The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
As a matter of interest, how does the flight of people from Hong Kong affect this? We've loads of lovely people from HK arrive in our village over the last year.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
£100 bet that there won't be a single labour/re-education camp opened by the Trump government from 2025-2029. Put your money where your idiot mouth is.
That's a bet about something I didn't say.
It's perfectly possible for a country to be worse than China without having camps.
How?
China is doing all the shittiest things (and more) that Trump wants to do and does them effectively.
They are objectively worse than anything Trump can manage in 4 years.
The reason we concentrate on Trump, apart from the size of the US and its nearness on policy and society, is the potential *decline* that Trump represents from the current state of affairs.
China has been an effectively run fascism for decades. Whereas we could have been looking at President Harris, with a few coin flips.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
As a matter of interest, how does the flight of people from Hong Kong affect this? We've loads of lovely people from HK arrive in our village over the last year.
I've no idea - most of what I pick up is gossip through my agency contacts. From what I do know, I think it would have happened anyway even if Winnie the Pooh hadn't had his hissy fit over Hong Kong. Whether the damage done to China's economic system has made things worse I honestly couldn't tell you.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
Given the German collapse and the EV issue, I could easily see a joint approach to tariffs being thought about.
A populist, but non loony politician - imagine an American Berlusconi - would have already been on the phone to the EU.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
As a matter of interest, how does the flight of people from Hong Kong affect this? We've loads of lovely people from HK arrive in our village over the last year.
I've no idea - most of what I pick up is gossip through my agency contacts. From what I do know, I think it would have happened anyway even if Winnie the Pooh hadn't had his hissy fit over Hong Kong. Whether the damage done to China's economic system has made things worse I honestly couldn't tell you.
It’s interesting you are talking about remote lessons crashing in China. Aren’t a lot of these for kids looking to study abroad (English and being taught other subjects in English)?
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
Because one of those people is the Prime Minister and the buck stops with him. He's got no plan and selling out to China seems to be the order of the day. You can't pretend that our national policy to China hasn't changed since Labour came in and it's one of selling out because they think it might be slightly economically beneficial now that they've trashed a growing economy.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
“We are an alternative provision free school situated within the City of Nottingham, delivering education to 12-16 year-olds who, for a variety of reasons, have found it difficult to enjoy, engage and succeed in a mainstream school, or are currently without a school place.”
So they are a school providing to secondary school children excluded from other schools. What used to be called a Sin Bin.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
Because one of those people is the Prime Minister and the buck stops with him. He's got no plan and selling out to China seems to be the order of the day. You can't pretend that our national policy to China hasn't changed since Labour came in and it's one of selling out because they think it might be slightly economically beneficial now that they've trashed a growing economy.
Is this actually government policy or is it merely a report of one of many plans or policies drawn up by civil servants in the treasury?
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
Because one of those people is the Prime Minister and the buck stops with him. He's got no plan and selling out to China seems to be the order of the day. You can't pretend that our national policy to China hasn't changed since Labour came in and it's one of selling out because they think it might be slightly economically beneficial now that they've trashed a growing economy.
You know I haven't even commented on the China policy? Stop assuming that every non-Tory is a hivemind. I know you have this idea in your mind that every Labour voter is actually a communist but it's not the truth.
I used to really enjoy your posts but I have frankly grown tired of them. We're done.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
I still don't quite understand what Kemi is aiming for. I can see the appeal in a trad conservative - but then she wanders off about transgender toilets or whatever, which is quite fringe even for the home counties membership. Unless you're chasing Telegraph headlines, in which case you're doomed to election defeat. And she seems much, much brighter than that.
Badly advised by SPAD's? Easily swayed? I've no idea. But it puzzles me given the big massive trad-tory shaped hole in the voting waiting to be hoovered up.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
I fear China might be in a similar situation to Russia in the seventies and eighties - it's entire economy and plans are based on lies. Juniors lie to superiors, who then lie to their superiors, all the way to the top. There is little bad news, because giving bad news can be detrimental not just to your job, but your health.
This is not to say that China has not undergone an economic miracle over the last forty years - it has. But they may have got the easy wins, and their future gains may be much harder to get.
Russia managed to lie to itself for three or four decades before it all came to a head. Because their lies are less egregious, China might last longer.
I think fucked for lots of reasons, but two more than any others: denographics, which will hit them hard any minute now, and lack of freedom, without which I don't think western-style prosperity is possible. I think majodecline within a decade. Russia-1990s style. Other prognoses are available! But I am heavily, heavily bearish on China.
I mostly agree with you, but am hesitant because the house of cards seems to keep getting taller with no signs of collapsing.
Not sure about the freedom point - I want to believe that is true, but I would have made that argument 20 years ago and been proved thoroughly wrong about China. I think the Russian parallels can obscure the differences as much as they illuminate the similarities.
But I mainly bow to others' superior knowledge - I am not an expert. Since I became an adult I have confidently expected the collapse of (a) China and (b) the UK housing market and have been proven wrong many times on both.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
The UKG/Labour approach to WASPI would be rather more convincing if it didn't tell the SNP to take it out of the SG budget. Which is flat out illegal under the Scotland Acts.
'[...] Kendall deflected by saying: “If the honourable lady wants a different approach, then the Scottish, the SNP Government in Scotland can do a different approach using the [devolution] settlement we have provided [...]"
Scottish Labour have never, and will never, accept that their decades long domination of Scottish politics was ended. The Scottish brown envelope manufacturing industry may never recover.
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
160 feet... ludicrous.
Do you think every other European country is "ridiculous"?
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
VAT triangulation within the EU is much harder now.
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
160 feet... ludicrous.
Do you think every other European country is "ridiculous"?
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
Under the UnDictatorship of Malmesbury, phone masts will be considered permitted, by default, unless they exceed 100 kilometers. If they do, a small, postcard sized form will be required.
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
It’s group therapy, has been since 5 July. Poor lambs.
There wasn't nearly as much crying after December 2019. I distinctly remember a load of people saying "suck it up, you lost".
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
One day, when troglodytes in The Regions have managed to lift their heads up to glance at the glowing wonder of London, they too will have contactless payment on buses. Despite the best efforts of London to thwart them down the years.
Until then, we shall occasionally stumble out of our caves, glance south, shield our eyes and grunt.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
Given the German collapse and the EV issue, I could easily see a joint approach to tariffs being thought about.
A populist, but non loony politician - imagine an American Berlusconi - would have already been on the phone to the EU.
Europe has zero interest in what Trump seems to be intending. They want Chinese manufacturing technology (which is sensible); Trump’s policy isn’t in their interest at all.
That need not necessarily mean “cozying up”; rather it means trying to do to China something akin to what they did to western manufacturers over the last three decades.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
VAT triangulation within the EU is much harder now.
We need to abolish VAT and move to an Anglosphere-style sales tax.
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
It’s group therapy, has been since 5 July. Poor lambs.
There wasn't nearly as much crying after December 2019. I distinctly remember a load of people saying "suck it up, you lost".
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
One day, when troglodytes in The Regions have managed to lift their heads up to glance at the glowing wonder of London, they too will have contactless payment on buses. Despite the best efforts of London to thwart them down the years.
Until then, we shall occasionally stumble out of our caves, glance south, shield our eyes and grunt.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
Is Europe an obvious choice?
I'm not sure that the EU is over Brexit yet, and their posture seems unnecessarily antagonistic, founded on the concessions they can wring from Britain, rather than deepening a mutually beneficial relationship in an increasingly hostile world.
I think Britain could do with sorting itself out, rather than seeing help from other countries as a quick fix to avoid having to do so.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
As a matter of interest, how does the flight of people from Hong Kong affect this? We've loads of lovely people from HK arrive in our village over the last year.
I've no idea - most of what I pick up is gossip through my agency contacts. From what I do know, I think it would have happened anyway even if Winnie the Pooh hadn't had his hissy fit over Hong Kong. Whether the damage done to China's economic system has made things worse I honestly couldn't tell you.
It’s interesting you are talking about remote lessons crashing in China. Aren’t a lot of these for kids looking to study abroad (English and being taught other subjects in English)?
Yes, but if they can't afford the costs involved in going to the UK, US, Canada or Australia, there's less point in learning English.
I was hoping a slowdown would lead to more demand for tutoring from English speakers, as the next best thing to going to an Anglophone country, but so far the opposite seems to be happening.
It's lucky I've picked up enough work domestically that I've not been missing the income.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
VAT triangulation within the EU is much harder now.
We need to abolish VAT and move to an Anglosphere-style sales tax.
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
Under the UnDictatorship of Malmesbury, phone masts will be considered permitted, by default, unless they exceed 100 kilometers. If they do, a small, postcard sized form will be required.
Are RKO Pictures-style giant sparks coming out of the top a mandatory visibility feature, or merely permitted?
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
It’s group therapy, has been since 5 July. Poor lambs.
There wasn't nearly as much crying after December 2019. I distinctly remember a load of people saying "suck it up, you lost".
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
The cash ‘debate’ is boring, because there are simply no good arguments for using the stuff. People still use it - for reasons known only to themselves - and that’s fine, nobody is suggesting abolishing it.
But the ludicrous suggestion - which I see on here - that some businesses should be forced by government fiat to accept it is so ridiculous I am losing the will even to argue with them.
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
It’s group therapy, has been since 5 July. Poor lambs.
There wasn't nearly as much crying after December 2019. I distinctly remember a load of people saying "suck it up, you lost".
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
The cash ‘debate’ is boring, because there are simply no good arguments for using the stuff. People still use it - for reasons known only to themselves - and that’s fine, nobody is suggesting abolishing it.
But the ludicrous suggestion - which I see on here - that some businesses should be forced by government fiat to accept it is so ridiculous I am losing the will even to argue with them.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
As a matter of interest, how does the flight of people from Hong Kong affect this? We've loads of lovely people from HK arrive in our village over the last year.
I've no idea - most of what I pick up is gossip through my agency contacts. From what I do know, I think it would have happened anyway even if Winnie the Pooh hadn't had his hissy fit over Hong Kong. Whether the damage done to China's economic system has made things worse I honestly couldn't tell you.
It’s interesting you are talking about remote lessons crashing in China. Aren’t a lot of these for kids looking to study abroad (English and being taught other subjects in English)?
Many people will eagerly humiliate themselves, in return for pennies.
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
It’s group therapy, has been since 5 July. Poor lambs.
There wasn't nearly as much crying after December 2019. I distinctly remember a load of people saying "suck it up, you lost".
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
The cash ‘debate’ is boring, because there are simply no good arguments for using the stuff. People still use it - for reasons known only to themselves - and that’s fine, nobody is suggesting abolishing it.
But the ludicrous suggestion - which I see on here - that some businesses should be forced by government fiat to accept it is so ridiculous I am losing the will even to argue with them.
Aaaaaand he's off.
I was asked a question and gave an answer. Have no more desire to ‘debate’ cash than the merits of quasi-Welsh organ grinders punning from the Marches.
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
It’s group therapy, has been since 5 July. Poor lambs.
There wasn't nearly as much crying after December 2019. I distinctly remember a load of people saying "suck it up, you lost".
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
The cash ‘debate’ is boring, because there are simply no good arguments for using the stuff. People still use it - for reasons known only to themselves - and that’s fine, nobody is suggesting abolishing it.
But the ludicrous suggestion - which I see on here - that some businesses should be forced by government fiat to accept it is so ridiculous I am losing the will even to argue with them.
Aaaaaand he's off.
I was asked a question and gave an answer. Have no more desire to ‘debate’ cash than the merits of quasi-Welsh organ grinders punning from the Marches.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
We're already cosy with Europe. Do you think we're missing out because Brussels isn't writing our AI regulations?
What do you think?
Obviously the answer is no. Even Nick Clegg agrees with that.
If it's 'obvious', why ask the question?
It was a rhetorical question, but seriously, what are we missing out on?
VAT triangulation within the EU is much harder now.
We need to abolish VAT and move to an Anglosphere-style sales tax.
Why?
I'm not really wedded to the idea. It's just a discussion point as it's something we could do with our Brexit freedoms.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Actually....
We put out fly traps occasionally to do species monitoring in a local NNR and to see if any rarities turn up.
The standard method is to use ... apple vinegar.
Maybe it depends what sort of fly you want to catch.
I am very disappointed there's still not been any new guidance on masts published. We really must allow them up to 50m and without planning in urban (and ideally rural) areas. If this government won't do it, then frankly their majority is pointless.
Under the UnDictatorship of Malmesbury, phone masts will be considered permitted, by default, unless they exceed 100 kilometers. If they do, a small, postcard sized form will be required.
Are RKO Pictures-style giant sparks coming out of the top a mandatory visibility feature, or merely permitted?
Mandatory.
I was appalled to discover that the CERN accelerator doesn’t have a giant knife switch.
If Badenoch is the wrong choice and things are looking risky for the Tories wrt to Reform, what or when do the Tories act?
I'd say by the end of next year. Kemi needs to be ahead of Starmer in the best PM stakes and the Tories need to be regularly polling 3-4 points up on Labour or she's going to fall. I think she's made a poor start, she's able to get into a fight in an empty room and say stupid things about stuff that no one cares about. She needs to start making the case for the government delivering more with less input and making the case for voters aged 30-50 so tax cuts, childcare and housing.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
We might see a kind Finlandization of the UK, where Britain supports US foreign policy + ignores a US slide into authoritarianism, in return for favorable treatment.
That sounds like Germany's approach to Putin. All of you are embarrassing yourselves over this at the moment. Trump may be unideal in many ways, Xi is a dictator who operates labour camps and kills people by the thousands for having the temerity for wanting a free society or to follow a religion. Get absolutely fucked.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Actually....
We put out fly traps occasionally to do species monitoring in a local NNR and to see if any rarities turn up.
The standard method is to use ... apple vinegar.
Maybe it depends what sort of fly you want to catch.
This is a genuinely odd conversation.
Do I get exiled to ConHome if I suggest that when it comes to fly killing methods, it would be better if we zipped it?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
As a matter of interest, how does the flight of people from Hong Kong affect this? We've loads of lovely people from HK arrive in our village over the last year.
I've no idea - most of what I pick up is gossip through my agency contacts. From what I do know, I think it would have happened anyway even if Winnie the Pooh hadn't had his hissy fit over Hong Kong. Whether the damage done to China's economic system has made things worse I honestly couldn't tell you.
It’s interesting you are talking about remote lessons crashing in China. Aren’t a lot of these for kids looking to study abroad (English and being taught other subjects in English)?
Many people will eagerly humiliate themselves, in return for pennies.
What I am talking about are very well paid gigs trying to get idiomatic English into Chinese kids who are supposed to study abroad.
The parents are trying to prevent the nonesense where the kids turn up without enough English to study.
Until recently this has been a very profitable gig for teachers and even university students on the private tutoring websites.
This site desperately needs a pointlessly revealing and exceptionally lurid sexual anecdote
But Mr. REDACTED left office for a job in the media so his documented use of REDACTED and REDACTED and questionable sexual antics no longer really matters does it?
A senior medical consultant told me that she watched it with her husband (also doctor). At first they ridiculed it, but got sucked in. She stopped when she asked “Is it Lupus?” on her rounds - she joked that it had got into her brain.
It is absolutely spot on about the production prowess of China, and it is also correct about the requirement of China to increase domestic consumption.
Because the sweet spot for the world is for China to simply consume a much greater proportion of what they produce. The current imbalance is good for neither them, or for the world.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Actually....
We put out fly traps occasionally to do species monitoring in a local NNR and to see if any rarities turn up.
The standard method is to use ... apple vinegar.
Maybe it depends what sort of fly you want to catch.
This is a genuinely odd conversation.
Do I get exiled to ConHome if I suggest that when it comes to fly killing methods, it would be better if we zipped it?
I was in a silly mood...but then this is a silly conversation.
Xi is quite obviously far worse than Trump is or is ever likely to be. Yes, Trump says stupid things and is an ugly person but he is a long way from committing genocide.
There seems to be this silly idea that we can cosy up to China and somehow take advantage of them without any negative side effects. Seems rather too optimistic to me.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Actually....
We put out fly traps occasionally to do species monitoring in a local NNR and to see if any rarities turn up.
The standard method is to use ... apple vinegar.
Maybe it depends what sort of fly you want to catch.
Yes, yes, yes: I know that balsamic also works.
The fundamental point is a simple one, and is true whether we're talking about countries or people, and that is that face matters.
If you demand something of someone in front of other people, and you rob them of their agency, then their natural response will be say "fuck off", even if it's their best interests to accede to your wishes.
It's the same with countries: if you want someone to do something, you ask them nicely and well away from voters. What you don't do is to demand it publicly, because no leader wants to be seen as weak.
And, of course, you then get into a pissing contest.
The US enacts tariffs on China and Canada... they respond by implementing policies that affect US businesses... and then Trump doesn't want to be seen as weak, so he in turn ratchets up the pressure.
For Britain to cosy up to China now would be a strategic mistake approaching the level of Germany cosying up to Russia post 2008.
Which comes to the (slightly jokey) point I was making, and which triggered Max so much: if we cannot cosy up to China, and America under Trump becomes a very (ahem) unreliable partner, who else can we cosy up to?
Europe seems an obvious choice.
If the US now places its short term transactional interests above shared values then the UK is certainly entitled to do the same. Given the coming outright hostility from Washington to some core UK interests, quite a few people here will question the very basis of the Atlantic alliance, as the US right wing has been doing for some time. Britain has eternal interests not eternal alliances.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Actually....
We put out fly traps occasionally to do species monitoring in a local NNR and to see if any rarities turn up.
The standard method is to use ... apple vinegar.
Maybe it depends what sort of fly you want to catch.
This is a genuinely odd conversation.
Do I get exiled to ConHome if I suggest that when it comes to fly killing methods, it would be better if we zipped it?
I was in a silly mood...but then this is a silly conversation.
Xi is quite obviously far worse than Trump is or is ever likely to be. Yes, Trump says stupid things and is an ugly person but he is a long way from committing genocide.
There seems to be this silly idea that we can cosy up to China and somehow take advantage of them without any negative side effects. Seems rather too optimistic to me.
Also, Trump will be gone in four years.
But at the same time, if Trump makes demands of the UK - in the way that he has made demands of Canada - then what is HMG to do? Does it suck it up, and do what its told?
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
Well speaking for my self Kier starmer and the labour stooges are actually making me rethink my I will vote for anyone to keep out a lib dem stance as they are even worse
It is absolutely spot on about the production prowess of China, and it is also correct about the requirement of China to increase domestic consumption.
Because the sweet spot for the world is for China to simply consume a much greater proportion of what they produce. The current imbalance is good for neither them, or for the world.
It is great. Also chilling. And entirely accurate from what I saw in Japan and Korea in oct-nov. East Asia is determined to beat the baby bust not with mass migration, but with robotics and AI. They won’t attack your Christmas market
Britain hasn’t even done FAST trains yet and we are still spending £3trn on doing one fast line even as everyone else shifts to the NEXT technology. It’s like we spent £3bn on the worlds best horse-drawn omnibuses in 1910
Critical of Kemi Badenoch - WHY ARE PEOPLE SO MEAN TO THE TORIES
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
Because one of those people is the Prime Minister and the buck stops with him. He's got no plan and selling out to China seems to be the order of the day. You can't pretend that our national policy to China hasn't changed since Labour came in and it's one of selling out because they think it might be slightly economically beneficial now that they've trashed a growing economy.
Labour have even failed to sell out to China with the Chagos deal as china wants more than just giving them the island and paying them to take it.
It is absolutely spot on about the production prowess of China, and it is also correct about the requirement of China to increase domestic consumption.
Because the sweet spot for the world is for China to simply consume a much greater proportion of what they produce. The current imbalance is good for neither them, or for the world.
It is great. Also chilling. And entirely accurate from what I saw in Japan and Korea in oct-nov. East Asia is determined to beat the baby bust not with mass migration, but with robotics and AI. They won’t attack your Christmas market
Britain hasn’t even done FAST trains yet and we are still spending £3trn on doing one fast line even as everyone else shifts to the NEXT technology. It’s like we spent £3bn on the worlds best horse-drawn omnibuses in 1910
Embarrassing
Europe is finished. It’s a museum
There used to be a bloke on here called Sean something-or-other who was always banging on about the relentless ascendancy of Asia. He was, of course, absolutely correct, but there was SFA we could do about it ten years ago and now there's even less. As a well-fed parasite (rather than an engineer or computer-wallah) I can only hope and pray that the iniquitous economic system trickling cash into my bank account should continue for as long as I do. Après moi, le deluge.
I've worked a hundred and one hours in the last nine days
Just one more day, and then I get a whole day off
The rest of us appreciate your efforts, and those of your colleagues. I hope you continue to be paid in sterling, and not forints.
Speak for yourself and not trying to denigrate blanches efforts here but as the only thing that ever comes through my letterbox is either spam or demands I pay for a tv licence then to be honest not sure I would personally notice the royal mail being abolished
Is it right that there wasn't supposed to be much rain today according to yesterday's weather forecasts? I didn't see them. But it's raining a lot round here.
It is absolutely spot on about the production prowess of China, and it is also correct about the requirement of China to increase domestic consumption.
Because the sweet spot for the world is for China to simply consume a much greater proportion of what they produce. The current imbalance is good for neither them, or for the world.
It is great. Also chilling. And entirely accurate from what I saw in Japan and Korea in oct-nov. East Asia is determined to beat the baby bust not with mass migration, but with robotics and AI. They won’t attack your Christmas market
Britain hasn’t even done FAST trains yet and we are still spending £3trn on doing one fast line even as everyone else shifts to the NEXT technology. It’s like we spent £3bn on the worlds best horse-drawn omnibuses in 1910
Embarrassing
Europe is finished. It’s a museum
It happens to everyone eventually: Japan was the first country to become a museum; Europe is next. The US is going for freak show, rather than museum, but faces all the same challenges.
And then China will no doubt follow the Japanese path.
Because it's easy to work 100 hour weeks when you're digging yourself out of poverty.
And it's a lot harder when you have all your material needs met.
Comments
They are objectively worse than anything Trump can manage in 4 years.
The reason we concentrate on Trump, apart from the size of the US and its nearness on policy and society, is the potential *decline* that Trump represents from the current state of affairs.
China has been an effectively run fascism for decades. Whereas we could have been looking at President Harris, with a few coin flips.
Every post in the morning attacks Keir Starmer or a Keir Starmer supporter personally - nothing to see here
A populist, but non loony politician - imagine an American Berlusconi - would have already been on the phone to the EU.
Europe seems an obvious choice.
https://get-information-schools.service.gov.uk/Establishments/Establishment/Details/145581
From their website (https://cpriverside.co.uk/)
“We are an alternative provision free school situated within the City of Nottingham, delivering education to 12-16 year-olds who, for a variety of reasons, have found it difficult to enjoy, engage and succeed in a mainstream school, or are currently without a school place.”
So they are a school providing to secondary school children excluded from other schools. What used to be called a Sin Bin.
And of course @Anabobazina
I used to really enjoy your posts but I have frankly grown tired of them. We're done.
Shall we talk about cashless society again? That always creates a good debate.
Imagine how long it would take to get on the bus if they didn't have contactless. Thank goodness London is so forward-thinking.
Badly advised by SPAD's? Easily swayed? I've no idea. But it puzzles me given the big massive trad-tory shaped hole in the voting waiting to be hoovered up.
Not sure about the freedom point - I want to believe that is true, but I would have made that argument 20 years ago and been proved thoroughly wrong about China. I think the Russian parallels can obscure the differences as much as they illuminate the similarities.
But I mainly bow to others' superior knowledge - I am not an expert. Since I became an adult I have confidently expected the collapse of (a) China and (b) the UK housing market and have been proven wrong many times on both.
Until then, we shall occasionally stumble out of our caves, glance south, shield our eyes and grunt.
They want Chinese manufacturing technology (which is sensible); Trump’s policy isn’t in their interest at all.
That need not necessarily mean “cozying up”; rather it means trying to do to China something akin to what they did to western manufacturers over the last three decades.
{insert rest of 4 Yorkshiremen Sketck}
I'm not sure that the EU is over Brexit yet, and their posture seems unnecessarily antagonistic, founded on the concessions they can wring from Britain, rather than deepening a mutually beneficial relationship in an increasingly hostile world.
I think Britain could do with sorting itself out, rather than seeing help from other countries as a quick fix to avoid having to do so.
I was hoping a slowdown would lead to more demand for tutoring from English speakers, as the next best thing to going to an Anglophone country, but so far the opposite seems to be happening.
It's lucky I've picked up enough work domestically that I've not been missing the income.
Happy Christmas.
But the ludicrous suggestion - which I see on here - that some businesses should be forced by government fiat to accept it is so ridiculous I am losing the will even to argue with them.
I've worked a hundred and one hours in the last nine days
Just one more day, and then I get a whole day off
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/17/opinion/us-china-musk-swift-tariffs-manufacturing.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
We put out fly traps occasionally to do species monitoring in a local NNR and to see if any rarities turn up.
The standard method is to use ... apple vinegar.
Maybe it depends what sort of fly you want to catch.
Can't he sleep?
I was appalled to discover that the CERN accelerator doesn’t have a giant knife switch.
Do I get exiled to ConHome if I suggest that when it comes to fly killing methods, it would be better if we zipped it?
The parents are trying to prevent the nonesense where the kids turn up without enough English to study.
Until recently this has been a very profitable gig for teachers and even university students on the private tutoring websites.
It is absolutely spot on about the production prowess of China, and it is also correct about the requirement of China to increase domestic consumption.
Because the sweet spot for the world is for China to simply consume a much greater proportion of what they produce. The current imbalance is good for neither them, or for the world.
"Australian-style social media ban for under-16s ‘a retrograde step’, say UK charities"
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/nov/29/australia-social-media-ban-under-16s-uk-charities-children
Xi is quite obviously far worse than Trump is or is ever likely to be. Yes, Trump says stupid things and is an ugly person but he is a long way from committing genocide.
There seems to be this silly idea that we can cosy up to China and somehow take advantage of them without any negative side effects. Seems rather too optimistic to me.
The fundamental point is a simple one, and is true whether we're talking about countries or people, and that is that face matters.
If you demand something of someone in front of other people, and you rob them of their agency, then their natural response will be say "fuck off", even if it's their best interests to accede to your wishes.
It's the same with countries: if you want someone to do something, you ask them nicely and well away from voters. What you don't do is to demand it publicly, because no leader wants to be seen as weak.
And, of course, you then get into a pissing contest.
The US enacts tariffs on China and Canada... they respond by implementing policies that affect US businesses... and then Trump doesn't want to be seen as weak, so he in turn ratchets up the pressure.
And then we all lose.
https://www.tiktok.com/@cameronfor2029
That makes three in under a week.
And last night I used the previous two to pay for beer.
But at the same time, if Trump makes demands of the UK - in the way that he has made demands of Canada - then what is HMG to do? Does it suck it up, and do what its told?
Or does it say "fuck off".
Also this. China pioneering 600mph trains
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/china-is-building-a-train-that-travels-faster-than-a-plane/
Britain hasn’t even done FAST trains yet and we are still spending £3trn on doing one fast line even as everyone else shifts to the NEXT technology. It’s like we spent £3bn on the worlds best horse-drawn omnibuses in 1910
Embarrassing
Europe is finished. It’s a museum
CDC CONFIRMS FIRST SEVERE CASE OF H5N1 BIRD FLU IN UNITED STATES
https://x.com/DeItaone/status/1869413661888176604
And then China will no doubt follow the Japanese path.
Because it's easy to work 100 hour weeks when you're digging yourself out of poverty.
And it's a lot harder when you have all your material needs met.