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Safety or Freedom? – politicalbetting.com

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171
    glw said:

    TimS said:

    There’s as much danger in writing him off as a bit of an irritating child as there is in sanewashing, in my opinion. He has the potential to present a real national security threat to British interests. I hope that our intelligence services are already rethinking aspects of 5 eyes.

    He is a wannabe tyrant. He talks like a tyrant, he behaves like a tyrant. Even his occasional moments of charm are consistent with tyrants through the ages. Thankfully for now there are constitutional obstacles to him actually becoming a tyrant. But he will try.

    When people tell upon who they are, believe them.

    If this keeps up the US will soon be an adversary not an ally.
    That is perfectly possible.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    Former Vice President Mike Pence on social media called Vice President Kamala Harris “particularly admirable” for presiding over the certification of her own presidential loss.

    “I welcome the return of order and civility to these historic proceedings,” he added.


    NY Times blog
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    Lefties can't get over their circle-jerk over immigration.

    It's like the volume of it enhances their orgasm.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    carnforth said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Why don't we unify the UK and EU then?
    I think that would be a better way to approach things than the UK applying to join the EU. A negotiation on an Act of Union between the UK and the EU would be a better way to go about things.

    I'd be willing to give every EU member state a new hereditary peer in the House of Lords, if it weren't the case that Labour were booting them all out.
    Baroness von der Leyen has a ring to it. We could get the Hapsburgs in too...
    Wasn't she in the sound of music?
    The tills are alive ... in the single market
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Am I allowed to agreed with this? I haven't checked the implementation date.

    Yes, when is that? Does anybody know?
    According to s194 Ofcom has 18 months from when the Act was passed (which I think was 23rd October last year) in which to publish its guidance. Which is, of course, preposterous as we will not know until then (and possibly after) what the law actually is.
    According to s240 (I kid you not) the commencement dates are:
    240 Commencement and transitional provision
    (1) Except as provided by subsection (4), this Act comes into force on such day as the Secretary of State may by regulations appoint.
    (2) The power to make regulations under subsection (1) includes power to appoint different days for different purposes.
    (3) Regulations under subsection (1) may not bring section 210 into force before the end of the period of six months beginning with the date specified in regulations under paragraph 8(1) of Schedule 3.
    (4) The following provisions come into force on the day on which this Act is passed—
    (a) Parts 1 and 2;
    (b) Chapter 1 of Part 3;
    (c) section 41, except subsection (4) of that section;
    (d) section 42 and Schedule 4;
    (e) sections 43 to 48;
    (f) section 52(3), (4) and (5);
    (g) section 53, except subsection (2) of that section;
    (h) Chapter 7 of Part 3 and Schedules 5, 6 and 7;
    (i) section 70;
    (j) section 74;
    (k) section 79;
    (l) section 80(4);
    (m) section 82;
    (n) sections 90 and 91;
    (o) section 93;
    (p) section 94 and Schedule 11;
    (q) Chapter 3 of Part 7;
    (r) sections 115 to 117;
    (s) section 129;
    (t) section 151;
    (u) section 154 so far as relating to a duty imposed on OFCOM under Schedule 11;
    (v) sections 169 and 170;
    (w) section 193, except subsection (2)(b) of that section;
    (x) section 194;
    (y) section 204(1);
    (z) section 207;
    (z1) section 212;
    (z2) section 214;
    (z3) section 219;
    (z4) sections 221 to 225;
    (z5) this Part.

    Life is simply way too short to work out what that means.
    Ofcom have a detailed website about the Act, including a timeline.
  • HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    Some family members have returned to the UK after working in healthcare in Canada for many years, they reported the same.

    They cited rising crime, plus inflation as key drivers of public dissatisfaction with Trudeau. One of those leaders who is definitely viewed far more favourably overseas, without much reason.
    Yet Trudeau has been Canadian PM for 9 years ie longer than every US President since FDR has been in office and longer than every UK PM since WW2 has been in office except for Blair and Thatcher. He also won 3 Canadian general elections so clearly they thought something of him even if like every political leader he has reached his shelf life
    Canadian Tories were in shambles, though, he was the only game in town. Trudeau rode a wave of optimism and his father's name.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    edited January 6

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    Not happening, the US did not throw out the British King in 1776 to restore his descendant as their head of state 3 centuries later.

    Nor do Canadians, Australians, Brits and Kiwis want lots of Trump MAGA white nationalist and evangelical anti abortion voters voting in their elections
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,689

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    The RSS Conference 2025 is in Edinburgh, specifically the Edinburgh International Conference Centre. Does anybody have a comment, pro or con, about Edinburgh Airport?

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/nNB8E3uhHcx5KKhY9
    https://rss.org.uk/training-events/conference-2025/

    It's fine. Public transport links to the city centre are good.
    My mild upcoming Scottish transport irritation is arriving at Inverness station on the sleeper train but having to pick up a hire car from the airport because there are hardly any car hire firms in town. So a taxi fare. Kind of situation where you need a shuttle bus.
    Did you decide which part of this dreich corner of paradise you are going to stay in?
    Yep, we're staying in Assynt, up in the North West close to the coast. Suilven etc. I'm looking forward to it and hopefully there will be at least one brief break in the dreichness.
    Should be sunny but very cold. Enjoy! STV weather forecast tends to be more accurate than the BBC.
    Single transferable vote is better at all things!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    I completely agree.
    And the obvious place to put a capital for such a union would be somewhere close to the Greenwich Meridian I would suggest.
    Except that's where the post-imperial delusions would come in. We'd be nothing more than a province. Even the combined populatiions of the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about a third of the current U.S. population, and the current centres of power would certainly never accede to Europe or the Pacific.
    London would instantly become one of the top-tier US cities with equal cultural importance to LA and NYC.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Good article @Cyclefree, both it and the others you have published on PB recently.

    Leon said:

    On a less serious note; Bravo @cyclefree for a prescient and clairvoyant article


    I’d be quite happy with @Cyclefree as our prime minister, as long as she agrees to keep her speeches shorter than 4 hours

    😂

    Sweetie - have DM'd you. If we're both in London at the same time I'll even treat you to lunch while I shamelessly pick your brains.

    Actually, I am a bloody wonderful speaker because (a) I never read out written down speeches - absolutely deadly; (b) have a few key points in my head I want to make and decide what I will say and how at about the time I stand up to make them and (c) above all - a talk is a performance and to get it right you have to read and respond to your audience. I love doing that and the consequence is that you are editing as you go in response to how what you are saying is landing. Any good speaker is listening at the same time. It's a conversation even if the audience is silent.

    So tell me I have 3 mins or 30mins or 15 mins I can stick to that time, no problem. Writing OTOH is solitary and there isn't that immediate connection with a live audience which makes that editing process so much harder.
    I do exactly the same as you @Cyclefree

    I get criticised by my Big4 employer for not talking to the slides but also asked why I'm such a good presenter! 🤣
    The best talks are the ones without any slides at all. If you have to have them, have as few as possible and as few words on them if you do have them. People read much faster than you speak and if all you're doing is repeating what's on the slides then you've already lost your audience.

    All presentations are a performance.
    I suggest trying PechaKucha format.
  • Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    The Canadians I've met I do find to have quite an Anglo-European sensibility, and very different from the Aussusz, for instance.

    I've always thought the Anglo-French Union that nearly was in 1940 would have been a great nation, and something about Canada hints that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    Oh dear. Labour have had to delete their furry campaign video because the song they used had some unfortunate lyrics in Portuguese.

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1876309562162041279
  • Or even Aussues !
    Right, thar really is it for tonight.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    The Canadians I've met I do find to have quite an Anglo-European sensibility, and very different from the Aussusz, for instance.

    I've always thought the Anglo-French Union that nearly was in 1940 would have been a great nation, and something about Canada hints that.
    It would have been an impossible tussle between Paris and London for supremacy

    We would have resented the greater beauty and immediate allure of Paris, they would have resented the financial weight and - in time - English language dominance of more dynamic London
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,090
    edited January 6

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    Free movement with California, Hawaii and Australia would be very popular.
    Half the population of the UK moving to Hawaii would be funny.

    In reality though I wonder what would really happen. Lots of poorer unemployed Americans move to UK for the better benefits system while some of our middle class citizens move Stateside?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935
    kle4 said:

    Is it really too much to ask that this be 'to resign as PM' rather than 'resigns as PM'? I mean, the subtitle makes clear he has not resigned yet after all.

    I think if you say you are stepping down on a shortly forthcoming date, that counts as resigning.

    If you’re in a job and you hand in your resignation, but have to work out a notice period, wouldn’t you say you resigned in the day you made your announcement, not on the last day you worked?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    I completely agree.
    And the obvious place to put a capital for such a union would be somewhere close to the Greenwich Meridian I would suggest.
    Except that's where the post-imperial delusions would come in. We'd be nothing more than a province. Even the combined populatiions of the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about a third of the current U.S. population, and the current centres of power would certainly never accede to Europe or the Pacific.
    London would instantly become one of the top-tier US cities with equal cultural importance to LA and NYC.
    London would be the most populous for sure, just ahead of NYC, and England would be by far the largest State in the Anglospheric Commonwealth, with 92 Electors.

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Northern Marianas, West Virgin Islands, and Eastern Samoa 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707
    edited January 6
    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I am not outraged by the online safety act and do not consider it a threat to freedom of speech in any meaningful sense.

    Is there literally nobody else on PB who feels the same? Am I truly the special one?

    I know you are the least self aware person on here, but does not your total isolation on this issue not make you wonder that maybe you’ve got it wrong?
    It's not something I enjoy, being alone, but I'm sensing a bit of the old groupthink here.

    Anyway looks like I'm not in complete isolation. Others have now bravely come forward. Although not many tbf.
    I'll stick my head up and say I'm at least unsure about how I feel about the bill and am suspicious of the groupthink that PB often gets into.

    I don't like the negative effects on free speech, but nor do I like the ability of algorithms to rapidly spread misinformation that is poisoning political debate in this country.

    At the moment, I'm not sure which is the worst of the two worlds.

    Hardly a ringing endorsement, I grant you.
    I have read some very detailed legal analyses of the Act from reputable lawyers specialising in this area of law and the general view is that it is a mess because it has not properly taken into account other important legal requirements, its definitions are vague, it gives too much power to unaccountable regulators with little scrutiny and will result in endless court challenges. It will have a chilling effect - especially on smaller forums.

    I'm afraid that, nice as @kinabalu is, in my experience he tends not to bother actually informing himself in detail of what laws or Bills actually say before declaring himself "relaxed" about them. My starting point is that I do not think it is the job of the state to prevent "offence". People have a choice about whether they take offence or not and in a democracy debate should not be left at a level suitable only for babies. Good manners and respectful disagreement are great and desirable but there is a difference between unlawful conduct and very bad manners and these days the distinction between the two is being elided, to our detriment. The law should not seek to impose good manners.
    Oh I see it's like that, is it. Ok, let's do a callout and see if we can find somebody more worthy to disagree with you.
    I am teasing you. Have a look at the link I sent you.

    My view is that this sort of legislation with regulations and codes and guidance is a very bad way to make law because it leads to confusion rather than clarity. I held this view over the Covid rules and said so at the time and I think it's also the case with laws like the Equality Act - see for instance the latest guidance out for consultation from the EHRC. It was also one of the problems with the regulations and guidance on fire resistance in the Building Regulations. See the Moore-Bick Report on the Grenfell Tower fire for how that was one of the causes. Or look at the Assisted Dying Bill .

    It is really poor law-making and risks ending up, precisely because of the confusion, being oppressive - even if this was not the intention.
    ...which all converges on Malmesbury's Process State. I would say you two should get together to write a book but perhaps it would be best done separately, as part of a series, especially as yours is so well advanced.

    Speaking of which, @Malmesbury : how far along is your Blob article?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,819
    edited January 6

    kle4 said:

    Is it really too much to ask that this be 'to resign as PM' rather than 'resigns as PM'? I mean, the subtitle makes clear he has not resigned yet after all.

    I think if you say you are stepping down on a shortly forthcoming date, that counts as resigning.

    If you’re in a job and you hand in your resignation, but have to work out a notice period, wouldn’t you say you resigned in the day you made your announcement, not on the last day you worked?
    Having done this recently - I can't remember when I said I'd go, but I do know exactly when I'm out of there...
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,090

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    Sadly the EU doesn't let non-European countries join (ignore Cyprus, they don't count *cough*)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,935

    kle4 said:

    Is it really too much to ask that this be 'to resign as PM' rather than 'resigns as PM'? I mean, the subtitle makes clear he has not resigned yet after all.

    I think if you say you are stepping down on a shortly forthcoming date, that counts as resigning.

    If you’re in a job and you hand in your resignation, but have to work out a notice period, wouldn’t you say you resigned in the day you made your announcement, not on the last day you worked?
    Having done this recently - I can't remember when I said I'd go, but I do know exactly when I'm out of there...
    But would you say now “I have resigned” or “I will be resigning on date X”?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    I might stick on Flight of the Navigator.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333

    I might stick on Flight of the Navigator.

    Compliance!
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,819

    kle4 said:

    Is it really too much to ask that this be 'to resign as PM' rather than 'resigns as PM'? I mean, the subtitle makes clear he has not resigned yet after all.

    I think if you say you are stepping down on a shortly forthcoming date, that counts as resigning.

    If you’re in a job and you hand in your resignation, but have to work out a notice period, wouldn’t you say you resigned in the day you made your announcement, not on the last day you worked?
    Having done this recently - I can't remember when I said I'd go, but I do know exactly when I'm out of there...
    But would you say now “I have resigned” or “I will be resigning on date X”?
    I have agreed to leave on date X.

    Resigning should surely be reserved for something that has immediate effect. Particularly in politics.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    CatMan said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    Sadly the EU doesn't let non-European countries join (ignore Cyprus, they don't count *cough*)
    Plenty of non-European territories in the EU (eg. French Guiana, Mayotte, Aruba, Curacao, etc.).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707

    I might stick on Flight of the Navigator.

    See here for a 23-minute discussion of a possible reboot format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwethgVsvcM

    (incidentally, did you mean Flight of the Phoenix?)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    CatMan said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    Free movement with California, Hawaii and Australia would be very popular.
    Half the population of the UK moving to Hawaii would be funny.
    Fun fact:

    Washington DC is closer to London than it is to Honolulu!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470
    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    I agree. Certainly social media as it has been allowed to develop.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,037
    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    You should put it on social media so that it can be read on smartphones.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,470

    CSPAN
    @cspan
    ·
    12m
    .
    @VP
    Kamala Harris after Electoral College Vote Count Certification: "Today was obviously a very important day. It was about what should be the norm and what the American people should take for granted...America's democracy is only as strong as our willingness to fight for it."

    https://x.com/cspan/status/1876354861505130705
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,062
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,090

    CatMan said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    Sadly the EU doesn't let non-European countries join (ignore Cyprus, they don't count *cough*)
    Plenty of non-European territories in the EU (eg. French Guiana, Mayotte, Aruba, Curacao, etc.).
    You're right. Give Canada a small part of European territory and they'd be eligible! But what? Can't give them Gibraltar (legally have to offer it to Spain first I believe). Maybe a couple of square miles of Cornwall, or the Outer Hebrides?
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,937
    edited January 6
    Leon said:

    Off to Mexico om Wednesday for 2 weeks - Mexico City, Tecotihuacan, butterfly sanctuary, a couple of smaller towns and three days on the beach to finish up. Any tips? I'm particularly keen to choose some interesting options in Mexico City (we'll be there for 4 nights, though only one day completely free of other things), which seems to have an embarassment of riches (and some risky areas). More interested in lively scenes than museums and galleries.

    Go to visit the house of Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo. I know you don’t want history/art stuff but it is genuinely fascinating, genuinely beautiful and also located in probably the nicest area of Mexico City (which is indeed not a very nice city, be careful, esp at night - be careful even when hailing taxis). It’s full of bars and students and leafy areas and nice places to eat and drink

    Obviously go to the great anthropological museum, I know you don’t like museums either, but it’s astonishing, once in a lifetime, Even a history hater will be amazed

    And go INSIDE the great pyramid of the Aztecs right next to the cathedral, in the heart of old Tenochtitlan

    Allow a whole day for Teotihuacan, OMFG. There’s actually a couple of decent restaurants there where you can lunch, staring at the pyramids
    Mexico is the size of the UK plus France plus Spain. And you are going there for only 14 days? Discount a bit for jet lag. And altitude. And please don't kill yourself by trying to take in too much....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,707

    kle4 said:

    Is it really too much to ask that this be 'to resign as PM' rather than 'resigns as PM'? I mean, the subtitle makes clear he has not resigned yet after all.

    I think if you say you are stepping down on a shortly forthcoming date, that counts as resigning.

    If you’re in a job and you hand in your resignation, but have to work out a notice period, wouldn’t you say you resigned in the day you made your announcement, not on the last day you worked?
    Having done this recently - I can't remember when I said I'd go, but I do know exactly when I'm out of there...
    But would you say now “I have resigned” or “I will be resigning on date X”?
    "I have resigned with effect from..."
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,095
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    Sadly the EU doesn't let non-European countries join (ignore Cyprus, they don't count *cough*)
    Plenty of non-European territories in the EU (eg. French Guiana, Mayotte, Aruba, Curacao, etc.).
    You're right. Give Canada a small part of European territory and they'd be eligible! But what? Can't give them Gibraltar (legally have to offer it to Spain first I believe). Maybe a couple of square miles of Cornwall, or the Outer Hebrides?
    Simple transfer:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,999

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    I completely agree.
    And the obvious place to put a capital for such a union would be somewhere close to the Greenwich Meridian I would suggest.
    Except that's where the post-imperial delusions would come in. We'd be nothing more than a province. Even the combined populatiions of the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about a third of the current U.S. population, and the current centres of power would certainly never accede to Europe or the Pacific.
    London would instantly become one of the top-tier US cities with equal cultural importance to LA and NYC.
    London would be the most populous for sure, just ahead of NYC, and England would be by far the largest State in the Anglospheric Commonwealth, with 92 Electors.

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Northern Marianas, West Virgin Islands, and Eastern Samoa 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9
    Quite interesting but the numbers are wrong. The House has limited numbers to 435.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,758
    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    ClippP said:

    Leon said:

    Off to Mexico om Wednesday for 2 weeks - Mexico City, Tecotihuacan, butterfly sanctuary, a couple of smaller towns and three days on the beach to finish up. Any tips? I'm particularly keen to choose some interesting options in Mexico City (we'll be there for 4 nights, though only one day completely free of other things), which seems to have an embarassment of riches (and some risky areas). More interested in lively scenes than museums and galleries.

    Go to visit the house of Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo. I know you don’t want history/art stuff but it is genuinely fascinating, genuinely beautiful and also located in probably the nicest area of Mexico City (which is indeed not a very nice city, be careful, esp at night - be careful even when hailing taxis). It’s full of bars and students and leafy areas and nice places to eat and drink

    Obviously go to the great anthropological museum, I know you don’t like museums either, but it’s astonishing, once in a lifetime, Even a history hater will be amazed

    And go INSIDE the great pyramid of the Aztecs right next to the cathedral, in the heart of old Tenochtitlan

    Allow a whole day for Teotihuacan, OMFG. There’s actually a couple of decent restaurants there where you can lunch, staring at the pyramids
    Mexico is the size of the UK plus France plus Spain. And you are going there for only 14 days? Discount a bit for jet lag. And altitude. And please don't killy ourself by trying to take in too much....
    That message should be aimed at NPXMP, not me

    I entirely agree, however. Mexico is huge and needs about 3 months, but of course 99.994% of people do not have 3 months to spare

    I’ve been all over in my time, from Yucatán and Chiapas to Oaxaca, Acapulco, Tijuana and the Copper Canyon

    I’ve even been to Cuidad thingy and managed not to get beheaded
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907
    edited January 6
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    kinabalu said:

    As this article makes very clear, if we pulled out of the ECHR, as many on here wish, there would be no way of limiting the effects of this law - and we could easily have governments elected by around 30% of voters deciding what are human rights are. I suspect many on here would not like Keir Starmer or Yvette Cooper setting the rules, just as I would recoil from Kemi Badenoch or Robert Jenrick doing it.

    However, it's only fair to say that we do not have free speech in this country and never have.

    Nor do most other developed countries. Almost everyone says they believe in free speech but what they usually mean is apart from x, y and z. The law seeks to reflect this. To strike a balance between several things all of which are important and only one of which is the right to say whatever the hell you want to whoever the hell you want.
    In itself i think that is fair, people do tend to be a bit absolutist in rhetoric at least, though personally i do think our current balance is poor and getting poorer.
    Speech is too restricted in this country iyo? What makes you think that?
    Super injunctions and NDAs all over the place. All kinds of punishments for whistleblowers. Law of libel used to protect the rich and powerful.

    Or do you think those noted alt-Right extremists at Private Eye are ignorant of what they are talking about?
    Yes there's too much of that imo.
    And this law is a charter for more.

    Someone commented that they can’t believe the CPS would spend time going after X. Well, look at Libel Tourism and Lawfare.

    There are, right now, consultants in this. You hire them and they run targeted campaigns of legal harassment against your designated victims.

    All they need to do, now, is to claim that your blog has hurt their feelings - cease and desist letters to your host and service providers follow.

    Frequently, the providers don’t wait for a legal judgement - they close accounts on the basis of “legally complicated”. As in they got a letter from high priced lawyers.
    It beggars belief, the naivety on here - the firm conviction that rich individuals, activist lawyers and the saintly British government will never abuse this law

    Imagine if Reform win in 2028. Far from impossible. Then Farage disappears and his replacement is much more sinister. And he decides that PRO-migration sentiment is dangerous for the country. Or publishing verses from the Koran. Or agreeing with the EU. All they have to do is prove someone is distressed by this and then that online speech is prohibited
    Or, just imagine, someone decides to buy one the most powerful sources of spreading viral information on the planet and then decides to use it to campaign for an absolute wanker to be President of the USA, including promising a million dollars to anyone who signs up to a PAC supporting the wanker.

    The world you fear is already here, it just hasn't affected you yet.

    This bill is crap, I believe cyclefree on that. Just not sure it's worse than giving the viral muck spreaders free rein.
    Elon musk is not about to destroy free speech in the UK. This bill could
    You sure? He has sufficient power over what gets talked about at the moment that I'm pretty confident he could, and will, have a big impact on the political narrative in the UK in the next four years. Just look at the thing we're not talking about.

    'Destroying free speech' doesn't just happen if people are prevented from speaking. It also happens if a small number of powerful people are able to control the public narrative.

    I don't think it's an either/or btw, but I think the *intention* of this bill is good: to reduce the degree to which companies can wash their hands of the bile that gets spread around on their platforms.

    The implementation is crap, but I will go elsewhere than PB to judge how crap.
    That's a fair point - but not an argument in favour of this bill.
    Which, apart from its manifest defects, won't really remedy that situation.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,062
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    Sadly the EU doesn't let non-European countries join (ignore Cyprus, they don't count *cough*)
    Plenty of non-European territories in the EU (eg. French Guiana, Mayotte, Aruba, Curacao, etc.).
    You're right. Give Canada a small part of European territory and they'd be eligible! But what? Can't give them Gibraltar (legally have to offer it to Spain first I believe). Maybe a couple of square miles of Cornwall, or the Outer Hebrides?
    The King could decide that the Isle of Man should be part of his Canadian Realm.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,062
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    I completely agree.
    And the obvious place to put a capital for such a union would be somewhere close to the Greenwich Meridian I would suggest.
    Except that's where the post-imperial delusions would come in. We'd be nothing more than a province. Even the combined populatiions of the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about a third of the current U.S. population, and the current centres of power would certainly never accede to Europe or the Pacific.
    London would instantly become one of the top-tier US cities with equal cultural importance to LA and NYC.
    I thought the idea was to get a leg up.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,045
    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    The Government have.
    That is literally what this Bill is about. The fear of the effects of social media and a (very clumsy and authoritarian) way to deal with it.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,810
    https://x.com/bbcafrica/status/1876332986951442593

    French President Emmanuel Macron said that the African Sahel states “forgot” to thank France from preventing their nations of falling under the control of militants.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,907
    .

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    And is also a francophone nation...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    The Government have.
    That is literally what this Bill is about. The fear of the effects of social media and a (very clumsy and authoritarian) way to deal with it.
    Is there a competing better way to do it out there?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,763

    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    The Government have.
    That is literally what this Bill is about. The fear of the effects of social media and a (very clumsy and authoritarian) way to deal with it.

    The *last* Government did. Not sure what the procedures for the current Government (which party did support much of it) to stop it are.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580


    CSPAN
    @cspan
    ·
    12m
    .
    @VP
    Kamala Harris after Electoral College Vote Count Certification: "Today was obviously a very important day. It was about what should be the norm and what the American people should take for granted...America's democracy is only as strong as our willingness to fight for it."

    https://x.com/cspan/status/1876354861505130705

    That bit was fine. This bit was rather sanctimonious and republican 'Harris recorded a video message that was released prior to the certification, telling viewers, "The peaceful transfer of power is one of the most fundamental principles of American democracy. As much as any other principle, it is what distinguishes our system of government from monarchy or tyranny."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    Theresa May did with her online safety bill, as it seems did Albanese in Australia
    https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/australia-proposes-ban-social-media-those-under-16-2024-11-06/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,763

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    Sadly the EU doesn't let non-European countries join (ignore Cyprus, they don't count *cough*)
    Plenty of non-European territories in the EU (eg. French Guiana, Mayotte, Aruba, Curacao, etc.).
    You're right. Give Canada a small part of European territory and they'd be eligible! But what? Can't give them Gibraltar (legally have to offer it to Spain first I believe). Maybe a couple of square miles of Cornwall, or the Outer Hebrides?
    The King could decide that the Isle of Man should be part of his Canadian Realm.
    Shocked at the ignorance on here. It's been known for centuries that part of Edinburgh Castle (the bit where they have the annual Military Tattoo) is Canadian ground (more precisely, Nova Scotian).

    https://www.scottishmilitarydisasters.com/index.php/14-titles/75-selling-nova-scotia

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nova_Scotia_plaque,_Edinburgh_Castle_Esplanade.jpg
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
    I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in

    Fucking madness and they deserve to die
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    edited January 6
    HYUFD said:


    CSPAN
    @cspan
    ·
    12m
    .
    @VP
    Kamala Harris after Electoral College Vote Count Certification: "Today was obviously a very important day. It was about what should be the norm and what the American people should take for granted...America's democracy is only as strong as our willingness to fight for it."

    https://x.com/cspan/status/1876354861505130705

    That bit was fine. This bit was rather sanctimonious and republican 'Harris recorded a video message that was released prior to the certification, telling viewers, "The peaceful transfer of power is one of the most fundamental principles of American democracy. As much as any other principle, it is what distinguishes our system of government from monarchy or tyranny."
    Elected head of state!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    Some family members have returned to the UK after working in healthcare in Canada for many years, they reported the same.

    They cited rising crime, plus inflation as key drivers of public dissatisfaction with Trudeau. One of those leaders who is definitely viewed far more favourably overseas, without much reason.
    Yet Trudeau has been Canadian PM for 9 years ie longer than every US President since FDR has been in office and longer than every UK PM since WW2 has been in office except for Blair and Thatcher. He also won 3 Canadian general elections so clearly they thought something of him even if like every political leader he has reached his shelf life
    Canadian Tories were in shambles, though, he was the only game in town. Trudeau rode a wave of optimism and his father's name.
    Not really Scheer and O'Toole were credible opponents and both won the popular vote even if Trudeau won most seats and Harper had been PM for 9 years himself in 2015 when Trudeau beat him
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    I am sure once she reads PB, Kemi will oppose this Communism.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    I completely agree.
    And the obvious place to put a capital for such a union would be somewhere close to the Greenwich Meridian I would suggest.
    Except that's where the post-imperial delusions would come in. We'd be nothing more than a province. Even the combined populatiions of the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about a third of the current U.S. population, and the current centres of power would certainly never accede to Europe or the Pacific.
    London would instantly become one of the top-tier US cities with equal cultural importance to LA and NYC.
    London would be the most populous for sure, just ahead of NYC, and England would be by far the largest State in the Anglospheric Commonwealth, with 92 Electors.

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Northern Marianas, West Virgin Islands, and Eastern Samoa 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9
    Quite interesting but the numbers are wrong. The House has limited numbers to 435.
    These figures are for the Electoral College of the Anglospheric Commonwealth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    I can report that Biz Class on “China Eastern Airlines” is surprisingly nice

    I made a punt and it came good. So far
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    I think The Economist's idea this week of Canada joining the EU makes more sense.
    Similar values, and the EU has people but few resources, Canada has resources but few people.
    And is also a francophone nation...
    Conversely, 54% of Quebec residents are "conversant" in the King's.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    The Kandyman says hi !
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    I am sure once she reads PB, Kemi will oppose this Communism.
    The Kembot!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,758
    Taz said:

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    The Kandyman says hi !
    And bears no relation to Bertie whatsoever. No sir. No relation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.

    Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,095
    Leon said:

    I can report that Biz Class on “China Eastern Airlines” is surprisingly nice

    I made a punt and it came good. So far

    Second best Chinese airline after Air China. I'm on China Eastern tomorrow. London to Taipei £452 return. Cheapest "real" airline £800.

    Shitty website, though. Lucky if you can complete a booking.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,758
    kinabalu said:

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.

    Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
    Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    viewcode said:

    I might stick on Flight of the Navigator.

    See here for a 23-minute discussion of a possible reboot format: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwethgVsvcM

    (incidentally, did you mean Flight of the Phoenix?)
    No.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229

    I might stick on Flight of the Navigator.

    Compliance!
    Compliant!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    I am sure once she reads PB, Kemi will oppose this Communism.
    That will certainly get her another "well done Kemi" from the Power That Be.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,671

    I might stick on Flight of the Navigator.

    Compliance!
    Compliant!
    Complacency Mr Speaker.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    edited January 6
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that Biz Class on “China Eastern Airlines” is surprisingly nice

    I made a punt and it came good. So far

    Second best Chinese airline after Air China. I'm on China Eastern tomorrow. London to Taipei £452 return. Cheapest "real" airline £800.

    Shitty website, though. Lucky if you can complete a booking.
    Really cracking menu



    I’ve got a theory. This biz class seat was not THAT much expensive than Premium Economy on Thai, BA etc. The hitch is a stopover in Shanghai. However there are many worse cities in the world to stopover on the way back and spend a few days. Shanghai! I love Shanghai

    So why so cheap? I reckon Chinese airlines are trying to copy the gulf airlines and EVA from years back. Come in with really cheap and seductive offerings. Wipe out some of the competition. Then slowly raise the prices once people are hooked and they have the customers

    Its working with me, so far
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that Biz Class on “China Eastern Airlines” is surprisingly nice

    I made a punt and it came good. So far

    Second best Chinese airline after Air China. I'm on China Eastern tomorrow. London to Taipei £452 return. Cheapest "real" airline £800.

    Shitty website, though. Lucky if you can complete a booking.
    PS the website is indeed shite but don’t worry about online checkin. They know it’s bad and you can check in fine at Heathrow. Expect queues in economy however
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.

    Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
    Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
    Let's see, shall we. I think people are overstating the danger and understating the benefits. That's just my opinion but obviously I weight it higher than anybody else's.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
    I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in

    Fucking madness and they deserve to die
    It might have been better to stick with Boris, for all the fact he'd have gone down to a similar defeat, for that accountability and catharsis.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,095
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that Biz Class on “China Eastern Airlines” is surprisingly nice

    I made a punt and it came good. So far

    Second best Chinese airline after Air China. I'm on China Eastern tomorrow. London to Taipei £452 return. Cheapest "real" airline £800.

    Shitty website, though. Lucky if you can complete a booking.
    Really cracking menu



    I’ve got a theory. This biz class seat was not THAT much expensive than Premium Economy on Thai, BA etc. The hitch is a stopover in Shanghai. However there are many worse cities in the world to stopover on the way back and spend a few days. Shanghai! I love Shanghai

    So why so cheap? I reckon Chinese airlines are trying to copy the gulf airlines and EVA from years back. Come in with really cheap and seductive offerings. Wipe out some of the competition. Then slowly raise the prices once people are hooked and they have the customers

    Its working with me, so far
    I reckon their English website is shit, plus people are scared of Chinese airlines. I think they could significantly improve their revenue if their website appeared more western and mainstream. The delta between their prices and others is just too large - even with the 6 hour layover.

    If you're in the Shanghai international layover area, try the fancy looking yellow crab noodle place.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,999

    Fishing said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    I just had a flashback to when I was thirteen and had a particularly obnoxious acne-ridden classmate who would say the most outrageous things just to get attention. Last time I saw him was at Speaker's Corner when we were nineteen and he was ranting about atheism. The thing was, if you ignored him and pretended he hadn't spoken, he shut up eventually.

    Never dreamed the President of the United States would (unknowingly I assume) imitate one of my classmates so well. Too bad we can't really ignore him and shut him up.

    Four years of him and four years of Starmer. Can things get any more irritating?
    The idea of unifying the US and Canada makes a lot of sense. Do we want a world where we're so beholden to the status quo that nobody dare change anything of any consequence?
    Err, only if both are under British rule.

    Who's team are you batting for here?
    A United States of English Speaking Peoples does have some appeal. The moderation of Canada, Australia, UK and New Zealand would mitigate the lunacy of MAGA, while the US influence would ensure we are an enterprise economy rather than being stricken with halfwits like Rachel Reeves being in charge of our economy. King Charles would have to carry out some sort of menial task, but not much change there!
    I completely agree.
    And the obvious place to put a capital for such a union would be somewhere close to the Greenwich Meridian I would suggest.
    Except that's where the post-imperial delusions would come in. We'd be nothing more than a province. Even the combined populatiions of the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are about a third of the current U.S. population, and the current centres of power would certainly never accede to Europe or the Pacific.
    London would instantly become one of the top-tier US cities with equal cultural importance to LA and NYC.
    London would be the most populous for sure, just ahead of NYC, and England would be by far the largest State in the Anglospheric Commonwealth, with 92 Electors.

    USA including DC 538
    Puerto Rico 5
    Guam, Northern Marianas, West Virgin Islands, and Eastern Samoa 2
    Canadia 60
    England 92
    Scotland 9
    Wales 5
    Northern Ireland 3
    UK Dependencies & Territories 1
    Ireland 8
    Australia and territories 43
    New Zealand and territories 9
    Quite interesting but the numbers are wrong. The House has limited numbers to 435.
    These figures are for the Electoral College of the Anglospheric Commonwealth.
    Oic
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,713

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    I think that many Conservative politicians get a kick from trolling their supporters.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,427
    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    I'm sure lots of people listened but what was anyone supposed to do about it? Once you've opened Pandoras box its impossible to close it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,171

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    The Government have.
    That is literally what this Bill is about. The fear of the effects of social media and a (very clumsy and authoritarian) way to deal with it.
    Is there a competing better way to do it out there?
    The biggest problem isn't really the content of what people post online.

    It is what they are shown by the algorithm of the day.

    If a system is choosing what it shows you then it is a broadcast and should be regulated to that effect.

    So - if you follow someone on X that's down to you. If X throws posts at you because the algorithm thinks it will get you to stay or because it's owner wants to influence you, then they should have to adhere to all the relevant laws.
    Yes, that is a meaningful difference.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,427
    edited January 6

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
    I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in

    Fucking madness and they deserve to die
    It might have been better to stick with Boris, for all the fact he'd have gone down to a similar defeat, for that accountability and catharsis.
    Well things couldn't have worked out any worse for the Tories if they'd stuck with Boris until 2024.

    Suspect the Canadian Liberals will end up wishing they'd stuck with Trudeau....

    Ditching the leader very rarely works out (Thatch to Major the exception, but then again the Tories would have been better off losing the 92 election)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,482

    Oh dear. Labour have had to delete their furry campaign video because the song they used had some unfortunate lyrics in Portuguese.

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1876309562162041279

    Never mind the song. The video itself was also pretty disturbing. Why use such ugly threatening animals?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I can report that Biz Class on “China Eastern Airlines” is surprisingly nice

    I made a punt and it came good. So far

    Second best Chinese airline after Air China. I'm on China Eastern tomorrow. London to Taipei £452 return. Cheapest "real" airline £800.

    Shitty website, though. Lucky if you can complete a booking.
    Really cracking menu



    I’ve got a theory. This biz class seat was not THAT much expensive than Premium Economy on Thai, BA etc. The hitch is a stopover in Shanghai. However there are many worse cities in the world to stopover on the way back and spend a few days. Shanghai! I love Shanghai

    So why so cheap? I reckon Chinese airlines are trying to copy the gulf airlines and EVA from years back. Come in with really cheap and seductive offerings. Wipe out some of the competition. Then slowly raise the prices once people are hooked and they have the customers

    Its working with me, so far
    I reckon their English website is shit, plus people are scared of Chinese airlines. I think they could significantly improve their revenue if their website appeared more western and mainstream. The delta between their prices and others is just too large - even with the 6 hour layover.

    If you're in the Shanghai international layover area, try the fancy looking yellow crab noodle place.
    Xie Xie. I shall do exactly they

    I agree on the delta. It’s RIDIC. I reckon I’m getting an Eva Air biz class experience for about 60% of the price. Absurd

    And Eva Air biz class is fucking brilliant. Better than any European airline. Maybe the best in the world?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,229
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    I think that many Conservative politicians get a kick from trolling their supporters.
    And, that might have finished them for good.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966
    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    maxh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    I am not outraged by the online safety act and do not consider it a threat to freedom of speech in any meaningful sense.

    Is there literally nobody else on PB who feels the same? Am I truly the special one?

    I know you are the least self aware person on here, but does not your total isolation on this issue not make you wonder that maybe you’ve got it wrong?
    It's not something I enjoy, being alone, but I'm sensing a bit of the old groupthink here.

    Anyway looks like I'm not in complete isolation. Others have now bravely come forward. Although not many tbf.
    I'll stick my head up and say I'm at least unsure about how I feel about the bill and am suspicious of the groupthink that PB often gets into.

    I don't like the negative effects on free speech, but nor do I like the ability of algorithms to rapidly spread misinformation that is poisoning political debate in this country.

    At the moment, I'm not sure which is the worst of the two worlds.

    Hardly a ringing endorsement, I grant you.
    I have read some very detailed legal analyses of the Act from reputable lawyers specialising in this area of law and the general view is that it is a mess because it has not properly taken into account other important legal requirements, its definitions are vague, it gives too much power to unaccountable regulators with little scrutiny and will result in endless court challenges. It will have a chilling effect - especially on smaller forums.

    I'm afraid that, nice as @kinabalu is, in my experience he tends not to bother actually informing himself in detail of what laws or Bills actually say before declaring himself "relaxed" about them. My starting point is that I do not think it is the job of the state to prevent "offence". People have a choice about whether they take offence or not and in a democracy debate should not be left at a level suitable only for babies. Good manners and respectful disagreement are great and desirable but there is a difference between unlawful conduct and very bad manners and these days the distinction between the two is being elided, to our detriment. The law should not seek to impose good manners.
    Oh I see it's like that, is it. Ok, let's do a callout and see if we can find somebody more worthy to disagree with you.
    I am teasing you. Have a look at the link I sent you.

    My view is that this sort of legislation with regulations and codes and guidance is a very bad way to make law because it leads to confusion rather than clarity. I held this view over the Covid rules and said so at the time and I think it's also the case with laws like the Equality Act - see for instance the latest guidance out for consultation from the EHRC. It was also one of the problems with the regulations and guidance on fire resistance in the Building Regulations. See the Moore-Bick Report on the Grenfell Tower fire for how that was one of the causes. Or look at the Assisted Dying Bill .

    It is really poor law-making and risks ending up, precisely because of the confusion, being oppressive - even if this was not the intention.
    ...which all converges on Malmesbury's Process State. I would say you two should get together to write a book but perhaps it would be best done separately, as part of a series, especially as yours is so well advanced.

    Speaking of which, @Malmesbury : how far along is your Blob article?
    I’m having a hard time writing it, due to unaccountable friction every time I try to write anything.

    I’m pretty sure it’s down to microscopic Common Cause Graduates inside my laptop.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    I think that many Conservative politicians get a kick from trolling their supporters.
    Seriously? Is that a serious suggestion?

    If so, fuck them twice over. Never again
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,013
    Cyclefree said:

    Oh dear. Labour have had to delete their furry campaign video because the song they used had some unfortunate lyrics in Portuguese.

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1876309562162041279

    Never mind the song. The video itself was also pretty disturbing. Why use such ugly threatening animals?
    The creepy bunny-tiger-nurse hybrid is very WTF.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    Cyclefree said:

    Oh dear. Labour have had to delete their furry campaign video because the song they used had some unfortunate lyrics in Portuguese.

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1876309562162041279

    Never mind the song. The video itself was also pretty disturbing. Why use such ugly threatening animals?
    The creepy bunny-tiger-nurse hybrid is very WTF.
    Yes. Did they not notice the video is actively disturbing?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,333
    GIN1138 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    I'm sure lots of people listened but what was anyone supposed to do about it? Once you've opened Pandoras box its impossible to close it.
    We can Hope...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,314

    Off to Mexico om Wednesday for 2 weeks - Mexico City, Tecotihuacan, butterfly sanctuary, a couple of smaller towns and three days on the beach to finish up. Any tips? I'm particularly keen to choose some interesting options in Mexico City (we'll be there for 4 nights, though only one day completely free of other things), which seems to have an embarassment of riches (and some risky areas). More interested in lively scenes than museums and galleries.

    Do the sunrise balloon ride over Teotituacan. It's absolutely brilliant.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,368
    ...
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
    I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in

    Fucking madness and they deserve to die
    We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.

    Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,580
    Trump praises ‘fantastic woman’ Giorgia Meloni in surprise Mar-a-Lago visit
    Italian prime minister to discuss vital issues with president-elect before meeting Joe Biden in Rome this month
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/01/05/trump-giorgia-meloni-florida-visit/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    I think that many Conservative politicians get a kick from trolling their supporters.
    My copy went astray a couple of house moves ago, but I think Alan Clark's The Tories makes a similar point, though he frames it as the party leaders ending up despising their supporters. When he wrote it, he only went up to Major, but I'm not sure that much has changed since.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,966

    kinabalu said:

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.

    Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
    Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
    A number of sites have already shuttered.

    And they aren’t who you might think or expect.

    One issue is online reviews. Certain companies have tried to use defamation laws in various countries to get negative reviews taken down. “His review threatens the jobs of my work force - therefore it scares and upsets them”.

    As I pointed out previously, this doesn’t even have to win in court. A high end law firm serves notices - people’s hosting and accounts get cancelled then and there. All you need is a law to hang it on. Happened many times already.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,095
    edited January 6

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
    I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in

    Fucking madness and they deserve to die
    We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.

    Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
    Horseshit.

    Of all foreign nurses and doctors in the UK, 80% of each were non-EU. In fact, the EU numbers were bolstered by Irish nurses (whose right to live and work is unaffected by Brexit, and whose qualifications are valid not because of EU law but since 1922).

    Plus, the influx of EU nurses from 2010 to 2016 was due to Cameron removing nurses from the shortage occupation list to pander to racists - NHS trusts had to look for EU nurses because they were banned from hiring non EU nurses at that salary level. And some of those EU nurses could barely speak English because the ECJ banned us from testing their language skills due to single market regulation.

    One of the nastiest and most pernicious lies told by the Remain campaign.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,038

    Andy_JS said:

    I've been saying for ages that social media and smartphones are ruining civilisation. No-one listened.

    The Government have.
    That is literally what this Bill is about. The fear of the effects of social media and a (very clumsy and authoritarian) way to deal with it.

    I should think the nearest thing to a consensus about the effects and impact of social media (WRT children, libel, coarsening of debate, wicked lies, manipulation, sexual exploitation etc) is that - leaving aside those who make vast amounts of money from it - almost everyone agrees that 'something should be done', that the status quo is defective, that the OSA is not the right instrument, and that - SFAICS - no-one has an intelligent way forward.

    I think the critics need to get better at either saying 'the status quo is fine and this is why' or 'this alternative is both better and possible'.

    The dismal awfulness of the text of the act itself indicates the sublime difficulty the legal draftspeople faced. And there are thousands of pages of codes and sub regulation to come.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,637

    ...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    https://x.com/trump_repost/status/1876326399948235185

    Many people in Canada LOVE being the 51st State. The United States can no longer suffer the massive Trade Deficits and Subsidies that Canada needs to stay afloat. Justin Trudeau knew this, and resigned. If Canada merged with the U.S., there would be no Tariffs, taxes would go way down, and they would be TOTALLY SECURE from the threat of the Russian and Chinese Ships that are constantly surrounding them. Together, what a great Nation it would be!!!

    My son's girlfriend is Canadian. From what she tells us this is not a particularly popular view there.
    I have actually met Canadians who want to fuse with the USA - but not many

    On my recent trip to Vancouver and BC the sense I got was a new and right wing Canadian nationalism, very anti Trudeau and anti Woke, but also proudly Canuck. I saw more maple leaf flags in gardens than you see Stars and Stripes in the USA

    Quite surprising. Obvs reflected in the political polling and the demise of Trudeau
    That gives me the horn.
    Canada has just endured an incredible wave of immigration. You see it everywhere. I believe it might be even bigger than ours, per capita

    Partly as a result the country is swinging sharply to the right. It’s like lefties can’t work out this natural equation, all over the world
    In 2023 the Canadian immigration rate was 1.18%. I believe the equivalent figure for the UK was 1.37%, so the Tories had Trudeau beat.
    Both numbers are, obviously, insane - but theirs is less insane given how empty Canada is, and how they do integration better

    WTF were the Tories on in 2020-23? Fentanyl? 1 MILLION migrants in a single year

    They must never be forgiven for this. I hope Reform and Nigel beat the shit out of them in 2028 and they become some dismal rump party relying on Nigel Farage PM
    The thing with Canada is that a high immigration rate has been declared government policy for quite some time. But the Tory policy was to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands. They failed at that, and then pushed the numbers in the opposite direction without telling anyone that's what they were doing.
    I still - genuinely - do not understand why the Tories did this. Open all the doors. Let them flood in

    Fucking madness and they deserve to die
    We needed Doctors and Nurses after Brexit.

    Lord Johnson of Uxbridge and Henley on Thames explained this to you before the vote. He said after the nasty Eastern Europeans went home we could invite our friends from the Indian Subcontinent to cover the work of the departing Europeans. He told you the truth- for once.
    And that's the point. Boris telling you the truth is as misleading as anyone else telling you a lie.

    But ultimately the trouble is that nobody involved in government in the last decade or so could make the economy.xls spreadsheet work without adding lots of migrant workers and foreign students.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145

    kinabalu said:

    Presumably the OSB means that the online debate of trans will be shut down everywhere? Whatever the stance on trans, someone, somewhere will claim it’s harmful.

    Is that what people really want?

    I’m reminded on the Happiness Patrol (if you know, you know).

    There'd need to be more than that. You need serious harm and intent. But let's see how it pans out in practice.

    Although measurement isn't straightforward. How will we know how much less shit is getting posted as a consequence of the act?
    Others have suggested that serious harm need not have occurred, only that such harm could occur. We already have debate on PB being shut down out of fear of possible consequences of the act.
    A number of sites have already shuttered.

    And they aren’t who you might think or expect.

    One issue is online reviews. Certain companies have tried to use defamation laws in various countries to get negative reviews taken down. “His review threatens the jobs of my work force - therefore it scares and upsets them”.

    As I pointed out previously, this doesn’t even have to win in court. A high end law firm serves notices - people’s hosting and accounts get cancelled then and there. All you need is a law to hang it on. Happened many times already.
    And @kinabalu sits there, enthroned in his tiny Palace of Stupid, saying this is a good thing
  • LeonLeon Posts: 57,145
    OTOH aaaah travel. Air flights. Fizzy wine. New places. Weird soups. Hot tiny towels. Tropical evenings beckoning. Tee shirts at midnight. Beers under palm trees. Mysterious new towns. Roads to WTF

    I think leaving Britain in early January for somewhere hot and sunny is possibly the greatest sensation on earth. Rivalled only by sex on MDMA
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