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PB 2025 predicitions competition – final chance to enter – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,320
edited February 18 in General
imagePB 2025 predicitions competition – final chance to enter – politicalbetting.com

It’s time to get your entries in for the 2025 PB Predictions Competition if you haven’t already.  All entries must be in by midnight tonight on Friday 31st January!

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663
    ...
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,130
    @Benpointer have you got a list of confirmed entries? I want to make sure you have mine!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,440

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,001
    edited January 31
    Leon said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
    Well more to do with the fact I am donating the prize of £100 of Amazon vouchers, just imagine the conflict of interest if I ended up awarding the prize to myself.

    Anyhoo, you'd be more Luca Badoer in a Ferrari, he's the Hannibal Barca of F1 drivers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
    Disqualified?
    Unsuited to the terrain.

    (I didn’t enter because I didn’t get around to it.)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,957
    Leon said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
    Red faced, letting off steam and broken down?
  • mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    You cannot be any worse than Big John Owls who ended up with zero in the last competition.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Ooh, thanks for the reminder!

    (Hurriedly runs away to look up my first guesses on the original thread, and re-evaluate in the context of Janaury’s data and news events).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    edited January 31
    Competition

    1) Lab 31, Con 28, LD 15, Ref 31

    2) Lab 18, Con 16, LD 10, Ref 18

    3) 7

    4) 0

    5) 2

    6) 4

    7) 163 seats

    8) 2.3% CPI.

    9) £107 billion

    10) 1.6%

    11) -1.0%

    12) 0.8%

    13) 142

    14 4 nil Australia
  • Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
    Disqualified?
    Unsuited to the terrain.

    (I didn’t enter because I didn’t get around to it.)
    There's still time.
  • Kin hell.

    England's U-19 women's team against India in the semi final of the World T20 have gone from 81/2 to 92/8.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153
    This looks like an increasing trend which paused during the pandemic.

    The number of foreigners working in Japan surged by 250,000 in a year to 2.3m in October, the largest year-on-year increase since records began in 2008, as efforts by companies to shore up labor shortages with employees from overseas start to bear fruit.
    https://x.com/NikkeiAsia/status/1885210933816893885
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,745
    FPT…
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    JD Vance attacks Rory Stewart directly:

    https://x.com/jdvance/status/1885073046400012538

    Just google “ordo amoris.” Aside from that, the idea that there isn’t a hierarchy of obligations violates basic common sense. Does Rory really think his moral duties to his own children are the same as his duties to a stranger who lives thousands of miles away? Does anyone?

    I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: the problem with Rory and people like him is that he has an IQ of 110 and thinks he has an IQ of 130. This false arrogance drives so much elite failure over the last 40 years.

    @Dannythefink

    It’s interesting that @jdvance thinks this gap is a predictor of failure. What IQ does Donald Trump think he has? And what IQ does he actually have?
    The highest IQ President since WW2 was probably Nixon closely followed by Carter and the highest IQ defeated presidential candidate was probably Hillary Clinton so high IQ alone does not guarantee success in political leadership
    Why are right wing people so obsessed with IQ tests these days? Where has it come from? People used to talk about intelligence, or intellect, or wisdom, or being bright. Now it’s all IQ, and bizarrely specific. I mean who the fuck has actually done an IQ test since the age of about 8?
    I'd suggest it's at least in part a theme resurfacing from decades ago.

    One of the organisations exposed by Hope not Hate in the October 2024 Despatches documentary was trying to mainstream "Race Science" again, which is the ideas around different "races" being different for IQ, libido etc, and an ideology to allow the current self-regarded "top dogs" to justify their position.

    The modern era has a long history of efforts to establish the legitimacy of race science. Race science states that biological race and genetic endowments explain differences between ‘races’ in intelligence (IQ), health, physical abilities, cognitive skills, and behavioural propensities (e.g., criminality).

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9668105/#:~:text=The modern era has a,propensities (e.g., criminality).

    (One of the surveys mentioned in the programme by the organisers on hidden camera was of prostitutes trying to evaluate the libido of black men vs white men and so on. They were being funded by the internet entrepreneur who founded Adult Friend Finder, who ran a mile when it became public.)

    It's the sort of racist theme pursued from time to time by eg Spectator Columnist Taki Theodoracopulos (and perhaps more so in his own Taki's Magazine). He is also party responsible for "The American Conserative" where my "America First" article linked earlier came from.

    The Establishment Right seem cool with it; they only chucked him off the Spectator when he became a convicted, attempted rapist, as well as a public racist.

    The Hope not Hate Despatches documentary is here:
    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/undercover-exposing-the-far-right

    (To be clear - this is my personal opinion.)
    Yes, that is explicitly what Leon believes.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    I have no detectable predictive ability, and I still entered last month.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    edited January 31
    FPT:
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    JD Vance attacks Rory Stewart directly:

    https://x.com/jdvance/status/1885073046400012538

    Just google “ordo amoris.” Aside from that, the idea that there isn’t a hierarchy of obligations violates basic common sense. Does Rory really think his moral duties to his own children are the same as his duties to a stranger who lives thousands of miles away? Does anyone?

    I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: the problem with Rory and people like him is that he has an IQ of 110 and thinks he has an IQ of 130. This false arrogance drives so much elite failure over the last 40 years.

    @Dannythefink

    It’s interesting that @jdvance thinks this gap is a predictor of failure. What IQ does Donald Trump think he has? And what IQ does he actually have?
    The highest IQ President since WW2 was probably Nixon closely followed by Carter and the highest IQ defeated presidential candidate was probably Hillary Clinton so high IQ alone does not guarantee success in political leadership
    Why are right wing people so obsessed with IQ tests these days? Where has it come from? People used to talk about intelligence, or intellect, or wisdom, or being bright. Now it’s all IQ, and bizarrely specific. I mean who the fuck has actually done an IQ test since the age of about 8?
    I'd suggest it's at least in part a theme resurfacing from a number of decades ago.

    One of the organisations exposed by Hope not Hate in the October 2024 Despatches documentary was trying to mainstream "Race Science" again, which is the ideas around different "races" being different for IQ, libido etc, and an ideology to allow the current self-regarded "top dogs" to self-justify their position.

    The modern era has a long history of efforts to establish the legitimacy of race science. Race science states that biological race and genetic endowments explain differences between ‘races’ in intelligence (IQ), health, physical abilities, cognitive skills, and behavioural propensities (e.g., criminality).

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9668105/#:~:text=The modern era has a,propensities (e.g., criminality).

    (One of the surveys mentioned in the programme by the organisers on hidden camera was of prostitutes trying to evaluate the libido of black men vs white men and so on. They were being funded to $1m+ by the internet entrepreneur who founded Adult Friend Finder, who ran a mile when it became public.)

    It's the sort of racist theme pursued from time to time by eg Spectator Columnist Taki Theodoracopulos (and perhaps more so in his own Taki's Magazine). He is also party responsible for "The American Conservative" started in 2002 where my "America First" article linked earlier came from, with Pat Buchanan and Scott McDonnell. That type of tradition has some input on the ground floor of the American Right as it is now; I would call it frivolous, but it gets traction sometimes then is no longer frivolous.

    The Establishment Right were cool with it for decades; they only chucked Taki him off the Spectator after 40+ years when he became a convicted, attempted rapist, as well as a public racist.

    The Hope not Hate Despatches documentary is here:
    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/undercover-exposing-the-far-right

    (To be clear - this is my personal opinion.)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    That puts you in a difficult position. You either do not enter the competition, thus proving your prediction that you would not enter the competition correct (and showing that you are a liar and do have predictive ability). Or you do enter the competition, supporting your statement of having a lack of predictive ability, but making your statement above, again, a lie.

    I guess your lack of predictive ability prevented you from foreseeing this difficulty? :wink:
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Nigelb said:

    Someone fact checks Trump’s (unsurprisingly, untrue) claim about the US sending Gaza $50m to buy condoms.

    So it looks like the "condoms in Gaza" were being sent to the province of "Gaza" in...Mozambique. If the Administration doesn't like the idea of helping fight STDs in Africa (like PEPFAR) then they should say so. But they thought you'd think of that other Gaza…

    … Needless to say, the full grant here was clearly not just for condoms. It's for Alcancar, which provides maternal, neonatal, and child health care and also works with the Integrated Family Planning Project in a neighboring province.

    https://x.com/AstorAaron/status/1884724339548774415

    Trump supported the program in 2019.

    It's like the old joke:
    - He's lying
    - How can you tell?
    - His lips are moving

    Except with Trump it's less of a joke, and more a useful rule of thumb.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Personally, my expectations from the competition is that I win... the title of Selebadamus. Or maybe just dumbass, for short :blush:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,505
    Leon said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
    Putting in five wildly varying entries would be too obvious, anyway
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663
    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Posted at the time

    @alexkirshner.com‬
    classic DCA thing is that it has a lot of routes that definitely only exist because some senator doesn't wanna fly through Dulles

    @dreyesceron.bsky.social‬
    right on cue during the first presser: Jerry Moran (R), Senator from Kansas, just said that he lobbied the hill for a direct flight from Kansas to DC which has been active for about a year now
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663
    posted 2 days ago

    I knew one of the Jan 6 rioters that Trump pardoned was killed by a policeman.

    I didn't know 3 more are facing charges for kiddie porn

    https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1884678238221287657

    All the best people...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    edited January 31
    Nigelb said:

    Someone fact checks Trump’s (unsurprisingly, untrue) claim about the US sending Gaza $50m to buy condoms.

    So it looks like the "condoms in Gaza" were being sent to the province of "Gaza" in...Mozambique. If the Administration doesn't like the idea of helping fight STDs in Africa (like PEPFAR) then they should say so. But they thought you'd think of that other Gaza…

    … Needless to say, the full grant here was clearly not just for condoms. It's for Alcancar, which provides maternal, neonatal, and child health care and also works with the Integrated Family Planning Project in a neighboring province.

    https://x.com/AstorAaron/status/1884724339548774415

    Trump supported the program in 2019.

    It's the wilful stupidity of Trumpistan in a nutshell. No understanding of either geography or health, and obsessed with culture war.

    2 down and just 202 weeks to go.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    Selebian said:

    Personally, my expectations from the competition is that I win... the title of Selebadamus. Or maybe just dumbass, for short :blush:

    Well I was joint 72nd with a few others last year so I think in the words of Yazz, the only way is up.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,614
    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    Ditto. For me, it's not potential embarrassment at failing or coming bottom; it's the fact that there is so much guesswork involved that, if I were to 'win', it would be a pure fluke, and I would feel pretty bad that my WAGs were in any way accurate. 'Winning' would mean nothing, as it said nothing about my ability to predict, just to guess.

    Having said that thanks to @Benpointer for organising it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,745
    You remember the 1 in 12 people in London are illegal immigrants story… which turned out to be bollocks? The Sun has printed a retraction of their coverage: https://www.thesun.co.uk/clarifications/33054976/illegal-migrants-a-correction/
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    Ditto. For me, it's not potential embarrassment at failing or coming bottom; it's the fact that there is so much guesswork involved that, if I were to 'win', it would be a pure fluke, and I would feel pretty bad that my WAGs were in any way accurate. 'Winning' would mean nothing, as it said nothing about my ability to predict, just to guess.

    Having said that thanks to @Benpointer for organising it.
    Why would you feel bad about your wives and girlfriends being accurate? I never had you down as a misogynist :wink:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,505
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Someone fact checks Trump’s (unsurprisingly, untrue) claim about the US sending Gaza $50m to buy condoms.

    So it looks like the "condoms in Gaza" were being sent to the province of "Gaza" in...Mozambique. If the Administration doesn't like the idea of helping fight STDs in Africa (like PEPFAR) then they should say so. But they thought you'd think of that other Gaza…

    … Needless to say, the full grant here was clearly not just for condoms. It's for Alcancar, which provides maternal, neonatal, and child health care and also works with the Integrated Family Planning Project in a neighboring province.

    https://x.com/AstorAaron/status/1884724339548774415

    Trump supported the program in 2019.

    It's the wilful stupidity of Trumpistan in a nutshell. No understanding of either geography or health, and obsessed with culture war.

    2 down and just 202 weeks to go.
    Hopefully it won’t be as long as that, if he is castrated by the midterms
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106
    Taz said:

    Selebian said:

    Personally, my expectations from the competition is that I win... the title of Selebadamus. Or maybe just dumbass, for short :blush:

    Well I was joint 72nd with a few others last year so I think in the words of Yazz, the only way is up.
    Risk is more people entering gives greater depths to which to fall (this is my debut year - I'd missed it unintentionally previously, just not got round to entering).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    I won a PB predictions contest once, and have prize to show for it (a volume on the evolution of parliamentary boundaries in London*) for getting the Eastleigh by-election right.

    While a superb prize, I have not come any where close since.

    * https://amzn.eu/d/81bglMj
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited January 31
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    Indeed. They’ll say that it’s because these are the most challenging conditions in which they fly outside of a war zone, and that doing it in the middle of nowhere wouldn’t be representative of the many complex operations that run out of the DC area.

    I have a suspicion that Reagan is going to end up closed to either the civvies or the mil as a result of this accident. There’s been so many near misses that an accident was inevitable at some point. It’s right next to the Pentagon and a lot of closed airspace.

    Probably sending all the civvy traffic to Dulles, and improving the transport links from there into the centre of DC - maybe with a John Prescott style ‘bus lane’ - is the way forward. Everyone in DC, along with their families and staff, knows that it could have been them on that plane that went down.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,807
    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233

    FPT…

    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    JD Vance attacks Rory Stewart directly:

    https://x.com/jdvance/status/1885073046400012538

    Just google “ordo amoris.” Aside from that, the idea that there isn’t a hierarchy of obligations violates basic common sense. Does Rory really think his moral duties to his own children are the same as his duties to a stranger who lives thousands of miles away? Does anyone?

    I’ve said before and I’ll say it again: the problem with Rory and people like him is that he has an IQ of 110 and thinks he has an IQ of 130. This false arrogance drives so much elite failure over the last 40 years.

    @Dannythefink

    It’s interesting that @jdvance thinks this gap is a predictor of failure. What IQ does Donald Trump think he has? And what IQ does he actually have?
    The highest IQ President since WW2 was probably Nixon closely followed by Carter and the highest IQ defeated presidential candidate was probably Hillary Clinton so high IQ alone does not guarantee success in political leadership
    Why are right wing people so obsessed with IQ tests these days? Where has it come from? People used to talk about intelligence, or intellect, or wisdom, or being bright. Now it’s all IQ, and bizarrely specific. I mean who the fuck has actually done an IQ test since the age of about 8?
    I'd suggest it's at least in part a theme resurfacing from decades ago.

    One of the organisations exposed by Hope not Hate in the October 2024 Despatches documentary was trying to mainstream "Race Science" again, which is the ideas around different "races" being different for IQ, libido etc, and an ideology to allow the current self-regarded "top dogs" to justify their position.

    The modern era has a long history of efforts to establish the legitimacy of race science. Race science states that biological race and genetic endowments explain differences between ‘races’ in intelligence (IQ), health, physical abilities, cognitive skills, and behavioural propensities (e.g., criminality).

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9668105/#:~:text=The modern era has a,propensities (e.g., criminality).

    (One of the surveys mentioned in the programme by the organisers on hidden camera was of prostitutes trying to evaluate the libido of black men vs white men and so on. They were being funded by the internet entrepreneur who founded Adult Friend Finder, who ran a mile when it became public.)

    It's the sort of racist theme pursued from time to time by eg Spectator Columnist Taki Theodoracopulos (and perhaps more so in his own Taki's Magazine). He is also party responsible for "The American Conserative" where my "America First" article linked earlier came from.

    The Establishment Right seem cool with it; they only chucked him off the Spectator when he became a convicted, attempted rapist, as well as a public racist.

    The Hope not Hate Despatches documentary is here:
    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/undercover-exposing-the-far-right

    (To be clear - this is my personal opinion.)
    Yes, that is explicitly what Leon believes.
    I probably wouldn't know - I try not to get my opinions from the amusing floor show :wink: .
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,807
    I think I shan't enter again. To misquote David Cameron - 'I think I'd be rather bad at it'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,954
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    Indeed. They’ll say that it’s because these are the most challenging conditions in which they fly outside of a war zone, and that doing it in the middle of nowhere wouldn’t be representative of the many complex operations that run out of the DC area.

    I have a suspicion that Reagan is going to end up closed to either the civvies or the mil as a result of this accident. There’s been so many near misses that an accident was inevitable at some point. It’s right next to the Pentagon and a lot of closed airspace.

    Probably sending all the civvy traffic to Dulles, and improving the transport links from there into the centre of DC - maybe with a John Prescott style ‘bus lane’ - is the way forward. Everyone in DC, along with their families and staff, knows that it could have been them on that plane that went down.
    In the cases of the military, it’s probably a combination of “we’ve done it here for decades” and political advertising.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Someone fact checks Trump’s (unsurprisingly, untrue) claim about the US sending Gaza $50m to buy condoms.

    So it looks like the "condoms in Gaza" were being sent to the province of "Gaza" in...Mozambique. If the Administration doesn't like the idea of helping fight STDs in Africa (like PEPFAR) then they should say so. But they thought you'd think of that other Gaza…

    … Needless to say, the full grant here was clearly not just for condoms. It's for Alcancar, which provides maternal, neonatal, and child health care and also works with the Integrated Family Planning Project in a neighboring province.

    https://x.com/AstorAaron/status/1884724339548774415

    Trump supported the program in 2019.

    It's the wilful stupidity of Trumpistan in a nutshell. No understanding of either geography or health, and obsessed with culture war.

    2 down and just 202 weeks to go.
    Read down the comments.

    The MAGA crew just doubles down and says “so what - Africa should fund itself.”
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,891
    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited January 31

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 90% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    Selebian said:

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    Ditto. For me, it's not potential embarrassment at failing or coming bottom; it's the fact that there is so much guesswork involved that, if I were to 'win', it would be a pure fluke, and I would feel pretty bad that my WAGs were in any way accurate. 'Winning' would mean nothing, as it said nothing about my ability to predict, just to guess.

    Having said that thanks to @Benpointer for organising it.
    Why would you feel bad about your wives and girlfriends being accurate? I never had you down as a misogynist :wink:
    I was just hoping that JJs wives and girlfriends are on good terms.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,977
    edited January 31

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    A reminder, I have entered the competition to give other people a chance of winning.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I have NEVER entered this competition for this exact reason, I’d be like a Ferrari in a donkey race
    Disqualified?
    A prancing donkey?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Someone fact checks Trump’s (unsurprisingly, untrue) claim about the US sending Gaza $50m to buy condoms.

    So it looks like the "condoms in Gaza" were being sent to the province of "Gaza" in...Mozambique. If the Administration doesn't like the idea of helping fight STDs in Africa (like PEPFAR) then they should say so. But they thought you'd think of that other Gaza…

    … Needless to say, the full grant here was clearly not just for condoms. It's for Alcancar, which provides maternal, neonatal, and child health care and also works with the Integrated Family Planning Project in a neighboring province.

    https://x.com/AstorAaron/status/1884724339548774415

    Trump supported the program in 2019.

    It's the wilful stupidity of Trumpistan in a nutshell. No understanding of either geography or health, and obsessed with culture war.

    2 down and just 202 weeks to go.
    Read down the comments.

    The MAGA crew just doubles down and says “so what - Africa should fund itself.”
    If this playground silliness ends up with the Democrats coming storming back in 2 year’ time will the MAGAs be pausing to reflect that maybe they bear some responsibility for the rise of the centre left?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,153

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    Indeed. They’ll say that it’s because these are the most challenging conditions in which they fly outside of a war zone, and that doing it in the middle of nowhere wouldn’t be representative of the many complex operations that run out of the DC area.

    I have a suspicion that Reagan is going to end up closed to either the civvies or the mil as a result of this accident. There’s been so many near misses that an accident was inevitable at some point. It’s right next to the Pentagon and a lot of closed airspace.

    Probably sending all the civvy traffic to Dulles, and improving the transport links from there into the centre of DC - maybe with a John Prescott style ‘bus lane’ - is the way forward. Everyone in DC, along with their families and staff, knows that it could have been them on that plane that went down.
    In the cases of the military, it’s probably a combination of “we’ve done it here for decades” and political advertising.
    There’s also an obvious requirement for military helicopters in the national capital, so it’s a bit more than that.

    It does seem like an accident waiting to happen. A contributory factor seems to have been the use of a shorter, alternate runway for the plane, which is only used about ten times a year.
    The (experienced) helo pilot wouldn’t have been expecting a landing on the heading.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,783

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    I can think of one person responsible for that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086
    edited January 31
    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    The proposals are very sensible, may well result in a net increase in productivity, are not expected to be mandatory, are a continuation of the policy direction under Gove that was advertised as a direct benefit of Brexit, and are consistent with how many sensible farmers have been moving anyway. And they are about promoting biodiversity, after a catastrophic loss over several decades.

    Noticed the lack of pollinating insects in the air during summer, and the relative silence of birdsong in the spring? That’s down to decades of industrial monoculture and overuse of pesticides on unsuitable land. The dead rivers? Those are down to nitrate runoff from livestock farms. It’s not as bad as continental Europe but it’s still a slow moving catastrophe.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,977
    Selebian said:

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    That puts you in a difficult position. You either do not enter the competition, thus proving your prediction that you would not enter the competition correct (and showing that you are a liar and do have predictive ability). Or you do enter the competition, supporting your statement of having a lack of predictive ability, but making your statement above, again, a lie.

    I guess your lack of predictive ability prevented you from foreseeing this difficulty? :wink:
    I knew you were going to say that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,807
    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    It's disgusting, and should and will be reversed.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,398
    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,803

    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    It's disgusting, and should and will be reversed.
    “Disgusting”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    The vast majority of that is unproductive low grade agriculture being rewilded and reforested, which should help with biodiversity and flood control.

    Sounds an excellent plan, thanks for flagging up the good work that the government is doing. It doesn't get enough publicity here.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,977
    Scott_xP said:

    posted 2 days ago

    I knew one of the Jan 6 rioters that Trump pardoned was killed by a policeman.

    I didn't know 3 more are facing charges for kiddie porn

    https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1884678238221287657

    All the best people...
    Killed by a policeman... or killed a policeman?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663

    Scott_xP said:

    posted 2 days ago

    I knew one of the Jan 6 rioters that Trump pardoned was killed by a policeman.

    I didn't know 3 more are facing charges for kiddie porn

    https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1884678238221287657

    All the best people...
    Killed by a policeman... or killed a policeman?
    Shot by a cop after a traffic stop
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    edited January 31
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did. He was mostly just repeating what he’d been briefed, but to go on the political angle before families of the deceased had been informed should have been resisted for at least a day or two. Let the friendly journos run with that angle, but stay above it yourself.

    I really don’t like the politicisation of accident investigations, but this one looks like it was going to be inevitable the more one reads about it. The NTSB are one of very few truly independent agencies in the country, but their report will be studied like none they’ve written since the 9/11 reports - which led to locked cockpit doors and the invasive ‘security’ measures at US airports.

    As I mentioned on the last thread, it appears there’s been serious management issues with air traffic control at Reagan for years. Those who were on duty on Wednesday night are unlikely ever to be declared fit to return to work, and will need years if not decades of counselling. They’ll need to be on suicide watch for a long time, as I’m sure you’d appreciate.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,214

    Selebian said:

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    That puts you in a difficult position. You either do not enter the competition, thus proving your prediction that you would not enter the competition correct (and showing that you are a liar and do have predictive ability). Or you do enter the competition, supporting your statement of having a lack of predictive ability, but making your statement above, again, a lie.

    I guess your lack of predictive ability prevented you from foreseeing this difficulty? :wink:
    I knew you were going to say that.
    I didn't, which is why I haven't entered.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663
    Sandpit said:

    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did.

    One thing Donny is shit scared of is getting the blame. His first instinct is to blame someone else, for anything, everything.

    Like a toddler.

    "I didn't do it. It wasn't me"
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    posted 2 days ago

    I knew one of the Jan 6 rioters that Trump pardoned was killed by a policeman.

    I didn't know 3 more are facing charges for kiddie porn

    https://x.com/TheDailyShow/status/1884678238221287657

    All the best people...
    Killed by a policeman... or killed a policeman?
    Shot by a cop after a traffic stop
    Just a normal day in America.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did. He was mostly just repeating what he’d been briefed, but to go on the political angle before families of the deceased had been informed should have been resisted for at least a day or two. Let the friendly journos run with that angle, but stay above it yourself.

    I really don’t like the politicisation of accident investigations, but this one looks like it was going to be inevitable the more one reads about it. The NTSB are one of very few truly independent agencies in the country, but their report will be studied like none they’ve written since the 9/11 reports - which led to locked cockpit doors and the invasive ‘security’ measures at US airports.

    As I mentioned on the last thread, it appears there’s been serious management issues with air traffic control at Reagan for years. Those who were on duty on Wednesday night are unlikely ever to be declared fit to return to work, and will need years if not decades of counselling. They’ll need to be on suicide watch for a long time, as I’m sure you’d appreciate.
    Really?

    It doesn't appear to be the fault of the ATC. More likely the chopper had sight of the wrong plane.

    The evidence base on PTSD from the military is that short term withdrawal from the front line, debriefing both individually and in small groups of peers then a return to the front is the most effective strategy. It's why there were fewer psychological casualties in WW2 than WW1.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,031
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    It's close to the unit's base at Fort Belvoir and representative of their mission. It's not any more complicated than that. NVG qualifications are a routine occurrence and you can't send aircraft and crew into the middle of nowhere to do them every time. It's just not feasible.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,541
    edited January 31

    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    This is the way to do it:

    image

    Apparently, the crops benefit from windbreaks, so it makes perfect sense to use solar panels for that purpose. The crops grow just as well, and there is still access for machinery.
    That's interesting - and you get the benefit of set-aside too. I suppose it could work even better on a much bigger scale, replacing poplars for example.

    The key thing is to allow farmers (not landowners) to reap the benefits of all this.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,663
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    It's close to the unit's base at Fort Belvoir and representative of their mission. It's not any more complicated than that. NVG qualifications are a routine occurrence and you can't send aircraft and crew into the middle of nowhere to do them every time. It's just not feasible.
    As I understand it, US Army helicopter crews in Germany do their instrument landing training at Frankfurt airport
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
    Obviously it has nothing to do with Ronald Reagan, there’s no-one involved in ATC now who was there four decades ago when the President took the nuclear option to resolve a labour dispute. That option wouldn’t be there now, as the airspace is so much busier and there are a lot of more civvy and a lot fewer mil controllers to take over.

    The allegations are that there has been racial and ‘gender’ profiling in recruitment in recent years, which has led to staff shortages, and in common with most Biden-era agencies there’s plenty of public documents and videos saying that “aviation has a white man problem” and similar sentiments.

    The NTSB investigation isn’t going to go into the hiring policies of the FAA, but it is very much going to go into staffing levels, shift patterns, and work hours at Reagan Airport. There’s been suggestions that ATC have been working 10h days and 6d weeks, which would be totally illegal in pretty much every other Western country.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,130
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    Indeed. They’ll say that it’s because these are the most challenging conditions in which they fly outside of a war zone, and that doing it in the middle of nowhere wouldn’t be representative of the many complex operations that run out of the DC area.

    I have a suspicion that Reagan is going to end up closed to either the civvies or the mil as a result of this accident. There’s been so many near misses that an accident was inevitable at some point. It’s right next to the Pentagon and a lot of closed airspace.

    Probably sending all the civvy traffic to Dulles, and improving the transport links from there into the centre of DC - maybe with a John Prescott style ‘bus lane’ - is the way forward. Everyone in DC, along with their families and staff, knows that it could have been them on that plane that went down.
    I've never liked Reagan, and not just because of the name. If I'm traveling between DC and NYC I'll always take the Acela.
    There is now a link to Dulles on the Metro (Silver line), but it stops at about 20 stations before reaching downtown. They should have built it as a direct fast train.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    edited January 31

    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    This is the way to do it:

    image

    Apparently, the crops benefit from windbreaks, so it makes perfect sense to use solar panels for that purpose. The crops grow just as well, and there is still access for machinery.
    This needs some close examination.

    Much of the land being taken out of production would be low productivity sheepy uplands (makes sense for windfarms), but I don't even see why things like solar and wind necessarily mean taking it out of production - combinations are possible.

    On windbreaks, I've long argued for Ukraine style field margins, which would be excellent.

    There's some interesting stuff in the piece, but the numbers are not very clear.

    Consultation here.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-national-conversation-on-land-use
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    It's close to the unit's base at Fort Belvoir and representative of their mission. It's not any more complicated than that. NVG qualifications are a routine occurrence and you can't send aircraft and crew into the middle of nowhere to do them every time. It's just not feasible.
    Serious question.

    Would it be impossible to do the ratings based from another station say 10 miles away, out of the glide path?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did. He was mostly just repeating what he’d been briefed, but to go on the political angle before families of the deceased had been informed should have been resisted for at least a day or two. Let the friendly journos run with that angle, but stay above it yourself.

    I really don’t like the politicisation of accident investigations, but this one looks like it was going to be inevitable the more one reads about it. The NTSB are one of very few truly independent agencies in the country, but their report will be studied like none they’ve written since the 9/11 reports - which led to locked cockpit doors and the invasive ‘security’ measures at US airports.

    As I mentioned on the last thread, it appears there’s been serious management issues with air traffic control at Reagan for years. Those who were on duty on Wednesday night are unlikely ever to be declared fit to return to work, and will need years if not decades of counselling. They’ll need to be on suicide watch for a long time, as I’m sure you’d appreciate.
    So just a matter of slight mistiming by Trump? Sorry Sandpit but you have gone so far down the rabbit hole that you are starting to become properly delusional. You are better than this.

    Trump lied about changes in FAA hiring, and falsely blamed diversity policies for the crash. It's not just the timing that was disgusting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,185
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
    Obviously it has nothing to do with Ronald Reagan, there’s no-one involved in ATC now who was there four decades ago when the President took the nuclear option to resolve a labour dispute. That option wouldn’t be there now, as the airspace is so much busier and there are a lot of more civvy and a lot fewer mil controllers to take over.

    The allegations are that there has been racial and ‘gender’ profiling in recruitment in recent years, which has led to staff shortages, and in common with most Biden-era agencies there’s plenty of public documents and videos saying that “aviation has a white man problem” and similar sentiments.

    The NTSB investigation isn’t going to go into the hiring policies of the FAA, but it is very much going to go into staffing levels, shift patterns, and work hours at Reagan Airport. There’s been suggestions that ATC have been working 10h days and 6d weeks, which would be totally illegal in pretty much every other Western country.
    Isn't it true that all ATC recruits go though the same training and assessments before entering service?

    And that both aircraft were being flown by white males?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,836
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
    Obviously it has nothing to do with Ronald Reagan, there’s no-one involved in ATC now who was there four decades ago when the President took the nuclear option to resolve a labour dispute. That option wouldn’t be there now, as the airspace is so much busier and there are a lot of more civvy and a lot fewer mil controllers to take over.

    The allegations are that there has been racial and ‘gender’ profiling in recruitment in recent years, which has led to staff shortages, and in common with most Biden-era agencies there’s plenty of public documents and videos saying that “aviation has a white man problem” and similar sentiments.

    The NTSB investigation isn’t going to go into the hiring policies of the FAA, but it is very much going to go into staffing levels, shift patterns, and work hours at Reagan Airport. There’s been suggestions that ATC have been working 10h days and 6d weeks, which would be totally illegal in pretty much every other Western country.
    Isn't it true that all ATC recruits go though the same training and assessments before entering service?

    And that both aircraft were being flown by white males?
    You'd have thought if you have a staff shortage and not enough women/minorities applying for the jobs, then advertising for those kinds of people to apply for jobs is a good thing?
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,681
    edited January 31
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
    Obviously it has nothing to do with Ronald Reagan, there’s no-one involved in ATC now who was there four decades ago when the President took the nuclear option to resolve a labour dispute. That option wouldn’t be there now, as the airspace is so much busier and there are a lot of more civvy and a lot fewer mil controllers to take over.

    The allegations are that there has been racial and ‘gender’ profiling in recruitment in recent years, which has led to staff shortages, and in common with most Biden-era agencies there’s plenty of public documents and videos saying that “aviation has a white man problem” and similar sentiments.

    The NTSB investigation isn’t going to go into the hiring policies of the FAA, but it is very much going to go into staffing levels, shift patterns, and work hours at Reagan Airport. There’s been suggestions that ATC have been working 10h days and 6d weeks, which would be totally illegal in pretty much every other Western country.
    Isn't it true that all ATC recruits go though the same training and assessments before entering service?

    And that both aircraft were being flown by white males?
    I wonder if Trump's reaction would have been the same if either of the aircraft were being flown by a woman or someone of colour.

    Edit: Actually, no I don't wonder. We all know, don't we.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,031
    MattW said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    The one that baffles me is why military were doing their recertification flights on the equivalent of The Thames at Chiswick (?).
    It's close to the unit's base at Fort Belvoir and representative of their mission. It's not any more complicated than that. NVG qualifications are a routine occurrence and you can't send aircraft and crew into the middle of nowhere to do them every time. It's just not feasible.
    Serious question.

    Would it be impossible to do the ratings based from another station say 10 miles away, out of the glide path?
    Dunno. But ultimately you have to train like you fight and this unit's mission is VIP movements in the DC area.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,106

    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    This is the way to do it:

    image

    Apparently, the crops benefit from windbreaks, so it makes perfect sense to use solar panels for that purpose. The crops grow just as well, and there is still access for machinery.
    I guess the panels are cheap enough now that it's fine to have them in a suboptimal orientation, particularly if that means you can also use the land for agriculture.

    My only concern is that this could restrict a new generation of Theresa Mays from running through farmers' fields - or at least, limit them to a single direction :disappointed:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did. He was mostly just repeating what he’d been briefed, but to go on the political angle before families of the deceased had been informed should have been resisted for at least a day or two. Let the friendly journos run with that angle, but stay above it yourself.

    I really don’t like the politicisation of accident investigations, but this one looks like it was going to be inevitable the more one reads about it. The NTSB are one of very few truly independent agencies in the country, but their report will be studied like none they’ve written since the 9/11 reports - which led to locked cockpit doors and the invasive ‘security’ measures at US airports.

    As I mentioned on the last thread, it appears there’s been serious management issues with air traffic control at Reagan for years. Those who were on duty on Wednesday night are unlikely ever to be declared fit to return to work, and will need years if not decades of counselling. They’ll need to be on suicide watch for a long time, as I’m sure you’d appreciate.
    Really?

    It doesn't appear to be the fault of the ATC. More likely the chopper had sight of the wrong plane.

    The evidence base on PTSD from the military is that short term withdrawal from the front line, debriefing both individually and in small groups of peers then a return to the front is the most effective strategy. It's why there were fewer psychological casualties in WW2 than WW1.
    That’s a response I wasn’t expecting.

    I wonder if the civvies can learn from the military in this regard, in terms of PTSD treatment?

    I know that in the event of minor incidents and accidents, “get back on the horse” is the right approach, but certainly within the aviation industry there’s a long history of suicide from accident survivors who saw themselves are responsible for the deaths of others, as pilots, engineers, ATC etc.

    As to this accident, the non-human factors are going to involve what view the ATC had of the two aircraft on their screens.
    A Congressman posted this video yesterday, which I think is a computer simulation of the accident rather than an actual replay of the recording. https://x.com/repthomasmassie/status/1885017091964637558. (Ignore his commentary, the screens are deliberately decluttered to improve clarity).
    The flashing red “CA”, however, would be accompanied by an alarm to the controller. It stands for collision alert, or collision avoidance. It’s not impossible that, because of the nature of the airport, that these alerts had become routine and therefore ignored, which would be a major systems factor in the accident.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,282
    @Benpointer Completion Entry (First time I've attempted this!)

    1) Lab 29, Con 26, Ref 33, LD 16
    2) Lab 20, Con 18, Ref 22, LD 10
    3) 7
    4) 1
    5) 4
    6) 3 (is this just full cabinet members, or including those who attend cabinet)
    7) 150
    8) 2.7%
    9) £135bn
    10) 0.3%
    11) 3.8%
    12) 0.75%
    13) 90
    14) 2-2 (literally no knowledge on that one!)


  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,086
    edited January 31
    Selebian said:

    Taz said:

    A tenth of British Farmland to be repurposed for net zero

    Solar farms, tree planting and wildlife habitats to replace food production.

    Meanwhile from 2022 to 2032 our population will grow by 5 Million people.

    ‘Brutal Budget has hurt farming’
    Tom Bradshaw, president of the NFU, said it was “imperative this framework does not further restrict farmers’ ability to produce the nation’s food”.
    “Over the past 18 months, the UK farming industry has taken a battering,” he said. “Volatile input costs, commodity prices on the floor in some sectors, a reduction in direct payments, one of the wettest periods in decades, and a brutal Budget delivered by this Government. All have left their mark and have put homegrown food production under serious pressure.”
    The Government believes food production can be largely maintained at current levels by focusing on removing only the least productive land. About 20 per cent of England’s farmed land produces just 3 per cent of total calories, in areas where subsidies have historically accounted for 90 per cent of farm incomes.


    https://archive.ph/CXjt0

    This is the way to do it:

    image

    Apparently, the crops benefit from windbreaks, so it makes perfect sense to use solar panels for that purpose. The crops grow just as well, and there is still access for machinery.
    I guess the panels are cheap enough now that it's fine to have them in a suboptimal orientation, particularly if that means you can also use the land for agriculture.

    My only concern is that this could restrict a new generation of Theresa Mays from running through farmers' fields - or at least, limit them to a single direction :disappointed:
    Vineyards and orchards already present that problem to budding Theresas.

    Interestingly the quote I’ve just got for solar panels in France has them on a West facing roof, and the modelled output is only about 10% less than full South.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,233
    May cause slight extra blood pressure for some.

    Cycling Mikey in London with French TV.

    In France rules on filtering in traffic are different (and they keep changing their minds), and rules are different around Dashcams.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnKcP2UGJdw
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
    Obviously it has nothing to do with Ronald Reagan, there’s no-one involved in ATC now who was there four decades ago when the President took the nuclear option to resolve a labour dispute. That option wouldn’t be there now, as the airspace is so much busier and there are a lot of more civvy and a lot fewer mil controllers to take over.

    The allegations are that there has been racial and ‘gender’ profiling in recruitment in recent years, which has led to staff shortages, and in common with most Biden-era agencies there’s plenty of public documents and videos saying that “aviation has a white man problem” and similar sentiments.

    The NTSB investigation isn’t going to go into the hiring policies of the FAA, but it is very much going to go into staffing levels, shift patterns, and work hours at Reagan Airport. There’s been suggestions that ATC have been working 10h days and 6d weeks, which would be totally illegal in pretty much every other Western country.
    Isn't it true that all ATC recruits go though the same training and assessments before entering service?

    And that both aircraft were being flown by white males?
    Absolutely you don’t get to be an active ATC without passing all the exams and being certified for your position (same as a medical specialism or an aircraft type rating, ATC need to be certified for the specific piece of airspace they are working)

    The political angle is that ATC couldn’t recruit enough people, because the recruiters wanted to have their employees “represent the makeup of the population”, or some such woke DEI bollocks. There are reports of potential recruits being turned down “because they were white men”. (Similar to stories around university admission in the US). So ATC ended up understaffed as they’re couldn’t find enough “minorities” who both applied, met the appliacation standard, and completed the course.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,614
    Selebian said:

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    Ditto. For me, it's not potential embarrassment at failing or coming bottom; it's the fact that there is so much guesswork involved that, if I were to 'win', it would be a pure fluke, and I would feel pretty bad that my WAGs were in any way accurate. 'Winning' would mean nothing, as it said nothing about my ability to predict, just to guess.

    Having said that thanks to @Benpointer for organising it.
    Why would you feel bad about your wives and girlfriends being accurate? I never had you down as a misogynist :wink:
    If I had wives (plural) *and* girlfriends, then any competition entry would be *way* down my list of priorities. Number one would be preventing them all from finding out about each other... :)
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,741

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    You cannot be any worse than Big John Owls who ended up with zero in the last competition.
    I'm sure I could contrive a negative score and, perhaps, some kind of sporting injury.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,202
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did. He was mostly just repeating what he’d been briefed, but to go on the political angle before families of the deceased had been informed should have been resisted for at least a day or two. Let the friendly journos run with that angle, but stay above it yourself.

    I really don’t like the politicisation of accident investigations, but this one looks like it was going to be inevitable the more one reads about it. The NTSB are one of very few truly independent agencies in the country, but their report will be studied like none they’ve written since the 9/11 reports - which led to locked cockpit doors and the invasive ‘security’ measures at US airports.

    As I mentioned on the last thread, it appears there’s been serious management issues with air traffic control at Reagan for years. Those who were on duty on Wednesday night are unlikely ever to be declared fit to return to work, and will need years if not decades of counselling. They’ll need to be on suicide watch for a long time, as I’m sure you’d appreciate.
    Really?

    It doesn't appear to be the fault of the ATC. More likely the chopper had sight of the wrong plane.

    The evidence base on PTSD from the military is that short term withdrawal from the front line, debriefing both individually and in small groups of peers then a return to the front is the most effective strategy. It's why there were fewer psychological casualties in WW2 than WW1.
    That’s a response I wasn’t expecting.

    I wonder if the civvies can learn from the military in this regard, in terms of PTSD treatment?

    I know that in the event of minor incidents and accidents, “get back on the horse” is the right approach, but certainly within the aviation industry there’s a long history of suicide from accident survivors who saw themselves are responsible for the deaths of others, as pilots, engineers, ATC etc.

    As to this accident, the non-human factors are going to involve what view the ATC had of the two aircraft on their screens.
    A Congressman posted this video yesterday, which I think is a computer simulation of the accident rather than an actual replay of the recording. https://x.com/repthomasmassie/status/1885017091964637558. (Ignore his commentary, the screens are deliberately decluttered to improve clarity).
    The flashing red “CA”, however, would be accompanied by an alarm to the controller. It stands for collision alert, or collision avoidance. It’s not impossible that, because of the nature of the airport, that these alerts had become routine and therefore ignored, which would be a major systems factor in the accident.
    Yes, there has been a lot of work, particularly in the military about effective treatment about PTSD, it's well summarised here:

    https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:3e2c0fad-953c-4af8-8ded-ab56d7d7e3de

    The key change is to recognise combat exhaustion, treat near the front, treat with peers and return to duty fairly rapidly. Long term withdrawal to more distant locations away from unit peers breaks unit cohesion and increases feelings of guilt and letting comrades down. In modern practice exhaustion is normalised rather than medicalised and pathologised.

    The NHS took a similar approach during the peaks of covid, with my hospital setting up "Staff wellbeing" areas (with appropriate infection control) where staff could formally and informally debrief, eat healthily, talk through what they had seen etc. The areas where these were set up kept stress related absences to a minimum.
    Good morning, everyone.

    That's very interesting.

    In psychology there's long been a drive to pathologise every little personality quirk into a syndrome or condition, so it's reassuring to see something move the other way.
  • Selebian said:

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    Ditto. For me, it's not potential embarrassment at failing or coming bottom; it's the fact that there is so much guesswork involved that, if I were to 'win', it would be a pure fluke, and I would feel pretty bad that my WAGs were in any way accurate. 'Winning' would mean nothing, as it said nothing about my ability to predict, just to guess.

    Having said that thanks to @Benpointer for organising it.
    Why would you feel bad about your wives and girlfriends being accurate? I never had you down as a misogynist :wink:
    If I had wives (plural) *and* girlfriends, then any competition entry would be *way* down my list of priorities. Number one would be preventing them all from finding out about each other... :)
    Pro tip, always call them darling or sweetheart.

    Don’t be a hero and call them by their name because inevitability one day you’ll call them the wrong name and that’s when it all unravels.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    You cannot be any worse than Big John Owls who ended up with zero in the last competition.
    I'm sure I could contrive a negative score and, perhaps, some kind of sporting injury.
    I remember when papers used to run Fantasy League competitions there were people who aimed to get the lowest possible score and saw it as a badge of honour on a par with those who got high scores.
  • Competition

    1 - Lab 30, Con 27, Ref 33, LD 20
    2 - Lab 21, Con 18, Ref 22, LD 10
    3 - 8
    4 - 2
    5 - 1
    6 - 3
    7 - 155
    8 - 3%
    9 - £115bn
    10 - 0.8%
    11 - 6%
    12 - -0.3%
    13 - 250
    14 - 0-5 (Oz win all)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,021
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Black boxes have been recovered from the aircraft involved in the accident yesterday. They’re likely to give investigators an idea of the beginning of the accident sequence and the relative positions of the two aircraft as they met each other.

    Also starting to see names released of the victims, including the crews of both aircraft. A number of those on board were returning from an ice-skating competition in Kansas, including teens and young adults in an elite Washington-based training group.

    RIP.

    It is horrid - extremely sad for the victims' families.

    I don't quite know why there is quite so much news and discussion about it though.
    Because it’s Washington DC, and because it’s a mid-air between a civvy and a mil aircraft.

    It’s an accident between two perfectly serviceable aircraft, that should quite simply never happen. The investigation is going to be 99% human factors, and we already have whistleblowers and journalists saying that Reagan Airport has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

    Hundreds of political journalists have witnessed the accident and its aftermath first hand, and tens of thousands of the DC ‘blob’ have had their travel plans for the weekend ruined.

    The UK equivalent would be a plane heading to LCY crashing into the Thames half a mile from Parliament, with 60 people all heading for Westminster on board.

    If it had been a plane that went down after an engine failure in the middle of a field somewhere in Appalachia, it would have dropped off the news already.
    Also newsworthy were Trump's crass comments afterwards.

    Though no doubt some fresh new folly today will supersede them.
    Yes the President needed to stick to the sombre mood for much longer than he did. He was mostly just repeating what he’d been briefed, but to go on the political angle before families of the deceased had been informed should have been resisted for at least a day or two. Let the friendly journos run with that angle, but stay above it yourself.

    I really don’t like the politicisation of accident investigations, but this one looks like it was going to be inevitable the more one reads about it. The NTSB are one of very few truly independent agencies in the country, but their report will be studied like none they’ve written since the 9/11 reports - which led to locked cockpit doors and the invasive ‘security’ measures at US airports.

    As I mentioned on the last thread, it appears there’s been serious management issues with air traffic control at Reagan for years. Those who were on duty on Wednesday night are unlikely ever to be declared fit to return to work, and will need years if not decades of counselling. They’ll need to be on suicide watch for a long time, as I’m sure you’d appreciate.
    Really?

    It doesn't appear to be the fault of the ATC. More likely the chopper had sight of the wrong plane.

    The evidence base on PTSD from the military is that short term withdrawal from the front line, debriefing both individually and in small groups of peers then a return to the front is the most effective strategy. It's why there were fewer psychological casualties in WW2 than WW1.
    That’s a response I wasn’t expecting.

    I wonder if the civvies can learn from the military in this regard, in terms of PTSD treatment?

    I know that in the event of minor incidents and accidents, “get back on the horse” is the right approach, but certainly within the aviation industry there’s a long history of suicide from accident survivors who saw themselves are responsible for the deaths of others, as pilots, engineers, ATC etc.

    As to this accident, the non-human factors are going to involve what view the ATC had of the two aircraft on their screens.
    A Congressman posted this video yesterday, which I think is a computer simulation of the accident rather than an actual replay of the recording. https://x.com/repthomasmassie/status/1885017091964637558. (Ignore his commentary, the screens are deliberately decluttered to improve clarity).
    The flashing red “CA”, however, would be accompanied by an alarm to the controller. It stands for collision alert, or collision avoidance. It’s not impossible that, because of the nature of the airport, that these alerts had become routine and therefore ignored, which would be a major systems factor in the accident.
    Yes, there has been a lot of work, particularly in the military about effective treatment about PTSD, it's well summarised here:

    https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:3e2c0fad-953c-4af8-8ded-ab56d7d7e3de

    The key change is to recognise combat exhaustion, treat near the front, treat with peers and return to duty fairly rapidly. Long term withdrawal to more distant locations away from unit peers breaks unit cohesion and increases feelings of guilt and letting comrades down. In modern practice exhaustion is normalised rather than medicalised and pathologised.

    The NHS took a similar approach during the peaks of covid, with my hospital setting up "Staff wellbeing" areas (with appropriate infection control) where staff could formally and informally debrief, eat healthily, talk through what they had seen etc. The areas where these were set up kept stress related absences to a minimum.
    That sounds like a good read, thanks!

    Most of my recent education on PTSD has been from the University of Joe Rogan, which is centered around a drug called Ibogaine, something which appears to be working in clinical studies in Mexico but is currently banned in the US.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,539
    Imagine being compared unfavourably to Suella Braverman - https://www.thetimes.com/article/3b395499-3ff6-4ddb-b919-9150f8f009b5?shareToken=a5dd7aa861dc3734f2e19bec765d8ad8

    "Late last year Hermer strengthened the guidance on legal risk, changing it to say government lawyers must advise ministers that policies are unlawful if they believe an argument could not be properly put forward in court. This was not previously the case. The new guidance states that they should only as a last resort put forward legal arguments that are ­legitimate but which have a high risk of failing

    In doing so he reversed changes introduced by Suella Braverman, the former attorney-general, who relaxed the guidance amid concerns that lawyers had taken a “computer says no” approach and “needlessly” hampered policies."

    It's pretty fucking damning and Starmer needs to get rid.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,614
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    Oh, so this is why it got so political so quickly.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1884889137972466142

    The number of flight slots at Reagan airport actually gets discussed by the US Senate, with of course Senators from almost everywhere wanting more of them to the closest airport to their offices.

    The UK equivalent would be the MPs demanding one flight a minute into LCY, from every little regional airport in a country with no motorways and no railway lines. Because they all think LHR is too far away.

    Also, Republican politics and what happened to the ATCs. Reagan isn't in the current mix just because he has the airport named after him. Some people on Pprune are of the view that US ATC never recovered from the mass sackings at that time - culture and staffing levels changed. IANAE though.
    Obviously it has nothing to do with Ronald Reagan, there’s no-one involved in ATC now who was there four decades ago when the President took the nuclear option to resolve a labour dispute. That option wouldn’t be there now, as the airspace is so much busier and there are a lot of more civvy and a lot fewer mil controllers to take over.

    The allegations are that there has been racial and ‘gender’ profiling in recruitment in recent years, which has led to staff shortages, and in common with most Biden-era agencies there’s plenty of public documents and videos saying that “aviation has a white man problem” and similar sentiments.

    The NTSB investigation isn’t going to go into the hiring policies of the FAA, but it is very much going to go into staffing levels, shift patterns, and work hours at Reagan Airport. There’s been suggestions that ATC have been working 10h days and 6d weeks, which would be totally illegal in pretty much every other Western country.
    Isn't it true that all ATC recruits go though the same training and assessments before entering service?

    And that both aircraft were being flown by white males?
    Absolutely you don’t get to be an active ATC without passing all the exams and being certified for your position (same as a medical specialism or an aircraft type rating, ATC need to be certified for the specific piece of airspace they are working)

    The political angle is that ATC couldn’t recruit enough people, because the recruiters wanted to have their employees “represent the makeup of the population”, or some such woke DEI bollocks. There are reports of potential recruits being turned down “because they were white men”. (Similar to stories around university admission in the US). So ATC ended up understaffed as they’re couldn’t find enough “minorities” who both applied, met the appliacation standard, and completed the course.
    Is there any evidence so far that the controllers, let alone the number of controllers on duty, were a causal factor in this incident?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,741

    mwadams said:

    A reminder, I am not entering the competition to give other people a chance of winning.

    I am not entering the competition due to lack of predictive ability.
    Ditto. For me, it's not potential embarrassment at failing or coming bottom; it's the fact that there is so much guesswork involved that, if I were to 'win', it would be a pure fluke, and I would feel pretty bad that my WAGs were in any way accurate. 'Winning' would mean nothing, as it said nothing about my ability to predict, just to guess.

    Having said that thanks to @Benpointer for organising it.
    Seconding the thanks to @benpointer. The prediction competition is a highlight of the year.
This discussion has been closed.