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If Lab doesn't succeed perhaps the voters will turn to somebody other than the Tories?

135

Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    At this stage of opposition Capability Keir was somewhere between pointing at wallpaper and christening The Johnson Variant
    Yep, and delivered the worst defeat of the Tories in 2 centuries.

    That's pretty damned capable as LOTO.
    Nigel Farage did that.
    Is Nigel Farage PM?

    I must have missed that. I thought he just had a taxi-full of MPs.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,768

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    At this stage of opposition Capability Keir was somewhere between pointing at wallpaper and christening The Johnson Variant
    Yep, and delivered the worst defeat of the Tories in 2 centuries.

    That's pretty damned capable as LOTO.
    Nigel Farage did that.
    It might be silly to suggest there were no factors other than Starmer, but I think it'd also be silly to suggest he had nothing to do with it. Like suggesting the only reason Boris won in 2019 was because of Corbyn.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013
    edited January 13

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,908

    LOL now Starmer saying Reeves will be CoE for full term

    wibble wibble

    flip flop

    Lammy too apparently

    He should try to emulate Prince Charles: "She has my full confidence, whatever confidence is."
    He's just painted himself in to another corner. If the country demands Reeves head on a platter, what does he do ?
    Starmer is flexible on past promises, so I don't think it would be a problem. If he wants to fire Reeves and keep his promise then it's simple, just call an election! :lol:
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    Capable of turning around a record electoral defeat?

    Yep, he did that.

    He looked a dead duck in his first year as LOTO, so very unwise and complacent to count him out now.
    Non sequitur.

    He won much as Theresa May did in the 2016 Conservative Leadership Election did: because he kept quiet and rivals all took each other out.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    At this stage of opposition Capability Keir was somewhere between pointing at wallpaper and christening The Johnson Variant
    Yep, and delivered the worst defeat of the Tories in 2 centuries.

    That's pretty damned capable as LOTO.
    Nigel Farage did that.
    No he didn't.

    If I wanted to avoid crediting Starmer I think I'd prefer to apportion blame on Johnson and Truss ably assisted by Kwarteng, Braverman, Patel and Jenrick. With of course a supporting cast of Jenkyns, Francois, Baker and Leadsom.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    His ming vase strategy wasn't so much a strategy as playing to his strengths.

    He didn't have a plan or an idea anyway, so he just made a virtue of it.

    Works. Until you get into office.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    ·
    1h
    Yield on UK 10-year bonds getting v close to 4.9% while sterling now close to $1.21. Watch this space!

    Important inflation figures from both sides of the Atlantic on Wednesday will be key
    Best case scenario is they both come in cool
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    Just a reminder it is just one week to Trump !!!!!!

    Maybe there should be a thread on which potential executive order will provoke the most hysteria.
    Abolishing birthright citizenship in contravention of the Constitution.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    Hmmmm.

    Looks like Starmer is getting ready to fire Reeves, judging by the lead story on the BBC.

    That could cause ructions all around - financial and political. I hope for his sake he knows what he's doing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No, it wasn't. And your second point is pathetically weak.

    Again, I don't think you're even convincing yourself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114

    Just a reminder it is just one week to Trump !!!!!!

    Maybe there should be a thread on which potential executive order will provoke the most hysteria.
    Abolishing birthright citizenship in contravention of the Constitution.
    So is trying to overthrow the government, but that didn't stop him.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    Polls only come round when a leader has a plan and is vindicated by results.

    He is no leader, has no plan, and is achieving terrible results.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No, it wasn't. And your second point is pathetically weak.

    Again, I don't think you're even convincing yourself.
    Your mind reading powers are legendary, Casino. I don’t know why the rest of us even bother posting when you already know what we’re really thinking.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    ydoethur said:

    Just a reminder it is just one week to Trump !!!!!!

    Maybe there should be a thread on which potential executive order will provoke the most hysteria.
    Abolishing birthright citizenship in contravention of the Constitution.
    So is trying to overthrow the government, but that didn't stop him.
    No, I was answering williamglenn’s musing. I think the executive order to abolish birthright citizenship is the one that will provoke the most hysteria (arguably justifiably so).
  • ydoethur said:

    Hmmmm.

    Looks like Starmer is getting ready to fire Reeves, judging by the lead story on the BBC.

    That could cause ructions all around - financial and political. I hope for his sake he knows what he's doing.

    Hope over expectation comes to mind
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,453
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    At this stage of opposition Capability Keir was somewhere between pointing at wallpaper and christening The Johnson Variant
    Yep, and delivered the worst defeat of the Tories in 2 centuries.

    That's pretty damned capable as LOTO.
    Nigel Farage did that.
    It might be silly to suggest there were no factors other than Starmer, but I think it'd also be silly to suggest he had nothing to do with it. Like suggesting the only reason Boris won in 2019 was because of Corbyn.
    Probably not the only reason, but definitely the main reason
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment if Labour doesn't succeed it looks like voters will elect a very hung parliament, neither turning for the Tories or any other party for a majority government. Though the LDs or Reform may end up Kingmakers in a hung parliament

    Tory redemption could take a while. I suspect it is very much reliant on a Reform implosion, which on the balance of probabilities is highly likely.
    To an extent but Reform are also taking Labour votes now too not just Tory ones
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
    You are still in denial of the scale of your parties defeat.

    The Tories need a Starmer figure who can win against the odds.

    To a degree Badenoch is following the same model, trying to defeat her internal enemies first, and also announce no policies, just pure oppositionism. Let's see if it works for her, but I don't think she has the same organisational skill or backing within the party. I suppose we should know by 2028.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,207
    ydoethur said:

    Andrew Neil
    @afneil
    ·
    1h
    Yield on UK 10-year bonds getting v close to 4.9% while sterling now close to $1.21. Watch this space!

    Important inflation figures from both sides of the Atlantic on Wednesday will be key
    Will it be a Black Wednesday?
    Trump - or at least, his team - will be praying the figures are awful.

    Then, when his deranged tariff programme causes prices to skyrocket, he'll blame Biden for bequeathing high inflation.
    Blaming the last lot seems like very shallow politics. I'm glad we don't do that in the UK.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    edited January 13

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,207
    edited January 13
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
    You are still in denial of the scale of your parties defeat.

    The Tories need a Starmer figure who can win against the odds.

    To a degree Badenoch is following the same model, trying to defeat her internal enemies first, and also announce no policies, just pure oppositionism. Let's see if it works for her, but I don't think she has the same organisational skill or backing within the party. I suppose we should know by 2028.
    I can't help but feel the Tories need more than that. They feel adrift. A vaguely right-leaning raft in search of an anchor.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No, it wasn't. And your second point is pathetically weak.

    Again, I don't think you're even convincing yourself.
    Your mind reading powers are legendary, Casino. I don’t know why the rest of us even bother posting when you already know what we’re really thinking.
    You're not as clever as you think you are.

    Sorry.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
    You are still in denial of the scale of your parties defeat.

    The Tories need a Starmer figure who can win against the odds.

    To a degree Badenoch is following the same model, trying to defeat her internal enemies first, and also announce no policies, just pure oppositionism. Let's see if it works for her, but I don't think she has the same organisational skill or backing within the party. I suppose we should know by 2028.
    Err, no.

    Try again.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 13
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
    You are still in denial of the scale of your parties defeat.

    The Tories need a Starmer figure who can win against the odds.

    To a degree Badenoch is following the same model, trying to defeat her internal enemies first, and also announce no policies, just pure oppositionism. Let's see if it works for her, but I don't think she has the same organisational skill or backing within the party. I suppose we should know by 2028.
    Starmer won after 4 consecutive Labour GE defeats and 14 years of Tory rule and at a time of high cost of living, even Corbyn could have won most seats last July.

    Kemi has a much more difficult task just 6 months into opposition but is getting a hung parliament on some polls.

    Kemi does also have some key backers eg Dougie Smith, Dr No and Gove, ie those who Nadine sees as the dark forces who have taken over the Tory Party since they backed Portillo in 2001, switched to Cameron in 2005 and were key to Rishi and Kemi's rise too. Kemi also to be fair to her won the Tory MPs and members vote
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
    You are still in denial of the scale of your parties defeat.

    The Tories need a Starmer figure who can win against the odds.

    To a degree Badenoch is following the same model, trying to defeat her internal enemies first, and also announce no policies, just pure oppositionism. Let's see if it works for her, but I don't think she has the same organisational skill or backing within the party. I suppose we should know by 2028.
    I can't help but feel the Tories need more than that. They feel adrift. A vaguely right-leaning raft in search of an anchor.
    No, I think like Labour in 2020 they need to wallow in directionless misery for another year or two. It's an essential stage in the recovery process. The Tories need to wake up in piss stained trousers and a pool of dried vomit, and think "never again" and mean it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    Selebian said:

    LOL now Starmer saying Reeves will be CoE for full term

    wibble wibble

    flip flop

    Lammy too apparently

    He should try to emulate Prince Charles: "She has my full confidence, whatever confidence is."
    He's just painted himself in to another corner. If the country demands Reeves head on a platter, what does he do ?
    Starmer is flexible on past promises, so I don't think it would be a problem. If he wants to fire Reeves and keep his promise then it's simple, just call an election! :lol:
    That might be easier than finding a decent replacement for Reeves that Mr Market will buy into.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    Cookie said:

    I listened to some of Starmer's AI speech as I drove to the pool today. Leaving aside the content, his delivery is awful. It might work in a court or meeting, but it just doesn't work when he has to deliver a message to the public, or sell a policy.

    He should really have got this sorted years ago. Thatcher had voice coaching, as I recall.

    I can't even listen to his shuttlecock caught in his Adam's apple voice.

    As soon as he comes on I turn the radio off.
    It’s funny how some voices grate.

    I used to find Boris’s quite awful. All that waffle and wiffle. Really started to wind me up.

    Sunak’s I liked. May, Cameron were fine. Truss sounded like she was a child reading the phone book slowly - very weird. Brown’s vocal timbre was quite reassuring and solid (I found what he said annoying). The one that changed for me was Blair. For a long time I didn’t mind his weird vocal mannerisms and then there reached a point where it drove me to utter apoplexy every time he started talking. Never minded Thatcher’s - though if you were an opponent I could see how it would annoy.

    Starmer is definitely in the bottom tier.
    I don't mind cracking open my ranking of PM's from most to least annoying voice again:

    Thatcher
    Sunak
    Starmer
    Major
    Blair
    May
    Cameron
    Johnson
    Brown
    Truss

    Yeah, Truss wins. Personal taste, innit. But I find the south eastern accent (i.e. mist of them) can be a little grating.
    Brown would win, but he was just so bloody gloomy.
    Blair/ Sunak (they sound the same).
    Cameron
    Brown
    May
    Starmer/Major (both nasal droners)
    Thatcher
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Truss
    Johnson
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
    Worth noting that the British economy grew strongly from 1932 onwards, despite the self inflicted wounds of the countries imposing tarrifs. Mass home building, new industries and technologies was how the 1930s were here, while America was in the doldrums, indeed going into a second slump in the late Thirties.

    Sure, it isn't guaranteed that we can do the same, and it took a pretty radical budget in 1932 to do it, but it is possible.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Great line for a pull.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    HYUFD said:

    ...

    HYUFD said:

    At the moment if Labour doesn't succeed it looks like voters will elect a very hung parliament, neither turning for the Tories or any other party for a majority government. Though the LDs or Reform may end up Kingmakers in a hung parliament

    Tory redemption could take a while. I suspect it is very much reliant on a Reform implosion, which on the balance of probabilities is highly likely.
    To an extent but Reform are also taking Labour votes now too not just Tory ones
    The Labour to Reformers presumably simply stay at home or continue voting Reform if Reform implode but remain on the ballot.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,253

    Reform will implode latest:


    Talk
    @TalkTV
    ·
    2h
    Reform UK MP Rupert Lowe on whether his party would ask the British people to pay for medical care when in government.

    "We should be allowed to opt out of the NHS and have some form of, you know, scheme where we buy our own healthcare."

    @RupertLowe10

    Something like that exists in Germany, but it's a shit system that nobody sane should copy.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,207

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
    Worth noting that the British economy grew strongly from 1932 onwards, despite the self inflicted wounds of the countries imposing tarrifs. Mass home building, new industries and technologies was how the 1930s were here, while America was in the doldrums, indeed going into a second slump in the late Thirties.

    Sure, it isn't guaranteed that we can do the same, and it took a pretty radical budget in 1932 to do it, but it is possible.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
    In 1932, weren’t we part of a large free trade zone (the British Empire)? That may have helped us weather that storm.
  • Tomorrow is the day that irony dies.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    ....
    A lady crime writer. I am assuming your post is a little bit impish and they are simply flatmates.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    edited January 13

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
    Worth noting that the British economy grew strongly from 1932 onwards, despite the self inflicted wounds of the countries imposing tarrifs. Mass home building, new industries and technologies was how the 1930s were here, while America was in the doldrums, indeed going into a second slump in the late Thirties.

    Sure, it isn't guaranteed that we can do the same, and it took a pretty radical budget in 1932 to do it, but it is possible.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
    In 1932, weren’t we part of a large free trade zone (the British Empire)? That may have helped us weather that storm.
    Yes, if there were a large free trade zone nearby that we could join, it would be helpful.

    I fully expect that the countries targeted by the Trump Tariffs will retaliate, but I do expect that retaliation to be targeted on the USA rather than collateral damage to other countries.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 13
    kamski said:

    Reform will implode latest:


    Talk
    @TalkTV
    ·
    2h
    Reform UK MP Rupert Lowe on whether his party would ask the British people to pay for medical care when in government.

    "We should be allowed to opt out of the NHS and have some form of, you know, scheme where we buy our own healthcare."

    @RupertLowe10

    Something like that exists in Germany, but it's a shit system that nobody sane should copy.
    Lowe is right, indeed such a system exists in most OECD nations, we are just the uber statist, bureaucratic taxpayer funded healthcare extreme to the get private health insurance or go without other healthcare extreme most middle income Americans of working age have to deal with
  • eekeek Posts: 28,774
    That isn't even what the article says - it basically says she stays in Val's Edinburgh flat when attending the Scottish Parliament and wants to stay over rather than head back to Glasgow..
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,207

    Tomorrow is the day that irony dies.

    But we'll still have 'goldy' and 'bronzy', right?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
    Worth noting that the British economy grew strongly from 1932 onwards, despite the self inflicted wounds of the countries imposing tarrifs. Mass home building, new industries and technologies was how the 1930s were here, while America was in the doldrums, indeed going into a second slump in the late Thirties.

    Sure, it isn't guaranteed that we can do the same, and it took a pretty radical budget in 1932 to do it, but it is possible.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
    In 1932, weren’t we part of a large free trade zone (the British Empire)? That may have helped us weather that storm.
    Fake news. The British Empire wasn't a free trade zone and the Indian colonial government applied tariffs to British imports during that period.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,524
    edited January 13

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
    Worth noting that the British economy grew strongly from 1932 onwards, despite the self inflicted wounds of the countries imposing tarrifs. Mass home building, new industries and technologies was how the 1930s were here, while America was in the doldrums, indeed going into a second slump in the late Thirties.

    Sure, it isn't guaranteed that we can do the same, and it took a pretty radical budget in 1932 to do it, but it is possible.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
    In 1932, weren’t we part of a large free trade zone (the British Empire)? That may have helped us weather that storm.
    Fake news. The British Empire wasn't a free trade zone and the Indian colonial government applied tariffs to British imports during that period.
    Despite the worldwide tarrifs we grew on average 3.8% over the years from 1932 to 1938.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 13
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.
    Worth noting that the British economy grew strongly from 1932 onwards, despite the self inflicted wounds of the countries imposing tarrifs. Mass home building, new industries and technologies was how the 1930s were here, while America was in the doldrums, indeed going into a second slump in the late Thirties.

    Sure, it isn't guaranteed that we can do the same, and it took a pretty radical budget in 1932 to do it, but it is possible.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
    In 1932, weren’t we part of a large free trade zone (the British Empire)? That may have helped us weather that storm.
    Yes, if there were a large free trade zone nearby that we could join, it would be helpful.

    I fully expect that the countries targeted by the Trump Tariffs will retaliate, but I do expect that retaliation to be targeted on the USA rather than collateral damage to other countries.
    By the end of the year we are likely to have a fullscale trade war between China, the EU and Mexico on one side and Trump's US on the other, maybe Japan as well if Trump raises tariffs again on their car exports to the US.

    We may be able to keep out alongside most of the Anglosphere, including Canada assuming Poilievre gets in and can cut a deal with Trump the Liberals can't
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    Flaunt it? Putin would never do that. I don't know yacht you're talking about.
  • Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    I was so disappointed that the other Scottish parties didn't ditch the battle buses for the election campaign and use camper vans instead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    Flaunt it? Putin would never do that. I don't know yacht you're talking about.
    What kind of yarn is that?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,314

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 118
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
    With the usual Foreign Office freelancing in the background, but nothing to do with ministers.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,330

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    I was so disappointed that the other Scottish parties didn't ditch the battle buses for the election campaign and use camper vans instead.
    SLab could have borrowed Ange’s.


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    OMG I have just seen a tv clip from earlier of Pat McFadden laughing.

    Very early in the year for a visit from the three ghosts of xmas but hey...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    "Capable".

    Chortle.
    To be fair, he was a decent LOTO in the sense that he managed to drag his party back to electability, and didn’t frighten the horses. Id give him some credit. It’s a hard job to do well. I’d say he did it competently.

    I think it’s somewhat overly and unrealistically hagiographic to suggest that he was some political genius though. He was the luckiest general in politics, being pitted against a party that just kept self-imploding, and he could only muster 33.7% of the vote when polling time came, against the worst government in living memory.
    Yep, but you can only defeat the opposition that turns up, and he did deliver a thrashing unprecedented in 2 centuries.
    He did not. Labour were simply the most proximate ejection mechanism in most seats.

    As Pulpstar said it was like 650 by-elections, which is how Reform and the Greens weirdly got those seats and the LDs did so well.
    You are still in denial of the scale of your parties defeat.

    The Tories need a Starmer figure who can win against the odds.

    To a degree Badenoch is following the same model, trying to defeat her internal enemies first, and also announce no policies, just pure oppositionism. Let's see if it works for her, but I don't think she has the same organisational skill or backing within the party. I suppose we should know by 2028.
    I can't help but feel the Tories need more than that. They feel adrift. A vaguely right-leaning raft in search of an anchor.
    No, I think like Labour in 2020 they need to wallow in directionless misery for another year or two. It's an essential stage in the recovery process. The Tories need to wake up in piss stained trousers and a pool of dried vomit, and think "never again" and mean it.
    So, you're saying we need to have a night on the town with @Leon and wake up in his flat?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    I don’t think that’s what @Northern_AI (or is it @Northern_Al ) is saying. I don’t see any evidence that Labour are ignoring or would ignore public opinion, but possibly the views of their staunchest opponents on PB, who would hate them whatever they did, can be ignored?

    I hope we all agree that a government 6 months into a Parliament with a huge majority should be more focused on delivery than on chasing the polls.
    It does seem that there is quite a lot of delivery going on, at least in my line, but also the Home Office is doing well on both visa numbers and on deportations Let's see if Rayner can get those houses built too.

    I reckon that Labour will deliver improvements across a wide range of their objectives, and I think the economic gloom way overstated.

    The real test at the next GE will be whether voters believe the facts or whether they believe the myths put out. I wouldn't count on the truth winning.
    They need to get the messaging right. By which I mean, when Trump crashes the global economy, they need to keep repeating how Trump has crashed the global economy.
    I think it more that he will crash the US economy, with massive inflation due to Tarrifs and unfunded tax cuts. That will have ramifications of course, but will impact us much less than some other countries, not least because our goods exports to the USA are relatively modest.
    No-one wins from a trade war. Even if we’re not in the frontline, it could be a huge drag on our economy, which already isn’t in tip-top shape.

    Don't let the Tories talk down Britain.
    We don't need to.

    Labour are doing a cracking job of that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
    To his immense credit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    I was so disappointed that the other Scottish parties didn't ditch the battle buses for the election campaign and use camper vans instead.
    Lib Dems Winnebago-ing here!
    A campaign slogan for @rochdalepioneers: “Hello Campers!”
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    I was so disappointed that the other Scottish parties didn't ditch the battle buses for the election campaign and use camper vans instead.
    Lib Dems Winnebago-ing here!
    That’s rather good Foxy 😂😂
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:

    “Hey, Val, I’ve got a great idea for your next book. It’s about how a criminal mastermind almost got away with the crime of a century… stealing a camper van.”
    Whenever I see a picture of the camper van, I keep thinking of the old 'Absolutely' Stoneybridge sketches.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q00N6N8yDRk

    The strangest thing about the camper van corruption scandal isn't it's suburban pettiness, but rather that it was never used.

    Sturgeon should have gone full oligarch bling like Putin. If you are going to do it, flaunt it.
    I was so disappointed that the other Scottish parties didn't ditch the battle buses for the election campaign and use camper vans instead.
    Lib Dems Winnebago-ing here!
    A campaign slogan for @rochdalepioneers: “Hello Campers!”
    Are you envisaging me as Gladys Pugh or Ted Bovis?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    Hold tomorrow's header!!!

    This is the news of the day.

    Ed Balls tells millions on GMB that pineapple on pizza is "disgusting"

    Huge row.

    Scenes.

    https://x.com/GMB/status/1878698882953015588
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,385
    Luxury flats in Edinburgh don't cost £320 000.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    In other extraordinary events in Scottish politics -

    Glen Sannox has finally entered service.
  • Hold tomorrow's header!!!

    This is the news of the day.

    Ed Balls tells millions on GMB that pineapple on pizza is "disgusting"

    Huge row.

    Scenes.

    https://x.com/GMB/status/1878698882953015588

    To think I helped Andrea Jenkyns defeat Ed Balls in 2015.

    It's like the mark of Cain for me.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    A magnificent pile-on on Starmer and Reeves on PB today. Still, they can console themselves with the thought that they've got four years to convince the PB cognoscenti that they're not as shit as reported in January 2025.
    Whether PB can maintain the pile-on for another four years is a different matter. It could become tedious.

    I think it's complacent in the extreme to think that just because you win a landslide in one GE that public opinion is essentially irrelevant and you can do whatever you like for a full 5 years, and with little consequence.

    Politics doesn't work like that.
    The 2019 parliament demonstrates that very clearly.

    Though whether the Tories have someone as capable as SKS to reverse their bloodbath is far from clear.

    Clue: it doesn't look like Badenoch.
    At this stage of opposition Capability Keir was somewhere between pointing at wallpaper and christening The Johnson Variant
    Yep, and delivered the worst defeat of the Tories in 2 centuries.

    That's pretty damned capable as LOTO.
    Nigel Farage did that.
    No he didn't.

    If I wanted to avoid crediting Starmer I think I'd prefer to apportion blame on Johnson and Truss ably assisted by Kwarteng, Braverman, Patel and Jenrick. With of course a supporting cast of Jenkyns, Francois, Baker and Leadsom.
    We know that, but you'd be talking shite.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
    With the usual Foreign Office freelancing in the background, but nothing to do with ministers.
    David Cameron, pbuh:

    "In December 2023, when David Cameron was foreign secretary, the talks were discontinued after a paper by three legal academics said transferring the islands would be a "major self-inflected blow" for the UK.

    The Labour government picked the talks back up and have now agreed to give the islands back to Mauritius, while the US and UK keep the military base."
  • Reform will implode latest:


    Talk
    @TalkTV
    ·
    2h
    Reform UK MP Rupert Lowe on whether his party would ask the British people to pay for medical care when in government.

    "We should be allowed to opt out of the NHS and have some form of, you know, scheme where we buy our own healthcare."

    @RupertLowe10

    I can't see any Reform voters being that bothered. They aren't ideological socialists - I'd think they'd be largely glad of the extra NHS capacity if other people opted out.
    OK, taking this seriously for a moment, when would people opt out?
    On their eighteenth birthdays?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,773
    ydoethur said:

    In other extraordinary events in Scottish politics -

    Glen Sannox has finally entered service.

    Must be one of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
  • HYUFD said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Trump is focused on China, the EU, Canada and Mexico first for his tariffs.

    One benefit of Brexit is we are at the back of his tariffs queue
    Trump hasn't got the attention span to focus on anything for a meaningful length of time.
  • ydoethur said:

    In other extraordinary events in Scottish politics -

    Glen Sannox has finally entered service.

    Must be one of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
    The morning thread is also one of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 118

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
    With the usual Foreign Office freelancing in the background, but nothing to do with ministers.
    David Cameron, pbuh:

    "In December 2023, when David Cameron was foreign secretary, the talks were discontinued after a paper by three legal academics said transferring the islands would be a "major self-inflected blow" for the UK.

    The Labour government picked the talks back up and have now agreed to give the islands back to Mauritius, while the US and UK keep the military base."
    Yes I agree, it was to Cameron's credit to stop the talks officially. But civil servants were keeping things warm for the incoming government unofficially.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,773

    ydoethur said:

    In other extraordinary events in Scottish politics -

    Glen Sannox has finally entered service.

    Must be one of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
    The morning thread is also one of the harbingers of the apocalypse.
    Independent Scotland votes for pineapple on pizza by alternative vote system?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,203
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
    Negotiations took place under Cleverly, he was Rishi Sunak's Foreign Secretary not just Truss's. If Cameron 'closed down the negotiations on day one' that proves they were happening under Sunak's Government.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,629

    I listened to some of Starmer's AI speech as I drove to the pool today. Leaving aside the content, his delivery is awful. It might work in a court or meeting, but it just doesn't work when he has to deliver a message to the public, or sell a policy.

    He should really have got this sorted years ago. Thatcher had voice coaching, as I recall.

    It makes one wonder how he coped in court to keep the attention of judge and jury. Maybe there have been numerous miscarriages of justice because he bored so many people they called a guilty verdict just so they could stop listening to his monotonous pompous droning.
    AIUi he rarely appeared in court - back room paperwork lawyer
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470

    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    5s
    TELEGRAPH: PM throws Reeves’s future into doubt #TomorrowsPapersToday
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    The Star now has a lettuce dressed as Reeves.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637
    Pretty sure this is Rentoul's Law in action, but let the record show...

    STAR: Should we be popping out for another lettuce? #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://bsky.app/profile/hendopolis.bsky.social/post/3lfnph5aeak24
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,314

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.

    glw said:

    viewcode said:

    https://x.com/javierblas/status/1878830699354165329

    After meeting President Trump in Mar-a-Lago, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith says Canada should prepare for 25% tariffs starting on Jan 20 on all US-bound products, ***including on crude oil***.

    "I'm not expecting any exemptions," she told reporters

    Whilst PB witters on about the Chancellor, Trump declares economic war on the West.
    You are right to point out that Trump is by far the biggest threat to the economy, but that's why a competent Chancellor, and PM, with a deliverable plan matters. Labour should have been preparing us for Trump 2.0 since the general election. Does anyone think that the UK has been Trump-proofed?
    Would Rishi have really made us 'Trump-proof'?
    Rishi wouldn't have: (a) paid to surrender British territory to a foreign power in hock to China (b) not committed to Reparations (c) not asked the Unions to name their price and (d) not sent Tory party staffers to campaign for the Democrats.

    So, for political and economic resilience: yeah, it certainly would have helped.
    Sunak’s government was negotiating (a). Starmer has not committed the UK to reparations. The Labour government largely followed pay review boards’ advice rather than asking the unions to name their price.
    No it wasn't. The Truss government was, David Cameron closed down the negotiations on day one.
    Negotiations took place under Cleverly, he was Rishi Sunak's Foreign Secretary not just Truss's. If Cameron 'closed down the negotiations on day one' that proves they were happening under Sunak's Government.
    Cleverly was a hold over from the Truss government and they just kept those policies going, Dave actually saw the danger after being appointed and binned it. Though yes, on a technical level I'm sure some negotiation took place until Dave binned the idea. Now we just have to hope Trump bins the whole thing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,166
    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    Pretty sure this is Rentoul's Law in action, but let the record show...

    STAR: Should we be popping out for another lettuce? #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://bsky.app/profile/hendopolis.bsky.social/post/3lfnph5aeak24

    That’s a rather ominous looking lettuce.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,773

    Pretty sure this is Rentoul's Law in action, but let the record show...

    STAR: Should we be popping out for another lettuce? #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://bsky.app/profile/hendopolis.bsky.social/post/3lfnph5aeak24

    That’s a rather ominous looking lettuce.

    I'm more interested by "psycho scumbag chatbots 'to save Britain'". Buh?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    I don’t think this will be the low-water mark for Labour.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637
    edited January 13

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
    Since we're talking lettuces, the lowest Conservative rating with YouGov of the Truss era was 21%.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,223
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    "Only" is an interesting choice of word there. I'd have gone for "as many as"...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,059
    edited January 13

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
    Weekly poll apparently from now on

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-within-touching-distance-of-labour-poll-finds-13286697
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
    Baxter gives Lib-Lab pact on that I think.

    I would take that if I was Starmer at the moment!! LOL
  • eekeek Posts: 28,774
    edited January 13

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
    It's a lot worse than little comfort most of those new Reform voters are from the GE Labour vote....
  • Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    I don’t think this will be the low-water mark for Labour.
    AI is not popular either

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1878849564528255000?t=EJNb_bJkoexYzezfSflw1g&s=19
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
    It's a lot worse than little comfort most of those new Reform voters are from the GE Labour vote....
    To be fair @HYUFD has been saying that for quite a while and this confirms his analysis
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    Nice to see YouGov back in the fray. Another nasty headache for Kemi there, and little comfort for Labour.
    Baxter gives Lib-Lab pact on that I think.

    I would take that if I was Starmer at the moment!! LOL
    Hilariously the Tories actually gain seats on the share, presumably because of the swing vis a vis Labour. Farage on 100+.

    The big questions are now 1) what is Reform’s ceiling 2) what is Labour’s floor and 3) will any more of the Tory vote jump ship.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,774

    Pretty sure this is Rentoul's Law in action, but let the record show...

    STAR: Should we be popping out for another lettuce? #TomorrowsPapersToday

    https://bsky.app/profile/hendopolis.bsky.social/post/3lfnph5aeak24

    That’s a rather ominous looking lettuce.

    I've seen less scary horror movie characters...
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,223

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky
    NEW: YouGov / Sky News / Times voting intention poll

    (Comparison with GE24)

    🔴Labour 26% (35%)
    🟤Reform UK 25% (15%)
    🔵Conservatives 22% (24%)
    🟡Lib Dem 14% (13%)
    🟢Greens 8% (7%)

    * Reform 1 point behind Labour
    * Tories in third place
    * Only 10% say this gvt “successful”

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1878924993503133751

    I don’t think this will be the low-water mark for Labour.
    AI is not popular either

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1878849564528255000?t=EJNb_bJkoexYzezfSflw1g&s=19
    Most people's experience of it is shielding them from talking to an actual person in customer service, at a guess.
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