Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The resistible force meets the movable object – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,320
edited February 18 in General
The resistible force meets the movable object – politicalbetting.com

An absolutely brutal @QuinnipiacPoll for Democrats:Republican Party: 43% favorable, 45% unfavorable (-2)Democratic Party: 31% favorable, 57% unfavorable (-26) pic.twitter.com/m0RgPmGWno

Read the full story here

«13456

Comments

  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    edited February 3
    1st. 2nd. (Bloody Foxes)

    But nothing to say. Yet.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    edited February 3
    It's going to be a long 18 months to those mid terms.

  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    At the moment a lot of Democrat voters are pissed off with the Democrat party because they screwed up so badly allowing Trump to win. A feeling I share.

    If the figures haven't changed in 6 months then they are in trouble.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    MattW said:

    1st. 2nd. (Bloody Foxes)

    But nothing to say. Yet.

    No, you were first. :)

    I think government perception in the US - and to a lesser extent the rest of the west - will increasingly be influenced and controlled by the Internet and social media. There's several reasons why Musk and the GOP are attacking 'traditional' media, and control of the narrative is one of them.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 796
    Concerning that he's more popular than last time.
    We:LL have to see whether voters turn on him when the effects of tariffs and cuts start to hit them or whether they doubledown.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    kamski said:

    At the moment a lot of Democrat voters are pissed off with the Democrat party because they screwed up so badly allowing Trump to win. A feeling I share.

    If the figures haven't changed in 6 months then they are in trouble.

    Yes, I don't think that those pissed off with the Dems are pro-Trump, indeed the opposite and want a party that puts up a better fight.

    A bit like my fellow Foxes fans booing our team off the pitch at Everton.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    edited February 3

    MattW said:

    1st. 2nd. (Bloody Foxes)

    But nothing to say. Yet.

    No, you were first. :)

    I think government perception in the US - and to a lesser extent the rest of the west - will increasingly be influenced and controlled by the Internet and social media. There's several reasons why Musk and the GOP are attacking 'traditional' media, and control of the narrative is one of them.
    Bloody comments running in opposite orders on different versions of the site, and the complicated navigation required to get first comment !
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,593
    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1886315431016743171

    REF: 27% (+1)
    LAB: 23% (+1)
    CON: 21% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 10% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 29 Jan
    Chgs. w/ 22 Jan
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,806

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1886315431016743171

    REF: 27% (+1)
    LAB: 23% (+1)
    CON: 21% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 10% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 29 Jan
    Chgs. w/ 22 Jan

    God bless Goodwin. I would love this to be true though - it's certainly the direction of travel.
  • https://x.com/britainelects/status/1886315431016743171

    REF: 27% (+1)
    LAB: 23% (+1)
    CON: 21% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 10% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 29 Jan
    Chgs. w/ 22 Jan

    Britain Elects are four days behind the curve, that poll was posted on PB on Thursday.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,593
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    Musk has just been calling USAID a criminal organisation.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886317363953279401
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It seems these are some of the guys involved:

    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    Musk has just been calling USAID a criminal organisation.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886317363953279401
    Well, it does mostly aid black and brown people, so no surprises there.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1886315431016743171

    REF: 27% (+1)
    LAB: 23% (+1)
    CON: 21% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 10% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 29 Jan
    Chgs. w/ 22 Jan

    Britain Elects are four days behind the curve, that poll was posted on PB on Thursday.
    Surely the failure of Brexit, as Farages signature policy, must have some impact?

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lgzlbnvpdc23
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It's more lawbreaking by Trump & Co aiui.

    DOGE has not been established according to US law, so has no legal authority to carry out the actions attempted.

    https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/advocacy-groups-file-four-lawsuits-against-musk-led-doge
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    a
    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It seems these are some of the guys involved:

    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/
    “What we're seeing is unprecedented in that you have these actors who are not really public officials gaining access to the most sensitive data in government,” says Don Moynihan, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan. “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,688
    The Law is what it always was.
    A polite fiction.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803
    edited February 3
    MattW said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It's more lawbreaking by Trump & Co aiui.

    DOGE has not been established according to US law, so has no legal authority to carry out the actions attempted.

    https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/advocacy-groups-file-four-lawsuits-against-musk-led-doge
    Congress are the check on executive power. If they are not doing their job I guess the system presumes that they are happy with the actions of the President. I can’t see the Supreme Court helping.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,915
    I've woke up this morning to see Trump has moved onto attacking the EU (and UK).

    I don't bet, but I wonder if he'll still be president come the end of the year.

    I wonder how the US markets are going to react come opening time.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    MattW said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It's more lawbreaking by Trump & Co aiui.

    DOGE has not been established according to US law, so has no legal authority to carry out the actions attempted.

    https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/advocacy-groups-file-four-lawsuits-against-musk-led-doge
    Well exactly - @sandpit's 'suggestions' that USAID officials are 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' is a very dishonest way of describing the situation.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,593

    I've woke up this morning to see Trump has moved onto attacking the EU (and UK).

    I don't bet, but I wonder if he'll still be president come the end of the year.

    I wonder how the US markets are going to react come opening time.

    Are you predicting an assassination? Trump has genuine democratic power. He’s not some Liz Truss figure who can be elbowed out by the deep state.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    edited February 3
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,688
    Deep State my arse.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    I've woke up this morning to see Trump has moved onto attacking the EU (and UK).

    I don't bet, but I wonder if he'll still be president come the end of the year.

    I wonder how the US markets are going to react come opening time.

    Are you predicting an assassination? Trump has genuine democratic power. He’s not some Liz Truss figure who can be elbowed out by the deep state.
    The 25th?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    I think this is going to be a classic example of “be careful what you wish for, it may come true”.

    As for Trump’s approval ratings approving that’s not exactly surprising when he is clearly doing things. I mean granted what he’s doing seems to be utterly insane but your average American won’t see the insanity
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981
    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    Musk has just been calling USAID a criminal organisation.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886317363953279401
    Well, it does mostly aid black and brown
    people, so no surprises there.
    That’s incidental - it’s because it’s seen as “charity” with no return (see the Trump Foundation). They just don’t understand the strategic value

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1886315431016743171

    REF: 27% (+1)
    LAB: 23% (+1)
    CON: 21% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 10% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 29 Jan
    Chgs. w/ 22 Jan

    Britain Elects are four days behind the curve, that poll was posted on PB on Thursday.
    Surely the failure of Brexit, as Farages signature policy, must have some impact?

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lgzlbnvpdc23
    Brexit is our Trump 2020 election. If it fails, it fails not because it’s inherently shit and misjudged, it’s because of an establishment conspiracy.

    Pinning the failure of Brexit on Brexiteers is tricky. Cults are not known for rationality.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,981
    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    How’s your bingo card?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Sensible policies for a better Britain

    The SNP "may" ban cat ownership in some places and restrict it in others.

    A policy I Can well get behind.

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/14267268/scots-banned-owning-cats-report/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,745
    Former Conservative MP joins Ukrainian army: https://www.aol.com/ex-tory-mp-joins-ukraines-135150942.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    edited February 3
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,186
    I see various Canadian provinces have already stopped stocking US alcohol.

    I can see the 'boycott USA' gaining traction over there. You have a President imposing tariffs on you for no reason, threateningly calling ok you to become the 51st state.

    USD strengthening too, which makes US exports even less competitive on top of retaliatory tariffs. Great way to improve a trade deficit.

    The Democrats just need to hold steady and call out Trump for making things more expensive for ordinary Americans. Because that is the inevitable result on his trade policy.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,135
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    Does Starmer realise what leverage he has over the EU, with fishing rights?

    We have the whip-hand here, which makes a change. The EU is desperate for a good deal, maintaining their fleets in British waters, and they're not hiding it very well

    We need to extract a hefty pound of trading flesh, in return
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,505
    edited February 3
    Ratters said:

    I see various Canadian provinces have already stopped stocking US alcohol.

    I can see the 'boycott USA' gaining traction over there. You have a President imposing tariffs on you for no reason, threateningly calling ok you to become the 51st state.

    USD strengthening too, which makes US exports even less competitive on top of retaliatory tariffs. Great way to improve a trade deficit.

    The Democrats just need to hold steady and call out Trump for making things more expensive for ordinary Americans. Because that is the inevitable result on his trade policy.

    I suspect boycott USA might be going a bit far in the UK. Boycott Tesla though I can definitely imagine.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
    And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.

    I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.

    There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    Taz said:

    Sensible policies for a better Britain

    The SNP "may" ban cat ownership in some places and restrict it in others.

    A policy I Can well get behind.

    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/14267268/scots-banned-owning-cats-report/

    Some of it makes sense:

    Outdoor-loving felines would also be kept indoors by their owners under the scheme.

    The only exception would be if dedicated owners build outdoor enclosures for their pets.

    One bizarre solution was also that cats could be taken for walks on a LEAD.

    They have also suggested that all cats in vulnerable wildlife areas should be forced to be neutered.


    We must protect the wild haggises.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    Ratters said:

    I see various Canadian provinces have already stopped stocking US alcohol.

    I can see the 'boycott USA' gaining traction over there. You have a President imposing tariffs on you for no reason, threateningly calling ok you to become the 51st state.

    USD strengthening too, which makes US exports even less competitive on top of retaliatory tariffs. Great way to improve a trade deficit.

    The Democrats just need to hold steady and call out Trump for making things more expensive for ordinary Americans. Because that is the inevitable result on his trade policy.

    We should send them a C-17 full of free whisky as humanitarian aid. It's a long winter over there.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    Matters little unless Trump and the GOP change their minds on fully supporting Ukraine.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,186
    rkrkrk said:

    Ratters said:

    I see various Canadian provinces have already stopped stocking US alcohol.

    I can see the 'boycott USA' gaining traction over there. You have a President imposing tariffs on you for no reason, threateningly calling ok you to become the 51st state.

    USD strengthening too, which makes US exports even less competitive on top of retaliatory tariffs. Great way to improve a trade deficit.

    The Democrats just need to hold steady and call out Trump for making things more expensive for ordinary Americans. Because that is the inevitable result on his trade policy.

    I suspect boycott USA might be going a bit far in the UK. Boycott Tesla though I can definitely imagine.
    I agree. But we're not under direct threat in the same way Canada are. They will go further.

    Tesla sales in Europe are already falling and will fall further. They are now the least cool car brand in the world outside of Reform circles.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,031
    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/britainelects/status/1886315431016743171

    REF: 27% (+1)
    LAB: 23% (+1)
    CON: 21% (-2)
    LDEM: 11% (-1)
    GRN: 10% (-)

    via @FindoutnowUK, 29 Jan
    Chgs. w/ 22 Jan

    Britain Elects are four days behind the curve, that poll was posted on PB on Thursday.
    Surely the failure of Brexit, as Farages signature policy, must have some impact?

    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lgzlbnvpdc23
    Not really, because his proposed remedy will be more brexit. Which the chavs will go for like it was a 50% off sale at the vape shop.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    edited February 3

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    Matters little unless Trump and the GOP change their minds on fully supporting Ukraine.
    It's already happening, with USAid stopping the supply of humanitarian stuff like prosthetics.

    (Imagine the frothing on here if Biden had done the same).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    edited February 3
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    You need to visit the Soviet War Memorial in Berlin whilst it is still there.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/Yh9ZCVZtpbgqYMCL8
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    Listing the great cities of Europe, in their various tiers, reminds one of... just how many amazing cities there are in Europe, so many cultured, historic, beautiful , spellbinding places

    It's a damn shame the Old Continent seems determined to commit economic/demographic seppuku
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
    And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.

    I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.

    There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
    You’ve got to admire the principled attitude towards the Führerbunker, completely eradicating what would almost certainly be the most visited museum in the world. As it is it must be the world’s most visited car park.
    I see Berlin as a tangible, living fable: an aspiring imperial capital until it was shattered by 1918, the vital, exhilarating cultural experiment of Weimar shattered by the Nazis, the dark surrender to the worst of human nature ending in a shattered, divided city. It’s Homeric and puts Berlin right up there in terms of world significance.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    How’s your bingo card?
    This appears to be the latest version - 16 down, 9 to go!

    https://x.com/meanwhileinua/status/1885954258299728111
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
    And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.

    I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.

    There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
    You’ve got to admire the principled attitude towards the Führerbunker, completely eradicating what would almost certainly be the most visited museum in the world. As it is it must be the world’s most visited car park.
    I see Berlin as a tangible, living fable: an aspiring imperial capital until it was shattered by 1918, the vital, exhilarating cultural experiment of Weimar shattered by the Nazis, the dark surrender to the worst of human nature ending in a shattered, divided city. It’s Homeric and puts Berlin right up there in terms of world significance.
    I read Anthony Beevor's BERLIN on my first visit to Berlin

    Fuck me, quite an experience. Reading of those intense horrors in the final days, then you look up and see the streets and parks described
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    edited February 3
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    Where would Florence and Venice fit in (although the problem with Venice now is far too many tourists)?

    As for Berlin we are there this year but that’s because we want to go to a concert and the band is playing 2 dates in total - London and Berlin (where they alongside a lot of other musicians now live)

    And the London concert is midweek at a venue I don’t like
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,880
    edited February 3
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    How’s your bingo card?
    This appears to be the latest version - 16 down, 9 to go!

    https://x.com/meanwhileinua/status/1885954258299728111
    That's 16 out of how many, do you know?
    update - 30 to 35 seems to be the range
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    Where would Florence and Venice fit in (although the problem with Venice now is far too many tourists)?

    As for Berlin we are there this year but that’s because we want to go to a concert and the band is playing 2 dates in total - London and Berlin (where they alongside a lot of other musicians now live)
    Venice is so unique I'd put in a side-tier of its own?

    However if forced, I'd put them in Tier 3, near the top. Their economic and tech/political important is tiny, but they are so crucial in the European story, so stuffed with art, so fundamentally beautiful, they easily deserve an elevated slot. Likewise Naples maybe
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,578
    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    The Ukrainians made a mess of one refinery the other day that supplies 5% of Russia's refined oil. All for the cost of a couple of million quid in basic drones. Not even their good stuff. Just ex-sports planes. As warfare goes, losing a significant part of your economy in exchange for some (heavily mined) fields and the remains of half a concrete factory is indeed a very special military operation.

    Putin can't stop. But the price of not stopping is smashing about the only thing that creates value in the Russian economy. Russia will run out of money. The war economy is making products that have proven to be useless in Ukraine, so no-one will pay more than a string of sea-shells for them.

    Then the only thing it will have is vodka.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 390
    rkrkrk said:

    Ratters said:

    I see various Canadian provinces have already stopped stocking US alcohol.

    I can see the 'boycott USA' gaining traction over there. You have a President imposing tariffs on you for no reason, threateningly calling ok you to become the 51st state.

    USD strengthening too, which makes US exports even less competitive on top of retaliatory tariffs. Great way to improve a trade deficit.

    The Democrats just need to hold steady and call out Trump for making things more expensive for ordinary Americans. Because that is the inevitable result on his trade policy.

    I suspect boycott USA might be going a bit far in the UK. Boycott Tesla though I can definitely imagine.
    Wonder when Tesla will be renamed to Icarus to reflect its owner.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    Matters little unless Trump and the GOP change their minds on fully supporting Ukraine.
    It's already happening, with USAid stopping the supply of humanitarian stuff like prosthetics.

    (Imagine the frothing on here if Biden had done the same).
    We saw it last year from people who pretend to care for Ukraine, when the GOP stopped giving Ukraine weapons. That little unnecessary shitshow cost countless Ukrainian lives, yet they remained mostly silent.

    You cannot support both Trump/GOP and Ukraine.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    How’s your bingo card?
    This appears to be the latest version - 16 down, 9 to go!

    https://x.com/meanwhileinua/status/1885954258299728111
    That's 16 out of how many, do you know?
    update - 30 to 35 seems to be the range
    I think the original 25 were all those within X km of the effective border, where X was 500 or so.

    The new long-range ‘drones’ look somewhat like a remote-controlled Cessna light aircraft, but with explosives where the people should be!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
    And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.

    I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.

    There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
    You’ve got to admire the principled attitude towards the Führerbunker, completely eradicating what would almost certainly be the most visited museum in the world. As it is it must be the world’s most visited car park.
    I see Berlin as a tangible, living fable: an aspiring imperial capital until it was shattered by 1918, the vital, exhilarating cultural experiment of Weimar shattered by the Nazis, the dark surrender to the worst of human nature ending in a shattered, divided city. It’s Homeric and puts Berlin right up there in terms of world significance.
    I read Anthony Beevor's BERLIN on my first visit to Berlin

    Fuck me, quite an experience. Reading of those intense horrors in the final days, then you look up and see the streets and parks described
    Yes, the tension between gemütlich and Götterdammerüng is part of the essence of Berlin, though I guess as a tourist I’m imposing that. Most Berliners are of course worrying about rent increases and working out who does the best kebab in the neighbourhood.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    Musk has just been calling USAID a criminal organisation.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886317363953279401
    You keep reminding us of his extra-legal megalomania.
    Why is that ?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,367
    From header: Once the reality of tariffs hits the Americam average voter then I expect Trump and the Republican party will be rather unpopular by November 2026.

    Prices in America will go up a bit owing to tariffs. Prices go up all the time, and went up a lot during Covid and the associated cost of living crisis.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153
    kamski said:

    a

    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It seems these are some of the guys involved:

    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/
    “What we're seeing is unprecedented in that you have these actors who are not really public officials gaining access to the most sensitive data in government,” says Don Moynihan, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan. “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
    Congress does have powers to intervene.
    The GOP are simply choosing not to exercise them.

    Similarly on tariffs: Congress has the power to immediately overturn tariffs imposed by the executive on "national security" grounds, if they so choose.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,999

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    The Ukrainians made a mess of one refinery the other day that supplies 5% of Russia's refined oil. All for the cost of a couple of million quid in basic drones. Not even their good stuff. Just ex-sports planes. As warfare goes, losing a significant part of your economy in exchange for some (heavily mined) fields and the remains of half a concrete factory is indeed a very special military operation.

    Putin can't stop. But the price of not stopping is smashing about the only thing that creates value in the Russian economy. Russia will run out of money. The war economy is making products that have proven to be useless in Ukraine, so no-one will pay more than a string of sea-shells for them.

    Then the only thing it will have is vodka.
    ...and Donald Trump.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,450

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    The Ukrainians made a mess of one refinery the other day that supplies 5% of Russia's refined oil. All for the cost of a couple of million quid in basic drones. Not even their good stuff. Just ex-sports planes. As warfare goes, losing a significant part of your economy in exchange for some (heavily mined) fields and the remains of half a concrete factory is indeed a very special military operation.

    Putin can't stop. But the price of not stopping is smashing about the only thing that creates value in the Russian economy. Russia will run out of money. The war economy is making products that have proven to be useless in Ukraine, so no-one will pay more than a string of sea-shells for them.

    Then the only thing it will have is vodka.
    ...and Donald Trump.
    Not my mixer of choice, tbh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    NEWENT is tricky

    Possibly in Tier 53? Alongside Enniscorthy and Ozorkow, but there's a lot of dispute amongst tier-ologists as to whether it should be above or below Hyvinkaa, the self-styled "Newent of the East"
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    The Ukrainians made a mess of one refinery the other day that supplies 5% of Russia's refined oil. All for the cost of a couple of million quid in basic drones. Not even their good stuff. Just ex-sports planes. As warfare goes, losing a significant part of your economy in exchange for some (heavily mined) fields and the remains of half a concrete factory is indeed a very special military operation.

    Putin can't stop. But the price of not stopping is smashing about the only thing that creates value in the Russian economy. Russia will run out of money. The war economy is making products that have proven to be useless in Ukraine, so no-one will pay more than a string of sea-shells for them.

    Then the only thing it will have is vodka.
    It looks increasingly as if Russia no longer has enough air defence to prevent Ukraine from striking inside Russia at will.

    Ukraine claims to be manufacturing 30,000 of these “Cessna with a 250kg bomb” drones a year. What happens to the Russian economy when every major oil refinery and storage facility is being hit multiple times a month?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,631
    At the moment the Democrats are still unpopular after most Americans rejected their wokeism and lack of sufficient immigration controls last year.

    However yes Trump's tariffs will define his term especially if they increase prices for US consumers and hit exporters without bringing manufacturing jobs back to the rustbelt. With polls suggesting just 38% of Americans back tariffs that could certainly win the Democrats the midterms by default

    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3917
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153

    I've woke up this morning to see Trump has moved onto attacking the EU (and UK).

    I don't bet, but I wonder if he'll still be president come the end of the year.

    I wonder how the US markets are going to react come opening time.

    Are you predicting an assassination? Trump has genuine democratic power. He’s not some Liz Truss figure who can be elbowed out by the deep state.
    O, William, Truss was not elbowed out by the deep state. Don’t fall into conspiratorial thinking. Truss was elbowed out by her own party because she was terrible.
    Insofar as the "deep state" is just a synonym for socioeconomic reality, she pretty well was.

    Her supporters have their own separate reality.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,578
    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    The Ukrainians made a mess of one refinery the other day that supplies 5% of Russia's refined oil. All for the cost of a couple of million quid in basic drones. Not even their good stuff. Just ex-sports planes. As warfare goes, losing a significant part of your economy in exchange for some (heavily mined) fields and the remains of half a concrete factory is indeed a very special military operation.

    Putin can't stop. But the price of not stopping is smashing about the only thing that creates value in the Russian economy. Russia will run out of money. The war economy is making products that have proven to be useless in Ukraine, so no-one will pay more than a string of sea-shells for them.

    Then the only thing it will have is vodka.
    It looks increasingly as if Russia no longer has enough air defence to prevent Ukraine from striking inside Russia at will.

    Ukraine claims to be manufacturing 30,000 of these “Cessna with a 250kg bomb” drones a year. What happens to the Russian economy when every major oil refinery and storage facility is being hit multiple times a month?
    What should worry Russia is the night a month's worth of production sets off for Moscow...
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452

    From header: Once the reality of tariffs hits the Americam average voter then I expect Trump and the Republican party will be rather unpopular by November 2026.

    Prices in America will go up a bit owing to tariffs. Prices go up all the time, and went up a lot during Covid and the associated cost of living crisis.

    Inflation in food prices was identified as one of the major motivating factors in voter‘s decision to vote for Trump pre-election. Are they going to stay loyal to Trump when food prices go up another 20% for reasons that are directly linked to Trump policy?

    Hard to say: once inside a belief system people tend to double down on their past decisions rather than reverse them when faced with new contradictory information. But that only applies to the true Maga believers. Those who lent Trump their vote may feel very differently.

    The problem, obviously, is that we are no longer in normal times: Musk has taken direct control of the expenditure of the federal government, giving him unprecedented power over every aspect of the US. In six month’s time, if you want federal money it seems plausible that you’re going to need Musk’s personal approval, which he will be able to revert at any time. “Can US democracy survive this take-over by the oligarchs?” is not a question I expected to be asking, but it’s one we’re going to find out the answer to I guess.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153
    Another option for Canada is to cancel their F35 order and buy European.

    S Korea probably made the right choice in massively developing its own arms industry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153

    From header: Once the reality of tariffs hits the Americam average voter then I expect Trump and the Republican party will be rather unpopular by November 2026.

    Prices in America will go up a bit owing to tariffs. Prices go up all the time, and went up a lot during Covid and the associated cost of living crisis.

    ... and made the Democrats rather unpopular.

    Trump was elected on a promise of halting inflation.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185

    Sandpit said:

    What’s better than a Russian oil refinery on fire?

    TWO Russian oil refineries on fire!!

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1886284349126893782

    The Ukrainians made a mess of one refinery the other day that supplies 5% of Russia's refined oil. All for the cost of a couple of million quid in basic drones. Not even their good stuff. Just ex-sports planes. As warfare goes, losing a significant part of your economy in exchange for some (heavily mined) fields and the remains of half a concrete factory is indeed a very special military operation.

    Putin can't stop. But the price of not stopping is smashing about the only thing that creates value in the Russian economy. Russia will run out of money. The war economy is making products that have proven to be useless in Ukraine, so no-one will pay more than a string of sea-shells for them.

    Then the only thing it will have is vodka.
    If the war grinds to a halt more or less on current lines as a ceasefire (I wouldn't expect a real peace agreement) then in what Russia has gained in the Donbas are mineral deposits worth trillions. Not that they would be in a position to extract them any time soon.

    The risk for Putin is that when the war stops the questions will be asked about his leadership. He cannot afford to stop.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,164
    HYUFD said:

    At the moment the Democrats are still unpopular after most Americans rejected their wokeism and lack of sufficient immigration controls last year.

    However yes Trump's tariffs will define his term especially if they increase prices for US consumers and hit exporters without bringing manufacturing jobs back to the rustbelt. With polls suggesting just 38% of Americans back tariffs that could certainly win the Democrats the midterms by default

    https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3917

    Indeed, and as the Conservatives are demonstrating here, parties which are rejected by the electorate rarely find renewed popularity either easily or quickly.

    Dissatisfaction or disillusionment with the incoming administration manifests itself first as falling levels of enthusiasm for that party or President. People look first for alternatives (the Democrats may do better at local level before their national profile improves) or register their dissatisfaction by abstention before actively considering a party which could form an alternative Government or President.

    Reform, for example, is currently a party of protest, of discontent, of disillusion with BOTH the current Government and the previous incumbents but it’s not yet a vote for Government. Reform is currently whatever you want it to be - there will come a time when it will have to answer the real questions - what would they do in Government? How would their immigration policy work? Who would they support in the event of a Hung Parliament?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    We kinda moved on to cities as cities, their world status

    But even as a top city destination, Berlin doesn't cut it

    What are the ten must see cities in Europe?

    London
    Paris
    Rome
    Barcelona
    Athens
    Vienna
    Venice
    Istanbul
    Moscow
    St Petersburg


    Sorry, Berlin doesn't make it

    It's in the next ten, isn't it?

    Prague
    Amsterdam
    Madrid
    Naples
    Lisbon
    Dublin
    Berlin
    Kyiv
    Edinburgh
    Florence

    If Tbilisi is allowed I'd swap it for Dublin




  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    ‘A Rare Pervert’ will be on the blurb on the back of Leon’s next book.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    ‘A Rare Pervert’ will be on the blurb on the back of Leon’s next book.
    It's so good - and, I dare say, accurate - I might make it the title of my memoirs
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,474
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    Well the way he sets it out, Rome is the fourth best city to travel to in the world. Hard for Rome's backers to quibble to much with that. He's drawn an abitrary line after No. 3 but said Rome comes next. London, Paris, New York, Rome - with the first three perhaps in a different order - doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    a

    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It seems these are some of the guys involved:

    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/
    “What we're seeing is unprecedented in that you have these actors who are not really public officials gaining access to the most sensitive data in government,” says Don Moynihan, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan. “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
    Congress does have powers to intervene.
    The GOP are simply choosing not to exercise them.

    Similarly on tariffs: Congress has the power to immediately overturn tariffs imposed by the executive on "national security" grounds, if they so choose.
    Trump is doing so many things at the same time it would be umpossible to block everything and I think that’s the point here
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    We kinda moved on to cities as cities, their world status

    But even as a top city destination, Berlin doesn't cut it

    What are the ten must see cities in Europe?

    London
    Paris
    Rome
    Barcelona
    Athens
    Vienna
    Venice
    Istanbul
    Moscow
    St Petersburg


    Sorry, Berlin doesn't make it

    It's in the next ten, isn't it?

    Prague
    Amsterdam
    Madrid
    Naples
    Lisbon
    Dublin
    Berlin
    Kyiv
    Edinburgh
    Florence

    If Tbilisi is allowed I'd swap it for Dublin




    I was talking about Rome.

    Remedial reading comprehension classes for you, again.

    I wouldn't put Berlin in the top ten cities to visit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,954
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    The problem with Rome is how it treats its history. Some is in great condition - Pantheon for example. The Colosseum is much improved, for the visitor. But a lot is simply fenced off and let to decay.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    Nigelb said:

    From header: Once the reality of tariffs hits the Americam average voter then I expect Trump and the Republican party will be rather unpopular by November 2026.

    Prices in America will go up a bit owing to tariffs. Prices go up all the time, and went up a lot during Covid and the associated cost of living crisis.

    ... and made the Democrats rather unpopular.

    Trump was elected on a promise of halting inflation.
    Yep but if Trump gets the inflation out of the way early (and (big if) it’s a one off increase that doesn’t become stagflation) - then in 3.75 years time this inflation will be forgotten about
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663
    Phil said:

    once inside a belief system people tend to double down on their past decisions rather than reverse them when faced with new contradictory information.

    Which makes the recent Brexit polling all the more remarkable.

    It is not just shit, it is SO shit even those who believed in it have abandoned the faith.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    Phil said:

    From header: Once the reality of tariffs hits the Americam average voter then I expect Trump and the Republican party will be rather unpopular by November 2026.

    Prices in America will go up a bit owing to tariffs. Prices go up all the time, and went up a lot during Covid and the associated cost of living crisis.

    Inflation in food prices was identified as one of the major motivating factors in voter‘s decision to vote for Trump pre-election. Are they going to stay loyal to Trump when food prices go up another 20% for reasons that are directly linked to Trump policy?

    Hard to say: once inside a belief system people tend to double down on their past decisions rather than reverse them when faced with new contradictory information. But that only applies to the true Maga believers. Those who lent Trump their vote may feel very differently.

    The problem, obviously, is that we are no longer in normal times: Musk has taken direct control of the expenditure of the federal government, giving him unprecedented power over every aspect of the US. In six month’s time, if you want federal money it seems plausible that you’re going to need Musk’s personal approval, which he will be able to revert at any time. “Can US democracy survive this take-over by the oligarchs?” is not a question I expected to be asking, but it’s one we’re going to find out the answer to I guess.
    It would be fitting if Trump, so often described as transactional, got his comeuppance from not fulfilling the transaction of cheap gas and eggs in return for votes. Unfortunately Trump’s long history of not holding up his end of a deal suggests he may get away with it yet again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440
    edited February 3
    Cookie said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    Well the way he sets it out, Rome is the fourth best city to travel to in the world. Hard for Rome's backers to quibble to much with that. He's drawn an abitrary line after No. 3 but said Rome comes next. London, Paris, New York, Rome - with the first three perhaps in a different order - doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
    TBF @kamski has a point that I am blurring the line betwen "travel destination" and "the intrinsic status of cities", and while there is overlap - London, Paris and New York are surely top of anyone's list of cities to visit, there are many differences. eg Florence and certainly Venice would be - should be - in most people's "top ten cities to see one day", but they aren't in any way powerful or important, not any more
  • eekeek Posts: 29,139
    edited February 3

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    The problem with Rome is how it treats its history. Some is in great condition - Pantheon for example. The Colosseum is much improved, for the visitor. But a lot is simply fenced off and let to decay.
    I need to find the article I read over the weekend but the problem Rome has is that it has so much architecture that building a new underground line is basically a 40 year archeology dig with a railway attached at the very end - if they can find a route that doesn’t destroy things
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,578
    Phil said:

    From header: Once the reality of tariffs hits the Americam average voter then I expect Trump and the Republican party will be rather unpopular by November 2026.

    Prices in America will go up a bit owing to tariffs. Prices go up all the time, and went up a lot during Covid and the associated cost of living crisis.

    Inflation in food prices was identified as one of the major motivating factors in voter‘s decision to vote for Trump pre-election. Are they going to stay loyal to Trump when food prices go up another 20% for reasons that are directly linked to Trump policy?

    Hard to say: once inside a belief system people tend to double down on their past decisions rather than reverse them when faced with new contradictory information. But that only applies to the true Maga believers. Those who lent Trump their vote may feel very differently.

    The problem, obviously, is that we are no longer in normal times: Musk has taken direct control of the expenditure of the federal government, giving him unprecedented power over every aspect of the US. In six month’s time, if you want federal money it seems plausible that you’re going to need Musk’s personal approval, which he will be able to revert at any time. “Can US democracy survive this take-over by the oligarchs?” is not a question I expected to be asking, but it’s one we’re going to find out the answer to I guess.
    “Can US democracy survive this take-over by the oligarchs?”

    Guns top-trump Facebook and X...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,031
    Nigelb said:

    Another option for Canada is to cancel their F35 order and buy European.

    S Korea probably made the right choice in massively developing its own arms industry.

    That's not an option unless they pull out of NORAD. Then they really will be out in the cold.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,688
    eek said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    The problem with Rome is how it treats its history. Some is in great condition - Pantheon for example. The Colosseum is much improved, for the visitor. But a lot is simply fenced off and let to decay.
    I need to find the article I read over the weekend but the problem Rome has is that it has so much architecture that building a new underground line is basically a 40 year archeology dig with a railway attached at the very end - if they can find a route that doesn’t destroy things
    As opposed to a 40 year planning dispute with nowt but a hole at the end of it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    Depends what you’re up to. Sightseeing don’t go to Berlin. Go to Vienna at Christmas. If you want a good quirky night out Berlin can be a lot of fun. A young city.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,202
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    Lots & lots of buildings pockmarked by bullets from 1945, so a fair bit.
    And quite a few old buildings with a new corner in a different style from where the original corner got bombed.

    I really like Berlin, with all it's lakes, parks, and fascinating history. The Nazi stuff was pretty much eradicated, with not even a marker to show where the bunker was. Some great museums too, especially the Topography of Terror (on the rise of the Nazis in Berlin) and on Museum Island. Great nightlife too, with a fair whiff of the Caberet era.

    There's a lot still being constructed but well worth a visit. 250 000 Beliners turned out yesterday to March against AfD. They know where it all leads.
    You’ve got to admire the principled attitude towards the Führerbunker, completely eradicating what would almost certainly be the most visited museum in the world. As it is it must be the world’s most visited car park.
    I see Berlin as a tangible, living fable: an aspiring imperial capital until it was shattered by 1918, the vital, exhilarating cultural experiment of Weimar shattered by the Nazis, the dark surrender to the worst of human nature ending in a shattered, divided city. It’s Homeric and puts Berlin right up there in terms of world significance.
    I read Anthony Beevor's BERLIN on my first visit to Berlin

    Fuck me, quite an experience. Reading of those intense horrors in the final days, then you look up and see the streets and parks described
    Shockingly, that's a book I've read too. Aye, pretty grim. Also much Western naivety when faced with an aggressive Russia.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,613
    Potential assassination in Moscow
    https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1886324958185283925

    Might not even be the Ukrainians who did it, but the Chechens...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    a

    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    The USAID (aiui their version of our ODA) website, and their Twitter account, has vanished:

    https://www.usaid.gov/

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/02/02/g-s1-46007/usaid-web-site-trump-state-department

    There were suggestions over the weekend that the senior management got marched out of the building after refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump’s team. It sounds like the plan is to merge USAID back into the State Department, starting with a zero-based budget.
    'there were suggestions' is another tell from you that what follows is bollocks.

    Unless 'refusing to co-operate with anyone in Trump's team' =

    Two senior officials at the US Agency for International Development (USAID) have been suspended after they tried to stop members of Elon Musk's efficiency team from accessing secure systems, according to reports.

    Sky News' US partner NBC News spoke to three sources who said the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) team wanted to access some files that were beyond their security level.


    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-usaid-pair-suspended-after-refusing-elon-musks-doge-staff-access-to-secure-systems-13302165

    Also we have the evidence of Musk claiming that working weekends is a superpower because bureaucrats don't work weekends...
    It seems these are some of the guys involved:

    https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/
    “What we're seeing is unprecedented in that you have these actors who are not really public officials gaining access to the most sensitive data in government,” says Don Moynihan, a professor of public policy at the University of Michigan. “We really have very little eyes on what's going on. Congress has no ability to really intervene and monitor what's happening because these aren't really accountable public officials. So this feels like a hostile takeover of the machinery of governments by the richest man in the world.”
    Congress does have powers to intervene.
    The GOP are simply choosing not to exercise them.

    Similarly on tariffs: Congress has the power to immediately overturn tariffs imposed by the executive on "national security" grounds, if they so choose.
    Trump is doing so many things at the same time it would be umpossible to block everything and I think that’s the point here
    They aren't even trying is the point.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,954
    eek said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    I have a very soft spot for Berlin. It embodies the history of the 20th Century, all in one place. All the faultlines, the ideologies, the hope and despair.

    I do think it was perhaps at its most compelling around the mid noughties, funnily enough around the time that Merkel was taking office or had just bedded in. Some of the past was even more present (e.g the ugly East German parliament building was still standing, though I think was already slated for demolition) but there was perhaps a dynamism and energy in the air with the new architecture of government, the rebuilt Reichstag building etc, which gave it the feeling of a city in optimistic transition - moving from the shadows of the past into the exciting new European future where Germany would take the lead. The city is still great, but perhaps seeing it in that optimistic, transitional moment was the most special
    I guess that's right
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Fpt on Berlin as a travel destination

    It’s great if you want Dark Noom. It probably has more Dark Noom than any capital city on earth. This is where Hitler died. This was a stasi torture chamber. This was the Berlin Wall. Those are graffiti by red army soldiers etc

    But most people don’t travel to experience the noomy absence of god and the tingle of spiritual despair and bleakness; so hey Ho

    Some excellent museums and nice gardens. Definitely better in summer unter den linden

    How much of it survived the final onslaught against the Nazi's ?

    Is there any of old Berlin left or is it totally rebuilt
    There's quite a bit left, all battered and shrapnelled - but that only adds to the Dark Noom

    East Berlin probably has more than West because they didn't have the money to demolish and develop

    It's not a great world city, nowhere near. I'm not even sure it is in the noble second tier of European cities alongside, say Barcelona or Rome, Vienna or Athens

    It's in the crowded third tier - with Lisbon, Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Munich, Prague, Edinburgh, Dublin...

    Better than Wick, mind you
    Depends what you want/like. Berlin has an international feel (unlike other German cities) a feeling of space (lots of wide streets), some agreeably grungey neighborhoods, and interesting historical stuff - the various holocaust memorials are worth mentioning. Of course you can't compare it with Rome (and in what crazy world is Rome not a top tier European city?), but I think a comparison with Vienna is interesting - both former imperial capitals (and both much smaller than London), but with very different things to offer.
    There's a top tier of world cities, but it is tiny. New York, London, Paris.... and then any others? Not sure. Singapore? Dubai? Nope. Not enough culture. Tokyo a bit too Japanese. Sydney nah. Hong Kong was getting there, not now. Rome isn't in this tier because to be a world city you need power, size and tech/financial heft

    Rome is at the top of the second tier

    Shanghai is probably the likeliest to make the grade to world city, and maybe soon

    But to be in the rarefied second tier you need a lot of history (hence Rome, Athens), amazing culture and architecture (Vienna, Barcelona). I'd put Moscow and St Petersburg in this second tier, as well, and Istanbul

    Berlin doesn't quite match those cities, to my mind

    Top of the third tier is about right for the Prussian capital

    "Berlin as a travel destination" was what you wrote at the top of this thread. It's a rare pervert who needs "power, size and tech/financial heft" to enjoy their city break.

    Rome is absolutely a top tier city as a travel destination for anyone who isn't a weirdo.
    The problem with Rome is how it treats its history. Some is in great condition - Pantheon for example. The Colosseum is much improved, for the visitor. But a lot is simply fenced off and let to decay.
    I need to find the article over the weekend but the problem Rome has is that it has so much architecture that building a new underground line is basically a 40 year archeology dig with a railway attached at the very end - if they can find a route that doesn’t destroy things
    True - but I’m not talking about new development. The remains of Pompey’s theatre are in the middle of a square - with no conservation or access.

    One story I like was how the Athens underground got dug - it was sold to the archaeologists as a unique opportunity to dig in places they could never previously touch. Quite a bit of stuff they found was incorporated into the stations.
This discussion has been closed.