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Why two plus two may not add up to four – politicalbetting.com

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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,745

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    You over state the case. We haven't suddenly switched to zero foreign students. Indeed some courses are very successfully recruiting overseas.

    There is a huge problem and its yet another for Starmer's government to tackle. What is University for? Is it about increasing skills and knowledge of the nation? Is it keeping people of the unemployed lists? Is it pointless?

    How is it paid for and does that money give value for money?
    https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/latest/news/new-report-reveals-key-role-universities

    “The latest figures show the UK higher education sector’s teaching, research and innovation activities had an economic impact of £158 billion. When combined with previous London Economics analysis of the direct spending by the sector and the economic benefit of international students, the total impact across UK HE in 2021/22 was £265 billion. Comparing against the public cost of these activities, London Economics found a cost to benefit ratio of 14 to 1. This means for every £1 of public money invested into UK universities, £14 of economic benefit is generated.”

    Although this is from Universities UK.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,340
    geoffw said:

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    That is growth, just what our government wants

    Also a boost to the balance of payments, which some of the economically illiterate on here are obsessed about.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 12,745
    carnforth said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    Perhaps the burden of family migration negates the benefit of overseas students’ fees.

    And, in any event, the number of overseas students is still huge.

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    I remember when aiming for a balance of trade surplus with Johnny Foreigner nations was regarded as a positive. Now it's "don't come over here with your foreign money".
    If you pay £20000 a year in fees, but bring two children (cost of schooling £15000) you've not really bought in much money. The University got £20000, but the country didn't. Hence the new rules.
    Very, very few students brought in two children, however.
  • Evening PB.

    Another day, another day of lunacy on Musk's X. "Jewish Bolsheviks murdered 60 million people" gets 1.4 million views.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    edited January 28
    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an ego as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    Perhaps the burden of family migration negates the benefit of overseas students’ fees.

    And, in any event, the number of overseas students is still huge.

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    I remember when aiming for a balance of trade surplus with Johnny Foreigner nations was regarded as a positive. Now it's "don't come over here with your foreign money".
    Various governments didn’t get sign off from the British public about population growth from emigration of serious fractions of a percent per year.

    That’s the problem of democracy.

    For myself I don’t mind population growth of even 5% a year. But I will insist on building 10 million homes a year, if that’s how you want to roll it. And hospitals. And roads. And if you don’t like that kind of building rate - move to the Chilean desert.

    We haven't got room for that number, if that is a trend that continues Farage PM with either a Reform majority or propped up by the Tories is inevitable
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,835
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    France has not been as wholly craptacular at keeping up their armed forces as we have, but let's not pretend that they could hold Greenland against a US invasion, because that's daft.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,506
    On topic, whilst there are surely some disgruntled former Tories making a probably temporary protest by voting Reform, in 2019 Euro-elections style, those are heavily outnumbered by both those backing Reform as some sort of new and (somehow) ‘ unestablishment’ SDP-redux ‘fresh politics’ party (just as many in the 1980s backed the SDP’s mostly ex-Labour machine retreads as somehow fresh on the scene) and those seeing Reform as a NOTA route to break the whole system. Those latter two groups won’t be wanting to vote for the Tories instead in any sort of hurry.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,488
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,141

    carnforth said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    Perhaps the burden of family migration negates the benefit of overseas students’ fees.

    And, in any event, the number of overseas students is still huge.

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    I remember when aiming for a balance of trade surplus with Johnny Foreigner nations was regarded as a positive. Now it's "don't come over here with your foreign money".
    If you pay £20000 a year in fees, but bring two children (cost of schooling £15000) you've not really bought in much money. The University got £20000, but the country didn't. Hence the new rules.
    Very, very few students brought in two children, however.
    True but he's managed to throw some crap into the argument in a way that is difficult to find the evidence or scale of the supposed problem...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    France has not been as wholly craptacular at keeping up their armed forces as we have, but let's not pretend that they could hold Greenland against a US invasion, because that's daft.
    American TV viewers wouldn't like the casualties though
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,835
    ...

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Not as long as you want France to win.
    Non deadly but humiliating national pride destroying losses for both parties would work for me.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,835
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    France has not been as wholly craptacular at keeping up their armed forces as we have, but let's not pretend that they could hold Greenland against a US invasion, because that's daft.
    American TV viewers wouldn't like the casualties though
    I wouldn't imagine too many of those the rate the French usually run away.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    Evening PB.

    Another day, another day of lunacy on Musk's X. "Jewish Bolsheviks murdered 60 million people" gets 1.4 million views.

    This is not going to end well, enjoy normalcy whilst we can.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445
    viewcode said:

    The RedLetterMedia review of Star Trek: Section 31 is up. Their reaction is unfortunately similar to mine: indifference. It's not like it's bad or good, it's just that nobody was interested in the spinoff and it's...meh? Rather sad, really... :(

    Anyway, enjoy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIp8vQxDS-M

    Well, that was funereal. Am glum now :(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445

    Evening PB.

    Another day, another day of lunacy on Musk's X. "Jewish Bolsheviks murdered 60 million people" gets 1.4 million views.

    I cannot possibly google that, I'm on the work laptop. Is that an actual tweet????
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Yes it’s weirdly and obviously wrong. France went through decades of neurosis about its low population compared to the UK and Germany. It’s one of the recent drivers of modern history. Illiterate Guardian twits

    France should be happy with a lower population. It’s one thing that makes France a nicer place to be. Sense of space. Room to breathe. Britain is chocka by contrast - which has real world economic impacts as infrastructure gets ever harder to complete (as someone always lives in the way)
    There are plenty of parts of the UK that are desolate, like in most countries. It's just that people don't want to live in those places.
    French desolation often means empty places like Lozere and Aveyron. Which are often beautiful and sunny - not the Lancashire moors

    However there is maybe nowhere in France with the noomy sublimity of the Highlands and Islands
    Kerguelen?
    In that case I counter with the Antarctic Peninsula - which is part of the British Antarctic territory and is - without exaggerating - the most spectacularly sublime place on earth. I know because I’ve been there and I almost died there doing Antarctic kayaking
    You and me and my wife but we didn't do Antarctic kayaking but lots of landings on ribs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    France has not been as wholly craptacular at keeping up their armed forces as we have, but let's not pretend that they could hold Greenland against a US invasion, because that's daft.
    American TV viewers wouldn't like the casualties though
    I wouldn't imagine too many of those the rate the French usually run away.
    They would have the Danish Vikings with them
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,493
    HYUFD said:
    Is it about how becoming an MP will look good on a CV for a real career?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Yes it’s weirdly and obviously wrong. France went through decades of neurosis about its low population compared to the UK and Germany. It’s one of the recent drivers of modern history. Illiterate Guardian twits

    France should be happy with a lower population. It’s one thing that makes France a nicer place to be. Sense of space. Room to breathe. Britain is chocka by contrast - which has real world economic impacts as infrastructure gets ever harder to complete (as someone always lives in the way)
    There are plenty of parts of the UK that are desolate, like in most countries. It's just that people don't want to live in those places.
    French desolation often means empty places like Lozere and Aveyron. Which are often beautiful and sunny - not the Lancashire moors

    However there is maybe nowhere in France with the noomy sublimity of the Highlands and Islands
    Kerguelen?
    In that case I counter with the Antarctic Peninsula - which is part of the British Antarctic territory and is - without exaggerating - the most spectacularly sublime place on earth. I know because I’ve been there and I almost died there doing Antarctic kayaking
    You and me and my wife but we didn't do Antarctic kayaking but lots of landings on ribs
    Isn’t it incredible? I have never been so utterly bewitched by a simple “landscape”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    IanB2 said:

    On topic, whilst there are surely some disgruntled former Tories making a probably temporary protest by voting Reform, in 2019 Euro-elections style, those are heavily outnumbered by both those backing Reform as some sort of new and (somehow) ‘ unestablishment’ SDP-redux ‘fresh politics’ party (just as many in the 1980s backed the SDP’s mostly ex-Labour machine retreads as somehow fresh on the scene) and those seeing Reform as a NOTA route to break the whole system. Those latter two groups won’t be wanting to vote for the Tories instead in any sort of hurry.

    No but we have had a few polls suggesting a Reform and Tory government could get a majority, even if most suggest a Labour or LD or small majority Labour government.

    So the Tories could still in theory get back into government even with Reform on 20%+, just not a majority Conservative government again
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,901

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    It's a mad world, my masters. Part 2

    Elon in action: https://x.com/iam_smx/status/1883977770709258287
    It's a mad world, my masters. Part 3

    Ambassador Caroline Kennedy on cousin RFK, Jr.

    https://x.com/JBKSchlossberg/status/1884294384474046900
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
  • viewcode said:

    Evening PB.

    Another day, another day of lunacy on Musk's X. "Jewish Bolsheviks murdered 60 million people" gets 1.4 million views.

    I cannot possibly google that, I'm on the work laptop. Is that an actual tweet????
    Yup, and a very long thread to follow it, too.

    Thousands of very enthusiastic tweets.

    https://x.com/LetsGoBrando45/status/1883993353630670944

    Awful.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    edited January 28
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,920
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    France has not been as wholly craptacular at keeping up their armed forces as we have, but let's not pretend that they could hold Greenland against a US invasion, because that's daft.
    American TV viewers wouldn't like the casualties though
    I think if Trump takes the US into a war with France there'll be a price to pay in the mid-terms.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,488
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    Perhaps the burden of family migration negates the benefit of overseas students’ fees.

    And, in any event, the number of overseas students is still huge.

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    I remember when aiming for a balance of trade surplus with Johnny Foreigner nations was regarded as a positive. Now it's "don't come over here with your foreign money".
    Various governments didn’t get sign off from the British public about population growth from emigration of serious fractions of a percent per year.

    That’s the problem of democracy.

    For myself I don’t mind population growth of even 5% a year. But I will insist on building 10 million homes a year, if that’s how you want to roll it. And hospitals. And roads. And if you don’t like that kind of building rate - move to the Chilean desert.

    How would you feel about a majority Muslim UK? With homosexuality illegal again? Blasphemy laws on the statute books? Sharia law enforced by the state?

    Presumably you don’t want that (or maybe you do). At which point you have to admit that this is not just about numbers. It is about the vast cultural change that comes with big numbers
    Are you seeing the Thames foaming with much blood?
    Semen?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
    I think I speak for all of PB when I say: all praise Donald Trump

    We in the west need him to win these culture wars. He is fighting for our freedom. Fight Fight Fight!!!

    I love him

    Goodnight from The Goon, Burma
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,835

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    Perhaps the burden of family migration negates the benefit of overseas students’ fees.

    And, in any event, the number of overseas students is still huge.

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    I remember when aiming for a balance of trade surplus with Johnny Foreigner nations was regarded as a positive. Now it's "don't come over here with your foreign money".
    Various governments didn’t get sign off from the British public about population growth from emigration of serious fractions of a percent per year.

    That’s the problem of democracy.

    For myself I don’t mind population growth of even 5% a year. But I will insist on building 10 million homes a year, if that’s how you want to roll it. And hospitals. And roads. And if you don’t like that kind of building rate - move to the Chilean desert.

    How would you feel about a majority Muslim UK? With homosexuality illegal again? Blasphemy laws on the statute books? Sharia law enforced by the state?

    Presumably you don’t want that (or maybe you do). At which point you have to admit that this is not just about numbers. It is about the vast cultural change that comes with big numbers
    Are you seeing the Thames foaming with much blood?
    Semen?
    Kind offer but no thanks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,488
    OK, serious question.

    In the third Harry Potter book, Hermione gets a time turner to enable her to do more subjects (and also so Harry can do the Petronas charm and fight off the Dementers.)

    WHY DOES NO-ONE AT ANY POINT THINK: HMMMM.... THIS TIME TRAVEL LARK WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IN THE FIGHT AGAINST VOLDEMORT???
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War

    The Quasi-War[a] was an undeclared war from 1798 to 1800 between the United States and the French First Republic. It was fought almost entirely at sea, primarily in the Caribbean and off the East Coast of the United States, with minor actions in the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch

    Operation Torch (8–16 November 1942) was an Allied invasion of French North Africa during the Second World War
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,448
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Nah.

    Half the time (or maybe a bit less) Trump says something bonkers and means it.

    The other half of the time he is trolling on an intercontinental scale.

    The difficulty is working out which is which.

    On this one if France, Denmark and others play hardball I think they'll probably win inasmuch as Trump won't start a war.

    I wouldn't bet against the sanctions/bribery/misinformation approach winning over Greenlanders, though.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,615
    rcs1000 said:

    OK, serious question.

    In the third Harry Potter book, Hermione gets a time turner to enable her to do more subjects (and also so Harry can do the Petronas charm and fight off the Dementers.)

    WHY DOES NO-ONE AT ANY POINT THINK: HMMMM.... THIS TIME TRAVEL LARK WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IN THE FIGHT AGAINST VOLDEMORT???

    https://www.harrypotter.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/time-turner
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,374
    rcs1000 said:

    OK, serious question.

    In the third Harry Potter book, Hermione gets a time turner to enable her to do more subjects (and also so Harry can do the Petronas charm and fight off the Dementers.)

    WHY DOES NO-ONE AT ANY POINT THINK: HMMMM.... THIS TIME TRAVEL LARK WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IN THE FIGHT AGAINST VOLDEMORT???

    I think the idea was while you could go into the past and 'bootstrap' certain events (for example, Harry saving his past self from the dementors), you can't actually change it. I think time travel in the original books was meant to be like the film Twelve Monkeys and be compliant with the Grandfather Paradox.
    That was before Cursed Child happened, though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    What do Britons think of the renaming of the HMS Agincourt to HMS Achilles, described by Grant Shapps as "woke nonsense"

    Don't care: 40%
    Don't know: 32%
    Wrong to change: 23%
    Right to change: 6%

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1884287686770581649
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,166
    HYUFD said:

    What do Britons think of the renaming of the HMS Agincourt to HMS Achilles, described by Grant Shapps as "woke nonsense"

    Don't care: 40%
    Don't know: 32%
    Wrong to change: 23%
    Right to change: 6%

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1884287686770581649

    He sounds a bit of a heel
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,598
    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War

    The Quasi-War[a] was an undeclared war from 1798 to 1800 between the United States and the French First Republic. It was fought almost entirely at sea, primarily in the Caribbean and off the East Coast of the United States, with minor actions in the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch

    Operation Torch (8–16 November 1942) was an Allied invasion of French North Africa during the Second World War
    'was an undeclared war'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    HYUFD said:

    What do Britons think of the renaming of the HMS Agincourt to HMS Achilles, described by Grant Shapps as "woke nonsense"

    Don't care: 40%
    Don't know: 32%
    Wrong to change: 23%
    Right to change: 6%

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1884287686770581649

    What do Britons think of the renaming of Grant Shapps to Michael Green, described by noneoftheabove as "nonsensical whatever he calls himself"

    Don't care: 40%
    Don't know: 32%
    Wrong to change: 23%
    Right to change: 6%

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1884287686770581649
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,445

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    Perhaps the burden of family migration negates the benefit of overseas students’ fees.

    And, in any event, the number of overseas students is still huge.

    a

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.
    "Killed that golden goose" is rather relative. Yes, 2024 had 16% fewer foreign students than 2023, but it's still 40% higher than, say, 2015.

    Certain universities are addicted to ever increasing numbers of foreign students.
    I remember when aiming for a balance of trade surplus with Johnny Foreigner nations was regarded as a positive. Now it's "don't come over here with your foreign money".
    Various governments didn’t get sign off from the British public about population growth from emigration of serious fractions of a percent per year.

    That’s the problem of democracy.

    For myself I don’t mind population growth of even 5% a year. But I will insist on building 10 million homes a year, if that’s how you want to roll it. And hospitals. And roads. And if you don’t like that kind of building rate - move to the Chilean desert.

    How would you feel about a majority Muslim UK? With homosexuality illegal again? Blasphemy laws on the statute books? Sharia law enforced by the state?

    Presumably you don’t want that (or maybe you do). At which point you have to admit that this is not just about numbers. It is about the vast cultural change that comes with big numbers
    Are you seeing the Thames foaming with much blood?
    Semen?
    Kind offer but no thanks.
    Biscuits then.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
    I think I speak for all of PB when I say: all praise Donald Trump

    We in the west need him to win these culture wars. He is fighting for our freedom. Fight Fight Fight!!!

    I love him

    Goodnight from The Goon, Burma
    In what way is bullying Denmark a part of the culture wars?

    'Cause here's the thing that pisses me off. If the EU had bullied countries the way that the US currently is, then people would be castigating them.

    But because it's Donald Trump, and he's against woke, then it's OK.

    No, it's not fucking OK. It's still fucking shitty behaviour.
    Those who love chaos and drama are a significant part of the social fabric. Until the chaos and drama hurts them of course.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,488
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    Merged rather than closed, no?
    Nominally merged but in practice, closed. Each small college was merged with a larger one, at the site of the larger one, with all the staff of the larger one and some from the smaller one. There would be a new name, like Queen Mary & Westfield or Royal Holloway and Bedford or the UCL & Royal Free medical school, but now the names have been changed back.

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,166
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    I thought he was Marshall Pete ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    Yes it was administered from Vichy. Who do you think ran the police force (as exemplified by Officer Crabtree in "'Allo, 'Allo")?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,445

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,643
    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Not at all.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,612

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Not as long as you want France to win.
    Allez Les bleus when it comes to Rugby.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,539
    edited January 28
    rcs1000 said:

    OK, serious question.

    In the third Harry Potter book, Hermione gets a time turner to enable her to do more subjects (and also so Harry can do the Petronas charm and fight off the Dementers.)

    WHY DOES NO-ONE AT ANY POINT THINK: HMMMM.... THIS TIME TRAVEL LARK WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IN THE FIGHT AGAINST VOLDEMORT???

    As a fan of the book series having read it growing up this is the least of the inconsistencies. It is, however, a kids book.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War

    The Quasi-War[a] was an undeclared war from 1798 to 1800 between the United States and the French First Republic. It was fought almost entirely at sea, primarily in the Caribbean and off the East Coast of the United States, with minor actions in the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch

    Operation Torch (8–16 November 1942) was an Allied invasion of French North Africa during the Second World War
    'was an undeclared war'
    From the perspective of the U.S. Navy, the Quasi-War consisted of a series of ship-to-ship actions in U.S. coastal waters and the Caribbean; one of the first was the Capture of La Croyable on 7 July 1798 by Delaware outside Egg Harbor, New Jersey.[23] On 20 November, a pair of French frigates, Insurgente and Volontaire, captured the schooner USS Retaliation, commanded by Lieutenant William Bainbridge; Retaliation was recaptured on 28 June 1799.[24]

    On 9 February 1799, the frigate Constellation captured the French Navy's frigate L'Insurgente. By 1 July, under the command of Decatur, USS United States had been refitted and repaired and embarked on her mission to patrol the South Atlantic coast and West Indies in search of French ships which were preying on American merchant vessels.[25]

    On 1 January 1800, a convoy of American merchant ships escorted by USS Experiment fought off an attack by French-allied Haitian privateers near Hispaniola. On 1 February, Constellation severely damaged the French frigate La Vengeance off the coast of Saint Kitts. Silas Talbot led a naval expedition during the Battle of Puerto Plata Harbor in early May, capturing a Spanish army controlled coastal fort and a French corvette.[26] When French troops occupied Curaçao in July, USS Patapsco and USS Merrimack bombarded French positions on the island and landed marines to support the local Dutch troops before the French withdrew. On 12 October, the frigate Boston captured the corvette Le Berceau.[27]

    On 25 October, USS Enterprise defeated the French brig Flambeau near Dominica. Enterprise also captured eight privateers and freed eleven U.S. merchant ships from captivity, while Experiment captured the French privateers Deux Amis and Diane and liberated numerous American merchant ships. Although U.S. military losses were light, the French had seized over 2,000 American merchant ships by the time the war ended.[28]
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
    I think I speak for all of PB when I say: all praise Donald Trump

    We in the west need him to win these culture wars. He is fighting for our freedom. Fight Fight Fight!!!

    I love him

    Goodnight from The Goon, Burma
    Is he though? Is Trump fighting for us and if he is, who is the "us" for whom Trump fights because it does not seem to be Europe.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 74,156

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
    I think I speak for all of PB when I say: all praise Donald Trump

    We in the west need him to win these culture wars. He is fighting for our freedom. Fight Fight Fight!!!

    I love him

    Goodnight from The Goon, Burma
    Is he though? Is Trump fighting for us and if he is, who is the "us" for whom Trump fights because it does not seem to be Europe.
    Leon is just being a plonker tonight.
    A little bit more than usual.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,404
    edited January 28

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quasi-War

    The Quasi-War[a] was an undeclared war from 1798 to 1800 between the United States and the French First Republic. It was fought almost entirely at sea, primarily in the Caribbean and off the East Coast of the United States, with minor actions in the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch

    Operation Torch (8–16 November 1942) was an Allied invasion of French North Africa during the Second World War
    'was an undeclared war'
    From the perspective of the U.S. Navy, the Quasi-War consisted of a series of ship-to-ship actions in U.S. coastal waters and the Caribbean; one of the first was the Capture of La Croyable on 7 July 1798 by Delaware outside Egg Harbor, New Jersey.[23] On 20 November, a pair of French frigates, Insurgente and Volontaire, captured the schooner USS Retaliation, commanded by Lieutenant William Bainbridge; Retaliation was recaptured on 28 June 1799.[24]

    On 9 February 1799, the frigate Constellation captured the French Navy's frigate L'Insurgente. By 1 July, under the command of Decatur, USS United States had been refitted and repaired and embarked on her mission to patrol the South Atlantic coast and West Indies in search of French ships which were preying on American merchant vessels.[25]

    On 1 January 1800, a convoy of American merchant ships escorted by USS Experiment fought off an attack by French-allied Haitian privateers near Hispaniola. On 1 February, Constellation severely damaged the French frigate La Vengeance off the coast of Saint Kitts. Silas Talbot led a naval expedition during the Battle of Puerto Plata Harbor in early May, capturing a Spanish army controlled coastal fort and a French corvette.[26] When French troops occupied Curaçao in July, USS Patapsco and USS Merrimack bombarded French positions on the island and landed marines to support the local Dutch troops before the French withdrew. On 12 October, the frigate Boston captured the corvette Le Berceau.[27]

    On 25 October, USS Enterprise defeated the French brig Flambeau near Dominica. Enterprise also captured eight privateers and freed eleven U.S. merchant ships from captivity, while Experiment captured the French privateers Deux Amis and Diane and liberated numerous American merchant ships. Although U.S. military losses were light, the French had seized over 2,000 American merchant ships by the time the war ended.[28]
    HYUFD would claim that the war in Malaya up to 1960 wasn't a war. Or that the Falklands wasn't a war. But many, many good people died or were injured in body and mind in those wars.

    Also: the privateers were not pirates. They had explicit authorization from their governments. That's the definition of a privateer - making war on the enemy, only for profit and at no cost to the state.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,415
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    ... But... We'll always have Paris, right?
  • I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,166
    Leon said:

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
    Did they lie? Or just not say anything?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,615
    Leon said:

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
    An absolute WAG would be that they were testing anti-drone technologies, which required secrecy. Perhaps because they did not want third parties (and foreign government agents...) observing what they were doing to or around the drones.

    But that's just a guess.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,850
    edited January 28
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    DougSeal said:

    Talking of yougov:

    YouGov@YouGov
    ·
    24m
    Disapproval in the government reaches its highest level since the election

    Approve: 16% (-4 from 18-20 Jan)
    Disapprove: 64% (+4)
    Net: -48 (-8)

    And yet ...

    Latest YouGov Westminster voting intention (26-27 Jan)

    Lab: 27% (+1 from 20-21 Jan)
    Ref: 23% (-1)
    Con: 22% (=)
    Lib Dem: 14% (=)
    Green: 9% (=)
    SNP: 3% (=)

    I increasingly get the impression that all parties listed here are now attracting little more than their core vote.
    I would say 14% is way in excess of the Lib Dem core vote, which is closer to 5-6% as we saw in the late coalition and early Corbyn years. MUch as it pains me to admit.

    The Green core vote may be even smaller. 3% perhaps? I would take the 8% LD excess over core vote and distribute about 4% to tactical voting, 4% to NOTA and centrist Tories. And take the 6% excess for the Greens and allocate it 4% to disgruntled BJO lefties, and 2% to vaguely NOTA voters who are in mid-term mode.
    The poll quoted in the LD's GE 2024 review suggested that LD voters were the most likely to be tactical voters and Con/Reform the least likely. Which suggests just lumping Tory and Reform votes together will not work.
    In the olden days of not long ago it was just about possible to lump together most votes into centre right or centre left - just two groups in recent years this being Con v Lab/LD/SNP/PC/Green.

    I don't think this convenient two group identity is remotely correct or possible now, and I think this is probably a product of the Brexit years.

    So what does have any use? I think Lab+Con v All others (SPLORG) is a useful measure of the crisis the two party system may be in.

    I think Con v Lab/LD/SNP is a specific but incomplete indicator of a traditional division.

    But neither Greens nor Reform fit properly in a two team formation.

    Reform are not Right, Centre Right, Radical Right or Extreme Right in any sense at all. And Greens are not Centre Left.

    This needs thought. Someone cleverer than I should write an article. My starting point is that everyone (apart from Greens possibly, but certainly including Reform) are different versions of post WWII social democracy. WRT that starting point, what distinguishes them?
    We also need to factor in voters will vote for something you couldn’t even guess they would vote for. There’s probably a lot of Lab 2015, Brexit 2016, Corbyn 2017, Boris 2019, Farage 2024 voters out there. None of the above option could be Reform, Green, or Man in Monkey suit depending on place and time. None of the above as in none of established parties with spells in power in recent decades, can currently get a good vote without offering sane policy - though I suspect there’s a glass ceiling on getting away with that. I’m thinking of the left in France, 5 star in Italy, Afd Germany, Reform UK and Trump in US. Though the more serious 5 star become to having distinct ideology, they are becoming centre left. 5 Star remind me of a comedian or TV presenter who bring out a single promising no album, just the one off very funny single, which is such a big hit they bring out an album to cash in on popularity. I don’t see Trump as heir to the historical GOP, he is no heir of Reagan or Bush, it’s something very different that’s hijacked one of only two runners in race, and got lucky historic crash in incomes lamed the other runner. Trump doesn’t offer good government. He will engineer his own loss of the house in 2 years if not earlier, perhaps even lose the Senate too. And two years later MAGA finally meets its Waterloo on the simple basis by then it will finally be asked, what is it you are going to deliver and how?

    Bottom line question in politics is, make something you want then try selling it, or ask people what they want then sell that promise to them. Either way, you still have to deliver when in power hence Waterloo awaits all Emperors and Empires.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    rcs1000 said:

    OK, serious question.

    In the third Harry Potter book, Hermione gets a time turner to enable her to do more subjects (and also so Harry can do the Petronas charm and fight off the Dementers.)

    WHY DOES NO-ONE AT ANY POINT THINK: HMMMM.... THIS TIME TRAVEL LARK WOULD BE REALLY USEFUL IN THE FIGHT AGAINST VOLDEMORT???

    (a) probably too short term - being able to go back a few hours at most
    (b) rules against creating temporal paradoxes
    (c) they all get destroyed in the fifth book
    (d) it would make a really boring story
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 53,598
    Local CDU politician has his throat slit by 23-year-old migrant from Guinea:

    https://www.nzz.ch/international/gewalttat-in-brandenburg-migrant-soll-cdu-mitglied-ermordet-haben-ld.1868320
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,868
    Leon said:

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
    So the US government's gist is 'No UFOs here; all benign and explainable' and everyone is perfectly happy to accept it. That must be a first.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,166
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
    I think I speak for all of PB when I say: all praise Donald Trump

    We in the west need him to win these culture wars. He is fighting for our freedom. Fight Fight Fight!!!

    I love him

    Goodnight from The Goon, Burma
    Is he though? Is Trump fighting for us and if he is, who is the "us" for whom Trump fights because it does not seem to be Europe.
    Leon is just being a plonker tonight.
    A little bit more than usual.
    I remember when I was teaching, there was always a moronic student in the class...
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,452
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    It's willy waving by both.
    No it’s not. Surely we’ve all learned by now. Trump MEANS what he says - for good or bad. And this time he has surrounded himself with smart, cunning ideologues who fiercely agree - and who know how to do stuff

    I can see a Trump reinforcement of the US base combined with threatened tariffs forcing Denmark to back off. Greenland will vote for Indy in April and then Trump will offer $$$ to its 54,900 people to become a kind of frozen Puerto Rico

    France won’t do shit. Greenland isn’t even in the EU
    Face.

    The Danish government will not want to lose face. And the more the US threatens, the more the Danish government loses face by acceding to Trump's terms.

    There is a deal to be had here, obviously. But as with Canada, the more the US throws its weight around, the more other parties will wish to demonstrate that they have agency.
    I think I speak for all of PB when I say: all praise Donald Trump

    We in the west need him to win these culture wars. He is fighting for our freedom. Fight Fight Fight!!!

    I love him

    Goodnight from The Goon, Burma
    In what way is bullying Denmark a part of the culture wars?

    'Cause here's the thing that pisses me off. If the EU had bullied countries the way that the US currently is, then people would be castigating them.

    But because it's Donald Trump, and he's against woke, then it's OK.

    No, it's not fucking OK. It's still fucking shitty behaviour.
    Because the worst possible crime is to tell someone that they can’t go on doing something they’re used to doing.

    Anything else pales in comparison, obviously.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    Leon said:

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
    Three possibilities spring to mind:-
    1. Because the "for research" drones were supposed to be secret
    2. Because it is hard to prove a negative – that not a single hobbyist drone was a foreign spy
    3. Because it is in their nature
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    When it comes at the expense of celebrating Henry Vths great victory of course it is
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    edited January 28
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Not as long as you want France to win.
    Allez Les bleus when it comes to Rugby.
    The Plan

    1) Starmer, Trumps new bestie, persuaded him to invade Greenland anyway.
    2) While France is distracted by war in Greenland, we do what we always do. Invade France.
    3) 25 seconds later (allowing 20 seconds for gem to surrender), we invade the US in conjunction with Canada.
    4) proclaim the second British Empire in the Whitehouse ballroom. And crown Charlie as Emperor.

    Should be good for 40% in the polls…
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,239
    Jim Acosta announces CNN departure: ‘Don’t give in to the fear’

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2025/jan/28/jim-acosta-leaves-cnn
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,868

    Leon said:

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
    Three possibilities spring to mind:-
    1. Because the "for research" drones were supposed to be secret
    2. Because it is hard to prove a negative – that not a single hobbyist drone was a foreign spy
    3. Because it is in their nature
    Or these were alien scout ships and Trump, being an artificial life form who takes orders from the aliens by telepathy, is making us drop our guard before the invasion.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,668

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    They should have renamed it HMS Malvinas for the giggles.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    edited January 28
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    No the Nazis invaded France and occupied the country when it was defeated, Petain was just a Nazi puppet who only directly ruled southern France. The victorious allies of course only ever recognised the de Gaulle government in exile in London as the French government throughout WW2 and after WW2 de Gaulle's government tried and jailed Petain for treason
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,742
    edited January 28
    After all the raised blood pressure on here last week about Assisted Dying the Commons Committee has today heard evidence from Chris Whitty (and others) - and there doesn't appear to be a single post on here about it.

    Maybe everyone has lost interest - but if anyone is still interested here's the link to the BBC's report on today's evidence. 50 witnesses are giving evidence this week.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cge72eyzjl9o
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,533
    On topic who says 2 +2 = 4 anyway?

    a= 2
    a = b
    a2 = ab
    a2-b2 = ab-b2
    (a+b)(a-b) = b(a-b)
    a+b =b
    4 = 2
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169
    edited January 28
    HYUFD said:

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    When it comes at the expense of celebrating Henry Vths great victory of course it is
    Right now though it might not be a bad idea to be a little less abrasive towards our French allies.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,559
    DavidL said:

    On topic who says 2 +2 = 4 anyway?

    a= 2
    a = b
    a2 = ab
    a2-b2 = ab-b2
    (a+b)(a-b) = b(a-b)
    a+b =b
    4 = 2

    Ah, I see what you did there.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,188
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    No the Nazis invaded France and occupied the country when it was defeated, Petain was just a Nazi puppet who only directly ruled the France. The victorious allies of course only ever recognised the de Gaulle government in exile in London as the French government throughout WW2 and after WW2 de Gaulle's government tried and jailed Petain for treason
    In Operation Torch, US forces directly fought Vichy French forces in North Africa.

    George Washington commanded the Virginia Militia against the French too, albeit before the declaration of Independence.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    No the Nazis invaded France and occupied the country when it was defeated, Petain was just a Nazi puppet who only directly ruled the France. The victorious allies of course only ever recognised the de Gaulle government in exile in London as the French government throughout WW2 and after WW2 de Gaulle's government tried and jailed Petain for treason
    In Operation Torch, US forces directly fought Vichy French forces in North Africa.

    George Washington commanded the Virginia Militia against the French too, albeit before the declaration of Independence.
    During "Torch", at Casablanca, USS Massachusetts engaged in a gun duel with the French battleship Jean Bart.
  • Leon said:

    The culprit for the mysterious drones has been revealed:

    https://x.com/nicksortor/status/1884305175965491691

    So bizarre. Why did the Biden Admin lie?!
    So the US government's gist is 'No UFOs here; all benign and explainable' and everyone is perfectly happy to accept it. That must be a first.
    They're relying on the fact that Trump fans think the Biden was always lying, while Trump is always truthful.

    I still think they may have been China.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    No the Nazis invaded France and occupied the country when it was defeated, Petain was just a Nazi puppet who only directly ruled the France. The victorious allies of course only ever recognised the de Gaulle government in exile in London as the French government throughout WW2 and after WW2 de Gaulle's government tried and jailed Petain for treason
    In Operation Torch, US forces directly fought Vichy French forces in North Africa.

    George Washington commanded the Virginia Militia against the French too, albeit before the declaration of Independence.
    With the De Gaulle French government in exile opposed to the Vichy French forces.

    What Washington did under British command before the US Declaration of Independence does not count
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,915

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    What;s wrong with the name "Agincourt"?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    "BREAKING: France has discussed with Denmark sending troops to Greenland in response to United States President Donald Trump's repeated threats to annex the Danish territory, French Foreign Minister Jean-Noël Barrot said."

    It's a mad world, my masters.

    Is it bad that I want a war between France and America?
    Would be the first time ever, France and America have never been at war before. We have been at war with both of course, indeed the French were allies of the American colonists in the Revolutionary War when they sought independence from the British Empire.

    Macron is one of the few people in the world with as big an eco as Trump and France also has one of the biggest NATO armies and an independent nuclear missile deterrent so it is not a guaranteed easy US win.

    I doubt anything will come of it though French troops in Greenland might put off the Americans
    Not true. At least one small naval wars. And WW2.
    France was one of the allies in WW2, Vichy France only covered southern France, De Gaulle effectively headed the French government in exile and had Vichy head Petain tried and jailed for treason after the War.

    Still not true. Vichy France was all of France - just with part of it occupied pending the war's end (apart from Alsace-Lorraine etc, obviously).

    No, northern France was directly occupied by the Nazis and not under Vichy rule
    While it was occupied, it was still technically part of France: the Vichy regime "allowed" the Nazis to administer. Even after November 1942 when the Germans occupied the whole of the country, it was still technically at the behest of the Petain's French Provisional Government.
    No the Nazis invaded France and occupied the country when it was defeated, Petain was just a Nazi puppet who only directly ruled southern France. The victorious allies of course only ever recognised the de Gaulle government in exile in London as the French government throughout WW2 and after WW2 de Gaulle's government tried and jailed Petain for treason
    Sort of. The extent to which De Gaulle's "official" French government was taken seriously by the Allied leadership is a question for the historians.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,652
    glw said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    When it comes at the expense of celebrating Henry Vths great victory of course it is
    Right now though it might not be a bad idea to be a little less abrasive towards our French allies.
    What next, rename Waterloo station Hastings?

    The French have no problem offending Austrians with Austerlitz station
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    Mona Lisa to be moved as part of major Louvre overhaul
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cde9r0xgk67o

    Buried in this non-story is the Brexit unbenefit of having to pay more than official Europeans to see French art.
  • I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    What;s wrong with the name "Agincourt"?
    It probably doesn't fit Starmer's plans for Anglo-French naval co-operation.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,708

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    What;s wrong with the name "Agincourt"?
    Its French?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,533

    MattW said:

    Cardiff University sets out proposals for 400 redundancies

    Workforce is just over 7k, with a 50/50 academic/administrative split.

    Is there a breakdown of the numbers?

    TBH it sounds like a pinprick - although I'm sure various pols will be claiming to have parented kittens.

    A few years before I started University in the 1980s, Mrs Thatcher cut the University's central funding by 30% (also Aston, Salford as industrial enthusiast Maggie cut the industrial universities hardest), and they lost some core courses.

    https://www.bradford.ac.uk/library/special-collections/our-collections/university-of-bradford-archive/

    The Thatcher government closed all of the small colleges in London University.
    I do think there is an existential crisis in the university sector. The domestic students are subsidised by foreign students and we killed that golden goose a couple of years ago. Without student fees, from wherever the come, the sector dies.

    Now for those on the right of politics who are desperate for exclusively elite universities servicing the few, this can only be good news. For the rest of us it marks a shift away from educating our young people to conquer the World intellectually.
    You over state the case. We haven't suddenly switched to zero foreign students. Indeed some courses are very successfully recruiting overseas.

    There is a huge problem and its yet another for Starmer's government to tackle. What is University for? Is it about increasing skills and knowledge of the nation? Is it keeping people of the unemployed lists? Is it pointless?

    How is it paid for and does that money give value for money?
    https://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/latest/news/new-report-reveals-key-role-universities

    “The latest figures show the UK higher education sector’s teaching, research and innovation activities had an economic impact of £158 billion. When combined with previous London Economics analysis of the direct spending by the sector and the economic benefit of international students, the total impact across UK HE in 2021/22 was £265 billion. Comparing against the public cost of these activities, London Economics found a cost to benefit ratio of 14 to 1. This means for every £1 of public money invested into UK universities, £14 of economic benefit is generated.”

    Although this is from Universities UK.
    Even if those figures are somewhat exaggerated it is indisputable that Universities are one of our more successful export industries and a source of much of the innovation in this country. No government can be indifferent to the prospects for the sector but they can be a bit selective in what they seek to help.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,188

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    What;s wrong with the name "Agincourt"?
    It's wrong to name a ship for a land battle.

    HMS Trafalgar would be suitable though.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,169
    HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    HYUFD said:

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    When it comes at the expense of celebrating Henry Vths great victory of course it is
    Right now though it might not be a bad idea to be a little less abrasive towards our French allies.
    What next, rename Waterloo station Hastings?

    The French have no problem offending Austrians with Austerlitz station
    It's a new submarine, it's not like renaming a well known landmark which has carried the name for ages.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,373
    On universities, foreign students and the immigration statistics.

    PBers should be aware that there are any number of non-traditional institutions where students can study for degrees and get visas. It is not just the names you recognise from your own UCAS form of 20 years ago.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,923

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    What;s wrong with the name "Agincourt"?
    Its French?
    Nope, the French name is Azincourt.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,612
    I came across this on the BBC website -

    There are on average more than 6,000 PhDs in STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) coming out of Chinese universities every month. In the US it is more like 2,000-3,000, in the UK it is 1,500.

    We have a population roughly 5% that of China so turning out 20%-25% of the STEM PhDs China does every month isn’t bad is it? I mean not all of them are awarded to U.K. students but nevertheless…

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0rq0vyd549o
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    Wasn’t Achilles a bit errr… chummy with his best buddy Patroclus? Sharing a blanket on cold nights etc…

    I know the one remaining tradition of the Royal Navy (no Rum, no Lash), but isn’t that a bit Woke?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 52,958
    edited January 28
    Foxy said:

    I see that woke'paranoia has gone so far that even renaming HMS Agincourt, to HMS Achilles, is now "woke", according to genius Grant Shapps.

    Homeric Greece - the centre of the woke takeover.

    What;s wrong with the name "Agincourt"?
    It's wrong to name a ship for a land battle.

    HMS Trafalgar would be suitable though.
    HMS Nile?
    HMS St Vincent?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,742
    edited January 28
    DavidL said:

    On topic who says 2 +2 = 4 anyway?

    a= 2
    a = b
    a2 = ab
    a2-b2 = ab-b2
    (a+b)(a-b) = b(a-b)
    a+b =b
    4 = 2

    Are we dividing by zero again? Thought that was banned by the ancients.
This discussion has been closed.