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If the referendum were rerun today there would be a very different result – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited December 17 in General
If the referendum were rerun today there would be a very different result – politicalbetting.com

Britons favour proportional representation (PR) over first past the post (FPTP), with support highest among Reform UK and Lib Dem votersAll Britons: 44% PR / 23% FPTPReform UK: 62% / 17%Lib Dems: 58% / 22%Labour: 48% / 24%Conservative: 39% / 41%https://t.co/MGHGgW2y3p pic.twitter.com/qWSA1drSLw

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Comments

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,413
    First. Nice trick header.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393
    edited December 5

    First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,956
    edited December 5

    First. Nice trick header.

    It's a thread that covers both AV and Scottish independence, I feel rather smug at my own genius and subtlety.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393

    First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
  • First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
    Fake news.

    Hurrah for the edit facilities.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945

    First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
    Fake news.

    Hurrah for the edit facilities.
    The URL, on the other hand...
  • Good morning

    It was striking how dismissive Starmer was when asked about this yesterday by Ed Davey at PMQs
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    That probably sounds the deathknell for the 5G broadband from 3 that my workmate raves about. Available on a rolling monthly contract.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212

    Good morning

    It was striking how dismissive Starmer was when asked about this yesterday by Ed Davey at PMQs

    Only one of those two is in the running for a Christmas number 1.
  • Dopermean said:

    That probably sounds the deathknell for the 5G broadband from 3 that my workmate raves about. Available on a rolling monthly contract.
    Nah, it'll be like the T-Mobile/Orange merger which saw two under performing networks become the best network (I hope.)
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Starmer is probably using Diane Abbott as his funding advisor.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/diane-abbott-flounders-over-labours-police-funding-again-in-embarrassing-tv-interview-a3592656.html
  • Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    So more rapists on the streets under Starmer?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    We just spent months (and lots of money) replacing all of our Vodafone international connectivity with Three :(
  • Scott_xP said:

    We just spent months (and lots of money) replacing all of our Vodafone international connectivity with Three :(
    Why?

    Do you not have access to the news?

    This merger (then likely outright takeover by Vodafone) has been known about for nearly three years.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5
    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,109
    Is that the IHT dodging landowner Dyson?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393

    First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
    Fake news.

    Hurrah for the edit facilities.
    Please re-edit my post into which you accidentally dropped something from @Morris_Dancer.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    So more rapists on the streets under Starmer?
    This is what Dawn Butler was getting at the other day when complaining the Met's DNA database is half-empty.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    And we havent even got to the bit where he appoints Gregg Wallace as Minister for Women and Equalities
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Scott_xP said:

    We just spent months (and lots of money) replacing all of our Vodafone international connectivity with Three :(
    Why?

    Do you not have access to the news?

    This merger (then likely outright takeover by Vodafone) has been known about for nearly three years.
    It's taken 3 years for them to get the work done...
  • Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    He pledged that at the election

    He really is out of ideas
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
  • First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
    Fake news.

    Hurrah for the edit facilities.
    The URL, on the other hand...
    I could change that too but causes too much hassle.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,956
    Foxy said:

    Is that the IHT dodging landowner Dyson?
    He's not wrong though.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    I cannot believe that we are even having this conversation considering the current political and economic turmoil in France and Germany, much of which is still not even on the radar of most of the UK electorate. Ask them the same question in six months time regardless of the smallest UK political parties who would seek to profit the most and see what result you get!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Oh you can't trust the specials like the old-time coppers when you can't find your way home but Specials and PCSOs are a great deal cheaper which is no doubt how Starmer will square the circle.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    Don't Special Constables already work for free? They tend to be the ones doing traffic enforcement, foot patrols in local areas etc, and therefore a cheap way for the government to increase the presence of cops on the streets.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Foxy said:

    Is that the IHT dodging landowner Dyson?
    LOL rich coming from a doctor. Hows all that give us more money tax free for our pensions going ?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    They will all be setting up trusts if they have any sense
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,109

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    I think it is doable, but those new facilities need to be started now. The only way to staff them is international recruitment, so a bit of an issue for immigration targets.

    There are some innovations happening soon. The EMPCC is all electronic and opens next week on my manor for example.

    https://www.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/aboutus/our-hospitals/our-future-hospitals/east-midlands-planned-care-centre/

    But we need that sort of infrastructure every year to meet these targets.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Oh you can't trust the specials like the old-time coppers when you can't find your way home but Specials and PCSOs are a great deal cheaper which is no doubt how Starmer will square the circle.
    PSCOs still get paid £25k a year (and of course you roughly double a salary as the cost to employ somebody when you factor in NI, pension, uniform etc). There is going to have to be a very large number of volunteers.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Mr. Eagles, it's always bloody tedious when you publish something and then immediately spot an error.

    Not that I have ever dun that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5
    Foxy said:

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    I think it is doable, but those new facilities need to be started now. The only way to staff them is international recruitment, so a bit of an issue for immigration targets.

    There are some innovations happening soon. The EMPCC is all electronic and opens next week on my manor for example.

    https://www.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/aboutus/our-hospitals/our-future-hospitals/east-midlands-planned-care-centre/

    But we need that sort of infrastructure every year to meet these targets.
    It makes the decision to shit can / pause a load of the already works in the pipeline when they got into government even weirder.
  • Foxy said:

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    I think it is doable, but those new facilities need to be started now. The only way to staff them is international recruitment, so a bit of an issue for immigration targets.

    There are some innovations happening soon. The EMPCC is all electronic and opens next week on my manor for example.

    https://www.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/aboutus/our-hospitals/our-future-hospitals/east-midlands-planned-care-centre/

    But we need that sort of infrastructure every year to meet these targets.
    I assume that Sunaks government were responsible for that progress
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,393

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
  • Mr. Eagles, it's always bloody tedious when you publish something and then immediately spot an error.

    Not that I have ever dun that.

    Tell me about it.

    Auto-correct is the bane of my existence.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Mr. eagles, the 'AI' spellchecker in a word processor I used thought multi-billionaire was wrong, and suggested mufti-billionaire.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,441

    Mr. eagles, the 'AI' spellchecker in a word processor I used thought multi-billionaire was wrong, and suggested mufti-billionaire.

    That's when you are so rich that nobody can tell you what clothes you have to wear.

    (No, not like that, Gregg.)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5
    Eabhal said:

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    Don't Special Constables already work for free? They tend to be the ones doing traffic enforcement, foot patrols in local areas etc, and therefore a cheap way for the government to increase the presence of cops on the streets.
    Essentially yes, they can claim some expenses, cost of missing work. But do the maths, a huge bulk of them would have to be volunteers to make the sum add up. Is that likely that you will get many 1000s of extra people wanting to volunteer? How come they haven't already volunteered in addition to? There are only ~8500 or so total at the moment and the numbers have been falling.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    They will all be setting up trusts if they have any sense
    They are perfectly entitled to do that within current guidance They can also hand their estates over to Keith and kin seven years before they die too. There are already ways around the IHT that any competent YTS book keeping trainee could advise them so to do without a tractor procession through Westminster.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Has he promoted Diane Abbott?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Did Diane Abbot do the sums?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Seven grand an officer, some of whom will be paid over four or five years. Clearly they’re expecting 12.5k new volunteer Specials.

    Not quite Diane Abbott levels of policing budgets, but not far off.

    Oh, and how much will the Employer NI changes cost the police, does that also need to come out of the £100m?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,109

    Foxy said:

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    I think it is doable, but those new facilities need to be started now. The only way to staff them is international recruitment, so a bit of an issue for immigration targets.

    There are some innovations happening soon. The EMPCC is all electronic and opens next week on my manor for example.

    https://www.leicestershospitals.nhs.uk/aboutus/our-hospitals/our-future-hospitals/east-midlands-planned-care-centre/

    But we need that sort of infrastructure every year to meet these targets.
    I assume that Sunaks government were responsible for that progress
    It's been 2 years in development, a refurbishment of a disused psychiatry block, to tackle surgical waiting lists. Quite how they plan to address the psychiatric waiting list is unclear...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324

    First. Nice trick header.

    You mean where the headline uses was rather than were – how standards have fallen!
    TBF, a matter of perception, perhaps. Those things are all rather subjunctive in this degenerate age.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,068

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    They will all be setting up trusts if they have any sense
    They are perfectly entitled to do that within current guidance They can also hand their estates over to Keith and kin seven years before they die too. There are already ways around the IHT that any competent YTS book keeping trainee could advise them so to do without a tractor procession through Westminster.
    Lucky Keith!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    And we havent even got to the bit where he appoints Gregg Wallace as Minister for Women and Equalities
    If Trump doesn't get there first....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140
    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,940

    Eabhal said:

    This reboot isn't surviving contact with reality. Dr Foxy says the NHS target isn't doable, the extra plod are going to have to work for free.....

    Don't Special Constables already work for free? They tend to be the ones doing traffic enforcement, foot patrols in local areas etc, and therefore a cheap way for the government to increase the presence of cops on the streets.
    Essentially yes, they can claim some expenses, cost of missing work. But do the maths, a huge bulk of them would have to be volunteers to make the sum add up. Is that likely that you will get many 1000s of extra people wanting to volunteer? How come they haven't already volunteered in addition to? There are only ~8500 or so total at the moment and the numbers have been falling.
    I would guess there is some re-announcing going on here, with some of the funds already allocated in a budget somewhere. Labour aren't innocent of this kinda thing - a lot of the capital investments "announced" in the budget were already funded and in progress.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Blame the Guardian....

    The government have still be majorly spinning,

    "The extra patrols will be paid for, the Home Office says, by efficiency measures such as standardising procurement.... But the promise is not quite what it seems. The 13,000 extra officers include only 3,000 fully-warranted police - the remainder are made up of community support officers (PCSOs) and volunteer special constables."

    "Yvette Cooper is pressed on the fact that fewer than a third of the extra 13,000 police officers promised will be new recruits."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crmn2jve0jpt

    And against this background,

    Met faces service cuts without more cash, says chief
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdzp5ew3po
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,931
    edited December 5
    Foxy said:

    AV isn't Proportional Representation of course...

    True of course and it can produce results that are even less proportional than FPTP, however that only tends to happen if one side wins very big anyway, so probably isn't as much of an issue. Given a choice I would go for STV as being more proportional and overcomes the issues raised by FPTP proponents. I do however prefer AV to FPTP as being more representative in most cases even if not PR.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,403
    Fishing said:

    We didn't have a referendum on PR.

    AV isn't PR (see here https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/alternative-vote/), which is what the question asks about, and in many instances is actually less proportional than FPTP (a difficult feat).

    So the premise of the thread is simply wrong - the poll doesn't show that voters regret how they voted in the 2011 referendum at all. It is like saying that because Britons back assisted dying they would vote to bring back capital punishment, or for that matter going to war with Portugal - the two proposals are simply unrelated.

    Yes, the header is a psephological mess.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Scott_xP said:

    We just spent months (and lots of money) replacing all of our Vodafone international connectivity with Three :(
    Brexit, innit.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,668
    Pulpstar said:

    Fishing said:

    We didn't have a referendum on PR.

    AV isn't PR (see here https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/alternative-vote/), which is what the question asks about, and in many instances is actually less proportional than FPTP (a difficult feat).

    So the premise of the thread is simply wrong - the poll doesn't show that voters regret how they voted in the 2011 referendum at all. It is like saying that because Britons back assisted dying they would vote to bring back capital punishment, or for that matter going to war with Portugal - the two proposals are simply unrelated.

    Yes, the header is a psephological mess.
    Good clickbait, though.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Blame the Guardian....

    The government have still be majorly spinning,

    "The extra patrols will be paid for, the Home Office says, by efficiency measures such as standardising procurement.... But the promise is not quite what it seems. The 13,000 extra officers include only 3,000 fully-warranted police - the remainder are made up of community support officers (PCSOs) and volunteer special constables."

    "Yvette Cooper is pressed on the fact that fewer than a third of the extra 13,000 police officers promised will be new recruits."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crmn2jve0jpt

    And against this background,

    Met faces service cuts without more cash, says chief
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdzp5ew3po
    Why would posters who say the Guardian is rubbish take the Guardian for gospel?

    If its rubbish use a bit of common sense?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Even £100m for 1,200 officers is still only £80k per officer, and it takes two years to train them.

    I doubt £80k covers the cost of the Academy before they go near the beat.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    Cookie said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    They will all be setting up trusts if they have any sense
    They are perfectly entitled to do that within current guidance They can also hand their estates over to Keith and kin seven years before they die too. There are already ways around the IHT that any competent YTS book keeping trainee could advise them so to do without a tractor procession through Westminster.
    Lucky Keith!
    An unfortunate but highly appropriate auto correct. If they don't make inheritance tax avoidance plans it will all go to Keith ( Starmer).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 5
    Good morning everyone, And thanks for the header, @Teasy.

    On my feed this morning, an unusual case where a very short-sighted elderly driver, who could only read a number plate at 3m rather than 20m received a short prison sentence for killing someone with their motor vehicle. Normally it would just be a revocation is licence and not prosecuted.

    82 year old drove straight into a 70 year old man riding a cycle from behind, whilst going in the same direction.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/real-life/daughter-calls-law-change-after-25068908

    I think we're going to see some change on these regulations in the next year or two, alongside something on graduated driving licences for young drivers, since under 24 (for men especially) and over ~75 are the ages are where KSI rates skyrocket, as part of the current road safety review.

    Providing practical alternatives for people who cannot drive safely is important, and that means buses and safe active travel. My photo quota for today:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2023/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2023
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Blame the Guardian....

    The government have still be majorly spinning,

    "The extra patrols will be paid for, the Home Office says, by efficiency measures such as standardising procurement.... But the promise is not quite what it seems. The 13,000 extra officers include only 3,000 fully-warranted police - the remainder are made up of community support officers (PCSOs) and volunteer special constables."

    "Yvette Cooper is pressed on the fact that fewer than a third of the extra 13,000 police officers promised will be new recruits."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crmn2jve0jpt

    And against this background,

    Met faces service cuts without more cash, says chief
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdzp5ew3po
    Why would posters who say the Guardian is rubbish take the Guardian for gospel?

    If its rubbish use a bit of common sense?
    The Guardian fault is normally bias by omission when it comes to stories with inconvenient factors that challenge their world view and the hilarious opinion pieces. They are normally fairly good for straight news on government announcements, particularly left leaning governments, because of their connections.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212
    edited December 5
    I’m on the train next to a man on his mobile who has segued with extreme fluency between two calls, from some serious sermonising to other matters. It’s impressive:

    “let thanks be to our Lord Jesus who died on the cross at Calvary, let us pray for the forgiveness of our sins, we are all sinners, god be praised, in the name of Jesus, ok bye,
    speak later”…”hi, I’m on the Elizabeth line and it’s a bit delayed, I think there in about 15 minutes, cheers”.

    EDIT: just noticed he’s wearing a baseball cap with “BLESSED” written on it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073
    edited December 5

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Special Constables are volunteers.

    Interestingly, getting rid of them was an old Labour thing. That and replacing magistrates with judges.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Blame the Guardian....

    The government have still be majorly spinning,

    "The extra patrols will be paid for, the Home Office says, by efficiency measures such as standardising procurement.... But the promise is not quite what it seems. The 13,000 extra officers include only 3,000 fully-warranted police - the remainder are made up of community support officers (PCSOs) and volunteer special constables."

    "Yvette Cooper is pressed on the fact that fewer than a third of the extra 13,000 police officers promised will be new recruits."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crmn2jve0jpt

    And against this background,

    Met faces service cuts without more cash, says chief
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgdzp5ew3po
    Why would posters who say the Guardian is rubbish take the Guardian for gospel?

    If its rubbish use a bit of common sense?
    I’ll consult with my fellow passenger on what should be taken as gospel, as he seems to be a bit of an expert.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,073
    Sandpit said:

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Even £100m for 1,200 officers is still only £80k per officer, and it takes two years to train them.

    I doubt £80k covers the cost of the Academy before they go near the beat.
    Taking police from “elsewhere” will mean emptying specialist squads. This has been done before. Then people start wondering why various crimes aren’t being solved…
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    Special Constables are volunteers.

    Interestingly, getting rid of them was an old Labour thing. That and replacing magistrates with judges.
    You can’t trust the coppers like the old time specials when you can’t find your way ‘ome.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,212
    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    More of a Gtech man myself
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone, And thanks for the header, @Teasy.

    On my feed this morning, an unusual case where a very short-sighted elderly driver, who could only read a number plate at 3m rather than 20m received a short prison sentence for killing someone with their motor vehicle. Normally it would just be a revocation is licence and not prosecuted.

    82 year old drove straight into a 70 year old man riding a cycle from behind, whilst going in the same direction.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/real-life/daughter-calls-law-change-after-25068908

    I think we're going to see some change on these regulations in the next year or two, alongside something on graduated driving licences for young drivers, since under 24 (for men especially) and over ~75 are the ages are where KSI rates skyrocket, as part of the current road safety review.

    Providing practical alternatives for people who cannot drive safely is important, and that means buses and safe active travel. My photo quota for today:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2023/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2023

    Missed a bit. This was flagged as a case highlighted by a current campaign for a law change in eyesight tests for elderly drivers - following the consultation by the previous Govt and the current Road Safety Review.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,140
    MattW said:


    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone, And thanks for the header, @Teasy.

    On my feed this morning, an unusual case where a very short-sighted elderly driver, who could only read a number plate at 3m rather than 20m received a short prison sentence for killing someone with their motor vehicle. Normally it would just be a revocation is licence and not prosecuted.

    82 year old drove straight into a 70 year old man riding a cycle from behind, whilst going in the same direction.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/real-life/daughter-calls-law-change-after-25068908

    I think we're going to see some change on these regulations in the next year or two, alongside something on graduated driving licences for young drivers, since under 24 (for men especially) and over ~75 are the ages are where KSI rates skyrocket, as part of the current road safety review.

    Providing practical alternatives for people who cannot drive safely is important, and that means buses and safe active travel. My photo quota for today:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2023/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2023

    Missed a bit. This was flagged as a case highlighted by a current campaign for a law change in eyesight tests for elderly drivers - following the consultation by the previous Govt and the current Road Safety Review.
    How does age profile compare with time since past first test profile?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    ...
    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    That is a fair analysis. The designs are not as clever as claimed. I have the hand held cyclonic "animal" cleaner. You know the one where the collection cylinder is too narrow to collect beagle hair and blocks to the point of being unusable after 30 seconds. Henry and the GTech are a better combination.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone, And thanks for the header, @Teasy.

    On my feed this morning, an unusual case where a very short-sighted elderly driver, who could only read a number plate at 3m rather than 20m received a short prison sentence for killing someone with their motor vehicle. Normally it would just be a revocation is licence and not prosecuted.

    82 year old drove straight into a 70 year old man riding a cycle from behind, whilst going in the same direction.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/real-life/daughter-calls-law-change-after-25068908

    I think we're going to see some change on these regulations in the next year or two, alongside something on graduated driving licences for young drivers, since under 24 (for men especially) and over ~75 are the ages are where KSI rates skyrocket, as part of the current road safety review.

    Providing practical alternatives for people who cannot drive safely is important, and that means buses and safe active travel. My photo quota for today:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2023/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2023

    The male/female disparity at each end of the age spectrum is quite striking.
    The danger of young male drivers is pretty well know - but over 75 women ?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    edited December 5
    MattW said:


    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone, And thanks for the header, @Teasy.

    On my feed this morning, an unusual case where a very short-sighted elderly driver, who could only read a number plate at 3m rather than 20m received a short prison sentence for killing someone with their motor vehicle. Normally it would just be a revocation is licence and not prosecuted.

    82 year old drove straight into a 70 year old man riding a cycle from behind, whilst going in the same direction.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/real-life/daughter-calls-law-change-after-25068908

    I think we're going to see some change on these regulations in the next year or two, alongside something on graduated driving licences for young drivers, since under 24 (for men especially) and over ~75 are the ages are where KSI rates skyrocket, as part of the current road safety review.

    Providing practical alternatives for people who cannot drive safely is important, and that means buses and safe active travel. My photo quota for today:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-older-and-younger-driver-factsheets-2023/reported-road-casualties-in-great-britain-older-driver-factsheet-2023

    Missed a bit. This was flagged as a case highlighted by a current campaign for a law change in eyesight tests for elderly drivers - following the consultation by the previous Govt and the current Road Safety Review.
    I think what you're showing is KSIs for car drivers, rather than KSIs caused by car drivers which will be slightly different.

    A graph showing KSIs of pedestrians and cyclists by car/ HGV / PSV drivers broken down by age/gender would be interesting if an organisation produced the stats.

    Though the graph does indicate risk-taking / competency at the age extremes, but it might be that a lot of 86+ year olds involved in a car accident die
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
    Reeves destroys wealth in Britain
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    So who do we think might be able to form a government in France, that’s acceptable to both Parliament and Macron, or are we heading for Parliamentary elections in the new year?

    Somewhat embarrassing for Macron not to have a PM for his big party at Notre Dame this weekend, with 50 heads of State and Government expected to attend.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/04/france-government-confidence-vote/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,166
    edited December 5
    I noted on the night that the martial law declaration was unconstitutional on its face.
    This article confirms that.

    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/12/356_387805.html
    Army Chief of Staff Gen. Park An-su, who briefly assumed the role of martial law commander, said Thursday that he learned of the martial law declaration through President Yoon Seok Yeol's public announcement on Tuesday night.

    During an emergency parliamentary defense committee inquiry on Thursday, Park and acting Minister of National Defense Kim Seon-ho, who was a vice defense minister until early Thursday, said that the order to deploy troops to the National Assembly and the order for their withdrawal came from former defense minister Kim Yong-hyun.

    "I did not know about the deployment of troops. I did not give the order," Park said, adding that he was informed of his appointment as martial law commander during a meeting chaired by Kim Yong-hyun, after Yoon's declaration of martial law.

    The acting defense minister also said he became aware of the martial law declaration from media reports.

    While these military officials declined to have been involved with the martial law schemes from the start, the former defense minister is reported to have remained in the underground control room of the Ministry of National Defense headquarters, issuing detailed instructions for the martial law operation from the moment Yoon declared the nationwide martial law until it was lifted...

    ..Although it is unclear whether the former defense chief personally drafted the martial law proclamation decree, Army Chief of Staff Park explained that the former defense minister provided the decree to him.

    Despite Park's suggestion that the decree might need further legal review to determine whether there were any unlawful articles, Park said Kim Yong-hyun insisted that "the matter has already been legally reviewed" as he pressed for the immediate announcement.

    The issued decree included a provision in its first article that "all political activities, including the activities of the National Assembly, political parties, political gatherings and protests are prohibited."

    This has raised concerns that such a measure, which restricts the National Assembly's ability to demand the lifting of martial law, is unconstitutional, as it goes beyond both the Constitution and the Martial Law Act...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
    Reeves destroys wealth in Britain
    Christ on a bike. Do you have a selection of dumb posts that you can easily select to slag off Reeves.

    My earlier post was not uncritical but all yours are a not a particularly imaginative version of "Reeves is shit".

    Anyway I'm off to work. I can't spend all day with all you job seeker claimants.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,068
    TimS said:

    ...

    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    That is a fair analysis. The designs are not as clever as claimed. I have the hand held cyclonic "animal" cleaner. You know the one where the collection cylinder is too narrow to collect beagle hair and blocks to the point of being unusable after 30 seconds. Henry and the GTech are a better combination.
    We are a Henry / Gtech household. What I love about Henry is the ease of dragging it around and bashing around the walls. Truly the professional’s choice.
    There is quite a lot about a Henry that is a pain in the arse. And yet it does seem to get more muck up than any others I have tried. (Not least because of the little brushes on the head with which you can generate satisfying dusty hairballs from the detritus on your carpet.) Also, it has a smiley face which genuinely makes hoovering a more pleasant experience.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    There is no such thing as a budget that can't be attacked, as there is no such thing as a tax which everyone approves of. Dyson, while very obviously engaging in special pleading - which is fair enough - does not say where the burden should fall instead. This renders his thoughts mere polemic.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967

    Sandpit said:

    A lot of wilful misrepresentation on here this morning. The £100m is not to fund the new 13,000 roles. It is for 1,200 roles, the others are to be taken from elsewhere and reprioritised to neighbourhood policing, which is what a lot of the public have been calling for, and how things used to be before things got worse.

    Even £100m for 1,200 officers is still only £80k per officer, and it takes two years to train them.

    I doubt £80k covers the cost of the Academy before they go near the beat.
    Taking police from “elsewhere” will mean emptying specialist squads. This has been done before. Then people start wondering why various crimes aren’t being solved…
    New government, same old spin about police numbers and ‘investment’.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
    Reeves destroys wealth in Britain
    Christ on a bike. Do you have a selection of dumb posts that you can easily select to slag off Reeves.

    My earlier post was not uncritical but all yours are a not a particularly imaginative version of "Reeves is shit".

    Anyway I'm off to work. I can't spend all day with all you job seeker claimants.
    "Reeves is shit"
    Im glad to see youre coming round to my point of view
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,324
    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    That's a little bit like nuking Greater London and being praised for urban improvement in Tooting. Still, credit's due where it's due.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    algarkirk said:

    There is no such thing as a budget that can't be attacked, as there is no such thing as a tax which everyone approves of. Dyson, while very obviously engaging in special pleading - which is fair enough - does not say where the burden should fall instead. This renders his thoughts mere polemic.

    He raises the fair point of why would anyone start a business in the UK ? We re progressively making our country uncompetitive,
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5
    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    Actually him being located in Malaysia isn't all about tax efficiency and lower wages. The world leading company for taking a design and converting it into a product that can be mass produced / organizing and handling of the whole product line is based there. They provide a one stop service such that you can take your product design and they will basically handle as little or as much of having the physical product made.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    edited December 5

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
    Reeves destroys wealth in Britain
    Christ on a bike. Do you have a selection of dumb posts that you can easily select to slag off Reeves.

    My earlier post was not uncritical but all yours are a not a particularly imaginative version of "Reeves is shit".

    Anyway I'm off to work. I can't spend all day with all you job seeker claimants.
    "Reeves is shit"
    Im glad to see youre coming round to my point of view
    I didn't say that. It was a simple precis of all your posts.

    You'd save everyone a lot of reading time if you just posted "Reeves is shit" every post. Your posts generally say nothing more, so that saves both you and us time.
  • Fishing said:

    We didn't have a referendum on PR.

    AV isn't PR (see here https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voting-systems/types-of-voting-system/alternative-vote/), which is what the question asks about, and in many instances is actually less proportional than FPTP (a difficult feat).

    So the premise of the thread is simply wrong - the poll doesn't show that voters regret how they voted in the 2011 referendum at all. It is like saying that because Britons back assisted dying they would vote to bring back capital punishment, or for that matter going to war with Portugal - the two proposals are simply unrelated.

    Very few options on offer are Proportional Representation and they misrepresent what they are offering. Proportional Representation is not Equal Representation or an equal share of power

    Mrs B of great lamented memory was "leader" of six "Independents" on a council of 52 where conrol was split between four groupings. By leader I mean she told the other five what to do. Through five changes of control on the council Mrs B remained the representative on the Local Authority Association whatever it was called. She effectively played one off against another.

    The LDs have always assumed they would do that under PR. That is why Blair went for closed De Hondt for the Euro elections. Didn't work as the electorate voted them out when they wanted change - ie no more Blair.

    Even in Ireland this time where they use the only remotely fair system STV Fine Gael managed to lose a seat on the last count even though they had two candidates still in the run with way more votes together than the candidate who was elected. They were too close in numbers to be voted out. I must admit I thought that was not possible, so I learnt something.

    Also for STV to produce PR you need large constituencies with at least ten members. 3, 4 or 5 member constituencies still produce a carve up, again vide Ireland.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,869
    edited December 5

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    The manifesto pledge was £400m a year, reallocated. No idea where the Guardian gets £100m from (is that new money?). I'd say there's an element of "frontline first" there around the reallocation, and PCSOs is the correct target for community coppers. £400m/13,000 is £30k, so it's most of what is needed but would not cover overheads etc. Could it be from savings on the billions spent on warehousing people and not addressing asylum by the previous Govt? Rwanda money?

    "13,000 additional neighbourhood police and community PCSOs; and specialist
    domestic abuse advisers in 999 control rooms at peak times

    Police Efficiency and Collaboration Programme

    Amount re-allocated,annualised,
    £400m

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,967
    TimS said:

    ...

    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    That is a fair analysis. The designs are not as clever as claimed. I have the hand held cyclonic "animal" cleaner. You know the one where the collection cylinder is too narrow to collect beagle hair and blocks to the point of being unusable after 30 seconds. Henry and the GTech are a better combination.
    We are a Henry / Gtech household. What I love about Henry is the ease of dragging it around and bashing about the walls. Truly the professional’s choice.

    Both are regional British businesses too.
    I think I’ve seen Henry in hotels on at least three continents.

    A quiet British success story compared to consumer brands such as Dyson.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
    Reeves destroys wealth in Britain
    Christ on a bike. Do you have a selection of dumb posts that you can easily select to slag off Reeves.

    My earlier post was not uncritical but all yours are a not a particularly imaginative version of "Reeves is shit".

    Anyway I'm off to work. I can't spend all day with all you job seeker claimants.
    "Reeves is shit"
    Im glad to see youre coming round to my point of view
    You'd save everyone a lot of reading time if you just posted "Reeves is shit" every post. Your posts generally say nothing more, so that saves both you and us time.
    The other advantage for him is that such a posting does not require punctuation, which he “can’t be arsed” to do. Trebles all round!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited December 5
    MattW said:

    Starmer will pledge 13,000 more neighbourhood police, PCSOs and special constables by 2029, with an additional £100m of funding.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/04/starmer-seeks-to-relaunch-premiership-with-new-promise-to-crack-down-on-crime

    Does quick maths....they aren't going to be paid very much.....

    The manifesto pledge was £400m a year. No idea where the Guardian gets £100m comes from (is that new money?). I'd say there's an element of "frontline first" there around the reallocation, and PCSOs is the correct target for community coppers. £400m/13,000 is £30k, so it's most of what is needed but would not cover overheads etc. Could it be from savings on the billions spent on warehousing people and not addressing asylum by the previous Govt? Rwanda money?

    "13,000 additional neighbourhood police and community PCSOs; and specialist
    domestic abuse advisers in 999 control rooms at peak times

    Police Efficiency and Collaboration Programme

    Amount re-allocated,annualised,
    £400m

    A rough estimate of cost to employ is to double an individuals salary* when you factor in NI, pension, training, equipment, etc etc etc. I would presume things like police training is much more costly than employing a new office worker and having them to do the H&S, First Aid, CPD.

    * obviously we are talking normal salaries not CEO comp.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Dyson creates wealth in... Malaysia.
    Reeves destroys wealth in Britain
    Christ on a bike. Do you have a selection of dumb posts that you can easily select to slag off Reeves.

    My earlier post was not uncritical but all yours are a not a particularly imaginative version of "Reeves is shit".

    Anyway I'm off to work. I can't spend all day with all you job seeker claimants.
    "Reeves is shit"
    Im glad to see youre coming round to my point of view
    I didn't say that. It was a simple precis of all your posts.

    You'd save everyone a lot of reading time if you just posted "Reeves is shit" every post. Your posts generally say nothing more, so that saves both you and us time.
    Quite possibly, but the sentiment is correct. Reeves IS shit.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,884
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    ...

    Dopermean said:

    Turkey attacks Christmas over menu.

    I am not sure the NI changes were wise, but tumbling Dyson's and Clarkson's inheritance tax avoidance game is fine by me.
    Dyson creates wealth Reeves doesnt. Who should we listen to ?
    Are you mixing up Dyson's very fine vacuum cleaners, of which I own three, with his land-banking?
    Aren;t you?
    Dyson has been successful with marketing and brittle plastics, personally I hate his vacuum cleaners, which are sold on a misrepresentation (there is a filter that will block and kill the motor if it's not replaced) and offer nothing that a good spec 1990's electrolux couldn't do while collecting everything in a convenient bag.
    Apart from that he wants to employ people in Malaysia (on Malaysian wages, Ts and Cs) but have them working in the UK.
    But he might deserve some credit for his apprenticeship scheme, time will tell.
    That is a fair analysis. The designs are not as clever as claimed. I have the hand held cyclonic "animal" cleaner. You know the one where the collection cylinder is too narrow to collect beagle hair and blocks to the point of being unusable after 30 seconds. Henry and the GTech are a better combination.
    We are a Henry / Gtech household. What I love about Henry is the ease of dragging it around and bashing about the walls. Truly the professional’s choice.

    Both are regional British businesses too.
    I think I’ve seen Henry in hotels on at least three continents.

    A quiet British success story compared to consumer brands such as Dyson.
    And still made in Chard, Somerset.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Of course PR was not on the ballot in 2011 only AV.

    At the moment FPTP hits Reform most, so no surprise to see their supporters most in favour of a switch of to PR given 14% of the vote in July got Reform a mere 0.7% of MPs. In 2011 many Reform voters would have been Tory or working class Labour supporters who voted No to AV.

    LD supporters also in favour though the over 70 MPs they now have means their 12% of the vote is more fairly reflected than it was. Labour voters in favour more narrowly and no surprise given 34% of the vote won them a massive 63% of the seats.

    Tories now also effectlvely split and with FPTP supporters just 2% ahead of PR backers now in Badenoch's party.
    FPTP hit the Tories too in July with 24% of the vote giving them only 19% of the seats
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