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Father Christmas is being cancelled in the UK. – politicalbetting.com

135

Comments

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Cookie said:

    Eabhal said:

    Chat GPT provides a not entirely insane 112 English unitary authorities. It allocates them each a broader area which would fit a Mayor.

    Does it give a map? I love this sort of shit, my earlier comment notwithstanding.
    Sadly not.

    AI IS USELESS.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    As President Elect, who will be Prez in 5 weeks, Trump has surely been briefed on the reality behind the drones. If it was all nothing he would, at least drop hints on that, or laugh it off

    He is not laughing it off. He is flat out saying there is something going on, and the government knows and the government is unwilling to tell the US people
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited December 16
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    John Rentoul is right. Where is the clamour for ending district councils?

    Or they could just merge district councils responsibilities into Town or Parish councils and keep county councils as is which would be far more popular than these new unitaries will be and with stronger local links
    Popular how? County councils are not popular, and indeed will cover larger areas than some new unitaries might (eg Surrey County Council is so large it surely will contain at least 2 unitaries, of smaller area and thus stronger local links)

    And I hate to harp on this point, but just how do you expect a parish council of 150 people to take on district council responsibilities? It remains government policy (until they remember to look at it again at least) to have more parishes emerge, not fewer, so there's not going to a consolidation of them (nor would it even work, given how many and how small many are).

    Again, I think there are some real issues with the proposals, and welcome stronger powers for towns and parishes, but hinging opposition to it on the 'popularity' of districts or counties is just laughable in its misunderstanding of how people react to their local councils.

    So many people do not know anything about local councils, I've had relatively senior people in local government itself ask if General Elections mean local councils change control as well. The average resident has no chance.
    County councils are more popular than District councils in my experience and Parish or Town councils more popular than both.

    Most District council employees would become Town council employees with a few joining Parish councils if they were merged with Parish or Town councils.

    It would also mean a stronger local council for the one closest to you ie based in your nearest town or village
    Most district council employees would become town council employees? You must have some enormous town council organisations round your way, given the scale of district council staff you expect them to take on.

    And you will know mnay parish councils have no staff, or a single full or part time employee in many cases, especially the small ones.

    So under your plans the towns and parishes owuld need to dramatically increase their precept to pay for staff - do you think that would affect their 'popularity' at all?

    Especially as some big towns in the country bring in millions (104 according to the SLCC), and given the reaction in my county, people do not like that they pay so much to the towns. Raising that at all will not be popular, as many parish councils see keeping precept low as their main goal (much to frustration of unitary cllrs and districts/counties, sometimes0.

    There are 10,245 parishes in England, 8,881 of which issue a precept.
    The average Band D parish precept is £79.71, an increase of £4.90, or 6.5% from 2022-23.
    5,610 councils have precepts exceeding £10,000, down from 5,638 in 2022-23
    846 councils have precepts exceeding £200,000, up from 781 in 2022-23
    308 councils have precepts exceeding £500,000, up from 281 in 2022-23
    104 councils have precepts exceeding £1M, up from 83 in 2022-23

    https://www.slcc.co.uk/parish-precepts-2023-24/
    There are multiple town councils and masses of Parish councils in district council areas so district council employees would be split between them to take on their extra responsibilities. District council precept would be scrapped so overall council tax payers would be 0 extra
    You are deeply confusing me.

    Are you suggesting that towns and parishes would raise their precepts to match the district council amount which will no longer exist, and they could do that without losing popularity somehow? As if residents will perform a mental calculation that they are no worse off, rather than seeing that their local parish precept has gone up by 500% (that is easily possible, with very low starting precepts).

    And none of this even touches upon that most parish councils would not want to do that. You must know many parish councils - I am sure some take in more than the bear minimum in precept in order to pay for things in their parish, but plenty others surely do not. I certainly know many like that.

    You have a dream for towns and parishes, which is nice, but given they mostly don't take advantage of the powers they already have, it seems unlikely they'd be capable of doing way more than they do now.
    As overall council tax take would be unchanged yes as Parish and Town councils would just add on the amount DCs previously charged.

    Or you could scrap DCs and split responsibilities, so county councils take on Local Plans and most planning and leisure centres and parish and town councils museums and bin collection
    And you think most parish councils currently charging £10-20 per year, as some do, want to add on the DC amount to their own books, and take action relating to it?

    Many councils have a maximum of 5 councillors (the minimum permitted), would that need to be increased through a mass series of community governance reviews? And many struggle to fill that many, hence so many councils not having contested elections. Indeed, it is not unheard of for no-one to put themselves forward at all and reruns needing to be raised. The principal authority can appoint people to serve as temporary councillors, but that is not sustainable, what if nobody or not enough in a village of 200 people wants to sit on the council, who then runs it? You don't have that risk with districts and counties.
    Well of course if they take on some DC services.

    The scrapped DC council allowances would also be used to fund Parish and Town councillor allowances for the first time, so more would stand as they would get paid for being councillors even at Parish or Town level
    Technically parish councillors can receive an allowance now, though very few do (I'm aware of some towns which provide some minor amounts), and I do think even a very small amount would encourage more people. Purely volunteering vs a nominal amount to encourage the volunteering, the latter could actually be very effective.

    But you'd need it to, as most do not want to do more in their parishes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    HYUFD said:

    John Rentoul is right. Where is the clamour for ending district councils?

    Or they could just merge district councils responsibilities into Town or Parish councils and keep county councils as is which would be far more popular than these new unitaries will be and with stronger local links
    They work OK here although there have been discussions in order to merge a few more. For example Cardiff and the Vale. Although the Vale was keener to join with Bridgend. I don't want to join with Bridgend!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 16

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Mass graves in Syria on C4 news right now.

    Well, that takes the wind out of my local government talk.
    Sharp comparisons pointing out a sense of perspective are good reminders. It is one reason why I may never vote Green in a national election, because their sense of perspective is wobbly on non-environmental (and some environmental) questions.

    Back when Jean Charles de Menezes was killed by the Met in error, the occasionally Bonkers Baroness, Jenny Jones, was out there rhetorically comparing the Met to the Syrian Secret Police. I agree with her on a lot of things, as will be obvious, but she also has too many araignees dans sa plafond.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
    It makes you wanna shout.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
  • kle4 said:

    I'm a big fan of parishes as a tier of local government, but the idea they could all take on serious responsibilities is asking an awful lot of them.

    Would you trust the Dibley Parish Council with serious responsibilities? Could they do it even if you did trust them?

    There's not much that second-tier districts do. Council housing, refuse and street cleaning, car parks, planning, council tax and electoral admin, parks and recreation... That's about it.

    Discretionary planning is largely on the way out, the admin is computerised, much of the rest is a bundle of contracts.

    So that leaves unitaries the size of a small county to do the stuff that's expensive to do. And parishes and towns to do the nice stuff (flower beds, community halls, Christmas lunch for the seniors) and the civic stuff (a Town Mayor to do lots of photo opportunities). Stuff that doesn't really matter, doesn't cost much, doesn't need to be partisan, but makes the area feel nicer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Unless the entire US military has gone mad - or is engaged in a humongous psy-op - then this is NOT misidentified planes, there is a kernel of reality here, which no can explain, or no one is willing toexplain
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335
    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
    The fragrant Clare Grogan from a few years earlier must be sixty if she's a day.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
    It makes you wanna shout.
    It does. And just sigh, wistfully, at the brevity of youth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
    This is not just one airbase. From the same report:


    "Still, as we have reported in the past, there are several confirmed drone sightings in New Jersey reported by trained observers at Picatinny and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. A Coast Guard vessel off New Jersey also had a recent encounter with what it called “multiple low-altitude aircraft.” U.S. officials are still trying to discover the origin of drones that appeared over four U.S. Air Force bases in the U.K., a story we first broke. They’ve been spotted over RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and RAF Feltwell, all within close proximity, and RAF Fairford, about 130 miles to the west."

    A few days ago, Ramstein Air Base in Germany joined the growing list of places registering unknown drone overflights."


    Yes, it could still be a flap, but it is now a flap of quite astonishing proportions and duration, if so. And Trump's reaction tells me that there is more to this. He has surely been briefed on the truth, and if there is one thing he hates it is looking like a stupid loser. I don't think he would say this stuff if he didn't have reason to say it

  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
    The fragrant Clare Grogan from a few years earlier must be sixty if she's a day.
    Oh god make it stop.
    Yes, she was half a generation previous.

    A quick Google says 62. She has aged very well indeed, mind.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Lead item on ITN the Chinese spy/lobbyist

    Charlene White to Peston "this is a massive problem for Sir Keir Starmer isn't it"

    Cue Peston

    2 minutes of anti SKS bull rap, ignoring the pictures on the suspects desk of him with the Camerons and the Mays and Prince Andrew.

    Utterly biased, not telling the facts and basically turning it in to another anti Starmer rant whilst completely ignoring the past 14 years and overwhelming failure of security services under Cameron, May, Johnson and Truss.

    Chill out tim
    If shecorns is tim I'll eat my hat. It's leon.
    She/he is neither - just a poorly trained Labour intern
    You have got a real problem with this poster. You are very hostile. Do you think they were perhaps involved in a curry scandal in Durham in the summer of 2021?
    Not really - just making a fair comment
    Shecorns88 reminds me of a poster from about 15 years ago called Chamereon, who so despised Tories that he could barely bring himself to post about them without abuse or slander. (At least, that's how I remember his posts). Even his handle was an attemot to crowbar the names 'Cameron' and 'Chameleon' into a portmanteau word.
    And thus we learned, in effect, nothing more than "Chamereon doesn't like Tories".
    Though at least with Shecorns 88 we have also learned, surprisingly, of her disdain for Ray Wilkins.
    Way too butch for me..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
    The fragrant Clare Grogan from a few years earlier must be sixty if she's a day.
    Oh god make it stop.
    Yes, she was half a generation previous.

    A quick Google says 62. She has aged very well indeed, mind.
    Ah ye gods. She was my pin-up when I were a lad. Fancied her rotten
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    Duck and cover, boss.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
    This is not just one airbase. From the same report:


    "Still, as we have reported in the past, there are several confirmed drone sightings in New Jersey reported by trained observers at Picatinny and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. A Coast Guard vessel off New Jersey also had a recent encounter with what it called “multiple low-altitude aircraft.” U.S. officials are still trying to discover the origin of drones that appeared over four U.S. Air Force bases in the U.K., a story we first broke. They’ve been spotted over RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and RAF Feltwell, all within close proximity, and RAF Fairford, about 130 miles to the west."

    A few days ago, Ramstein Air Base in Germany joined the growing list of places registering unknown drone overflights."


    Yes, it could still be a flap, but it is now a flap of quite astonishing proportions and duration, if so. And Trump's reaction tells me that there is more to this. He has surely been briefed on the truth, and if there is one thing he hates it is looking like a stupid loser. I don't think he would say this stuff if he didn't have reason to say it

    Who are these trained observers? And what training do they have?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    edited December 16

    Lead item on ITN the Chinese spy/lobbyist

    Charlene White to Peston "this is a massive problem for Sir Keir Starmer isn't it"

    Cue Peston

    2 minutes of anti SKS bull rap, ignoring the pictures on the suspects desk of him with the Camerons and the Mays and Prince Andrew.

    Utterly biased, not telling the facts and basically turning it in to another anti Starmer rant whilst completely ignoring the past 14 years and overwhelming failure of security services under Cameron, May, Johnson and Truss.

    Chill out tim
    The problem for Starmer is this has come out just weeks before he was glad handing President Xi and apparently Reeves is visiting China next year
    As soon as January, I believe.
    Well that will be embarrassing!!
    Stop it. I’m splitting my sides. 😂

    My mum has bought every ounce of Tory Party spin for the last 3 decades, but not even she is buying this.

    What the serious flipperty fuck - as Leon might say.

    The Political Party so in bed with Chinese Money and Chinese Spy’s they handed over everything to them, from pub chains to power stations, and helped them get the contracts for surveillance camera’s across our country spying on us, and Chinese supplying both our military and security networks, are trying to make out this exposé of their own behaviour and too cosy relationships with the Chinese government, is a problem for Starmer and Labour?

    🤣

    This will make it much harder to cosy up to China no matter the previous relationship

    Chris Patten was scathing about Starmer in his interview on Sky and he knows this subject inside out
    “This will make it much harder to cosy up to China, and that’s a disaaaaaaster for Labour.”

    Thank goodness if no cosying up with them under Labour! We should never have been cosying up with them under the Conservatives, is the point you haven’t got yet, so I don’t understand where you are coming from. It’s like you calling the good thing a bad thing, whilst the bad thing was no thing.

    Under the last Conservative government in bed with Chinese spies and influencers, China supplying both our military and security networks and vital national infrastructure like power grid, on government contracts.

    This news story of past mistakes will have no impact on the Tories you can think of? Remember the chilling words that escalates a scandal into something much bigger and necessitates enquiries and lots of media traction. “Wait. There’s a pattern developing here.”
    The Conservative Party was in love with Putin’s money at the same time as in bed with China, government policy influenced also from the Russian influencers and spies and money?

    Those photographs on the news today are absolutely horrible, 🫣

    All that cosying up wasn’t happening in a vacuum at the time, was it? It’s the influence on government foreign policy the inquiries will likely be set up to get the bottom of. Cash for silence.

    What Chinese tend not to know is, when i’m around them, I can understand their native tongue, so I know what they are saying when they say “these westerners all look the same to me, the round eyed b*******.” 😂
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    Well this is site about politics and we've just had the president elect of the USA accuse the present administation of lying about one of the biggest mysteries in years

    Also, who the fuck DOESN'T like a big fat mystery in the sky? It's delicious
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
    This is not just one airbase. From the same report:


    "Still, as we have reported in the past, there are several confirmed drone sightings in New Jersey reported by trained observers at Picatinny and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. A Coast Guard vessel off New Jersey also had a recent encounter with what it called “multiple low-altitude aircraft.” U.S. officials are still trying to discover the origin of drones that appeared over four U.S. Air Force bases in the U.K., a story we first broke. They’ve been spotted over RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and RAF Feltwell, all within close proximity, and RAF Fairford, about 130 miles to the west."

    A few days ago, Ramstein Air Base in Germany joined the growing list of places registering unknown drone overflights."


    Yes, it could still be a flap, but it is now a flap of quite astonishing proportions and duration, if so. And Trump's reaction tells me that there is more to this. He has surely been briefed on the truth, and if there is one thing he hates it is looking like a stupid loser. I don't think he would say this stuff if he didn't have reason to say it

    Who are these trained observers? And what training do they have?
    They're military personnel at a US airforce base, or RAF bases. Pretty much their entire job is staring at the sky, looking for threats

    So I give them more credence than some drunk guy in Jersey City misidentifying planes heading for JFK (which is definitely happening a lot, as that same report says)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    Oh, you. Bless.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    As Bertie might say.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    Even I am older than I was then. What's going on?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
    This is not just one airbase. From the same report:


    "Still, as we have reported in the past, there are several confirmed drone sightings in New Jersey reported by trained observers at Picatinny and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. A Coast Guard vessel off New Jersey also had a recent encounter with what it called “multiple low-altitude aircraft.” U.S. officials are still trying to discover the origin of drones that appeared over four U.S. Air Force bases in the U.K., a story we first broke. They’ve been spotted over RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and RAF Feltwell, all within close proximity, and RAF Fairford, about 130 miles to the west."

    A few days ago, Ramstein Air Base in Germany joined the growing list of places registering unknown drone overflights."


    Yes, it could still be a flap, but it is now a flap of quite astonishing proportions and duration, if so. And Trump's reaction tells me that there is more to this. He has surely been briefed on the truth, and if there is one thing he hates it is looking like a stupid loser. I don't think he would say this stuff if he didn't have reason to say it

    Who are these trained observers? And what training do they have?
    They're military personnel at a US airforce base, or RAF bases. Pretty much their entire job is staring at the sky, looking for threats

    So I give them more credence than some drunk guy in Jersey City misidentifying planes heading for JFK (which is definitely happening a lot, as that same report says)
    And they are not just the latest batch of trainee airforce crew on late night guard duty looking up? Seriously? Lakenheath/Rendlesham was the guards on watch at night, if I recall correctly.

    I may be wrong in all this. But it all just smacks of a self sustaining flap, and I give very little credence to (a) Trump and (b) Military spokesmen.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Indeed, I had a quick look at the research on the inheritance tax exemption changes and I think it's correct that more money will be lost from behavioural changes than will be raised by the tax. What bothers me is that no one did this beforehand, so the government is left with ploughing on and damaging the economy and family run businesses or they have an embarrassing climb down. It's about as bad as Liz Truss right now, indeed the first Labour budget leaves is with more borrowing than Liz Truss called for.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    They are Gay Trans Illegal Immigrant Alien AI Drones.

    Obviously.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Some of the unintended consequences could be unexpectedly positive too.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Personally I would rather abolish the County Council and keep the District Council.

    The government's preferred number of 1/2 a million per unitary does not, unless I'm mistaken, explain why that is more beneficial. Feels very 'plucked out of a drawer in Whitehall', plenty of existing unitaries are not that big.
    Wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that there was a vague upwards 'regrading' if you were a Whitehall civil servant "responsible for" 1/2 million or more people in an area.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
    This is not just one airbase. From the same report:


    "Still, as we have reported in the past, there are several confirmed drone sightings in New Jersey reported by trained observers at Picatinny and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. A Coast Guard vessel off New Jersey also had a recent encounter with what it called “multiple low-altitude aircraft.” U.S. officials are still trying to discover the origin of drones that appeared over four U.S. Air Force bases in the U.K., a story we first broke. They’ve been spotted over RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and RAF Feltwell, all within close proximity, and RAF Fairford, about 130 miles to the west."

    A few days ago, Ramstein Air Base in Germany joined the growing list of places registering unknown drone overflights."


    Yes, it could still be a flap, but it is now a flap of quite astonishing proportions and duration, if so. And Trump's reaction tells me that there is more to this. He has surely been briefed on the truth, and if there is one thing he hates it is looking like a stupid loser. I don't think he would say this stuff if he didn't have reason to say it

    Who are these trained observers? And what training do they have?
    They're military personnel at a US airforce base, or RAF bases. Pretty much their entire job is staring at the sky, looking for threats

    So I give them more credence than some drunk guy in Jersey City misidentifying planes heading for JFK (which is definitely happening a lot, as that same report says)
    And they are not just the latest batch of trainee airforce crew on late night guard duty looking up? Seriously? Lakenheath/Rendlesham was the guards on watch at night, if I recall correctly.

    I may be wrong in all this. But it all just smacks of a self sustaining flap, and I give very little credence to (a) Trump and (b) Military spokesmen.
    You could be right, still

    But there is lots of evidence you're not, yet none of it is conclusive

    My best guess


    15% chance this is psy-ops
    15% chance this is some hi tech stuff they want to hide (but have to train?)
    15% chance this is training for some disaster (see public reaction?)
    15% chance this is an actual disaster they are trying to avert (the nuke theory)
    15% chance this is a flap
    25% chance all the other whacko theories: China, pranksters, Russia, interdimensions, a space time glitch, aliens, God, or we are in the Simulation
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    LFGSS (a cycling forum) is just going to shut up shop entirely: https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/ I suspect a lot of smaller fora might follow in their footsteps.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    What are our duties under this new unfreespeech regime? Is it like a superinjunction, where we can't even say that X has happened, or can I say that "X has happened but under OSA I can't discuss it"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 16

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    I once kissed a 16-17 year old Rachel Weisz

    *sobs quietly, alone*

    THIS is what she looked like, then

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Fancast/comments/1cz78o1/what_dc_character_could_young_rachel_weisz_have/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    viewcode said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    What are our duties under this new unfreespeech regime? Is it like a superinjunction, where we can't even say that X has happened, or can I say that "X has happened but under OSA I can't discuss it"
    (narrator: the OSA was introduced under a Conservative Government and is not being repealed under a Labour Govt. Vote accordingly)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Can we not move PB to the US?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    A clip of a recent performance:

    https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewmoore30/video/7432960739930836257
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    Foxy said:

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    Even I am older than I was then. What's going on?
    I'm not.

    *checks mirror*

    What happened?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    Leon said:

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    I once kissed a 16-17 year old Rachel Weisz

    *sobs quietly, alone*

    THIS is what she looked like, then

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Fancast/comments/1cz78o1/what_dc_character_could_young_rachel_weisz_have/
    I once literally bumped into Kurt Cobain. Nothing sexual happened. Though I did apologise (as did he - the minx).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Indeed, I had a quick look at the research on the inheritance tax exemption changes and I think it's correct that more money will be lost from behavioural changes than will be raised by the tax. What bothers me is that no one did this beforehand, so the government is left with ploughing on and damaging the economy and family run businesses or they have an embarrassing climb down. It's about as bad as Liz Truss right now, indeed the first Labour budget leaves is with more borrowing than Liz Truss called for.
    Yes; for farmers though there would, unless tweaked, be some hard cases for a few years while the 7 year rule works itself in (farmers never needed to bother) in general they will, despite the talk, avoid the tax.

    As for billionaires buying up rural counties to avoid IHT; no doubt other tricks are around - not least the 7 year rule - but has it occurred to the government that it still has the attractions of attracting tax at 20% in place of 40% for everyone else.

    IHT is so ludicrous, random and capricious that it should be abolished and replaced with low level assets taxes without exemptions.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    I once kissed a 16-17 year old Rachel Weisz

    *sobs quietly, alone*

    THIS is what she looked like, then

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Fancast/comments/1cz78o1/what_dc_character_could_young_rachel_weisz_have/
    I once literally bumped into Kurt Cobain. Nothing sexual happened. Though I did apologise (as did he - the minx).
    Cameron Diaz, at the peak of her beauty, once handed me a beer

    I was at a party in LA, a very posh post-Oscars party, but I was more interested in having a beer, so I asked the girl near the massive fridge to "hand me a beer, please?" and she did and then I looked up and she gave me that smile and I realised it was Cameron Diaz

    *genuinely crying, now*
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    edited December 16
    Just sat down on the Northern Line at Embankment and a older bloke sitting next to me said on his phone quite loudly "I've just been speaking in the Lords about football". Nice to live in a country where members of the upper house still use public transport. Probably isn't true in many countries.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    LFGSS (a cycling forum) is just going to shut up shop entirely: https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/401475/ I suspect a lot of smaller fora might follow in their footsteps.
    The guy does mention contributing to the code behind Vanilla. So perhaps he is a wrong'un.

    (More seriously - sad times. I'm sure there's more to come. The informed will at least close down before they are picked off)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,032
    We're watching the Netflix docudrama on Winston Churchill and it's got great production values but it's definitely made for an American audience. It's so overly dramatic and the American commentators are a bit useless tbh, not sure what George Bush adds to the conversation.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,744
    I don't think I've ever heard a kid say "Father Christmas". Almost certainly not outside of a schmaltzy movie.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ...

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    A clip of a recent performance:

    https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewmoore30/video/7432960739930836257
    Yes. In the 1989 video of "I Don't Care" she's stunning. Mind you everything else they ever did was unlistenable.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,807
    Leon said:

    As President Elect, who will be Prez in 5 weeks, Trump has surely been briefed on the reality behind the drones. If it was all nothing he would, at least drop hints on that, or laugh it off

    He is not laughing it off. He is flat out saying there is something going on, and the government knows and the government is unwilling to tell the US people

    It's sorry and tawdry end to the whole UAP saga. It was always a load of Government drones up there to gaslight people (exactly as I said at the very beginning) - according to that Twitter thread, one reason is because they want more powers over private drone flights. Standard MO. Good luck to Trump cleansing the state of these people.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,330
    edited December 16

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893

    NB in that story:

    “I can confirm small aerial systems were spotted over Wright-Patterson between Friday night and Saturday morning,” base spokesman Bob Purtiman told The War Zone on Sunday in response to our questions about the sightings. “Today leaders have determined that they did not impact base residents, facilities, or assets. The Air Force is taking all appropriate measures to safeguard our installations and residents.”

    The drones “ranged in sizes and configurations,” Purtiman said. “Our units are working with local authorities to ensure the safety of base personnel, facilities, and assets.”

    ‘Most of the New Jersey drone sightings were misidentified, so it is notable that the ones spotted over Wright Patterson, as with the other U.S. military installations, were seen by trained observers that are equipped with high-end gear to maintain security and to discriminate between friend and foe.’
    Oh good we are back at trained observers again. Why on Earth do you believe anything coming out of Trumps mouth? He is a complete and utter arse who lies and blusters his way through life. And to remind you again, Gatwick was closed with no evidence of an actual drone ever being found. Who says that didn’t happen at Wright Patterson?
    This is not just one airbase. From the same report:


    "Still, as we have reported in the past, there are several confirmed drone sightings in New Jersey reported by trained observers at Picatinny and Naval Weapons Station Earle in New Jersey. A Coast Guard vessel off New Jersey also had a recent encounter with what it called “multiple low-altitude aircraft.” U.S. officials are still trying to discover the origin of drones that appeared over four U.S. Air Force bases in the U.K., a story we first broke. They’ve been spotted over RAF Lakenheath, RAF Mildenhall, and RAF Feltwell, all within close proximity, and RAF Fairford, about 130 miles to the west."

    A few days ago, Ramstein Air Base in Germany joined the growing list of places registering unknown drone overflights."


    Yes, it could still be a flap, but it is now a flap of quite astonishing proportions and duration, if so. And Trump's reaction tells me that there is more to this. He has surely been briefed on the truth, and if there is one thing he hates it is looking like a stupid loser. I don't think he would say this stuff if he didn't have reason to say it

    Who are these trained observers? And what training do they have?
    I'm struck by the idea that air defence in the modern era comprises sitting out, sometimes in the dark, with a pair of binoculars like the Observer Corps in the Battle of Britain and the Blitz.

    http://www.daveswarbirds.com/bob/pics/cards/card-26.jpg
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,030
    Everything is going to end up as part of the Greater Reddit Co-Prosperity Sphere - and the net will be far worse for it.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    I don't think I've ever heard a kid say "Father Christmas". Almost certainly not outside of a schmaltzy movie.

    A stern word is had with my kids if they get too American. This includes "Santa Claus." Father Christmas all the way in the Cookie household.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 16

    Leon said:

    As President Elect, who will be Prez in 5 weeks, Trump has surely been briefed on the reality behind the drones. If it was all nothing he would, at least drop hints on that, or laugh it off

    He is not laughing it off. He is flat out saying there is something going on, and the government knows and the government is unwilling to tell the US people

    It's sorry and tawdry end to the whole UAP saga. It was always a load of Government drones up there to gaslight people (exactly as I said at the very beginning) - according to that Twitter thread, one reason is because they want more powers over private drone flights. Standard MO. Good luck to Trump cleansing the state of these people.
    I've heard that theory too, it's some gaslighting job to tighten the laws as a consequence. I don't buy it
  • Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    Ignoring the hate provisions, say you were a guy boasting on PB about using prostitutes then you and potentially PB would be on hook because sheer number of prostitutes that are under age/trafficked/groomed/enslaved because said guy and PB could be enabling a harm.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    Ignoring the hate provisions, say you were a guy boasting on PB about using prostitutes then you and potentially PB would be on hook because sheer number of prostitutes that are under age/trafficked/groomed/enslaved because said guy and PB could be enabling a harm.
    Lucky I'm a living saint, in that case
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    Cookie said:

    I don't think I've ever heard a kid say "Father Christmas". Almost certainly not outside of a schmaltzy movie.

    A stern word is had with my kids if they get too American. This includes "Santa Claus." Father Christmas all the way in the Cookie household.
    I've also never heard a single person say 'Father Christmas' in real life. I thought it was the kind of thing you hired Brian Blessed to say in a John Lewis advert.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So much harmless commentary *could* be seen as illegal under all those provisions, if you really wanted to pursue it

    That could actually be the end of sites like PB
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't think I've ever heard a kid say "Father Christmas". Almost certainly not outside of a schmaltzy movie.

    A stern word is had with my kids if they get too American. This includes "Santa Claus." Father Christmas all the way in the Cookie household.
    I've also never heard a single person say 'Father Christmas' in real life. I thought it was the kind of thing you hired Brian Blessed to say in a John Lewis advert.
    Greg Lake?
  • carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    RobD said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Can we not move PB to the US?
    HY would explode.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    edited December 16

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    The last time I used a lawyer, for intellectual property, about 15 years ago, they quoted £600 ph but charged me £300 ph on the basis I was a "new client". I suspect that £300 was the rate for everyone, and £600 was the "piss off" rate. I suppose those figures would now be £500/£1000.

    They did bill in 6 min / 10-per-hour segments though, so reviewing a perfunctory email reply was "only" £30.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    Their sock and shoe bill alone would make you a regular person blush.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,987
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    The last time I used a lawyer, for intellectual property, about 15 years ago, they quoted £600 ph but charged me £300 ph on the basis I was a "new client". I suspect that £300 was the rate for everyone, and £600 was the "piss off" rate. I suppose those figures would now be £500/£1000.

    They did bill in 6 min / 10-per-hour segments though, so reviewing a perfunctory email reply was "only" £30.
    Come, brave ChatGPT. Sweep all before you and then recommend an especially long Radiohead track to relax to.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,835
    ohnotnow said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    The last time I used a lawyer, for intellectual property, about 15 years ago, they quoted £600 ph but charged me £300 ph on the basis I was a "new client". I suspect that £300 was the rate for everyone, and £600 was the "piss off" rate. I suppose those figures would now be £500/£1000.

    They did bill in 6 min / 10-per-hour segments though, so reviewing a perfunctory email reply was "only" £30.
    Come, brave ChatGPT. Sweep all before you and then recommend an especially long Radiohead track to relax to.
    The worst part was they only confirmed what I already thought. But that's still work.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    I once took a piss next to Josh from Casualty in a pub in Bristol.

    Didn't fancy kissing him though.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,720

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    A lot of it seems to apply to "large services" only, which are defined as having 7 million monthly UK users.

    Below that is a tier of "services with more than 700,000 monthly users".

    Would numbers be defined by Vanilla users or PB users?


    I would think only Facebook would reach 7 million? Maybe TwiX?
  • I once took a piss next to Josh from Casualty in a pub in Bristol.

    Didn't fancy kissing him though.

    The Ghost of George Michael...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    Maturing, please.
  • ...

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    A clip of a recent performance:

    https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewmoore30/video/7432960739930836257
    Yes. In the 1989 video of "I Don't Care" she's stunning. Mind you everything else they ever did was unlistenable.
    I don't care.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,316
    Nigelb said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    Even more than indecent lawyers ?
    Rarity value.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    edited December 16
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Indeed, I had a quick look at the research on the inheritance tax exemption changes and I think it's correct that more money will be lost from behavioural changes than will be raised by the tax. What bothers me is that no one did this beforehand, so the government is left with ploughing on and damaging the economy and family run businesses or they have an embarrassing climb down. It's about as bad as Liz Truss right now, indeed the first Labour budget leaves is with more borrowing than Liz Truss called for.
    That the Truss budget was an economic disaster I keep calling out as a myth and lie of “let them eat cake” proportions.

    The budget itself was only a giveaway of about £12B once the stealth taxes were properly included. That took a week to understand, but BBC, Sky, etc already told us on the day it was costly, expensive budget and never apologised for calling it so wrong.

    All currency’s were being whacked by the dollar that week. The borrowing costs had been climbing all year and went even higher under Sunak without same hysterical media reporting. The pension issue was nothing to do with Truss budget, but Sunak’s awful treasury unaware the issue of bad hedging had been building in pensions some time.

    In terms of the political fury at cutting the top rate of tax, it was only a tax invented in 2010 as Gordon Brown salted the earth ahead of a Conservative win - and Osborne had already halved it to applause, not anger.

    From the moment Truss stood up to give her victory speech, without acknowledging Sunak or shaking his hand, the Tory MPs were determined to get rid of her, so it was weeks of Tory and Labour both spreading the same lies about a budget. Sunak largely implemented and Labour largely backed Truss budget after Truss was gone.

    The unintended consequences of the blue on blue, was it gave the impression Tories crashed economy, and that lost them many votes in 2024. They got Rishi as leader, but trashed their parties credibility whilst doing it.

    What caused Truss problems with the markets was a promise outside the budget - to continue the energy pay outs all up to the election, 2.5 years - would still being paid this week to show how stupid the promise was, backed up by press releases boasting it would cost 8% of GDP. The unintended consequence of that promise (not going through the OBR) was market evaluation of upwards of £250B paying that one item alone. Hunt’s first action was to announce just six months not all up to election, and instantly the markets happy, like a volcano that’s just had sacrifice thrown in it.

    That’s the true history. PB like everywhere else in political media, prefers convenient myths, and rarely mentions unintended consequences.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ...

    ...

    Something is going on with Celtic singers. Cerys Matthews is 55 and Enya is 63! They’re all ageing!

    I'll raise you Wendy James (Transvision Vamp).
    A clip of a recent performance:

    https://www.tiktok.com/@andrewmoore30/video/7432960739930836257
    Yes. In the 1989 video of "I Don't Care" she's stunning. Mind you everything else they ever did was unlistenable.
    I don't care.
    It was the pink basque that turned my head. Not my size or colour though.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
    That line delivered in Kenneth Williams voice I hope. 🙂
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Indeed, I had a quick look at the research on the inheritance tax exemption changes and I think it's correct that more money will be lost from behavioural changes than will be raised by the tax. What bothers me is that no one did this beforehand, so the government is left with ploughing on and damaging the economy and family run businesses or they have an embarrassing climb down. It's about as bad as Liz Truss right now, indeed the first Labour budget leaves is with more borrowing than Liz Truss called for.
    That the Truss budget was an economic disaster I keep calling out as a myth and lie of “let them eat cake” proportions.

    The budget itself was only a giveaway of about £12B once the stealth taxes were properly included. That took a week to understand, but BBC, Sky, etc already told us on the day it was costly, expensive budget and never apologised for calling it so wrong.

    All currency’s were being whacked by the dollar that week. The borrowing costs had been climbing all year and went even higher under Sunak without same hysterical media reporting. The pension issue was nothing to do with Truss budget, but Sunak’s awful treasury unaware the issue of bad hedging had been building in pensions some time.

    In terms of the political fury at cutting the top rate of tax, it was only a tax invented in 2010 as Gordon Brown salted the earth ahead of a Conservative win - and Osborne had already halved it to applause, not anger.

    From the moment Truss stood up to give her victory speech, without acknowledging Sunak or shaking his hand, the Tory MPs were determined to get rid of her, so it was weeks of Tory and Labour both spreading the same lies about a budget. Sunak largely implemented and Labour largely backed Truss budget after Truss was gone.

    The unintended consequences of the blue on blue, was it gave the impression Tories crashed economy, and that lost them many votes in 2024. They got Rishi as leader, but trashed their parties credibility whilst doing it.

    What caused Truss problems with the markets was a promise outside the budget - to continue the energy pay outs all up to the election, 2.5 years - would still being paid this week to show how stupid the promise was, backed up by press releases boasting it would cost 8% of GDP. The unintended consequence of that promise (not going through the OBR) was market evaluation of upwards of £250B paying that one item alone. Hunt’s first action was to announce just six months not all up to election, and instantly the markets happy, like a volcano that’s just had sacrifice thrown in it.

    That’s the true history. PB like everywhere else in political media, prefers convenient myths, and rarely mentions unintended consequences.
    The removal of IR35 would have created a £20-30bn reduction in Employer NI revenue - we were rapidly setting up what would have been a very large accountancy firm for the market it was going to create. Heck we expect 40,000 lorry drivers to switch to self employment before we looked at other areas..
  • rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
    That line delivered in Kenneth Williams voice I hope. 🙂
    Data, Star Trek :)
  • rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
    That line delivered in Kenneth Williams voice I hope. 🙂
    Data, Star Trek :)
    Do you pronounce it Data or Data?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
    That line delivered in Kenneth Williams voice I hope. 🙂
    Data, Star Trek :)
    Do you pronounce it Data or Data?
    Datum, surely?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
    That line delivered in Kenneth Williams voice I hope. 🙂
    Data, Star Trek :)
    Do you pronounce it Data or Data?
    Sir Patrick pronounces it Day-ta!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    No. Do you know any?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited December 16

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    Point of order, I didn't read about it from X, I heard about stuff from someone close to a story. Some of us have connections, darling

    Obvs I am not going to repeat anything, especially if there are insane new laws coming in. Does anyone know how bad they are going to be? Why are we self harming our tech industries? Bonkers
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/siteassets/resources/documents/online-safety/information-for-industry/illegal-harms/illegal-content-codes-of-practice-for-user-to-user-services.pdf

    Page 77...
    Wow. That looks incredibly wide in its scope, to this layman's eye
    It's a laundry list, for sure. But I don't see which part goes to TSE's concerns about libel.
    So it is well known that PB is read by senior politicians, including an incumbent PM and a First Minister of Scotland, say some posters posted defamatory content about a senior politician that could be considered a harm.

    Because the bill is so broad we won't know exactly how things will be interpreted until we seem some examples and PB doesn't want to be a test case.

    Do you know how much decent lawyers cost?
    No. Do you know any?
    I once instructed Lord Grabiner QC* at £3,500 per hour plus VAT and disbursements.

    *As he was then.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    "I believe the U.S. Government knows what the “drones” are and doesn’t wish to clear this up definitively, preferring panic & loss of credibility to disclosure.

    That is the least crazy thing that could be happening. And that is totally crazy."

    https://x.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1868671268079407506

    Of course it knows. It knows that they are aeroplanes.
    So why doesn't Trump say that? Belittle the story, accuse the government of allowing hysteria to multiply

    He doens't. He explictly says "something strange is going on", and when he's asked if he's been briefed he says "no comment" - he surely has been briefed. He will be president in about a month

    Also, this:

    "Drone Incursions Closed Wright Patterson Air Force Base’s Airspace Friday Night

    Wright Patterson AFB, a high-profile base that's home to critical Air Force units, is the latest installation to deal with mysterious drones.

    Story:"

    https://x.com/Aviation_Intel/status/1868391931396669893
    Never mind that. I have just gone down a rabbit hole on Scittish chantreuses from the early 90s and been rendered sad by the discovery that both Charlene Spiteri and Shirley Manson are now in their late 50s.
    The fragrant Clare Grogan from a few years earlier must be sixty if she's a day.
    Yesterday I learned, from watching The Chase, that the Spandau Ballet song True was written about her.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378

    rcs1000 said:

    Oh god. Drones again.

    "He will make an excellent drone!"
    That line delivered in Kenneth Williams voice I hope. 🙂
    Data, Star Trek :)
    Do you pronounce it Data or Data?
    Sir Patrick pronounces it Day-ta!
    Well he is French. 😎
  • eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Indeed, I had a quick look at the research on the inheritance tax exemption changes and I think it's correct that more money will be lost from behavioural changes than will be raised by the tax. What bothers me is that no one did this beforehand, so the government is left with ploughing on and damaging the economy and family run businesses or they have an embarrassing climb down. It's about as bad as Liz Truss right now, indeed the first Labour budget leaves is with more borrowing than Liz Truss called for.
    That the Truss budget was an economic disaster I keep calling out as a myth and lie of “let them eat cake” proportions.

    The budget itself was only a giveaway of about £12B once the stealth taxes were properly included. That took a week to understand, but BBC, Sky, etc already told us on the day it was costly, expensive budget and never apologised for calling it so wrong.

    All currency’s were being whacked by the dollar that week. The borrowing costs had been climbing all year and went even higher under Sunak without same hysterical media reporting. The pension issue was nothing to do with Truss budget, but Sunak’s awful treasury unaware the issue of bad hedging had been building in pensions some time.

    In terms of the political fury at cutting the top rate of tax, it was only a tax invented in 2010 as Gordon Brown salted the earth ahead of a Conservative win - and Osborne had already halved it to applause, not anger.

    From the moment Truss stood up to give her victory speech, without acknowledging Sunak or shaking his hand, the Tory MPs were determined to get rid of her, so it was weeks of Tory and Labour both spreading the same lies about a budget. Sunak largely implemented and Labour largely backed Truss budget after Truss was gone.

    The unintended consequences of the blue on blue, was it gave the impression Tories crashed economy, and that lost them many votes in 2024. They got Rishi as leader, but trashed their parties credibility whilst doing it.

    What caused Truss problems with the markets was a promise outside the budget - to continue the energy pay outs all up to the election, 2.5 years - would still being paid this week to show how stupid the promise was, backed up by press releases boasting it would cost 8% of GDP. The unintended consequence of that promise (not going through the OBR) was market evaluation of upwards of £250B paying that one item alone. Hunt’s first action was to announce just six months not all up to election, and instantly the markets happy, like a volcano that’s just had sacrifice thrown in it.

    That’s the true history. PB like everywhere else in political media, prefers convenient myths, and rarely mentions unintended consequences.
    The removal of IR35 would have created a £20-30bn reduction in Employer NI revenue - we were rapidly setting up what would have been a very large accountancy firm for the market it was going to create. Heck we expect 40,000 lorry drivers to switch to self employment before we looked at other areas..
    Except the budget would not have removed IR35. All it proposed was returning to the situation prior to the last set of reforms in 2021. It was those reforms that caught so many people in incorrect status decisions and killed contracting for many businesses.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    Yup.

    It's why I stamped down on the bullshit that for example Leon and Blanche were desperate to post about Starmer a few weeks ago which they read on X and turned out to be bollocks.

    We might put repeat offenders in to the pending folder, so their comments are only published after the mods have checked them.

    PBers are quite good at self regulating themselves but we're entering a new regulatory word. Deleting problematic posts will not be effective.

    OGH has made it quite clear he doesn't want to spend his pension and his retirement dealing with legal issues.
    You could hold all those for whatever is Leon’s wacko theory of the day in the pending folder, and then release them once we’re all asleep?
  • Barnesian said:

    algarkirk said:

    As far as I am aware, the red coated, bearded, welly wearing chap has always been Santa in the West of Scotland, never Father Christmas. Is that also the case in other places?

    My memories of childhood are distant and faint, but I think he was -- this was the late '70s -- Father Xmas and Santa was seen as an Americanism.
    For me the definitive guide is Joan Gale Thomas in 'My book about Christmas' first publ 1946, last reprinted 1979. I had it read to me, I once upon a time read it to my children, my children now read it to their children, and so on in perpetuity.

    She uses the term Father Christmas throughout, but in an indented note adds: 'Sometimes Father Christmas is called Santa Claus, which means St Nicholas'.

    It is steeped in the world of the post war middle class and tells the story and the whole thing wonderfully well.
    This fellow who creeps into children's bedrooms with no safeguarding and gives big presents to rich children and nothing to poor children worries me.

    Father Christmas sounds like a priest. Santa is an anagram of Satan. It's all a bit worrying.
    We had a pair of visiting American colleagues who could not get over the fact that the soft drink Vimto is an anagram of vomit.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Phil said:

    This may have already been discussed, but have the mods / OGH considered the impact the Online Safety Bill is going to have on PB when it goes into law next March?

    It seems a heavy compliance burden & legal liability is going to fall on the site owners?

    It's also going to set our AI industry back IMO. The government needs to take a pause and look at the intended and unintended consequences of the bill and rework it. Get industry experts in and not a bunch of know nothing bureaucrats to write it. The EU took the latter approach and it's hurt the tech industry there to point that it's now terminal, we can't allow that to happen here.
    I don’t think this Labour government even understand what “ unintended consequences” actually are.
    Indeed, I had a quick look at the research on the inheritance tax exemption changes and I think it's correct that more money will be lost from behavioural changes than will be raised by the tax. What bothers me is that no one did this beforehand, so the government is left with ploughing on and damaging the economy and family run businesses or they have an embarrassing climb down. It's about as bad as Liz Truss right now, indeed the first Labour budget leaves is with more borrowing than Liz Truss called for.
    That the Truss budget was an economic disaster I keep calling out as a myth and lie of “let them eat cake” proportions.

    The budget itself was only a giveaway of about £12B once the stealth taxes were properly included. That took a week to understand, but BBC, Sky, etc already told us on the day it was costly, expensive budget and never apologised for calling it so wrong.

    All currency’s were being whacked by the dollar that week. The borrowing costs had been climbing all year and went even higher under Sunak without same hysterical media reporting. The pension issue was nothing to do with Truss budget, but Sunak’s awful treasury unaware the issue of bad hedging had been building in pensions some time.

    In terms of the political fury at cutting the top rate of tax, it was only a tax invented in 2010 as Gordon Brown salted the earth ahead of a Conservative win - and Osborne had already halved it to applause, not anger.

    From the moment Truss stood up to give her victory speech, without acknowledging Sunak or shaking his hand, the Tory MPs were determined to get rid of her, so it was weeks of Tory and Labour both spreading the same lies about a budget. Sunak largely implemented and Labour largely backed Truss budget after Truss was gone.

    The unintended consequences of the blue on blue, was it gave the impression Tories crashed economy, and that lost them many votes in 2024. They got Rishi as leader, but trashed their parties credibility whilst doing it.

    What caused Truss problems with the markets was a promise outside the budget - to continue the energy pay outs all up to the election, 2.5 years - would still being paid this week to show how stupid the promise was, backed up by press releases boasting it would cost 8% of GDP. The unintended consequence of that promise (not going through the OBR) was market evaluation of upwards of £250B paying that one item alone. Hunt’s first action was to announce just six months not all up to election, and instantly the markets happy, like a volcano that’s just had sacrifice thrown in it.

    That’s the true history. PB like everywhere else in political media, prefers convenient myths, and rarely mentions unintended consequences.
    The removal of IR35 would have created a £20-30bn reduction in Employer NI revenue - we were rapidly setting up what would have been a very large accountancy firm for the market it was going to create. Heck we expect 40,000 lorry drivers to switch to self employment before we looked at other areas..
    Except the budget would not have removed IR35. All it proposed was returning to the situation prior to the last set of reforms in 2021. It was those reforms that caught so many people in incorrect status decisions and killed contracting for many businesses.
    It was rolling back to the prior to 2020/1 version I was talking about. And that figure came from 2 driver recruitment agencies..
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