western Canada. We were in a hotel room overlooking the lake and I woke early, and looked out of the window. The lake was absolutely still, and the sun had just risen enough to make the whole scene look magical. One of the few times I've woken Mrs C early in the morning, and about the only time she really appreciated me doing so!
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
From seeing various family members retire - I would recommend tapering off with consultancy/part time working. If the work if appropriate for that and you don't massively hate it.
Lots to be said for that. If nothing else, it acknowledges the point made in one of Parkinson's subsiduary laws. Namely that if you don't force the boss out earlier than he wants, those in the generation and at the level below will go potty waiting for their turn. (Which does link to politics- the Trump/Biden generation have used their power to hang around much longer than is good for American society.)
Tricky psychologically, though. It needs a certain mindset to be happy going from being the one in charge to being the aged guru whose advice will (and often should) be ignored. Would probably also help if the experience of work was less dismal, so that the idea of stopping as soon as you can wasn't so damn attractive.
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom
East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop
It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens
It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...
Better than Wick, mind you
Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft
Rome is at the top of the second tier
Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon
But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul
Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind
Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital
Los Angeles and Chicago are both top tier world cities in economic terms, even if only the former in cultural terms and neither in heritage terms.
Shanghai and Seoul are also nearly top tier world cities if not already there
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
Even if we are subject to the same tariffs as the EU it's a Brexit benefit because we can choose our retaliatory tariffs to suit us.
Ah, our ability to suck up to an egotistical wannabe despot is a "Brexit Benefit". It has taken all these years to find any upside to the damage the ludicrous referendum has done for our country and this is the best one so far!
Incidentally, it is worth watching the interview with Trump when he mentions UK being "out of line". I think he meant to say EU out of line and then realised and didn't want to backtrack. A slip of the tongue anyone would make, or maybe a bit of brain fog from a 78 year old?
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
From seeing various family members retire - I would recommend tapering off with consultancy/part time working. If the work if appropriate for that and you don't massively hate it.
Indeed, it does depend on someone finding work one finds rewarding in some way. I largely like my work, so I am lucky. It is partly that perspective (and in spite of having a number of hobbies) that makes me think retirement would be ghastly by comparison. Also a number of my hobbies are hideously expensive so they need to be paid for!
That's the trouble with planning to travel in retirement; expensive. I was long past the time when I'd walk out the door and stick out a thumb. As I did once upon a time.
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.
I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.
There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
You’ve got to admire the principled attitude towards the Führerbunker, completely eradicating what would almost certainly be the most visited museum in the world. As it is it must be the world’s most visited car park. I see Berlin as a tangible, living fable: an aspiring imperial capital until it was shattered by 1918, the vital, exhilarating cultural experiment of Weimar shattered by the Nazis, the dark surrender to the worst of human nature ending in a shattered, divided city. It’s Homeric and puts Berlin right up there in terms of world significance.
I read Anthony Beevor's BERLIN on my first visit to Berlin
Fuck me, quite an experience. Reading of those intense horrors in the final days, then you look up and see the streets and parks described
Much better than any of his other books, although Stalingrad gets an honourable mention.
In his Arnhem he actually gets a few things wrong, which disappointed me.
What did he get wrong, out of interest?
I actually can't remember, although I cringed at the time
"Markets are retreating sharply today because investors had not expected a robust response from the countries hit by new US tariffs."
What did they expect exactly?
How wilfully thick can some brilliant people be?
Markets haven't actually moved much. 2-3% below recent all time highs. I suspect the majority view is that the tariffs wont be in place for long, or we should have seen a bigger reaction.
It is quite muted. I guess the idea is the tariffs will go when Trump gets something he can present as a 'win'. I don't like this. It's not only appeasement it sets up a vicious circle. If he gets a 'win' it rewards naked aggression (cf Putin and Ukraine), he's puffed up to do more similar shit, his popularity at home is supported. My preference, painful and messy as it might be, is for him to be confronted and handed a 'loss'.
The one thing I suspect will limit Trump is the stock market. Mostly he wants it to be BIGLY HIGH, probably the greatest ever. But also Musk and the broligarchy measure their own status by it too and won't want to see lower numbers on their screens.
So too much disruption will lead to a draw back on the tariffs front, probably within a year.
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom
East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop
It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens
It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...
Better than Wick, mind you
I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.
I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom
East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop
It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens
It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...
Better than Wick, mind you
Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft
Rome is at the top of the second tier
Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon
But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul
Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind
Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital
"Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.
Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
We kinda moved on to cities as cities, their world status
But even as a top city destination, Berlin doesn't cut it
What are the ten must see cities in Europe?
London Paris Rome Barcelona Athens Vienna Venice Istanbul Moscow St Petersburg
Sorry, Berlin doesn't make it
It's in the next ten, isn't it?
Prague Amsterdam Madrid Naples Lisbon Dublin Berlin Kyiv Edinburgh Florence
If Tbilisi is allowed I'd swap it for Dublin
Thirty years ago I would have agreed abut Barcelona, but these days it is a very pale shadow of what it was. There are at least a dozen more interesting cities to visit in Spain::
Madrid Valencia Seville Grenada Bilbao San Sebastian Salamanca Leon Zamora Toledo La Corunna Cadiz
I confess I haven't been to Barcelona since pre Covid, maybe even a decade
Is it really that crap now? Over tourism? Migration? Airbnbs? What? what's happened to it?
It must be pretty sad if it's now below Bilbao and Cadiz, which are interesting towns but in the past nowhere near Barca
Massive, ridiculous over-tourism combined with three decades of inward looking, narrow-minded, exclusionary Catalan nationalism. It's nothing like the city it was. The dynamism, the joy, the snark and the life have been entirely sucked out of it. It's such a huge shame. Bilbao is an ugly place but is lived in and it is dynamic. It has an authenticity that a city needs and Barcelona has thrown away.
Partly, agree with you re Barcelona.
But surprised you find Bilbao "ugly". Maybe, you're thinking of thirty years ago and industrial decay?
The suburbs snake up the ravines overlooking the centre; and the night is cobbled with light along the river. Many sound surviving under-stated churches, Indiano mansions, museums.
Btw Bilbao receives many tourist visits; mega cruises debouch thousands of Brits and others at the port in Getxo.
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
"Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it." That very much reflects my view.
Having said, that, I'd retire tomorrow if I could afford to. I find my job interesting. I don't find it stressful. And I enjoy the company of my colleagues. I'm very lucky. But there are still dozens of things I'd find more pleasant or productive to do if I didn't have to spend my time earning money to live. And I don't think I'm unusual in this. I was out with some friends at the weekend in the 'coming up 50' age bracket, most of whom have made more optimal life choices than me for their long-term financial well-being, and I was quite taken aback by the number who plan to retire in the next few years.
Possibly because there is an industry that is intent on convincing people that absolute retirement is a better option. Most of those pleasant or productive things can be achieved more affordably if people in an older age bracket work part time rather than no-time.
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.
I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.
There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
You’ve got to admire the principled attitude towards the Führerbunker, completely eradicating what would almost certainly be the most visited museum in the world. As it is it must be the world’s most visited car park. I see Berlin as a tangible, living fable: an aspiring imperial capital until it was shattered by 1918, the vital, exhilarating cultural experiment of Weimar shattered by the Nazis, the dark surrender to the worst of human nature ending in a shattered, divided city. It’s Homeric and puts Berlin right up there in terms of world significance.
I read Anthony Beevor's BERLIN on my first visit to Berlin
Fuck me, quite an experience. Reading of those intense horrors in the final days, then you look up and see the streets and parks described
Much better than any of his other books, although Stalingrad gets an honourable mention.
In his Arnhem he actually gets a few things wrong, which disappointed me.
He and his wife live in Pett Bottom. You can see their house from my vineyard. He’s on the local WhatsApp group and occasionally posts (usually about things like fallen trees or objecting to planning applications.)
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
From seeing various family members retire - I would recommend tapering off with consultancy/part time working. If the work if appropriate for that and you don't massively hate it.
That's what I did. Not planned (nothing with my 'career' ever was) but it's how it worked out. And yes, it's probably a good approach. Working full time for decades and then - bam - suddenly it's all over, this seems a bit suboptimal and outdated.
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Not sustainable as just ensures everytime they are on tv that is all they will be asked, modern interviewers love nothing better than a politician unwilling to answer. They seem to have the comms in hand with Starmer, Lammy and Mandelson willing cucks to avoid upsetting the toddler bully. Hopefully they are privately pivoting to much stronger defence and trade links with the rest of the modern world. Combined that may sadly be about as good as we can do.
Media interviews with politicians are mostly a boring waste of time and there are far too many of them. What the media, both trad and newstyle, does best is genuinely expert comment and analysis. And the straight hard reporting of facts, not what someone in government has said.
Instead of unilluminating non-anwering interviews, which should be a very occasional art form, the well resourced news media like the BBC should focus on researching, critiqueing and communicating what government is actually doing and not doing (How is the northern powerhouse getting on? Railway from Liverpool to Hull? Progress? How is development in social housing going?) through parliament, ministerial decision, committees, reports and so on.
They don’t have enough people with the skills to do that, or the will.
"Markets are retreating sharply today because investors had not expected a robust response from the countries hit by new US tariffs."
What did they expect exactly?
How wilfully thick can some brilliant people be?
Markets haven't actually moved much. 2-3% below recent all time highs. I suspect the majority view is that the tariffs wont be in place for long, or we should have seen a bigger reaction.
It is quite muted. I guess the idea is the tariffs will go when Trump gets something he can present as a 'win'. I don't like this. It's not only appeasement it sets up a vicious circle. If he gets a 'win' it rewards naked aggression (cf Putin and Ukraine), he's puffed up to do more similar shit, his popularity at home is supported. My preference, painful and messy as it might be, is for him to be confronted and handed a 'loss'.
The one thing I suspect will limit Trump is the stock market. Mostly he wants it to be BIGLY HIGH, probably the greatest ever. But also Musk and the broligarchy measure their own status by it too and won't want to see lower numbers on their screens.
So too much disruption will lead to a draw back on the tariffs front, probably within a year.
Depends how much they have made shorting Tump's disasters...
That strategy would be looking pretty damned profitable so far.
There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.
Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =
Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.
Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.
“What we're seeing is unprecedented in that you have these actors who are not really public officials gaining access to the most sensitive data in government,” says Don Moynihan, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan. “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
Congress does have powers to intervene. The GOP are simply choosing not to exercise them.
Similarly on tariffs: Congress has the power to immediately overturn tariffs imposed by the executive on "national security" grounds, if they so choose.
Trump is doing so many things at the same time it would be umpossible to block everything and I think that’s the point here
They aren't even trying is the point.
To be fair, an awful lot of this is being sprung on the world at weekends, when the normal response mechanisms don't really work. The interesting thing is what gets slowed or reversed during the week to come.
When a burglar breaks into somewhere they're not allowed to go, it's a crime. What is it when one of Musk's Dogey Interns does it?
Seems to me they have zero sense of consequences. Is Elon Musk planning to be on his way to Mars by the time of the next election? Or is he comfortable with spending the rest of his life in gaol? What about all their minions? US politics had already become far too ready to resort to lawfare and this is adding fuel to the fire.
Good morning, everyone.
And to you.
It's a curious pattern of techbro politics- we saw the same when Cummings tried it here. The assumption that the game ends after your brilliant move, and that the other player(s) don't get to respond.
It was not politics that stopped Dominic Cummings; it was asking Boris to choose between his lover and his tech nerd, and that decision would only ever go one way.
"Markets are retreating sharply today because investors had not expected a robust response from the countries hit by new US tariffs."
What did they expect exactly?
How wilfully thick can some brilliant people be?
Markets haven't actually moved much. 2-3% below recent all time highs. I suspect the majority view is that the tariffs wont be in place for long, or we should have seen a bigger reaction.
It is quite muted. I guess the idea is the tariffs will go when Trump gets something he can present as a 'win'. I don't like this. It's not only appeasement it sets up a vicious circle. If he gets a 'win' it rewards naked aggression (cf Putin and Ukraine), he's puffed up to do more similar shit, his popularity at home is supported. My preference, painful and messy as it might be, is for him to be confronted and handed a 'loss'.
It would be extremely interesting to find that nations were more willing to confront an economic aggressor than a military aggressor.
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Fwiw if Starmer were to choose Trump over Europe that would be my party membership on the log burner next time I light it.
"Markets are retreating sharply today because investors had not expected a robust response from the countries hit by new US tariffs."
What did they expect exactly?
How wilfully thick can some brilliant people be?
Markets haven't actually moved much. 2-3% below recent all time highs. I suspect the majority view is that the tariffs wont be in place for long, or we should have seen a bigger reaction.
It is quite muted. I guess the idea is the tariffs will go when Trump gets something he can present as a 'win'. I don't like this. It's not only appeasement it sets up a vicious circle. If he gets a 'win' it rewards naked aggression (cf Putin and Ukraine), he's puffed up to do more similar shit, his popularity at home is supported. My preference, painful and messy as it might be, is for him to be confronted and handed a 'loss'.
The one thing I suspect will limit Trump is the stock market. Mostly he wants it to be BIGLY HIGH, probably the greatest ever. But also Musk and the broligarchy measure their own status by it too and won't want to see lower numbers on their screens.
So too much disruption will lead to a draw back on the tariffs front, probably within a year.
Depends how much they have made shorting Tump's disasters...
That strategy would be looking pretty damned profitable so far.
The stock markets are within a couple of % of all time highs.....
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
From seeing various family members retire - I would recommend tapering off with consultancy/part time working. If the work if appropriate for that and you don't massively hate it.
There also needs to be a way to allow the wider workforce to ease off gradually, as long as it is affordable.
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom
East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop
It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens
It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...
Better than Wick, mind you
I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.
I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom
East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop
It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens
It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...
Better than Wick, mind you
Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft
Rome is at the top of the second tier
Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon
But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul
Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind
Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital
"Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.
Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
We kinda moved on to cities as cities, their world status
But even as a top city destination, Berlin doesn't cut it
What are the ten must see cities in Europe?
London Paris Rome Barcelona Athens Vienna Venice Istanbul Moscow St Petersburg
Sorry, Berlin doesn't make it
It's in the next ten, isn't it?
Prague Amsterdam Madrid Naples Lisbon Dublin Berlin Kyiv Edinburgh Florence
If Tbilisi is allowed I'd swap it for Dublin
Thirty years ago I would have agreed abut Barcelona, but these days it is a very pale shadow of what it was. There are at least a dozen more interesting cities to visit in Spain::
Madrid Valencia Seville Grenada Bilbao San Sebastian Salamanca Leon Zamora Toledo La Corunna Cadiz
I confess I haven't been to Barcelona since pre Covid, maybe even a decade
Is it really that crap now? Over tourism? Migration? Airbnbs? What? what's happened to it?
It must be pretty sad if it's now below Bilbao and Cadiz, which are interesting towns but in the past nowhere near Barca
Massive, ridiculous over-tourism combined with three decades of inward looking, narrow-minded, exclusionary Catalan nationalism. It's nothing like the city it was. The dynamism, the joy, the snark and the life have been entirely sucked out of it. It's such a huge shame. Bilbao is an ugly place but is lived in and it is dynamic. It has an authenticity that a city needs and Barcelona has thrown away.
Eeesh. That's quite depressing, Barcelona at its best was BRILLIANT
It has it all, location, culture, art, history - glorious architecture - Gaudi, the Gothic quarter, the Eixample - plus great food and splendid weather
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
So you think Starmer will side with Europe?
He will side with neither. He won’t get a trade deal with Trump and wouldn’t get it past Labour MPs anyway.
However he doesn’t want the UK to have the level of tariffs Trump will impose on EU imports either
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
That is most unfair, he sometimes does an alternate analysis in terms of roundheads and cavaliers.
OK given that it's a lazy, sunny Monday afternoon and I am just waiting for gin o'clock with a mate
Here's the OFFICIAL LEON LIST of the top ten THINGS to see in ALL THE WORLD
1. Gobekli Tepe and the Tas Tepeler 2. The City of London 3. Angkor Wat 4. Paris 5. Venice 6. The Antartcic Peninsula 7. The Old City of Jerusalem and the abutting Valley of the Shadow of Death 8. The National Parks of south Utah 9. Kyoto 10. The Solovetsky Islands in the White Sea of North Russia
@leon as someone wanting to plan more trips and not impressed with some I have done can you give reasons for some of your picks. Ignore 2,4,5.
Having visited Death Valley last year and being impressed, why Utah ahead of Death Valley. What is special about it?
PS just looked at some pictures of Utah - interesting.
Utah is a very lovely place.
I follow this guy on YouTube, he has one of the best jobs in the world. He’s a breakdown truck driver in and around the national parks in Utah. Spends his days pulling tourists out of the sand and rescuing dead off-road vehicles from the middle of nowhere. Epic backdrops to most of his videos, which explains why he has nearly 2m subscribers. http://www.youtube.com/@MattsOffRoadRecovery
One of our favourite memories is of Lake Louise, in Western Canada. We were in a hotel room overlooking the lake and I woke early, and looked out of the window. The lake was absolutely still, and the sun had just risen enough to make the whole scene look magical. One of the few times I've woken Mrs C early in the morning, and about the only time she really appreciated me doing so!
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
Its Post-WWII history is still fresh - often uncomfortably so e.g. the Stasi prison at Hohenschönhausen.
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
Hardly. It’s a signal we don’t matter.
Avoiding trade tariffs to our biggest market would be a huge plus
Our exports to the EU are bigger than the US. They are 3x higher for goods - the most likely to be hit by tariffs.
We are not going to have tariffs from the EU, so being able to avoid them from the US is a win, not least for Scots whisky
OK given that it's a lazy, sunny Monday afternoon and I am just waiting for gin o'clock with a mate
Here's the OFFICIAL LEON LIST of the top ten THINGS to see in ALL THE WORLD
1. Gobekli Tepe and the Tas Tepeler 2. The City of London 3. Angkor Wat 4. Paris 5. Venice 6. The Antartcic Peninsula 7. The Old City of Jerusalem and the abutting Valley of the Shadow of Death 8. The National Parks of south Utah 9. Kyoto 10. The Solovetsky Islands in the White Sea of North Russia
Outside of London, Paris and Venice I haven't seen any of those.
Out of places I've been to, I'd probably put Rome, Annapurna base camp and the Galapagos Islands above all 3 of those.
Personally I would stick Edinburgh in the top 10. Arriving in Waverley is possibly the best introduction to any city.
Top ten European cities?
I disagree, but it is arguable
In the top ten THINGS TO SEE IN THE WORLD ? - no no no
Oh good grief, top ten/twelve European cities only, not global destinations. On the latter surprised pyramids do not feature.
Because the Tas Tepeler and Angkor Wat are genuinely more impressive than the pyramids - Angkor Wat is more sublime, beautiful, dreamy and even more impressive in scale; Gobekli and the Tas Tepeler way more important as archaeology, world-altering history, mind-blowing theories, and they have such stupendous Noom
And I felt two pre-modern monuments was enough
Pyramids are in the 2nd ten, also the ruins of Luxor and environs
Edinburgh needs to DEMOLISH THE POO BUILDING if it wants a tilt at a top ten spot
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
Well it is post Brexit reality. Many long time Conservative voters who were Remainers are now LD and many long time Labour and Conservative voters who were hard core Leavers are now Reform
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
Hardly. It’s a signal we don’t matter.
Avoiding trade tariffs to our biggest market would be a huge plus
Our exports to the EU are bigger than the US. They are 3x higher for goods - the most likely to be hit by tariffs.
We are not going to have tariffs from the EU, so being able to avoid them from the US is a win, not least for Scots whisky
I don’t think there has ever been a trade war where a significant economy has avoided having to pick a side
There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.
Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =
Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.
Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.
“What we're seeing is unprecedented in that you have these actors who are not really public officials gaining access to the most sensitive data in government,” says Don Moynihan, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan. “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
Congress does have powers to intervene. The GOP are simply choosing not to exercise them.
Similarly on tariffs: Congress has the power to immediately overturn tariffs imposed by the executive on "national security" grounds, if they so choose.
Trump is doing so many things at the same time it would be umpossible to block everything and I think that’s the point here
They aren't even trying is the point.
To be fair, an awful lot of this is being sprung on the world at weekends, when the normal response mechanisms don't really work. The interesting thing is what gets slowed or reversed during the week to come.
When a burglar breaks into somewhere they're not allowed to go, it's a crime. What is it when one of Musk's Dogey Interns does it?
Seems to me they have zero sense of consequences. Is Elon Musk planning to be on his way to Mars by the time of the next election? Or is he comfortable with spending the rest of his life in gaol? What about all their minions? US politics had already become far too ready to resort to lawfare and this is adding fuel to the fire.
Good morning, everyone.
And to you.
It's a curious pattern of techbro politics- we saw the same when Cummings tried it here. The assumption that the game ends after your brilliant move, and that the other player(s) don't get to respond.
⚠️ BREAKING NEWS ⚠️ President Donald Trump is trying to make YORKSHIRE the 51st state! 🇺🇲
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with 'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
I commute in to Yorkshire from Nottinghamshire. Guess there goes my right to work in Yorkshire.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
The stuff about opinion polls is childish and irrelevant. The overwhelming majority have not read the Bill and do not understand any of the medical or legal issues. It is obvious from the debate in here that many of those commenting have not read the BillThat is why proper scrutiny is needed. It is what was promised. This Bill is not getting it.
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then 2. So many witnesses from Australia
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
OK given that it's a lazy, sunny Monday afternoon and I am just waiting for gin o'clock with a mate
Here's the OFFICIAL LEON LIST of the top ten THINGS to see in ALL THE WORLD
1. Gobekli Tepe and the Tas Tepeler 2. The City of London 3. Angkor Wat 4. Paris 5. Venice 6. The Antartcic Peninsula 7. The Old City of Jerusalem and the abutting Valley of the Shadow of Death 8. The National Parks of south Utah 9. Kyoto 10. The Solovetsky Islands in the White Sea of North Russia
@leon as someone wanting to plan more trips and not impressed with some I have done can you give reasons for some of your picks. Ignore 2,4,5.
Having visited Death Valley last year and being impressed, why Utah ahead of Death Valley. What is special about it?
PS just looked at some pictures of Utah - interesting.
Good morning fellow pb-ers! Quite promising, weather-wise this morning. Here, anyway.
On topic, I'v been to Angkor Wat. One needs to get there early in the morning, although the tourist crowds are wising up to that. And be there at sunset.
Not going to Jerusalem, and it's 'neighbour' Petra are among my regrets, along with never seeing Antartica. Or Patagonia!
Jerusalem-adjacent West Bank is better. Too many worried locals in Jerusalem - and the contrast between the two is startling.
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
From seeing various family members retire - I would recommend tapering off with consultancy/part time working. If the work if appropriate for that and you don't massively hate it.
Indeed, it does depend on someone finding work one finds rewarding in some way. I largely like my work, so I am lucky. It is partly that perspective (and in spite of having a number of hobbies) that makes me think retirement would be ghastly by comparison. Also a number of my hobbies are hideously expensive so they need to be paid for!
I retired at 65 and continued our overseas travel with an expedition to Antartica as our retirement present (it was expensive) followed by several trips to Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, Canada and other 'bucket list' destinations
All went well until I was approaching 80 when I experienced sudden and unexpected health issues that ended international travel
My advice to anyone approaching retirement is not to postpone anything you hope to do and enjoy, just do it
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?
Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom
East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop
It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens
It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...
Better than Wick, mind you
Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
You need to visit the Soviet War Memorial in Berlin whilst it is still there.
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
Hardly. It’s a signal we don’t matter.
Avoiding trade tariffs to our biggest market would be a huge plus
Our exports to the EU are bigger than the US. They are 3x higher for goods - the most likely to be hit by tariffs.
We are not going to have tariffs from the EU, so being able to avoid them from the US is a win, not least for Scots whisky
I don’t think there has ever been a trade war where a significant economy has avoided having to pick a side
If you get hit by tariffs you retaliate, otherwise in a trade war you keep out
Oh yes. Wasn't he the one who went to Malmö at the behest of the anti-semitic InfoWars bloke and reported back that it was a no-go hellhole controlled by Muslims? One or two PBers proclaimed him a brave and intrepid hero at the time.
Sky business report referring to Trump’s comments last night on applying tariffs on the EU and UK said it is likely UK will avoid the tariffs as we are not in the EU
Is this a Brexit benefit if we avoid Trump’s tariffs?
I suspect this is more Sir Keir playing a blinder. In fact, if we had a more Brexity PM, say Boris, we'd probably be more vulnerable to Trump's whims as the room for manoeuvre would be drastically reduced, what with the antipathy from the EU and pressure from the transatlantic Right. Sir Keir stands out as a politician who has forged his own destiny and is beholden to no son of man.
Hahahahahah.
Though I will stop laughing if Starmer cancels the Chagos deal to avoid tariffs. But only if he planned it in advance.
An insult to hard working HR Managers lol. Actually probably some truth in this. Some senior HR professionals know about leadership. Many do not. It would appear that Keir from HR is in the latter category
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
Well it is post Brexit reality. Many long time Conservative voters who were Remainers are now LD and many long time Labour and Conservative voters who were hard core Leavers are now Reform
I am a conservative remain voter and remain a conservative
Indeed by your definition you are a conservative voter who also voted remain, so no doubt you now see yourself as a Lib Dem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
The stuff about opinion polls is childish and irrelevant. The overwhelming majority have not read the Bill and do not understand any of the medical or legal issues. It is obvious from the debate in here that many of those commenting have not read the BillThat is why proper scrutiny is needed. It is what was promised. This Bill is not getting it.
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then 2. So many witnesses from Australia
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
"The morality of it all" is very much a subjective emotional response which will not be altered by facts or evidence.
See David Hume on emotion and rationality. You've made your mind up on gut feel, and you're now searching for evidence to justify it. Haven't you?
⚠️ BREAKING NEWS ⚠️ President Donald Trump is trying to make YORKSHIRE the 51st state! 🇺🇲
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with 'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
I commute in to Yorkshire from Nottinghamshire. Guess there goes my right to work in Yorkshire.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
Sedbergh, Mickleton, Saddleworth, Cleveland, Slaidburn, and Barnoldswick were all part of Yorkshire!
Mod's, I'm happy with people posting one pic a day, should they so wish, but could we please have some control on the size! Those this morning are at least 4 times too big!
An insult to hard working HR Managers lol. Actually probably some truth in this. Some senior HR professionals know about leadership. Many do not. It would appear that Keir from HR is in the latter category
⚠️ BREAKING NEWS ⚠️ President Donald Trump is trying to make YORKSHIRE the 51st state! 🇺🇲
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with 'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
I commute in to Yorkshire from Nottinghamshire. Guess there goes my right to work in Yorkshire.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
Which is an absurd equivalence. There are real, actual issues with “assisted dying”. Which have been seen and described in law courts.
Simply ignoring them will not make the bill better.
I've called for a royal commission to give assisted dying proper consideration, and if not prefer a government bill to a private members bill. However, I don't think the list itself clearly shows it is hugely unbalanced, it is a very subjective matter to get the balance right and different people will hold different, passionate opinions on the balance of it.
⚠️ BREAKING NEWS ⚠️ President Donald Trump is trying to make YORKSHIRE the 51st state! 🇺🇲
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with 'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
I commute in to Yorkshire from Nottinghamshire. Guess there goes my right to work in Yorkshire.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
It’s all going a bit Yugoslavia in your county, you should join Yorkshire.
A Derbyshire borough switching counties as part of a local government shake-up is not a "viable option", a council leader says.
Erewash, which covers the towns of Long Eaton and Ilkeston, sits on the border with Nottinghamshire.
Leaders in the borough said earlier last week that they were considering joining it with Nottinghamshire as part of central government plans to reorganise local authorities.
Sam Smith, the leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said, however, while he was not personally opposed to the idea, he did not think the government would allow it.
⚠️ BREAKING NEWS ⚠️ President Donald Trump is trying to make YORKSHIRE the 51st state! 🇺🇲
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with 'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
I commute in to Yorkshire from Nottinghamshire. Guess there goes my right to work in Yorkshire.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
Well it is post Brexit reality. Many long time Conservative voters who were Remainers are now LD and many long time Labour and Conservative voters who were hard core Leavers are now Reform
I am a conservative remain voter and remain a conservative
Indeed by your definition you are a conservative voter who also voted remain, so no doubt you now see yourself as a Lib Dem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe he sees himself as the rest of us see him. A deranged idiot with a Boris Johnson daddy complex.
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
I think there are limits, and anti-vaxers / climate change deniers are on the far side of the 'cordon sanitaire' for example.
On the ADB, I suggest that advocates of involuntary euthanasia or Aktion T4 do not imo have a place giving evidence to the committee.
Assisted dying has moral and humanitarian questions rather than just straightforward scientific ones, so isn't really comparable to vaccination or climate change.
Mod's, I'm happy with people posting one pic a day, should they so wish, but could we please have some control on the size! Those this morning are at least 4 times too big!
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
Well it is post Brexit reality. Many long time Conservative voters who were Remainers are now LD and many long time Labour and Conservative voters who were hard core Leavers are now Reform
I am a conservative remain voter and remain a conservative
Indeed by your definition you are a conservative voter who also voted remain, so no doubt you now see yourself as a Lib Dem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I said many NOT all.
However the fact current polls have Labour polling at Foot 1983 levels and the Conservatives still at Sunak 2024 levels is mainly due to some Remainers going LD and hardcore Leavers going Reform
Luke Tryl @LukeTryl · 1h 🧵Trying to predict the next General Election is a fools game - in the last Parliament the Tories ranged as high as 55% as low as 18%, with the electorate so volatile and the parties so split it's not impossible to imagine any of Starmer, Badenoch or Farage as PM come 2029.
At the moment a lot of Democrat voters are pissed off with the Democrat party because they screwed up so badly allowing Trump to win. A feeling I share.
If the figures haven't changed in 6 months then they are in trouble.
I think that the Democrats are an institution. The people leading them, less so.
Given that Trump is making a spectacular mess, I get the impression that people are standing back, rather than wasting time trying to (futilely) stop him.
The Dem conference at the weekend looked like a parody of itself written by Republicans. It started with an apology to the First Nations for stealing their land, then went on a festival of wokeness and LGBTQIA++ that doubled down on all the reasons they lost the election in the first place.
I mean, you can’t complain that politicians do not have principles then also complain when they don’t throw away their principles at the first sign of electoral failure.
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
The stuff about opinion polls is childish and irrelevant. The overwhelming majority have not read the Bill and do not understand any of the medical or legal issues. It is obvious from the debate in here that many of those commenting have not read the BillThat is why proper scrutiny is needed. It is what was promised. This Bill is not getting it.
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then 2. So many witnesses from Australia
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
"The morality of it all" is very much a subjective emotional response which will not be altered by facts or evidence.
See David Hume on emotion and rationality. You've made your mind up on gut feel, and you're now searching for evidence to justify it. Haven't you?
Morality is a complex field. As is assisted dying.
Anyone claiming that they own the moral high ground is talking nonsense. There are centuries of philosophical argument on this stuff to look at.
Which is why Mary Warnock produced such good reports. Which created the foundations for legislation that has stood the test of time. Because she investigated the interaction between moral philosophy and various test/edge cases.
An insult to hard working HR Managers lol. Actually probably some truth in this. Some senior HR professionals know about leadership. Many do not. It would appear that Keir from HR is in the latter category
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
The stuff about opinion polls is childish and irrelevant. The overwhelming majority have not read the Bill and do not understand any of the medical or legal issues. It is obvious from the debate in here that many of those commenting have not read the BillThat is why proper scrutiny is needed. It is what was promised. This Bill is not getting it.
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then 2. So many witnesses from Australia
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
The issue is about many things: how you weigh up those things is very much up to an individual.
For me, not making dying people suffer unnecessarily is a massively important thing. I want less suffering in the world.
And also IMV, palliative care is *far* from perfect in reducing suffering.
Possibly in Tier 53? Alongside Enniscorthy and Ozorkow, but there's a lot of dispute amongst tier-ologists as to whether it should be above or below Hyvinkaa, the self-styled "Newent of the East"
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
How much of that issue though is retirement due to lack of options? For example I turn 58 this year....finding another job should I get laid off doing what I currently do is going to be a damn sight harder than it was when I was in my forties.
Many older people find themselves effectively being managed out of the workplace and find their opportunities for new employment heavily curtailed. Partly due in many jobs as over the hill/ not up to learning new stuff. Partly due to worries about their likely health and fitness...will they take more time off sick than a younger worker. Partly due to cost, an older person is more likely to be on a better salary than a new starter fresh from uni.
It is all well and good suggesting people work longer but for many that option is likely to not be available.
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
How much of that issue though is retirement due to lack of options? For example I turn 58 this year....finding another job should I get laid off doing what I currently do is going to be a damn sight harder than it was when I was in my forties.
Many older people find themselves effectively being managed out of the workplace and find their opportunities for new employment heavily curtailed. Partly due in many jobs as over the hill/ not up to learning new stuff. Partly due to worries about their likely health and fitness...will they take more time off sick than a younger worker. Partly due to cost, an older person is more likely to be on a better salary than a new starter fresh from uni.
It is all well and good suggesting people work longer but for many that option is likely to not be available.
Why? He is not head of government, a trade war between the US and Canadian governments is not for the King to get involved with
Yes but a crazy president in an adjacent jurisdiction laying territorial claim (51st state bollocks) is something he should comment on and would probably like to, though I suspect Kier from HR maybe preventing him.
At the moment a lot of Democrat voters are pissed off with the Democrat party because they screwed up so badly allowing Trump to win. A feeling I share.
If the figures haven't changed in 6 months then they are in trouble.
I think that the Democrats are an institution. The people leading them, less so.
Given that Trump is making a spectacular mess, I get the impression that people are standing back, rather than wasting time trying to (futilely) stop him.
The Dem conference at the weekend looked like a parody of itself written by Republicans. It started with an apology to the First Nations for stealing their land, then went on a festival of wokeness and LGBTQIA++ that doubled down on all the reasons they lost the election in the first place.
I mean, you can’t complain that politicians do not have principles then also complain when they don’t throw away their principles at the first sign of electoral failure.
It doesn’t really matter anyway, the midterms next year will be a referendum on the state of the economy under Trump and the impact of his tariffs not the Democrats.
The 2028 US Democratic presidential nominee probably wasn’t even at the conference at the weekend
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
How much of that issue though is retirement due to lack of options? For example I turn 58 this year....finding another job should I get laid off doing what I currently do is going to be a damn sight harder than it was when I was in my forties.
Many older people find themselves effectively being managed out of the workplace and find their opportunities for new employment heavily curtailed. Partly due in many jobs as over the hill/ not up to learning new stuff. Partly due to worries about their likely health and fitness...will they take more time off sick than a younger worker. Partly due to cost, an older person is more likely to be on a better salary than a new starter fresh from uni.
It is all well and good suggesting people work longer but for many that option is likely to not be available.
Agreed. It requires a collective change of mindset. You are roughly same age as me. I certainly don't believe I will have nothing else to offer in 7 years time, let alone in just a couple. There are some people who think it is aspirational to retire and do nothing at 50 ffs!
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
The stuff about opinion polls is childish and irrelevant. The overwhelming majority have not read the Bill and do not understand any of the medical or legal issues. It is obvious from the debate in here that many of those commenting have not read the BillThat is why proper scrutiny is needed. It is what was promised. This Bill is not getting it.
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then 2. So many witnesses from Australia
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
The issue is about many things: how you weigh up those things is very much up to an individual.
For me, not making dying people suffer unnecessarily is a massively important thing. I want less suffering in the world.
And also IMV, palliative care is *far* from perfect in reducing suffering.
At least palliative care tries to reduce suffering, while letting nature take it's course. Assisted dying interferes. And no, I'm not taking sides; I've seen dying which was assisted and which wasn't. My mind isn't made up.
Conservative sources are keen to deny talk of a crisis meeting today over the party’s sluggish performance in the polls (the party is behind in seven opinion polls). A source in Kemi Badenoch’s office tells me: "It's completely and utterly untrue. There is no meeting. It's nonsense."
Why? He is not head of government, a trade war between the US and Canadian governments is not for the King to get involved with
Yes but a crazy president in an adjacent jurisdiction laying territorial claim (51st state bollocks) is something he should comment on and would probably like to, though I suspect Kier from HR maybe preventing him.
Given the measured response from the Canadian Government, I would suspect that they are telling everyone else “thanks but no thanks” on impromptu help.
In the case of the King, he would (should) be obliged to follow the advice of the Canadian Government on speaking out.
I think that Trudeau is trying to send a single, focused message - reasonable yet firm.
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
The stuff about opinion polls is childish and irrelevant. The overwhelming majority have not read the Bill and do not understand any of the medical or legal issues. It is obvious from the debate in here that many of those commenting have not read the BillThat is why proper scrutiny is needed. It is what was promised. This Bill is not getting it.
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then 2. So many witnesses from Australia
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
Personally, I think such a panel should be a full spread of views rather than done like a vote or poll.
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Should a climate change commission be 50% climate change deniers to give all views equal access? Or similar with anti-vaxxers?
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
"The morality of it all" is very much a subjective emotional response which will not be altered by facts or evidence.
See David Hume on emotion and rationality. You've made your mind up on gut feel, and you're now searching for evidence to justify it. Haven't you?
Morality is a complex field. As is assisted dying.
Anyone claiming that they own the moral high ground is talking nonsense. There are centuries of philosophical argument on this stuff to look at.
Which is why Mary Warnock produced such good reports. Which created the foundations for legislation that has stood the test of time. Because she investigated the interaction between moral philosophy and various test/edge cases.
" "Anyone claiming that they own the moral high ground is talking nonsense" I totally agree with that.
At the moment a lot of Democrat voters are pissed off with the Democrat party because they screwed up so badly allowing Trump to win. A feeling I share.
If the figures haven't changed in 6 months then they are in trouble.
I think that the Democrats are an institution. The people leading them, less so.
Given that Trump is making a spectacular mess, I get the impression that people are standing back, rather than wasting time trying to (futilely) stop him.
The Dem conference at the weekend looked like a parody of itself written by Republicans. It started with an apology to the First Nations for stealing their land, then went on a festival of wokeness and LGBTQIA++ that doubled down on all the reasons they lost the election in the first place.
I mean, you can’t complain that politicians do not have principles then also complain when they don’t throw away their principles at the first sign of electoral failure.
The Dems need to find leaders who look comfortable in the company of ordinary working people and talk about what they care about. Bill Clinton and Joe Biden had that, and won. Hillary and Kamala not at all. Unless they recognise that reality the Dems are done for.
(Barack Obama truly was a special case - a one-off in his ability to communicate at a different level - like JFK. So not a useful template.)
It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc
But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho
Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
Went there in 2008 and one of my favourite places was the massive Soviet memorial on the eastern fringes.
On Trump and the UK. My advice to Starmer is that he should issue an edict to his colleagues that there will be no public comment either through the media or on Twitter etc. by the government or its agencies on the threat of tariffs or any other Trumpian matter. Make it clear that the government's response to Trump shall be conducted entirely through private diplomatic channels.
In other words, don't give Trump the oxygen of publicity, or any opportunity to lash out at anything said.
Starmer is playing Trump pretty well so far. But I suspect we can’t hide under the radar forever, and there will come a crunch point.
There will and it is an extremely dangerous one for Starmer. If he chooses the US over the EU when the time comes, as it will, he will almost certainly face a major Parliamentary rebellion and a challenge to his leadership, which he would probably lose.
Making either choice would be foolish and Starmer needs to stay neutral no matter how difficult
That's not how Trump works. He will force a choice.
Starmer siding with Trump loses his party, siding with the EU his party loses to Reform
No most Labour voters are Remainers again now, most of the red wall seats Labour won are already going to Reform anyway
You’re still fighting the last war, considering everything in terms of remainers and leavers.
Well it is post Brexit reality. Many long time Conservative voters who were Remainers are now LD and many long time Labour and Conservative voters who were hard core Leavers are now Reform
I am a conservative remain voter and remain a conservative
Indeed by your definition you are a conservative voter who also voted remain, so no doubt you now see yourself as a Lib Dem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I said many NOT all.
However the fact current polls have Labour polling at Foot 1983 levels and the Conservatives still at Sunak 2024 levels is mainly due to some Remainers going LD and hardcore Leavers going Reform
It's not a perfect split, but the way people voted in 2016 has a hefty correlation with their voting intention now;
Conservatives are on 15% with remainers, 31% with leavers Labour are on 37% with remainers, 13% with leavers for Lib Dems, the split is 21-7 Reform are on 8-42
Seems silly to pretend that, for a certain type of long-term Conservative voter, Boris, Brexit and all that followed from them was the kind of deal-breaker that is going to take decades to fade into history.
⚠️ BREAKING NEWS ⚠️ President Donald Trump is trying to make YORKSHIRE the 51st state! 🇺🇲
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with 'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
I commute in to Yorkshire from Nottinghamshire. Guess there goes my right to work in Yorkshire.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
Sedbergh, Mickleton, Saddleworth, Cleveland, Slaidburn, and Barnoldswick were all part of Yorkshire!
Hang on.
In the absence of @Anabobazina we need to remember that everywhere up to Wetherby and Harrogate is part of Nottingham.
I think there is a fascinating aspect of that article that supports a belief that I have long held; the idea that encouraging people to retire while they are still more than capable of working is damaging for the economy (and IMO the individuals themselves). By all means, encourage older people to achieve a great work life balance, maybe by working much less hours, but encouraging them to think that it is a life aspiration to do nowt is incredibly dumb.
One way Haldane thinks Reeves could do this is to help older people stay in work for longer. “Ageing is only a problem… if we stick with this model of people rolling into retirement [at a relatively early age],” he said.
“After the age of 50, the rate of employment starts falling rapidly, despite the fact that people are living longer lives than ever.” “Provided we live healthily and productively and we remain skilled, the resolution of this puzzle is to have people remain in the workplace for longer.” “That would deliver a huge benefit to the public purse and to growth. Ageing need not be a problem. It could actually be the opportunity of our lifetimes, if we seize it.” The Government has so far been reluctant to change the existing safety net for pensioners, after a furious backlash to the decision to means-test the winter fuel allowance.
From seeing various family members retire - I would recommend tapering off with consultancy/part time working. If the work if appropriate for that and you don't massively hate it.
Indeed, it does depend on someone finding work one finds rewarding in some way. I largely like my work, so I am lucky. It is partly that perspective (and in spite of having a number of hobbies) that makes me think retirement would be ghastly by comparison. Also a number of my hobbies are hideously expensive so they need to be paid for!
I retired at 65 and continued our overseas travel with an expedition to Antartica as our retirement present (it was expensive) followed by several trips to Australia, New Zealand, Japan, China, Canada and other 'bucket list' destinations
All went well until I was approaching 80 when I experienced sudden and unexpected health issues that ended international travel
My advice to anyone approaching retirement is not to postpone anything you hope to do and enjoy, just do it
Yes, but my point is that you do not have to fully retire to do stuff like that. I am not knocking people that have done it, just asking whether it is a good policy for the health of the nation generally to pension off people who are probably at the height of their professional knowledge. I hope, health allowing, to continue to work as long as people want to pay me.
Depends what you’re up to. Sightseeing don’t go to Berlin. Go to Vienna at Christmas. If you want a good quirky night out Berlin can be a lot of fun. A young city.
Depends on what you consider sightseeing. Walking down the Schönhauser Allee or across the Moltke Bridge and imagining the Sovitet tanks and troops fighting metre-by-meter into the centre qualifies in my book, but then I'm a bit of a military history fan.
Possibly in Tier 53? Alongside Enniscorthy and Ozorkow, but there's a lot of dispute amongst tier-ologists as to whether it should be above or below Hyvinkaa, the self-styled "Newent of the East"
Comments
A pension pot around 500k plus the state pension would give around average wage from normal retirement age onwards. So yes, continue supporting saving to that level, maybe even be more generous. But beyond that and certainly past £1m pension pot the tax payer gets a double whammy of less tax now and the most productive people in the economy choosing to switch off early too.
Tricky psychologically, though. It needs a certain mindset to be happy going from being the one in charge to being the aged guru whose advice will (and often should) be ignored. Would probably also help if the experience of work was less dismal, so that the idea of stopping as soon as you can wasn't so damn attractive.
Shanghai and Seoul are also nearly top tier world cities if not already there
Incidentally, it is worth watching the interview with Trump when he mentions UK being "out of line". I think he meant to say EU out of line and then realised and didn't want to backtrack. A slip of the tongue anyone would make, or maybe a bit of brain fog from a 78 year old?
As I did once upon a time.
I don't think one can now, to be honest, though.
So too much disruption will lead to a draw back on the tariffs front, probably within a year.
(I'm not in a position to judge in detail - @Cyclefree ?)
Update: Kim Leadbeater’s witness list was far more unbalanced than previously reported.
Of those representing a position, 80% were in favour of the bill, 20% against. (MPs voted 55-45 in favour at second reading.)
https://x.com/ddhitchens/status/1885979023668302178
No tarriffs: a signal we don't matter
But surprised you find Bilbao "ugly". Maybe, you're thinking of thirty years ago and industrial decay?
The suburbs snake up the ravines overlooking the centre; and the night is cobbled with light along the river. Many sound surviving under-stated churches, Indiano mansions, museums.
Btw Bilbao receives many tourist visits; mega cruises debouch thousands of Brits and others at the port in Getxo.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886311299518194124
Nothing like due process, is there?
66% of the public support, 16% against a ratio of 4.1, 24 of the panel support, 6 against, a ratio of 4.
Should the panel be balanced in terms of popular support, MP support or 50/50?
That strategy would be looking pretty damned profitable so far.
Or, indeed, freedom of speech.
https://bauhauskooperation.com/knowledge/the-bauhaus/works/architecture/barcelona-pavilion
However he doesn’t want the UK to have the level of tariffs Trump will impose on EU imports either
They are the evidence quarry which is to be mined and refined by the committee.
Out of places I've been to, I'd probably put Rome, Annapurna base camp and the Galapagos Islands above all 3 of those.
If the offer is accepted Trump will sign the following executive orders to get them in motion;
- BUILD A WALL on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border 🧱
- Sean Bean to be Governor
- Immediately deport all southerners ⬇️
- A portion of fish & chips to be capped at £5
- Flat cap wearers and Whippet owners to receive favourable tax cuts
- PG Tips and Typhoo will be hit with a 100% tariff
- Open up the coal mines to become energy independent ⚡️
- 'God's Own County' to be replaced with
'God's Own State'.
Let’s Make Yorkshire Great Again!
Arguably those are different as more science based but the anti-vaxxers and climate change deniers would certainly feel it unbalanced.
Well, this is one of his latest comments:
"After we destroy the Canadian economy their will to resist will erode
We will then march in unopposed and deliver Canada to its rightful place as a territory of the US with no political representation"
https://x.com/Timcast/status/1886203522930078168
Simply ignoring them will not make the bill better.
How will Killamarsh (and NE Derbyshire/Aston) be handled out of interest ? Checks at the border ? Papers needing to be shown at J34 and 33 of the M1 ? A57 blockade ?
Some questions:
1. Why no evidence from Canada? The reason was that its legal system is so different that nothing useful could be gleaned. Disingenuous nonsense. But if so, why then
2. So many witnesses from Australia What a stupid comparison. The issue is about coercion, about the rights of the disabled and the vulnerable, about palliative care, about the morality of it all. Not about whether the science tells us that we can kill people. We know that already.
All went well until I was approaching 80 when I experienced sudden and unexpected health issues that ended international travel
My advice to anyone approaching retirement is not to postpone anything you hope to do and enjoy, just do it
https://www.berliner-unterwelten.de/en/index.html
Though I will stop laughing if Starmer cancels the Chagos deal to avoid tariffs. But only if he planned it in advance.
On the ADB, I suggest that advocates of involuntary euthanasia or Aktion T4 do not imo have a place giving evidence to the committee.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/cooper-defends-starmer-after-book-says-chief-of-staff-called-him-an-hr-manager/ar-AA1yhF9f?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=5d1794119266454be67621f2882eefa6&ei=32
Indeed by your definition you are a conservative voter who also voted remain, so no doubt you now see yourself as a Lib Dem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
See David Hume on emotion and rationality. You've made your mind up on gut feel, and you're now searching for evidence to justify it. Haven't you?
A Derbyshire borough switching counties as part of a local government shake-up is not a "viable option", a council leader says.
Erewash, which covers the towns of Long Eaton and Ilkeston, sits on the border with Nottinghamshire.
Leaders in the borough said earlier last week that they were considering joining it with Nottinghamshire as part of central government plans to reorganise local authorities.
Sam Smith, the leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said, however, while he was not personally opposed to the idea, he did not think the government would allow it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cew5j2d89vjo
However the fact current polls have Labour polling at Foot 1983 levels and the Conservatives still at Sunak 2024 levels is mainly due to some Remainers going LD and hardcore Leavers going Reform
@LukeTryl
·
1h
🧵Trying to predict the next General Election is a fools game - in the last Parliament the Tories ranged as high as 55% as low as 18%, with the electorate so volatile and the parties so split it's not impossible to imagine any of Starmer, Badenoch or Farage as PM come 2029.
https://x.com/LukeTryl
Anyone claiming that they own the moral high ground is talking nonsense. There are centuries of philosophical argument on this stuff to look at.
Which is why Mary Warnock produced such good reports. Which created the foundations for legislation that has stood the test of time. Because she investigated the interaction between moral philosophy and various test/edge cases.
I lay claim to being the(possible) first to calling Johnson Bozo on this site. I'll let people with more time see if they can disprove that one.
For me, not making dying people suffer unnecessarily is a massively important thing. I want less suffering in the world.
And also IMV, palliative care is *far* from perfect in reducing suffering.
Cumbernauld says "hold my beer".
Many older people find themselves effectively being managed out of the workplace and find their opportunities for new employment heavily curtailed. Partly due in many jobs as over the hill/ not up to learning new stuff. Partly due to worries about their likely health and fitness...will they take more time off sick than a younger worker. Partly due to cost, an older person is more likely to be on a better salary than a new starter fresh from uni.
It is all well and good suggesting people work longer but for many that option is likely to not be available.
The 2028 US Democratic presidential nominee probably wasn’t even at the conference at the weekend
And no, I'm not taking sides; I've seen dying which was assisted and which wasn't. My mind isn't made up.
Conservative sources are keen to deny talk of a crisis meeting today over the party’s sluggish performance in the polls (the party is behind in seven opinion polls). A source in Kemi Badenoch’s office tells me: "It's completely and utterly untrue. There is no meeting. It's nonsense."
In the case of the King, he would (should) be obliged to follow the advice of the Canadian Government on speaking out.
I think that Trudeau is trying to send a single, focused message - reasonable yet firm.
New 51% say Brexit has been a failure. 13% say it’s a success….
https://x.com/benatipsos/status/1886373351511196030
"Anyone claiming that they own the moral high ground is talking nonsense"
I totally agree with that.
(Barack Obama truly was a special case - a one-off in his ability to communicate at a different level - like JFK. So not a useful template.)
Conservatives are on 15% with remainers, 31% with leavers
Labour are on 37% with remainers, 13% with leavers
for Lib Dems, the split is 21-7
Reform are on 8-42
https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/VotingIntention_MRP_250127_publish.pdf
Seems silly to pretend that, for a certain type of long-term Conservative voter, Boris, Brexit and all that followed from them was the kind of deal-breaker that is going to take decades to fade into history.
In the absence of @Anabobazina we need to remember that everywhere up to Wetherby and Harrogate is part of Nottingham.