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In 2027 will I be writing 'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majo

SystemSystem Posts: 12,240
edited January 7 in General
imageIn 2027 will I be writing 'Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority'? – politicalbetting.com

The screen grab above is from yesterday’s Sunday Times, like most of Starmer’s inner circle I think this is a bananas ideas for several reasons.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,675
    I think the critical criteria for the next election is the government waiting until they can change the narrative to “results delivered.”

    If they can get results.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,301
    QTWTAIN, they’re not increasing the majority from a landslide unless something utterly remarkable turns up, something that raises a trillion pounds overnight.

    They’re not going to call an election early unless there’s a whole load of good news backed by polling.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    edited January 7
    Agree. He isn't going early after waiting all this time. Plus the scenario that is described is quite complex.

    Back in the day, I worked for a bank which structured derivatives for clients. They would often ask for a payout which depended on several not necessarily connected factors and we were told to ask them in such cases: "are your views really that complicated".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,162
    2024: a good election to lose?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    edited January 7
    That said, I don't see a huge bump in approval for this government because I believe there is an ideological, rather than pragmatic angle to their approach to government. They will enact policies (cf VAT on schools, lying to the farmers) which accord with their ideological principles and, to invoke a phrase from of our greatest leader, they will eventually run out of other people to tax.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,158

    2024: a good election to lose?

    Some on Labour said that about 2010 and they were out of power for fourteen years.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,162
    TOPPING said:

    That said, I don't see a huge bump in approval for this government because I believe there is an ideological, rather than pragmatic angle to their approach to government. They will enact policies (cf VAT on schools, lying to the farmers) which accord with their ideological principles and to invoke a phrase from of our greatest leader, they will eventually run out of other people to tax.

    Labour? Run out of other people to tax? Say it ain't so...

    You'll know they have changed/are utterly desperate when they go after public sector pension pots.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086

    TOPPING said:

    That said, I don't see a huge bump in approval for this government because I believe there is an ideological, rather than pragmatic angle to their approach to government. They will enact policies (cf VAT on schools, lying to the farmers) which accord with their ideological principles and to invoke a phrase from of our greatest leader, they will eventually run out of other people to tax.

    Labour? Run out of other people to tax? Say it ain't so...

    You'll know they have changed/are utterly desperate when they go after public sector pension pots.
    I don't even think it will be the utterly desperate stage. They will simply continue to contract the constituency of those who are "onside" and hence others will become class enemies and ripe for exploitation. They will retreat into a core of the pure and everyone else be damned. And taxed.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 29,088
    2027: the expected time when Aberdeen Airport will reopen
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,583
    Sandpit said:

    QTWTAIN, they’re not increasing the majority from a landslide unless something utterly remarkable turns up, something that raises a trillion pounds overnight.

    They’re not going to call an election early unless there’s a whole load of good news backed by polling.

    It's possible- not so much by Labour support going up from July 2024 as the distribution of RefCon support becoming even less efficient.

    Remember, the Conservative vote share in elections barely moved from 1979 all the way to 1992. Despite all the alarms and excursions on the way.

    If things go well for the government (no sniggering at the back), Starmer wins in 2028 and retires in about 2030. If not, he goes in 2028 and his successor tries their luck in 2029.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,158
    edited January 7
    Republic now!

    Our unelected head of state is a hippy. dippy member of the CND.

    Why should our armed forces be forced to swear allegiance to him?

    The King questioned Margaret Thatcher’s nuclear defence strategy during the Cold War, newly declassified documents have revealed.

    The monarch, who was then the Prince of Wales, demanded personal military briefings from senior officials in 1983 about the government’s approach to disarmament and the stockpiling of nuclear weapons.

    Representatives for the Prince later contacted ministers to say he was “not entirely convinced” by the policies of the Conservative administration and “did not follow the logic” of the explanations he was given.

    The correspondence, held by the National Archives and first reported by The Times newspaper, shows how ministers sought to allay the Prince’s concerns for “official flannel and obfuscation” by providing bespoke briefings.

    He was also given access to sensitive documents that were meant to be seen only by senior politicians and military figures, the documents reveal.

    On Dec 14 1983, the Foreign Office was made aware that the Prince had requested briefings on “current arms control and disarmament issues”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/06/king-questioned-thatchers-nuclear-defence-plans-cold-war-uk/

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,040
    800,000 Russian casualties since February 2022.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,728
    If you want two terms, but less than eight years, win the 2028/9 GE and handover mid term.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,583

    2024: a good election to lose?

    No such thing. For a start, power is always preferable to impotence. Secondly, in modern times at least, defeated governments have always responded the the reduced discipline by going a bit bonkers. As is happening right now.

    If you are an elected politician, every election is a good election to win when when you consider the alternative.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,162

    2024: a good election to lose?

    Some on Labour said that about 2010 and they were out of power for fourteen years.
    ...and neatly sidestepped Covid, Ukraine, the cost of living crisis.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,119
    It is also true that it is a story that has been exploited by bad actors. Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, who styles himself Tommy Robinson, has seized upon it as a means of sowing racial division. Given the nature of Musk’s interventions – describing Phillips as a “rape genocide apologist”, accusing Keir Starmer of being “complicit” and demanding that both be imprisoned – the owner of X is also clearly a bad actor. Put in the context of Musk’s prediction in the summer that the UK is heading for “civil war”, his demand that Robinson be released from prison and that the King should call a new general election, and the suggestion that the US “should liberate the people of Britain from their tyrannical government”, one might also ask if he is a mad actor as well.

    There are votes to be won by appealing to the populists but eventually you have to draw a line or you will be taken to a very dark place. But as Musk’s behaviour suggests, a dark place is where some want to go. It exposes the dilemma of parties of the right: populists, you can’t live with them, and you can’t live without them.


    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2025/01/elon-musk-shows-the-perils-of-populism
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,111
    The main thing this tells you is that Labour are not confident of winning a second term at the end of this parliament.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,111

    I think the critical criteria for the next election is the government waiting until they can change the narrative to “results delivered.”

    If they can get results.

    Results require a plan, and the politics to sell it.

    There is no plan, and SKS hates politics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,301

    TOPPING said:

    That said, I don't see a huge bump in approval for this government because I believe there is an ideological, rather than pragmatic angle to their approach to government. They will enact policies (cf VAT on schools, lying to the farmers) which accord with their ideological principles and to invoke a phrase from of our greatest leader, they will eventually run out of other people to tax.

    Labour? Run out of other people to tax? Say it ain't so...

    You'll know they have changed/are utterly desperate when they go after public sector pension pots.
    They’ll come for the private-sector pension pots first. Imagine trillions of pounds just sitting there and not available to be spent by the government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,657

    Republic now!

    Our unelected head of state is a hippy. dippy member of the CND.

    Why should our armed forces be forced to swear allegiance to him?

    The King questioned Margaret Thatcher’s nuclear defence strategy during the Cold War, newly declassified documents have revealed.

    The monarch, who was then the Prince of Wales, demanded personal military briefings from senior officials in 1983 about the government’s approach to disarmament and the stockpiling of nuclear weapons.

    Representatives for the Prince later contacted ministers to say he was “not entirely convinced” by the policies of the Conservative administration and “did not follow the logic” of the explanations he was given.

    The correspondence, held by the National Archives and first reported by The Times newspaper, shows how ministers sought to allay the Prince’s concerns for “official flannel and obfuscation” by providing bespoke briefings.


    He was also given access to sensitive documents that were meant to be seen only by senior politicians and military figures, the documents reveal.

    On Dec 14 1983, the Foreign Office was made aware that the Prince had requested briefings on “current arms control and disarmament issues”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/06/king-questioned-thatchers-nuclear-defence-plans-cold-war-uk/

    Those are actually not unreasonable questions to ask.
    I support the principle of deterrence versus unilateral disarmament. But in his privileged position I'd be tempted to ask for answers to awkward questions.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,019
    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,111

    800,000 Russian casualties since February 2022.

    Tragic waste of life on their side, as on the Ukrainian.

    War is terrible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    If it helps pass the time, having done a lot of flying within China in my time China Eastern is the only airline which I had a near miss on. I was dozing on a morning flight in the North-East and was suddenly jolted awake by the plane (BAe146) which suddenly lurched upwards, sending everything flying that wasn't strapped in (all good because people were thrust back in their seats).

    I looked out and we were in a foggy mountain range flying between peaks and I'm guessing had nearly, or just been about to hit one.

    Probably the closest shave I've had.

    Bon voyage.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    edited January 7
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,019
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas
    I shall at least have survived flying over Russian airspace without being struck by a missile. So there's that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,686
    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    Starmer will, imo, follow Harold Wilson in retiring on health grounds.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,301
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    If it helps pass the time, having done a lot of flying within China in my time China Eastern is the only airline which I had a near miss on. I was dozing on a morning flight in the North-East and was suddenly jolted awake by the plane (BAe146) which suddenly lurched upwards, sending everything flying that wasn't strapped in (all good because people were thrust back in their seats).

    I looked out and we were in a foggy mountain range flying between peaks and I'm guessing had nearly, or just been about to hit one.

    Probably the closest shave I've had.

    Bon voyage.
    Ah, mountain waves, the source of most of the severe turbulence. Small planes can and do get turned upside-down by them.

    https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/weather/mountain-wave-turbulence-where-to-find-it-and-how-to-avoid-wave-flight/

    Chinese ATC are famous for being very strict with airways and routings, not allowing any deviation even for weather, unless you dare utter the M-word that results in a lot of paperwork afterwards.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    THEYVE GOT THREE CHEFS WHOSE ONLY JOB IS TO MAKE FRESH NOODLES AND DIM SUM ON DEMAND
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    edited January 7
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    If it helps pass the time, having done a lot of flying within China in my time China Eastern is the only airline which I had a near miss on. I was dozing on a morning flight in the North-East and was suddenly jolted awake by the plane (BAe146) which suddenly lurched upwards, sending everything flying that wasn't strapped in (all good because people were thrust back in their seats).

    I looked out and we were in a foggy mountain range flying between peaks and I'm guessing had nearly, or just been about to hit one.

    Probably the closest shave I've had.

    Bon voyage.
    Ah, mountain waves, the source of most of the severe turbulence. Small planes can and do get turned upside-down by them.

    https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/weather/mountain-wave-turbulence-where-to-find-it-and-how-to-avoid-wave-flight/

    Chinese ATC are famous for being very strict with airways and routings, not allowing any deviation even for weather, unless you dare utter the M-word that results in a lot of paperwork afterwards.
    I always thought “clear air turbulence” was the real killer, because it comes out of nowhere and you can’t prepare? With mountains you know it’s coming
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,686
    How Jordan Peterson interview with Tommy Robinson led to Musk’s bust-up with Reform
    Reform insiders are convinced that the billionaire’s support for Robinson stems from his conversations with Dr Peterson

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/06/tommy-robinson-interview-jordan-peterson-musk-farage-reform/ (£££)

    As plausible an explanation as anything else, except I'd also note Musk's disillusionment with Farage followed having met him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,191

    2024: a good election to lose?

    Some on Labour said that about 2010 and they were out of power for fourteen years.
    ...and neatly sidestepped Covid, Ukraine, the cost of living crisis.
    You missed out Brexit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    I love me some Asia
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    Europe does feel like it’s fast falling behind Asia and the USA, now. It’s palpable
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,191

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    Starmer will, imo, follow Harold Wilson in retiring on health grounds.
    ...after an attempted coup?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    If it helps pass the time, having done a lot of flying within China in my time China Eastern is the only airline which I had a near miss on. I was dozing on a morning flight in the North-East and was suddenly jolted awake by the plane (BAe146) which suddenly lurched upwards, sending everything flying that wasn't strapped in (all good because people were thrust back in their seats).

    I looked out and we were in a foggy mountain range flying between peaks and I'm guessing had nearly, or just been about to hit one.

    Probably the closest shave I've had.

    Bon voyage.
    Ah, mountain waves, the source of most of the severe turbulence. Small planes can and do get turned upside-down by them.

    https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/weather/mountain-wave-turbulence-where-to-find-it-and-how-to-avoid-wave-flight/

    Chinese ATC are famous for being very strict with airways and routings, not allowing any deviation even for weather, unless you dare utter the M-word that results in a lot of paperwork afterwards.
    This seemed to be the pilot engaging thrust in an upwardly direction rather than it being thrown around by the elements as there was definitely a higher and stronger engine whine as we ascended and kept ascending...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    The Brexiteers were right. The EU has fossilised European economies, strangled innovation, and its freedoms mean - inter alia - that the immigration madness of one country (hello Germany) is inflicted on all the others


    The fact that the UK has totally fucked up Brexit and not seized its opportunities does not negate this truth. The brexiteers’ diagnosis of the EU was bang on
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,301
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    If it helps pass the time, having done a lot of flying within China in my time China Eastern is the only airline which I had a near miss on. I was dozing on a morning flight in the North-East and was suddenly jolted awake by the plane (BAe146) which suddenly lurched upwards, sending everything flying that wasn't strapped in (all good because people were thrust back in their seats).

    I looked out and we were in a foggy mountain range flying between peaks and I'm guessing had nearly, or just been about to hit one.

    Probably the closest shave I've had.

    Bon voyage.
    Ah, mountain waves, the source of most of the severe turbulence. Small planes can and do get turned upside-down by them.

    https://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-fly/weather/mountain-wave-turbulence-where-to-find-it-and-how-to-avoid-wave-flight/

    Chinese ATC are famous for being very strict with airways and routings, not allowing any deviation even for weather, unless you dare utter the M-word that results in a lot of paperwork afterwards.
    I always thought “clear air turbulence” was the real killer, because it comes out of nowhere and you can’t prepare? With mountains you know it’s coming
    That as well. The mountain waves can be worse but you see them coming, strap everyone in and divert around it (except in China). The real risk with CAT is not as much the level of turbulence but the unexpectedness of it, which leads to trollies and people flying around the cabin and causes more injuries.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,373
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    Leon said:

    The Brexiteers were right. The EU has fossilised European economies, strangled innovation, and its freedoms mean - inter alia - that the immigration madness of one country (hello Germany) is inflicted on all the others


    The fact that the UK has totally fucked up Brexit and not seized its opportunities does not negate this truth. The brexiteers’ diagnosis of the EU was bang on

    Or...Brexit and indeed "the EU" was incidental, the EU being a marginal good to the economies, and Brexit a marginal bad as these countries, as you rightly note, need no help to fuck themselves up with no help from anyone or anything.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,301

    How Jordan Peterson interview with Tommy Robinson led to Musk’s bust-up with Reform
    Reform insiders are convinced that the billionaire’s support for Robinson stems from his conversations with Dr Peterson

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/01/06/tommy-robinson-interview-jordan-peterson-musk-farage-reform/ (£££)

    As plausible an explanation as anything else, except I'd also note Musk's disillusionment with Farage followed having met him.

    Dr Peterson is one of the more sensible and thoughtful commentators. Not a guest I’d have booked if I were in his shoes, but as mentioned many times his supporters have done a good job on convincing Americans ((and Canadians!) that he’s a journalist who supports freedom of speech, as opposed to the alternative.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    edited January 7
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    The change seems to be causing all kinds of upset. I hadn't realised the change (for eg Gold) was so significant.

    Like you I do a lot less flying than hitherto but would always choose budget over BA for EU and Virgin over BA for longer haul.

    Outside EU/US, BA might be the right choice for 4-6hrs, that said.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,019
    Leon said:

    The Brexiteers were right. The EU has fossilised European economies, strangled innovation, and its freedoms mean - inter alia - that the immigration madness of one country (hello Germany) is inflicted on all the others


    The fact that the UK has totally fucked up Brexit and not seized its opportunities does not negate this truth. The brexiteers’ diagnosis of the EU was bang on

    Even the seemingly far-fetched boom in manufacturing has appeared:



    Opinions might vary on whether that is due to Brexit, I suppose. But still.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,700

    2027: the expected time when Aberdeen Airport will reopen

    If you hadn’t moved you would have been on time - Teesside flights are on schedule as I need to collect twin A at 9:30
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    edited January 7
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    Is the Barajas lounge still great? The big wooden one designed by Norman foster? IIRC?

    Last time I was there was probably before Covid and it was WOW. They had an entire station for Jamon Iberica de bellota. It was like Soneva fushi

    Very few lounges truly stand out. Virgin Atlantic first class at LHR used to be wondrous - endless just sliced sashimi and properly good fizz. I hear it’s disappeared or gravely declined

    In fact does virgin airways still exist? Just realised I have no idea
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,686

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    Starmer will, imo, follow Harold Wilson in retiring on health grounds.
    ...after an attempted coup?
    ...after a South African-led conspiracy.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,686
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    Thoughts and prayers.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,389
    Agree with TSE, Starmer will want as much time to turn things round as possible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,086
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    Is the Barajas lounge still great? The big wooden one designed by Norman foster? IIRC?

    Last time I was there was probably before Covid and it was WOW. They had an entire station for Jamon Iberica de bellota. It was like Soneva fushi

    Very few lounges truly stand out. Virgin Atlantic first class at LHR used to be wondrous - endless just sliced sashimi and properly good fizz. I hear it’s disappeared or gravely declined

    In fact does virgin airways still exist? Just realised I have no idea
    Yes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,983
    TOPPING said:

    That said, I don't see a huge bump in approval for this government because I believe there is an ideological, rather than pragmatic angle to their approach to government. They will enact policies (cf VAT on schools, lying to the farmers) which accord with their ideological principles and, to invoke a phrase from of our greatest leader, they will eventually run out of other people to tax.

    Labour don't help themselves by unforced errors and bad narrative handling. But the big reasons why any UK government will find approval hard going from 2024-2029 is that there is a huge gap between the cost of providing really well what the state does through our taxes and taxpayers willingness to pay for it.

    BTW on R4 Today Jenrick and Robinson between them managed to be abysmally awful. Toe curling stuff on both sides.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    The change seems to be causing all kinds of upset. I hadn't realised the change (for eg Gold) was so significant.

    Like you I do a lot less flying than hitherto but would always choose budget over BA for EU and Virgin over BA for longer haul.

    Outside EU/US, BA might be the right choice for 4-6hrs, that said.
    On my flight just finished I realised I’ve done about eight airlines by biz to Bangkok

    Here’s how I’d rate them, top to bottom

    Eva
    BA
    Thai
    Etihad
    China Eastern
    Air France
    KLM
    Finnair

    The top three are at the top because they’re direct from LHR. Eva is now superb but you really pay for it

    If you factor in cost and don’t mind a stopover then China Eastern wins. Quite luxurious cabins, nice food, ok wine. Really GREAT lounge at Shanghai - and about 65% the price of the others except for Finnair
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,389
    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    I wonder which PM in modern times has made the best exit?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    edited January 7
    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    I wonder which PM in modern times has made the best exit?
    Thatcher and Blair. Both departed with dignity, and undefeated. Betrayed by their parties and replaced by fools
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,686
    Starmer’s £80k renovation of ‘Tory blue’ Downing Street TV room
    The prime minister faces criticism over the refurbishment, after Labour condemned Boris Johnson’s spending on the room as a ‘vanity project’

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/starmer-80k-renovation-tory-blue-downing-street-gqj8hb2pv (£££)

    Keir Starmer is a lawyer, not a politician. Labour staffers will be anxiously checking he's not bought a duck house.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,373
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    Is the Barajas lounge still great? The big wooden one designed by Norman foster? IIRC?

    Last time I was there was probably before Covid and it was WOW. They had an entire station for Jamon Iberica de bellota. It was like Soneva fushi

    Very few lounges truly stand out. Virgin Atlantic first class at LHR used to be wondrous - endless just sliced sashimi and properly good fizz. I hear it’s disappeared or gravely declined

    In fact does virgin airways still exist? Just realised I have no idea
    The lounge space in Madrid is still great, but the catering isn’t up there anymore. No jamon Iberico. Decent food but only a touch above BA, and similar quality of wine.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,250
    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    I wonder which PM in modern times has made the best exit?
    And much more importantly, what was their favourite airline?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    Is the Barajas lounge still great? The big wooden one designed by Norman foster? IIRC?

    Last time I was there was probably before Covid and it was WOW. They had an entire station for Jamon Iberica de bellota. It was like Soneva fushi

    Very few lounges truly stand out. Virgin Atlantic first class at LHR used to be wondrous - endless just sliced sashimi and properly good fizz. I hear it’s disappeared or gravely declined

    In fact does virgin airways still exist? Just realised I have no idea
    The lounge space in Madrid is still great, but the catering isn’t up there anymore. No jamon Iberico. Decent food but only a touch above BA, and similar quality of wine.
    Ahhhh

    Sic Transit Gloria Mundi

    I’d like to see the Singapore airlines lounge at Changi. That must be quite something
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,983
    edited January 7
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    Dry Sack was (is?) a brand of sweet sherry, and was around in the 1960s. But I haven't seen it recently.

    'Sack' to Pepys was sweet white wine from Spain or the Canaries. You could mix it with sugar and milk to make sack-posset. pepeys drank this quite often.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927

    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    I wonder which PM in modern times has made the best exit?
    And much more importantly, what was their favourite airline?
    Given that we’re no longer allowed to discuss anything that might upset anyone ever anywhere, especially thing thing and thing, you’d better get used to PB being the most tedious boozer in the world, full of entitled old gits discussing airline lounges and embittered old Nats comparing sporrans
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,250

    Starmer’s £80k renovation of ‘Tory blue’ Downing Street TV room
    The prime minister faces criticism over the refurbishment, after Labour condemned Boris Johnson’s spending on the room as a ‘vanity project’

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/starmer-80k-renovation-tory-blue-downing-street-gqj8hb2pv (£££)

    Keir Starmer is a lawyer, not a politician. Labour staffers will be anxiously checking he's not bought a duck house.

    A strange construction, 'a refurbishment worth up to £80,000'.
    Presumably they got the tv room surveyors in to do a valuation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,384
    It should be noted that the main movement since the general election has been Labour to Reform not Tory to Reform. Kemi may not have gained many extra votes but she is holding the 2024 Tory vote.

    So there is no chance of Labour increasing it's majority. Indeed Starmer would do well to avoid the fate of May in 2017 when she lost her majority completely
  • eekeek Posts: 28,700
    TOPPING said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that the China Eastern Airlines Lounge in Shanghai airport is very agreeable. Excellent food and wine. Huge and airy. Great views

    I hope this does not cause any distress or mental harm to anyone flying economy

    Bastard. I shall be there in twelve hours - not the lounge, the waiting area. With a beef wrap and a tin of lager from "Hudson News", no doubt.

    Nevermind, your business class doesn't get you out from under the Great Firewall. So we are at least equal there.
    Apologies

    It’s seriously impressive. I guess it’s their flagship lounge? Almost as good as the Iberia lounge at Barajas

    The lounge food is borderline brilliant. Very very good Chinese tucker. The food on the plane was nice but nothing special
    I was in the Iberia lounge at Barajas a couple of weeks ago and they had a bottle of “dry sack” in the drinks fridge. I thought sack was something the likes of Samuel Pepys or Dr Johnson drank.

    Sadly my lounge days are no more. My corporate travel has declined precipitously since Covid and just before Christmas I lost BA silver. And now BA have changed their tier points rules so it’s about money spent not distances, meaning it’s not feasible to get tier status on the cheap with a few carefully chosen private flights.

    My 140 country friend, who was getting towards lifetime gold, is distraught. It’s now £20k to maintain gold each year. He used to get it for about 3k by doing tier point runs like London-Helsinki-Stockholm-Malaga (he’s a bit mad). His life is ruined, he says.
    The change seems to be causing all kinds of upset. I hadn't realised the change (for eg Gold) was so significant.

    Like you I do a lot less flying than hitherto but would always choose budget over BA for EU and Virgin over BA for longer haul.

    Outside EU/US, BA might be the right choice for 4-6hrs, that said.
    The things I miss or lounge access (which I now get via Lloyds World Traveller elite card) and priority customer care.

    Which is why I now have to chase KLM up for €500 we spent on hotels when stuck in Schiphol twice overnight.

    Twin A’s holiday has been different
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,019
    edited January 7
    Leon said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    I wonder which PM in modern times has made the best exit?
    And much more importantly, what was their favourite airline?
    Given that we’re no longer allowed to discuss anything that might upset anyone ever anywhere, especially thing thing and thing, you’d better get used to PB being the most tedious boozer in the world, full of entitled old gits discussing airline lounges and embittered old Nats comparing sporrans
    "I mentoned it once, but I think I got away with it alright." -- Fawlty
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,301
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    That said, I don't see a huge bump in approval for this government because I believe there is an ideological, rather than pragmatic angle to their approach to government. They will enact policies (cf VAT on schools, lying to the farmers) which accord with their ideological principles and, to invoke a phrase from of our greatest leader, they will eventually run out of other people to tax.

    Labour don't help themselves by unforced errors and bad narrative handling. But the big reasons why any UK government will find approval hard going from 2024-2029 is that there is a huge gap between the cost of providing really well what the state does through our taxes and taxpayers willingness to pay for it.

    BTW on R4 Today Jenrick and Robinson between them managed to be abysmally awful. Toe curling stuff on both sides.
    Yet they chose to spend a huge amount of their political capital on ideological tinkering that will generate more heat than light. If they were serious, they’d have bitten the bullet and raised one or more of the big taxes, and actually raised some decent money to justify the squealing.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,373
    Eabhal said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    The Brexiteers were right. The EU has fossilised European economies, strangled innovation, and its freedoms mean - inter alia - that the immigration madness of one country (hello Germany) is inflicted on all the others


    The fact that the UK has totally fucked up Brexit and not seized its opportunities does not negate this truth. The brexiteers’ diagnosis of the EU was bang on

    Even the seemingly far-fetched boom in manufacturing has appeared:



    Opinions might vary on whether that is due to Brexit, I suppose. But still.
    UK manufacturing is really interesting. Still a relatively large sector, and once you start speaking with people working in it you realise just how much advanced work is going on, often by people without formal qualifications working for local companies in their hometown

    I was looking into some rather clever green tech for one of the charities I help out with and was to astonished to find it was made a mile away from where I went to school.
    It's one sector where what's left is highly productive and automated, in contrast with most of our dominant services sector that's filled with low cost labour and under-investment. Not enough of it of course, but much of what's left is like drug-resistant bacteria, battered for decades by global headwinds so what survives is a particularly resistant strain.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,261
    If we posted "Je suis Charlie", would that be in breach of the OSA?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,373
    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    And yet as that BBC article shared here yesterday says, thousands of Vietnamese (and other SE Asians) are stumping up ludicrous amounts of money and risking their lives to migrate illegally to Europe. The grass is always greener.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,384
    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    That is mainly Far East Asia and the UAE. It certainly isn't Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria or even India, Turkey and the Philippines
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,191
    ...
    Leon said:

    rkrkrk said:

    TOPPING said:

    It's easy to ask "does Starmer really want to be PM" or a variation thereof. Which I believe is to misunderestimate the thinking of a politician. Every, or most politicians want to rise as far as they can so as to be able to bring about the change they believe is necessary for the good of the country. Starmer is no different. He now has the Top Job in UK politics and I'm guessing he will hang on to it for as long as he is able to.

    PMs are forced out, precious few walk away willingly.

    I wonder which PM in modern times has made the best exit?
    And much more importantly, what was their favourite airline?
    Given that we’re no longer allowed to discuss anything that might upset anyone ever anywhere, especially thing thing and thing, you’d better get used to PB being the most tedious boozer in the world, full of entitled old gits discussing airline lounges and embittered old Nats comparing sporrans
    Where would we be without a bit of PB willy waving? My airline is bigger than yours.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,933
    Airport lounges and airline frequent flyer programs are the most successful weaponisation of status anxiety in human history, with private schools a distant second. The lengths people will go to to drink mid-price wine surrounded by other smug boomers in their garden centre outfits is quite astonishing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    edited January 7

    If we posted "Je suis Charlie", would that be in breach of the OSA?

    Probably. For someone

    The more I think about it the more I reckon PB cannot survive the OSA

    Someone is bound to say something “distressing” and even if they never intended distress and even if it’s factual that’s no defence - AFAICS

    And the fines are potentially enormous

    Who will risk that?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,373
    HYUFD said:

    It should be noted that the main movement since the general election has been Labour to Reform not Tory to Reform. Kemi may not have gained many extra votes but she is holding the 2024 Tory vote.

    So there is no chance of Labour increasing it's majority. Indeed Starmer would do well to avoid the fate of May in 2017 when she lost her majority completely

    2024 was surely the Tories at their absolute core. Anyone who was still voting Conservative in July must have had either strong loyalty to the brand or an intense dislike of the alternatives including Reform.

    I'm still of the view Reform will peak then subside, just as the SDP did in the 80s and the Lib Dems have done a couple of times in recent history, notably in 2005-2010 and briefly in 2019, and UKIP did in 2013-16.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,608
    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    Are they allowed to offend people on online political blogs?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,999
    edited January 7
    Leon said:

    If we posted "Je suis Charlie", would that be in breach of the OSA?

    Probably. For someone

    The more I think about it the more I reckon PB cannot survive the OSA

    Someone is bound to say something “distressing” and even if they never intended distress and even if it’s factual that’s no defined - AFAICS

    And the fines are potentially enormous

    Who will risk that?
    Whilst there is clearly some risk on PB, surely the biggest risks come from saying things on the likes of X? Here there are perhaps a few hundred readers (at best) whereas if you posted something unintentional but unfortunate on X it could be read by millions.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,608

    Airport lounges and airline frequent flyer programs are the most successful weaponisation of status anxiety in human history, with private schools a distant second. The lengths people will go to to drink mid-price wine surrounded by other smug boomers in their garden centre outfits is quite astonishing.

    What is a garden centre outfit?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    Are they allowed to offend people on online political blogs?
    Yes. More than we are. I genuinely believe most of them now have greater freedom of speech that Brits. It’s fucking shameful

    Just don’t mention tiananmen in China. Or you might get a keir starmer type sentence for being mean on Facebook
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,373
    edited January 7

    Airport lounges and airline frequent flyer programs are the most successful weaponisation of status anxiety in human history, with private schools a distant second. The lengths people will go to to drink mid-price wine surrounded by other smug boomers in their garden centre outfits is quite astonishing.

    You have a point, but you're overdoing it. Airports are generally not relaxing or comfortable places, and lounges are relaxing and comfortable. They make a big difference to the travel experience. The freebies are a bonus, and everyone loves a freebie. I doubt many seek out tier points for the sort of social status reasons you suggest, though doubtless some at the upper end of the tiers do.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    That is mainly Far East Asia and the UAE. It certainly isn't Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Syria or even India, Turkey and the Philippines
    Well yes. Obvs. Derrrr
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,250
    boulay said:

    Airport lounges and airline frequent flyer programs are the most successful weaponisation of status anxiety in human history, with private schools a distant second. The lengths people will go to to drink mid-price wine surrounded by other smug boomers in their garden centre outfits is quite astonishing.

    What is a garden centre outfit?
    I sense it might involve gilets, and an adventurous colour choice for at least one article of clothing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    And yet as that BBC article shared here yesterday says, thousands of Vietnamese (and other SE Asians) are stumping up ludicrous amounts of money and risking their lives to migrate illegally to Europe. The grass is always greener.
    Then they get here and think “shit, my bad”
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,069
    edited January 7
    TimS said:

    Eabhal said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    The Brexiteers were right. The EU has fossilised European economies, strangled innovation, and its freedoms mean - inter alia - that the immigration madness of one country (hello Germany) is inflicted on all the others


    The fact that the UK has totally fucked up Brexit and not seized its opportunities does not negate this truth. The brexiteers’ diagnosis of the EU was bang on

    Even the seemingly far-fetched boom in manufacturing has appeared:



    Opinions might vary on whether that is due to Brexit, I suppose. But still.
    UK manufacturing is really interesting. Still a relatively large sector, and once you start speaking with people working in it you realise just how much advanced work is going on, often by people without formal qualifications working for local companies in their hometown

    I was looking into some rather clever green tech for one of the charities I help out with and was to astonished to find it was made a mile away from where I went to school.
    It's one sector where what's left is highly productive and automated, in contrast with most of our dominant services sector that's filled with low cost labour and under-investment. Not enough of it of course, but much of what's left is like drug-resistant bacteria, battered for decades by global headwinds so what survives is a particularly resistant strain.
    Yes. This firm only employs about 30 people FTE, but had no qualms at all about spending £100,000s on a new bit of kit to polish something a bit better. You can't imagine your typical services firm doing that kind of investment.

    And it's extremely telling that most offices I go into have kit that is significantly worse than my WFH set up, and almost all my colleagues bring their own keyboards/mice in. It's pathetic.

    People moan about the government not doing enough investment, but it's a culture that persists throughout the economy outside the top consultancies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,384

    2024: a good election to lose?

    Some on Labour said that about 2010 and they were out of power for fourteen years.
    Yet the Conservatives also failed to win a majority for seven of those fourteen years
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,675
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    And yet as that BBC article shared here yesterday says, thousands of Vietnamese (and other SE Asians) are stumping up ludicrous amounts of money and risking their lives to migrate illegally to Europe. The grass is always greener.
    It’s almost as if the “Far East” is a vast region, in cultural, political and economic terms.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,261
    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    Clean streets? In India???
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,384

    Republic now!

    Our unelected head of state is a hippy. dippy member of the CND.

    Why should our armed forces be forced to swear allegiance to him?

    The King questioned Margaret Thatcher’s nuclear defence strategy during the Cold War, newly declassified documents have revealed.

    The monarch, who was then the Prince of Wales, demanded personal military briefings from senior officials in 1983 about the government’s approach to disarmament and the stockpiling of nuclear weapons.

    Representatives for the Prince later contacted ministers to say he was “not entirely convinced” by the policies of the Conservative administration and “did not follow the logic” of the explanations he was given.

    The correspondence, held by the National Archives and first reported by The Times newspaper, shows how ministers sought to allay the Prince’s concerns for “official flannel and obfuscation” by providing bespoke briefings.

    He was also given access to sensitive documents that were meant to be seen only by senior politicians and military figures, the documents reveal.

    On Dec 14 1983, the Foreign Office was made aware that the Prince had requested briefings on “current arms control and disarmament issues”.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/06/king-questioned-thatchers-nuclear-defence-plans-cold-war-uk/

    He was Prince then not King.

    Though most people in an ideal world would want to disarm nuclear weapons and the King has always been a bit of an eco warrior and certainly not as gung ho or macho as his father or even his sons. However while Russia and China have nuclear weapons so must we
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,261
    HYUFD said:

    2024: a good election to lose?

    Some on Labour said that about 2010 and they were out of power for fourteen years.
    Yet the Conservatives also failed to win a majority for seven of those fourteen years
    2010: "Helped Into Power"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    TimS said:

    Airport lounges and airline frequent flyer programs are the most successful weaponisation of status anxiety in human history, with private schools a distant second. The lengths people will go to to drink mid-price wine surrounded by other smug boomers in their garden centre outfits is quite astonishing.

    You have a point, but you're overdoing it. Airports are generally not relaxing or comfortable places, and lounges are relaxing and comfortable. They make a big difference to the travel experience. The freebies are a bonus, and everyone loves a freebie. I doubt many seek out tier points for the sort of social status reasons you suggest, though doubtless some at the upper end of the tiers do.
    I generally agree. A good airline lounge is a thing of beauty. An oasis of calm, ace snacks and good free booze amidst the stress and hurly burly of modern air travel

    However I have been to some airline lounges (hello Nairobi) which ARE all about status. They are crowded and horrible and it’s much nicer outside but people surge in just to show they are entitled to be in a lounge. Quite wanky
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,740

    800,000 Russian casualties since February 2022.

    If accurate then that's more casualties than the British and Commonwealth armies lost in the Somme and Third Ypres combined. And for what? At least the first world war was fought to stop the proto-Nazi Germans from gaining vast swathes of Eastern Europe at the expense of the poor folk who lived their (not unlike the motivation in the second attempt).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,516

    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    Clean streets? In India???
    "Asia/Asians" has an enormous scope - Yemen, Japan, India, Singapore and most of Russia is in Asia but they're all obviously very different.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927
    Omnium said:

    Leon said:

    If we posted "Je suis Charlie", would that be in breach of the OSA?

    Probably. For someone

    The more I think about it the more I reckon PB cannot survive the OSA

    Someone is bound to say something “distressing” and even if they never intended distress and even if it’s factual that’s no defined - AFAICS

    And the fines are potentially enormous

    Who will risk that?
    Whilst there is clearly some risk on PB, surely the biggest risks come from saying things on the likes of X? Here there are perhaps a few hundred readers (at best) whereas if you posted something unintentional but unfortunate on X it could be read by millions.
    X can probably afford the fines. Or it will ignore the fines and simply stop operating in Britain

    PB can’t do either
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,680

    On topic, I fully agree with TSE. This is Westminster Wonkery at its finest (ie worst).

    A government elected with a landslide majority has no cause to go to the country after two years. On what basis? Delivery? There won't be any because the only actual decisions the govt has taken so far have been to piss things off and make them (temporarily, one assumes Labour expects), worse. Mandate? It already has that, unless it wants to rat on a pledge. Preventative, before things really go down the pan? Hardly an inspiring message. To take advantage? Brenda from Bristol - and indeed the entire 2017 election - would have an answer to that.

    And even if re-elected, then unless the Tories and Reform are both at each others' throats and failing to land blows on Labour, then Labour will lose seats. No matter how you spin it, that will take the shine off any victory and check Labour's momentum - as well as potentially costing some ministers their seats.

    Just bloody govern and forget about the games. Governments have many structural advantages in the political game. If the country is in a decent, improved, shape come 2028/9, and Labour runs a capable campaign, they will win.

    We haven't had a government that "just" governed for many years. I suspect that this is partly because of the long periods in opposition before a new government was formed. Non-governing habits are formed that are difficult to shake off.

    About the only thing I can praise Blair for is his good fortune in coming into government at a time of relative stability and choosing to (basically) carry on a continuity Major administration, domestically.

    Given both Tory and Labour are suffering, I wonder if Westminster has collectively forgotten how to do it?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,686

    Starmer’s £80k renovation of ‘Tory blue’ Downing Street TV room
    The prime minister faces criticism over the refurbishment, after Labour condemned Boris Johnson’s spending on the room as a ‘vanity project’

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/starmer-80k-renovation-tory-blue-downing-street-gqj8hb2pv (£££)

    Keir Starmer is a lawyer, not a politician. Labour staffers will be anxiously checking he's not bought a duck house.

    A strange construction, 'a refurbishment worth up to £80,000'.
    Presumably they got the tv room surveyors in to do a valuation.
    My guess is the room was being refurbished anyway and the Times has priced up some Farrow & Ball paint and a few rolls of posh wallpaper.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,329
    TimS said:

    Airport lounges and airline frequent flyer programs are the most successful weaponisation of status anxiety in human history, with private schools a distant second. The lengths people will go to to drink mid-price wine surrounded by other smug boomers in their garden centre outfits is quite astonishing.

    You have a point, but you're overdoing it. Airports are generally not relaxing or comfortable places, and lounges are relaxing and comfortable. They make a big difference to the travel experience. The freebies are a bonus, and everyone loves a freebie. I doubt many seek out tier points for the sort of social status reasons you suggest, though doubtless some at the upper end of the tiers do.
    And then you get whichever holiday company it is offering complimentary lounge access if you book a holiday with them - their ad featuring an obnoxious family annoying everyone else. So perhaps sitting on the floor next to Pret isn't so bad after all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,927

    Leon said:

    What strikes me about modern Asia is that modern Asians are simply used to what they get. Excellent food, clean streets, hi tech everything, safe cities, almost zero crime, no terrorism, exemplary infrastructure, noodle chefs on demand, 5G networks in the middle of forests

    Their quality of life is now in many ways superior to that of Europeans and it’s just expected

    Clean streets? In India???
    East and Southeast Asia
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