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The Planning Problem – politicalbetting.com

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  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited December 3
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    It wasn’t the Government making people raid their pensions - it was papers like the Telegraph reporting their own rumours as fact
    Unless it was a cunning ploy by the Treasury to realise lots of CGT (etc) before the budget...

    (dons tinfoil hat)
  • Good article.

    What Andy is proposing is something I have gone on about for a long time on here - the Dutch system. Councils buy the land, put in all the services and then sell the plots to individuals for them to either self build or get a builder to do it for them. It undercuts the developers, stops land banking and prevents land speculation. Developers can still buy a tranch of plots but they will then be insentivised to build on them ASAP as they will already have paid out for the prepared land and can't hold out to force the council to give planning permission for land outside the scheme.

    I can see the attraction.

    An alternative I’ve seen recently aimed at land banks is charging a percentage of the expected council tax to the developer from the granting of permission.

    I’m told that there are 1.5m permissions unbuilt.

    The LGA are definitely thinking that one through as a request for change. I am not convinced that Labour are independent of development voices. So I’m not holding my breath.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932
    eek said:

    kjh said:

    Good article.

    What Andy is proposing is something I have gone on about for a long time on here - the Dutch system. Councils buy the land, put in all the services and then sell the plots to individuals for them to either self build or get a builder to do it for them. It undercuts the developers, stops land banking and prevents land speculation. Developers can still buy a tranch of plots but they will then be insentivised to build on them ASAP as they will already have paid out for the prepared land and can't hold out to force the council to give planning permission for land outside the scheme.

    Excellent article @Andy_Cooke. I also like @Richard_Tyndall suggestion above, although I say that without putting any thought into it, but on the face of it, it makes sense.

    One of the things Andy shows, as with all complex things, it is dead easy for us here (and some of us here are much worse than this that others, @leon I am looking at you) to rant and rave about stuff and spout simple solutions, when in reality (for those that know the detail rather than reading about it on some blog) know it is far far, far more difficult.

    Living in a village that was recently taken out of the Green belt and consequently has had a little boom in house building which although not wanted has gone quite well. However it seems noticeable that houses are built without the consequential infrastructure. In the case here there is nowhere for the children to go to school. Although it was pointed out by many it was ignored. It is difficult to believe those making the decisions can be that stupid so the conclusion I come to is building a new junior and secondary school was just a bridge to far at the early stages. Wait until it becomes an emergency and then it has to be done. Am I being cynical?

    PS falling rolls doesn't cut it. When you add all the villages together taken out of the green belt plus a new small town without a single new school place in an area already over subscribed it is a obvious problem.
    Since 2010 new schools are not a problem for local councils they are an issue for the department of education
    The people it is a problem for are the people living there though. And this really is a demonstration of the problems @Andy_Cooke lists out. This stuff is difficult. One shouldn't ignore a problem because it isn't your problem and I hope they don't do that although the one piece of evidence I do have is they appear to do so.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069
    edited December 3
    MattW said:

    On the pink Jaguar concept car.

    It seems to me to be part Lady Penelope from Thunderbirds inspired (aka FAB1), and part Tesla Cybertruck inspired.

    As with most things, for the Cybertruck Elon Musk presents with borderline psychopathic tendencies. "F*ck you and your laws, your society and your welfare, I'm going to do what I want."

    We don't need to worry about the Cybertruck. That's such a dangerous killing machine that it is never coming to Europe in quantity - even the current loboto-Conservatives aren't stupid enough to try that one on.

    The problem I have with the Jag is that (like the Cybertruck) it's a design for Micropenis Man - someone inadequate who feels he needs a huge, expensive automobile to prove his manhood to himself, whilst not giving a damn about others. In the scheme of reality, the best description I can come up with for it is "unnecessary".

    Fab 1 vs Jaguar Concept (my photo quota - took a bit of tweaking):

    Given the adverts, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
    But my first instinct is that it looks very difficult to drive. The bonnet is so long, the roof so low, that it looks like your view of the road would be very partial. Your ability to see what's coming from the right at a priority junction would also be limited.
    Reminds me more of this:

  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    This highlights the poor pay of public servants , life is tough in the civil service
    Top Nicola Sturgeon civil servant who destroyed covid WhatsApp messages retired on £1.4m pension

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-nicola-sturgeon-civil-servant-34229739

    They work so hard for so little.

    I am so happy they will move to 4 days a week for no loss of pay. It is what they deserve for their hard work and diligence.
    If you are on a four day week it’s because they are part time or doing compressed hours.

    The only councils looking at 4 day weeks are doing so because it’s the only way they can recruit
    I was making a joke to Malc.

    Don't be so literal.

    Bet you are fun at parties :wink:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,880
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Very good article, thanks Andy Cooke.

    On A_View_From_Cumbria's point, if 1947 is the touch point, I don't think it was immediate that housing went wrong - housebuilding was a strong driver of people "never having it so good" in the 50s and 60s, so what went wrong? Was it all Andy's accrual of precedent?

    Indeed. Housebuilding collapsed in the late ‘70s with local authorities stopping building houses.
    The usual narrative on house building is distorted by ignoring the much higher rate of demolitions we used to have.

    image

    https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1803850784536236444
    Not wanting to poke the estimable Mr Conway in the eye, but that chart has its own problems.

    For a start how many of his "net dwellings" are Permitted Development Conversions from Offices, which are not known for being to adequate standards, and have been extensive since 2013?

    And why do his stats start in 1970 - where the numbers had already significantly rolled off (graph at link - not using my quota for this) - and we were into high inflation and the oil crisis? And - yes - extensive "slum clearance" in that period, which was sometimes "we want a big project and this is in the way".

    https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/House_building_since_1920s_NOV_17.png

    This other graph from him in that thread is very interesting, showing that the Labour election target was lower than either the Tories or the Lib Dems.

    Despite everything that gets complained about, we have the adults in the Government.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQiQaYUW4AArBP_?format=jpg&name=900x900
    Labour's planning target was mandated though
    Conservative Planning targets were mandated up until December 2022 - so for 90% of the 14 years for which they controlled the Government, and were only removed by Rishi Sunak in the face of a threatened rebellion by Tory MPs, and then as an election gimmick.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/05/sunak-backs-down-on-housebuilding-targets-after-pressure-from-tory-mps

    Up until that time they were quite happy with it and it had helped achieve significant success in increasing housebuilding after the GFC. Albeit their measures were mainly tactical, not strategic.

    (I'll leave aside the - as far as I can see - entirely false claim in the manifesto that they had delivered 2.5 million houses:

    We have delivered over 2.5 million homes since 2010, including meeting our commitment to deliver one million homes in the last Parliament
    https://public.conservatives.com/publicweb/GE2024/Accessible-Manifesto/Accessible-PDF-Conservative-Manifesto-2024.pdf page 54)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    This highlights the poor pay of public servants , life is tough in the civil service
    Top Nicola Sturgeon civil servant who destroyed covid WhatsApp messages retired on £1.4m pension

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-nicola-sturgeon-civil-servant-34229739

    They work so hard for so little.

    I am so happy they will move to 4 days a week for no loss of pay. It is what they deserve for their hard work and diligence.
    If you are on a four day week it’s because they are part time or doing compressed hours.

    The only councils looking at 4 day weeks are doing so because it’s the only way they can recruit
    I was making a joke to Malc.

    Don't be so literal.

    Bet you are fun at parties :wink:
    I was at a lunch on Friday where the topic of conversation was a councils complete inability to recruit at the pay they can afford
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    a
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    On the pink Jaguar concept car.

    It seems to me to be part Lady Penelope from Thunderbirds inspired (aka FAB1), and part Tesla Cybertruck inspired.

    As with most things, for the Cybertruck Elon Musk presents with borderline psychopathic tendencies. "F*ck you and your laws, your society and your welfare, I'm going to do what I want."

    We don't need to worry about the Cybertruck. That's such a dangerous killing machine that it is never coming to Europe in quantity - even the current loboto-Conservatives aren't stupid enough to try that one on.

    The problem I have with the Jag is that (like the Cybertruck) it's a design for Micropenis Man - someone inadequate who feels he needs a huge, expensive automobile to prove his manhood to himself, whilst not giving a damn about others. In the scheme of reality, the best description I can come up with for it is "unnecessary".

    Fab 1 vs Jaguar Concept (my photo quota - took a bit of tweaking):

    Given the adverts, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
    But my first instinct is that it looks very difficult to drive. The bonnet is so long, the roof so low, that it looks like your view of the road would be very partial. Your ability to see what's coming from the right at a priority junction would also be limited.
    Reminds me more of this:

    It’s an exaggerated version of a 1940s car design.

    As I pointed out above, it’s the future from the point of view of Doc E E Smith.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,435

    a

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    On the pink Jaguar concept car.

    It seems to me to be part Lady Penelope from Thunderbirds inspired (aka FAB1), and part Tesla Cybertruck inspired.

    As with most things, for the Cybertruck Elon Musk presents with borderline psychopathic tendencies. "F*ck you and your laws, your society and your welfare, I'm going to do what I want."

    We don't need to worry about the Cybertruck. That's such a dangerous killing machine that it is never coming to Europe in quantity - even the current loboto-Conservatives aren't stupid enough to try that one on.

    The problem I have with the Jag is that (like the Cybertruck) it's a design for Micropenis Man - someone inadequate who feels he needs a huge, expensive automobile to prove his manhood to himself, whilst not giving a damn about others. In the scheme of reality, the best description I can come up with for it is "unnecessary".

    Fab 1 vs Jaguar Concept (my photo quota - took a bit of tweaking):

    Given the adverts, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
    But my first instinct is that it looks very difficult to drive. The bonnet is so long, the roof so low, that it looks like your view of the road would be very partial. Your ability to see what's coming from the right at a priority junction would also be limited.
    Reminds me more of this:

    It’s an exaggerated version of a 1940s car design.

    As I pointed out above, it’s the future from the point of view of Doc E E Smith.
    It's all got us talking about Jaguar. Which we were not before. Even if we watch Formula E...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405
    edited December 3
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    It wasn’t the Government making people raid their pensions - it was papers like the Telegraph reporting their own rumours as fact
    What's the issue with withdrawing a tax free sum ? She could cycle it back into ISAs over the next 7 years if she likes and stick it into various savings and regular savings in the meantime. Sure she'll lose a bit of cash if markets go up in the meantime but it's not the end of the world.
  • Just a question - I know the point being made was tongue in cheek - if people want to work four days then why shouldn’t they?

    If hours worked are the measure of productivity, why are we so far behind France who work fewer?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,932

    Fishing said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Very good article, thanks Andy Cooke.

    On A_View_From_Cumbria's point, if 1947 is the touch point, I don't think it was immediate that housing went wrong - housebuilding was a strong driver of people "never having it so good" in the 50s and 60s, so what went wrong? Was it all Andy's accrual of precedent?

    ...
    Another question is why it wasn't such an issue in the 70s and 80s. I think it didn't matter too much when this country's population was broadly stable or slightly increasing, at least once the postwar housing shortage had been addressed. But when the population started soaring with uncontrolled immigration under Blair, we suddenly needed hundreds of thousands of new houses a year just to stand still.


    One element is that more and more restrictions have been placed on the flexibility of LAs and a second is reduced funding. It was indeed much easier in the past for LAs to self-issue planning permissions. These days, every single hoop has to be jumped through and more - to demonstrate you're not getting an unfair benefit.

    Example: in my ward, a landowner wants to work with the LA on a sizeable plot, intended to provide attractive homes, a big chunk of affordable homes, some self-build plots, and integrate seamlessly with the local infrastructure. It's taken years and is still going through early stages, because we have no short-cuts and much less funding than the big developers.

    Good article.

    What Andy is proposing is something I have gone on about for a long time on here - the Dutch system. Councils buy the land, put in all the services and then sell the plots to individuals for them to either self build or get a builder to do it for them. It undercuts the developers, stops land banking and prevents land speculation. Developers can still buy a tranch of plots but they will then be insentivised to build on them ASAP as they will already have paid out for the prepared land and can't hold out to force the council to give planning permission for land outside the scheme.

    There are other huge benefits to this way, many of which won't be readily apparent at a glance.

    Firstly: the taking-the-piss element goes away (largely). In my examples of externalities, one stands out: the open-cast mine example. That's because that is the only one I haven't personally encountered on planning in my LA.

    Secondly: conditions become meaningful if the LA operates them. We issue a bunch of conditions on most large planning approvals (operate at certain times, have a car-park on site so you don't seize up the local roads, don't block people in, don't dig up the archaeological barrow, that sort of thing). Developers have a habit of ignoring these, and when we try to enforce them, we have to "show all reasonable endeavours" to come to a non-legal resolution. By which time, they've finished, because that takes years. If the LA owns the site, they can enforce the conditions.

    Thirdly: no need for management companies and payments for the public open spaces. These are becoming a bane, up there with the developers themselves. Residents are getting shafted and are rightly angry about it, and there's nothing we can do; we have no authority. The LA would own and operate the public open spaces, which is what people tend to expect. If the LA shaft the residents, the residents get to demonstrate their anger at the ballot box, and quite right, too.

    Fourthly: if the infrastructure comes in under the LA's control, they can ensure roads get built to adoptable standards, sewerage is upgraded ahead of time, sports facilities are built on schedule (all of these examples from my own ward of NOT happening with developers, and with us having no power to do anything about it).

    Convincing article on an obvious unsolved problem. I hope Andy will get his MP to take it up.
    @NickPalmer very good. I'm guessing for many people they won't remember the background of your debate with Andy on your joint constituency.

    Anyway just for your info Olly is fronting the campaigning in Parliament that I am involved in. So another good opportunity to thank you @NickPalmer (and remember the nice lunch we had together) and thank @Andy_Cooke for putting me in touch with Olly.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 717
    One way to stop land-banking is to make developers start paying Council Tax after say two years after outline planning permission being granted. Build or pay.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    It wasn’t the Government making people raid their pensions - it was papers like the Telegraph reporting their own rumours as fact
    Exactly and then presenting the stupid people who made a stupid decision as the victim.

    There was a lot of drivel in the Telegraph about the budget prior to it.

    If people want to take rumour as fact and act on it then that is their problem.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,978
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    This highlights the poor pay of public servants , life is tough in the civil service
    Top Nicola Sturgeon civil servant who destroyed covid WhatsApp messages retired on £1.4m pension

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-nicola-sturgeon-civil-servant-34229739

    They work so hard for so little.

    I am so happy they will move to 4 days a week for no loss of pay. It is what they deserve for their hard work and diligence.
    If you are on a four day week it’s because they are part time or doing compressed hours.

    The only councils looking at 4 day weeks are doing so because it’s the only way they can recruit
    I was making a joke to Malc.

    Don't be so literal.

    Bet you are fun at parties :wink:
    I was at a lunch on Friday where the topic of conversation was a councils complete inability to recruit at the pay they can afford
    Sounds a blast.
  • It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    It wasn’t the Government making people raid their pensions - it was papers like the Telegraph reporting their own rumours as fact
    What's the issue with withdrawing a tax free sum ? She could cycle it back into ISAs over the next 7 years if she likes and stick it into various savings and regular savings in the meantime. Sure she'll lose a bit of cash if markets go up in the meantime but it's not the end of the world.
    I think the issue is now the lump sum has been taken you can only put a very small payment into the pension
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,521
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Very good article, thanks Andy Cooke.

    On A_View_From_Cumbria's point, if 1947 is the touch point, I don't think it was immediate that housing went wrong - housebuilding was a strong driver of people "never having it so good" in the 50s and 60s, so what went wrong? Was it all Andy's accrual of precedent?

    Indeed. Housebuilding collapsed in the late ‘70s with local authorities stopping building houses.
    The usual narrative on house building is distorted by ignoring the much higher rate of demolitions we used to have.

    image

    https://x.com/edconwaysky/status/1803850784536236444
    Not wanting to poke the estimable Mr Conway in the eye, but that chart has its own problems.

    For a start how many of his "net dwellings" are Permitted Development Conversions from Offices, which are not known for being to adequate standards, and have been extensive since 2013?

    And why do his stats start in 1970 - where the numbers had already significantly rolled off (graph at link - not using my quota for this) - and we were into high inflation and the oil crisis? And - yes - extensive "slum clearance" in that period, which was sometimes "we want a big project and this is in the way".

    https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/House_building_since_1920s_NOV_17.png

    This other graph from him in that thread is very interesting, showing that the Labour election target was lower than either the Tories or the Lib Dems.

    Despite everything that gets complained about, we have the adults in the Government.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQiQaYUW4AArBP_?format=jpg&name=900x900
    Labour's planning target was mandated though
    Conservative Planning targets were mandated up until December 2022 - so for 90% of the 14 years for which they controlled the Government, and were only removed by Rishi Sunak in the face of a threatened rebellion by Tory MPs, and then as an election gimmick.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/05/sunak-backs-down-on-housebuilding-targets-after-pressure-from-tory-mps

    Up until that time they were quite happy with it and it had helped achieve significant success in increasing housebuilding after the GFC. Albeit their measures were mainly tactical, not strategic.

    (I'll leave aside the - as far as I can see - entirely false claim in the manifesto that they had delivered 2.5 million houses:

    We have delivered over 2.5 million homes since 2010, including meeting our commitment to deliver one million homes in the last Parliament
    https://public.conservatives.com/publicweb/GE2024/Accessible-Manifesto/Accessible-PDF-Conservative-Manifesto-2024.pdf page 54)
    Bizarrely, the Conservatives actually performed better in Hertsmere, on July 4th, than in the County Council elections of 2021.

    The reason? The Lib Dems and Labour fought the County elections on a pledge of no more housebuildiing in Hertsmere. Given this is Oliver Dowden's constituency, no doubt the government took fright.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    Not while we're importing so many people.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    People can build whatever and wherever they like?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited December 3
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    This highlights the poor pay of public servants , life is tough in the civil service
    Top Nicola Sturgeon civil servant who destroyed covid WhatsApp messages retired on £1.4m pension

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-nicola-sturgeon-civil-servant-34229739

    They work so hard for so little.

    I am so happy they will move to 4 days a week for no loss of pay. It is what they deserve for their hard work and diligence.
    If you are on a four day week it’s because they are part time or doing compressed hours.

    The only councils looking at 4 day weeks are doing so because it’s the only way they can recruit
    I was making a joke to Malc.

    Don't be so literal.

    Bet you are fun at parties :wink:
    I was at a lunch on Friday where the topic of conversation was a councils complete inability to recruit at the pay they can afford
    Sounds a blast.
    Hey when you left the department 5 months ago, 4 other people (out of a total of 10) have left since and no-one is answering the job adverts the issue is becomes rather pressing.

    And given that we are talking planning departments it’s vaguely on topic
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    On the pink Jaguar concept car.

    It seems to me to be part Lady Penelope from Thunderbirds inspired (aka FAB1), and part Tesla Cybertruck inspired.

    As with most things, for the Cybertruck Elon Musk presents with borderline psychopathic tendencies. "F*ck you and your laws, your society and your welfare, I'm going to do what I want."

    We don't need to worry about the Cybertruck. That's such a dangerous killing machine that it is never coming to Europe in quantity - even the current loboto-Conservatives aren't stupid enough to try that one on.

    The problem I have with the Jag is that (like the Cybertruck) it's a design for Micropenis Man - someone inadequate who feels he needs a huge, expensive automobile to prove his manhood to himself, whilst not giving a damn about others. In the scheme of reality, the best description I can come up with for it is "unnecessary".

    Fab 1 vs Jaguar Concept (my photo quota - took a bit of tweaking):

    Given the adverts, it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
    But my first instinct is that it looks very difficult to drive. The bonnet is so long, the roof so low, that it looks like your view of the road would be very partial. Your ability to see what's coming from the right at a priority junction would also be limited.
    Reminds me more of this:

    FAB1: " Measuring seven feet (2.1 m) in length, the plywood model, which was equipped with fully functional steering and headlights, cost £2,500 to build in 1964 which is equivalent to £30,000 today."

  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,069

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    I don't think that's true. Head to America and see what urbanism looks like in a world without planning. (Or less planning - there are still regulations.)
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 193
    edited December 3


    As I pointed out above, it’s the future from the point of view of Doc E E Smith.



    E E Doc Smith.

    The leather jodhpurs.. ooooh :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    A completely lunatic idea.
    He might revisit that idea when an abbattoir gets built next door...
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,944
    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    brexit is waving from the corner....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    It wasn’t the Government making people raid their pensions - it was papers like the Telegraph reporting their own rumours as fact
    Unless it was a cunning ploy by the Treasury to realise lots of CGT (etc) before the budget...

    (dons tinfoil hat)
    why would there be CGT on a tax free lump sum.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Good morning everyone. Quite a pleasant morning here.

    Must say that the new Jaguar looks more like a status symbol than a useful means of transport.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    This highlights the poor pay of public servants , life is tough in the civil service
    Top Nicola Sturgeon civil servant who destroyed covid WhatsApp messages retired on £1.4m pension

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-nicola-sturgeon-civil-servant-34229739

    They work so hard for so little.

    I am so happy they will move to 4 days a week for no loss of pay. It is what they deserve for their hard work and diligence.
    If you are on a four day week it’s because they are part time or doing compressed hours.

    The only councils looking at 4 day weeks are doing so because it’s the only way they can recruit
    I was making a joke to Malc.

    Don't be so literal.

    Bet you are fun at parties :wink:
    I was at a lunch on Friday where the topic of conversation was a councils complete inability to recruit at the pay they can afford
    Sounds a blast.
    Hey when you left the department 5 months ago, 4 other people (out of a total of 10) have left since and no-one is answering the job adverts the issue is becomes rather pressing.

    And given that we are talking planning departments it’s vaguely on topic
    left due to having 1.4M and what a joke , compressed hours my butt.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,030

    Good morning everyone. Quite a pleasant morning here.

    Must say that the new Jaguar looks more like a status symbol than a useful means of transport.

    It looks ridiculous.
  • eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    This highlights the poor pay of public servants , life is tough in the civil service
    Top Nicola Sturgeon civil servant who destroyed covid WhatsApp messages retired on £1.4m pension

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/top-nicola-sturgeon-civil-servant-34229739

    They work so hard for so little.

    I am so happy they will move to 4 days a week for no loss of pay. It is what they deserve for their hard work and diligence.
    If you are on a four day week it’s because they are part time or doing compressed hours.

    The only councils looking at 4 day weeks are doing so because it’s the only way they can recruit
    I was making a joke to Malc.

    Don't be so literal.

    Bet you are fun at parties :wink:
    I was at a lunch on Friday where the topic of conversation was a councils complete inability to recruit at the pay they can afford
    Sounds a blast.
    Hey when you left the department 5 months ago, 4 other people (out of a total of 10) have left since and no-one is answering the job adverts the issue is becomes rather pressing.

    And given that we are talking planning departments it’s vaguely on topic
    It’s a disaster that I can’t see a way out of. Things seem to have passed a tipping point almost 50% of roles unfilled. The day rate for agency staff is quite startling. We have people costing more than £1k per day.

    Why would they apply to work for us permanently ?
  • It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    A completely lunatic idea.
    He might revisit that idea when an abbattoir gets built next door...
    A neighbour with a helicopter blowing your garden furniture around and laughing about it is one that I’ve already had happen.

    It’s gonna be fun.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    It wasn’t the Government making people raid their pensions - it was papers like the Telegraph reporting their own rumours as fact
    What's the issue with withdrawing a tax free sum ? She could cycle it back into ISAs over the next 7 years if she likes and stick it into various savings and regular savings in the meantime. Sure she'll lose a bit of cash if markets go up in the meantime but it's not the end of the world.
    I think the issue is now the lump sum has been taken you can only put a very small payment into the pension
    Not the case, you can take the lump sum and as long as you don't then start drawdown you can start a new one and pay in what you want to limit.
  • I see the Daily Mail are now fully on the cancel people train.

    Meanwhile, the BBC, fresh from accusations of misogyny about Gregg Wallace, have decided to follow up naming a man as woman footballer of the year, by naming a man (cosplaying a woman), in their BBC top 100 women of 2024.

    Certain types of misogyny are loved by the BBC, who insert them into every single story that they can. Vile organisation.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Good article.

    What Andy is proposing is something I have gone on about for a long time on here - the Dutch system. Councils buy the land, put in all the services and then sell the plots to individuals for them to either self build or get a builder to do it for them. It undercuts the developers, stops land banking and prevents land speculation. Developers can still buy a tranch of plots but they will then be insentivised to build on them ASAP as they will already have paid out for the prepared land and can't hold out to force the council to give planning permission for land outside the scheme.

    I can see the attraction.

    An alternative I’ve seen recently aimed at land banks is charging a percentage of the expected council tax to the developer from the granting of permission.

    I’m told that there are 1.5m permissions unbuilt.

    The LGA are definitely thinking that one through as a request for change. I am not convinced that Labour are independent of development voices. So I’m not holding my breath.
    It would also mean that building happens where the council has intended, rather than well funded/connected developers pushing through approval where building wasn't intended.
    For example in my parents' village planning approvals within the village envelope have been blocked (generally unreasonably) but a small number of"holiday homes" got approval on an exhausted gravel pit outside the envelope with no road access or services. Even worse the developer was allowed to place them round the
    perimeter of the site so it will be hard to oppose infill.
  • RobD said:

    Good morning everyone. Quite a pleasant morning here.

    Must say that the new Jaguar looks more like a status symbol than a useful means of transport.

    It looks ridiculous.
    It looks beautiful.

    I have excellent judgment when it comes to style and aesthetics.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    RobD said:

    Good morning everyone. Quite a pleasant morning here.

    Must say that the new Jaguar looks more like a status symbol than a useful means of transport.

    It looks ridiculous.
    It looks beautiful.

    I have excellent judgment when it comes to style and aesthetics.
    I don't think it's what Apple would have come up with if they hadn't abandoned their car project.
  • Really well-informed, interesting article by Andy. Thanks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 3
    Enlightening but depressing threader

    I sometimes get the feeling Britain is far too gone. She’s unfixable. Like a beloved old car with multiple problems making weird noises and you finally take her to the garage for repairs. And after an hour the mechanic emerges with a glum face and a sad shrug and says “Sorry. I mean, you could… but…”
  • RobD said:

    Good morning everyone. Quite a pleasant morning here.

    Must say that the new Jaguar looks more like a status symbol than a useful means of transport.

    It looks ridiculous.
    It looks beautiful.

    I have excellent judgment when it comes to style and aesthetics.
    Me too. I think to make it perfect, purple fins and a whale tail rear wing. Gold wheels. A scoop? Love those.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    Not while we're importing so many people.
    Was it only 15% or something actually came here to work ?!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Maybe that’s why Labour have brought in Assisted Self Murder. They’re going to do a Party Political Broadcast to the Entire Nation and Sir Keir Starmer, KC, is going to appear wearing blackface. A surprising decision for many, until he starts speaking with the voice of the Reverend Jim Jones
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    Leon said:

    Enlightening but depressing threader

    I sometimes get the feeling Britain is far too gone. She’s unfixable. Like a beloved old car with multiple problems making weird noises and you finally take her to the garage for repairs. And after an hour the mechanic emerges with a glum face and a sad shrug and says “Sorry. I mean, you could… but…”

    Of course this country isn't unfixable. We don't have any huge imminent natural disasters or incoming nuclear weapons as far as I know. We just have a strikingly poor, arrogant and lazy political class and an indifferent and complacent electorate.

    In fact, there's a clear precedent. People thought the same in the 70s but radical reform happened. It was painful at the time, often didn't go far enough and much though not all of it has been reversed, but there is no reason to think that it's impossible to repeat it.
  • Taz said:

    Stupid person makes stupid decision and regrets it. It's the governments fault apparently.

    Even by the Telegraphs standards this is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/labour-made-me-raid-my-pension-in-a-panic-now-i-can-t-reverse-my-decision/ar-AA1vaWCL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=ba9a7206f5b943458e011f8d0477d360&ei=18

    From the article: She told The Telegraph: “I wanted to take the cash as I thought I might not ever get this chance again. There was nothing in particular I wanted to use the money for".

    This reminds me of when I bought a vomiting pygmy hippo because of a rumour the Government was going to ban them. I didn't particularly want one, and now I have a house full of pygmy hippo vomit. Thanks very bloody much, Rachel Reeves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    On topic, thanks Andy.

    Yes, brilliant header.

    ..Give the LAs upfront funding to LDO all of the sites in their Local Plan – and to buy them at, say, triple the pre-uplift rate for land (so landowners get an incentive to sell, and the LA then gets most of the uplift in value from planning permission). Fund a one-off “getting ahead of the curve” push for the local infrastructure. Then, after the near-complete planning permission, they can sell off slots to developers (including smaller developers) or even self-build-support companies. The uplift in land values more than compensates for the original buying of the land AND the infrastructure, so you use that to fund the next tranche. And so on.

    You’ve flipped the overloaded local infrastructure problem on its head...


    I've been arguing the for ages. It's the only way anything of significance will get built quickly. Just do it.

    The rest of the technical planning stuff - Andy knows a lot more than me, but what he's written seems to make a great deal of sense.

    Bonus mark for Chesterton's fences.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    Leon said:

    Maybe that’s why Labour have brought in Assisted Self Murder. They’re going to do a Party Political Broadcast to the Entire Nation and Sir Keir Starmer, KC, is going to appear wearing blackface. A surprising decision for many, until he starts speaking with the voice of the Reverend Jim Jones

    You ARE having a bad day, aren't you!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited December 3
    Cookie said:

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    I don't think that's true. Head to America and see what urbanism looks like in a world without planning. (Or less planning - there are still regulations.)
    Actually, often the US has more rules. For example insanely prescriptive rules about “Code” - how the detail of the house is built. The hideous sprawl stuff is generally mandatory - down to zoning.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268
    Leon said:

    Maybe that’s why Labour have brought in Assisted Self Murder. They’re going to do a Party Political Broadcast to the Entire Nation and Sir Keir Starmer, KC, is going to appear wearing blackface. A surprising decision for many, until he starts speaking with the voice of the Reverend Jim Jones

    You can’t really accuse Starmer of leading a personality cult.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Pro_Rata said:

    Very good article, thanks Andy Cooke.

    On A_View_From_Cumbria's point, if 1947 is the touch point, I don't think it was immediate that housing went wrong - housebuilding was a strong driver of people "never having it so good" in the 50s and 60s, so what went wrong? Was it all Andy's accrual of precedent?

    Partly that - and partly the steady evisceration of the role of local government in building and maintaining housing, over the last four decades.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    HYUFD said:

    President-elect Donald Trump has nominated businessman Warren Stephens to serve as America’s ambassador to the United Kingdom.

    “Warren has always dreamed of serving the United States full time,” Trump said in a statement on Truth Social. “I am thrilled that he will now have that opportunity as the top diplomat, representing the USA to one of America’s most cherished and beloved allies.”

    Stephens, who is CEO of private Arkansas-based investment bank Stephens Inc, donated millions to Trump’s re-election campaign this year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20e79nlpe6o

    At least he's not an ex con, like the French one.
    (Is he ?)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 3

    Leon said:

    Maybe that’s why Labour have brought in Assisted Self Murder. They’re going to do a Party Political Broadcast to the Entire Nation and Sir Keir Starmer, KC, is going to appear wearing blackface. A surprising decision for many, until he starts speaking with the voice of the Reverend Jim Jones

    You ARE having a bad day, aren't you!

    Actually quite a good day. My exhausting trip to Tayrona National Park (which I have already seen in detail) has been cancelled. Meaning I can lounge
    around the sunny old plazas, beachside caffs and shady boho-bars of Santa Marta, reading a combination of Michael Wood’s Conquistadors and W G Sebald’s Rings of Saturn, in between truly excellent mojitos; then maybe I’ll have a quiet siesta

    At a certain stage in life, life doesn’t get much better than that
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Leon said:

    Enlightening but depressing threader

    I sometimes get the feeling Britain is far too gone. She’s unfixable. Like a beloved old car with multiple problems making weird noises and you finally take her to the garage for repairs. And after an hour the mechanic emerges with a glum face and a sad shrug and says “Sorry. I mean, you could… but…”

    That's the fault of the kids that took it for a joyride in 2016...

    Trashed it for kicks, slashed the tires, pissed in the petrol tank, smashed the windows cos they liked the noise.

    Cheered on by the gullible and feckless cos "he's a laugh, that geezer"

    And now here we are
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,268

    Cookie said:

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    I don't think that's true. Head to America and see what urbanism looks like in a world without planning. (Or less planning - there are still regulations.)
    Actually, often the US has more rules. For example insanely prescriptive rules about “Code” - how the detail of the house is built. The hideous sprawl stuff is generally mandatory - down to zoning.
    And also very bureaucratic with lots of inspections.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    RobD said:

    Good morning everyone. Quite a pleasant morning here.

    Must say that the new Jaguar looks more like a status symbol than a useful means of transport.

    It looks ridiculous.
    It looks beautiful.

    I have excellent judgment when it comes to style and aesthetics.
    I don't think it's what Apple would have come up with if they hadn't abandoned their car project.
    Drive like a Lensman….

    “Into a one-way skyway he rocketed, along it over the suburbs and into the transcontinental super-highway. Edging inward, lane after lane, he reached the "unlimited" way—unlimited, that is, except for being limited to cars of not less than seven hundred horsepower, in perfect mechanical condition, driven by registered, tested drivers at speeds not less than one hundred and twenty-five miles an hour—flashed his registry number at the control station, and shoved his right foot down to the floor.

    Now everyone knows that an ordinary DeKhotinsky Sporter will do a hundred and forty honestly-measured miles in one honestly measured hour; but very few ordinary drivers have ever found out how fast one of those brutal big souped-up Sixteens can wheel. They simply haven't got what it takes to open one up.”
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    The UK has suffered for decades from the selfish greed born during Thatcher ism. The NIMBY cult.

    Prior to that the won't due culture of the excesses of the Red Robbo Union power era.

    It's long suffered from a culture that has no political roots but cultural "can't do" roots. The approval culture that to say can't do is passed off as acceptable when on fact it is lazy "won't do" lack of imagination.

    Decades of poor middle and top management with just a few exceptions.

    Starmer gets this more than many give him credit for. The chance to rid Business and Public Services of the "can't do won't do" masses and to foster the new culture of "can do will do"

    Thats generational change that will require change, investment and ups killing and a fundamental change by stop paying people to do nothing.

    He has touched on this, he'll need a decade at least to make inroads.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Very good article, thanks Andy Cooke.

    On A_View_From_Cumbria's point, if 1947 is the touch point, I don't think it was immediate that housing went wrong - housebuilding was a strong driver of people "never having it so good" in the 50s and 60s, so what went wrong? Was it all Andy's accrual of precedent?

    Partly that - and partly the steady evisceration of the role of local government in building and maintaining housing, over the last four decades.
    With slowing population growth and rising incomes to deal with early house price inflation, the slowly accreting stuff wasn’t a huge issue.

    Then…..
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Has Betfair settled their market on whether Trump gets 50% or not?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    President elect Trump will attend a ceremony for the reopening of the Notre Dame cathedral which will also be attended by 50 heads of state
    https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241203-trump-to-attend-notre-dame-cathedral-reopening-ceremony-in-paris
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited December 3
    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,880
    I'll respond to the header a little later if time allows. I think you are about half-right. But on these points.


    One element is that more and more restrictions have been placed on the flexibility of LAs and a second is reduced funding. It was indeed much easier in the past for LAs to self-issue planning permissions. These days, every single hoop has to be jumped through and more - to demonstrate you're not getting an unfair benefit.

    Example: in my ward, a landowner wants to work with the LA on a sizeable plot, intended to provide attractive homes, a big chunk of affordable homes, some self-build plots, and integrate seamlessly with the local infrastructure. It's taken years and is still going through early stages, because we have no short-cuts and much less funding than the big developers.

    If it's a sizeable, sustainable, viable plot, he should be able to get a developer to work with him. They are judging it the reward vs risk balance. As is he, and that changes as it goes through the process. One issue may be the reduced number of local and mid-tier developers, and the habit of the industry of thinking they can shaft smaller landowners. It's a big-boy trousers game.

    Is he expecting too much personal profit, or can't do it in phases, or wants to do the entire scheme himself, or retain too much control?

    In my terms, "mid-size" plot would be perhaps 100-150 homes - enough for a developer to run a showroom and other overheads for a year or two whilst they sell at 4-5 per month. The sales rate is set by locals buying and mix of house types, as only a small minority will move both job and house at once or ultra-commute - that's human and market sociology.

    (Lessons culled from my experience with a plot of 10 acres of inherited land, and other sources. We went for Outline PP and had to budget an 100k up front buy-in fee to the game of Planning Permission Poker, for all of reports etc, including the £14k local authority fee.)

    Good article.

    Secondly: conditions become meaningful if the LA operates them. We issue a bunch of conditions on most large planning approvals (operate at certain times, have a car-park on site so you don't seize up the local roads, don't block people in, don't dig up the archaeological barrow, that sort of thing). Developers have a habit of ignoring these, and when we try to enforce them, we have to "show all reasonable endeavours" to come to a non-legal resolution. By which time, they've finished, because that takes years. If the LA owns the site, they can enforce the conditions.

    Thirdly: no need for management companies and payments for the public open spaces. These are becoming a bane, up there with the developers themselves. Residents are getting shafted and are rightly angry about it, and there's nothing we can do; we have no authority. The LA would own and operate the public open spaces, which is what people tend to expect. If the LA shaft the residents, the residents get to demonstrate their anger at the ballot box, and quite right, too.

    Fourthly: if the infrastructure comes in under the LA's control, they can ensure roads get built to adoptable standards, sewerage is upgraded ahead of time, sports facilities are built on schedule (all of these examples from my own ward of NOT happening with developers, and with us having no power to do anything about it).

    I think this is somewhat more complex. Adoption of roads etc is dis-incentivised because a developer will have to stump up .. NOW .. for a generation of street light replacements, maybe 40, 60 or 120 years of road maintenance, and all the rest as allowed by law (which is quite unfettered).

    No wonder they prefer management companies, which means that it is revenue expenditure in 25 years by the service fee from each householder, not out of their margin now as an NPV calculation.

    The infra essentially is under local authority control, via various statutory agreements, and planning conditions. Inability to enforce is imo as much about local councils having been starved of funds more decades like inmates of a concentration camp, and is also about capacity.

    Inability to enforce? I'm not that aware of detail of how the legal disputes work day to day, but there are things like STOP notices if push comes to shove. I definitely agree that in practice enforcement is tricky for Building Control - you just have to walk round a newly occupied estate with a thermal camera at this time of year.

    This is one reason why I argue that LAs need a MAJOR lift in funding.
  • Ahem.

    Aubrey Allegretti
    @breeallegretti
    Exc: Keir Starmer urged to ban politicians betting on election outcomes - by the Labour candidate suspended for doing so.

    Kevin Craig says he's been exonerated by the Gambling Commission and re-admitted to Labour, but the ordeal still caused "a huge amount of pain".

    He explains why he placed the bet and what he hopes will be a "constructive" intervention, in his first public comments since the row in June

    https://thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-candidate-calls-for-ban-on-politicians-betting-on-elections-kqlwq6sc8
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173

    Cookie said:

    It is time to remove planning regulations altogether. It’s quite clear they are a failed idea.

    I don't think that's true. Head to America and see what urbanism looks like in a world without planning. (Or less planning - there are still regulations.)
    Actually, often the US has more rules. For example insanely prescriptive rules about “Code” - how the detail of the house is built. The hideous sprawl stuff is generally mandatory - down to zoning.
    Minimum lot sizes, etc.
    But they are also beginning to realise that it's a problem which needs sorting.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited December 3
    algarkirk said:

    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536

    Good to see Mrs Starmer there too. Pity though that while the PM mentioned families and communities coming together for Christmas the atheist First Lord did not mention Jesus Christ once
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,946
    Mr. Leon, we didn't evolve from monkeys. We are monkeys.

    Having an assumption or making a claim without corroborating evidence then slapping "Why" at the start and a question mark at the end isn't incisive.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    26. Why can't anyone give accounts in ordinary English of how replicable life might have started?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Russia 'will take Trump's Ukraine peace deal and tell his ambassador to screw himself because we don't like any of it', Kremlin hardliner warns as NATO says a bad deal is a threat to US security
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14152007/Russia-Trump-Ukraine-peace-deal-Kremlin-hardliner-warns-NATO-bad-deal-threat-security.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536

    Good to see Mrs Starmer there too. Pity though that while the PM mentioned families and communities coming together for Christmas the atheist First Lord did not mention Jesus Christ once
    Mrs Starmer? Starmer's mother? Thought she was dead!

    Or do you mean LADY Starmer, wife of Sir Keir?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536

    Good to see Mrs Starmer there too. Pity though that while the PM mentioned families and communities coming together for Christmas the atheist First Lord did not mention Jesus Christ once
    Mrs Starmer? Starmer's mother? Thought she was dead!

    Or do you mean LADY Starmer, wife of Sir Keir?
    If you insist
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    26. Why can't anyone give accounts in ordinary English of how replicable life might have started?
    27. How come mirrors reflect the wrong way round yet we all accept this as totally normal?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,880
    edited December 3
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    President-elect Donald Trump has nominated businessman Warren Stephens to serve as America’s ambassador to the United Kingdom.

    “Warren has always dreamed of serving the United States full time,” Trump said in a statement on Truth Social. “I am thrilled that he will now have that opportunity as the top diplomat, representing the USA to one of America’s most cherished and beloved allies.”

    Stephens, who is CEO of private Arkansas-based investment bank Stephens Inc, donated millions to Trump’s re-election campaign this year.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20e79nlpe6o

    At least he's not an ex con, like the French one.
    (Is he ?)
    Trump's a current con. :smile:

    And if they had had their act together, he would be in Riker's Island or the USA version of Broadmoor for the rest of his life already.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,173
    Finland announces that another undersea telecommunications cable between Sweden and Finland was cut in 2 locations a few hours ago.

    They suspect sabotage

    https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1863868168302735392
  • HYUFD said:

    President elect Trump will attend a ceremony for the reopening of the Notre Dame cathedral which will also be attended by 50 heads of state
    https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241203-trump-to-attend-notre-dame-cathedral-reopening-ceremony-in-paris

    Trump in a place of worship?

    It will be struck by lightning.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    How about, "why are conspiracy theorists nearly always nutjobs with poor levels of understanding and general education?"
    Actually, I think this MIGHT be a brilliant parody. I mean:


    “13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?”

    That’s genius
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    Italy: Grillo admits defeats in his battle to retain his job as 'guarantor' of M5S by conducting interviews from a hearse he was driving to symbolise the death of the movement's founding principles.

    Completes his epic falling out with Conte who has won member votes to sideline Grillo, define M5S as being on the left and removing 2 term limits for all M5S politicians.

    With the centre looking weak (the centre is where Italian political egos go to die, perhaps Grillo too?) this may open up the long hoped big tent left at all electoral levels: PD have eaten M5S votes during the feud and the left-greens have gained ground too.

    They haven't eaten into the right bloc vote
    much yet, but a more united left that can manage its various crazies will be far more competitive.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/01/the-guardian-view-on-italys-divided-opposition-a-five-star-revolution-can-help-unite-the-left
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536

    Good to see Mrs Starmer there too. Pity though that while the PM mentioned families and communities coming together for Christmas the atheist First Lord did not mention Jesus Christ once
    Mrs Starmer? Starmer's mother? Thought she was dead!

    Or do you mean LADY Starmer, wife of Sir Keir?
    If you insist
    Common courtesy, surely.

    I don't like titles if hereditary but this was earned.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    HYUFD said:

    President elect Trump will attend a ceremony for the reopening of the Notre Dame cathedral which will also be attended by 50 heads of state
    https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241203-trump-to-attend-notre-dame-cathedral-reopening-ceremony-in-paris

    For an entirely secular state this refurbishment of a relic of superstitious medieval buffoonery is getting a lot of attention from the state.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    edited December 3

    Mr. Leon, we didn't evolve from monkeys. We are monkeys.

    Having an assumption or making a claim without corroborating evidence then slapping "Why" at the start and a question mark at the end isn't incisive.

    Mr Dancer, to be pedantic, it is apes that we are/or have descended from.

    Humanity and apes also evolved ultimately (possibly) from Stromatolites. These Stromatolites are said to no longer exist, but this is evidenced to be untrue as they somehow managed to disguise themselves as human and vote for Brexit.
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    Are our Planning Laws to immersed in the fundamental "English man's Home is his Castle" culture that sees bricks and mortar as a possession and an asset. An asset that makes people in parts of the UK unfairy richer than others.

    Contrast to the more Scandinavian model of a property being build to live in, a far more volumous rental model and a culture of bricks and mortar or wood and more wood, being a basic necessity and less of a belonging or asset.

    The give away of our Council Housing stock to buy votes and not to rebuild them with the paltry proceeds endemic of that culture and the root cause of the social housing shortage we now face.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    26. Why can't anyone give accounts in ordinary English of how replicable life might have started?
    27. How come mirrors reflect the wrong way round yet we all accept this as totally normal?
    Mysteriously they reflect the wrong way round right/left but not top and bottom.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,880
    edited December 3
    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    The obvious (26) is "Has the person who posted these to twatter been imbibing too many drugs?" or "Who let the Fortean Times escape?" or "What did my 9 year old child say today?", I'll give you one.

    26 - Why are Chinese Coolie Hats shaped like the cap of a stove pipe chimney?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536

    Good to see Mrs Starmer there too. Pity though that while the PM mentioned families and communities coming together for Christmas the atheist First Lord did not mention Jesus Christ once
    Mrs Starmer? Starmer's mother? Thought she was dead!

    Or do you mean LADY Starmer, wife of Sir Keir?
    If you insist
    Common courtesy, surely.

    I don't like titles if hereditary but this was earned.
    What, by being married to a lawyer? Well, then again I suppose that is something of a sacrifice
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,946
    F1: trying to reconstitute my 2022 results using my blog (lost the spreadsheet when my computer died that year).

    Become re-annoyed by Hamilton's horrendous luck in the Netherlands which saw my very sensible 8.5 bet on him turn red.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited December 3

    Are our Planning Laws to immersed in the fundamental "English man's Home is his Castle" culture that sees bricks and mortar as a possession and an asset. An asset that makes people in parts of the UK unfairy richer than others.

    Contrast to the more Scandinavian model of a property being build to live in, a far more volumous rental model and a culture of bricks and mortar or wood and more wood, being a basic necessity and less of a belonging or asset.

    The give away of our Council Housing stock to buy votes and not to rebuild them with the paltry proceeds endemic of that culture and the root cause of the social housing shortage we now face.

    Median wealth UK $107,739, median wealth Sweden $77,515 and the latter has a lower home ownership rate than the UK.


    Norway by contrast has a higher home ownership rate than the UK and median wealth of $143,887

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

    Even if I agree more council home sale proceeds could be used to build more social housing
  • Shecorns88Shecorns88 Posts: 279
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    26. Why can't anyone give accounts in ordinary English of how replicable life might have started?
    27. How come mirrors reflect the wrong way round yet we all accept this as totally normal?
    Mysteriously they reflect the wrong way round right/left but not top and bottom.
    28 Could a hermaphrodite make themselves pregnant?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    How about, "why are conspiracy theorists nearly always nutjobs with poor levels of understanding and general education?"
    Actually, I think this MIGHT be a brilliant parody. I mean:


    “13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?”

    That’s genius
    Or why was the King carrying the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch at his coronation? Was he afraid of rabbits?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350

    Are our Planning Laws to immersed in the fundamental "English man's Home is his Castle" culture that sees bricks and mortar as a possession and an asset. An asset that makes people in parts of the UK unfairy richer than others.

    Contrast to the more Scandinavian model of a property being build to live in, a far more volumous rental model and a culture of bricks and mortar or wood and more wood, being a basic necessity and less of a belonging or asset.

    The give away of our Council Housing stock to buy votes and not to rebuild them with the paltry proceeds endemic of that culture and the root cause of the social housing shortage we now face.

    Power to the people brother, er sister.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    26. Why can't anyone give accounts in ordinary English of how replicable life might have started?
    27. How come mirrors reflect the wrong way round yet we all accept this as totally normal?
    Mysteriously they reflect the wrong way round right/left but not top and bottom.
    Yes exactly. It’s obviously fake, and not even a good fake, mirrors are a load of bullshit. Don’t trust them. I don’t even look at reflections in spoons any more - if you do you’re just playing their game

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,857

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    How about, "why are conspiracy theorists nearly always nutjobs with poor levels of understanding and general education?"
    It's more complex than that. Conspiracy theorists I know include graduates from proper universities with long professional careers. IMHO what they have in common is a sense that they are more intelligent than they actually are (2.2s who think they are starred firsts) that all the other people are idiots, difficulty with listening, a degree of loneliness, too much time on their hands and (partially correct) a sense that mainstream media isn't doing its job very well so tney look for infallible alternatives.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    President elect Trump will attend a ceremony for the reopening of the Notre Dame cathedral which will also be attended by 50 heads of state
    https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241203-trump-to-attend-notre-dame-cathedral-reopening-ceremony-in-paris

    For an entirely secular state this refurbishment of a relic of superstitious medieval buffoonery is getting a lot of attention from the state.
    The French state technically owns all heritage listed churches and cathedrals in France but the Roman Catholic church has use of them in perpetuity.

    Trump has paid tribute to Macron for his magnificent effort in so rebuilding this great symbol of Christian heritage in France, Pope Francis however has raised eyebrows by declining to attend, his predecessor Pope Benedict would certainly have been there
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Watching Starmer turn on the Christmas lights at No 10 as if he was opening an archive of medieval charters with an audience of retired bishops sort of reminds you of how Boris did that sort of thing.

    https://news.sky.com/video/prime-minster-sir-keir-starmer-turns-on-downing-street-christmas-lights-13265536

    Good to see Mrs Starmer there too. Pity though that while the PM mentioned families and communities coming together for Christmas the atheist First Lord did not mention Jesus Christ once
    Mrs Starmer? Starmer's mother? Thought she was dead!

    Or do you mean LADY Starmer, wife of Sir Keir?
    If you insist
    Common courtesy, surely.

    I don't like titles if hereditary but this was earned.
    By marrying a senior lawyer and politician I suppose
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,946
    Mr. Leo, you may say it's obviously fake, but perhaps you've never seen a Creationist argue bananas are proof of God's existence.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    26. Why can't anyone give accounts in ordinary English of how replicable life might have started?
    27. How come mirrors reflect the wrong way round yet we all accept this as totally normal?
    The "why is left-right reversed in a mirror but not top-bottom?" was a favourite mindfuck question of one of my undergrad physics lecturers that he used to pose to freshers :lol:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,435

    Leon said:

    Just found this on TwiX. I don’t generally approve of random cutting and pasting, but this feels so acute and perceptive I’ll break my rule. It’s a simple list of simple questions, and yet it gets right to the heart


    “Questions To Ask Ourselves:

    1. What is an Egyptian pyramid doing on a US dollar bill?

    2. Why did 56 countries sign a treaty not to take risks and enter Antarctica?

    3. Why do planes never fly over Antarctica?

    4. How did NASA "lose" the photos of the moon landing, one of the most important moments for humanity?

    5. If Neil Armstrong was the first to walk on the moon, who held the camera?

    6. Why haven't we gone back to the moon?

    7. If monkeys evolved into humans, why are there still monkeys?

    8. Why does 95% of our DNA exist as "junk"? Who decided it was actually "garbage"?

    9. How were huge, symmetrical, detailed, sacred, and geometrically regular structures such as cathedrals and parliamentary buildings created by people who lived in log cabins, rode horse-drawn carriages, and had no machines or lasers?

    10. How is it that similar pre-Columbian architecture is found all over the world?

    11. Why are there images in ancient Egyptian art that resemble "spaceships"?

    12. Why were remains and images of giant people found? And why do different ancient scriptures from various cultures, including the Bible, talk about giants?

    13. Why are there images of mushrooms in ancient Christian art? And why does the Pope dress up like a giant Amanita muscaria mushroom?

    14. Why do ancient Egyptian artworks show jaws, and is it a coincidence that the pineal gland resembles jaws?

    15. Why are there descriptions of dragons all over the world and in different cultures, thousands of years apart, and also mentioned in the Bible?

    16. Why is there so much blatant satanic symbolism in the music and entertainment industry?

    17. Why do most video games revolve around killing?

    18. How is it possible that movies and cartoons like The Simpsons can predict certain cultural events so accurately?

    19. How do forest fires melt cars but leave trees intact?

    20. What is the national debt? If there is a borrower, there must also be a lender: who is it?

    21. How is it that the so-called "national debt" has increased despite tax increases? Where does the taxpayer's money go?

    22. Why is alcohol and tobacco poisoning considered "normal" and referred to simply as "drinking" and "smoking"?

    23. Why are alcohol
    and tobacco shown in almost all shows and movies?

    24. How do news presenters around the world and on various channels say and repeat the same script word for word?

    25. If we are more progressive and informed than ever before, why do we have the highest rates of obesity, cancer, and heart disease, not to mention depression?

    Feel free to contribute any additional questions you may have.”

    https://x.com/vegastarr/status/1863623245771235822?s=46

    How about, "why are conspiracy theorists nearly always nutjobs with poor levels of understanding and general education?"
    Leon's list of questions are really stupid. I mean, really, really stupid. You would have to be a really low-IQ individual to even propagate that list of shite.

    To take an example: number 5, which is an old favourite of the Moon landing hoaxers. The camera that caught him descending the ladder was in an instrument module called MESA, which was attached to the lander.

    "Positioning the camera in the MESA made it possible to telecast the astronauts' first steps as they climbed down the LM's ladder at the start of a mission's first moonwalk/EVA. Afterwards, the camera would be detached from its mount in the MESA, mounted on a tripod and carried away from the LM to show the EVA's progress... "

    More interesting: how come there are only one or two still photos of Armstrong on the lunar surface? eh? eh? ;) (The answer is simple; he was the one holding the camera most of the time.)

    And for number 3: because there are not that many useful routes over Antarctica (unlike the Arctic...), and emergency diversions are somewhat more difficult. And AIUI, any commercial planes that do fly relatively near the south pole require special survival equipment on board. Because of the ack of diversion airfields. Oh, and the Illuminati monsters that live there.

    You can really do better than the steaming pile of shite you listed...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,694
    HYUFD said:

    Are our Planning Laws to immersed in the fundamental "English man's Home is his Castle" culture that sees bricks and mortar as a possession and an asset. An asset that makes people in parts of the UK unfairy richer than others.

    Contrast to the more Scandinavian model of a property being build to live in, a far more volumous rental model and a culture of bricks and mortar or wood and more wood, being a basic necessity and less of a belonging or asset.

    The give away of our Council Housing stock to buy votes and not to rebuild them with the paltry proceeds endemic of that culture and the root cause of the social housing shortage we now face.

    Median wealth UK $107,739, median wealth Sweden $77,515 and the latter has a lower home ownership rate than the UK.


    Norway by contrast has a higher home ownership rate than the UK and median wealth of $143,887

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

    Even if I agree more council home sale proceeds could be used to build more social housing
    'Should have been" used to build more social housing. Right from the start.

    And isn't the 'wealth' of Norwegians down to sensible distribution of the country's share of North Sea oil?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    Pro_Rata said:

    Italy: Grillo admits defeats in his battle to retain his job as 'guarantor' of M5S by conducting interviews from a hearse he was driving to symbolise the death of the movement's founding principles.

    Completes his epic falling out with Conte who has won member votes to sideline Grillo, define M5S as being on the left and removing 2 term limits for all M5S politicians.

    With the centre looking weak (the centre is where Italian political egos go to die, perhaps Grillo too?) this may open up the long hoped big tent left at all electoral levels: PD have eaten M5S votes during the feud and the left-greens have gained ground too.

    They haven't eaten into the right bloc vote
    much yet, but a more united left that can manage its various crazies will be far more competitive.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/01/the-guardian-view-on-italys-divided-opposition-a-five-star-revolution-can-help-unite-the-left

    Latest Italian polls give Meloni's rightwing coalition 47% combined, 13% more than the PD and M5S on 34% combined
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Italian_general_election#Graphical_summary
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Can we revive Boris Roundabout?

    "Boris Johnson ‘wants to build roundabout under the Isle of Man’

    Prime minister Boris Johnson wants to build a giant roundabout under the Isle of Man, connecting England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, according to The Sunday Times"

    https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-wants-to-build-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    Andy_JS said:

    Can we revive Boris Roundabout?

    "Boris Johnson ‘wants to build roundabout under the Isle of Man’

    Prime minister Boris Johnson wants to build a giant roundabout under the Isle of Man, connecting England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, according to The Sunday Times"

    https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/boris-johnson-wants-to-build-roundabout-under-the-isle-of-man

    I say we give him a hard hat, high-vis vest and a pickaxe and let him crack on :smile:
This discussion has been closed.