Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
It might have been better to stick with Boris, for all the fact he'd have gone down to a similar defeat, for that accountability and catharsis.
Boris was actually most responsible for massively expanding non EU immigration even as he ended EU free movement.
Rishi to his credit raised the visa wage requirement for immigrants with Cleverly and ensured dependents could not come in without a wage earner earning enough to support them, hence net immigration to the UK fell at the end of last year.
Though Boris might have squeezed back Reform a bit he deserves the blame for growing immigration as much as Blair does when he allowed Eastern European migration without transition controls in 2004
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Horseshit.
Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).
Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.
One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
Boris traded favour for Indian workers. It's in the Telegraph so it must be true.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
And that's the point. Boris telling you the truth is as misleading as anyone else telling you a lie.
But ultimately the trouble is that nobody involved in government in the last decade or so could make the economy.xls spreadsheet work without adding lots of migrant workers and foreign students.
As has been exhaustively documented, over the years on PB, whole sectors of the economy were denuded of workers by the exodus of 2016-20. Asking Farage to fix the problem is like asking the arsonist to rebuild the house, and the Tories were always too frightened to admit that the failures of Brexit meant big increases in immigration from other parts of the world. As usual, though, the British political class, and press, have too short a memory to make any progress.
Meanwhile, we're now not only adrift outside the European structures but hitched to two megalomaniac who want to turn us into a province. Decades of foolishness.
Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.
Is that what people really want?
I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).
There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.
Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
A number of sites have already shuttered.
And they aren’t who you might think or expect.
One issue is online reviews. Certain companies have tried to use defamation laws in various countries to get negative reviews taken down. “His review threatens the jobs of my work force - therefore it scares and upsets them”.
As I pointed out previously, this doesn’t even have to win in court. A high end law firm serves notices - people’s hosting and accounts get cancelled then and there. All you need is a law to hang it on. Happened many times already.
And @kinabalu sits there, enthroned in his tiny Palace of Stupid, saying this is a good thing
This is not quite fair. The act (about which I don't feel equipped to judge) is an attempt to do something about a world of social media which most people feel need some sort of regulation - because children, because Molly Russell, because various evils. Those who think 'leave it alone, no new laws or regulation required' should say so. Those who think regulation is needed need to suggest a better path than the act provides.
I am not outraged by the online safety act and do not consider it a threat to freedom of speech in any meaningful sense.
Is there literally nobody else on PB who feels the same? Am I truly the special one?
I know you are the least self aware person on here, but does not your total isolation on this issue not make you wonder that maybe you’ve got it wrong?
It's not something I enjoy, being alone, but I'm sensing a bit of the old groupthink here.
Anyway looks like I'm not in complete isolation. Others have now bravely come forward. Although not many tbf.
I'll stick my head up and say I'm at least unsure about how I feel about the bill and am suspicious of the groupthink that PB often gets into.
I don't like the negative effects on free speech, but nor do I like the ability of algorithms to rapidly spread misinformation that is poisoning political debate in this country.
At the moment, I'm not sure which is the worst of the two worlds.
Hardly a ringing endorsement, I grant you.
I have read some very detailed legal analyses of the Act from reputable lawyers specialising in this area of law and the general view is that it is a mess because it has not properly taken into account other important legal requirements, its definitions are vague, it gives too much power to unaccountable regulators with little scrutiny and will result in endless court challenges. It will have a chilling effect - especially on smaller forums.
I'm afraid that, nice as @kinabalu is, in my experience he tends not to bother actually informing himself in detail of what laws or Bills actually say before declaring himself "relaxed" about them. My starting point is that I do not think it is the job of the state to prevent "offence". People have a choice about whether they take offence or not and in a democracy debate should not be left at a level suitable only for babies. Good manners and respectful disagreement are great and desirable but there is a difference between unlawful conduct and very bad manners and these days the distinction between the two is being elided, to our detriment. The law should not seek to impose good manners.
Oh I see it's like that, is it. Ok, let's do a callout and see if we can find somebody more worthy to disagree with you.
I am teasing you. Have a look at the link I sent you.
My view is that this sort of legislation with regulations and codes and guidance is a very bad way to make law because it leads to confusion rather than clarity. I held this view over the Covid rules and said so at the time and I think it's also the case with laws like the Equality Act - see for instance the latest guidance out for consultation from the EHRC. It was also one of the problems with the regulations and guidance on fire resistance in the Building Regulations. See the Moore-Bick Report on the Grenfell Tower fire for how that was one of the causes. Or look at the Assisted Dying Bill .
It is really poor law-making and risks ending up, precisely because of the confusion, being oppressive - even if this was not the intention.
Ok, but I can't be having to amass as much legal knowledge as you before forming the view you're going OTT on something. That's censorship. I'd be muzzled. Prevented from saying I don't think there's a big threat to free speech.
So what's a better way in law to address the problem then iyo?
You ask an excellent question. But you are assuming that there is a problem, that this problem is so serious that it requires a new law and that this law is the right one. I think all these assumptions need questioning. So straight back at you.
1. What exactly is the problem this law is intended to solve?
2. Is it really the case that the problem - clearly defined - cannot be addressed by existing laws or other measures?
3. Is the problem sufficiently serious to warrant change?
Some problems are ones which cannot easily be solved or at all or are inherent in the tensions between conflicting interests. A bit of realism to counter the “There should be a law against it.” tendency in voters and politicians is needed.
4. Will legal change resolve or alleviate the problem? Will it create other problems instead? Is what is proposed a proportionate way of resolving or mitigating the problem?
5. What are the consequences, especially the unintended ones? Do they harm the interests of others? Or other important requirements? It is essential to assess the disadvantages and the harms done. If so, how bad are these? Can these be easily mitigated? If not, is it really worth going ahead or are there another measures which might work better?
I think very little of this assessment has been done in relation to this law. It is assumed that we must regulate a society's manners using the law - a proposition I find both dubious and potentially disturbing. I have not seen good answers to the questions posed above - not that there are always easy answers to them - and from what I have seen of this Act I think it gets the balance wrong between total freedom and total control.
Best summed up by an English judge, Lord Moulton, who said that human action can be divided into three domains. At one end is the law at the other is free choice and between them is the realm of manners. In this realm Lord Moulton said, "lies a domain in which our actions are not determined by law but in which we are not free to behave in any way we choose. In this domain we act with greater or lesser freedom from constraint, on a continuum that extends from a consciousness of duty through a sense of what is required by public spirit, to good form appropriate in a given situation".
The "realm of manners" is in severe retreat. This seems to me to be a bad thing. We seem to be moving to a state where behaviour is either mandatory or forbidden, and ever more regulated and policed by the state.
How old is the concept of "Duty of Care"? Is it bad manners to dox someone to the extent they are harmed or injured?
What recourse is there in law for someone harmed or injured if it's just bad manners. And how does equity deal with those that see themselves either above the law or think the law can be bought?
Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.
Is that what people really want?
I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).
There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.
Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
A number of sites have already shuttered.
And they aren’t who you might think or expect.
One issue is online reviews. Certain companies have tried to use defamation laws in various countries to get negative reviews taken down. “His review threatens the jobs of my work force - therefore it scares and upsets them”.
As I pointed out previously, this doesn’t even have to win in court. A high end law firm serves notices - people’s hosting and accounts get cancelled then and there. All you need is a law to hang it on. Happened many times already.
And @kinabalu sits there, enthroned in his tiny Palace of Stupid, saying this is a good thing
This is not quite fair. The act (about which I don't feel equipped to judge) is an attempt to do something about a world of social media which most people feel need some sort of regulation - because children, because Molly Russell, because various evils. Those who think 'leave it alone, no new laws or regulation required' should say so. Those who think regulation is needed need to suggest a better path than the act provides.
Ah, the Politicians Syllogism
- we must do something - this is something - therefore we must do this
I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.
The Government have. That is literally what this Bill is about. The fear of the effects of social media and a (very clumsy and authoritarian) way to deal with it.
...SFAICS - no-one has an intelligent way forward....
(sticks had in air)
Ban media using the algorithm model. Limit it to media using the subscription model. They'll still have access to the same info *but* the bad stuff will come to them slower and only if they look for it. Free speech preserved, but radicalisation slowed to a crawl: less suicides, less death threats. I think this is how Bluesky (spelling?) works: you can still find bad stuff but it's longer and less intense.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
Just 13% of Canadians would LOVE Trump to rerun 1812. Trump ain't no James Madison. In more ways than one.
Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.
Is that what people really want?
I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).
There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.
Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
A number of sites have already shuttered.
And they aren’t who you might think or expect.
One issue is online reviews. Certain companies have tried to use defamation laws in various countries to get negative reviews taken down. “His review threatens the jobs of my work force - therefore it scares and upsets them”.
As I pointed out previously, this doesn’t even have to win in court. A high end law firm serves notices - people’s hosting and accounts get cancelled then and there. All you need is a law to hang it on. Happened many times already.
And @kinabalu sits there, enthroned in his tiny Palace of Stupid, saying this is a good thing
This is not quite fair. The act (about which I don't feel equipped to judge) is an attempt to do something about a world of social media which most people feel need some sort of regulation - because children, because Molly Russell, because various evils. Those who think 'leave it alone, no new laws or regulation required' should say so. Those who think regulation is needed need to suggest a better path than the act provides.
Ah, the Politicians Syllogism
- we must do something - this is something - therefore we must do this
A very good point but not quite responding to mine.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
And retail, and tourism and accommodation sectors , and..
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Horseshit.
Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).
Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.
One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
Boris traded favour for Indian workers. It's in the Telegraph so it must be true.
And the telegraph are getting (deiberately?) confused when they talk about "£1000 fees for work visas" which actually refer to business visas - i.e the right to visit the UK for work meetings - just as we have the right to visit France or the US without a visa for work meetings.
Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.
Is that what people really want?
I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).
There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.
Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
A number of sites have already shuttered.
And they aren’t who you might think or expect.
One issue is online reviews. Certain companies have tried to use defamation laws in various countries to get negative reviews taken down. “His review threatens the jobs of my work force - therefore it scares and upsets them”.
As I pointed out previously, this doesn’t even have to win in court. A high end law firm serves notices - people’s hosting and accounts get cancelled then and there. All you need is a law to hang it on. Happened many times already.
And @kinabalu sits there, enthroned in his tiny Palace of Stupid, saying this is a good thing
This is not quite fair. The act (about which I don't feel equipped to judge) is an attempt to do something about a world of social media which most people feel need some sort of regulation - because children, because Molly Russell, because various evils. Those who think 'leave it alone, no new laws or regulation required' should say so. Those who think regulation is needed need to suggest a better path than the act provides.
Ah, the Politicians Syllogism
- we must do something - this is something - therefore we must do this
A very good point but not quite responding to mine.
Why haven’t we implemented my plan to fix social media? It is guaranteed to work. All I need is 46kg of weapons grade plutonium. Nothing can go wrong. Think of the children!
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Horseshit.
Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).
Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.
One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
Boris traded favour for Indian workers. It's in the Telegraph so it must be true.
And the telegraph are getting (deiberately?) confused when they talk about "£1000 fees for work visas" which actually refer to business visas - i.e the right to visit the UK for work meetings - just as we have the right to visit France or the US without a visa for work meetings.
Are you sure St. Boris didn't increase immigration from the Indian Subcontinent? Doesn't worry me, but it seems to vex a lot of people on here.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
I think that many Conservative politicians get a kick from trolling their supporters.
And, that might have finished them for good.
I wish....
But Farage is not "the one" to finish them I feel. On issues such as Putin and Russia he is on the wrong side. Maybe Rupert Lowe might be better, idk.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average filipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Horseshit.
Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).
Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.
One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
Boris traded favour for Indian workers. It's in the Telegraph so it must be true.
And the telegraph are getting (deiberately?) confused when they talk about "£1000 fees for work visas" which actually refer to business visas - i.e the right to visit the UK for work meetings - just as we have the right to visit France or the US without a visa for work meetings.
Are you sure St. Boris didn't increase immigration from the Indian Subcontinent? Doesn't worry me, but it seems to vex a lot of people on here.
I have no objection to increased immigration from the Indian subcontinent. You thought Boris "traded favour". He didn't.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
Actually Johnson did tell people that's what he was doing, just most didn't believe him.
Boris was always pro-immigration and made no secret of the fact he was dropping the tens of thousands pledge.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
Quite the opposite, 2019 was the one election in which the Tories did not have a "tens of thousands" pledge.
OTOH aaaah travel. Air flights. Fizzy wine. New places. Weird soups. Hot tiny towels. Tropical evenings beckoning. Tee shirts at midnight. Beers under palm trees. Mysterious new towns. Roads to WTF
I think leaving Britain in early January for somewhere hot and sunny is possibly the greatest sensation on earth. Rivalled only by sex on MDMA
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
Actually Johnson did tell people that's what he was doing, just most didn't believe him.
Boris was always pro-immigration and made no secret of the fact he was dropping the tens of thousands pledge.
This is true, and Jeremy Hunt tried to make an issue of it during the leadership election but people weren’t interested.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
but we imported an infinity Uber and deliveroo drivers.
The UK is mad. We import unsustainable numbers of people from the third world and don't even have any groowth to show for it. Why are we importing the most unproductive people?
I am not outraged by the online safety act and do not consider it a threat to freedom of speech in any meaningful sense.
Is there literally nobody else on PB who feels the same? Am I truly the special one?
I know you are the least self aware person on here, but does not your total isolation on this issue not make you wonder that maybe you’ve got it wrong?
It's not something I enjoy, being alone, but I'm sensing a bit of the old groupthink here.
Anyway looks like I'm not in complete isolation. Others have now bravely come forward. Although not many tbf.
I'll stick my head up and say I'm at least unsure about how I feel about the bill and am suspicious of the groupthink that PB often gets into.
I don't like the negative effects on free speech, but nor do I like the ability of algorithms to rapidly spread misinformation that is poisoning political debate in this country.
At the moment, I'm not sure which is the worst of the two worlds.
Hardly a ringing endorsement, I grant you.
I have read some very detailed legal analyses of the Act from reputable lawyers specialising in this area of law and the general view is that it is a mess because it has not properly taken into account other important legal requirements, its definitions are vague, it gives too much power to unaccountable regulators with little scrutiny and will result in endless court challenges. It will have a chilling effect - especially on smaller forums.
I'm afraid that, nice as @kinabalu is, in my experience he tends not to bother actually informing himself in detail of what laws or Bills actually say before declaring himself "relaxed" about them. My starting point is that I do not think it is the job of the state to prevent "offence". People have a choice about whether they take offence or not and in a democracy debate should not be left at a level suitable only for babies. Good manners and respectful disagreement are great and desirable but there is a difference between unlawful conduct and very bad manners and these days the distinction between the two is being elided, to our detriment. The law should not seek to impose good manners.
Oh I see it's like that, is it. Ok, let's do a callout and see if we can find somebody more worthy to disagree with you.
I am teasing you. Have a look at the link I sent you.
My view is that this sort of legislation with regulations and codes and guidance is a very bad way to make law because it leads to confusion rather than clarity. I held this view over the Covid rules and said so at the time and I think it's also the case with laws like the Equality Act - see for instance the latest guidance out for consultation from the EHRC. It was also one of the problems with the regulations and guidance on fire resistance in the Building Regulations. See the Moore-Bick Report on the Grenfell Tower fire for how that was one of the causes. Or look at the Assisted Dying Bill .
It is really poor law-making and risks ending up, precisely because of the confusion, being oppressive - even if this was not the intention.
Ok, but I can't be having to amass as much legal knowledge as you before forming the view you're going OTT on something. That's censorship. I'd be muzzled. Prevented from saying I don't think there's a big threat to free speech.
So what's a better way in law to address the problem then iyo?
You ask an excellent question. But you are assuming that there is a problem, that this problem is so serious that it requires a new law and that this law is the right one. I think all these assumptions need questioning. So straight back at you.
1. What exactly is the problem this law is intended to solve?
2. Is it really the case that the problem - clearly defined - cannot be addressed by existing laws or other measures?
3. Is the problem sufficiently serious to warrant change?
Some problems are ones which cannot easily be solved or at all or are inherent in the tensions between conflicting interests. A bit of realism to counter the “There should be a law against it.” tendency in voters and politicians is needed.
4. Will legal change resolve or alleviate the problem? Will it create other problems instead? Is what is proposed a proportionate way of resolving or mitigating the problem?
5. What are the consequences, especially the unintended ones? Do they harm the interests of others? Or other important requirements? It is essential to assess the disadvantages and the harms done. If so, how bad are these? Can these be easily mitigated? If not, is it really worth going ahead or are there another measures which might work better?
I think very little of this assessment has been done in relation to this law. It is assumed that we must regulate a society's manners using the law - a proposition I find both dubious and potentially disturbing. I have not seen good answers to the questions posed above - not that there are always easy answers to them - and from what I have seen of this Act I think it gets the balance wrong between total freedom and total control.
Best summed up by an English judge, Lord Moulton, who said that human action can be divided into three domains. At one end is the law at the other is free choice and between them is the realm of manners. In this realm Lord Moulton said, "lies a domain in which our actions are not determined by law but in which we are not free to behave in any way we choose. In this domain we act with greater or lesser freedom from constraint, on a continuum that extends from a consciousness of duty through a sense of what is required by public spirit, to good form appropriate in a given situation".
The "realm of manners" is in severe retreat. This seems to me to be a bad thing. We seem to be moving to a state where behaviour is either mandatory or forbidden, and ever more regulated and policed by the state.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
Why do you think that? In 2019 we still had freedom of movement, and people were still coming (contrary to remainers). There was, to a first approximation, no "Brexodus" until huge numbers of EU citizens left the UK during covid, and fewer then arrived (due to brexit). Not to mention that EU citizens can still come on the same terms as anyone else to shortage occupations - but now, of course, no working tax credit, child credit, housing benefit...
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
The mood music understood by Tory target voters in 2019 was rather different. To most of them this quite simply meant fewer minorities, and the Tories and their campaign strategy team well knew that.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
...
"Most agencies charge at least £25/hr"
Rubbish. Reference please!
I'm talking what councils pay not what private citizens pay because they have more than £23K in savings.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Hmm, OK, fair enough. Probably charging the council less than private clients, then.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
The UK is mad. We import unsustainable numbers of people from the third world and don't even have any groowth to show for it. Why are we importing the most unproductive people?
The OBR model may be to blame.
I read in Tim Shipman's book that immigration is the one dynamic supply-side effect it accepts modelling for in its forecasts, so varying net immigration figures up or down in its model can help (or hinder) you balancing the books by up to £30bn pa or more.
Off to Mexico om Wednesday for 2 weeks - Mexico City, Tecotihuacan, butterfly sanctuary, a couple of smaller towns and three days on the beach to finish up. Any tips? I'm particularly keen to choose some interesting options in Mexico City (we'll be there for 4 nights, though only one day completely free of other things), which seems to have an embarassment of riches (and some risky areas). More interested in lively scenes than museums and galleries.
Go to visit the house of Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo. I know you don’t want history/art stuff but it is genuinely fascinating, genuinely beautiful and also located in probably the nicest area of Mexico City (which is indeed not a very nice city, be careful, esp at night - be careful even when hailing taxis). It’s full of bars and students and leafy areas and nice places to eat and drink
Obviously go to the great anthropological museum, I know you don’t like museums either, but it’s astonishing, once in a lifetime, Even a history hater will be amazed
And go INSIDE the great pyramid of the Aztecs right next to the cathedral, in the heart of old Tenochtitlan
Allow a whole day for Teotihuacan, OMFG. There’s actually a couple of decent restaurants there where you can lunch, staring at the pyramids
Thanks very much! Diego+Frida house is likely to happen (the Trotsky link is interesting too - my grandfather, who had emigrated to the Americas, knew him, though he declined Trotsky's offer to get involved in exile activities) - very useful to know that it's a nice part of town. I'll have another look at the anthopological museum in view of what you say. We do indeed ghave a day for Teotihuacan. Have had warnings re hailing taxis etc., so we're going to be a bit careful - wish us luck!
In fact that link also contains a clear Tory pledge to reduce overall immigration, not even just unskilled immigration, at the 2019 election.
They well knew that this was fantasy land rubbish, after.thr exodus from Brexit.
Again EU immigration to the UK was positive until 2020. You can call lower net immigration an "exodus" if you like, but it's not how the language works:
The UK is mad. We import unsustainable numbers of people from the third world and don't even have any groowth to show for it. Why are we importing the most unproductive people?
The OBR model may be to blame.
I read in Tim Shipman's book that immigration is the one dynamic supply-side effect it accepts modelling for in its forecasts, so varying net immigration figures up or down in its model can help (or hinder) you balancing the books by up to £30bn pa or more.
Yet another thing that Truss was right about, albeit politically inept.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Hmm, OK, fair enough. Probably charging the council less than private clients, then.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
This chap reckoned he was making less than 10p an hour after costs. Of course, it's a small agency and costs may involve his salary as manager!
The £17.10 had to include mileage payments to the care workers for doing the rounds.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Hmm, OK, fair enough. Probably charging the council less than private clients, then.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
Private clients usually pay more. It is one example of the fucking mess that is social care. The private clients are partly subsidising the council-funded clients especially in care homes.
So if you saved all your life but unlucky to get dementia rather than "medical" illness like cancer then you are getting shat on twice: first you lose your life savings unlike your neighbour whohas cancer and is being treated totally for free on the NHS and secondly some of what you lose is paying for other people.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
Just 13% of Canadians would LOVE Trump to rerun 1812. Trump ain't no James Madison. In more ways than one.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Hmm, OK, fair enough. Probably charging the council less than private clients, then.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
This chap reckoned he was making less than 10p an hour after costs. Of course, it's a small agency and costs may involve his salary as manager!
The £17.10 had to include mileage payments to the care workers for doing the rounds.
Perhaps we need some sort of government insurance scheme...
In fact that link also contains a clear Tory pledge to reduce overall immigration, not even just unskilled immigration, at the 2019 election.
They well knew that this was fantasy land rubbish, after.thr exodus from Brexit.
Again EU immigration to the UK was positive until 2020. You can call lower net immigration an "exodus" if you like, but it's not how the language works:
And, post 2020, EU emigration was pretty small - a rounding error compared to the net EU immigration 2005 - 2020.
There are more EU citizens living in the UK now than there were in 2016.
But not thuse working in crucial sectors like health, social care, retail and restaurants, tourism and accommodation, and several others.
There were some links to this, I think from the migration observatory, n an earlier discussion here on PB, thar I can try and dig out if still around later on.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Hmm, OK, fair enough. Probably charging the council less than private clients, then.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
This chap reckoned he was making less than 10p an hour after costs. Of course, it's a small agency and costs may involve his salary as manager!
The £17.10 had to include mileage payments to the care workers for doing the rounds.
Perhaps we need some sort of government insurance scheme...
Six month enquiry on funding of social care and care homes. Three months to write legislation. Three months to pass. All party involvement, buy-in, and whipped vote. Job done. Home for Christmas.
Be interesting to see the next set of polls. Pretty sure Starmer hitting back at Musk the Twitter Twat will up his figures.
I doubt there will be much movement either way.
While people may like SKS hitting back at Musk, I suspect on the substance of the issue you will find a strong majority in favour of a national enquiry.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
Hmm, OK, fair enough. Probably charging the council less than private clients, then.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
This chap reckoned he was making less than 10p an hour after costs. Of course, it's a small agency and costs may involve his salary as manager!
The £17.10 had to include mileage payments to the care workers for doing the rounds.
Perhaps we need some sort of government insurance scheme...
Six month enquiry on funding of social care and care homes. Three months to write legislation. Three months to pass. All party involvement, buy-in, and whipped vote. Job done. Home for Christmas.
Well, a boy can dream.
Labour have a three figure majority. When the fuck are they actually going to use it and govern?
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
Pineapples will be claiming 'harm' as they can no longer be on pizza.
The UK is mad. We import unsustainable numbers of people from the third world and don't even have any groowth to show for it. Why are we importing the most unproductive people?
The OBR model may be to blame.
I read in Tim Shipman's book that immigration is the one dynamic supply-side effect it accepts modelling for in its forecasts, so varying net immigration figures up or down in its model can help (or hinder) you balancing the books by up to £30bn pa or more.
That is certainly one reason. That's why Truss, despite agreeing with her, wanted Braverman to shut up about immigration and was probably quite pleased that she broke the Ministerial code and could be dispatched. Appalling really a) that the OBR has been allowed to get that powerful and b) (more importantly) that its crappy forecasting is not challenged more frequently.
I would much prefer to be living in some sort of equivalent of the mid-1990s, without people like Musk.
With Murdoch at the height of his influence?
This is true. It was the height of the "Sun wot won it" period. On the other hand, especially until the middle of the decade, our public and media culture was in better shape.
I was moving out of youth, but I also remember the hazy glow of Britpop optimism, for those a little younger than me.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
Pineapples will be claiming 'harm' as they can no longer be on pizza.
Japanese businesses will be claiming they have falsely accused of spoiling Christmas. Cats will be lying down with dogs (oh no, wait, that's a different film).
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
I would much prefer to be living in some sort of equivalent of the mid-1990s, without people like Musk.
With Murdoch at the height of his influence?
This is true. It was the height of the "Sun wot won it" period. On the other hand, especially until the middle of the decade, our public and media culture was in better shape.
I was moving out of youth, but I also remember the hazy glow of Britpop optimism, for those a little younger than me.
If you could rewind back to that period, it would have been a good thing to tell Blair he didn't need Alastair Campbell and or to court Murdoch.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Not my money, not my risk, not my call. We have to respect those who are taking the risk and their decisions. It would be unfair to do anything else.
"Much mentioned among my friends is the feeling that the re-election of Donald Trump last year confirms that his ascendancy marked not an aberration but the arrival of a new order. The technocratic, good-mannered, optimistic and consensual politics we grew up with and which have prevailed in the West since the Second World War is not a normality to which we will inevitably return, but a part of history."
News just in: Premier Inn Plus rooms are worth it. Well, for the £11 extra I paid anyway.
Thx for the advice. I'm in a standard room at Heathrow atm. Got to catch a train at 5 tomorrow morning, tried going to sleep at 8pm, and failed miserably.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Not my money, not my risk, not my call. We have to respect those who are taking the risk and their decisions. It would be unfair to do anything else.
I do not know what can or cannot be referred to so by default the most controversial issue in politics is not open to debate and even @Cyclefree is not confident of her quote
Interestingly a report in Nature suggests that those born before 1968 might have a better resistance to Bird Flu because a dominant flu virus matched H5N1. Although not for the same reasons it could have a similar impact to the Spanish Flu when it was the young that were killed off and the old survived (cytokine storm in the healthy). I'm still guessing being old and not in good health is not ideal, but unlike Covid it might be the young that need protecting.
Interestingly a report in Nature suggests that those born before 1968 might have a better resistance to Bird Flu because a dominant flu virus matched H5N1. Although not for the same reasons it could have a similar impact to the Spanish Flu when it was the young that were killed off and the old survived (cytokine storm in the healthy). I'm still guessing being old and not in good health is not ideal, but unlike Covid it might be the young that need protecting.
Too many people asleep at the wheel on this especially in America and god knows what will happen this coming year with RFK running health and vaccines.
Most of them have windows that don't open, and non air conditioning. Also friendly staff, good breakfasts, and a mixture of quirky and Alan Partridge-style guests.
News just in: Premier Inn Plus rooms are worth it. Well, for the £11 extra I paid anyway.
Thx for the advice. I'm in a standard room at Heathrow atm. Got to catch a train at 5 tomorrow morning, tried going to sleep at 8pm, and failed miserably.
Yes, that never works. I will fall asleep at midnight with an alarm set for 6:30 and wake up every half hour after 3.
This is what happens from being self employed and never setting an alarm.
More from the James Marriott article. (It's pretty long so this is only a small segment).
"And we are living through one of the great shifts in cultural history. To future historians the most distinctive cultural feature of the 20th century will not be cinema or jazz but the mass literacy that flourished after late-Victorian education reforms abolished what HG Wells referred to as the social “gulf” that once separated readers from the “non-reading mass”. The long 20th century was the greatest age of reading the world has ever known: newspapers, magazines, self-help books, popular classics, airport bestsellers. Literacy is now declining for the first time on record. A recent OECD report finds that adult reading proficiency is falling around the world. The crucial moment may not have been the arrival of the smartphone but the more recent dominance of short video."
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
...
"Most agencies charge at least £25/hr"
Rubbish. Reference please!
I'm talking what councils pay not what private citizens pay because they have more than £23K in savings.
There are an awful lot of agencies who accept stupidly low margins for work as they can make the money back via tax avoidance schemes that ensure workers don't pay full PAYE taxes (worker temporarily pockets some tax savings, employer pockets the employer cost savings).
There was a scheme closed back in November where HMRC is owed £175m in tax that they won't see...
"Much mentioned among my friends is the feeling that the re-election of Donald Trump last year confirms that his ascendancy marked not an aberration but the arrival of a new order. The technocratic, good-mannered, optimistic and consensual politics we grew up with and which have prevailed in the West since the Second World War is not a normality to which we will inevitably return, but a part of history."
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Not my money, not my risk, not my call. We have to respect those who are taking the risk and their decisions. It would be unfair to do anything else.
I do not know what can or cannot be referred to so by default the most controversial issue in politics is not open to debate and even @Cyclefree is not confident of her quote
I think that people, and I include myself, will also have to be a lot more careful about pointing fingers at particular people in, for example, Post Office Counters Ltd or the Church of England.
We are back to the times when the likes of Robert Maxwell could buy silence about his misdeeds by threats.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
And this is exactly what Starmer (and the Tories before them) are hoping for with these acts. No need to enforce them. Just make sure people are too frightened and cowed (with justification and no criticism intended of the people concerned at all) so they curtail their own freedom of speech.
I will never vote for Farage and Reform for my own personal reasons but I understand why many more will do so with these sorts of laws being enacted by the other parties.
Interestingly a report in Nature suggests that those born before 1968 might have a better resistance to Bird Flu because a dominant flu virus matched H5N1. Although not for the same reasons it could have a similar impact to the Spanish Flu when it was the young that were killed off and the old survived (cytokine storm in the healthy). I'm still guessing being old and not in good health is not ideal, but unlike Covid it might be the young that need protecting.
Were a lot of the Influenza epidemics and pandemics of the 20th Century (1957, 1968, etc) closely related to the original 1918 pandemic?
Edit: And the 1918 pandemic is thought to have potentially had it's origins in a nasty outbreak that occurred in 1868 which is why older people had some immunity in 1918 and younger people didn't.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Horseshit.
Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).
Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.
One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
Did they? Not saying you're wrong, just I don't remember that being a thing.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Not my money, not my risk, not my call. We have to respect those who are taking the risk and their decisions. It would be unfair to do anything else.
I do not know what can or cannot be referred to so by default the most controversial issue in politics is not open to debate and even @Cyclefree is not confident of her quote
I think that people, and I include myself, will also have to be a lot more careful about pointing fingers at particular people in, for example, Post Office Counters Ltd or the Church of England.
We are back to the times when the likes of Robert Maxwell could buy silence about his misdeeds by threats.
If we are not able to say (purely hypothetically, of course) that the head of a public body should be considered responsible for its decisions even if s/he was not directly party to them, then we do have problems.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
And this is exactly what Starmer (and the Tories before them) are hoping for with these acts. No need to enforce them. Just make sure people are too frightened and cowed (with justification and no criticism intended of the people concerned at all) so they curtail their own freedom of speech.
I will never vote for Farage and Reform for my own personal reasons but I understand why many more will do so with these sorts of laws being enacted by the other parties.
Day by day it does feel as though we're edging ever close to a Farage government in 2029...
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Sky is just a moving wallpaper version of the News of the World. I don't know what Starmer has done to Beth Rigby either. She sounds very vindictive.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Sky is just a moving wallpaper version of the News of the World. I don't know what Starmer has done to Beth Rigby either. She sounds very vindictive.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Horseshit.
Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).
Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.
One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
Did they? Not saying you're wrong, just I don't remember that being a thing.
Yeah. It wasn't really the intention or malicious. Just poor drafting, from memory. A single market in nursing qualifications was introduced, and you couldn't discriminate. Of course, you could interview - but formal tests - the same ones we do for non EU nurses - were banned. We fought the ECJ and it looks like we won, so in 2014:
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
And this is exactly what Starmer (and the Tories before them) are hoping for with these acts. No need to enforce them. Just make sure people are too frightened and cowed (with justification and no criticism intended of the people concerned at all) so they curtail their own freedom of speech.
I will never vote for Farage and Reform for my own personal reasons but I understand why many more will do so with these sorts of laws being enacted by the other parties.
Day by day it does feel as though we're edging ever close to a Farage government in 2029...
Thank goodness he would never introduce any sort of repressive legislation. Lover of free speech - just like Elon. *Exactly* like.
More from the James Marriott article. (It's pretty long so this is only a small segment).
"And we are living through one of the great shifts in cultural history. To future historians the most distinctive cultural feature of the 20th century will not be cinema or jazz but the mass literacy that flourished after late-Victorian education reforms abolished what HG Wells referred to as the social “gulf” that once separated readers from the “non-reading mass”. The long 20th century was the greatest age of reading the world has ever known: newspapers, magazines, self-help books, popular classics, airport bestsellers. Literacy is now declining for the first time on record. A recent OECD report finds that adult reading proficiency is falling around the world. The crucial moment may not have been the arrival of the smartphone but the more recent dominance of short video."
The point about the decline of literacy and reading is certainly interesting.
A lot of what I see on social media is essentially memes plus slogans, rather than complex text. I think the commercially-led fixation with a much faster pace in the films, tv, news and online, social media of the last two decades must have a link with the decline of reading.
Until further notice discussions about the grooming story are off limits on PB.
I cannot risk OGH’s financial future, particularly with the Online Safety Bill coming into force shortly.
If you are desperate to discuss this subject there are other places such as Elon Musk’s Twitter platform.
I am posting this for the final time today.
And so the chilling on public discourse starts. I do not blame you or criticise your reasoning. Indeed, serious thought should be given as to whether the likes of PB can survive in the world created by this absurd legislation. Have those at risk considered some form of incorporation to limit their potential exposure?
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
The broadcast media, Yvette Cooper in the house, and newspapers are providing extensive coverage and it seems this issue is not allowed to be referred to on here
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
Sky is just a moving wallpaper version of the News of the World. I don't know what Starmer has done to Beth Rigby either. She sounds very vindictive.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
...
"Most agencies charge at least £25/hr"
Rubbish. Reference please!
I'm talking what councils pay not what private citizens pay because they have more than £23K in savings.
Just went looking and found this from the Homecare Association which represents private companies providing agency homecare personal to councils as well as to the private sector.
"The Homecare Association’s new calculation for the Minimum Price for Homecare in England is £28.53 per hour, effective from April 2024, when the UK’s statutory National Living Wage increases.
Our Minimum Price is the amount required to ensure the minimum legally compliant pay rate for careworkers (excluding any enhancements for unsocial hours working), their travel time, mileage, and wage-related on-costs. The rate also includes the minimum contribution towards the costs of running"
Interestingly a report in Nature suggests that those born before 1968 might have a better resistance to Bird Flu because a dominant flu virus matched H5N1. Although not for the same reasons it could have a similar impact to the Spanish Flu when it was the young that were killed off and the old survived (cytokine storm in the healthy). I'm still guessing being old and not in good health is not ideal, but unlike Covid it might be the young that need protecting.
Were a lot of the Influenza epidemics and pandemics of the 20th Century (1957, 1968, etc) closely related to the original 1918 pandemic?
Edit: And the 1918 pandemic is thought to have potentially had it's origins in a nasty outbreak that occurred in 1868 which is why older people had some immunity in 1918 and younger people didn't.
This is why we need to live forever. Like Brian Blessed. Immune to bird flu due to our genes, bird-man wings, and BACK OF THE THEATRE voices.
Interestingly a report in Nature suggests that those born before 1968 might have a better resistance to Bird Flu because a dominant flu virus matched H5N1. Although not for the same reasons it could have a similar impact to the Spanish Flu when it was the young that were killed off and the old survived (cytokine storm in the healthy). I'm still guessing being old and not in good health is not ideal, but unlike Covid it might be the young that need protecting.
Were a lot of the Influenza epidemics and pandemics of the 20th Century (1957, 1968, etc) closely related to the original 1918 pandemic?
I've not a clue I am afraid as I am no expert. I have taken an interest in the past in the Spanish Flu because of the history and similarly Bird Flu because it is such an obvious risk if it does mutate such that it can be transferred human to human and still maintain its mortality rate.
However I suspect I have badly worded my previous comment. I am not suggesting that the 20th century flu epidemics were closely related to Spanish Flu (I have no idea) nor that Bird Flu is (again I have no idea), just that Nature have suggested an earlier less deadly flu outbreaks prior to 1968 has a similarity to Bird Flu that may provide protection.
I do remember reading before that it wasn't just because of the cytokine storm that the Spanish flu was more deadly to the young but also the old may have been protected by a much earlier pandemic of milder flu.
Please note I am in the realms of not having a clue what I am talking about and suspect any expert reading this will be head butting their wall.
Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!
My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many
On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA
Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
That gives me the horn.
Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita
Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better
WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year
They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in
Fucking madness and they deserve to die
We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.
Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
Don't forget social care workers.
Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it - more than 80% of care workers are native. Or, if you want to be mercenary, take immigrants from anywhere. Why prefer europeans? The average phillipino has better English - and isn't entitled to benefits.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
But that takes time. There was always bound to be a huge influx of people in the interim to replace those gone, unless people wanted the economy to collapse.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
"Increase pay from £11.50 to £13.50 and natives would do it"
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
Most agencies charge at least £25/hr whilst paying minimum wage, but councils have to use them because regulations, certifications, inspections etc etc etc.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
I heard a Radio 4 interview with a Birmingham agency last year. They were getting £17.10 per hour all in. Tight margins, even at minimum wage.
...
"Most agencies charge at least £25/hr"
Rubbish. Reference please!
I'm talking what councils pay not what private citizens pay because they have more than £23K in savings.
Just went looking and found this from the Homecare Association which represents private companies providing agency homecare personal to councils as well as to the private sector.
"The Homecare Association’s new calculation for the Minimum Price for Homecare in England is £28.53 per hour, effective from April 2024, when the UK’s statutory National Living Wage increases.
Our Minimum Price is the amount required to ensure the minimum legally compliant pay rate for careworkers (excluding any enhancements for unsocial hours working), their travel time, mileage, and wage-related on-costs. The rate also includes the minimum contribution towards the costs of running"
Comments
Rishi to his credit raised the visa wage requirement for immigrants with Cleverly and ensured dependents could not come in without a wage earner earning enough to support them, hence net immigration to the UK fell at the end of last year.
Though Boris might have squeezed back Reform a bit he deserves the blame for growing immigration as much as Blair does when he allowed Eastern European migration without transition controls in 2004
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/04/19/boris-johnson-will-not-publicly-lecture-india-ukraine-chases/
2016-20. Asking Farage to fix the problem is like asking the arsonist to rebuild the house, and the Tories were always too frightened to admit that the failures of Brexit meant big increases in immigration from other parts of the world. As usual, though, the British political class, and press, have too short a memory to make any progress.
Meanwhile, we're now not only adrift outside the European structures but hitched to two megalomaniac who want to turn us into a province. Decades of foolishness.
What recourse is there in law for someone harmed or injured if it's just bad manners. And how does equity deal with those that see themselves either above the law or think the law can be bought?
- we must do something
- this is something
- therefore we must do this
Ban media using the algorithm model. Limit it to media using the subscription model. They'll still have access to the same info *but* the bad stuff will come to them slower and only if they look for it. Free speech preserved, but radicalisation slowed to a crawl: less suicides, less death threats. I think this is how Bluesky (spelling?) works: you can still find bad stuff but it's longer and less intense.
https://www.delta-optimist.com/national-news/poll-suggests-13-of-canadians-think-canada-should-become-the-51st-american-state-9932547
And the telegraph are getting (deiberately?) confused when they talk about "£1000 fees for work visas" which actually refer to business visas - i.e the right to visit the UK for work meetings - just as we have the right to visit France or the US without a visa for work meetings.
Why are you not keen?
But Farage is not "the one" to finish them I feel. On issues such as Putin and Russia he is on the wrong side. Maybe Rupert Lowe might be better, idk.
This "we need them" stuff is so mawkish. We "need them" only because of policy decisions we take. It's not a fucking law of physics.
It's just that the Tories, and their press outlets, had to lie about this part, to win the 2019 election.
Boris was always pro-immigration and made no secret of the fact he was dropping the tens of thousands pledge.
Pay is about to go up to a minimum of £12.21
To go higher would require UK government to give more to councils for social care. That is on hold awaiting three years of analysing the problem yet again by yet another commission.
You do wonder whether it would be better done in house or through a National Care Service (probably not, but it is a thought).
But the cost of the care worker's wage is at best only 50% of the problem.
"We will reduce unskilled immigration, says Johnson."
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50412772
They well knew that this was fantasy land rubbish, after.thr exodus from Brexit.
Rubbish. Reference please!
I'm talking what councils pay not what private citizens pay because they have more than £23K in savings.
I know this happens (like it does in care homes) but maybe the discount depends on the agency.
I read in Tim Shipman's book that immigration is the one dynamic supply-side effect it accepts modelling for in its forecasts, so varying net immigration figures up or down in its model can help (or hinder) you balancing the books by up to £30bn pa or more.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/eu-migration-to-and-from-the-uk/
And, post 2020, EU emigration was pretty small - a rounding error compared to the net EU immigration 2005 - 2020.
There are more EU citizens living in the UK now than there were in 2016.
The £17.10 had to include mileage payments to the care workers for doing the rounds.
So if you saved all your life but unlucky to get dementia rather than "medical" illness like cancer then you are getting shat on twice: first you lose your life savings unlike your neighbour whohas cancer and is being treated totally for free on the NHS and secondly some of what you lose is paying for other people.
There were some links to this, I think from the migration observatory, n an
earlier discussion here on PB, thar I can try and dig out if still around later on.
Well, a boy can dream.
The patient, in Louisiana, had underlying medical conditions
https://x.com/adamfeuerstein/status/1876380742667972656
While people may like SKS hitting back at Musk, I suspect on the substance of the issue you will find a strong majority in favour of a national enquiry.
We have huge freedom on this site to say what we want about almost anything (Radiohead being a possible exception). With that freedom comes responsibility and that burden of responsibility has just got considerably heavier. We all need to be aware of this. We live in a Brave New World and it is not as free as we are used to.
Goodnight all.
(And @TSE I hope this doesn't breach your rule. But if so, apologies and please remove.)
I was moving out of youth, but I also remember the hazy glow of Britpop optimism, for those a little younger than me.
Of course I understand the concerns, but if this is applied to controversial issues then I do think it has huge implications for free speech no matter which side of the debate you are on
I assume it would be out of order to refer to debate in the house of commons or indeed a very interesting debate on Sky
James Marriott in the Times.
"Much mentioned among my friends is the feeling that the re-election of Donald Trump last year confirms that his ascendancy marked not an aberration but the arrival of a new order. The technocratic, good-mannered, optimistic and consensual politics we grew up with and which have prevailed in the West since the Second World War is not a normality to which we will inevitably return, but a part of history."
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/were-seeing-the-end-of-the-long-20th-century-0lqlr3pm9
It appears a cable has been damaged between China and Taiwan. Who'd have thought it? Inaction has consequences.
Fascinating BBC report on why Vietnamese cross the channel, even though Vietnam is doing well.
Most of them have windows that don't open, and non air conditioning. Also friendly staff, good breakfasts, and a mixture of quirky and Alan Partridge-style guests.
This is what happens from being self employed and never setting an alarm.
"And we are living through one of the great shifts in cultural history. To future historians the most distinctive cultural feature of the 20th century will not be cinema or jazz but the mass literacy that flourished after late-Victorian education reforms abolished what HG Wells referred to as the social “gulf” that once separated readers from the “non-reading mass”. The long 20th century was the greatest age of reading the world has ever known: newspapers, magazines, self-help books, popular classics, airport bestsellers.
Literacy is now declining for the first time on record. A recent OECD report finds that adult reading proficiency is falling around the world. The crucial moment may not have been the arrival of the smartphone but the more recent dominance of short video."
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/were-seeing-the-end-of-the-long-20th-century-0lqlr3pm9
There was a scheme closed back in November where HMRC is owed £175m in tax that they won't see...
We are back to the times when the likes of Robert Maxwell could buy silence about his misdeeds by threats.
I will never vote for Farage and Reform for my own personal reasons but I understand why many more will do so with these sorts of laws being enacted by the other parties.
Edit: And the 1918 pandemic is thought to have potentially had it's origins in a nasty outbreak that occurred in 1868 which is why older people had some immunity in 1918 and younger people didn't.
https://www.bmj.com/content/348/bmj.g1809.long
A lot of what I see on social media is essentially memes plus slogans, rather than complex text. I think the commercially-led fixation with a much faster pace in the films, tv, news and online, social media of the last two decades must have a link with the decline of reading.
What about the OSA in those remarks
"The Homecare Association’s new calculation for the Minimum Price for Homecare in England is £28.53 per hour, effective from April 2024, when the UK’s statutory National Living Wage increases.
Our Minimum Price is the amount required to ensure the minimum legally compliant pay rate for careworkers (excluding any enhancements for unsocial hours working), their travel time, mileage, and wage-related on-costs. The rate also includes the minimum contribution towards the costs of running"
However I suspect I have badly worded my previous comment. I am not suggesting that the 20th century flu epidemics were closely related to Spanish Flu (I have no idea) nor that Bird Flu is (again I have no idea), just that Nature have suggested an earlier less deadly flu outbreaks prior to 1968 has a similarity to Bird Flu that may provide protection.
I do remember reading before that it wasn't just because of the cytokine storm that the Spanish flu was more deadly to the young but also the old may have been protected by a much earlier pandemic of milder flu.
Please note I am in the realms of not having a clue what I am talking about and suspect any expert reading this will be head butting their wall.