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Is Trump seeking to enter Gödel’s loophole? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Pulpstar said:

    Six members (Andrew Bailey, Sarah Breeden, Megan Greene, Clare Lombardelli, Catherine L Mann and Huw Pill) voted in favour of the proposition.

    Three members (Swati Dhingra, Dave Ramsden and Alan Taylor)

    Alan Taylor !

    New dove amongst the external members to replace hawk Haskil.

    Reeves clearly trying to move the needle toward lower rates with his appointment.

    Further proof that she’s a terrible Chancellor.
    Worse than that she is a very weak individual. Anyone who is so insecure that they need to grandiose their job title and claim it was was "Economist" when it was in fact "Customer Complaints Manager" demonstrates dishonesty (even though some may say it is mild) that should be a disbarment to being CoE as much as her apparent ineptitude.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    20 years in prison for her ex-husband.

    He is also guilty of taking indecent images of his daughter and two daughters in law and drugging and raping another man's 63 year old wife.

    No words available to express my utter disgust at what these men did.
    If it wasn’t for his age one might say that sentence was unduly lenient.

    He’ll spend the rest of his days behind bars, contemplating what on Earth drove him towards some of the most hideous and heinous crimes imaginable.

    Well done to the prosecutors and the jury, who have had to look at videos of the offences taking place.
    Hope he does spend rest of his life in jail.

    But - do French operate the kind of thing we do and start offering parole after half a sentence etc etc?
    Less than half in the case of former French RU Captain Marc Cecillon who shot his wife dead at a party in front of 60 people. Got 14 years for murder, out in just less than 5.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877

    MattW said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    How does Rachel Reeves do it?

    To me that's the same category of argument as Reform UK suggesting that "Two Tier Kier" failed to prosecute the Manchester Airport Attackers.

    It's ignoring that that is not where the power is exercised.
    It’s a joke, Matt.
    Fair enough :smile: ; it's only 1pm and I am still asleep in parts.

    I've been subjected to too much "Two Tier Kier".
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Six members (Andrew Bailey, Sarah Breeden, Megan Greene, Clare Lombardelli, Catherine L Mann and Huw Pill) voted in favour of the proposition.

    Three members (Swati Dhingra, Dave Ramsden and Alan Taylor)

    Alan Taylor !

    New dove amongst the external members to replace hawk Haskil.

    Reeves clearly trying to move the needle toward lower rates with his appointment.

    Well they’re not cutting rates while inflation is rising, even if there is a new dove on the committee.
    There’ll be a lot of pressure to cut if the economic slowdown is sustained, but then we’ve got the stagflation risk. Those economic figures for Q4 2024 are going to be interesting.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited December 19
    The Daily T podcast, with Camilla Tominey and the other one questioning the effect on UK politics of Elon Musk shovelling cash into Reform.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uanbdahq4kQ

    (Aside: one thing that interests me is how few listeners these Telegraph podcasts manage. Daily T afaics normally runs at 5-10k.

    Even Ukraine the Latest is only around 20k-40k normally, despite being really excellent.)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521

    Interesting thread header though I think it ends unnecessarily complicated as to what the loophole could be.

    The major problem with the US constitution as it is in many systems is Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    There is a naive assumption amongst many that a powerful judiciary is a defence against totalitarianism, but corrupted a powerful judiciary acting at the authoritarians whims is it's most powerful tool.

    See eg Iran where those critical of the regime can be barred from even running for election.

    If the Supreme Court is corrupted, and there's a reasonable argument it already at least partially is and has been for a long time with the partisan nature, then "justice" or "the constitution" is no longer in charge.

    If SCOTUS can rule however it pleases because, reasons, then not only could a wannabe dictator get what they want through the Court but their critics are potentially handicapped from fighting them by the Courts too.

    It’s an argument that has been made since Ancient Rome. The Roman Republic gave power, specifically, to a rich oligarchy. And carefully excluded the bulk of citizens - the Head Count - from any power. That was The Law and The Constitution.

    In the end came the emperors, with the fig leaf of pretending to preserve the constitution

    I told my American relatives, years ago, that if you make the Supreme Court the ultimate legislative chamber, then it was only time until it was bought and sold, like the rest. Bring lawyers (mostly) they didn't listen.

    An interesting point was made by a French friend, commenting on the case of the Imam who got sent back to Morocco, against an ECHR….

    Her argument was that by acting illegally, the French state was preserving the wider
    system of law. That if such actions were blocked by unamendable laws of rights, that the people would turn against the law as a whole. A interesting philosophical idea - break the law to save the law.
    Break the law to save the law… I preferred Macaulay’s version: reform that you may preserve. It’s the same concept
    Law can become an instrument of tyranny, most notably under a dictatorship; but also, when the "rights" of anti-social people are prioritised over and above those of the public in general.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    .

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Wow, first rate header, congratulations David. Trump is a very dangerous man and we are heading into uncharted territory.

    I agree, really interesting and carefully-argued piece. It'd be welcome if David contributed leading articles more often - I'm sure the regular contributors would welcome it.

    But I think the focus should perhaps be on Trump's VP, Vance. Trump is getting on and it's doubtful whether in 4 years he'd really want to go on. Vance is 40, and hard to pin down - he varies between quite conventional conservative and wild-eyed lunatic (see e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn07dv4mrg2o ). It's not difficult to imagine his developing under Trump to seeking absolute power.
    Biden did, and Biden is no more incoherent aged 82 than Trump is now. Moreover, Biden doesn't have hundreds of criminal charges lined up against him the instant he leaves office.
    Agreed.

    And on Vance, while deputies do get ideas of power, I don't think he is there to take over the shop when Trump does finally retire; he's there to do what he's told.

    No doubt he's fine with that. His career had probably already peaked had he not taken the post and in return for absolute obedience over the next four years, he gets to play the Actuary's Gamble, on an obese 78-year-old who has a bad diet in an incredibly demanding and stressful post. I've seen worse bets.

    That said, he might also be up for a switcheroo in 2028 using the 12th/22nd Amendment loophole, again in return for some other post after resignation (or even to be reappointed VP).

    But when the Don does retire properly, I'd expect his successor to either be someone from inside his own family - though the pickings there are quite thin and I expect he knows this; he's tried most of them out - or an ultra-wealthy colleague from within his movement.
    Vance is (to what extent isn’t quite clear) the creature of the ultra wealthy, so they don’t necessarily need to bother with the office itself.
    And the outcome of the next election, assuming there is one, is hardly a foregone conclusion, too.
    Vance has a fraction of the personal pull of Trump. Which is part of the reason Trump is using him.

    MAGA only works when a big minority of the population backs The Leader.
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    20 years in prison for her ex-husband.

    He is also guilty of taking indecent images of his daughter and two daughters in law and drugging and raping another man's 63 year old wife.

    No words available to express my utter disgust at what these men did.
    If it wasn’t for his age one might say that sentence was unduly lenient.

    He’ll spend the rest of his days behind bars, contemplating what on Earth drove him towards some of the most hideous and heinous crimes imaginable.

    Well done to the prosecutors and the jury, who have had to look at videos of the offences taking place.
    It's the maximum sentence available under the law. If a longer one were possible then he'd have a longer sentence I think.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    I'd be interested to know: in which year did you last go on holiday without any communication devices?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,895
    edited December 19
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    I'm not arguing that every accused rapist is guilty, and that we should enforce summary judgement on all accused, tempting though you have found such a solution in other circumstances, but we either have a problem with very large scale false accusations of rape, or very low rates of conviction for rape, to the extent of near impunity for rapists.

    Without making any comment on the details of your case, which would be impossible while preserving your pseudonymity, my judgement is that we tend more towards the latter situation.

    The substance of my comment was that the fault for this does not so much lie in the criminal justice system, as most campaigners would have it, who argue for an end to jury trials and other changes to legal procedure, but in society itself. A democratic society cannot enforce the law on rape unless society believes in the law on rape, and there are too many people in society who do not.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
    I was clearly injecting a dark joke. I’ve been doing my taxes, nursing a cold AND furiously working on a flint this last week, so haven’t had much time to PB. But when I do peek in here it feels rather flat and worthy

    However, to be serious, yeah it’s not fun. And getting the law right is hard. eg I’m really not sure “stealthing” - removing a condom DURING sex - should count as “rape”. It should be some kind of offence, but it’s simply not “rape”. There was consent
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    He's been doing that for some time.
    The difference is that the GOP Congress is now taking more notice.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    edited December 19
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
  • MaxPB said:

    I have to say that I can't get all that exercised about Trump doing away with jus solis, we did it over 40 years ago and it made sense then as it does now. It's just going to be difficult to get 60 senators to say yes to it and if he does it by EO then the next president can just undo it.

    Jus solis is an antiquated idea that never took into account the ease at which people can travel for citizenship tourism when the idea was thought up.

    The USA constitution is full of things that made sense when they were written, but modern technology makes obsolete.
    The 2nd amendment was written when guns could fire one round every thirty seconds, not 30 rounds a second.
    And the inordinate time it takes to ratify election results was based on the speed of a stagecoach.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    I'm not arguing that every accused rapist is guilty, and that we should enforce summary judgement on all accused, tempting though you have found such a solution in other circumstances, but we either have a problem with very large scale false accusations of rape, or very low rates of conviction for rape, to the extent of near impunity for rapists.

    Without making any comment on the details of your case, which would be impossible while preserving your pseudonymity, my judgement is that we tend more towards the latter situation.

    The substance of my comment was that the fault for this does not so much lie in the criminal justice system, as most campaigners would have it, who argue for an end to jury trials and other changes to legal procedure, but in society itself. A democratic society cannot enforce the law on rape unless society believes in the law on rape, and there are too many people in society who do not.
    And my experience says you are talking bollocks. We have various problems with rape law/policing in this country. What we don’t have is a problem in the courtroom. Once you get as far as a crown court and a trial, AIUI the majority of cases end in conviction

    That was the situation when I last checked, a few years back
  • Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    Yes, that’s right
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 19
    It's not Musk's fault they tried to shove a 1,500 page spending bill probably written by lobbyists with all sorts of pork and special interest gladhanding down the throats of congress right before the christmas

    If they really wanted to, two bills could have and should have been presented:

    "Gov't spending will continue as is" to carry on the functions of the remainder of Biden's Gov't and a seperate disaster relief bill. Quite right congress chucked it out.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    If a guy “stealthing” is a rapist - because he stealthily removed a condom during sex, then what about a woman who lyingly says “I’m on the pill” but isn’t, and gets pregnant - changing the man’s life? Surely that is a crime of equal gravity?

    A good friend had exactly this happen to him
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,089
    edited December 19
    The people can make their feelings known at the ballot box.

    In 2029.

    You lost, get over it - isn’t that how this works?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Either Trump will be very successful or he’ll kill Trumpism dead.

    I hope for the US’s sake it’s the former but history tells me it will be the latter.

    What do you think happened during the first Trump Presidency?
    It was a disaster.

    But Trump can’t run again so any continuity of Trump really is based on how this term goes.
    Which of Trump’s policies were disastrous in the first term?
    He said we should inject bleach into ourselves to kill Covid.
    No, he didn't. He asked if something like that was possible. He is not a scientist.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    edited December 19
    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,358
    Bizarre that Tulip Siddiq was appointed responsible for corruption... some obvious red flags..
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    rkrkrk said:

    Bizarre that Tulip Siddiq was appointed responsible for corruption... some obvious red flags..
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    Clearly set a thief to catch a thief?*

    *I have no idea if she is guilty of the suggested charges.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220

    rkrkrk said:

    Bizarre that Tulip Siddiq was appointed responsible for corruption... some obvious red flags..
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    Clearly set a thief to catch a thief?*

    *I have no idea if she is guilty of the suggested charges.
    Can you imagine if this was a Tory? All the "she didn't meet Putin in an official capacity" stuff, as though that makes any difference. Bin her off.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 19
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    The people can make their feelings known at the ballot box.

    In 2029.

    You lost, get over it - isn’t that how this works?

    Yes and know. It doesn't stop the losers bleating on endlessly about second votes etc. And nor should it. Free society and all. And if labour supporters don't like people criticising the government after 14 years of them criticising the government, well they should take a look at themselves.

    Lots of the issues facing the country are historic, whether the fault of brexit, the war in the Ukraine, the Tories mismanagement. But its also true the Starmer's government so far has made blunders and has shown a remarkable ability to forget everything it said as an opposition. I don't think its unfair to point that out.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834
    MattW said:

    That's an excellent, thought-provoking piece.

    I think one thing not mentioned explicitly by David is that a Constitutional Convention, which has not been done since 1787, can be called nationally. And that aiui once that has been called around one question (eg abortion) that Convention can then take a broader remit. So at the writing stage, fewer checks and balances operate. Ratification is still required by 3/4 of states.

    I have seen reports on a long-term (ie decades) strategy amongst anti-abortion activists, including for example the Roman Catholic Right and the Federalist Society (a privately influential association of legal figures who drive constitutional 'originalism'), which in current politics is engaged alongside Trump, to use such a process to exploit control at state level. Control of the Supreme Court is one milestone on the route; if anyone is interested I may be able to find a reference.

    I think the Supreme Court changes are a bit of a dead letter - that has already been bought and largely corrupted imo, for example by the many millions of donations in kind accepted and not declared by Clarence Thomas. I can see Trump himself enlarging it, but that would be a way of institutionalising his poisonous legacy for a generation.

    Six out of nine SCOUTS justices are Roman Catholic, compared to one in five of the population.

    A constitutional convention has to be called by two-thirds of state legislatures. I don't think that's a viable means to embedding a dictatorship - or not in the first instance anyway - which is what was relevant to my article. It *might* be a means to some kind of Social 'Rights' agenda. But overall, I think the provision is something of a dead letter. On an ordinary initiative, I can't see a time when a proposal would generate from the bottom up like that but not have the support in Congress to go through that much easier path first, which is why it's never been used in 235 years so far.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,561
    MattW said:

    The Daily T podcast, with Camilla Tominey and the other one questioning the effect on UK politics of Elon Musk shovelling cash into Reform.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uanbdahq4kQ

    (Aside: one thing that interests me is how few listeners these Telegraph podcasts manage. Daily T afaics normally runs at 5-10k.

    Even Ukraine the Latest is only around 20k-40k normally, despite being really excellent.)

    The problem about podcasts for me is the leisurely real time needed. I can skim a whole copy of a broadsheet in a few minutes, singling out what interests me. Listening for an hour or so as the broadcaster leisurely explans what interests him seems actually old-fashioned by comparison.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,554
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
    I was clearly injecting a dark joke. I’ve been doing my taxes, nursing a cold AND furiously working on a flint this last week, so haven’t had much time to PB. But when I do peek in here it feels rather flat and worthy


    However, to be serious, yeah it’s not fun. And getting the law right is hard. eg I’m really not sure “stealthing” - removing a condom DURING sex - should count as “rape”. It should be some kind of offence, but it’s simply not “rape”. There was consent
    Consent for one thing (protected sex) does not imply consent for something else (unprotected sex)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    MattW said:

    The Daily T podcast, with Camilla Tominey and the other one questioning the effect on UK politics of Elon Musk shovelling cash into Reform.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uanbdahq4kQ

    (Aside: one thing that interests me is how few listeners these Telegraph podcasts manage. Daily T afaics normally runs at 5-10k.

    Even Ukraine the Latest is only around 20k-40k normally, despite being really excellent.)

    The problem about podcasts for me is the leisurely real time needed. I can skim a whole copy of a broadsheet in a few minutes, singling out what interests me. Listening for an hour or so as the broadcaster leisurely explans what interests him seems actually old-fashioned by comparison.
    Top tip: you can change the speed of the audio. For most podcasts I listen at 1.2x speed. For the really slow ones, 1.5x or 1.8x
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    The budget was completely amateur hour, reminded me of Kwarteng's. Just not prepped up properly - the farm stuff could have been done differently to raise similar revenue (Dan Neidle) and not clobber relatively modest farms. I'd hope there'd be behavioural/revenue modelling done on various proposals before they're chucked in the mix but I don't think there is.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,089
    edited December 19

    The people can make their feelings known at the ballot box.

    In 2029.

    You lost, get over it - isn’t that how this works?

    Yes and know. It doesn't stop the losers bleating on endlessly about second votes etc. And nor should it. Free society and all. And if labour supporters don't like people criticising the government after 14 years of them criticising the government, well they should take a look at themselves.

    Lots of the issues facing the country are historic, whether the fault of brexit, the war in the Ukraine, the Tories mismanagement. But its also true the Starmer's government so far has made blunders and has shown a remarkable ability to forget everything it said as an opposition. I don't think its unfair to point that out.
    It isn’t. But so far all the people here telling us Starmer is a dud didn’t vote for him anyway or thought Johnson would be PM for a decade.

    Do I think Starmer has had a poor start, yes. Is he finished. No.

    It’s tiring to read people saying this government are finished. Like it not, they have a mandate until 2029. If the opposition don’t actually want to change, he will win again in 2029. So far “not Labour” just makes people switch off. As seen by Badenoch’s appalling ratings.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Personally think the whole thing is unbelievably tricky. Its almost always two people who know each other and often are in a relationship, or have been. Very often drink has been taken by one or both parties. Gaining consent (and proving it) are great in theory but human relationships don't work like that. Heat of the moment etc. And I fear that sometimes people regret things that happened the night before and sometimes this can turn into rape allegations.

    And how do you try a case where it boils down to he said/she said?
  • Either Trump will be very successful or he’ll kill Trumpism dead.

    I hope for the US’s sake it’s the former but history tells me it will be the latter.

    What do you think happened during the first Trump Presidency?
    It was a disaster.

    But Trump can’t run again so any continuity of Trump really is based on how this term goes.
    Which of Trump’s policies were disastrous in the first term?
    He said we should inject bleach into ourselves to kill Covid.
    No, he didn't. He asked if something like that was possible. He is not a scientist.
    Let me ask you a question, would you ever wonder if injecting bleach would kill Covid or do you just have some common sense?

    Let me ask you another question, if somebody else had said that on TV, would you have given them a pass?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
    I was clearly injecting a dark joke. I’ve been doing my taxes, nursing a cold AND furiously working on a flint this last week, so haven’t had much time to PB. But when I do peek in here it feels rather flat and worthy


    However, to be serious, yeah it’s not fun. And getting the law right is hard. eg I’m really not sure “stealthing” - removing a condom DURING sex - should count as “rape”. It should be some kind of offence, but it’s simply not “rape”. There was consent
    Consent for one thing (protected sex) does not imply consent for something else (unprotected sex)
    See Leons post above about the pill.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
    I was clearly injecting a dark joke. I’ve been doing my taxes, nursing a cold AND furiously working on a flint this last week, so haven’t had much time to PB. But when I do peek in here it feels rather flat and worthy


    However, to be serious, yeah it’s not fun. And getting the law right is hard. eg I’m really not sure “stealthing” - removing a condom DURING sex - should count as “rape”. It should be some kind of offence, but it’s simply not “rape”. There was consent
    Consent for one thing (protected sex) does not imply consent for something else (unprotected sex)
    It’s consent to penetration. End of

    As I say, this SHOULD be an offence. It’s plainly bad and wrong, but it’s not rape

    And see my other point, we should have equal offences for when it happens the other way round. “I’m on the pill, honest”

    This happened to a very good friend of mine, he became a father without his consent, and it has changed his life in ways he really didn’t want
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know: in which year did you last go on holiday without any communication devices?

    2022.

    A week in the Maldives with my wife on a belated honeymoon.

    My father and my boss’ boss had the phone number of the resort to be used in emergencies only. All devices switched off network connections between getting on the plane at the start and getting off the plane at the end.

    I read four books during the week.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    The people can make their feelings known at the ballot box.

    In 2029.

    You lost, get over it - isn’t that how this works?

    Yes and know. It doesn't stop the losers bleating on endlessly about second votes etc. And nor should it. Free society and all. And if labour supporters don't like people criticising the government after 14 years of them criticising the government, well they should take a look at themselves.

    Lots of the issues facing the country are historic, whether the fault of brexit, the war in the Ukraine, the Tories mismanagement. But its also true the Starmer's government so far has made blunders and has shown a remarkable ability to forget everything it said as an opposition. I don't think its unfair to point that out.
    It isn’t. But so far all the people here telling us Starmer is a dud didn’t vote for him anyway or thought Johnson would be PM for a decade.

    Do I think Starmer has had a poor start, yes. Is he finished. No.

    It’s tiring to read people saying this government are finished. Like it not, they have a mandate until 2029. If the opposition don’t actually want to change, he will win again in 2029. So far “not Labour” just makes people switch off. As seen by Badenoch’s appalling ratings.
    Don't let them get to you. PB is a great place but their will always be posts and posters that you won't agree with (and most if you met for a beer you would get on with). Ignoring stuff is one of life's great lessons. When people are young they often obsess about what others think of them. This tends to get less as they age and potentially get a more wise.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    edited December 19

    Either Trump will be very successful or he’ll kill Trumpism dead.

    I hope for the US’s sake it’s the former but history tells me it will be the latter.

    What do you think happened during the first Trump Presidency?
    It was a disaster.

    But Trump can’t run again so any continuity of Trump really is based on how this term goes.
    Which of Trump’s policies were disastrous in the first term?
    He said we should inject bleach into ourselves to kill Covid.
    No, he didn't. He asked if something like that was possible. He is not a scientist.
    Let me ask you a question, would you ever wonder if injecting bleach would kill Covid or do you just have some common sense?

    Let me ask you another question, if somebody else had said that on TV, would you have given them a pass?
    Of course I wouldn't wonder that specific question, but then I am officially a scientist (I have the library card to prove it). Non-scientists sometimes ask what seem like really stupid questions and sometimes they can the best questions as they provoke thought. I don't think that was what Trump was doing. But let me ask you this - how do many chemotherapy drugs work? Many are very cytotoxic and kill cells. You hope that they kill the cancer cells before you kill the patient (and in general that can work well). But ultimately to treat the patient you are injecting a poison. Thats not so far removed from injecting bleach.

    I personally regard Trump as an evil, malignant, and rather stupid person. I don't give him a 'pass'. But its fair to criticise correctly - he didn't tell people to inject bleach he asked a rather naive and stupid question at a press conference.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    rkrkrk said:

    Bizarre that Tulip Siddiq was appointed responsible for corruption... some obvious red flags..
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3zqen209go

    Clearly set a thief to catch a thief?*

    *I have no idea if she is guilty of the suggested charges.
    Repost:

    On the upside, we have the chair for the enquiry into COVID contracts all sorted out.

    Think Roosevelt hiring Joe Kennedy to clean up Wall Street. Or Charles II hiring Henry Morgan to stop piracy.

    “What’s your plan?”
    “Arrest everyone in my address book”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know: in which year did you last go on holiday without any communication devices?

    2022.

    A week in the Maldives with my wife on a belated honeymoon.

    My father and my boss’ boss had the phone number of the resort to be used in emergencies only. All devices switched off network connections between getting on the plane at the start and getting off the plane at the end.

    I read four books during the week.
    I've taken to leaving my phone at home when going out socially. When one person doesn't get their phone out at internals, everyone else seems to feel obliged to keep theirs in their pocket.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Pulpstar said:

    It's not Musk's fault they tried to shove a 1,500 page spending bill probably written by lobbyists with all sorts of pork and special interest gladhanding down the throats of congress right before the christmas

    If they really wanted to, two bills could have and should have been presented:

    "Gov't spending will continue as is" to carry on the functions of the remainder of Biden's Gov't and a seperate disaster relief bill. Quite right congress chucked it out.
    Vivek has already written a one-page Continuation Bill, that does nothing except replace the date on the previous version passed only three months ago.

    https://x.com/vivekgramaswamy/status/1869479465803513874
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know: in which year did you last go on holiday without any communication devices?

    2022.

    A week in the Maldives with my wife on a belated honeymoon.

    My father and my boss’ boss had the phone number of the resort to be used in emergencies only. All devices switched off network connections between getting on the plane at the start and getting off the plane at the end.

    I read four books during the week.
    I've taken to leaving my phone at home when going out socially. When one person doesn't get their phone out at internals, everyone else seems to feel obliged to keep theirs in their pocket.
    Its a weird thing isn't it. Quite a few years ago a friend warned me about this phenomenon. We were heading to a beer festival for beer and a chat and he said that the people joining us would all reach for their phones if a silence of more than 5 seconds occurred. I pooh-poohed this but he was right. Its not the default setting for humans with internet phones. The old world has gone.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,420
    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Aren't maliciously false claims already covered by perjury laws?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    I'd be interested to know: in which year did you last go on holiday without any communication devices?

    2022.

    A week in the Maldives with my wife on a belated honeymoon.

    My father and my boss’ boss had the phone number of the resort to be used in emergencies only. All devices switched off network connections between getting on the plane at the start and getting off the plane at the end.

    I read four books during the week.
    I've taken to leaving my phone at home when going out socially. When one person doesn't get their phone out at internals, everyone else seems to feel obliged to keep theirs in their pocket.
    I’d go along with that on nights out with the missus, but my current job kinda precludes that. (Small team, critical business).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Aren't maliciously false claims already covered by perjury laws?
    Yes, but lots of newly introduced laws have others laws that could have been used. Its more about framing the position than an actual need for a law because a gap exists.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    edited December 19

    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Aren't maliciously false claims already covered by perjury laws?
    Yes, but lots of newly introduced laws have others laws that could have been used. Its more about framing the position than an actual need for a law because a gap exists.
    “Wasting police time” was a catch-all offence for many decades, with serious sentences available should the judge wish to use them. Contempt of court still carries a potential life sentence. There’s little need for specific further offences, except to make the politicans look good in the papers as they pass the legislation.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    edited December 19

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Six members (Andrew Bailey, Sarah Breeden, Megan Greene, Clare Lombardelli, Catherine L Mann and Huw Pill) voted in favour of the proposition.

    Three members (Swati Dhingra, Dave Ramsden and Alan Taylor)

    Alan Taylor !

    New dove amongst the external members to replace hawk Haskil.

    Reeves clearly trying to move the needle toward lower rates with his appointment.

    Well they’re not cutting rates while inflation is rising, even if there is a new dove on the committee.
    There’ll be a lot of pressure to cut if the economic slowdown is sustained, but then we’ve got the stagflation risk. Those economic figures for Q4 2024 are going to be interesting.
    Stagflation is a genuine risk next year for the UK economy.

    If the published data starts to support that theory, then a serious policy adjustment needs to happen on either the fiscal or monetary side.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Pulpstar said:

    Everton have new owners, a Donald Trump fan.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4g39jge8gmo

    Prem clubs. Nationality of ultimate owners/groups

    9 USA
    1 USA/Egyptian
    4 UK (Maybe not necessarily for the taxman though... *Cough Bahamas*)
    1 Abu Dhabi
    1 Saudi
    1 Thai
    1 China
    1 Serbia
    1 Greece
    Ugh, that's really not great.
    A similar balance of British/foreign to the players. And increasingly, to the fans. The Premier League's physical presence in England is almost incidental.

    Back in 1992ish, when the Premier League formed, Sunderland, heroically, proposed leaving them to it - don't have promotion/relegation between the rump football league and the Premier League - let them go off and play by themselves if they must but winning the football league would remain the peak of the pyramid. I really wish other clubs had supported them. The big clubs could have gone off and played by themselves and could have gone off and lived in Saudi and Abu Dhabi and so on, watched by an international audience, and England could have been left with an English football league.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It's going to be a very small number of people, noone with a job and/or a mortgage WANTS Reeves or Starmer (Or Truss or anyone else) to particularly fail.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    Me. But the Tories did deserve to lose, and I wouldn’t have voted for them.

    It’s not inconceivable that Labour could get me back to supporting them by 2029, it’s only been 6 months, but I’ve been distinctly unimpressed so far.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think the Tories did not deserve another term in office and voting Labour, based on how they presented themselves as a govt in waiting, was probably the right thing to do. Especially as the candidate parachuted in seemed to really put himself about.

    I just did not expect unforced error after unforced error after unforced error.

    A few good things. The WASPI nettle being grasped, the WFA change and what Rayner seems to want to do with planning. It is not all bad and they have time to turn it around but the issue I care most about is the economy and Reeves has been pretty mediocre on that and, as others have said, the risk of Stagflation is there and not just here but in the US too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 19
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Aren't maliciously false claims already covered by perjury laws?
    Yes, but lots of newly introduced laws have others laws that could have been used. Its more about framing the position than an actual need for a law because a gap exists.
    “Wasting police time” was a catch-all offence for many decades, with serious sentences available should the judge wish to use them. Contempt of court still carries a potential life sentence. There’s little need for specific further offences, except to make the politicans look good in the papers as they pass the legislation.
    Perhaps more to the point, they reinforce the official view that there IS a problem in specific areas. So nobody can claim they weren't warned. That goes for police and judiciary as much as for the public.

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    Me. But the Tories did deserve to lose, and I wouldn’t have voted for them.

    It’s not inconceivable that Labour could get me back to supporting them by 2029, it’s only been 6 months, but I’ve been distinctly unimpressed so far.
    Exactly where I am and I am open to voting Labour anyway in 2029 if my MP carries on as he has started because I have been quite impressed with his constituency work so far.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 19
    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think the Tories did not deserve another term in office and voting Labour, based on how they presented themselves as a govt in waiting, was probably the right thing to do. Especially as the candidate parachuted in seemed to really put himself about.

    I just did not expect unforced error after unforced error after unforced error.

    A few good things. The WASPI nettle being grasped, the WFA change and what Rayner seems to want to do with planning. It is not all bad and they have time to turn it around but the issue I care most about is the economy and Reeves has been pretty mediocre on that and, as others have said, the risk of Stagflation is there and not just here but in the US too.
    I'll add Taylor's appointment by Reeves to the list after his MPC vote today.

    Though my personal situation is about as weak sterling/low rates prefferred as you can get. I have a mortgage, work for an exporter and we're holding a gazillion euros right now.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    Yes, but I really don't think many people are that partisan. Even on here, I'd say partisan types will be in a minority.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    Oh do stop fucking whining. It’s democracy. Governments get viciously attacked. It’s just been so long since the Left was in power, you’re not used to it
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    We've had 14 years of the country's institutions being allowed to fall apart while a tiny % enriched themselves, that was the underlying policy for health, justice system, defence, education, local services and especially in the pandemic. The people who voted Conservative over that period voted for that underlying policy, they are responsible for the country going down the toilet. It's in a worse state than it was in '97 and it will take longer to turn around.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    Yes, but I really don't think many people are that partisan. Even on here, I'd say partisan types will be in a minority.
    I think that's fair comment – you being the classic example of a fair-minded non-partisan Tory IMO. The trouble is that the ultra-partisan doomsayers are the most vocal – so their daily stream of bilge drowns out the more balanced voices.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    That's a bit delicate and self-elevating. I think how I put it is more the truth of the matter.

    Semantics though really. There's two conflicting sentiments at play and it's just a matter of emphasis and order. Eg we can flip your formulation as follows:

    You want Labour to fail which means a bad economy. But if things turn out well there will be some consolation in knowing it's your country that is prospering and your friends and family that are feeling the benefit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Tulip Siddiq is surely toast. If she were in a less sensitive department she might ride this out but Caesar’s wife surely applies here. You can’t have the minister charged with rooting out corruption plausibly accused of large-scale corruption.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It's going to be a very small number of people, noone with a job and/or a mortgage WANTS Reeves or Starmer (Or Truss or anyone else) to particularly fail.
    It is in all of our interests, from Reform to Green, for Reeves to succeed and Starmer. In his first interview after the election Jeremy Hunt made it clear he wished her well and would give her any help on current issues she needed.

    I Am soon to be retired (although 7 1/2 years from state pension age) and have no mortgage but it is certainly in my interest for low inflation and a growing economy as much as anyone elses.

    I think it has been a poor 6 months and they have already had a reset but they just need to crack on and start delivering for the wider economy and the public at large not single issue lobbying groups.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
  • The people can make their feelings known at the ballot box.

    In 2029.

    You lost, get over it - isn’t that how this works?

    Yes and know. It doesn't stop the losers bleating on endlessly about second votes etc. And nor should it. Free society and all. And if labour supporters don't like people criticising the government after 14 years of them criticising the government, well they should take a look at themselves.

    Lots of the issues facing the country are historic, whether the fault of brexit, the war in the Ukraine, the Tories mismanagement. But its also true the Starmer's government so far has made blunders and has shown a remarkable ability to forget everything it said as an opposition. I don't think its unfair to point that out.
    It isn’t. But so far all the people here telling us Starmer is a dud didn’t vote for him anyway or thought Johnson would be PM for a decade.

    Do I think Starmer has had a poor start, yes. Is he finished. No.

    It’s tiring to read people saying this government are finished. Like it not, they have a mandate until 2029. If the opposition don’t actually want to change, he will win again in 2029. So far “not Labour” just makes people switch off. As seen by Badenoch’s appalling ratings.
    Don't let them get to you. PB is a great place but their will always be posts and posters that you won't agree with (and most if you met for a beer you would get on with). Ignoring stuff is one of life's great lessons. When people are young they often obsess about what others think of them. This tends to get less as they age and potentially get a more wise.
    I just remember advocating for Labour in 2019 and being told to shut up. Just seems hypocritical.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    Yes, but I really don't think many people are that partisan. Even on here, I'd say partisan types will be in a minority.
    I think that's fair comment – you being the classic example of a fair-minded non-partisan Tory IMO. The trouble is that the ultra-partisan doomsayers are the most vocal – so their daily stream of bilge drowns out the more balanced voices.
    BILGE
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    Oh do stop fucking whining. It’s democracy. Governments get viciously attacked. It’s just been so long since the Left was in power, you’re not used to it
    It is you who is doing the whining. Every day. Monotonously. You spent a week complaining vocally about December sunset times FFS.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Aren't maliciously false claims already covered by perjury laws?
    Yes, but lots of newly introduced laws have others laws that could have been used. Its more about framing the position than an actual need for a law because a gap exists.
    “Wasting police time” was a catch-all offence for many decades, with serious sentences available should the judge wish to use them. Contempt of court still carries a potential life sentence. There’s little need for specific further offences, except to make the politicans look good in the papers as they pass the legislation.
    Perhaps more to the point, they reinforce the official view that there IS a problem in specific areas. So nobody can claim they weren't warned. That goes for police and judiciary as much as for the public.
    Indeed, but such things are much better dealt with by advice to judges and prosecutors, than by the passing of primary legislation. But the legislation is what gets the politicians on TV.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
    I also pay lots of tax. What is your point exactly?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    The people can make their feelings known at the ballot box.

    In 2029.

    You lost, get over it - isn’t that how this works?

    Yes and know. It doesn't stop the losers bleating on endlessly about second votes etc. And nor should it. Free society and all. And if labour supporters don't like people criticising the government after 14 years of them criticising the government, well they should take a look at themselves.

    Lots of the issues facing the country are historic, whether the fault of brexit, the war in the Ukraine, the Tories mismanagement. But its also true the Starmer's government so far has made blunders and has shown a remarkable ability to forget everything it said as an opposition. I don't think its unfair to point that out.
    It isn’t. But so far all the people here telling us Starmer is a dud didn’t vote for him anyway or thought Johnson would be PM for a decade.

    Do I think Starmer has had a poor start, yes. Is he finished. No.

    It’s tiring to read people saying this government are finished. Like it not, they have a mandate until 2029. If the opposition don’t actually want to change, he will win again in 2029. So far “not Labour” just makes people switch off. As seen by Badenoch’s appalling ratings.
    Don't let them get to you. PB is a great place but their will always be posts and posters that you won't agree with (and most if you met for a beer you would get on with). Ignoring stuff is one of life's great lessons. When people are young they often obsess about what others think of them. This tends to get less as they age and potentially get a more wise.
    I just remember advocating for Labour in 2019 and being told to shut up. Just seems hypocritical.
    I think you were told to shut up because you were a weird miserable nutter

    Now - I am genuinely pleased to say - you seem much happier, more balanced, and you make some interesting observations. Bravo (sincerely)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
    You really need to get a good tax accountant, given that you spend so much time abroad.

    If you’re spending fewer than 90 days in the UK in a tax year, you can base yourself anywhere you wish for tax purposes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    MattW said:

    That's an excellent, thought-provoking piece.

    I think one thing not mentioned explicitly by David is that a Constitutional Convention, which has not been done since 1787, can be called nationally. And that aiui once that has been called around one question (eg abortion) that Convention can then take a broader remit. So at the writing stage, fewer checks and balances operate. Ratification is still required by 3/4 of states.

    I have seen reports on a long-term (ie decades) strategy amongst anti-abortion activists, including for example the Roman Catholic Right and the Federalist Society (a privately influential association of legal figures who drive constitutional 'originalism'), which in current politics is engaged alongside Trump, to use such a process to exploit control at state level. Control of the Supreme Court is one milestone on the route; if anyone is interested I may be able to find a reference.

    I think the Supreme Court changes are a bit of a dead letter - that has already been bought and largely corrupted imo, for example by the many millions of donations in kind accepted and not declared by Clarence Thomas. I can see Trump himself enlarging it, but that would be a way of institutionalising his poisonous legacy for a generation.

    Six out of nine SCOUTS justices are Roman Catholic, compared to one in five of the population.

    A constitutional convention has to be called by two-thirds of state legislatures. I don't think that's a viable means to embedding a dictatorship - or not in the first instance anyway - which is what was relevant to my article. It *might* be a means to some kind of Social 'Rights' agenda. But overall, I think the provision is something of a dead letter. On an ordinary initiative, I can't see a time when a proposal would generate from the bottom up like that but not have the support in Congress to go through that much easier path first, which is why it's never been used in 235 years so far.
    The other reason is that it opens up the possibility of any amendment being brought forward.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    Oh do stop fucking whining. It’s democracy. Governments get viciously attacked. It’s just been so long since the Left was in power, you’re not used to it
    It is you who is doing the whining. Every day. Monotonously. You spent a week complaining vocally about December sunset times FFS.
    lol! I haven’t been on the site all week, for reasons given

    Are you ok? Christmas can be a tough time
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
    Surely AI should be able to do your tax returns?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
    I was clearly injecting a dark joke. I’ve been doing my taxes, nursing a cold AND furiously working on a flint this last week, so haven’t had much time to PB. But when I do peek in here it feels rather flat and worthy


    However, to be serious, yeah it’s not fun. And getting the law right is hard. eg I’m really not sure “stealthing” - removing a condom DURING sex - should count as “rape”. It should be some kind of offence, but it’s simply not “rape”. There was consent
    Consent for one thing (protected sex) does not imply consent for something else (unprotected sex)
    It’s consent to penetration. End of

    As I say, this SHOULD be an offence. It’s
    plainly bad and wrong, but it’s not rape

    And see my other point, we should have
    equal offences for when it happens the
    other way round. “I’m on the pill, honest”

    This happened to a very good friend of
    mine, he became a father without his
    consent, and it has changed his life in ways
    he really didn’t want
    There is no “end of”. That makes it a circular argument: I have defined “rape” as A. This is A. Therefore A is rape.

    The concept of “informed consent” is well established in law and ethics. If you lie about your intention then the counter party does not give legal consent. That makes it rape. Let's take a mythological example: was Uther guilty of rape because he pretended to be Gorlois? Possibly yes… depending on whether you believe Ygraine recognised him or not. But, today, the answer would almost certainly be yes.

    As for your case that is clearly a wrongful act on her part. Proving it would be difficult, but if you can then he shouldn’t be liable for for child support. The challenge with imprisonment for the mother (which might be reasonable) is the negative impact on the innocent child.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
    I also pay lots of tax. What is your point exactly?
    Only this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcrIGHrnB88
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 19

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
    Surely AI should be able to do your tax returns?
    Well, if I am allowed to talk about it (you brought it up, talking to me) I had a go at this just for fun. I fed my gross earnings etc into ChatGPT and gave it a frankly incomprehensible letter from my accountant, explaining the new self assessment regime

    ChatGPT translated the letter into good plain English, elucidating how the changes would affect ME. It then number crunched all my data and we did some Q&As and it came back with exact sums. “You will be paying £xxxx on January 31” and £xxxx on July 31”

    It was amazing. And all in half an hour. And free, of course

    It’s too late for me to bin off my human accountant this year, but I don’t expect to be using humans next year
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    It was so much more agreeable on here this morning discussing David's excellent header. The Field Marshal hadn't turned up and it was a little early for the other "Reeves is shit" posters. They are catching up now mind. I don't mind the critique, there is some justification, it's just the same one each day normally quoting another Telegraph expose.

    Those crying at the Badenoch thread yesterday were the most vocal "you lost Remoaners, suck it up losers" posters and those in pole position with the onslaught against Starmer's genuinely poor LOTO start.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 19
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    In general, the problem with rape cases is the high rate of attrition, not an unwillingness on the part of juries to convict.

    Re: false allegations, it's important to note that a false allegation is not necessarily a malicious allegation. Lord McAlpine's accuser was quite sincere in his beliefs, even though we know that he was the victim of mistaken identity. Mistaken identity will be common when a person has been the victim of rape, but consumption of drink or drugs makes it hard to identify the perpetrator.
    There has been a movement locally to try and make false claims of rape a specific offence which has so far been resisted by the government.

    I can’t remember the specifics but it span out of a relatively recent trial based on an eventually provable false claim.

    https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/12/19/ministers-rule-out-specific-offence-for-false-claims-of-rape/

    I’m in two minds about it - I think maliciously false claimants should be punished but I wouldn’t want any woman to be scared to go to the police if she believed she had been raped because she would be worried in case someone accused her of a false claims.
    Aren't maliciously false claims already covered by perjury laws?
    Yes, but lots of newly introduced laws have others laws that could have been used. Its more about framing the position than an actual need for a law because a gap exists.
    “Wasting police time” was a catch-all offence for many decades, with serious sentences available should the judge wish to use them. Contempt of court still carries a potential life sentence. There’s little need for specific further offences, except to make the politicans look good in the papers as they pass the legislation.
    Perhaps more to the point, they reinforce the official view that there IS a problem in specific areas. So nobody can claim they weren't warned. That goes for police and judiciary as much as for the public.
    Indeed, but such things are much better dealt with by advice to judges and prosecutors, than by the passing of primary legislation. But the legislation is what gets the politicians on TV.
    I was thinking more of getting things into the public head, and having the pols on TV is a secondary matter to that (especially if it gets publicity for the change in law).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    Oh do stop fucking whining. It’s democracy. Governments get viciously attacked. It’s just been so long since the Left was in power, you’re not used to it
    It is you who is doing the whining. Every day. Monotonously. You spent a week complaining vocally about December sunset times FFS.
    lol! I haven’t been on the site all week, for reasons given

    Are you ok? Christmas can be a tough time
    I'm fine thanks, overworked but it pays well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    Tulip Siddiq is surely toast. If she were in a less sensitive department she might ride this out but Caesar’s wife surely applies here. You can’t have the minister charged with rooting out corruption plausibly accused of large-scale corruption.

    She sent me an email recently about probity in the financial services sector.
    Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

    That's even better than the time Tim Yeo fathered a child of wedlock just after giving a speech on family values.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    They're peaking way too early imo. 4th gear and still in the car park.

    Me, I'm happy enough. I said before the election that having a Labour government at long last would be like walking around all day every day in a well fitting pair of trousers and I don't resile from that. That is exactly what it's like. The constant moanfest on here makes barely a crease.

    What has rather spoilt things (for me) is Trump2. That prospect is so grim that it's hard to focus on how nicely my trousers are hanging.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    The daily group therapy for the PB Tories is getting a bit much though. Not only is it depressing, it's also hypocritical – witness the ludicrous spectacle yesterday of their demanding the moderators stopped writing so-called "Kemi is Crap" threads. This is despite the data showing that she is indeed a dud.

    The very same people lapped up the endless articles about Ed Miliband that were in a similar vein.
    It was so much more agreeable on here this morning discussing David's excellent header. The Field Marshal hadn't turned up and it was a little early for the other "Reeves is shit" posters. They are catching up now mind. I don't mind the critique, there is some justification, it's just the same one each day normally quoting another Telegraph expose.

    Those crying at the Badenoch thread yesterday were the most vocal "you lost Remoaners, suck it up losers" posters and those in pole position with the onslaught against Starmer's genuinely poor LOTO start.
    Yet more whining
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I’m feeling better at voting for Sunak no I’ve seen what a shit show this lot are
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    Yes, but I really don't think many people are that partisan. Even on here, I'd say partisan types will be in a minority.
    I think that's fair comment – you being the classic example of a fair-minded non-partisan Tory IMO. The trouble is that the ultra-partisan doomsayers are the most vocal – so their daily stream of bilge drowns out the more balanced voices.
    Well thank you for calling me fair minded. I'm not sure I'm necessarily a Tory, but it's more often the case that of the big parties the Tories are closer to me than others. But I did check myself before I wrote that - do I really enjoy it when Labour fucks up? Part of me certainly enjoys it when they fuck up politically (like, for example, Lord Alligate), but I don't really enjoy the process of "party I don't like makes decision I think is bad - decision turns out to be bad - party loses credibility as a consequence" - I just find it frustrating.

    But on your second point, I think the problem is that it's the ultra-partisan who get you the most riled. Their posts might not be the most numerous - a quick scan of 100 posts will show that most will be unannoying - but you're getting emotionally triggered by a handful - which makes them feel more numerous than they are. And if you reply to them, you prolong the number of responses.

    This doesn't of course apply to arguments about whether Salford is a city.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited December 19
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    Rates held. Why would Rachel Reeves do this!?!?

    Because she despises borrowers and savers in equal measure.
    To be clear, I am giving you a like because this made me laugh, not because I think this is true. (I get slightly riled by claims that politician x takes action y because he hates section of the electorate z.)
    Taylor's vote (The only Reeves appointment so far) makes it clear she is likely more on the side of borrowers tbh.
    As she's a borrower herself, on behalf of close to bankrupt Britain that is no surprise.
    Growth forecast slashed for Q4 2024 to 0 %, so no growth, down from 0.3% estimated last month.

    Well done Rachel, a winning economic strategy. All that doom and gloom and talking down the economy and the economic situation has really reaped rewards.
    This is a quite catastrophic government. PB is right to bang on about it. The worst government of my entire life, I think
    It's hard to know what Reeves thinks she's doing. Six months ago, I'd assumed that we would have respectable growth for the rest of the year and 2025. The government worked hard to choke it off.
    Rachel from Accounts has no fucking clue what she’s doing. Nor does Sir Sheer Wanker. David fucking Lammy god help us

    They’re all utter mediocrities with limited brains, woke ideas and the mindsets of confused county councillors and deputy head teachers from Newent

    I read in the Spec yesterday that HMG is really worried about the collapsing Chagos deal and dearly want to see it through. Why? Not because it’s any good but because it’s “one of their few concrete achievements”

    That’s it. The measure of their awfulness is that their main “concrete achievement” is
    giving away sovereign British territory, to a geopolitical enemy, and making us pay for it
    I told you not to vote for them…
    We're up to Taz and Leon with buyer's remorse I think from voting Labour at the last GE ?

    Any more ?
    I still think Starmer was the better option at the election and I strongly hope that the economy picks up, the NHS improves and all the other stuff. There was a very definite sense after Brexit that some remainers were actively (a) wanting things sush as the economy to go badly and (b) delighting in it if it did. Not all remainers for sure, but a goodly number.
    The danger is that we see that now amongst die hard Tories - almost wishing failure on the nation.
    That's an uncomfortable aspect of political partisanship. If the other lot are in you want things to go to shit. The better side of you won't but a big part of you will.
    It’s more nuanced than that

    I’m a patriot. More importantly many of my friends and fam are British and work in Britain. I don’t want the country to go down the toilet

    But when it does, there is some consolation in hurling vile and deserved abuse at the morons doing the flushing
    A patriot who endlessly slags of this country on any basis he can think of: including daily, hyperbolic weather reports whenever it happens to raining – or even gloomy – in Camden Town. And who frequently threatens to leave the country permanently.

    Some kind of patriot.
    This is where I pay my not inconsiderable taxes. Tax returns which I am doing right now

    That’s the only patriotism that really counts
    Surely AI should be able to do your tax returns?
    Well, if I am allowed to talk about it (you brought it up, talking to me) I had a go at this just for fun. I fed my gross earnings etc into ChatGPT and gave it a frankly incomprehensible letter from my accountant, explaining the new self assessment regime

    ChatGPT translated the letter into good plain English, elucidating how the changes would affect ME. It then number crunched all my data and we did some Q&As and it came back with exact sums. “You will be paying £xxxx on January 31” and £xxxx on July 31”

    It was amazing. And all in half an hour. And free, of course

    It’s too late for me to bin off my human accountant this year, but I don’t expect to be using humans next year
    Mate, most of us know you’ve not been using humans for years, the sex doll industry thanks you for your custom.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Guilty verdicts so far for those men who raped and drugged Gisele Pelicot.

    The courage of that woman is something else. The men who did this to her are scum.

    There is no word that can adequately describe the depravity of these men nor prison sentence

    The courage of Gisele Pelicot is amazing and if nothing else, the world wide publicity she has achieved hopefully may have an effect and all men should utterly condemn this unspeakable abuse of a woman
    Absolutely. This is not a case where "It's not all men" will wash. That is just attemtping mitigation. This needs to be condemned strongly by everyone.

    What struck me was the rapists were just ordinary people with ordinary lives in the town. This could happen anywhere and behaviour like that normalised becoming accepted.

    Utterly disgusting behaviour.
    This is an extreme case but it does indicate how misogyny is not the rare perversion one would like to think it is. It's commonplace, taking various forms (some subtle some less so) across all cultures and societies.
    Yes, an extreme case, but it shows that this sort of behaviour once normalised and accepted simply grows and expands sucking in all sorts of men from all walks of life and a cross section of ages.

    It just shows, to me, once again for all we like to think of ourselves as civilised we really are only a short step from barbarism.
    I think her lawyer was right when he said that this case does not show that all men are potential rapists, but it does make it very clear indeed that such men are not at all unusual.
    And the other problem that follows from that is that these not unusual people will make up a not inconsiderate fraction of the jurors who are asked to decide on rape trials in a country like Britain.

    The problem of rape is bigger than the criminal justice system, because it's so big that it undermines the criminal justice system.
    I’m sorry but I have to disagree

    Speaking as one of Britain’s Top Rapists (acquitted) I think the criminal justice system works perfectly well as it is
    Being wrongly accused of rape must be absolutely horrific. The fact that wrongful accusations do happen is justification for the bar of evidence needing to be very high indeed.
    I was clearly injecting a dark joke. I’ve been doing my taxes, nursing a cold AND furiously working on a flint this last week, so haven’t had much time to PB. But when I do peek in here it feels rather flat and worthy


    However, to be serious, yeah it’s not fun. And getting the law right is hard. eg I’m really not sure “stealthing” - removing a condom DURING sex - should count as “rape”. It should be some kind of offence, but it’s simply not “rape”. There was consent
    Consent for one thing (protected sex) does not imply consent for something else (unprotected sex)
    It’s consent to penetration. End of

    As I say, this SHOULD be an offence. It’s
    plainly bad and wrong, but it’s not rape

    And see my other point, we should have
    equal offences for when it happens the
    other way round. “I’m on the pill, honest”

    This happened to a very good friend of
    mine, he became a father without his
    consent, and it has changed his life in ways
    he really didn’t want
    There is no “end of”. That makes it a circular argument: I have defined “rape” as A. This is A. Therefore A is rape.

    The concept of “informed consent” is well established in law and ethics. If you lie about your intention then the counter party does not give legal consent. That makes it rape. Let's take a mythological example: was Uther guilty of rape because he pretended to be Gorlois? Possibly yes… depending on whether you believe Ygraine recognised him or not. But, today, the answer would almost certainly be yes.

    As for your case that is clearly a wrongful act on her part. Proving it would be difficult, but if you can then he shouldn’t be liable for for child support. The challenge with imprisonment for the mother (which might be reasonable) is the negative impact on the innocent child.

    Rape by deception is certainly rape.

    I can remember being startled when I read the unabridged version of The Three Musketeers, ten years ago, to learn that D’Artagnan raped Milady by deception (something omitted from the version I had read at school).
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