The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
The moral deal would be to find out what the actual Chagos Islanders want….
Closer to home I’m a fan of doing some small land deals.
Give Spain the Isle of Portland and put Gibraltar to bed as an issue forever. And get ourselves a nice tapas and fino spot for summer evenings and stag and parties.
Take back the pale of Calais. Macron would be delighted as it’s all Le Pen voting up there. In return, give France South Ken. They practically have it already.
Get Heligoland back from Germany and give them Oxford. BMW is already there.
Finally, get Switzerland and give the Swiss Aviemore.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
"...closer economic ties with China..." What does one do with these people???
The leaders of our UK-wide political parties all seem to believe that the function of the British Government is to sell British land and pimp out British workers to foreign companies and nations. The only difference is to which ones. Farage, who pretends to be a patriot, has sold his soul to Trump and Musk and is their creature, with no words other than they bid him speak. If Badenoch weans herself off culture wars (trans bad! Muslims bad!) and refocuses on the British she has a chance to overcome this, but I don't see it.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
The moral deal would be to find out what the actual Chagos Islanders want….
Closer to home I’m a fan of doing some small land deals.
Give Spain the Isle of Portland and put Gibraltar to bed as an issue forever. And get ourselves a nice tapas and fino spot for summer evenings and stag and parties.
Take back the pale of Calais. Macron would be delighted as it’s all Le Pen voting up there. In return, give France South Ken. They practically have it already.
Get Heligoland back from Germany and give them Oxford. BMW is already there.
Finally, get Switzerland and give the Swiss Aviemore.
Good luck with those.
Perhaps we could throw in Swiss Cottage to sweeten the deal.
Spain would jump at Portland though. And why not. It would make Dorset hugely more exotic.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
So, despite (or, as a consequence of) the Daily Express having predicted a freezing white cold snap for Xmas, the forecast is now for Xmas Day to be markedly mild....
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
You miss one important factor
The common sense of the vast majority of the public
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Thats the problem as I gave alluded to elsewhere.
Give them power and there will be no ballot box.
Do you think Musk would want to be questioned, do you think Tommy Robinson would want a conversation, do you think Farage would be anything other than a Puppet.
This is an attempt to take over the 2 greatest western democracies of the past 3 centuries.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
You miss one important factor
The common sense of the vast majority of the public
Reform are coming 20 to 25% of them already.
That should terrify anyone who believes on the power of the ballot box.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
Only a few days ago it was the government briefing off the record that China is engaged in widespread spying to steal UK defence, technology, and trade secrets. In the US they are telling everyone to be careful what you say on the phone or via SMS because China is embedded in all telecommunication networks. We should be extremely wary of China, and reduce our dependence on their manufacturing. The idea that getting closer to authoritarian states through trade will make them less of a threat has been amply disproven by Europe's relationship with Russia.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
'A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.'
And Musk is a liar who holds worldwide communication companies.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
Seems like a bloody impressive big straw to me.
I suppose it's all relative.
The main positive from it is something might be done about large donations to political parties which, in my opinion, shouldn't be allowed. It is irritating that both Labour and the Tories only come around to reforms when all of a sudden it disadvantages them. Until then it's fine.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
A Turkish crime boss said to be one of Britain’s biggest drug dealers has won his human rights battle against deportation.
The man, who was jailed for 16 years for plotting to supply heroin across the UK, won the right to remain in the UK on the basis that it would breach his human right to a family life, even though he had an extra-marital affair with a woman in Turkey who he married to “preserve her honour”.
The 70-year-old drug dealer, who was granted anonymity, also claimed that as an Alevi Kurd he would be persecuted if he was deported to Turkey.
However, the immigration tribunal was told that he had returned to his homeland eight times since he came to Britain without facing any persecution.
The man’s claim to remain in the UK was backed by the UN Refugee Agency, despite the Home Office saying that he was a “danger to the community” and that his continued presence in the UK was “not conducive to the public good” because of his criminal history.
The tribunal was told that he was believed to be the head of an organised crime gang responsible at the time for 90 per cent of the UK heroin trade.
I think that some human rights lawyers and judges feel a positive glow of virtue, by endangering the public, in the cause of abstract principles.
I met some of the people involved in Capn’ Hooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri) fight against extradition. They were quite clear that they believed that all extradition and repatriation was wrong and they wanted to set precedents to stop all of it.
Such people are unhinged. Unfortunately, they are absurdly influential.
How have they attained so much influence ? What sort of thought processes do the relevant judges go through to reach their increasingly ridiculous conclusions ? It's precisely the same de haut en bas mindset that excluded the 2nd round of presidential elections going ahead in Romania.
Entryism.
We should trial taking these decisions out of the hands of the professional panels and using the general jury pool.
I have no views on this case, but three points.
I want to live in a country that has the rule of law, which means the courts can tell the government to get lost. This is a major difference between us and Russia et al. I like it that way.
This particular case has a potential for 4 levels of hearing - Tribunal, Appeals Tribunal, Court of Appeal, SC. If the government is right it can appeal.
Government through parliament makes the law and through parliament can change it. Courts don't make the laws.
Complete cant. The laws haven't particularly changed in this area for yonks but the jurisprudence has. Parliament may make the law, but it is the courts interpret it, and that interpretation is getting more bonkers by the day.
"I take this report seriously partly because it dovetails with accounts I heard over the weekend from friends who are still in touch with Hill Republicans. They all had heard that several senators were struck by just how unprepared Gabbard was for her meetings with them. One apparently commented that it was as if she was so confident of getting confirmed that she hadn’t even bothered to read the briefing book. Another reportedly said she didn’t understand basic aspects of how the job of director of national intelligence works or basic facts about some of the obvious challenges the next administration will face. There was discussion among senators that the confirmation hearing, if it got to that, could be a real fiasco, and that maybe they could get Trump to withdraw the nomination."
The thing about this site is that everyone is interested in policies and political ins and outs.
The public aren't interested in any of that. They just look and get a general feel.
Good example is the taller candidate almost always wins which has been discussed on here many times.
It was blindingly obvious that Truss did not look or feel like a PM. Whilst Badenoch is obviously not as low as the Truss level, she also does not meet the threshold for looking and feeling like a PM.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
£100 bet that there won't be a single labour/re-education camp opened by the Trump government from 2025-2029. Put your money where your idiot mouth is.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
Trump is a mere puppet, Farage is Trumps puppet
The Puppet master is Musk
He is the biggest threat to global democracy since the birth of modern demicracy
Within 5 years he has gained effective control of The White House and effectively controls the biggest nuclear arsenal on the planet, and the Skies around the globe
Next on his agenda is UK, Europe .. The Moon and Mars...
He's been given an inch and has already take thousands of miles
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
£100 bet that there won't be a single labour/re-education camp opened by the Trump government from 2025-2029. Put your money where your idiot mouth is.
That's a bet about something I didn't say.
It's perfectly possible for a country to be worse than China without having camps.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
£100 bet that there won't be a single labour/re-education camp opened by the Trump government from 2025-2029. Put your money where your idiot mouth is.
That's a bet about something I didn't say.
It's perfectly possible for a country to be worse than China without having camps.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
Ha ha
State of this idiot.
Changes their mind to suit whatever labour party policy is.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Malmesbury/Sean Fear - I've tended to assume that the problem lies with the Human Rights Act rather than the judges themselves. It's not for judges to remove someone's right to a family life - whatever that is supposed to mean in reality.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
We might see a kind Finlandization of the UK, where Britain supports US foreign policy + ignores a US slide into authoritarianism, in return for favorable treatment.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
The voice of reason.
History tells us that when the establishment thinks a potential dictator is just a bit of proverbial shit on their shoe it never ends well
The Prussian Generals in Germany
The Tsar and Dumas in Russia
The French colonists on Vietnam
Musk has a head start that may be a self fulfilling nightmare
His interest in the UK piqued when?... When Starmer was democratically elected and stood ip to him refusing to creep uip his back passage like Farage and Sunak
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
If you believe that spending money to fund campaigning is equivalent to buying parliament then you must have an incredibly dim view of the democratic process and of the average British voter.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
If you believe that spending money to fund campaigning is equivalent to buying parliament then you must have an incredibly dim view of the democratic process and of the average British voter.
If they own and take over Media they only have to convince another 10%
Once in the door they will be like the most vile virulent cancer that anyone could imagine
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
If you believe that spending money to fund campaigning is equivalent to buying parliament then you must have an incredibly dim view of the democratic process and of the average British voter.
If they own and take over Media they only have to convince another 10%
Once in the door they will be like the most vile virulent cancer that anyone could imagine
Maybe we literally need a kind of chemotherapy to stop it. Put something in the water to stop people being angry about the Labour government for no good reason.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
I think it’s one of those weird “secret signs” to other NZis like Combat 18’s 18 being A and H from alphabet (in this case the first H as Heil) and the guys who wear Lonsdale jumpers so the NSDA part can be seen in the opening of their bomber jacket to get around and sanction.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
No, come on. I agree that much of Trump's positioning isn't reassuring in ruling out a lurch to fascism. But that's also true of a lot of politics in Europe. And China is already there. At the moment, links to China are clearly the worst option available.
And from a pure economics point of view, China is also the worst option available. It is more fucked than Europe.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
We might see a kind Finlandization of the UK, where Britain supports US foreign policy + ignores a US slide into authoritarianism, in return for favorable treatment.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
We might see a kind Finlandization of the UK, where Britain supports US foreign policy + ignores a US slide into authoritarianism, in return for favorable treatment.
That sounds like Germany's approach to Putin. All of you are embarrassing yourselves over this at the moment. Trump may be unideal in many ways, Xi is a dictator who operates labour camps and kills people by the thousands for having the temerity for wanting a free society or to follow a religion. Get absolutely fucked.
It's self-evident that AI is going to do this to anyone who comes to rely on it. The idiocracy beckons.
We're already in a world where apparently intelligent people can't navigate around their own home town without electronic assistance. Including people of my age and above who presumably at one time could do so.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
£100 bet that there won't be a single labour/re-education camp opened by the Trump government from 2025-2029. Put your money where your idiot mouth is.
That's a bet about something I didn't say.
It's perfectly possible for a country to be worse than China without having camps.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
It's 1984 vs. Brave New World. One a dystopia forced from above, the other a dystopia embraced from below.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Do worse things than open mass labour camps for dissidents? You're a complete and utter fool of a man and you show yourself to be a shallow pseudo intellectual attempting to draw a parallel between people suffering and dying under a brutal dictatorship in China and Trump who is just a bit shitty. He's already had 4 years and there were no labour camps, no ghettoes, no death squads. People protested against him almost daily from 2016-2020 because America is a free society. Where are the protests against Xi? Oh right the protestors are all in labour camps or dead. Again, get absolutely fucked.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
I think it’s one of those weird “secret signs” to other NZis like Combat 18’s 18 being A and H from alphabet (in this case the first H as Heil) and the guys who wear Lonsdale jumpers so the NSDA part can be seen in the opening of their bomber jacket to get around and sanction.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
We might see a kind Finlandization of the UK, where Britain supports US foreign policy + ignores a US slide into authoritarianism, in return for favorable treatment.
That sounds like Germany's approach to Putin. All of you are embarrassing yourselves over this at the moment. Trump may be unideal in many ways, Xi is a dictator who operates labour camps and kills people by the thousands for having the temerity for wanting a free society or to follow a religion. Get absolutely fucked.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
Seems like a bloody impressive big straw to me.
I suppose it's all relative.
The main positive from it is something might be done about large donations to political parties which, in my opinion, shouldn't be allowed. It is irritating that both Labour and the Tories only come around to reforms when all of a sudden it disadvantages them. Until then it's fine.
Will anything be done about the influence of the PRC? The KSA? The WEF? These and many other organisations are foreign bodies seeking to influence and mould UK policy to their own ends and using wealth and patronage to do it. Nothing will be done about them, because this has nothing to do with foreigners wanting to influence UK politics - indeed if Musk was supporting Labour and its agenda, Sir Designer Glasses would be so far up him you wouldn't see where one ended and one began. It's about the foreign money going to the wrong people with dangerous ideas about free speech.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
You miss one important factor
The common sense of the vast majority of the public
Reform are coming 20 to 25% of them already.
That should terrify anyone who believes on the power of the ballot box.
Most voters don't follow politics a lot. Why should they? What exactly are the other parties doing to enable a casual voter who doesn't follow the detail to think that Lab/Con/LD are significantly more able, competent and successful at governing than Reform would be?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
I think it’s one of those weird “secret signs” to other NZis like Combat 18’s 18 being A and H from alphabet (in this case the first H as Heil) and the guys who wear Lonsdale jumpers so the NSDA part can be seen in the opening of their bomber jacket to get around and sanction.
The first H is heil.
So anyone with initials HH, born in 88, living at 88 or whose favourite number is 8 is a closet Nazi
FFS...
Anyone so obsessed as to look for it is obviously an obsessed Nazi fan boy .
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
It's also about Trends. Trump is a significant downgrade on all previous presidents in recent history, while Xi is perhaps worse than recent Premiers but a major step up from Mao, or the Century of chaos and war that preceeded Mao.
Also, Trump has the potential to destabilise the entire Western world and international order, while Xi is mostly a danger to his own people and neighbouring countries.
From a British perspective neither is desirable, but Trump is the more immediate cause of concern politically, militarily and economically.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
If you have to look on a map to find where somewhere is and it's literally on the other side of the globe how the feck can it be worth keeping
A 99 year lease is more than sufficient
Can anyone seriously argue that a runway will be worth anything strategically on 99 years time
It's not the isle of wight, isle of man or even Alderney.
It's just a badge for little englangers to whinge and moan about.
The fishing rights are the bigger economic issue.
Given the over fishing in much of the world, the Chinese want to move their factory ships into the area. And strip it clean.
To quote anno old comidiene
"Am I bovvered"
Fishing rights on the other side of the globe... Let the locals argue the toss, what's it got to do with us?
We currently have them.
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
It’s a hard truth that Musk just doesn’t seem foreign enough to most potential Reform supporters for this to be an issue.
He’s white. English speaking. Omnipresent on people’s devices therefore considered “us” rather than “them”.
Reform voters won’t give a shit. They like Trump after all.
He's white South African Afrikanner stock.
He's bought up with hardline Apartheid DNA
Thats why he's attracted to Robinson, Tate, Hopkins, Farage, Fox and other associated rabid fascists
Yes but how are you going to beat them in the ballot box
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
Interesting that @HH uses pseudo scientific talk of racial heritage to discuss fascism
I think it’s one of those weird “secret signs” to other NZis like Combat 18’s 18 being A and H from alphabet (in this case the first H as Heil) and the guys who wear Lonsdale jumpers so the NSDA part can be seen in the opening of their bomber jacket to get around and sanction.
The first H is heil.
So anyone with initials HH, born in 88, living at 88 or whose favourite number is 8 is a closet Nazi
FFS...
Anyone so obsessed as to look for it is obviously an obsessed Nazi fan boy .
Or maybe just a fan of the cooking show "Two Fat Ladies" and bingo calling.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
If you believe that spending money to fund campaigning is equivalent to buying parliament then you must have an incredibly dim view of the democratic process and of the average British voter.
I tentatively agree with this. Voters swing elections. Brexit won because Remain ran a dreadful campaign, the EU snubbed the UK in offering Cameron nothing, and successive UK governments didn't hold referendums.
Reform can't possibly win an election, whoever backs them with money, if at least one out of Lab and Con offered competence, honesty, centrism and could point to a reasonable record of these qualities in their past and most recent governments. This is just asking for something completely basic, not a gold unicorn.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
You miss one important factor
The common sense of the vast majority of the public
Reform are coming 20 to 25% of them already.
That should terrify anyone who believes on the power of the ballot box.
Most voters don't follow politics a lot. Why should they? What exactly are the other parties doing to enable a casual voter who doesn't follow the detail to think that Lab/Con/LD are significantly more able, competent and successful at governing than Reform would be?
Lab and Con have proven that they are incompetent and unsuccessful at governing. In particular, I didn’t believe any party could lie more than the Tories. However, since July, Labour have shown they are bigger liars than any previous Government. WFA, Waspi, Chagos, NI so far, with probably more to come.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
I fear China might be in a similar situation to Russia in the seventies and eighties - it's entire economy and plans are based on lies. Juniors lie to superiors, who then lie to their superiors, all the way to the top. There is little bad news, because giving bad news can be detrimental not just to your job, but your health.
This is not to say that China has not undergone an economic miracle over the last forty years - it has. But they may have got the easy wins, and their future gains may be much harder to get.
Russia managed to lie to itself for three or four decades before it all came to a head. Because their lies are less egregious, China might last longer.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
It is similar to Brexit and raises the same issues. The relationship between Arron Banks and the Russian Embassy is a matter of public record. That Banks was the largest individual source of finance for the Leave side is also a matter of public record. That the funding of the two Leave campaigns lacked transparency to this day is also a matter of public record.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
If you believe that spending money to fund campaigning is equivalent to buying parliament then you must have an incredibly dim view of the democratic process and of the average British voter.
I tentatively agree with this. Voters swing elections. Brexit won because Remain ran a dreadful campaign, the EU snubbed the UK in offering Cameron nothing, and successive UK governments didn't hold referendums.
Reform can't possibly win an election, whoever backs them with money, if at least one out of Lab and Con offered competence, honesty, centrism and could point to a reasonable record of these qualities in their past and most recent governments. This is just asking for something completely basic, not a gold unicorn.
If it can't be done they deserve to lose.
The UK's Net Zero policy is not moderate, conservative and therefore 'centrist' in any meaningful sense. Nor is a policy of importing millions with no serious attempt to repatriate any of them. Nor is a policy of raising taxes to thir highest level since WW2, then raising them some more. 'Centrism' has gone off the deep end with extremist policies, because it is groupthink masquerading as moderation.
Reform, who are no more right wing than the Tories of the Major era, are a correction toward conservatism/ centrism, not away from it.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
I fear China might be in a similar situation to Russia in the seventies and eighties - it's entire economy and plans are based on lies. Juniors lie to superiors, who then lie to their superiors, all the way to the top. There is little bad news, because giving bad news can be detrimental not just to your job, but your health.
This is not to say that China has not undergone an economic miracle over the last forty years - it has. But they may have got the easy wins, and their future gains may be much harder to get.
Russia managed to lie to itself for three or four decades before it all came to a head. Because their lies are less egregious, China might last longer.
I think fucked for lots of reasons, but two more than any others: denographics, which will hit them hard any minute now, and lack of freedom, without which I don't think western-style prosperity is possible. I think major economic decline within a decade. Russia-1990s style. Other prognoses are available! But I am heavily, heavily bearish on China.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
I am far from sanguine about what China is doing and have said as such in the past. I am not fond of the Chinese regime, to say the least. They are less of a threat than Russia atm, but have the potential to be much worse for, and tom the world. Xi is not a nice man, but he is not Stalin or Hitler.
Yet.
But the fact there is one bad player out there, does not mean we should be complacent about the potential of a second occurring. And I am very concerned about Trump, given America's importance to the world.
Just fucking knock it off. Give her a year to either bed in or prove a disaster. Until then, your daily diatribes are just deathly dull.
It isn't that she is 'doing badly' - she ain't doing great, but most people don't even watch PMQs. It's that she's not present. There's a policy absence, a media absence - an opposition absence. She polling doesn’t demonstrate her making a bad impact, it represents her making no impact against peoples' existing perception of the Tories.
At the moment the public (and therefore the media) don't want to hear from the Tories so it's very hard for Kemi to get exposure.
She does hardly any media. Add to that that her set piece event each week, isn't great (though it's improving), it's a recipe for a Nigel Farage Government.
Not sure about that. In the pocket of a foreign billionaire isn't a great look.
That's the straw we're clutching today is it?
I genuinely do not think it is a straw to be clutched at
As I just posted the reaction to Musk's money will go a long way to determine the future of Farage and Reform
And I wait to see, as I am genuinely intrigued and think it could go either way
If the Russian Report was produced in the same week as Labour bought forward legislation to ban all overseas donations to political parties to stop Musk it would destroy Reform
Reform let no one forget is not a political party. It is a limited company with a handful of shareholders.
It is what it is a vehicle to make a few rabid right wing individuals very rich irrespective of a right wing coup d'etat that Hitler failed to deliver using the ex King and Moseley in the 40s
Does anyone seriously want Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, disciples of and associates of Musk running our streets with hate, division and fear.
We saw a sickening glimpse of that from the Farage Riots on July. That showed just how dangerous Musk, Farage, Robinson and their thugs are.
Then you need to win the argument and ask why the Democrats lost to Trump
It is similar to Brexit and why did remain lose
To win an argument you need a fair playing field.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
This is overdone. Reform are doing OK because few voters feel that Lab or Con governments have been honest, truthful, competent, good at answering questions or clear about their direction. Avoidance of the hard question has become a universal first choice of tactic. Voters all know that to govern is to choose and it is dishonest to pretend otherwise. Populism doesn't spring from nowhere. It springs from genuine disillusion with the prevailing quality of governance.
This of course does not make Reform good. They are pretty bad. Only the mainstream of politics can put it right.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
I fear China might be in a similar situation to Russia in the seventies and eighties - it's entire economy and plans are based on lies. Juniors lie to superiors, who then lie to their superiors, all the way to the top. There is little bad news, because giving bad news can be detrimental not just to your job, but your health.
This is not to say that China has not undergone an economic miracle over the last forty years - it has. But they may have got the easy wins, and their future gains may be much harder to get.
Russia managed to lie to itself for three or four decades before it all came to a head. Because their lies are less egregious, China might last longer.
I think fucked for lots of reasons, but two more than any others: denographics, which will hit them hard any minute now, and lack of freedom, without which I don't think western-style prosperity is possible. I think major economic decline within a decade. Russia-1990s style. Other prognoses are available! But I am heavily, heavily bearish on China.
Good point about the demographics.
I am really concerned about China. They have spent the last decade massively increasing their military power, building massive numbers of tanks, planes and ships. They are very bellicose over areas like the South China Seas.
The thing about militaries is that many of the top brass like to actually use their shiny new toys. More so, if they believe they are the best and that their country's destiny is to be the regional player, and a major world power. If the economy goes downhill - or even the sustained growth they have seen for decades slackens - will Xi try a military adventure to quell dissent at home?
That's a fear for me.
On the other hand, Putin's experience in Ukraine might have caused Xi a few worries. What if the Chinese military is not as strong as they have told him they are?
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Do worse things than open mass labour camps for dissidents? You're a complete and utter fool of a man and you show yourself to be a shallow pseudo intellectual attempting to draw a parallel between people suffering and dying under a brutal dictatorship in China and Trump who is just a bit shitty. He's already had 4 years and there were no labour camps, no ghettoes, no death squads. People protested against him almost daily from 2016-2020 because America is a free society. Where are the protests against Xi? Oh right the protestors are all in labour camps or dead. Again, get absolutely fucked.
It's where Trump might go. The rule of law means nothing to him, as we have seen.
January 6th was not a good indicator, was it?
As for your insults: they say much more about you than they do about me.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
I am far from sanguine about what China is doing and have said as such in the past. I am not fond of the Chinese regime, to say the least. They are less of a threat than Russia atm, but have the potential to be much worse for, and tom the world. Xi is not a nice man, but he is not Stalin or Hitler.
Yet.
But the fact there is one bad player out there, does not mean we should be complacent about the potential of a second occurring. And I am very concerned about Trump, given America's importance to the world.
Yes, but you appear to be saying Trump is worse than Xi. That absolutely isn't tge case. He may conceivably become so. But at present Xi's is by far the worse regime and the balance of probability is that it will remain so
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
I am far from sanguine about what China is doing and have said as such in the past. I am not fond of the Chinese regime, to say the least. They are less of a threat than Russia atm, but have the potential to be much worse for, and tom the world. Xi is not a nice man, but he is not Stalin or Hitler.
Yet.
But the fact there is one bad player out there, does not mean we should be complacent about the potential of a second occurring. And I am very concerned about Trump, given America's importance to the world.
Trump2 is a massive worry. The world's richest country and biggest military (by miles) is for the next four years in the hands of a deeply malevolent person who will use that immense power capriciously and in the service of himself alone. Anybody being the teeniest bit sanguine about it needs to wake the fuck up.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
It is happening, and it's not being hidden very well. Forty banks have been rescued a la Bradford and Bingley in the second half of this year due to defaulting loans, and one of their largest financial institutions (the Zhongzhi Shadow Bank) collapsed altogether a year ago in a welter of mismanagement and fraud.
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
I think the inevitable consequence of Trump's tariff policies will be to push the rest of the world into the hands of China.
The funny thing is if Trump was just targeting China with tariffs then he might get others to join in on his side. Create a narrative around state subsidies distorting markets etc.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
Agreed, I think JJ is tying himself in knots.
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
My view is China is economically fucked. Even a very badly managed USA will do better than China over the next ten years.
Perhaps. I remember visiting for the Olympics and thinking it couldn't last, but nearly 20 years later it seems unstoppable.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
I fear China might be in a similar situation to Russia in the seventies and eighties - it's entire economy and plans are based on lies. Juniors lie to superiors, who then lie to their superiors, all the way to the top. There is little bad news, because giving bad news can be detrimental not just to your job, but your health.
This is not to say that China has not undergone an economic miracle over the last forty years - it has. But they may have got the easy wins, and their future gains may be much harder to get.
Russia managed to lie to itself for three or four decades before it all came to a head. Because their lies are less egregious, China might last longer.
I think fucked for lots of reasons, but two more than any others: denographics, which will hit them hard any minute now, and lack of freedom, without which I don't think western-style prosperity is possible. I think major economic decline within a decade. Russia-1990s style. Other prognoses are available! But I am heavily, heavily bearish on China.
Good point about the demographics.
I am really concerned about China. They have spent the last decade massively increasing their military power, building massive numbers of tanks, planes and ships. They are very bellicose over areas like the South China Seas.
The thing about militaries is that many of the top brass like to actually use their shiny new toys. More so, if they believe they are the best and that their country's destiny is to be the regional player, and a major world power. If the economy goes downhill - or even the sustained growth they have seen for decades slackens - will Xi try a military adventure to quell dissent at home?
That's a fear for me.
On the other hand, Putin's experience in Ukraine might have caused Xi a few worries. What if the Chinese military is not as strong as they have told him they are?
Yes - and it doesn't even have to be to quell dissent; if China sees terminal decline it may conclude that there will never be a better time than now.
The world needs to be very very reluctant to do anything to strengthen China.
Which is why Labour's foreign policy is so baffling.
The UKG/Labour approach to WASPI would be rather more convincing if it didn't tell the SNP to take it out of the SG budget. Which is flat out illegal under the Scotland Acts.
'[...] Kendall deflected by saying: “If the honourable lady wants a different approach, then the Scottish, the SNP Government in Scotland can do a different approach using the [devolution] settlement we have provided [...]"
The Treasury has drawn up detailed plans for closer economic ties with China
They focus on financial services and clean energy, draft policy proposals seen by Bloomberg show
Comes ahead of Rachel Reeves’ trip there next month
This is a disaster. First the surrender on Chagos and now we've got this mental "closer to China" idea. 2029 can't come soon enough. We need to get rid of Labour as fast as we can.
The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China.
Which leaves us with ... Europe.
(Runs for cover.)
What a load of nonsense, or do you think Trump will open up labour camps for political and religious dissidents? If you actually believe that and weren't trying to make a stupid comment then I feel sorry for you that you have such a blinkered world view and that you've clearly got a massive case of Trump derangement syndrome. Seriously get some perspective.
LOL. I suggest you study history a bit more.
This usually means "read about the Nazis and look for parallels everywhere".
Only in someone who has not ready enough history.
Which historical parallels do you turn to to help understand the age of Trump?
Why don't you read some history instead of asking dumb questions?
You think you're being clever but you aren't. You come across as a completely clueless fool. You made a stupid statement and now you don't want to walk it back. Stop digging it's just sad to watch.
An aggressive response.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
Yes, but China are already there! You're worrying - reasonably - about what Trump might do but seem sanguine abiut what China already does. China is a very very bad regime.
I am far from sanguine about what China is doing and have said as such in the past. I am not fond of the Chinese regime, to say the least. They are less of a threat than Russia atm, but have the potential to be much worse for, and tom the world. Xi is not a nice man, but he is not Stalin or Hitler.
Yet.
But the fact there is one bad player out there, does not mean we should be complacent about the potential of a second occurring. And I am very concerned about Trump, given America's importance to the world.
Yes, but you appear to be saying Trump is worse than Xi. That absolutely isn't tge case. He may conceivably become so. But at present Xi's is by far the worse regime and the balance of probability is that it will remain so
The statement I made was: "The USA under Trump might well be *worse* than China."
Not that Trump *is* worse than Xi. But as you say, it might happen. And IMO the signs of America becoming a much worse place in many ways, are there for everyone to see.
Comments
Remember 'sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me'
The leaders of our UK-wide political parties all seem to believe that the function of the British Government is to sell British land and pimp out British workers to foreign companies and nations. The only difference is to which ones. Farage, who pretends to be a patriot, has sold his soul to Trump and Musk and is their creature, with no words other than they bid him speak. If Badenoch weans herself off culture wars (trans bad! Muslims bad!) and refocuses on the British she has a chance to overcome this, but I don't see it.
When people like Musk can effectively own social media, main stream media, buy influence it begs the question
How do you win the argument?
That should equally worry Tories, Lds, Greens, Nats etc
Reform are grave danger to democracy, democratic right and left.
It's not a case of you and I having a discussion or political argument on a democracy
There will be no argument no democracy no freedom just thought control.
Spain would jump at Portland though. And why not. It would make Dorset hugely more exotic.
Let Leon serve as a bad example to us all.
The common sense of the vast majority of the public
Give them power and there will be no ballot box.
Do you think Musk would want to be questioned, do you think Tommy Robinson would want a conversation, do you think Farage would be anything other than a Puppet.
This is an attempt to take over the 2 greatest western democracies of the past 3 centuries.
That should terrify anyone who believes on the power of the ballot box.
And Musk is a liar who holds worldwide communication companies.
Which country are you living in at the moment, btw?
Plus the current deal is to give them to Mauritius along with the islands. This may not actually benefit the actual Chagos islanders. 88 has an online meaning. Don’t google it…
Eighth letter of the alphabet, twice.
Parliament may make the law, but it is the courts interpret it, and that interpretation is getting more bonkers by the day.
"I take this report seriously partly because it dovetails with accounts I heard over the weekend from friends who are still in touch with Hill Republicans. They all had heard that several senators were struck by just how unprepared Gabbard was for her meetings with them. One apparently commented that it was as if she was so confident of getting confirmed that she hadn’t even bothered to read the briefing book. Another reportedly said she didn’t understand basic aspects of how the job of director of national intelligence works or basic facts about some of the obvious challenges the next administration will face. There was discussion among senators that the confirmation hearing, if it got to that, could be a real fiasco, and that maybe they could get Trump to withdraw the nomination."
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/trumps-vengeance-tour-has-already?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
The thing about this site is that everyone is interested in policies and political ins and outs.
The public aren't interested in any of that. They just look and get a general feel.
Good example is the taller candidate almost always wins which has been discussed on here many times.
It was blindingly obvious that Truss did not look or feel like a PM. Whilst Badenoch is obviously not as low as the Truss level, she also does not meet the threshold for looking and feeling like a PM.
The Puppet master is Musk
He is the biggest threat to global democracy since the birth of modern demicracy
Within 5 years he has gained effective control of The White House and effectively controls the biggest nuclear arsenal on the planet, and the Skies around the globe
Next on his agenda is UK, Europe
.. The Moon and Mars...
He's been given an inch and has already take thousands of miles
It's perfectly possible for a country to be worse than China without having camps.
State of this idiot.
Changes their mind to suit whatever labour party policy is.
If Reform can gain a donation of 100 million dollars that would be a multiple of the £14 million TOTAL campaign donations for Labour, Tories, Lib Dems and Reform in the 2024 campaign. Any reasonable person could consider this foreign donation to be a deliberate attempt to buy British democracy regardless of the views of the voters.
While the Electoral Commission is very much a soft touch regulator, if they failed to take action to prevent this blatant foreign intervention in our democracy then there could and probably should be riots on the streets. Those responsible could be guilty of a criminal act in any event, but the idea that the Mother of Parliaments could be bought by some foreigner is and ought to be a source of deep national shame.
Farage worked for Russia Today, so his personal morality is clearly dodgy. He must not take the rest of us down his Trumpian path of disgrace and treachery.
Mr. Spock: "I do not understand the question."
Malmesbury/Sean Fear - I've tended to assume that the problem lies with the Human Rights Act rather than the judges themselves. It's not for judges to remove someone's right to a family life - whatever that is supposed to mean in reality.
https://betting.betfair.com/betfair-announcements/exchange-news/the-betfair-exchange-expert-fee-faq-111224-6.html
History tells us that when the establishment thinks a potential dictator is just a bit of proverbial shit on their shoe it never ends well
The Prussian Generals in Germany
The Tsar and Dumas in Russia
The French colonists on Vietnam
Musk has a head start that may be a self fulfilling nightmare
His interest in the UK piqued when?... When Starmer was democratically elected and stood ip to him refusing to creep uip his back passage like Farage and Sunak
His reaction... Classic Bully
Once in the door they will be like the most vile virulent cancer that anyone could imagine
And from a pure economics point of view, China is also the worst option available. It is more fucked than Europe.
It wasn't a stupid statement. As I've said passim. I don't think Trump is a fascist. But you do not need to be a fascist to do terrible things, or become a dictator. Perhaps even do worse things than China. I'd argue that Trump - and his supporters - attempts to control the 'truth', the courts, the rule of law, and the media are really, really bad indicators as to the future. As are the messianic belief many of his supporters seem to have in him.
How do humans accumulate expertise without doing a lot of the routine stuff first?
Still both dystopian.
China is a very very bad regime.
Can't you grasp that fact
Though I do think there is an argument for closer ties with China - it is likely to be more economically stable than USA if Trumpian economics holds sway for any length of time.
Ethically it's like choosing between a rabid dog that is regularly biting you on the leg and one that is just starting to show the first signs of foaming at the mouth, but since when did we base our foreign policy on ethics?
FFS...
Anyone so obsessed as to look for it is obviously an obsessed Nazi fan boy .
Also, Trump has the potential to destabilise the entire Western world and international order, while Xi is mostly a danger to his own people and neighbouring countries.
From a British perspective neither is desirable, but Trump is the more immediate cause of concern politically, militarily and economically.
Reform can't possibly win an election, whoever backs them with money, if at least one out of Lab and Con offered competence, honesty, centrism and could point to a reasonable record of these qualities in their past and most recent governments. This is just asking for something completely basic, not a gold unicorn.
If it can't be done they deserve to lose.
I doubt their economic statistics are real anyway, so define 'fucked'. I can see the demographic timebomb, but that will take a while to work through, no? And weird stuff like Temu seems to suggest there is still mileage in bringing the brave new capitalist world to rural China.
Are you thinking the housing market? The collapse of that seems to have been on the cards since the start of the pandemic, but either isn't happening or is hidden well.
This is not to say that China has not undergone an economic miracle over the last forty years - it has. But they may have got the easy wins, and their future gains may be much harder to get.
Russia managed to lie to itself for three or four decades before it all came to a head. Because their lies are less egregious, China might last longer.
Reform, who are no more right wing than the Tories of the Major era, are a correction toward conservatism/ centrism, not away from it.
Other prognoses are available! But I am heavily, heavily bearish on China.
Yet.
But the fact there is one bad player out there, does not mean we should be complacent about the potential of a second occurring. And I am very concerned about Trump, given America's importance to the world.
This of course does not make Reform good. They are pretty bad. Only the mainstream of politics can put it right.
I am really concerned about China. They have spent the last decade massively increasing their military power, building massive numbers of tanks, planes and ships. They are very bellicose over areas like the South China Seas.
The thing about militaries is that many of the top brass like to actually use their shiny new toys. More so, if they believe they are the best and that their country's destiny is to be the regional player, and a major world power. If the economy goes downhill - or even the sustained growth they have seen for decades slackens - will Xi try a military adventure to quell dissent at home?
That's a fear for me.
On the other hand, Putin's experience in Ukraine might have caused Xi a few worries. What if the Chinese military is not as strong as they have told him they are?
January 6th was not a good indicator, was it?
As for your insults: they say much more about you than they do about me.
He may conceivably become so. But at present Xi's is by far the worse regime and the balance of probability is that it will remain so
It is noticeable that the Chinese education market, which was buoyant three years ago, has suddenly gone into deep freeze. Two and a half years ago it provided around 40% of all the work I did. I've had one lesson (repeat, lesson) booked from China in the last three months - and if we only include lessons by people based in China we're going back nearly a year to the previous one.
But because he wants to pick a fight with everyone, he'll end up alienating everyone.
The world needs to be very very reluctant to do anything to strengthen China.
Which is why Labour's foreign policy is so baffling.
The UKG/Labour approach to WASPI would be rather more convincing if it didn't tell the SNP to take it out of the SG budget. Which is flat out illegal under the Scotland Acts.
'[...] Kendall deflected by saying: “If the honourable lady wants a different approach, then the Scottish, the SNP Government in Scotland can do a different approach using the [devolution] settlement we have provided [...]"
Not that Trump *is* worse than Xi. But as you say, it might happen. And IMO the signs of America becoming a much worse place in many ways, are there for everyone to see.
So I think we are in agreement...?
https://www.cbsnews.com/sacramento/news/california-bird-flu-state-of-emergency-newsom/