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The Law of Unintended Consequences – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    RobD said:

    Good article.

    Out of interest, is it a potential infringement of the Online Safety Act to forbid discussion of things? Could someone argue that they have been harmed by having perfectly reasonable content they posted removed or that they were harmed because they were denied access to this perfectly reasonable content?

    Can someone be harmed by nothing?
    Only if it is a complete Snowflake's Charter...

    Would the man on the Clapham Omnibus clutch his pearls and swoon? If not, then the commentariat should be safe.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637

    Is it me or are we lacking polls at the moment?

    8 in the last month;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Some of the pre-election players (YouGov, R+W) haven't popped their little noses out of their burrows since the election. Whether that's because they are still applying sticky tape to their models, or the papers (mostly) aren't paying for VI any more, you would have to ask them.

    Incidentally, looking at that summary, some of the older players (Opinium, Deltapoll, Survation) seem to be less bad for Labour than the newbies. Which isn't to say that they're right...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,135
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Surely the archetypal battle axe is/was Margaret Rutherford. Oh and Alastair Sim while we're at it.

    Thora Hird beats both of those.
    I’m old enough to remember Peggy Mount.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    TOPPING said:

    Surely the archetypal battle axe is/was Margaret Rutherford. Oh and Alastair Sim while we're at it.

    Joan Hickson in any seventies sitcom.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Whatever happened to the archtype of the battleaxe? It seems to have been displaced by 'Rachel from accounts'.
    I always thought Maggie Smith was especially good, as this archetype.
    Another view of the battleaxe archetype is that it's a harmful stereotype, as expounded in this recent book.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/hags/victoria-smith/9780349726984
    Battleaxes were respected. Or feared. There was an element of authority about them. The point about the Hags book is that the use of such insults is a way of diminishing the value and authority of older women - not just by men but by younger women as well.
    Yes, I think it's essentially a polemic against the Karen slur. I've not read it, only read the reviews.
    The problem with polemics against the Karen slur, is that the Karen type exists and has been shown on video recording on multiple occasions.

    The following is photographic evidence of a Karen in the wild


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Mum just called me a 50 year-old man-child! (don't ask!)

    But I think this most unfair - I don't turn 50 for another 10 months!
    I believe many of us here would get on well with your forthright mother.

    Although whether she would be OSA compliant is perhaps open for discussion.

    But, not a discussion here, obviously...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Whatever happened to the archtype of the battleaxe? It seems to have been displaced by 'Rachel from accounts'.
    I always thought Maggie Smith was especially good, as this archetype.
    Another view of the battleaxe archetype is that it's a harmful stereotype, as expounded in this recent book.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/hags/victoria-smith/9780349726984
    Battleaxes were respected. Or feared. There was an element of authority about them. The point about the Hags book is that the use of such insults is a way of diminishing the value and authority of older women - not just by men but by younger women as well.
    Tried to think of a male equivalent term but couldn't. So there you go.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Whatever happened to the archtype of the battleaxe? It seems to have been displaced by 'Rachel from accounts'.
    I always thought Maggie Smith was especially good, as this archetype.
    Another view of the battleaxe archetype is that it's a harmful stereotype, as expounded in this recent book.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/hags/victoria-smith/9780349726984
    Battleaxes were respected. Or feared. There was an element of authority about them. The point about the Hags book is that the use of such insults is a way of diminishing the value and authority of older women - not just by men but by younger women as well.
    Tried to think of a male equivalent term but couldn't. So there you go.
    Cantankerous Old Barstewards?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,241
    TOPPING said:

    Surely the archetypal battle axe is/was Margaret Rutherford. Oh and Alastair Sim while we're at it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyuoUwxCLMs
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Whatever happened to the archtype of the battleaxe? It seems to have been displaced by 'Rachel from accounts'.
    I always thought Maggie Smith was especially good, as this archetype.
    Another view of the battleaxe archetype is that it's a harmful stereotype, as expounded in this recent book.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/hags/victoria-smith/9780349726984
    Battleaxes were respected. Or feared. There was an element of authority about them. The point about the Hags book is that the use of such insults is a way of diminishing the value and authority of older women - not just by men but by younger women as well.
    Yes, I think it's essentially a polemic against the Karen slur. I've not read it, only read the reviews.
    The problem with polemics against the Karen slur, is that the Karen type exists and has been shown on video recording on multiple occasions.

    The following is photographic evidence of a Karen in the wild


    Surely "Karen" is a grievous racist slur against the Karen people of Burma?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_people
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,689

    Some, at last of the 'confusion' is caused, I suspect by the 'difficult' language used. I'm aware of a group of senior citizens who are extremely concerned about this and and consequently trying to make the language used in legislation less, perhaps, opaque. Their leaders thoughts can be understood perhaps, by part of his website introduction, viz:
    "How can things be improved? You may have heard about “Citizen Scientists” who are being recruited to help scientists analyse the huge amounts of information being gathered by recent advances in the technology employed. So, can “citizen legal advisers” be employed from the ranks of the U3A to help draft and propose improvements to legislation? While some knowledge of legal matters would be required in the team, there is a great need for some people to review legislation and comment along the lines of “I don’t understand this – it needs to be rewritten in a way that lay people can understand”.

    Have a look at u3acommunities.org; improving legislation.

    I thought U3A was just Tinder for wrinklies?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,362
    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Mum just called me a 50 year-old man-child! (don't ask!)

    But I think this most unfair - I don't turn 50 for another 10 months!
    I thought your mother only ever appears offscreen and unseen, with only her voice being heard. This allows for fanfic to "fill in the blanks" and many entries on DeviantArt. Mostly in pencil
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861

    Some, at last of the 'confusion' is caused, I suspect by the 'difficult' language used. I'm aware of a group of senior citizens who are extremely concerned about this and and consequently trying to make the language used in legislation less, perhaps, opaque. Their leaders thoughts can be understood perhaps, by part of his website introduction, viz:
    "How can things be improved? You may have heard about “Citizen Scientists” who are being recruited to help scientists analyse the huge amounts of information being gathered by recent advances in the technology employed. So, can “citizen legal advisers” be employed from the ranks of the U3A to help draft and propose improvements to legislation? While some knowledge of legal matters would be required in the team, there is a great need for some people to review legislation and comment along the lines of “I don’t understand this – it needs to be rewritten in a way that lay people can understand”.

    Have a look at u3acommunities.org; improving legislation.

    I thought U3A was just Tinder for wrinklies?
    No, nothing like it. Meeting place, either 'for real' or on line for 'wrinklies' (I'll give you that) who want to keep their minds active.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,362
    edited January 8
    kinabalu said:

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
    Obviously the burden of proof is now on the Governor, who must eat seven of said fish, raw, bones and all, to demonstrate his contempt for them.

    His kind of wokery makes me so angry I could throw the phone down. He may as well go and live in Greenland.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    edited January 8
    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Mum just called me a 50 year-old man-child! (don't ask!)

    But I think this most unfair - I don't turn 50 for another 10 months!
    I thought your mother only ever appears offscreen and unseen, with only her voice being heard. This allows for fanfic to "fill in the blanks" and many entries on DeviantArt. Mostly in pencil
    "Howard, er, I mean, Sunil!"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Whatever happened to the archtype of the battleaxe? It seems to have been displaced by 'Rachel from accounts'.
    I always thought Maggie Smith was especially good, as this archetype.
    Another view of the battleaxe archetype is that it's a harmful stereotype, as expounded in this recent book.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/hags/victoria-smith/9780349726984
    Battleaxes were respected. Or feared. There was an element of authority about them. The point about the Hags book is that the use of such insults is a way of diminishing the value and authority of older women - not just by men but by younger women as well.
    Tried to think of a male equivalent term but couldn't. So there you go.
    Cantankerous Old Barstewards?
    Well I've certainly come across a few of them. One or two on here!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,362
    edited January 8
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,689

    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'll admit to having been lazy on this one. I don't fully understand the OSA in detail. But the first question I would ask is - What problem is it intended to solve? Child pornography? Kids being psychologically damaged by online content? Political manipulation? Lies? Defamation?

    Would the Labour Party be facing legal action for the video they posted on tiktok containing a song with 'questionable' lyrics?

    The motivation was the suicide of a teenage girl, where it emerged that she'd been encouraged to commit suicide by people online. So there's a pretty clear example of very serious harm following from people's actions online.

    The legislation does not seem to be laser-focused on that level of seriousness of harm.
    Lots of things cause suicide, job loss, divorce, being a sub postmaster etc....should we make those illegal too? Suicide due to bullying has always been with us long before the days of social media. The OSA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut in respect of that.

    The truth is the bill is about one thing and why we see it's like in many countries. Prior to social media publishing was a one to many thing and governments could control what people had information on. The internet ruined that for them and ever since they have been seeking a way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    Of course the internet like everything powerful is a two edged sword and along with more information comes more misinformation. However we always had that too from the main stream press
    There are many reasons why people commit suicide. There is rarely just one cause and those charities dealing with it always advocate caution about blaming it on one factor alone. Sad as that case was, we only heard the father's story. It is understandable why he might blame what his daughter was seeing online for her death. But that avoids asking some other tough questions about what else was going on and why she was spending so long online. And - brutal as this might sound - is one sad case a sufficient basis for a law which has 241 sections, 12 parts and 17 schedules and still requires loads more regulations and guidance?
    There was a time when I was about 14 when I was bullied at school. That was in the 50's when the standard advice was 'fight back'.
    Not so easy when it's one against 10 or so, plus most of the rest of the form.
    So sometimes thought about suicide; jumping in front of one of the trains on the nearby railway and so on. That would get all the problems over with.
    Obviously I didn't and the problems did go away, but I was glad to go 300 miles from home for higher education. By the time I came back 'home' I was a married man with a family and teenage angst was something I was expecting to have to talk to my children about eventually.
    But if I'd been looking at what everyone else was posting on my phone ......
    Yes, that's the problem nowadays. The internet and social media don't forget.
    Thinking of something I am not particularly proud of from schooldays, I once gate-crashed a party I had not been invited to.
    Now I was the talk of the 6th form common room for a few days, but next week two other kids became an "item", that became the big topic, and I was forgotten about.
    Today a record would be kept.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    kinabalu said:

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
    Yes.

    Because he'd already murdered all of them. Can't kill people twice. That would be crazy!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TimS said:

    Fishing said:

    biggles said:

    On topic (excellent header) this is one of the reasons I keep wondering about moving the executive out of Parliament altogether. It might encourage proper scrutiny if that was how even the government benches had to make a name for themselves.

    I doubt it.

    The Americans have powers that are about as separate as practicable, and their legislation is just as poorly drafted and loophole-ridden as ours.

    A lot of the problem isn't so much the scrutiny, though obviously that's important - it's the extremely poor early drafts written in government departments. In neither the UK nor the US do the best law students go into government work - when you can earn four times as much at a white shoe law firm or in house in an investment bank, why would you? And those few that do are mostly just using it to build their contact lists for later employment as lobbyists or in house. So government lawyers do, with honourable exceptions, tend to be the dregs of the profession.

    At least that was my experience from my time in government.
    There's probably a chunk of that- though it takes us back to the possiblity that we are getting exactly the quality of public service that we are willing to pay for (taking pay, pensions and working conditions as a whole).

    But also- are we expecting laws to do something that can't be done? The ideal is to perfectly demarcate acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, and that's just not possible. No, I don't know what we do about that.
    If it's about demarcating acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, then surely a parliament of 650 school teachers would be ideal. Are you and @ydoethur ready to step up and do your duty?
    Mothers.
    Margaret Thatcher was a mother.
    OK OK - mothers like me. Or my own mother. Or any of my aunts. They never stood for any nonsense at all. Battle axes - in short.

    As described here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/02/battleaxe-alan-bennett-matriarch-extinction
    Whatever happened to the archtype of the battleaxe? It seems to have been displaced by 'Rachel from accounts'.
    I always thought Maggie Smith was especially good, as this archetype.
    Another view of the battleaxe archetype is that it's a harmful stereotype, as expounded in this recent book.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/hags/victoria-smith/9780349726984
    Battleaxes were respected. Or feared. There was an element of authority about them. The point about the Hags book is that the use of such insults is a way of diminishing the value and authority of older women - not just by men but by younger women as well.
    Tried to think of a male equivalent term but couldn't. So there you go.
    Cantankerous Old Barstewards?
    "That's a bingo!"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
    Obviously the burden of proof is now on the Governor, who must eat seven of said fish, raw, bones and all, to demonstrate his contempt for them.

    His kind of wokery makes me so angry I could throw the phone down. He may as well go and live in Greenland.
    Needn't bother, that's his chances for WH28 gone already. No way will America vote for a guy who values fish more than people, esp an essentially worthless one called a smelt.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,986

    Is it me or are we lacking polls at the moment?

    8 in the last month;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Some of the pre-election players (YouGov, R+W) haven't popped their little noses out of their burrows since the election. Whether that's because they are still applying sticky tape to their models, or the papers (mostly) aren't paying for VI any more, you would have to ask them.

    Incidentally, looking at that summary, some of the older players (Opinium, Deltapoll, Survation) seem to be less bad for Labour than the newbies. Which isn't to say that they're right...
    Alternatively one since 20 December. That's nearly three weeks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,314

    RobD said:

    Good article.

    Out of interest, is it a potential infringement of the Online Safety Act to forbid discussion of things? Could someone argue that they have been harmed by having perfectly reasonable content they posted removed or that they were harmed because they were denied access to this perfectly reasonable content?

    Can someone be harmed by nothing?
    Only if it is a complete Snowflake's Charter...

    Would the man on the Clapham Omnibus clutch his pearls and swoon? If not, then the commentariat should be safe.
    As I've said, the way it's written it doesn't require any actual people to feel/be harmed the specific wording only requires for there to be perceived or potential harm in the words. No one needs to make a complaint for action to be taken by police and it's a certainty that police forces with arrest and conviction targets to meet will see this as an easy way to get guilty convictions to bolster their stats. They already do this with hate speech laws.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,771
    Spectator TV interviews former Truss economist J Jessop (not PB's one):-

    “She has zero credibility” – is Rachel Reeves making bigger mistakes than Liz Truss?

    The UK’s long-term government borrowing costs hit the highest level since 1998 this week. This creates huge problems for the chancellor, considering Rachel Reeves plans to borrow hundreds of billions of pounds to fund higher public investment and spending.

    Have Labour created more economic problems than they’ve solved? Will Labour be hiking taxes again? And is Rachel Reeves making just as many mistakes as Liz Truss? Economics editor Kate Andrews is joined by independent economist Julian Jessop.

    //CHAPTERS
    00:00 - Introduction
    00:31 - Bond market jitters and rising borrowing costs
    02:08 - £12 billion debt interest crisis explained
    04:17 - Mini-budget fallout vs. today's economic challenges
    07:22 - Inflation, stagflation, and economic warning signs
    10:34 - The problem of record debt and state expansion
    12:43 - Stagflation lite: what it means for the UK
    14:45 - Why UK economic growth has stagnated

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVh2eaVVerA
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    Some, at last of the 'confusion' is caused, I suspect by the 'difficult' language used. I'm aware of a group of senior citizens who are extremely concerned about this and and consequently trying to make the language used in legislation less, perhaps, opaque. Their leaders thoughts can be understood perhaps, by part of his website introduction, viz:
    "How can things be improved? You may have heard about “Citizen Scientists” who are being recruited to help scientists analyse the huge amounts of information being gathered by recent advances in the technology employed. So, can “citizen legal advisers” be employed from the ranks of the U3A to help draft and propose improvements to legislation? While some knowledge of legal matters would be required in the team, there is a great need for some people to review legislation and comment along the lines of “I don’t understand this – it needs to be rewritten in a way that lay people can understand”.

    Have a look at u3acommunities.org; improving legislation.

    I thought U3A was just Tinder for wrinklies?
    No, nothing like it. Meeting place, either 'for real' or on line for 'wrinklies' (I'll give you that) who want to keep their minds active.
    My father (retired philosopher) wrote to the Home Office, regarding some finer points of their naturalisation legislation. It was in connection with my step-mother's citizenship.

    17 pages, in which he demonstrated that the clauses in question were contradictory, illogical and useless.

    A somewhat apologetic (and almost frightened) letter arrived, conceding all his points, granting the application with regard to my step-mother and offering him a part time job parsing legislation.

    He asked me what I thought. I suggested that he take the role, at 4x the offered hourly rate. The reduction in personnel at the Home Office would noticeably reduce our tax bills - they would be running in fear out of the building.

    Sadly, he decided not to take them up on the idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    Ok, well that is a recent change, albeit a welcome one.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2024-1411166/afghanistan-vs-australia-48th-match-super-eights-group-1-1415748/live-cricket-score
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,908

    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'll admit to having been lazy on this one. I don't fully understand the OSA in detail. But the first question I would ask is - What problem is it intended to solve? Child pornography? Kids being psychologically damaged by online content? Political manipulation? Lies? Defamation?

    Would the Labour Party be facing legal action for the video they posted on tiktok containing a song with 'questionable' lyrics?

    The motivation was the suicide of a teenage girl, where it emerged that she'd been encouraged to commit suicide by people online. So there's a pretty clear example of very serious harm following from people's actions online.

    The legislation does not seem to be laser-focused on that level of seriousness of harm.
    Lots of things cause suicide, job loss, divorce, being a sub postmaster etc....should we make those illegal too? Suicide due to bullying has always been with us long before the days of social media. The OSA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut in respect of that.

    The truth is the bill is about one thing and why we see it's like in many countries. Prior to social media publishing was a one to many thing and governments could control what people had information on. The internet ruined that for them and ever since they have been seeking a way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    Of course the internet like everything powerful is a two edged sword and along with more information comes more misinformation. However we always had that too from the main stream press
    There are many reasons why people commit suicide. There is rarely just one cause and those charities dealing with it always advocate caution about blaming it on one factor alone. Sad as that case was, we only heard the father's story. It is understandable why he might blame what his daughter was seeing online for her death. But that avoids asking some other tough questions about what else was going on and why she was spending so long online. And - brutal as this might sound - is one sad case a sufficient basis for a law which has 241 sections, 12 parts and 17 schedules and still requires loads more regulations and guidance?
    There was a time when I was about 14 when I was bullied at school. That was in the 50's when the standard advice was 'fight back'.
    Not so easy when it's one against 10 or so, plus most of the rest of the form.
    So sometimes thought about suicide; jumping in front of one of the trains on the nearby railway and so on. That would get all the problems over with.
    Obviously I didn't and the problems did go away, but I was glad to go 300 miles from home for higher education. By the time I came back 'home' I was a married man with a family and teenage angst was something I was expecting to have to talk to my children about eventually.
    But if I'd been looking at what everyone else was posting on my phone ......
    I was gave that a 'like', but it feels like it needs more than that.

    I was never really bullied at school - looking back I find it hard to work out why as I should have been prime material, but I think I was probably unconsciously political in cultivating the right friendships and alliances.

    But, back then (for you or even in my time) any bullying would have been mostly confined to school or perhaps the walk there and back. Once home, there would have been respite. With messaging and social media it's much more possible now for it to be effectively 24/7. Having online communities to help bullied children can be a great thing; having online communities that push suicide as a solution is not.

    I can't help thinking, though, that this bill might not do much to help with that, while potentially being misused against other people who are not particularly harmful, but just plain rude or nasty.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,773
    "Our Parliament is filled with new MPs with little or no experience of how to legislate."

    You say this like it is a new phenomenon?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    edited January 8

    "Our Parliament is filled with new MPs with little or no experience of how to legislate."

    You say this like it is a new phenomenon?

    Just the other day, a chap* said he's never seen so many bad hats, speaking of a new parliament.

    *His methodology for reducing the venom thrown at him, in his time's version of social media, was striking. Pistols for two, breakfast for one.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 101
    A question for any ex-Government lawyers on here.

    There is a HoC Research Department that provides briefings and overviews for all MP's. There are alternative sources of information such as the Daily Mail, Think Tanks and of course, PB. Is the RD a waste and could be sold off to someone like Musk?

    Here is the research on the Terminally Ill Adults Bill

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10123/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
    Obviously the burden of proof is now on the Governor, who must eat seven of said fish, raw, bones and all, to demonstrate his contempt for them.

    His kind of wokery makes me so angry I could throw the phone down. He may as well go and live in Greenland.
    From the smelt to the snow melt?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
    Obviously the burden of proof is now on the Governor, who must eat seven of said fish, raw, bones and all, to demonstrate his contempt for them.

    His kind of wokery makes me so angry I could throw the phone down. He may as well go and live in Greenland.
    From the smelt to the snow melt?
    Now you're dribbling.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,114
    edited January 8

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    kinabalu said:

    a

    Lay Newsome for the nomination next time?

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1877033120463233070

    Governor Gavin Newscum refused to sign the water restoration declaration put before him that would have allowed millions of gallons of water, from excess rain and snow melt from the North, to flow daily into many parts of California, including the areas that are currently burning in a virtually apocalyptic way. He wanted to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt, by giving it less water (it didn't work!), but didn't care about the people of California. Now the ultimate price is being paid. I will demand that this incompetent governor allow beautiful, clean, fresh water to FLOW INTO CALIFORNIA! He is the blame for this. On top of it all, no water for fire hydrants, not firefighting planes. A true disaster!

    Will stagger, nay astonish, some.

    But the above statement by Trump is bullshit.
    What, so you're saying he hasn't sacrificed clean water for the whole state of California in order to protect an essentially worthless fish called a smelt?
    Obviously the burden of proof is now on the Governor, who must eat seven of said fish, raw, bones and all, to demonstrate his contempt for them.

    His kind of wokery makes me so angry I could throw the phone down. He may as well go and live in Greenland.
    From the smelt to the snow melt?
    Now you're dribbling.
    Berg, er, off :smile:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'll admit to having been lazy on this one. I don't fully understand the OSA in detail. But the first question I would ask is - What problem is it intended to solve? Child pornography? Kids being psychologically damaged by online content? Political manipulation? Lies? Defamation?

    Would the Labour Party be facing legal action for the video they posted on tiktok containing a song with 'questionable' lyrics?

    The motivation was the suicide of a teenage girl, where it emerged that she'd been encouraged to commit suicide by people online. So there's a pretty clear example of very serious harm following from people's actions online.

    The legislation does not seem to be laser-focused on that level of seriousness of harm.
    Lots of things cause suicide, job loss, divorce, being a sub postmaster etc....should we make those illegal too? Suicide due to bullying has always been with us long before the days of social media. The OSA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut in respect of that.

    The truth is the bill is about one thing and why we see it's like in many countries. Prior to social media publishing was a one to many thing and governments could control what people had information on. The internet ruined that for them and ever since they have been seeking a way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    Of course the internet like everything powerful is a two edged sword and along with more information comes more misinformation. However we always had that too from the main stream press
    And a part of this is the mainstream media/legacy media wanting to put the boot into the new media which is gradually supplanting it.
    Which is exactly why most of the mainstream media have been talking about the dangers of new media for the past few days, rather than the actual issue at hand (which I won’t mention here).

    It’s now existential for old media, as has been already demonstrated in the US, with CNN and MSNBC recording five figures in key demo ratings for their flagship nightly shows that cost them tens of millions to produce, accompanied by youngsters cutting the cable that represents their baseline revenue stream.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861
    Selebian said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'll admit to having been lazy on this one. I don't fully understand the OSA in detail. But the first question I would ask is - What problem is it intended to solve? Child pornography? Kids being psychologically damaged by online content? Political manipulation? Lies? Defamation?

    Would the Labour Party be facing legal action for the video they posted on tiktok containing a song with 'questionable' lyrics?

    The motivation was the suicide of a teenage girl, where it emerged that she'd been encouraged to commit suicide by people online. So there's a pretty clear example of very serious harm following from people's actions online.

    The legislation does not seem to be laser-focused on that level of seriousness of harm.
    Lots of things cause suicide, job loss, divorce, being a sub postmaster etc....should we make those illegal too? Suicide due to bullying has always been with us long before the days of social media. The OSA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut in respect of that.

    The truth is the bill is about one thing and why we see it's like in many countries. Prior to social media publishing was a one to many thing and governments could control what people had information on. The internet ruined that for them and ever since they have been seeking a way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    Of course the internet like everything powerful is a two edged sword and along with more information comes more misinformation. However we always had that too from the main stream press
    There are many reasons why people commit suicide. There is rarely just one cause and those charities dealing with it always advocate caution about blaming it on one factor alone. Sad as that case was, we only heard the father's story. It is understandable why he might blame what his daughter was seeing online for her death. But that avoids asking some other tough questions about what else was going on and why she was spending so long online. And - brutal as this might sound - is one sad case a sufficient basis for a law which has 241 sections, 12 parts and 17 schedules and still requires loads more regulations and guidance?
    There was a time when I was about 14 when I was bullied at school. That was in the 50's when the standard advice was 'fight back'.
    Not so easy when it's one against 10 or so, plus most of the rest of the form.
    So sometimes thought about suicide; jumping in front of one of the trains on the nearby railway and so on. That would get all the problems over with.
    Obviously I didn't and the problems did go away, but I was glad to go 300 miles from home for higher education. By the time I came back 'home' I was a married man with a family and teenage angst was something I was expecting to have to talk to my children about eventually.
    But if I'd been looking at what everyone else was posting on my phone ......
    I was gave that a 'like', but it feels like it needs more than that.

    I was never really bullied at school - looking back I find it hard to work out why as I should have been prime material, but I think I was probably unconsciously political in cultivating the right friendships and alliances.

    But, back then (for you or even in my time) any bullying would have been mostly confined to school or perhaps the walk there and back. Once home, there would have been respite. With messaging and social media it's much more possible now for it to be effectively 24/7. Having online communities to help bullied children can be a great thing; having online communities that push suicide as a solution is not.

    I can't help thinking, though, that this bill might not do much to help with that, while potentially being misused against other people who are not particularly harmful, but just plain rude or nasty.
    Thank you.
    It depends, in part, I suspect, on the bullying and the way in which it's conducted.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,689

    Some, at last of the 'confusion' is caused, I suspect by the 'difficult' language used. I'm aware of a group of senior citizens who are extremely concerned about this and and consequently trying to make the language used in legislation less, perhaps, opaque. Their leaders thoughts can be understood perhaps, by part of his website introduction, viz:
    "How can things be improved? You may have heard about “Citizen Scientists” who are being recruited to help scientists analyse the huge amounts of information being gathered by recent advances in the technology employed. So, can “citizen legal advisers” be employed from the ranks of the U3A to help draft and propose improvements to legislation? While some knowledge of legal matters would be required in the team, there is a great need for some people to review legislation and comment along the lines of “I don’t understand this – it needs to be rewritten in a way that lay people can understand”.

    Have a look at u3acommunities.org; improving legislation.

    I thought U3A was just Tinder for wrinklies?
    No, nothing like it. Meeting place, either 'for real' or on line for 'wrinklies' (I'll give you that) who want to keep their minds active.
    Well, in 3 years and 2 months time (who said I was I keeping count?), I will be eligible to join. Looking forward to it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861

    Some, at last of the 'confusion' is caused, I suspect by the 'difficult' language used. I'm aware of a group of senior citizens who are extremely concerned about this and and consequently trying to make the language used in legislation less, perhaps, opaque. Their leaders thoughts can be understood perhaps, by part of his website introduction, viz:
    "How can things be improved? You may have heard about “Citizen Scientists” who are being recruited to help scientists analyse the huge amounts of information being gathered by recent advances in the technology employed. So, can “citizen legal advisers” be employed from the ranks of the U3A to help draft and propose improvements to legislation? While some knowledge of legal matters would be required in the team, there is a great need for some people to review legislation and comment along the lines of “I don’t understand this – it needs to be rewritten in a way that lay people can understand”.

    Have a look at u3acommunities.org; improving legislation.

    I thought U3A was just Tinder for wrinklies?
    No, nothing like it. Meeting place, either 'for real' or on line for 'wrinklies' (I'll give you that) who want to keep their minds active.
    Well, in 3 years and 2 months time (who said I was I keeping count?), I will be eligible to join. Looking forward to it.
    You'll be very welcome.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,362
    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    Ok, well that is a recent change, albeit a welcome one.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/icc-men-s-t20-world-cup-2024-1411166/afghanistan-vs-australia-48th-match-super-eights-group-1-1415748/live-cricket-score
    Sorry I seem to be wrong. I can’t find a reference now but I was sure I had seen them strengthen the line.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707
    Battlebus said:

    A question for any ex-Government lawyers on here.

    There is a HoC Research Department that provides briefings and overviews for all MP's. There are alternative sources of information such as the Daily Mail, Think Tanks and of course, PB. Is the RD a waste and could be sold off to someone like Musk?

    Here is the research on the Terminally Ill Adults Bill

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10123/

    IANAL but I think it is a bad idea to outsource Parliament's brains to somebody else. Politics is for concepts which do not have consensus axioms. In such an environment defining "the truth" is difficult. Consequently Parliament should retain the capacity to do its own research
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,022
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.



  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707

    "Our Parliament is filled with new MPs with little or no experience of how to legislate."

    You say this like it is a new phenomenon?

    Just the other day, a chap* said he's never seen so many bad hats, speaking of a new parliament.

    *His methodology for reducing the venom thrown at him, in his time's version of social media, was striking. Pistols for two, breakfast for one.
    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Arthur_Wellesley,_1st_Duke_of_Wellington
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,362
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.



    ICC = BCCI. And the BCCI has its own agenda.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.



    The ICC's own rules should lead them to expel Afghanistan.

    FFS - it's just a game. What the fuck is wrong with Western sportsmen that they can't even give up one bloody game to show some revulsion at what is happening to Afghan women?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,022

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    Yes Field Marshal! Far too many irregulars in the ranks!

    I wonder where they'd go though?

    My guesses;

    60% Lab -> Corbycrap
    20% Lab -> Greens
    10% Lab -> Reform

    Of course this is a generality, and there are some sensible Labour MPs that also might defect. I guess the best way to work out where they will go is just to ask him.

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,783
    edited January 8
    Watched PMQs for first time in a while, thought the LOTO came across very well. Gather we can’t pass comment on what she was actually talking about. What a fecking country this is.

    So let’s say instead she was much more confident and fluid in her verbal delivery than the early weeks. She dressed very well for the occasion and is photogenic. She also has the hang already of restarting her points after Speaker interruption, so that there’s a clean clip to edit for the socials. Much to prove but her presentation and political instincts look sounder by the week.

    The PM on the hand looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders and the MP for Yardley looked like she swallowed a whole wasps nest. Not sure why that might be.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,861

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    To?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.
    Except that their women’s team has fled overseas, exiled in Australia and UAE, and not being allowed to compete as required by the ICC’s own rules.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,022
    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.
    Except that their women’s team has fled overseas, exiled in Australia and UAE, and not being allowed to compete as required by the ICC’s own rules.
    Well that's precisely why I wonder if they received a nudge.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,093
    Omnium said:

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    Yes Field Marshal! Far too many irregulars in the ranks!

    I wonder where they'd go though?

    My guesses;

    60% Lab -> Corbycrap
    20% Lab -> Greens
    10% Lab -> Reform

    Of course this is a generality, and there are some sensible Labour MPs that also might defect. I guess the best way to work out where they will go is just to ask him.

    None to the Libdems?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    To?
    just about anyone to be frank.

    The rumblings have already kicked off in the local councils.

    LD, Con, SNP, PC, Reform , Independent,

    The way Reeves is going the AfD could get their first MP
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,763
    edited January 8
    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:


    David Brindle
    @DavidJ_Brindle
    ·
    1h
    ‘I can’t think of any reason why [social care commission] should take three years, I simply can’t. The commission I was part of took a year from being commissioned to final reporting’ - Sir Andrew Dilnot on Casey social care inquiry at
    @CommonsHealth


    https://x.com/DavidJ_Brindle/status/1876933237324263475

    Because Labour don't want to prioritise it. Things that Labour have prioritised are:

    Giving Palantir the contract for NHS data
    Selling the Royal Mail to the Czechs
    Taking Winter Fuel Allowance from pensioners
    Giving Ed Miliband 22bn to extract gas from air and heat caves with it.

    Wouldn't it be nice to have a left-wing government for a change? I mean yes they fuck up the economy, but at least you get some nice things, like less dead old people.
    Increasing taxes on employers and farmers to fund huge bungs for GPs and train drivers and scrapping remaining hereditary peers is pretty leftwing
    Landowners, not farmers, please.
    Most of those hit are farmers
    But not the same thing. And a lot of farmers aren't hit. You're giving the impression of manipulating words to slant the argument.

    In any case - the taxes haven't begun. And any competent planning will sort much of the issue.
    The average net worth across all farms was £2.2 million in 2022/23 and 49% of farms had a net worth of at least £1.5 million.

    So large numbers of farms will be hit planning or not

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/balance-sheet-analysis-and-farming-performance-england/balance-sheet-analysis-and-farming-performance-england-202223-statistics-notice
    B ut that is still not the same thing. Landowners, not farmers, is the key word.
    No it isn't as it is agricultural property relief being removed over £1 million it is not specifically an extra tax on landowners otherwise it would hit all owner occupiers in the UK
    Landowners whose land is used for farming, sure.

    But it beginds with Landowners. Not Farmers. Farmers do not necessarily own their land, and that's what counts.

    We're not brain dead on PB and it's an insult to all of us to have jejune propaganda on here.
    No it doesn't, as landowners include someone who owns a 2 bed property and garden in Stoke.

    This ending of agricultural property relief is primarily going to hit farmers
    I said "Landowners whose land is used for farming". Not growing bloody chrysanthemums.
    I can see @Carnyx that you need some educating on this simple matter rather than simply swallowing the propaganda from Starmer et al.

    Here is an explanation that even people in the public sector might understand:

    Imagine you are the Principal of a Higher Education College. It isn't very well paid, but you get by, and you love the work even though it is often challenging. The buildings and the grounds are worth a lot of money, but you don't intend to sell them even though some of the governors would like you to. The HE college has been around for 100 years, but all of a sudden a new government comes in and says that whether the property that is used for the college is sold or otherwise, there will be a tax every time there is a change of the Principal.

    "But we don't have any spare cash" says the Principal
    "Sell some of the buildings" says the heartless minister. In fact sell 20% of them. You can afford it."
    "But then we will have to have 20% less students!"
    "Tough, just get on and sell. The college is rich enough in terms of assets"

    Now the college now has 20% less students. 20% less income and subsequently closes.

    This is the reality for a large number of family farms and family businesses. These businesses are asset rich but income poor. It is not difficult for a farm to have assets over 3M, anymore than it would be for an HE college.

    As @malcolmg said, if a farmer sells their assets and realises this value, then they would and should pay CGT, but not simply for continuing to farm it.
    Doesn't change the basic fact that HYUFD said farmers. Not landowners. As if all farmers were being hit. He could have said owner-farmers.

    As for the other things you raise: they operate only once that distinction is made. Which HYUFD did not. Edit: Until then, we can't consider the points you make.

    I own a farm field myself, renting it out, so I know very well how it works, having dealt with the IHT liability on it as the executor.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'll admit to having been lazy on this one. I don't fully understand the OSA in detail. But the first question I would ask is - What problem is it intended to solve? Child pornography? Kids being psychologically damaged by online content? Political manipulation? Lies? Defamation?

    Would the Labour Party be facing legal action for the video they posted on tiktok containing a song with 'questionable' lyrics?

    The motivation was the suicide of a teenage girl, where it emerged that she'd been encouraged to commit suicide by people online. So there's a pretty clear example of very serious harm following from people's actions online.

    The legislation does not seem to be laser-focused on that level of seriousness of harm.
    Lots of things cause suicide, job loss, divorce, being a sub postmaster etc....should we make those illegal too? Suicide due to bullying has always been with us long before the days of social media. The OSA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut in respect of that.

    The truth is the bill is about one thing and why we see it's like in many countries. Prior to social media publishing was a one to many thing and governments could control what people had information on. The internet ruined that for them and ever since they have been seeking a way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    Of course the internet like everything powerful is a two edged sword and along with more information comes more misinformation. However we always had that too from the main stream press
    And a part of this is the mainstream media/legacy media wanting to put the boot into the new media which is gradually supplanting it.
    Which is exactly why most of the mainstream media have been talking about the dangers of new media for the past few days, rather than the actual issue at hand (which I won’t mention here).

    It’s now existential for old media, as has been already demonstrated in the US, with CNN and MSNBC recording five figures in key demo ratings for their flagship nightly shows that cost them tens of millions to produce, accompanied by youngsters cutting the cable that represents their baseline revenue stream.
    Talking of CNN remember CNN+. Sank without trace.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.
    Except that their women’s team has fled overseas, exiled in Australia and UAE, and not being allowed to compete as required by the ICC’s own rules.
    Well that's precisely why I wonder if they received a nudge.
    I do wonder if there’s half a plan underfoot to allow a ‘rebel’ Afghan women’s team to register out of Melbourne or Dubai?

    They’d better get on with it though, before the men’s tournament in February.

    AIUI most of them are currently seeking asylum in Australia which means they can’t leave the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 8
    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Spectator TV interviews former Truss economist J Jessop (not PB's one):-

    “She has zero credibility” – is Rachel Reeves making bigger mistakes than Liz Truss?

    The UK’s long-term government borrowing costs hit the highest level since 1998 this week. This creates huge problems for the chancellor, considering Rachel Reeves plans to borrow hundreds of billions of pounds to fund higher public investment and spending.

    Have Labour created more economic problems than they’ve solved? Will Labour be hiking taxes again? And is Rachel Reeves making just as many mistakes as Liz Truss? Economics editor Kate Andrews is joined by independent economist Julian Jessop.

    //CHAPTERS
    00:00 - Introduction
    00:31 - Bond market jitters and rising borrowing costs
    02:08 - £12 billion debt interest crisis explained
    04:17 - Mini-budget fallout vs. today's economic challenges
    07:22 - Inflation, stagflation, and economic warning signs
    10:34 - The problem of record debt and state expansion
    12:43 - Stagflation lite: what it means for the UK
    14:45 - Why UK economic growth has stagnated

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVh2eaVVerA

    Maybe, maybe not.

    Either way Mandy Rice-Davies applies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'll admit to having been lazy on this one. I don't fully understand the OSA in detail. But the first question I would ask is - What problem is it intended to solve? Child pornography? Kids being psychologically damaged by online content? Political manipulation? Lies? Defamation?

    Would the Labour Party be facing legal action for the video they posted on tiktok containing a song with 'questionable' lyrics?

    The motivation was the suicide of a teenage girl, where it emerged that she'd been encouraged to commit suicide by people online. So there's a pretty clear example of very serious harm following from people's actions online.

    The legislation does not seem to be laser-focused on that level of seriousness of harm.
    Lots of things cause suicide, job loss, divorce, being a sub postmaster etc....should we make those illegal too? Suicide due to bullying has always been with us long before the days of social media. The OSA is a sledgehammer to crack a nut in respect of that.

    The truth is the bill is about one thing and why we see it's like in many countries. Prior to social media publishing was a one to many thing and governments could control what people had information on. The internet ruined that for them and ever since they have been seeking a way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    Of course the internet like everything powerful is a two edged sword and along with more information comes more misinformation. However we always had that too from the main stream press
    And a part of this is the mainstream media/legacy media wanting to put the boot into the new media which is gradually supplanting it.
    Which is exactly why most of the mainstream media have been talking about the dangers of new media for the past few days, rather than the actual issue at hand (which I won’t mention here).

    It’s now existential for old media, as has been already demonstrated in the US, with CNN and MSNBC recording five figures in key demo ratings for their flagship nightly shows that cost them tens of millions to produce, accompanied by youngsters cutting the cable that represents their baseline revenue stream.
    Talking of CNN remember CNN+. Sank without trace.
    Sank without trace, within a month, at a cost of $300m.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN+

    Whoops!
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671
    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.



    The ICC's own rules should lead them to expel Afghanistan.

    FFS - it's just a game. What the fuck is wrong with Western sportsmen that they can't even give up one bloody game to show some revulsion at what is happening to Afghan women?
    Yet they were happy to ban South Africa for over 20 years due to its domestic situation.

    Bizarre.

    The Afghans have just been touring Zimbabwe.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,783

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    To?
    just about anyone to be frank.

    The rumblings have already kicked off in the local councils.

    LD, Con, SNP, PC, Reform , Independent,

    The way Reeves is going the AfD could get their first MP
    If this was a slight majority the govt would be collapsing by the end of the year the way gilts and public opinion are going. I’m not a wagerer but I think it’s likely Starmer stands down before 2025 is out.

    He’s not politically savvy enough to sack his disastrous chancellor or to do the necessary policy and presentational pivots to stop his approval ratings sinking towards single figures. And that will be that.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,022
    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.
    Except that their women’s team has fled overseas, exiled in Australia and UAE, and not being allowed to compete as required by the ICC’s own rules.
    Well that's precisely why I wonder if they received a nudge.
    I do wonder if there’s half a plan underfoot to allow a ‘rebel’ Afghan women’s team to register out of Melbourne or Dubai?

    They’d better get on with it though, before the men’s tournament in February.

    AIUI most of them are currently seeking asylum in Australia which means they can’t leave the country.
    Yep. If there was some alternative Afghan cricket authority for example. And (lessons learnt) if that just was about cricket.

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,554

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    To?
    just about anyone to be frank.

    The rumblings have already kicked off in the local councils.

    LD, Con, SNP, PC, Reform , Independent,

    The way Reeves is going the AfD could get their first MP
    I can't see Reeves defecting to the AfD.
  • Joint German-French statement against Trump threatening Greenland.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    I’d put Ryanair close to the top of a list companies I’d avoid like the plague, but can absolutely support them suing a disruptive passenger for the £12,500 cost of the diversion.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/08/ryanair-sues-passenger-behaviour-grounded-flight/

    I wonder how many of the passengers on board might also join the civil suit, for cancelled meetings and events etc..?

    Perhaps this should remind everyone not to drink too much in the terminal if you become an idiot after too many drinks?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    edited January 8
    Cyclefree said:

    Omnium said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    biggles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    And worse, been shown up by the Aussies. Unforgivable.
    Have the Aussies said they won't play Afghanistan at the WC? I missed that. I know they cancelled the bilateral series (but the ECB haven't scheduled any either) and also that they have granted asylum to the women's cricket team.
    I took it as implicit but they haven’t had to opine because they aren’t in the group. I think they have basically said they will not play them.
    The Aussies are in the same group, and have said they’ll play the match.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2024/12/5/cricket-australia-defends-afghanistan-boycott-after-hypocrisy-accusation

    At this point it either requires the ICC to step in, or for England, Australia and South Africa (the three teams in the groups with Afghanistan) to all boycott the tournament as a whole in protest.
    I wonder if the ICC have had a nudge from the UN (or the like) to not cut ties. Cricket is about the only promising thing to happen to Afghanistan in a very long time. Either way the ICC need to decide and stop sitting on the fence, and they should explain their decision.



    The ICC's own rules should lead them to expel Afghanistan.

    FFS - it's just a game. What the fuck is wrong with Western sportsmen that they can't even give up one bloody game to show some revulsion at what is happening to Afghan women?
    Is it just greed, a lack of understanding or interest?

    I refer back to the Lions tour of South Africa in I think 1972. John Taylor refused to go and was branded a Communist whose career would be over (which in essence it was after his snub) by the ex military man who was Chairman of the Lions. Lesser minds than Taylor, like Gareth Edwards excused themselves by claiming they just wanted to play rugby against the best in the World. At the time Rugby Union was (believe it if you will) an amateur game, so it wasn't money driven.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,022
    HYUFD said:

    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not

    Which great things have lawyers been responsible for?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013
    I can’t say it would be much fun being a Labour MP right now. A lot of the new intake must have dreamed of these days for such a long time and it’s hard to think that it’s living up to their expectations. You’ve got lots of competition for government jobs and Keir seems to be quite keen on promoting his mates with connections anyway. In the meantime instead of doing all that exciting government stuff you dreamt of you’re having to justify taking money off grannies and whatever the heck Rachel Reeves is doing to your constituents.

    I do think talk of defection is a little premature because we’re only 6 months in and I can’t imagine people getting scared of losing yet.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580

    I can’t say it would be much fun being a Labour MP right now. A lot of the new intake must have dreamed of these days for such a long time and it’s hard to think that it’s living up to their expectations. You’ve got lots of competition for government jobs and Keir seems to be quite keen on promoting his mates with connections anyway. In the meantime instead of doing all that exciting government stuff you dreamt of you’re having to justify taking money off grannies and whatever the heck Rachel Reeves is doing to your constituents.

    I do think talk of defection is a little premature because we’re only 6 months in and I can’t imagine people getting scared of losing yet.

    If defections come on present polls they will be redwall Labour MPs to Reform but not yet as you say
  • German-French statements, general apoplexy..and nothing from the British government on Canada. Charles is head of state of a country that the incoming President is now publicly committed to annexing.

    We are becoming a slightly comical presence on the world stage.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not

    Which great things have lawyers been responsible for?
    Lawyers don't do so much as think and make laws and apply them but that knowledge is important in a legislative body
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    with January being as much of a shitshow as the previous 5 months, how long until we start getting Labour MP defections ?

    To?
    just about anyone to be frank.

    The rumblings have already kicked off in the local councils.

    LD, Con, SNP, PC, Reform , Independent,

    The way Reeves is going the AfD could get their first MP
    I can't see Reeves defecting to the AfD.
    They wouldnt have her
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 8

    Joint German-French statement against Trump threatening Greenland.

    Could we have the first ever war between Germany and France on one side and the US on the other? Unlikely but at Trump's current trajectory he could be at war with most of the EU, Canada and Mexico and end up forming an alliance with Putin to attack the EU from the East. Meanwhile he also ends up in a trade war with China too.

    The UK would probably have to go to war with the US to defend Canada for the first time since 1812 if Trump invaded Canada, a fellow Commonwealth realm, while Trump would also have to re enact the Alamo to hold off the Mexicans
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    I can’t say it would be much fun being a Labour MP right now. A lot of the new intake must have dreamed of these days for such a long time and it’s hard to think that it’s living up to their expectations. You’ve got lots of competition for government jobs and Keir seems to be quite keen on promoting his mates with connections anyway. In the meantime instead of doing all that exciting government stuff you dreamt of you’re having to justify taking money off grannies and whatever the heck Rachel Reeves is doing to your constituents.

    I do think talk of defection is a little premature because we’re only 6 months in and I can’t imagine people getting scared of losing yet.

    There must be a serious temptation to go Green - back to the joys of opposition.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688

    German-French statements, general apoplexy..and nothing from the British government on Canada. Charles is head of state of a country that the incoming President is now publicly committed to annexing.

    We are becoming a slightly comical presence on the world stage.

    I think we can safely ignore anything France or Germany say. Neither has a functioning government. Or an army.

    Starmer has just said he wants to pay Mauritius to take Canada too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    Sandpit said:

    I’d put Ryanair close to the top of a list companies I’d avoid like the plague, but can absolutely support them suing a disruptive passenger for the £12,500 cost of the diversion.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/08/ryanair-sues-passenger-behaviour-grounded-flight/

    I wonder how many of the passengers on board might also join the civil suit, for cancelled meetings and events etc..?

    Perhaps this should remind everyone not to drink too much in the terminal if you become an idiot after too many drinks?

    I’ve heard it said that, in the U.K., the airlines were told off for discussing a joint no-fly list. Get banned on one, get banned on all. The government of the time was worried about backlash….
  • German-French statements, general apoplexy..and nothing from the British government on Canada. Charles is head of state of a country that the incoming President is now publicly committed to annexing.

    We are becoming a slightly comical presence on the world stage.

    I think we can safely ignore anything France or Germany say. Neither has a functioning government. Or an army.

    Starmer has just said he wants to pay Mauritius to take Canada too.
    So Britain should say nothing ? It seems not to have a voice anymore.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489

    Joint German-French statement against Trump threatening Greenland.

    LOL have they nothing better to do?

    Ignore him and he’ll go away, feed his flames and he’ll keep coming back to the fire.

    It’s going to be a very long next four years for so many people.
  • Sandpit said:

    Joint German-French statement against Trump threatening Greenland.

    LOL have they nothing better to do?

    Ignore him and he’ll go away, feed his flames and he’ll keep coming back to the fire.

    It’s going to be a very long next four years for so many people.
    You're forgetting, though. that that's not Musk, and it's Musk who has the personal connection with Canada. There was no sign of interest in this
    Idea from Trump before.

    Musk is not a troll, but more of an overgrown teenager-megalomaniac.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,022
    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not

    Which great things have lawyers been responsible for?
    Lawyers don't do so much as think and make laws and apply them but that knowledge is important in a legislative body
    I wasn't suggesting that lawyers didn't have a place in the world. A small scattering of well paid lawyers rather than a cockroach like infestation of meddlers seems the best balance to me though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489

    Sandpit said:

    I’d put Ryanair close to the top of a list companies I’d avoid like the plague, but can absolutely support them suing a disruptive passenger for the £12,500 cost of the diversion.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/08/ryanair-sues-passenger-behaviour-grounded-flight/

    I wonder how many of the passengers on board might also join the civil suit, for cancelled meetings and events etc..?

    Perhaps this should remind everyone not to drink too much in the terminal if you become an idiot after too many drinks?

    I’ve heard it said that, in the U.K., the airlines were told off for discussing a joint no-fly list. Get banned on one, get banned on all. The government of the time was worried about backlash….
    If you’re so pissed and unstable that you cause the Captain to need to divert the plane, not a decision he (or she) takes lightly, you should be absolutely on a no-fly list for at least a decade.

    Same as the late-night pubs in most English towns have operated for years. Banned from one, banned from all.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    German-French statements, general apoplexy..and nothing from the British government on Canada. Charles is head of state of a country that the incoming President is now publicly committed to annexing.

    We are becoming a slightly comical presence on the world stage.

    I think we can safely ignore anything France or Germany say. Neither has a functioning government. Or an army.

    Starmer has just said he wants to pay Mauritius to take Canada too.
    So Britain should say nothing ? It seems not to have a voice anymore.
    I thinki quietly rolling our eyes is the best response to Trump.
    While tut-tutting ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Taz said:

    German-French statements, general apoplexy..and nothing from the British government on Canada. Charles is head of state of a country that the incoming President is now publicly committed to annexing.

    We are becoming a slightly comical presence on the world stage.

    I think we can safely ignore anything France or Germany say. Neither has a functioning government. Or an army.

    Starmer has just said he wants to pay Mauritius to take Canada too.
    So Britain should say nothing ? It seems not to have a voice anymore.
    I thinki quietly rolling our eyes is the best response to Trump.
    While tut-tutting ?
    Well the man is a total narcissist. Give him attention and he'll keep coming back, ignore him and he 'll annoy someone else.

    Then buy popcorn
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,688
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not

    Which great things have lawyers been responsible for?
    Lawyers don't do so much as think and make laws and apply them but that knowledge is important in a legislative body
    I wasn't suggesting that lawyers didn't have a place in the world. A small scattering of well paid lawyers rather than a cockroach like infestation of meddlers seems the best balance to me though.
    That's very harsh on cockroaches
  • Taz said:

    German-French statements, general apoplexy..and nothing from the British government on Canada. Charles is head of state of a country that the incoming President is now publicly committed to annexing.

    We are becoming a slightly comical presence on the world stage.

    I think we can safely ignore anything France or Germany say. Neither has a functioning government. Or an army.

    Starmer has just said he wants to pay Mauritius to take Canada too.
    So Britain should say nothing ? It seems not to have a voice anymore.
    I thinki quietly rolling our eyes is the best response to Trump.
    While tut-tutting ?
    That should stop the silly chap. It'll all be over by Christmas.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 8
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not

    Which great things have lawyers been responsible for?
    Lawyers don't do so much as think and make laws and apply them but that knowledge is important in a legislative body
    I wasn't suggesting that lawyers didn't have a place in the world. A small scattering of well paid lawyers rather than a cockroach like infestation of meddlers seems the best balance to me though.
    I think the argument then is there are now too many well paid lawyers in the world applying the law but not enough lawyers in Parliament making the law
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,489
    So are we about to get a vote in Parliament which we can’t discuss?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    Sandpit said:

    So are we about to get a vote in Parliament which we can’t discuss?

    I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,223
    ydoethur said:

    Not sure whether we have covered this:

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/keir-starmer-calls-on-icc-to-deliver-own-rules-amid-afghanistan-boycott-row-1468113

    Essentially, the ECB have said they won't boycott matches against Afghanistan in international tournaments.

    They have shown, as usual, the backbone of a jellyfish.

    They boycotted a match against Zimbabwe a few years ago.

    Which had no effect at all, except to knock them out of the tournament early.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,888
    Sandpit said:

    Joint German-French statement against Trump threatening Greenland.

    LOL have they nothing better to do?

    Ignore him and he’ll go away, feed his flames and he’ll keep coming back to the fire.

    (Snip)
    That's not the way it works. You either stand up for your values or not: and what Musk and Trump are doing is outrageous. Remining silent allows them to do what they want.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,760
    Austerity Reeves fans

    Dip your bread!
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,358

    Sandpit said:

    Joint German-French statement against Trump threatening Greenland.

    LOL have they nothing better to do?

    Ignore him and he’ll go away, feed his flames and he’ll keep coming back to the fire.

    (Snip)
    That's not the way it works. You either stand up for your values or not: and what Musk and Trump are doing is outrageous. Remining silent allows them to do what they want.
    Fully agree, though for all our sanity I think where Trump is concerned there is a useful and important distinction between what he says and what he does.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,689

    Sandpit said:

    I’d put Ryanair close to the top of a list companies I’d avoid like the plague, but can absolutely support them suing a disruptive passenger for the £12,500 cost of the diversion.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/01/08/ryanair-sues-passenger-behaviour-grounded-flight/

    I wonder how many of the passengers on board might also join the civil suit, for cancelled meetings and events etc..?

    Perhaps this should remind everyone not to drink too much in the terminal if you become an idiot after too many drinks?

    I’ve heard it said that, in the U.K., the airlines were told off for discussing a joint no-fly list. Get banned on one, get banned on all. The government of the time was worried about backlash….
    Especially as people don't have unique names.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,723
    HYUFD said:

    Maybe we need some more lawyers elected as MPs and not just ex SPADs, MPs researchers and councillors, journalists, trade union officials and middle managers as is increasingly the case. The PM is a lawyer as is Lammy but few others in his Cabinet are and Lammy only practiced for 3 years, there aren't many lawyers in the Shadow Cabinet either apart from Jenrick and a few others (Kemi does have a part time law degree from Birkbeck but that is it and she worked as an analyst and consultant).

    Davey, Flynn and Farage aren't lawyers either. A few more lawyers, especially barristers, would enable all consequences of legislation to be scrutinised whether intended or not

    I like this. I don't necessarily think we should be singling out lawyers - although as you say I would hope they would have a better handle on unintended consequences of bad legislation. But basically anyone who has had a proper career - whether it is a lawyer, a military man, a doctor, a plumber or a shop keeper. People who have lived and worked in the real world rather than solely in the realm of politics.
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