Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
That does sound bad. It's a shame, as a good primary school carol concert can be a wonderfully life-affiming and Christmasy experience. Our youngest is in year 7 now but the primary school Christmas concert, a lovely mix of tradition and more modern elements, used to be a highlight of the year. On Sunday we went to the carol service at our local church as our two younger children were accompanying the carols on cello and trumpet. I'm pretty much an atheist but I find the Christmas story of the little baby in the manger come to save mankind extremely compelling.
It is. I reckon you can make a good case for the Christmas message for atheists - of triumph out of unpromising circumstances. I have a vicar friend who reckons this nonsense, and that our interpretation of the Bible is all wrong, and actually the circumstances were triumphant. He's probably right. But I'd argue the story is actually more important that the actuality, and the story is of hope out of adversity.
Good to see local government (potentially) being sorted out. It’s an abject mess in most places. Two-tier councils are pointless, and cities like Nottingham and Manchester have ludicrously tight boundaries that make no geographical sense and should have been expanded decades ago.
JFDI.
That scraping noise is the West Bridgford Maquis sharpening the inherited Victorinox Oyster Shuckers they have left over from 1972...
The official 'City of Nottingham' is a geographical nonsense. Its borders should be expanded to encapsulate the likes of Bridgford, Gedling even Long Eaton, Ilkeston etc which are technically in Derbyshire but part of Greater Nottingham. Should have been done decades ago.
Similar situation in Manchester and Newcastle – where parts of what is effectively the city centre are in another council area.
JFDI.
Bollocks to that. Gateshead is, and always will be, in County Durham.
Not part of Newcastle, or in any way associated with that minor county on the other side of the river.
Wrong. It's not been in County Durham for 50 years. Only contrary old-timers think that. Gateshead quayside is part and parcel of Newcastle city centre. Merge them, along with North and South Tyneside, which are equally nonsensical constructs. Should have happened decades ago.
If you called it Tyneside or Tynebank or something you would probably get away with it, not if you called it Greater Newcastle or South Northumberland
It can be called Newcastle & Tyneside, if only to satisfy a miserable handful of parochial contrary old-timers. I have family from Gateshead. Everywhere they go, they (quite reasonably) say they are from Newcastle.
Presumably people like Sandy still insist Brixton is in Surrey and Tottenham is in Hertfordshire?
In Nottingham case voters in wards in Broxtowe/Bridgford who are in financially functioning district councils whose 2nd tier is the County will be transferred to a bankrupt city under these plans.
Madness.
Their services will be woeful compared to where they now live. Libraries shut, bin collections moved to once a month and all the rest.
Nope. Those residents are part and parcel of a functioning city – they should pay their way towards it, not reside in a make-believe tax haven outside its bonkers official boundaries.
Good luck selling that message to the voters...
Sounds like they plan not to hold elections so we can't make our views known at ballot box.
This lot seem absolutely determined to make the way clear for Farage and Reform.
When you've lost them, voters are very patient when waiting to tell parties they have lost their confidence. It was clear they wanted the Tories out. Sunak waiting a further six months would likeliest have just pissed off more of them. However long you play it, there is no happy outcome. Maybe too soon to say that of Starmer, but the signs aren't good.
Nottingham's population is 768,638, according to the ONS.
Yet Nottingham City Council's population is only 323,632.
So only 42% of the city's population is captured by the council area –– that is clearly insane and should have been fixed decades ago.
P.S. It's not just Nottingham that has this problem – similar issues exist in Newcastle, Bristol, Manchester etc.
Glasgow too.
I’m not sure about Newcastle. Going East from Newcastle you go Byker, Walker, Wallsend and then North Shields, Tynemouth / Whitley Bay all of which have their own (none Newcastle) identity.
Going North it’s Newcastle until Ponteland, going south it’s immediately Gateshead.
And going West it’s Newcastle all the way to open countryside
The "they have their own identity" thing is massively overegged. Do you think people from Wimbledon or Ealing are Londoners?
That's always overegged. Especially as the other common trope is that most areas do not have enough unique identity thesedays.
The simple truth is that they are Londoners and will mostly say they are from London when meeting people. They might specify which part of London, just as someone from Gateshead often says they are from Newcastle when they are on holiday but might then specify which bit if/when asked.
And councils are about sensible urban planning not spurious parochial claims.
As a Londoner, my assumption was that Londoners would tell non-Londoners they were from London, but if talking to another Londoner, they'd specify the district.
But I had a London immigrant tell me that I was wrong, and proper Londoners always told people what part of London they were from. As if a Cork man is likely to know the difference between Clapham and West Norwood.
My problem is that unless I go ultra specific it is not obvious how I should describe where I live. The specific choice would be Telegraph Hill, but nobody has heard of Telegraph Hill. We are a New Cross postcode, but we're not really in New Cross. We are in the LB of Lewisham, but not really in Lewisham. We are close to Brockley but that's a different postcode and the other side of the hill. We are close to Nunhead but that's in a different borough. I usually just say South East London and only go into more detail if requested. I wouldn't simply say "London" though, as I don't want anyone thinking I live in Clapham or, even worse, north of the River.
You choose the most desirable of New Cross, Lewisham, Brockley or Nunhead. I assume Brockley?
That's how it's done. How else do you think West Dulwich expanded so far that there's no East Norwood between West Norwood and West Dulwich?
These things change, though. The Estate Agent definition of Peckham has extended a lot in the last few years. Also, the fact is we just aren't in Brockley, so I would feel dishonest claiming we are. New Cross is probably the one I'd go for, as you can tell from my pseudonym. On the basis of postcode it is the most accurate.
The Only Living Boy in New Cross... I like it.
"Tom, get your plane right on time I know your part'll go fine"
Best ever Paul Simon song (alongside quite a few others, tbf).
Very well done to the government, I am genuinely surprised by this sensible and appropriate decision. Campaigners have reacted with fury to what it calls the government's "unjustified" rejection of compensation for women hit by changes to the state pension age.
They say 3.6 million women born in the 1950s were not properly informed of the rise in state pension age to bring them into line with men.
Yes, this is an excellent decision from the govt, impressed with how quickly since coming to office they have come up with a final position.
The fury will outweigh any attempt yo make the logical argument that the vast majority of waspi women knew what was coming.
Those on charge of the campaign most furious should be ashamed that they actually encouraged many to think they may get 6 years full pension refund.
It was never going to be more than an ex gratia payment of a few grand.
It wasn't budgeted for, like blood scandal and post office were in past Reeves budget so the writing was on the wall. Tories palpavly failed to fund any of the three.
I though Labour would find something over 3 to 4 years and am surprised they haven't, ecpecially on a day when they announce they will add Capture, pre horizon cases to the PO investigation and find it.
They will be hammered for this in all MSM the timing is cynical.
Politically a bad move, economically a sound move....
Pensioners will be hoping triple lock remains and from somewhere Labour can find some sweeteners on coming 5 years
Breaking: The new Mauritius PM says the Chagos Islands deal struck by Keir Starmer isn’t good enough and he wants to reopen talks
He rejects current terms as they “would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect”
Blow for Starmer as delay risks Trump blocking deal
Seems to have been a total shitshow all around. The practical benefits (regardless of any supposed moral benefits) do not appear to be materialising given that type of reaction.
Keir Starmer’s government: so utterly shit they can’t even betray the nation despite offering massive financial inducements to our enemies
It’s like we’re governed by a drunken Kim Philby, but he keeps leaking our top secret information to some bemused garage attendants in Barcelona, while wearing nothing but a purple beret and a tartan penis gourd
No, it's far more like when Dylan went electric. But keep trying ...
In what way?
As in doing something that took the public, even his biggest fans, a while to cotton onto and appreciate.
It had the distinct upside of drowning out his voice.
The gorgeous Nick Ferrari rinses Starmer. "Why are you not spending 3% of GDP on defence you surrender monkey*? "What does it feel like to be the most unpopular Prime Minister ever**?" Tomorrow on LBC's Nick Ferrari at Breakfast.
*My precis.
** Nick's actual question.
Says the Tory stoigevwho said bugger all when Tories inherited 2.5% GDP spending on 2010 and reduced it to 2% for a decade and no where bear 2.5% since 2020.
I was fighting your corner earlier, but is this post written in code?
They mean Nick Ferrari is the Tory stoigey, MP, not you.
I was confused as to where the bear fitted in too.
I hope this was just another attack on Biden, rather than signalling Trump's intentions towards Ukraine. Probably a forlorn hope.
Trump falsely claims the Biden administration’s decisions to allow Ukraine to launch US-supplied ATACMS into Russian territory led to the North Koreans being deployed to Russia and entering the war. But Pyongyang sent 11,000 troops to Russia a month earlier. In fact, part of the Biden admin’s reasoning was the North Koreans’ foray into the war... https://x.com/ChristopherJM/status/1868707995804369281
For someone who prides himself on being a tough negotiator Trump certainly doesn't seem to be acting very tough towards Russia.
I'm not convinced, yet, that he's actually on Russia's side here but I think some in his camp actively are. Not just neutral.
He's on nobody's side but his own. Regardless of the geopolitical calculus, the strategy and tactics, the precise amount of aid, the red lines, the risk appetite, every US president we've ever known would have instinctively felt that the defence of a sovereign democratic European nation attacked and invaded by Putin's Russia was a righteous cause. They would have been on Ukraine's side. This is not the case with this one. He sees no right or wrong in the conflict. There's no moral weighting to the thinking at all. That's a massive change as of Nov 5th and it bodes ill for Ukraine.
Believing something is a righteous cause and doing the right thing do not always go together. Biden's 'righteous' support of Ukraine has meant forcing them to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. You can justify a lot of bad things in the name of righteousness.
Yes to your general point (rather than that specific jaundiced take on Biden's record) but it's no rebuttal to what I'm saying, which is that if your heart's not in something you're less likely to pursue it - the 'it' here being helping Ukraine defend itself against Putin. That's undeniable, I think. It's a fact of life. Ukraine's prospects took a hit on Nov 5th. Things might yet work out for them but it's less likely now.
Except for the fact that Biden didn't do that. Very early on he said explicitly that he wouldn't give Ukraine what they were asking for because it would split NATO (i.e. countried like Germany were opposed). Biden's heart was in maintaining the alliance more than it was in defending Ukraine. It needed someone who was willing to say, "screw the alliance" and focus on the practical issues without any moralising or any illusions.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
The gorgeous Nick Ferrari rinses Starmer. "Why are you not spending 3% of GDP on defence you surrender monkey*? "What does it feel like to be the most unpopular Prime Minister ever**?" Tomorrow on LBC's Nick Ferrari at Breakfast.
*My precis.
** Nick's actual question.
Says the Tory stoigevwho said bugger all when Tories inherited 2.5% GDP spending on 2010 and reduced it to 2% for a decade and no where bear 2.5% since 2020.
I was fighting your corner earlier, but is this post written in code?
They mean Nick Ferrari is the Tory stoigey, MP, not you.
I was confused as to where the bear fitted in too.
Always a typo or two with shecorns. Integral part of the offering.
Really interesting piece on how to do public works properly - cheap and quick, getting the public on board, and shoving the inquiry industry out of the way.
Yes, that is an excellent example of good practice, that I posted recently, too.
Similarly, Europe has shown that tram systems can be built much cheaper than we've managed.
"Throughout construction, community engagement remained limited and top-down." Yes. The weird obsession with community engagement needs to end. You only engage ninbys with time on their hands not actual working people who would benefit.
Breaking: The new Mauritius PM says the Chagos Islands deal struck by Keir Starmer isn’t good enough and he wants to reopen talks
He rejects current terms as they “would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect”
Blow for Starmer as delay risks Trump blocking deal
Seems to have been a total shitshow all around. The practical benefits (regardless of any supposed moral benefits) do not appear to be materialising given that type of reaction.
Keir Starmer’s government: so utterly shit they can’t even betray the nation despite offering massive financial inducements to our enemies
It’s like we’re governed by a drunken Kim Philby, but he keeps leaking our top secret information to some bemused garage attendants in Barcelona, while wearing nothing but a purple beret and a tartan penis gourd
No, it's far more like when Dylan went electric. But keep trying ...
In what way?
As in doing something that took the public, even his biggest fans, a while to cotton onto and appreciate.
It had the distinct upside of drowning out his voice.
His voice is an acquired taste that rewards those who acquire it. Same with Bob Dylan.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
Sounds suspiciously like a box ticking exercise by a woke head teacher who is convinced that a traditional carol service will upset any non christians (or the DoE).
It does seem like that - but I know the head, a bit, and I don't think that's the case: I just think she genuinely thinks this sort of thing is more accessible for the kids. I think the reverse is true - it's less accessible (because they've never heard the songs before because quite frankly they don't deserve to be heard) and more religious (because the religioisty seems more sincere as its not tempered by familiarity and tradition.) The non-religious and non-Christian (i.e. almost everyone) are more alienated by this that they would be by better known carols.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
Sounds suspiciously like a box ticking exercise by a woke head teacher who is convinced that a traditional carol service will upset any non christians (or the DoE).
Any teacher who thought a traditional carol service would upset the DoE would be rushing to put on about six of them.
Breaking: The new Mauritius PM says the Chagos Islands deal struck by Keir Starmer isn’t good enough and he wants to reopen talks
He rejects current terms as they “would not produce the benefits that the nation could expect”
Blow for Starmer as delay risks Trump blocking deal
Seems to have been a total shitshow all around. The practical benefits (regardless of any supposed moral benefits) do not appear to be materialising given that type of reaction.
Keir Starmer’s government: so utterly shit they can’t even betray the nation despite offering massive financial inducements to our enemies
It’s like we’re governed by a drunken Kim Philby, but he keeps leaking our top secret information to some bemused garage attendants in Barcelona, while wearing nothing but a purple beret and a tartan penis gourd
No, it's far more like when Dylan went electric. But keep trying ...
In what way?
As in doing something that took the public, even his biggest fans, a while to cotton onto and appreciate.
It had the distinct upside of drowning out his voice.
His voice is an acquired taste that rewards those who acquire it. Same with Bob Dylan.
I see why you've chosen that analogy. When you see Starmer denouncing open borders, you must be shouting "Judas!" at the television.
Really interesting piece on how to do public works properly - cheap and quick, getting the public on board, and shoving the inquiry industry out of the way.
Good to see local government (potentially) being sorted out. It’s an abject mess in most places. Two-tier councils are pointless, and cities like Nottingham and Manchester have ludicrously tight boundaries that make no geographical sense and should have been expanded decades ago.
JFDI.
That scraping noise is the West Bridgford Maquis sharpening the inherited Victorinox Oyster Shuckers they have left over from 1972...
The official 'City of Nottingham' is a geographical nonsense. Its borders should be expanded to encapsulate the likes of Bridgford, Gedling even Long Eaton, Ilkeston etc which are technically in Derbyshire but part of Greater Nottingham. Should have been done decades ago.
Similar situation in Manchester and Newcastle – where parts of what is effectively the city centre are in another council area.
JFDI.
Bollocks to that. Gateshead is, and always will be, in County Durham.
Not part of Newcastle, or in any way associated with that minor county on the other side of the river.
Wrong. It's not been in County Durham for 50 years. Only contrary old-timers think that. Gateshead quayside is part and parcel of Newcastle city centre. Merge them, along with North and South Tyneside, which are equally nonsensical constructs. Should have happened decades ago.
If you called it Tyneside or Tynebank or something you would probably get away with it, not if you called it Greater Newcastle or South Northumberland
It can be called Newcastle & Tyneside, if only to satisfy a miserable handful of parochial contrary old-timers. I have family from Gateshead. Everywhere they go, they (quite reasonably) say they are from Newcastle.
Presumably people like Sandy still insist Brixton is in Surrey and Tottenham is in Hertfordshire?
In Nottingham case voters in wards in Broxtowe/Bridgford who are in financially functioning district councils whose 2nd tier is the County will be transferred to a bankrupt city under these plans.
Madness.
Their services will be woeful compared to where they now live. Libraries shut, bin collections moved to once a month and all the rest.
Nope. Those residents are part and parcel of a functioning city – they should pay their way towards it, not reside in a make-believe tax haven outside its bonkers official boundaries.
Good luck selling that message to the voters...
Sounds like they plan not to hold elections so we can't make our views known at ballot box.
This lot seem absolutely determined to make the way clear for Farage and Reform.
When you've lost them, voters are very patient when waiting to tell parties they have lost their confidence. It was clear they wanted the Tories out. Sunak waiting a further six months would likeliest have just pissed off more of them. However long you play it, there is no happy outcome. Maybe too soon to say that of Starmer, but the signs aren't good.
Nottingham's population is 768,638, according to the ONS.
Yet Nottingham City Council's population is only 323,632.
So only 42% of the city's population is captured by the council area –– that is clearly insane and should have been fixed decades ago.
P.S. It's not just Nottingham that has this problem – similar issues exist in Newcastle, Bristol, Manchester etc.
Glasgow too.
I’m not sure about Newcastle. Going East from Newcastle you go Byker, Walker, Wallsend and then North Shields, Tynemouth / Whitley Bay all of which have their own (none Newcastle) identity.
Going North it’s Newcastle until Ponteland, going south it’s immediately Gateshead.
And going West it’s Newcastle all the way to open countryside
The "they have their own identity" thing is massively overegged. Do you think people from Wimbledon or Ealing are Londoners?
That's always overegged. Especially as the other common trope is that most areas do not have enough unique identity thesedays.
The simple truth is that they are Londoners and will mostly say they are from London when meeting people. They might specify which part of London, just as someone from Gateshead often says they are from Newcastle when they are on holiday but might then specify which bit if/when asked.
And councils are about sensible urban planning not spurious parochial claims.
As a Londoner, my assumption was that Londoners would tell non-Londoners they were from London, but if talking to another Londoner, they'd specify the district.
But I had a London immigrant tell me that I was wrong, and proper Londoners always told people what part of London they were from. As if a Cork man is likely to know the difference between Clapham and West Norwood.
My problem is that unless I go ultra specific it is not obvious how I should describe where I live. The specific choice would be Telegraph Hill, but nobody has heard of Telegraph Hill. We are a New Cross postcode, but we're not really in New Cross. We are in the LB of Lewisham, but not really in Lewisham. We are close to Brockley but that's a different postcode and the other side of the hill. We are close to Nunhead but that's in a different borough. I usually just say South East London and only go into more detail if requested. I wouldn't simply say "London" though, as I don't want anyone thinking I live in Clapham or, even worse, north of the River.
You choose the most desirable of New Cross, Lewisham, Brockley or Nunhead. I assume Brockley?
That's how it's done. How else do you think West Dulwich expanded so far that there's no East Norwood between West Norwood and West Dulwich?
These things change, though. The Estate Agent definition of Peckham has extended a lot in the last few years. Also, the fact is we just aren't in Brockley, so I would feel dishonest claiming we are. New Cross is probably the one I'd go for, as you can tell from my pseudonym. On the basis of postcode it is the most accurate.
The Only Living Boy in New Cross... I like it.
"Tom, get your plane right on time I know your part'll go fine"
To be honest, my mind more automatically autocompletes 'Only Living Boy in' to New Cross, after the Carter USM song, than it does to New York, after the S&G song.
Farage meets Musk in Florida with promises of financial help on it's way
My question - how will the public react to this ?
Probably much depends on how Trump fares in US in 2025
Farage might like the attention he gets among the US Republican movement, but he’s an idiot if he thinks that taking a load of foreign money will be in any way beneficial to him in the UK. He might be able to keep a group of activists and think-tank types happy for a bit, but that’s not going to translate into an actual election campaign in the future.
Very well done to the government, I am genuinely surprised by this sensible and appropriate decision. Campaigners have reacted with fury to what it calls the government's "unjustified" rejection of compensation for women hit by changes to the state pension age.
They say 3.6 million women born in the 1950s were not properly informed of the rise in state pension age to bring them into line with men.
Yes, this is an excellent decision from the govt, impressed with how quickly since coming to office they have come up with a final position.
The fury will outweigh any attempt yo make the logical argument that the vast majority of waspi women knew what was coming.
Those on charge of the campaign most furious should be ashamed that they actually encouraged many to think they may get 6 years full pension refund.
It was never going to be more than an ex gratia payment of a few grand.
It wasn't budgeted for, like blood scandal and post office were in past Reeves budget so the writing was on the wall. Tories palpavly failed to fund any of the three.
I though Labour would find something over 3 to 4 years and am surprised they haven't, ecpecially on a day when they announce they will add Capture, pre horizon cases to the PO investigation and find it.
They will be hammered for this in all MSM the timing is cynical.
Politically a bad move, economically a sound move....
Pensioners will be hoping triple lock remains and from somewhere Labour can find some sweeteners on coming 5 years
The Tories not funding WASPI so-called compensation was the right thing to do. No compensation is merited or deserved. It should never have been budgeted for. Taxpayers should not be expected to pay money to entitled boomers who couldn’t be bothered to appraise themselves of these changes or ignored correspondance.
The other two matters should have been funded and shame on them for not doing so.
Fury or not they have lost. State pension is a benefit not an entitlement.
They can be hammered in the press all they,like, it won’t change anything. The minor parties will still demand money for these people and if the Lib Dems ever got a chance of power in coalition they’d drop any commitment as fast as you could say ‘tuition fees’.
When our daughter was at college, she had a muslim boyfriend for a number of years. We had him, and a number of his friends who weren’t able to go home to Bahrain, etc, for Christmas dinner. We bought a halal turkey, which was excellent.
Farage meets Musk in Florida with promises of financial help on it's way
My question - how will the public react to this ?
Probably much depends on how Trump fares in US in 2025
Farage might like the attention he gets among the US Republican movement, but he’s an idiot if he thinks that taking a load of foreign money will be in any way beneficial to him in the UK. He might be able to keep a group of activists and think-tank types happy for a bit, but that’s not going to translate into an actual election campaign in the future.
Being able to bankroll the activists and think-tanks who would otherwise back the Tories might be worth more than you think.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
Think I'm with you here. You want more of the classics than that. Sounds like someone being too clever by half. It's reminding me of when I went to see Elton John at the Albert Hall and he'd reworked all of his stuff to sound edgy and urban, every song dominated by a big bald guy at the front of the stage bashing on a drum. Terrible it was. Nothing like when Dylan went electric.
The gorgeous Nick Ferrari rinses Starmer. "Why are you not spending 3% of GDP on defence you surrender monkey*? "What does it feel like to be the most unpopular Prime Minister ever**?" Tomorrow on LBC's Nick Ferrari at Breakfast.
*My precis.
** Nick's actual question.
Says the Tory stoigevwho said bugger all when Tories inherited 2.5% GDP spending on 2010 and reduced it to 2% for a decade and no where bear 2.5% since 2020.
I was fighting your corner earlier, but is this post written in code?
They mean Nick Ferrari is the Tory stoigey, MP, not you.
I was confused as to where the bear fitted in too.
Always a typo or two with shecorns. Integral part of the offering.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
That does sound bad. It's a shame, as a good primary school carol concert can be a wonderfully life-affiming and Christmasy experience. Our youngest is in year 7 now but the primary school Christmas concert, a lovely mix of tradition and more modern elements, used to be a highlight of the year. On Sunday we went to the carol service at our local church as our two younger children were accompanying the carols on cello and trumpet. I'm pretty much an atheist but I find the Christmas story of the little baby in the manger come to save mankind extremely compelling.
It is. I reckon you can make a good case for the Christmas message for atheists - of triumph out of unpromising circumstances. I have a vicar friend who reckons this nonsense, and that our interpretation of the Bible is all wrong, and actually the circumstances were triumphant. He's probably right. But I'd argue the story is actually more important that the actuality, and the story is of hope out of adversity.
Common worship is all about songs not hymns.. they often have a guitar and drums and or flute and usually ignore the organ. Cf. Songs of Praise
Thats not for me but the Church thinks it's the way to go.
There is still the original Book of Common Prayer Service mainly 8am H Communion if Common Wordship is the main Service.and it's a said service with no hymns usually.
You can always find a traditional church with a traditional service by consulting the Prayer Book Society which will direct you to the nearest BCP Church.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
I don’t wassail either. It would be more like an ass wailing.
I hope this was just another attack on Biden, rather than signalling Trump's intentions towards Ukraine. Probably a forlorn hope.
Trump falsely claims the Biden administration’s decisions to allow Ukraine to launch US-supplied ATACMS into Russian territory led to the North Koreans being deployed to Russia and entering the war. But Pyongyang sent 11,000 troops to Russia a month earlier. In fact, part of the Biden admin’s reasoning was the North Koreans’ foray into the war... https://x.com/ChristopherJM/status/1868707995804369281
For someone who prides himself on being a tough negotiator Trump certainly doesn't seem to be acting very tough towards Russia.
I'm not convinced, yet, that he's actually on Russia's side here but I think some in his camp actively are. Not just neutral.
He's on nobody's side but his own. Regardless of the geopolitical calculus, the strategy and tactics, the precise amount of aid, the red lines, the risk appetite, every US president we've ever known would have instinctively felt that the defence of a sovereign democratic European nation attacked and invaded by Putin's Russia was a righteous cause. They would have been on Ukraine's side. This is not the case with this one. He sees no right or wrong in the conflict. There's no moral weighting to the thinking at all. That's a massive change as of Nov 5th and it bodes ill for Ukraine.
Believing something is a righteous cause and doing the right thing do not always go together. Biden's 'righteous' support of Ukraine has meant forcing them to fight with one hand tied behind their backs. You can justify a lot of bad things in the name of righteousness.
Yes to your general point (rather than that specific jaundiced take on Biden's record) but it's no rebuttal to what I'm saying, which is that if your heart's not in something you're less likely to pursue it - the 'it' here being helping Ukraine defend itself against Putin. That's undeniable, I think. It's a fact of life. Ukraine's prospects took a hit on Nov 5th. Things might yet work out for them but it's less likely now.
Except for the fact that Biden didn't do that. Very early on he said explicitly that he wouldn't give Ukraine what they were asking for because it would split NATO (i.e. countried like Germany were opposed). Biden's heart was in maintaining the alliance more than it was in defending Ukraine. It needed someone who was willing to say, "screw the alliance" and focus on the practical issues without any moralising or any illusions.
You are really straining now. It's unwise at your age.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
That does sound bad. It's a shame, as a good primary school carol concert can be a wonderfully life-affiming and Christmasy experience. Our youngest is in year 7 now but the primary school Christmas concert, a lovely mix of tradition and more modern elements, used to be a highlight of the year. On Sunday we went to the carol service at our local church as our two younger children were accompanying the carols on cello and trumpet. I'm pretty much an atheist but I find the Christmas story of the little baby in the manger come to save mankind extremely compelling.
It is. I reckon you can make a good case for the Christmas message for atheists - of triumph out of unpromising circumstances. I have a vicar friend who reckons this nonsense, and that our interpretation of the Bible is all wrong, and actually the circumstances were triumphant. He's probably right. But I'd argue the story is actually more important that the actuality, and the story is of hope out of adversity.
I'd comment there that hope out of adversity *is* in large part the actuality, and I see no conflict in multiple interpretations.
For the same reason I'd quarrel with evaluations such as "our interpretation" and "all wrong"; the various interpretations are different views, which are to be expected in an NT written for the many different types of community making up the Roman Empire.
I was quite interested that Kemi quoted "The parable of the talents" as her favourite, which is about good stewardship of what you (have been given), and what the warning of a bad servant who is chucked out. But OTOH the master is an absentee landlord, and there are lots of awkward questions for that character to answer especially in 2024, and other parables about that.
Equally the form of the community in Acts has been taken as an inspiration for a Christian Communism.
I hope this was just another attack on Biden, rather than signalling Trump's intentions towards Ukraine. Probably a forlorn hope.
Trump falsely claims the Biden administration’s decisions to allow Ukraine to launch US-supplied ATACMS into Russian territory led to the North Koreans being deployed to Russia and entering the war. But Pyongyang sent 11,000 troops to Russia a month earlier. In fact, part of the Biden admin’s reasoning was the North Koreans’ foray into the war... https://x.com/ChristopherJM/status/1868707995804369281
It was caused by Ukraine's Kursk incursion which activated the mutual defence treaty between Russia and North Korea.
Blimey, you are deep in the tank.
It's a factual statement. You can be opposed to Russia without having to live in a fantasy world.
So, if a NATO country (say) Turkey invaded Armenia, and then Armenian troops were to cross over into Turkey, that would constitute an attack on a NATO nation and result in the invocation of Article 5?
Good to see local government (potentially) being sorted out. It’s an abject mess in most places. Two-tier councils are pointless, and cities like Nottingham and Manchester have ludicrously tight boundaries that make no geographical sense and should have been expanded decades ago.
JFDI.
That scraping noise is the West Bridgford Maquis sharpening the inherited Victorinox Oyster Shuckers they have left over from 1972...
The official 'City of Nottingham' is a geographical nonsense. Its borders should be expanded to encapsulate the likes of Bridgford, Gedling even Long Eaton, Ilkeston etc which are technically in Derbyshire but part of Greater Nottingham. Should have been done decades ago.
Similar situation in Manchester and Newcastle – where parts of what is effectively the city centre are in another council area.
JFDI.
Bollocks to that. Gateshead is, and always will be, in County Durham.
Not part of Newcastle, or in any way associated with that minor county on the other side of the river.
Wrong. It's not been in County Durham for 50 years. Only contrary old-timers think that. Gateshead quayside is part and parcel of Newcastle city centre. Merge them, along with North and South Tyneside, which are equally nonsensical constructs. Should have happened decades ago.
If you called it Tyneside or Tynebank or something you would probably get away with it, not if you called it Greater Newcastle or South Northumberland
It can be called Newcastle & Tyneside, if only to satisfy a miserable handful of parochial contrary old-timers. I have family from Gateshead. Everywhere they go, they (quite reasonably) say they are from Newcastle.
Presumably people like Sandy still insist Brixton is in Surrey and Tottenham is in Hertfordshire?
In Nottingham case voters in wards in Broxtowe/Bridgford who are in financially functioning district councils whose 2nd tier is the County will be transferred to a bankrupt city under these plans.
Madness.
Their services will be woeful compared to where they now live. Libraries shut, bin collections moved to once a month and all the rest.
Nope. Those residents are part and parcel of a functioning city – they should pay their way towards it, not reside in a make-believe tax haven outside its bonkers official boundaries.
Good luck selling that message to the voters...
Sounds like they plan not to hold elections so we can't make our views known at ballot box.
This lot seem absolutely determined to make the way clear for Farage and Reform.
When you've lost them, voters are very patient when waiting to tell parties they have lost their confidence. It was clear they wanted the Tories out. Sunak waiting a further six months would likeliest have just pissed off more of them. However long you play it, there is no happy outcome. Maybe too soon to say that of Starmer, but the signs aren't good.
Nottingham's population is 768,638, according to the ONS.
Yet Nottingham City Council's population is only 323,632.
So only 42% of the city's population is captured by the council area –– that is clearly insane and should have been fixed decades ago.
P.S. It's not just Nottingham that has this problem – similar issues exist in Newcastle, Bristol, Manchester etc.
I think that's Nottingham Urban Area, which is a fairly bizarre methodology.
Why is it bizarre? It's the Greater Nottingham area. Maybe the odd edge case settlement is 14 miles away, most of it is nothing like far away. And so what?
Old Denby, for example, is not the "Greater Nottingham Area". Nor is Heanor. Nor is Ripley.
Drawing it out that far is beyond absurd.
There will always be tiny edge cases. They are counted by the ONS. Wikipedia says this: "The Heanor/Ripley and West Hallam north-western extensions have a somewhat tenuous linkage through to the core of Nottingham City largely due to ribbon development."
Probably a good argument to exclude them, but the basic principle makes good sense.
It's a chunk of a "tiny edge case" - Ripley and Heanor have 40,000 people between them.
If the chinless wonders of Whitehall think they can draw lines across the country as their grandads did around the ME, then they've got another thing coming.
But imo Starmer is better than that.
Again, I’ve twice already said that there’s a reasonable case for excluding them. Now three times!! It is the ONS that included them - not me or indeed @Pulpstar for that matter!
Yes . I'll push further and say that the whole thing is a shitbonkers methodology.
There's quite a bit of history about why things were built up that way (and this way). In recent times it was "All the rest is Green Belt, we'll have to do developement *there* because we want to protect the Green Belt." There are still echoes of that in County or "Nottingham and its area" level strategic planning documents if you read between the lines. It's one reason I am glad to see 70-years-out-of-date Green Belt maps questioned.
Before that rich people built their industry on that patch, and lived somewhere else. You can see a small echo of it in where Ashfield MPs (on their high salaries) live. Geoff Hoon lived in Breaston in the leafy Trent Valley, Gloria de Piero lived n Bagthorpe near Langley Mill - one of the more rural Ashfield villages. Lee Anderson lives in a former mining town, albeit he's moved to the posh end of it.
The gorgeous Nick Ferrari rinses Starmer. "Why are you not spending 3% of GDP on defence you surrender monkey*? "What does it feel like to be the most unpopular Prime Minister ever**?" Tomorrow on LBC's Nick Ferrari at Breakfast.
*My precis.
** Nick's actual question.
Says the Tory stoigevwho said bugger all when Tories inherited 2.5% GDP spending on 2010 and reduced it to 2% for a decade and no where bear 2.5% since 2020.
I was fighting your corner earlier, but is this post written in code?
They mean Nick Ferrari is the Tory stoigey, MP, not you.
I was confused as to where the bear fitted in too.
Always a typo or two with shecorns. Integral part of the offering.
My mother's maiden name was Unwin
And just to check, what’s the long number on the front of your card and the 3 digit code on the back?
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
It's always annoying when someone packs the programme with 'their new material', be it Engelbert Humperdink or the Church. You need to read the room. Though Oh Holy Night is a very famous carol, and has had a big pop culture impact with many contemporary artists attempting a version.
But I don't really accord with your complaint about too much Christianity. It's a Christian festival. And the kids singing the songs I am sure didn’t feel difident or conflicted about it, so I don't see why you should feel it on their behalf. If they now experience nothing of the religious meaning of Christmas, they will still have done this.
Good to see local government (potentially) being sorted out. It’s an abject mess in most places. Two-tier councils are pointless, and cities like Nottingham and Manchester have ludicrously tight boundaries that make no geographical sense and should have been expanded decades ago.
JFDI.
That scraping noise is the West Bridgford Maquis sharpening the inherited Victorinox Oyster Shuckers they have left over from 1972...
The official 'City of Nottingham' is a geographical nonsense. Its borders should be expanded to encapsulate the likes of Bridgford, Gedling even Long Eaton, Ilkeston etc which are technically in Derbyshire but part of Greater Nottingham. Should have been done decades ago.
Similar situation in Manchester and Newcastle – where parts of what is effectively the city centre are in another council area.
JFDI.
Bollocks to that. Gateshead is, and always will be, in County Durham.
Not part of Newcastle, or in any way associated with that minor county on the other side of the river.
Wrong. It's not been in County Durham for 50 years. Only contrary old-timers think that. Gateshead quayside is part and parcel of Newcastle city centre. Merge them, along with North and South Tyneside, which are equally nonsensical constructs. Should have happened decades ago.
If you called it Tyneside or Tynebank or something you would probably get away with it, not if you called it Greater Newcastle or South Northumberland
It can be called Newcastle & Tyneside, if only to satisfy a miserable handful of parochial contrary old-timers. I have family from Gateshead. Everywhere they go, they (quite reasonably) say they are from Newcastle.
Presumably people like Sandy still insist Brixton is in Surrey and Tottenham is in Hertfordshire?
In Nottingham case voters in wards in Broxtowe/Bridgford who are in financially functioning district councils whose 2nd tier is the County will be transferred to a bankrupt city under these plans.
Madness.
Their services will be woeful compared to where they now live. Libraries shut, bin collections moved to once a month and all the rest.
Nope. Those residents are part and parcel of a functioning city – they should pay their way towards it, not reside in a make-believe tax haven outside its bonkers official boundaries.
Good luck selling that message to the voters...
Sounds like they plan not to hold elections so we can't make our views known at ballot box.
This lot seem absolutely determined to make the way clear for Farage and Reform.
When you've lost them, voters are very patient when waiting to tell parties they have lost their confidence. It was clear they wanted the Tories out. Sunak waiting a further six months would likeliest have just pissed off more of them. However long you play it, there is no happy outcome. Maybe too soon to say that of Starmer, but the signs aren't good.
Nottingham's population is 768,638, according to the ONS.
Yet Nottingham City Council's population is only 323,632.
So only 42% of the city's population is captured by the council area –– that is clearly insane and should have been fixed decades ago.
P.S. It's not just Nottingham that has this problem – similar issues exist in Newcastle, Bristol, Manchester etc.
Glasgow too.
I’m not sure about Newcastle. Going East from Newcastle you go Byker, Walker, Wallsend and then North Shields, Tynemouth / Whitley Bay all of which have their own (none Newcastle) identity.
Going North it’s Newcastle until Ponteland, going south it’s immediately Gateshead.
And going West it’s Newcastle all the way to open countryside
I used to live in Heaton, in between Byker and Walker, and I don't remember anyone claiming that any of those areas were anything other than Newcastle. North Shields, Tynemouth and Whitley Bay maybe, but the inland suburbs to the east of the town centre no. Gateshead though certainly persisted in the fiction that it wasn't part of Newcastle, a fine example of the kind of boneheaded parochialism at which the north of England excels.
First post so be gentle.....
There is a wall that separates Newcastle and Sunderland. Has been there for 2000 years - why interfere with a settled position?
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
I don’t wassail either. It would be more like an ass wailing.
British Government takes MOD Housing Stock back off Rachmanesque Guy Hands Terra Firma 36000 properties for £6bn
Another unholy mess perpetrated by Major on 1996 and subject of Legal action after successive Tory Governments fecked it up still more.
Win for Servicemen Win long term as will save MOD money
For Country Not Party
Not short term bollocks Long term planning
You're not wrong.
Defence Committee today - if MOD invest to improve a property, the asset value increase accrues to the private partner, and the rent charged goes up.
Fucked up.
Who the fuck wrote that perverse contract out.
It’s an idiotic mistake to make, by civil servants out of their depth
But I doubt it was as obvious as written.
Probably it’s the case that
1. Investment by the MoD isn’t compensated 2. The properties are revalued every 12 months to calculate the total NAV of the portfolio 3. The rent charges is a fixed return on the NAV
Put it together and you get the outcome as described in the tweet. But it’s not totally obvious to an inexperienced contract person
(This is not to say that this wasn’t a f**k up by the government of the day)
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
It's always annoying when someone packs the programme with 'their new material', be it Engelbert Humperdink or the Church. You need to read the room. Though Oh Holy Night is a very famous carol, and has had a big pop culture impact with many contemporary artists attempting a version.
But I don't really accord with your complaint about too much Christianity. It's a Christian festival. And the kids singing the songs I am sure didn’t feel difident or conflicted about it, so I don't see why you should feel it on their behalf. If they now experience nothing of the religious meaning of Christmas, they will still have done this.
Thanks for posting.
I've had a look. It's a tricky event to balance because you need easy to participate for all ages, impress parents, let the choir show-off, not annoy anyone TOO much, perhaps even not be so traditional as to be 'promoting religion' and so on. It can work well or badly, and differently for different people.
Notes: ---------- Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were:
We'll sing the story of ChristmasThis is Usonian immediately post-WW2, so vaguely Bing Crosby sort of time. Something special Is this CBeebies? It is a programme with a "Hello Hello" song theme. O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Not sure on that one. The Home Alone version is everywhere. Away in a Manger Known, but it's Usonian late Victorian "Meek and Mild" nonsense, that really really irritates me. The Gift Again lots of ones called this. Shepherd's Calypso That's here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfxRVfxvZjE. That First Christmas I like this one Ring Out The Bells Ring Out? I have an inkling this maybe Ukrainian originally, but they would probably have told you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_of_the_Bells
Child in a Manger BornThis is modern, from a British couple called Mark and Helen Johnson, who specialise in music for assemblies, schools, churches etc - since 1989. ----------
It's always interesting what comforts or provokes. I've been across many traditions, and take a 1662 Anglican to a Pentecostal event, or vice versa, or a traditional Gospel Hall Protestant to a charismatic (say hands-up evangelical) do, or vice versa, and it can either be embraced as "different and interesting" or can make someone freeze, or even be repelled. Attachments to style run very deep, because the meaning runs very deep for the individuals. If something is not what we expect, it can be challenging.
It's particularly fun that typically black people clap OFF the beat, and white people clap ON the beat. That can cause chaos for a bit.
Just been to my daughter's primary school carol concert. I was somewhat ambivalent towards it. Obviously seeing my daughter singing was nice. But it did not leave me feeling Christmassy.
I'm fairly grumpy about enforced Christianity, but I'm prepared to make compromises at Christmas. I find it weird to celebrate the Northern European midwinter with imagery from the Middle East, but actually the whole cycle of a carol concert - a huge gothic church outside which the skies are dark and the night is cold; Once in Royal David's City (with the first verse sung by a solo soprano) through to Hark the Herald Angels Sing; interspersed with readings from the gospel of St, Matthew (I think?), King James edition does feel suitably Christmas. I like it. I like the music and the poetry of the language. I like the familiarity of the ritual. I like the fact that this has been an English Christmas for 400 years.
But this primary school carol concert was not that. It was Away in a Manger (fine, but speed up) plus eight songs I did not know but which felt like they had been produced by ChatGPT given the prompt "please produce a turgid, anodyne Christmas song about how wonderful Jesus/God is." It was baffling that anyone could have written any of these pieces and thought them a worthwhile addition to the cannon. Some of them had a sax solo. And it also felt slightly uncomfortable. I don't think one child in 20 at that school has the sort of positive feelings about God or Jesus that the songs feebly attempted to encourage. It's not a CofE school. 30% of the school is Asian or North African. I don't want to come across all woke, but it was hard to see what function this was fulfilling.
I'm not saying there can't be religion in a school Christmas performance, but it can't be all there is. You also need tradition, or humour, or musical excellence, or, well, something to make it worthwhile.
What were the songs, out of interest? (Two or three titles would be enough.)
Schools with no basis in it trying to perform religion sometimes does not work well - it can be a kind of dad-dancing, like an English person trying to talk French, which they stopped learning at age 12, from memory, 30 years later.
Equally it can sometimes be a carol concert not meeting befuddled audience expectations.
(That's the skeptical side, it can also be good - or others have a different set of expectations and experiences.)
Tricky stuff . Have you gone a-wassailing yet, this year?
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were: We'll sing the story of Christmas Something special O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Away in a Manger The Gift Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair]. That First Christmas Ring Out Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
It's always annoying when someone packs the programme with 'their new material', be it Engelbert Humperdink or the Church. You need to read the room. Though Oh Holy Night is a very famous carol, and has had a big pop culture impact with many contemporary artists attempting a version.
But I don't really accord with your complaint about too much Christianity. It's a Christian festival. And the kids singing the songs I am sure didn’t feel difident or conflicted about it, so I don't see why you should feel it on their behalf. If they now experience nothing of the religious meaning of Christmas, they will still have done this.
You never get new songs with Englebert.
His "Last Waltz" btw kept the Beatles' monumental double A side, Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane, off the number 1 spot.
When our daughter was at college, she had a muslim boyfriend for a number of years. We had him, and a number of his friends who weren’t able to go home to Bahrain, etc, for Christmas dinner. We bought a halal turkey, which was excellent.
Yes, I often invite stray doctors in our department for Christmas dinner if rotas prevent them from getting back to their own families. I have had Muslims, Greeks and Hindus. No pigs in Blankets for the Muslims of course.
When our daughter was at college, she had a muslim boyfriend for a number of years. We had him, and a number of his friends who weren’t able to go home to Bahrain, etc, for Christmas dinner. We bought a halal turkey, which was excellent.
Yes, I often invite stray doctors in our department for Christmas dinner if rotas prevent them from getting back to their own families. I have had Muslims, Greeks and Hindus. No pigs in Blankets for the Muslims of course.
Comments
I have a vicar friend who reckons this nonsense, and that our interpretation of the Bible is all wrong, and actually the circumstances were triumphant. He's probably right. But I'd argue the story is actually more important that the actuality, and the story is of hope out of adversity.
Those on charge of the campaign most furious should be ashamed that they actually encouraged many to think they may get 6 years full pension refund.
It was never going to be more than an ex gratia payment of a few grand.
It wasn't budgeted for, like blood scandal and post office were in past Reeves budget so the writing was on the wall. Tories palpavly failed to fund any of the three.
I though Labour would find something over 3 to 4 years and am surprised they haven't, ecpecially on a day when they announce they will add Capture, pre horizon cases to the PO investigation and find it.
They will be hammered for this in all MSM the timing is cynical.
Politically a bad move, economically a sound move....
Pensioners will be hoping triple lock remains and from somewhere Labour can find some sweeteners on coming 5 years
We'll sing the story of Christmas
Something special
O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.]
Away in a Manger
The Gift
Shepherd's Calypso [done with some skill by the choir, this, to be fair].
That First Christmas
Ring Out
Child in a Manger Born
But yes - Dad dancing exactly.
I don't tend to wassail. Too self conscious about singing. But I'm not averse to others doing it, when done well.
(Incidentally, I recently found out the original meaning of the a- suffix. It means to go on and on. i.e. in this case a lot of wassailing. It then got coopted by poets for use when an extra syllable is needed.)
Yes. The weird obsession with community engagement needs to end. You only engage ninbys with time on their hands not actual working people who would benefit.
Not ill-meant, just terribly, terribly misguided.
My question - how will the public react to this ?
Probably much depends on how Trump fares in US in 2025
Or didn't they give a monkey's about our chiropteric cousins or lawyers or other vermin?
He is hell bent on destroying the UK and any other democracy whose Leader he can't pull the strings of.
However, I expect anger from them and isn't Ed Davey very much supportive of them ?
NEW THREAD
… to sell us to the highest bidder
The other two matters should have been funded and shame on them for not doing so.
Fury or not they have lost. State pension is a benefit not an entitlement.
They can be hammered in the press all they,like, it won’t change anything. The minor parties will still demand money for these people and if the Lib Dems ever got a chance of power in coalition they’d drop any commitment as fast as you could say ‘tuition fees’.
We really have no way of knowing how this pans out through 2025 and beyond
Thats not for me but the Church thinks it's
the way to go.
There is still the original Book of Common Prayer Service mainly 8am H Communion if Common Wordship is the main Service.and it's a said service with no hymns usually.
You can always find a traditional church with a traditional service by consulting the Prayer Book Society which will direct you to the nearest BCP Church.
https://www.pbs.org.uk/
For the same reason I'd quarrel with evaluations such as "our interpretation" and "all wrong"; the various interpretations are different views, which are to be expected in an NT written for the many different types of community making up the Roman Empire.
I was quite interested that Kemi quoted "The parable of the talents" as her favourite, which is about good stewardship of what you (have been given), and what the warning of a bad servant who is chucked out. But OTOH the master is an absentee landlord, and there are lots of awkward questions for that character to answer especially in 2024, and other parables about that.
Equally the form of the community in Acts has been taken as an inspiration for a Christian Communism.
There's quite a bit of history about why things were built up that way (and this way). In recent times it was "All the rest is Green Belt, we'll have to do developement *there* because we want to protect the Green Belt." There are still echoes of that in County or "Nottingham and its area" level strategic planning documents if you read between the lines. It's one reason I am glad to see 70-years-out-of-date Green Belt maps questioned.
Before that rich people built their industry on that patch, and lived somewhere else. You can see a small echo of it in where Ashfield MPs (on their high salaries) live. Geoff Hoon lived in Breaston in the leafy Trent Valley, Gloria de Piero lived n Bagthorpe near Langley Mill - one of the more rural Ashfield villages. Lee Anderson lives in a former mining town, albeit he's moved to the posh end of it.
But I don't really accord with your complaint about too much Christianity. It's a Christian festival. And the kids singing the songs I am sure didn’t feel difident or conflicted about it, so I don't see why you should feel it on their behalf. If they now experience nothing of the religious meaning of Christmas, they will still have done this.
There is a wall that separates Newcastle and Sunderland. Has been there for 2000 years - why interfere with a settled position?
But I doubt it was as obvious as written.
Probably it’s the case that
1. Investment by the MoD isn’t compensated
2. The properties are revalued every 12 months to calculate the total NAV of the portfolio
3. The rent charges is a fixed return on the NAV
Put it together and you get the outcome as described in the tweet. But it’s not totally obvious to an inexperienced contract person
(This is not to say that this wasn’t a f**k up by the government of the day)
I've had a look. It's a tricky event to balance because you need easy to participate for all ages, impress parents, let the choir show-off, not annoy anyone TOO much, perhaps even not be so traditional as to be 'promoting religion' and so on. It can work well or badly, and differently for different people.
Notes:
----------
Ha - I knew keeping the programme would help! The songs were:
We'll sing the story of ChristmasThis is Usonian immediately post-WW2, so vaguely Bing Crosby sort of time.
Something special Is this CBeebies? It is a programme with a "Hello Hello" song theme.
O Holy Night [I thought I'd recognise this, but I didn't. It wasn't the song out of Home Alone.] Not sure on that one. The Home Alone version is everywhere.
Away in a Manger Known, but it's Usonian late Victorian "Meek and Mild" nonsense, that really really irritates me.
The Gift Again lots of ones called this.
Shepherd's Calypso That's here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfxRVfxvZjE.
That First Christmas I like this one
Ring Out The Bells Ring Out? I have an inkling this maybe Ukrainian originally, but they would probably have told you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_of_the_Bells
Child in a Manger BornThis is modern, from a British couple called Mark and Helen Johnson, who specialise in music for assemblies, schools, churches etc - since 1989.
----------
It's always interesting what comforts or provokes. I've been across many traditions, and take a 1662 Anglican to a Pentecostal event, or vice versa, or a traditional Gospel Hall Protestant to a charismatic (say hands-up evangelical) do, or vice versa, and it can either be embraced as "different and interesting" or can make someone freeze, or even be repelled. Attachments to style run very deep, because the meaning runs very deep for the individuals. If something is not what we expect, it can be challenging.
It's particularly fun that typically black people clap OFF the beat, and white people clap ON the beat. That can cause chaos for a bit.
I quite like silence sometimes
His "Last Waltz" btw kept the Beatles' monumental double A side, Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane, off the number 1 spot.
And deservedly so. It was even better.