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Does this 1992 Scottish constituency result presage the next UK general election?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,244
edited January 9 in General
image Does this 1992 Scottish constituency result presage the next UK general election?

One of my all time favourite general election constituency results is the one above which shows the absurdity of the first past the post system. Despite being elected as Labour leader under the alternative vote system Starmer has no plans to change the voting system for the UK general election so FPTP is here to stay in all its glory.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306
    Second like SKS
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,064
    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,422
    Elon Musk can be delighted at the lack of diversity in those candidates in Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,791
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    Japanese newspaper reports on Yoon's heavy drinking habits, mentions of martial law

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=389972
    ...Citing a former cabinet minister under the Yoon administration who dined with the president several times, Asahi reported, "Yoon began bringing up the term ‘martial law' more frequently in gatherings after the ruling party's crushing defeat in the April elections last year. His stress levels and alcohol consumption increased as well."

    According to the report, Yoon often drank at venues such as a government residence in Samcheong-dong, Seoul. These gatherings typically included samgyeopsal (grilled pork belly), paired with rounds of "somaek" — a shot of soju mixed with beer. Apparently, Yoon drank up to 20 glasses of somaek in a single sitting.

    The former minister said, "Most people fill their somaek glasses halfway, but the president filled his to the brim. While drinking, the president would criticize opposition politicians, though he sometimes directed criticism at ruling party members as well."

    The report speculated that this habit may stem from Yoon's days as a prosecutor when he drank a mix of whiskey and beer called "Ten-Ten." This potent drink, designed for quick intoxication, was said to be popular among prosecutors.

    A former foreign affairs aide from Yoon's administration revealed that these drinking sessions frequently lasted until dawn.

    Asahi also reported that Yoon became heavily influenced by far-right YouTube channels amid declining approval ratings and criticism of his unilateral governance style...

    I mean, 20 is a lot, but they're not huge:



    Looks like it depends how much Soju you add and how strong the Soju is - it can vary hugely.
    We need an expert. Where's William Hague?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,239
    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,791

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    No, that was not the conclusion. Clowns make people happy. Mostly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,239
    edited January 9

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    No, that was not the conclusion. Clowns make people happy. Mostly.
    I had Pennywise in mind.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,142
    Pulpstar said:

    CommentModel::handleDiscussionCommentSideEffects(): Argument #2 ($discussionID) must be of type int, null given, called in /applications/vanilla/models/CommentModel.php on line 1346

    First.

    You make an excellent point about the Comment Model.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306
    edited January 9

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    No, that was not the conclusion. Clowns make people happy. Mostly.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC6YPQY0_28
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,422

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    No, that was not the conclusion. Clowns make people happy. Mostly.
    I guess Boris Johnson did achieve that with a certain demographic. The Liz Truss happiness was rather shorter lived
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,611

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    No, that was not the conclusion. Clowns make people happy. Mostly.
    I guess Boris Johnson did achieve that with a certain demographic. The Liz Truss happiness was rather shorter lived
    I dunno about that. Many people were very happy when she went. "Relieved" is probably a better word, but happy will do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    Japanese newspaper reports on Yoon's heavy drinking habits, mentions of martial law

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=389972
    ...Citing a former cabinet minister under the Yoon administration who dined with the president several times, Asahi reported, "Yoon began bringing up the term ‘martial law' more frequently in gatherings after the ruling party's crushing defeat in the April elections last year. His stress levels and alcohol consumption increased as well."

    According to the report, Yoon often drank at venues such as a government residence in Samcheong-dong, Seoul. These gatherings typically included samgyeopsal (grilled pork belly), paired with rounds of "somaek" — a shot of soju mixed with beer. Apparently, Yoon drank up to 20 glasses of somaek in a single sitting.

    The former minister said, "Most people fill their somaek glasses halfway, but the president filled his to the brim. While drinking, the president would criticize opposition politicians, though he sometimes directed criticism at ruling party members as well."

    The report speculated that this habit may stem from Yoon's days as a prosecutor when he drank a mix of whiskey and beer called "Ten-Ten." This potent drink, designed for quick intoxication, was said to be popular among prosecutors.

    A former foreign affairs aide from Yoon's administration revealed that these drinking sessions frequently lasted until dawn.

    Asahi also reported that Yoon became heavily influenced by far-right YouTube channels amid declining approval ratings and criticism of his unilateral governance style...

    I mean, 20 is a lot, but they're not huge:



    Looks like it depends how much Soju you add and how strong the Soju is - it can vary hugely.
    The smaller the glass, the greater the proportion of soju, though.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,128
    From header - PS – Fun fact, (I think) the constituency of Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber contained the Scottish district Badenoch, that name sounds familiar.

    It contained the district of Badenoch and Strathspey, but I’m not going to make a song and dance about it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737
    edited January 9
    On the topic of provocative suggestions.

    Support Among Republicans A Constitutional Amendment Allowing Trump To Run For A 3rd Term

    🔴 Support 53% (+25)
    🔵 Oppose 28%

    @J_L_Partners | 1,006 RV

    https://x.com/OpenSourceZone/status/1876682047617671291

    Obama will still be in his 60s by then..
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,099
    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,422
    From previous thread:
    pigeon said:

    » show previous quotes


    pigeon said: *Time once again to remind ourselves that, after allowing for housing costs, the average pensioner has more disposable income than the average worker. The crossover point was reached some years ago, and the net movement of wealth from workers to the retired can only possibly run in one direction so long as the Triple Lock exists and housing remains chronically overvalued*



    Trigger alert for the retired amongst us:

    An extension to this is to discourage retirement. The retirement industry is pernicious. It encourages people to believe that being idle when still fully able is something to aspire to. People should be encouraged to continue in productive paid employment (possibly part time) for as long as they are able. It would reduce labour shortages and give people meaning to their lives while adding, rather than detracting from the economy. Discuss.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,054
    Nigelb said:

    On the topic of provocative suggestions.

    Support Among Republicans A Constitutional Amendment Allowing Trump To Run For A 3rd Term

    🔴 Support 53% (+25)
    🔵 Oppose 28%

    @J_L_Partners | 1,006 RV

    https://x.com/OpenSourceZone/status/1876682047617671291

    Obama will still be in his 60s by then..

    But he wasn't born in America, was he.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,625
    edited January 9
    I've had a look at my savings spreadsheet and although the pound hasn't been this low against USD since November 2023, it is the highest it's been against the Euro since Feb 2022. Is the current kerfuffle cause by a strong dollar or a weak pound?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,625
    @TheScreamingEagles , your article contains this sentence "Add in the secessionist parties in Scotland & Wales and it gets even. "

    Did you leave a word out?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,001
    viewcode said:

    @TheScreamingEagles , your article contains this sentence "Add in the secessionist parties in Scotland & Wales and it gets even. "

    Did you leave a word out?

    traitorous?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198
    viewcode said:

    @TheScreamingEagles , your article contains this sentence "Add in the secessionist parties in Scotland & Wales and it gets even. "

    Did you leave a word out?

    I missed out two words.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198
    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    @TheScreamingEagles , your article contains this sentence "Add in the secessionist parties in Scotland & Wales and it gets even. "

    Did you leave a word out?

    traitorous?
    Seditious.

    #MarshallWadeWasRight
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,665
    I think Belfast South 2017 is more relevant: a bunch of liberal and left-wing parties split 66% of the vote, right-wing reactionary party gets 30% and wins.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,808
    viewcode said:

    I've had a look at my savings spreadsheet and although the pound hasn't been this low against USD since November 2023, it is the highest it's been against the Euro since Feb 2022. Is the current kerfuffle cause by a strong dollar or a weak pound?

    Yes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198

    From header - PS – Fun fact, (I think) the constituency of Inverness, Nairn and Lochaber contained the Scottish district Badenoch, that name sounds familiar.

    It contained the district of Badenoch and Strathspey, but I’m not going to make a song and dance about it.

    I shall amend it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724

    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    @TheScreamingEagles , your article contains this sentence "Add in the secessionist parties in Scotland & Wales and it gets even. "

    Did you leave a word out?

    traitorous?
    Seditious.

    #MarshallWadeWasRight
    No wonder you're worried about the OSA. Think what a Jacobite could make of that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,625
    edited January 9
    ...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,808
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    I've had a look at my savings spreadsheet and although the pound hasn't been this low against USD since November 2023, it is the highest it's been against the Euro since Feb 2022. Is the current kerfuffle cause by a strong dollar or a weak pound?

    Yes.
    OK.

    Very briefly as I have a call...

    The more trouble and instability there is in the world, the more money flies into US dollars as that is the safe haven currency. This in turn means that the US finds it even harder to achieve a trade balance, which means Trump throws more instability into the world.

    Etc.

    Rince and repeat.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,155

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,882
    FPT

    pigeon said:

    FF43 said:

    In answer to the question posed in the header, I think it highly unlikely Starmer will sack Reeves.

    The proximate reason for high bond yield prices now is the same as for Liz Truss: the market doesn't believe future tax revenues will cover future expenditure requirements.

    There's a huge political difference between the two however. In Truss case she didn't see why revenues need to cover expenditure. In Reeves case it's because the market believes it will be politically difficult to either increase taxes or reduce expenditure to balance the books, and both will negatively affect growth. Replacing Reeves doesn't remove that dilemma.

    Your last sentence hits the nail on the head

    It doesn't matter who is COE we have run out of money, room to tax or borrow, so austerity is inevitable

    The problem for Labour is it goes against everything they stand for and is politically toxic
    Austerity isn't inevitable, and there's plenty of room to raise taxes, even without going yet again to the well of earned incomes (which they so stupidly did with the NI hike, which will be paid for yet again by employees in the form of redundancies and wage suppression and not by the shareholders, of course.)

    They should, for example, clobber asset wealth (especially residential property,) shore up the social care sector and local government finances now rather than dicking about with the millionth long-winded review, and reduce future liabilities by abolishing the Triple Lock immediately and pegging the state pension to wages. These things are perfectly possible. To soldier on with, very largely, the same old attitudes is a choice, not an obligation.
    Good luck proposing taxing people's homes and it is Labour who have committed to the triple lock for all this parliament with, Starmer making quite a thing of it at a recent PMQs, following the conservatives saying it is not sustainable

    Also please explain how you shore up social care and local government finances
    Addressing the last point first, if you raise enough money and use it to create a social care system that is adequate to meet demand then the crisis in local government finances mostly disappears, regardless of whether the funds are routed through councils or Whitehall relieves them of the burden of providing the services and takes it on directly. It's also worth remembering that no Government can possibly put the disintegrating healthcare system back on its feet without providing decent social care provision, which will help keep people out of hospital to begin with and solve the enormous bedblocking problem. It's what makes Streeting's obfuscation on the topic wholly understandable in terms of his desire to run away from difficult problems, but also incredibly destructive and ultimately self-defeating.

    The biggest difficulty, as always, is finding the money. And the answer has to be housing because there's no more to be squeezed from incomes: more than 40% of the population are kids, students, pensioners and those too sick or disabled to work, and much of the working age population are in minimum wage crap jobs and have nothing left to give.

    Our lopsided economy funnels immense wealth into overvalued homes. Whether it's through wealth taxes, land value taxes, IHT or CGT on legacies, or some combination of these things, we're never going to cope with the immense burden of an ageing population without syphoning a decent chunk of that wealth off, and at some point someone is going to be forced to do it. It can be presented as a necessary evil to deal with impossibly high health and care costs, and as a mutualisation of risk - so all homeowners and heirs get whacked in a proportionate manner, rather than having a lot of people pay nothing and some lose virtually everything depending on the lottery of ill health - but regardless it has to happen. And I understand why politicians endlessly put the problem off (and when push comes to shove the right wing parties will be even more inclined to keep burying their heads in the sand, because this is going to involve stinging the well off elderly more than anyone else and the grey vote is their core constituency.) They know how very unpopular this is going to be, and I have some sympathy for their predicament. But it is, nonetheless, very cowardly.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,194
    EPG said:

    I think Belfast South 2017 is more relevant: a bunch of liberal and left-wing parties split 66% of the vote, right-wing reactionary party gets 30% and wins.

    Looking at that result, are you lumping SF in with the 'liberal's?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,611
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    I've had a look at my savings spreadsheet and although the pound hasn't been this low against USD since November 2023, it is the highest it's been against the Euro since Feb 2022. Is the current kerfuffle cause by a strong dollar or a weak pound?

    Yes.
    OK.

    Very briefly as I have a call...

    The more trouble and instability there is in the world, the more money flies into US dollars as that is the safe haven currency. This in turn means that the US finds it even harder to achieve a trade balance, which means Trump throws more instability into the world.

    Etc.

    Rince and repeat.
    So just to check I've got this right...

    When most countries go tonto, their currency falls, but when the US goes tonto, their currency... rises?

    Good trick if you can do it, I suppose.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,054

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306
    Cookie said:

    EPG said:

    I think Belfast South 2017 is more relevant: a bunch of liberal and left-wing parties split 66% of the vote, right-wing reactionary party gets 30% and wins.

    Looking at that result, are you lumping SF in with the 'liberal's?
    Bunch of woke lefties.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,155
    edited January 9

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Oh, well if you were about to deploy something she must have crashed the economy - I take it all back.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,844
    Carnyx said:

    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
    It gets better.

    "There seem many other problems with the letter (subject to the missing second page).

    "It sets no deadline.

    "It sets out no ultimatum.

    "It asks for no undertakings.

    "It does not set out what relief or remedies will be sought if Starmer does not comply."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Oh, well if you were about to deploy something she must have crashed the economy - I take it all back.
    There’s a distinction between spooking the markets and crashing the economy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198
    Sean Dyche sacked.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724

    Carnyx said:

    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
    It gets better.

    "There seem many other problems with the letter (subject to the missing second page).

    "It sets no deadline.

    "It sets out no ultimatum.

    "It asks for no undertakings.

    "It does not set out what relief or remedies will be sought if Starmer does not comply."
    And still better - but I won't spoil it.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,966
    edited January 9
    One poll, but I think what Labour and the Tories have to fear the most is a tipping point.

    I mentioned this in the GE campaign . If there were to be a sustained period of Reform outpolling the Tories, such as the VI shown here, and particularly if say this is reinforced by Reform beating the Tories in Wales and Scotland in 2026, there could be a huge and significant shift in the Tory vote over to Reform, as the stop Labour, new party of the right.

    I’m not saying it will definitely happen but it has to be plausible that we go into the next GE with a lot of voters who would have voted Tory reconciled to a Reform vote.



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,142
    If Andy Burnham were on political manoeuvers, then how would he complete them?

    I wouldn't want to try to enter the HoC through a by-election atm, as a Labour MP.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    Entertaining, rather than annoying, of late.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,773
    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    FPTP is generally your friend there, as voters often find a way to exclude those who gain a certain amount of popularity but who everyone else thinks is crackers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,155
    edited January 9

    If Andy Burnham were on political manoeuvers, then how would he complete them?

    I wouldn't want to try to enter the HoC through a by-election atm, as a Labour MP.

    Quite. Especially not the saviour of the party.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Reeves can't even generate the energy to spin up a dynamo.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,457

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    I've had a look at my savings spreadsheet and although the pound hasn't been this low against USD since November 2023, it is the highest it's been against the Euro since Feb 2022. Is the current kerfuffle cause by a strong dollar or a weak pound?

    Yes.
    OK.

    Very briefly as I have a call...

    The more trouble and instability there is in the world, the more money flies into US dollars as that is the safe haven currency. This in turn means that the US finds it even harder to achieve a trade balance, which means Trump throws more instability into the world.

    Etc.

    Rince and repeat.
    So just to check I've got this right...

    When most countries go tonto, their currency falls, but when the US goes tonto, their currency... rises?

    Good trick if you can do it, I suppose.
    It works until people start to conclude that there are better safe haven currencies, then the bottom drops out.

    I fully expect Trump to run a massive governmeny deficit, as per his last term, to fund tax cuts and pork-barrelling. In the short term it will produce good GDP figures, but it's really just giving an alcoholic the keys to the liquor store.

    That's a problem for the long term of course, but he doesn't care that Social Security will be bankrupt by the end of his term, because that's someone else's problem.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,293

    Sean Dyche sacked.

    If they don't have £250m or so to spend in the next couple of transfer windows they will regret that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Reeves can't even generate the energy to spin up a dynamo.
    I rather think the allusion is to Operation Dynamo. Not something Tesla would play with.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737

    Carnyx said:

    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
    It gets better.

    "There seem many other problems with the letter (subject to the missing second page).

    "It sets no deadline.

    "It sets out no ultimatum.

    "It asks for no undertakings.

    "It does not set out what relief or remedies will be sought if Starmer does not comply."
    "I am instructing lawyers to write to you to say that I am very cross."
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,054

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    Neither did (although Liz Truss caused a genuine funding crisis). If our economy ever does truly "crash" it won't be down to whoever happens to be in government at the time. Course they'll have to own it. That's how it is.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Reeves can't even generate the energy to spin up a dynamo.
    I rather think the allusion is to Operation Dynamo. Not something Tesla would play with.
    So with Reeves, they're polishing up Operation Defibrillator ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,844
    People are getting very excited about this new poll. It is exciting. But it's still 4.5 years until an election.

    Here's the 2024 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 49% result 24% - 25pp fall
    Lab poll 30% result 35% - 5pp rise
    LD poll 8% result 13% - 5pp rise
    Green poll 5% result 7% - 2pp rise
    Brexit/Reform UK poll 2% result 15% - 13pp rise

    Here's the 2010 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 36% result 38% - 2pp rise
    Lab poll 38% result 31% - 7pp fall
    LD poll 14% result 8% - 6pp fall
    Green poll 2% result 4% - 2pp rise
    UKIP poll 3% result 13% - 10pp rise
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,198
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Reeves can't even generate the energy to spin up a dynamo.
    WWII historians should be able to work out why I named it Project Dynamo.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,293
    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Can't think of much that could boost Labour more in the short term than Truss trying to defend her record in a court case vs Starmer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,200

    Carnyx said:

    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
    It gets better.

    "There seem many other problems with the letter (subject to the missing second page).

    "It sets no deadline.

    "It sets out no ultimatum.

    "It asks for no undertakings.

    "It does not set out what relief or remedies will be sought if Starmer does not comply."
    Yes. But she knows where he lives.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
    It gets better.

    "There seem many other problems with the letter (subject to the missing second page).

    "It sets no deadline.

    "It sets out no ultimatum.

    "It asks for no undertakings.

    "It does not set out what relief or remedies will be sought if Starmer does not comply."
    "I am instructing lawyers to write to you to say that I am very cross."
    Kim Jong Il: Hans Brix? Oh no! Oh, herro. Great to see you again, Hans!

    Hans Blix: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, but your guards won't let me enter certain areas.

    Kim Jong Il: Hans, Hans, Hans! We've been frew this a dozen times. I don't have any weapons of mass destwuction, OK Hans?

    Hans Blix: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN's collective mind.

    Kim Jong Il: Hans, you're breakin' my barrs here, Hans, you're breakin' my barrs!

    Hans Blix: I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.

    Kim Jong Il: Or else what?

    Hans Blix: Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Reeves can't even generate the energy to spin up a dynamo.
    WWII historians should be able to work out why I named it Project Dynamo.
    Ah, the Dunkirk Spirit!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,200

    One poll, but I think what Labour and the Tories have to fear the most is a tipping point.

    I mentioned this in the GE campaign . If there were to be a sustained period of Reform outpolling the Tories, such as the VI shown here, and particularly if say this is reinforced by Reform beating the Tories in Wales and Scotland in 2026, there could be a huge and significant shift in the Tory vote over to Reform, as the stop Labour, new party of the right.

    I’m not saying it will definitely happen but it has to be plausible that we go into the next GE with a lot of voters who would have voted Tory reconciled to a Reform vote.



    A hell of a lot of Tory voters, past and present, will still never vote for Reform.
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 252
    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,494
    Cookie said:

    EPG said:

    I think Belfast South 2017 is more relevant: a bunch of liberal and left-wing parties split 66% of the vote, right-wing reactionary party gets 30% and wins.

    Looking at that result, are you lumping SF in with the 'liberal's?
    Looks like it. 😳
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,293

    People are getting very excited about this new poll. It is exciting. But it's still 4.5 years until an election.

    Here's the 2024 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 49% result 24% - 25pp fall
    Lab poll 30% result 35% - 5pp rise
    LD poll 8% result 13% - 5pp rise
    Green poll 5% result 7% - 2pp rise
    Brexit/Reform UK poll 2% result 15% - 13pp rise

    Here's the 2010 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 36% result 38% - 2pp rise
    Lab poll 38% result 31% - 7pp fall
    LD poll 14% result 8% - 6pp fall
    Green poll 2% result 4% - 2pp rise
    UKIP poll 3% result 13% - 10pp rise

    So you think we should add 10-13% to the Refukkers?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Can't think of much that could boost Labour more in the short term than Truss trying to defend her record in a court case vs Starmer.
    Could the five-letter word 'Trusk' neatly encapsulate most things that are wrong with the world today?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306

    Sean Dyche sacked.

    Potter to replace Lopetegui.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,378

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    I think radical right is a better term.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,966

    One poll, but I think what Labour and the Tories have to fear the most is a tipping point.

    I mentioned this in the GE campaign . If there were to be a sustained period of Reform outpolling the Tories, such as the VI shown here, and particularly if say this is reinforced by Reform beating the Tories in Wales and Scotland in 2026, there could be a huge and significant shift in the Tory vote over to Reform, as the stop Labour, new party of the right.

    I’m not saying it will definitely happen but it has to be plausible that we go into the next GE with a lot of voters who would have voted Tory reconciled to a Reform vote.



    A hell of a lot of Tory voters, past and present, will still never vote for Reform.
    I think if push comes to shove that number is fewer than you think.

    I concede there are a chunk of politically homeless, typically centre-right-leaning voters who can’t really envisage a vote for Reform. I’m one of them. Goodness knows who I’ll vote for at the next GE at the moment.

    But for every one of those voters I think there’s a voter who wouldn’t have Farage as their first choice but if it’s seen as the right wing choice, they will hold their nose and vote Reform.

    I may be wrong.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    Japanese newspaper reports on Yoon's heavy drinking habits, mentions of martial law

    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=389972
    ...Citing a former cabinet minister under the Yoon administration who dined with the president several times, Asahi reported, "Yoon began bringing up the term ‘martial law' more frequently in gatherings after the ruling party's crushing defeat in the April elections last year. His stress levels and alcohol consumption increased as well."

    According to the report, Yoon often drank at venues such as a government residence in Samcheong-dong, Seoul. These gatherings typically included samgyeopsal (grilled pork belly), paired with rounds of "somaek" — a shot of soju mixed with beer. Apparently, Yoon drank up to 20 glasses of somaek in a single sitting.

    The former minister said, "Most people fill their somaek glasses halfway, but the president filled his to the brim. While drinking, the president would criticize opposition politicians, though he sometimes directed criticism at ruling party members as well."

    The report speculated that this habit may stem from Yoon's days as a prosecutor when he drank a mix of whiskey and beer called "Ten-Ten." This potent drink, designed for quick intoxication, was said to be popular among prosecutors.

    A former foreign affairs aide from Yoon's administration revealed that these drinking sessions frequently lasted until dawn.

    Asahi also reported that Yoon became heavily influenced by far-right YouTube channels amid declining approval ratings and criticism of his unilateral governance style...

    I mean, 20 is a lot, but they're not huge:



    Looks like it depends how much Soju you add and how strong the Soju is - it can vary hugely.
    OK, thinking about this, the usual shot size for soju in Korea is 2oz (just under 60ml). And the favoured beer mixer is the Jinro Chamisul Original, which is around 20% alcohol.

    So 20 glasses, even if containing almost no beer at all, would be equivalent to 600ml of whiskey...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,293

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    I think radical right is a better term.
    Are Refuk radical? Or deluded charlatans?

    I don't think they are far right but not radical either. Just populist grifters for hire to the elite.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,054
    MJW said:

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    FPTP is generally your friend there, as voters often find a way to exclude those who gain a certain amount of popularity but who everyone else thinks is crackers.
    This is what I'm hoping. People will be polarised into 2 camps, ok with it vs repelled by it, and the latter group will (a) be larger and (b) being by definition smarter too will vote in a way that maximises their FPTP impact.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,458
    edited January 9
    Would PR or AV make much difference now though? On the Find Out Now poll with FPTP it would be a hung parliament with Labour and Reform both well short of a majority and the Tories, LDs and SNP having the balance of power.

    With PR it would also be a hung parliament with Labour and Reform well short of a majority, the only difference is the Greens would join the Tories and LDs in holding the balance of power not the SNP
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,282
    viewcode said:

    I've had a look at my savings spreadsheet and although the pound hasn't been this low against USD since November 2023, it is the highest it's been against the Euro since Feb 2022. Is the current kerfuffle cause by a strong dollar or a weak pound?

    Both.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737
    Currently trending on X... #liztrusscrashedtheeconomy
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,494
    Talking of Richard Murphy, as he was mentioned on the previous thread, here he is on Vine today claiming that Musk and Traders have conspired against Rachel Reeves on purpose in the market.

    🤡🤡🤡🤡

    https://x.com/v_j_freeman/status/1877352083898126725?s=61
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,611

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    She spooked the markets.

    At work we were about to deploy Project Dynamo which is only to be used when the shit hits the fan.
    Reeves can't even generate the energy to spin up a dynamo.
    WWII historians should be able to work out why I named it Project Dynamo.
    There I was, assuming that it was a nod to Ed Miliband- use the dynamo to turn the fan into a turbine...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,457
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    "This blogpost will not mention or refer to the law firm.

    This is because we simply do not know what Truss’s instructions were to the law firm nor what advice they gave her about sending this letter.

    It may well be that that the letter was sent against legal advice.

    It may even be that the letter was sent against emphatic legal advice.

    We just do not know.

    One should not visit the sins (or otherwise) of the client upon their lawyers."
    It gets better.

    "There seem many other problems with the letter (subject to the missing second page).

    "It sets no deadline.

    "It sets out no ultimatum.

    "It asks for no undertakings.

    "It does not set out what relief or remedies will be sought if Starmer does not comply."
    "I am instructing lawyers to write to you to say that I am very cross."
    Surely that should be very Cos?
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,494
    Nigelb said:

    Currently trending on X... #liztrusscrashedtheeconomy

    As I said in the previous thread. The Streisand Effect
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,494

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    I think radical right is a better term.
    Are Refuk radical? Or deluded charlatans?

    I don't think they are far right but not radical either. Just populist grifters for hire to the elite.
    Totally unlike any other political party or politicians.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,458

    One poll, but I think what Labour and the Tories have to fear the most is a tipping point.

    I mentioned this in the GE campaign . If there were to be a sustained period of Reform outpolling the Tories, such as the VI shown here, and particularly if say this is reinforced by Reform beating the Tories in Wales and Scotland in 2026, there could be a huge and significant shift in the Tory vote over to Reform, as the stop Labour, new party of the right.

    I’m not saying it will definitely happen but it has to be plausible that we go into the next GE with a lot of voters who would have voted Tory reconciled to a Reform vote.



    A hell of a lot of Tory voters, past and present, will still never vote for Reform.
    I think if push comes to shove that number is fewer than you think.

    I concede there are a chunk of politically homeless, typically centre-right-leaning voters who can’t really envisage a vote for Reform. I’m one of them. Goodness knows who I’ll vote for at the next GE at the moment.

    But for every one of those voters I think there’s a voter who wouldn’t have Farage as their first choice but if it’s seen as the right wing choice, they will hold their nose and vote Reform.

    I may be wrong.
    Most 2024 Tory voters would vote Reform over Labour but at least half the 2024 Tory vote would vote LD over Reform I suspect
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,306
    Nigelb said:

    Currently trending on X... #liztrusscrashedtheeconomy

    What's a young man like you doing on X? :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,458
    Nigelb said:

    On the topic of provocative suggestions.

    Support Among Republicans A Constitutional Amendment Allowing Trump To Run For A 3rd Term

    🔴 Support 53% (+25)
    🔵 Oppose 28%

    @J_L_Partners | 1,006 RV

    https://x.com/OpenSourceZone/status/1876682047617671291

    Obama will still be in his 60s by then..

    Doesn't mean much given only just over 50% of Congress are Republicans and it needs 2/3 of Congress to agree a Constitutional Amendment so still miles short (unless Democrats thought it could enable an Obama v Trump 2028 election)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,054

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    I think radical right is a better term.
    Are Refuk radical? Or deluded charlatans?

    I don't think they are far right but not radical either. Just populist grifters for hire to the elite.
    Yes, plenty of grift in there. Eg the risible Tate.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,293
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    I think radical right is a better term.
    Are Refuk radical? Or deluded charlatans?

    I don't think they are far right but not radical either. Just populist grifters for hire to the elite.
    Totally unlike any other political party or politicians.
    Pretty different to the other parties yeah. Some individual politicians a bit closer.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,844

    People are getting very excited about this new poll. It is exciting. But it's still 4.5 years until an election.

    Here's the 2024 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 49% result 24% - 25pp fall
    Lab poll 30% result 35% - 5pp rise
    LD poll 8% result 13% - 5pp rise
    Green poll 5% result 7% - 2pp rise
    Brexit/Reform UK poll 2% result 15% - 13pp rise

    Here's the 2010 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 36% result 38% - 2pp rise
    Lab poll 38% result 31% - 7pp fall
    LD poll 14% result 8% - 6pp fall
    Green poll 2% result 4% - 2pp rise
    UKIP poll 3% result 13% - 10pp rise

    So you think we should add 10-13% to the Refukkers?
    And subtract 25pp from the Tories. Who are currently on 20%. The Greens up 2. Lab and LibDems could go either way. They'll have to go up to make the numbers add up. Ergo we can predict...

    🔴 Labour: 31%
    🟦 Reform UK: 37%
    🔵 Conservatives: 0%
    🟢 Greens: 13%
    🟠 Lib Dems: 16%

    Then we put that into Electoral Calculus, which will of course work perfectly, and ta da...

    Reform UK 296
    Labour 243
    LibDem 69
    Green 4
    SNP 8
    PC 3
    Northern Ireland 18
    others 9

    Clearly a Lab/LD minority govt. Lab + LD + SDLP + APNI would be 315. Presuming SF 7, you need about 321 for a majority. Presume SNP, Greens and others won't vote down the government.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,844
    Nigelb said:

    Currently trending on X... #liztrusscrashedtheeconomy

    #Streisandeffect
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 252

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    He isn't calling everyone who disagree with him "far right". He's implying Musk and Trump are far right.

    Musk has called for military force to overthrow the democratically-elected government and the immediate release of a violent repeat offender who led the English Defence League. There are also the tweets where Musk endorsed a Holocaust denier and where he said Jews were conspiring to flood the US with immigrants. If that's not far right, what is?

    Trump has said he will deport US citizens, which would be in contravention of the US Constitution. He has spread conspiracy theories about immigrants. He is threatening to invade several countries because he wants their land. He encouraged a violent riot to try to overturn a democratic election 4 years ago. Again, seems pretty far right to me.
    Starmer has spent the last six months deliberately calling everyone who disagrees with him 'far right'. It will inevitably back-fire, as it is a lie. Like all of his other lies.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,293

    People are getting very excited about this new poll. It is exciting. But it's still 4.5 years until an election.

    Here's the 2024 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 49% result 24% - 25pp fall
    Lab poll 30% result 35% - 5pp rise
    LD poll 8% result 13% - 5pp rise
    Green poll 5% result 7% - 2pp rise
    Brexit/Reform UK poll 2% result 15% - 13pp rise

    Here's the 2010 result and here's a poll 4.5 years earlier:
    Con poll 36% result 38% - 2pp rise
    Lab poll 38% result 31% - 7pp fall
    LD poll 14% result 8% - 6pp fall
    Green poll 2% result 4% - 2pp rise
    UKIP poll 3% result 13% - 10pp rise

    So you think we should add 10-13% to the Refukkers?
    And subtract 25pp from the Tories. Who are currently on 20%. The Greens up 2. Lab and LibDems could go either way. They'll have to go up to make the numbers add up. Ergo we can predict...

    🔴 Labour: 31%
    🟦 Reform UK: 37%
    🔵 Conservatives: 0%
    🟢 Greens: 13%
    🟠 Lib Dems: 16%

    Then we put that into Electoral Calculus, which will of course work perfectly, and ta da...

    Reform UK 296
    Labour 243
    LibDem 69
    Green 4
    SNP 8
    PC 3
    Northern Ireland 18
    others 9

    Clearly a Lab/LD minority govt. Lab + LD + SDLP + APNI would be 315. Presuming SF 7, you need about 321 for a majority. Presume SNP, Greens and others won't vote down the government.
    The %s could be ok with a merger/takeover on the right. But would see a clear Refcon seat majority imo.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,239

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    I don't think she is annoying anyone anymore. She is just being laughed at.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,698

    One poll, but I think what Labour and the Tories have to fear the most is a tipping point.

    I mentioned this in the GE campaign . If there were to be a sustained period of Reform outpolling the Tories, such as the VI shown here, and particularly if say this is reinforced by Reform beating the Tories in Wales and Scotland in 2026, there could be a huge and significant shift in the Tory vote over to Reform, as the stop Labour, new party of the right.

    I’m not saying it will definitely happen but it has to be plausible that we go into the next GE with a lot of voters who would have voted Tory reconciled to a Reform vote.


    A hell of a lot of Tory voters, past and present, will still never vote for Reform.
    At a certain point, negative polarisation will push up both the Tories and Reform.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,698

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    I don't think she is annoying anyone anymore. She is just being laughed at.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,844
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    On the topic of provocative suggestions.

    Support Among Republicans A Constitutional Amendment Allowing Trump To Run For A 3rd Term

    🔴 Support 53% (+25)
    🔵 Oppose 28%

    @J_L_Partners | 1,006 RV

    https://x.com/OpenSourceZone/status/1876682047617671291

    Obama will still be in his 60s by then..

    Doesn't mean much given only just over 50% of Congress are Republicans and it needs 2/3 of Congress to agree a Constitutional Amendment so still miles short (unless Democrats thought it could enable an Obama v Trump 2028 election)
    The 22nd Amendment was pushed by Republicans to stop FDR.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,457
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    I think radical right is a better term.
    Are Refuk radical? Or deluded charlatans?

    I don't think they are far right but not radical either. Just populist grifters for hire to the elite.
    Yes, plenty of grift in there. Eg the risible Tate.
    Is Tate anything to do with RefUK? I thought he was BRUV.

    RefUK are more incoherent than radical. It's the nature of Populism.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,844

    kinabalu said:

    Its one poll and its very amusing. The trend? Less amusing. Unless there is some kind of radical change in performance from Labour the conclusion that they have failed will be hard to avoid. The Tories? Failed hard, elected woke Queen, failing harder.

    That leaves a vacuum and all kinds of things will get sucked in. Reform don't need to offer very much substantial to do very well - just show that they understand.

    This is a poll in January 2025 showing mega-splittage and Reform doing very well. A map with an awful lot of purple on it. Now extend the trend forward and think what could be the same poll in 12 months time. Or 24 months...

    The far right are on the march and are going to take some stopping, esp with Trump/Musk rolling the pitch. Can we avoid going that way here? Hope so, think so, but I am anxious about it. You think this sort of stuff can't gain critical mass in the UK until, oh, it has and it's here. Then what.
    Probably the best way of stopping the far right is to stop calling everyone who disagrees with 'you' far right, then maybe some of that anxiety might dissipate.
    He isn't calling everyone who disagree with him "far right". He's implying Musk and Trump are far right.

    Musk has called for military force to overthrow the democratically-elected government and the immediate release of a violent repeat offender who led the English Defence League. There are also the tweets where Musk endorsed a Holocaust denier and where he said Jews were conspiring to flood the US with immigrants. If that's not far right, what is?

    Trump has said he will deport US citizens, which would be in contravention of the US Constitution. He has spread conspiracy theories about immigrants. He is threatening to invade several countries because he wants their land. He encouraged a violent riot to try to overturn a democratic election 4 years ago. Again, seems pretty far right to me.
    Starmer has spent the last six months deliberately calling everyone who disagrees with him 'far right'. It will inevitably back-fire, as it is a lie. Like all of his other lies.
    Who has Starmer called "far right" who isn't far right?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,239
    HYUFD said:

    If Andy Burnham were on political manoeuvers, then how would he complete them?

    I wouldn't want to try to enter the HoC through a by-election atm, as a Labour MP.

    His 'manoeuver' is actually only to call for an inquiry into the grooming gangs unlike Starmer
    https://x.com/Inevitablewest/status/1877377006611939723
    If that isn't rolling the pitch I don't know what is. I think Burnham is more impressive in his own mind than everyone else's, except perhaps BJO.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737

    Nigelb said:

    Currently trending on X... #liztrusscrashedtheeconomy

    What's a young man like you doing on X? :lol:
    It marks the spot.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,239

    One poll, but I think what Labour and the Tories have to fear the most is a tipping point.

    I mentioned this in the GE campaign . If there were to be a sustained period of Reform outpolling the Tories, such as the VI shown here, and particularly if say this is reinforced by Reform beating the Tories in Wales and Scotland in 2026, there could be a huge and significant shift in the Tory vote over to Reform, as the stop Labour, new party of the right.

    I’m not saying it will definitely happen but it has to be plausible that we go into the next GE with a lot of voters who would have voted Tory reconciled to a Reform vote.


    A hell of a lot of Tory voters, past and present, will still never vote for Reform.
    At a certain point, negative polarisation will push up both the Tories and Reform.
    I am not sure how you reach that answer. Please show your workings.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,737

    Andy_JS said:

    "Truss legal threat to PM over claim she crashed economy"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7r7pjy8j1o

    Haven't we done this already? And the analysis concluded that she is a clown.
    Most PB shrewdies concluded long ago that Truss had 'crashed the economy', and don't take kindly to facts getting in the way, even though Rachel Reeves has come in and helpfully given them a live demonstration on how to *actually* crash an economy.

    Long may Truss keep annoying them.
    I don't think she is annoying anyone anymore. She is just being laughed at.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you...
    Her trajectory is in the opposite direction, though.

    Win > fight > laugh....

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