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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Shapps Tweet ad could be as damaging as Liam Byrne’s “t

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  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Rod Crosby,

    Your epitaph does put the younger generation's moans in perspective. A hundred years ago, young people died from a variety of infective diseases. Consumption, the white plague, TB (whatever you call it) was a major killer.

    Now with mobile phones, central heating, instant communication and enough to eat, they have time to worry about other more serious things like twitter, fashion and unemployment.

    My generation was lucky in some ways. We avoided wars and childhood mortality, and we gained inside toilets and foreign holidays. I'm aware of our luck but people enjoy moaning and will always do so. There's always someone better off to compare with. That's the real problem.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,959
    Indeed, Mr. Sulphate.

    It's staggering, given the rather significant change to pensions, that the media are wibbling about the Twitter picture.

    Incidentally, there does seem to be an increasing tendency by the media to just report Things From The Internet. There was a story in the Mail last week about a Mumsnet (or Netmums, I always get the PFJ and JPF mixed up) thread on the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge going on holiday without George.
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    The sequence of events after the budget:

    1) Lefties desperately look for something to get irate about
    2) Find the poster, realise it isn't much, but it will have to do
    3) Start massively tedious Twitter campaign
    4) Suddenly realise their life is almost entirely without purpose and throw themselves off the nearest bridge
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    Meanwhile, let us remind ourselves about what millions of ordinary people have seen about the budget:

    http://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/front-pages.cfm

    The best reaction to any budget of this parliament, and for once nobody seems to have found any real gotchas.

    Meanwhile Labour are up in arms about the use of the word they, rather than we.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    I think Grant Shapps must now have just a small inkling what single mothers/immigrants/muslims/benefit claimants/unemployed/state workers get most weeks.....The Express readers outrage.

    Since Labour party members and activists are clearly writing those comments, why would they be outraged with single mothers/immigrants/muslims/benefit claimants/unemployed/state workers?

  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100012871/did-you-spot-this-budget-gives-hmrc-power-to-raid-your-bank-account-like-wonga/

    The liquidate-the-pensioners budget seems to have been disguising a hidden argentinabudget underneath.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Great stuff Josias!

    If only we could all be as deep as you xx

  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    I think Grant Shapps must now have just a small inkling what single mothers/immigrants/muslims/benefit claimants/unemployed/state workers get most weeks.....The Express readers outrage.

    Since Labour party members and activists are clearly writing those comments, why would they be outraged with single mothers/immigrants/muslims/benefit claimants/unemployed/state workers?

    Oh I do enjoy a good PB Hodge flounce, now the Labour party is infiltrating The Express comments section. Don't forget The Telegraph and The Mail.

    #LetThemEatBingo.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    I note that the PBDariens have been very quiet about Osborne's comments on North Sea oil revenues yesterday.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    SeanT said:

    The next polls will be fascinating.

    If Mike Smithson and the lefties are right, #Torybingo has been a disaster equivalent to seeing Labour admit, in a letter, that they bankrupted the nation. If Mike Smithson and the more partisan Tories are right (and I don't necessarily mean pb Tories), the Budget was a triumph and we will now see a big boost for Cameron.

    Either way, Mike Smithson is right, so he'll be happy, in the Schizophrenia Unit.

    .
    You could say OGH is green on the next set of opinion polls ;-)
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    I think Grant Shapps must now have just a small inkling what single mothers/immigrants/muslims/benefit claimants/unemployed/state workers get most weeks.....The Express readers outrage.

    Since Labour party members and activists are clearly writing those comments, why would they be outraged with single mothers/immigrants/muslims/benefit claimants/unemployed/state workers?

    Oh I do enjoy a good PB Hodge flounce, now the Labour party is infiltrating The Express comments section. Don't forget The Telegraph and The Mail.

    #LetThemEatBingo.
    Is there a publication for Squirrel Lovers?

  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    J3ffT0dd said:

    I see more self-appointed martyrs ready to take offence on some-one else's behalf.
    It shows the dearth of talent/gumption/brains in the media and, more worryingly, our political class that this is what now counts as sharp analysis of a budget.

    Which is a good point, the media is barely more representative of the public than our politicians. It always bugs me that the media assume that people care greatly about the tax on tobacco and alcohol, that is in itself a bit patronising, as I'm 99% sure most people are more concerned to know about income tax, NI and the like which have a larger effect on our incomes.

    So really what do people want to know about the budget? How much it will cost them? Or what somebody said on Twitter?

    Any newsroom spending more than 5 minutes on this story has lost its purpose.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    SeanT said:

    The next polls will be fascinating.

    If Mike Smithson and the lefties are right, #Torybingo has been a disaster equivalent to seeing Labour admit, in a letter, that they bankrupted the nation. If Mike Smithson and the more partisan Tories are right (and I don't necessarily mean pb Tories), the Budget was a triumph and we will now see a big boost for Cameron.

    Either way, Mike Smithson is right, so he'll be happy, in the Schizophrenia Unit.

    If the Tories do not get a decent poll boost form this budget then they have problems. As I said last weekend, I would not be surprised to see cross-over in one or two opinion polls this week. Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views. Given that the Tories need Labour to drop below 35% to have a chance of winning next year, it was probably not a great move. As you say, you enter Twitter at your peril.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Is that 4 newly minted posters who have appeared just to say how disastrous this poster was? I am losing count

    Nothing like spontaneous public reaction...
  • CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    Actually this sums up what the Labour Party is about these days. Throwing a tantram over something as tenuous as this whilst completely ignoring the bigger picture.

    If you ever sit wondering what Labour stands for these days then this is it. False outrage and smug superiority.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    glw said:

    J3ffT0dd said:

    I see more self-appointed martyrs ready to take offence on some-one else's behalf.
    It shows the dearth of talent/gumption/brains in the media and, more worryingly, our political class that this is what now counts as sharp analysis of a budget.

    Any newsroom spending more than 5 minutes on this story has lost its purpose.
    That'll be the BBC.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,468

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Great stuff Josias!

    If only we could all be as deep as you xx

    Oh Lordy. You nearly admitted it when McBride's book came out and, ISTR, you said you could never vote for Labour with the two Ed's in charge. Do you still hold that view?

    It must hurt someone as intelligent as yourself to know that the party of the left has descended to such depths. Just listen to Miliband's budget reply yesterday openly and honestly.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    There will be a yougov tonight surely ?

  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @murali_s

    'The Tories have a habbit of letting the loons out when least required - '

    Still can't compete with Ed's appointment of Phil 'make the white folk angry' Woolas as Shadow Immigration spokesman.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Grant Shapps is still a tool and someone who does more harm than good in my eyes.

    I know Tories roll their eyes at the posh-boy-Eton-toffs schtick but a certain charm is lacking when it comes to engaging the working classes. Us folk from poorer areas are far more sophisticated than politicians (on the whole) seem to realise and we have a much smarter sense of humour than them. When C*ulson was running the PR show things were far more slick and engaging: he had the enviable tabloid touch.

    If the Tories had someone like him now they'd be winning not just the economic argument but the propoganda war too.

    Labour are absolutely there for the taking if they get the PR right..
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Watched some leftie female professor being interviewed on SKY earlier about the Grant Shapps tweet. She accused the Tories of being aloof from the working class and then in the most patronising, condescending tones emphasised her point by confirming that for her book on "the working class" she had interviewed hundreds of working class people. She spoke in sneering tones as though the "working class" consisted of a class of zoo exhibit she had studied as part of some sort of scientific test.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I still think Ed may sneak in as PM in 2015, but he'll be forced to do almost the same as Dave would do. Old gits like us will be looked after or the electoral vengeance will make Len Mc and Bob Crow look like a pussy cats.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Great stuff Josias!

    If only we could all be as deep as you xx

    Oh Lordy. You nearly admitted it when McBride's book came out and, ISTR, you said you could never vote for Labour with the two Ed's in charge. Do you still hold that view?

    It must hurt someone as intelligent as yourself to know that the party of the left has descended to such depths. Just listen to Miliband's budget reply yesterday openly and honestly.

    I said I would not vote Labour while Balls was in the shadow cabinet. I am pretty firm on that still. I would like to support Labour, but I don't feel I can for a number of reasons right now. What I do not have, though, is your venal hatred for it. But I guess that's because I am pretty shallow.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    RodCrosby said:

    FPT

    "Abney Park Cemetery in the mist..."

    On a dark and blustery day one January I visited Abney Park Cemetery in search of my great-great-great grandfather's grave, one Isaac Rockingham.

    I vaguely knew that most of his nine children had predeceased him in their teens, twenties or early thirties. His daughter, my gg-grandmother had died in 1877 aged 29 of Diabetes.

    Armed with a map of the cemetery, I went in search of the grave. Unsuccessfully to begin with.... An hour or so later I realised that the stone must be there somewhere but was surrounded by trees and decades of undergrowth.

    Returning with a pair of garden-shears, I hacked away for 10 minutes until I hit something solid. Scraping away masses of vine-like material hanging from a nearby tree and stuck to the stone, the monument gradually began to reveal itself.

    It was getting dark now, starting to rain and I was worried that I was about to be locked in the cemetery for the night! I was certain I was the only living person left in the place. A whistle blew. Busily I struggled to complete my task.

    The names started to become legible. All the children were in the grave with the parents. Moving downwards towards the sodden earth, there was another inscription which I could not make out. The stone had sunk somewhat into the ground over the 130 odd years... Using the shears I dug a small channel into the earth to get to the submerged words.

    Slowly, letter by letter, I deciphered a piece of mid-Victorian poetry.

    "We knew not 'twas consumption, so gently did it steal.
    'Till suddenly the crimson tide our darling's doom revealed...."


    Needless to say I did not dawdle while heading for the gate.

    A wonderful post Rod.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016

    The sequence of events after the budget:

    1) Lefties desperately look for something to get irate about
    2) Find the poster, realise it isn't much, but it will have to do
    3) Start massively tedious Twitter campaign
    4) Suddenly realise their life is almost entirely without purpose and throw themselves off the nearest bridge

    Is 4) likely to affect the polling (other than Yougov obviously)?

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Fenster

    Excellent post - agree with every word.....
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited March 2014
    john_zims said:

    @murali_s

    'The Tories have a habbit of letting the loons out when least required - '

    Still can't compete with Ed's appointment of Phil 'make the white folk angry' Woolas as Shadow Immigration spokesman.

    Hmmm, which party do ethnic minorities vote for again?
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    glw said:

    J3ffT0dd said:

    I see more self-appointed martyrs ready to take offence on some-one else's behalf.
    It shows the dearth of talent/gumption/brains in the media and, more worryingly, our political class that this is what now counts as sharp analysis of a budget.

    Which is a good point, the media is barely more representative of the public than our politicians. It always bugs me that the media assume that people care greatly about the tax on tobacco and alcohol, that is in itself a bit patronising, as I'm 99% sure most people are more concerned to know about income tax, NI and the like which have a larger effect on our incomes.

    So really what do people want to know about the budget? How much it will cost them? Or what somebody said on Twitter?

    Any newsroom spending more than 5 minutes on this story has lost its purpose.
    That basically sums up the Con problem - not understanding that TV airtime is what decides what's politically important and what isn't.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Perhaps we will get a Daily Express "Labour is the party of shirkers and scroungers" headline and a picture of Ed trying to pretend he understands the rules of bingo while spontaneously visiting some Labour club "up north".
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    murali_s said:


    Hmmm, which party do ethnic minorities vote for again?

    You wouldn't patronise ethnic minorities by asserting they all vote the same way, would you?

    Oh, wait...
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    antifrank said:

    The Tories need the Labour vote to drop below 35%. They are not going to achieve that by reinforcing views that the Labour-inclined have of them.

    I understand from my wife that it's caused much upset on Mumsnet - don't laugh, they're a militant bunch of rather middle class people, exactly who the Tories need to vote for them.

    This story is patronising well off people can't understand why the patronised take offence at being patronised. As we raised repeatedly yesterday the budget does literally nothing for the ppeople who can't save where the day to day budget is their concern not retirement. It's a far bigger pool of people than PB Tories with their heads stuck into the paper economy with its paper recovery want to recognise. What the budget did for them was give cash that would make a massive difference to them now to people who aren't struggling to make a difference in the future. Then the poster says cheer up here's a penny off your pint.

    Someone patronisingly said "few people will have seen this" - it's a damn sight more than saw the Byrne letter - it's the media commentators and politicians who made it bigger. This poster has the same commentators talking and went viral.

    It's case of two sets of world views not having any idea of how the other side sees things. If the Tories want the Labour-inclined to take another look at them, they really should avoid reinforcing preconceptions that the Labour-inclined have about Tories. It's not brain surgery, it's politics 101 I'd have thought - especially when there was so much other stuff that Shapps could have highlighted.
    Conversely, I don't think the Labour hard core on here have the least idea of how trivial focusing on this makes them look in the eyes of others.
    Ditch the self-important pomposity for just one afternoon. In fact, why not make Thursday "I'm going on a self-importance and pomposity" fast day?

    I have said, a number of times, on this forum, that the story is trivial. I have also said that Ozzy's budget was solid and that his pensions stuff was wise and clever.

    But the Torybingo stuff works because it reinforces perceptions and because it is funny. So be it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2014

    Perhaps we will get a Daily Express "Labour is the party of shirkers and scroungers" headline and a picture of Ed trying to pretend he understands the rules of bingo while spontaneously visiting some Labour club "up north".

    You want a picture of Ed in a club? Your wish...

    Twitter.com/toadmeister/status/446598924384485376/photo/1
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Watched some leftie female professor being interviewed on SKY earlier about the Grant Shapps tweet. She accused the Tories of being aloof from the working class and then in the most patronising, condescending tones emphasised her point by confirming that for her book on "the working class" she had interviewed hundreds of working class people. She spoke in sneering tones as though the "working class" consisted of a class of zoo exhibit she had studied as part of some sort of scientific test.

    I think I saw the same interview. Remarkably I didn't have anywhere near as colourful and extreme view of her!
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    Despite the ridiculous header to this thread Mike is obviously an astute and intelligent man, he cannot for one minute believe the preposterous rubbish he has written.

    My guess is he knows the Budget is a game changer and the Tories he hates so much are right back in the picture, so he has sacrificed his own integrity to get a negative headline in the public domain.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    MrJones said:

    glw said:

    J3ffT0dd said:

    I see more self-appointed martyrs ready to take offence on some-one else's behalf.
    It shows the dearth of talent/gumption/brains in the media and, more worryingly, our political class that this is what now counts as sharp analysis of a budget.

    Which is a good point, the media is barely more representative of the public than our politicians. It always bugs me that the media assume that people care greatly about the tax on tobacco and alcohol, that is in itself a bit patronising, as I'm 99% sure most people are more concerned to know about income tax, NI and the like which have a larger effect on our incomes.

    So really what do people want to know about the budget? How much it will cost them? Or what somebody said on Twitter?

    Any newsroom spending more than 5 minutes on this story has lost its purpose.
    That basically sums up the Con problem - not understanding that TV airtime is what decides what's politically important and what isn't.

    You'd have thought with Dave's current head of communications being the former chief editor of both the 6 o'clock and 10 o'clock BBC news they might have more of a clue.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    Been working this afternoon while watching Verdi's Macbeth on SKY Arts 2 starring Simon Keenlyside. Excellent production and great way of dulling the senses to some of the stuff I've had to deal with.

    Incidentally has James Cordon lost about 3 stones in weight judging by the picture of him and Dave for Sport Relief?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    SeanT said:

    I note that the PBDariens have been very quiet about Osborne's comments on North Sea oil revenues yesterday.

    I'm amazed they're not more excited by the Panelbase poll. But 53-47 Yes/No is horribly close, and v encouraging for them (and worrying for unionists and Labour).

    Usually they Nats would be on here in droves, shouting their war-cries, lifting their kilts, and exposing their hairy tatties in triumph.

    They've gone down the bingo.

  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    Is that 4 newly minted posters who have appeared just to say how disastrous this poster was? I am losing count

    Nothing like spontaneous public reaction...

    It's ridiculous, yet you have to step back and admire the organisation. The Left is good at Social Media Warfare and Advanced Cyber-conflict - much better than the Right. Uncomfortable but true.
    nonsense: 2 words "owen jones"
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    edited March 2014
    CD13 said:

    Rod Crosby,

    Your epitaph does put the younger generation's moans in perspective. A hundred years ago, young people died from a variety of infective diseases. Consumption, the white plague, TB (whatever you call it) was a major killer.

    True. One of the things I liked about The Grand Budapest Hotel was the way people were announced dying of (made-up) diseases that people no longer die of.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    SeanT said:

    I note that the PBDariens have been very quiet about Osborne's comments on North Sea oil revenues yesterday.

    I'm amazed they're not more excited by the Panelbase poll. But 53-47 Yes/No is horribly close, and v encouraging for them (and worrying for unionists and Labour).

    Usually they Nats would be on here in droves, shouting their war-cries, lifting their kilts, and exposing their hairy tatties in triumph.
    TBF that's with the DKs taken out (about 15 percentage points IIRC). But I at least thought you would like a change from the Indy referendum ...

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Just a teensy weensy bit of a overly serious over-reaction to what is really quite a funny Twitterstorm.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    murali_s said:

    john_zims said:

    @murali_s

    'The Tories have a habbit of letting the loons out when least required - '

    Still can't compete with Ed's appointment of Phil 'make the white folk angry' Woolas as Shadow Immigration spokesman.

    Hmmm, which party do ethnic minorties vote for again?
    Every political party last time I looked. It's only labour which think they own 'dem ethnic's'...
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    taffys said:

    Fenster

    Excellent post - agree with every word.....

    Thank you. Very kind.

    I worked in a bingo hall as a schoolkid too. One of those old converted-cinema buildings with nicotine-stained walls and old women with thousand-yard stares. I even graduated to caller for the 'Party Bingo', the one with the coloured number flip boards. If I missed a call of "house" I'd be lynched. £7.50 a night for four hours work. A great laugh.

    We were fascinated that the old women could mark off a full set of six cards (all 90 numbers) at the same time as smoking a whole cigarette without removing it from their mouths.

    Don't mess with bingo customers, they are hardcore.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Fwiw, I think it is all froth. The clever (if not new) part might actually be the building projects.

    And if we are trading stereotypes, bingo is for women rather than the whole working class.

    A 200 per cent tax on tweets might help both parties.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,959
    F1: no real surprise, but Red Bull have confirmed they're appealing against Ricciardo's disqualification:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26664721

    I doubt they'll win, given they were (apparently) told during the race that if they cut it out they'd not suffer any penalty and the team decided to ignore the instruction. It's their own damned fault and a great shame for Ricciardo, who drove a good race.

    Of course, if you want to read more about the race and its implications for the season, why not tuck into some tasty enormo-haddock?:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/australia-post-race-analysis.html
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Some cheering news from the other side of the Atlantic. Fred Phelps dead. And yes, hand-wringers, I am indeed happy that he's shuffled off the mortal coil. The man was hatred personified, and he corrupted most of his family with his views.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26669967
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,959
    Mr. Anorak, the Westboro Baptist chap? A rather horrendous group.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    murali_s said:

    john_zims said:

    @murali_s

    'The Tories have a habbit of letting the loons out when least required - '

    Still can't compete with Ed's appointment of Phil 'make the white folk angry' Woolas as Shadow Immigration spokesman.

    Hmmm, which party do ethnic minorties vote for again?
    Every political party last time I looked. It's only labour which think they own 'dem ethnic's'...
    OK - my bad - missed a key word "mostly".

    Which party do ethnic minorities "mostly" vote for?

    Happy now?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    SeanT said:

    The next polls will be fascinating.

    If Mike Smithson and the lefties are right, #Torybingo has been a disaster equivalent to seeing Labour admit, in a letter, that they bankrupted the nation. If Mike Smithson and the more partisan Tories are right (and I don't necessarily mean pb Tories), the Budget was a triumph and we will now see a big boost for Cameron.

    Either way, Mike Smithson is right, so he'll be happy, in the Schizophrenia Unit.

    Mike will of course be able to claim he was right both ways if both "game-changers" "cancel each out" and we get a YouGov tonight in MOE from the last one.

    Smithson on trial – will he be right, will he be right, or will he actually be proved right?

    Film at eleven.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,468

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Great stuff Josias!

    If only we could all be as deep as you xx

    Oh Lordy. You nearly admitted it when McBride's book came out and, ISTR, you said you could never vote for Labour with the two Ed's in charge. Do you still hold that view?

    It must hurt someone as intelligent as yourself to know that the party of the left has descended to such depths. Just listen to Miliband's budget reply yesterday openly and honestly.

    I said I would not vote Labour while Balls was in the shadow cabinet. I am pretty firm on that still. I would like to support Labour, but I don't feel I can for a number of reasons right now. What I do not have, though, is your venal hatred for it. But I guess that's because I am pretty shallow.
    "What I do not have, though, is your venal hatred for it."

    A bit of projection there, methinks.

    I don't hate Labour, venally or otherwise. I do intensely dislike the current Labour operation, which is one where any depth will be plumbed for power. Miliband and Balls are both symptoms of this; they gained prominence through those years, and know well how to operate in that manner.

    Hence Miliband's inability to apologise to Mitchell, amongst other things.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Just a teensy weensy bit of a overly serious over-reaction to what is really quite a funny Twitterstorm.
    The over reaction is entirely yours.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523


    You'd have thought with Dave's current head of communications being the former chief editor of both the 6 o'clock and 10 o'clock BBC news they might have more of a clue.

    Why would one guy change a general problem of Con supporters not getting it?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Can we have four threads on this please?

    @BBCNormanS: No 10 say not up to Govt to tell people how to manage their savings after Pensions Minister says ok to use pension pot to buy a Lamborghini
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    Mr. Anorak, the Westboro Baptist chap? A rather horrendous group.

    I read somewhere that they were asking people respect his funeral and not picket it. LOL.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited March 2014
    Carrie Symonds ‏@carrieapples 14m

    Labour MP on Mili's Budget response:"The best you can say is that it was better than Ed Balls' awful speech after the last Autumn Statement"

    Damning with faint praise indeed - I'd almost forgotten Ed's 'omnishamBalls' last year.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,959
    Mr. D, one suspects that request will not be granted.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    So people really think publicising a popular tax cut is bad for the Tories?

    Okaaaaay......
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    I played bingo once. It was by far the shittest game I have ever played, not least because I was rubbish at it and mistakenly declared house when in fact I didn't have anything. The punishment for such a transgression is cruel and unusual and not appropriate for a family forum.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
    I appreciate that is your view of Osbourne's policy mad I agree with you. However the question I asked was for your opinion on Labour saying we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly, not your view on the policy.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.

    Is he opposing it? Very foolish if he is.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Just a teensy weensy bit of a overly serious over-reaction to what is really quite a funny Twitterstorm.
    The over reaction is entirely yours.

    So people really think publicising a popular tax cut is bad for the Tories?

    Okaaaaay......

    So I'll ask you what I asked ScottP. Do you think it is a good move, this tweet? What's your view of it?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    SeanT said:

    Anorak said:

    Some cheering news from the other side of the Atlantic. Fred Phelps dead. And yes, hand-wringers, I am indeed happy that he's shuffled off the mortal coil. The man was hatred personified, and he corrupted most of his family with his views.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-26669967

    Nah. Never Cheer Death.

    Bad form.

    Any man's death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.
    In this case death (or Death, if you're talking about the skinny chap with the scythe) has performed a just act. Justice should always be cheered.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    I played bingo once. It was by far the shittest game I have ever played, not least because I was rubbish at it and mistakenly declared house when in fact I didn't have anything. The punishment for such a transgression is cruel and unusual and not appropriate for a family forum.

    The Proper English name for Bingo - an American import - is Housey-Housey.
    It has been played all over the English speaking world for well over century. You obviously played a bowdlerised version of the game. Eyes down!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Funny how the right wing medias super praising of Osborne and his budget has been drowned out by the "public response to #ToryBingo #LetThemEatBingo" and even the right wing press are on board and attacking it.....wonder how that happened ;-)
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:

    Old Etonian hires foreign nanny. When will these scandals stop?

    @SkyNewsRoyal: #royal #breaking Kensington Palace confirms Prince George's new nanny is Maria Teresa Turrion Borrallo #royaltour

    Value for money ?
  • WelshBertieWelshBertie Posts: 124

    The Tories need the Labour vote to drop below 35%. They are not going to achieve that by reinforcing views that the Labour-inclined have of them.

    I understand from my wife that it's caused much upset on Mumsnet - don't laugh, they're a militant bunch of rather middle class people, exactly who the Tories need to vote for them.

    This story is patronising well off people can't understand why the patronised take offence at being patronised. As we raised repeatedly yesterday the budget does literally nothing for the ppeople who can't save where the day to day budget is their concern not retirement. It's a far bigger pool of people than PB Tories with their heads stuck into the paper economy with its paper recovery want to recognise. What the budget did for them was give cash that would make a massive difference to them now to people who aren't struggling to make a difference in the future. Then the poster says cheer up here's a penny off your pint.

    Someone patronisingly said "few people will have seen this" - it's a damn sight more than saw the Byrne letter - it's the media commentators and politicians who made it bigger. This poster has the same commentators talking and went viral.

    Mumsnet. Truly the voice of proletarian Britain. Meanwhile back in the real world it'll probably be seen as a good thing in the eyes of ordinary people like my grandparents who go to bingo every week without fail (not that my grandparents are ever likely to vote Conservative). The main tory concern was getting good reports in the press and other than the Mirror, the Guardian and the Morning Star they have. And the more leftwingers try to go on about this the more ridicule they'll be storing up for themselves.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Just a teensy weensy bit of a overly serious over-reaction to what is really quite a funny Twitterstorm.
    The over reaction is entirely yours.

    So people really think publicising a popular tax cut is bad for the Tories?

    Okaaaaay......

    So I'll ask you what I asked ScottP. Do you think it is a good move, this tweet? What's your view of it?
    I think its harmless and there is a lot of panicky projection on it from some of our friends on the left. If they really want to keep banging on about the Tories being the party of tax cuts on booze and bingo - go right ahead. It rather illustrates the desperate intellectual poverty of their position - they have run out of arguments and are left feebly clutching at transient straws - this is no "Pastie-gate"......so come the election, the Tories will be able to say "Yes, we cut taxes on booze and bingo". I doubt Labour will be featuring Byrne's note (though I suspect the Tories might!)
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    It's an utterly ridiculous reaction that shows how content- and policy-free Labour really are.

    Ed Miliband's speech yesterday was not a reply to the budget - I'm not sure a single announcement was reacted to. It was a simple and dreary meme: "The Tories are horrible and nasty." This 'reaction' is just an extension of that.

    And sadly, so many people on here fall for it. It says nothing about the Tories, but a lot about the shallowness of the people who buy into it.

    It's doubly laughable because, as shown on here passim, Labour is the real nasty party. From McBride to McAlpine through Mitchell.

    Labour are nasty at their core. If the rest of the apple is rotten, it's because of that core.

    Just a teensy weensy bit of a overly serious over-reaction to what is really quite a funny Twitterstorm.
    The over reaction is entirely yours.

    So people really think publicising a popular tax cut is bad for the Tories?

    Okaaaaay......

    So I'll ask you what I asked ScottP. Do you think it is a good move, this tweet? What's your view of it?
    No of course it isn't, but it's given you patronising lefties a bit of fun after being completely outflanked by Osborne.

    Now have the courtesy of answering my question properly please.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.

    Is he opposing it? Very foolish if he is.

    I don't think he was really, he was just pointing out some possible loopholes.
    To be honest this bingo stuff has become the story so it might take a few days before we get any serious analysis of the pensions stuff.
    House!
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    ULTIMATE BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    Twitter.com/Sun_Politics/statuses/446684228378689536

    Tebbit says Tory Party should get rid of Cameron before the election.


    And so the fun begins again!
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
    I appreciate that is your view of Osbourne's policy mad I agree with you. However the question I asked was for your opinion on Labour saying we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly, not your view on the policy.
    That's what I am saying - I do think we should trust people. Who has said we can't trust people? I'm not aware of the story - I'm not saying it doesn't exist merely that I haven't heard it.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550
    All publicity is good publicity.

    This will be a good test of that saying.

    But what other message today is it obscuring?

    The fact that Labour has not had anything sensible to say about the budget?

    There are questions around the budget approach - see the IFS website and the slides of their presentations earlier today.

    In particular, permanent tax cuts have been funded by cashflow changes - bringing forward tax receipts from the future and reducing costs now for future liabilities. Some of these cashflow measures are long term, eg the pension changes only reverse the cashflow in 2030, but others are short - eg earlier tax payments on certain tax schemes.

    But are Labour interested in asking these sort of questions about the fundamental impacts of the budget?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.

    Is he opposing it? Very foolish if he is.

    I don't think he was really, he was just pointing out some possible loopholes.
    To be honest this bingo stuff has become the story so it might take a few days before we get any serious analysis of the pensions stuff.
    House!
    That's all it is, a story. The pension changes will give people a better deal for years to come

    Out of interest has anyone actually asked any bingo players what they think of the Tory tax cut?

    And are you going to answer. My question properly?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    BLUE ON BLUE INCOMING:

    "David Cameron should be axed before the next general election to give the Tories a chance of winning a majority, according to a party grandee. Lord Tebbit said the next Conservative supremo should be "a son of Thatcher not a son of Tony Blair".

    LOL!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
    I appreciate that is your view of Osbourne's policy mad I agree with you. However the question I asked was for your opinion on Labour saying we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly, not your view on the policy.
    That's what I am saying - I do think we should trust people. Who has said we can't trust people? I'm not aware of the story - I'm not saying it doesn't exist merely that I haven't heard it.
    'You cannot trust people to spend their own money sensibly': Anger at ex-Blair aide's attack on earlier pensions payouts

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2585133/You-trust-people-spend-money-sensibly-Anger-ex-Blair-aides-attack-earlier-pensions-payouts.html#ixzz2wWWl2Qxu
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    BobaFett said:

    SeanT said:

    The next polls will be fascinating.

    If Mike Smithson and the lefties are right, #Torybingo has been a disaster equivalent to seeing Labour admit, in a letter, that they bankrupted the nation. If Mike Smithson and the more partisan Tories are right (and I don't necessarily mean pb Tories), the Budget was a triumph and we will now see a big boost for Cameron.

    Either way, Mike Smithson is right, so he'll be happy, in the Schizophrenia Unit.

    Mike will of course be able to claim he was right both ways if both "game-changers" "cancel each out" and we get a YouGov tonight in MOE from the last one.

    Smithson on trial – will he be right, will he be right, or will he actually be proved right?

    Film at eleven.
    Mike Smithson's morning euphoria has quickly dissipated as he realises that this budget will not make an iota of difference, as UKIP's upwards march continues unabated.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited March 2014
    The budget was so fantastically brilliant, there are now pictures doing the rounds of Jeremy Hunt falling asleep during it........I love a bit of good PR.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited March 2014
    With Labour having campaigned vigorously for reform to the pensions and savings industry - was HM Opposition caught off guard by the Budget?

    Too right. Everyone was. The Budget box - which has been so leaky in recent times – remained tightly shut until the Chancellor spoke.......

    However, it hasn’t taken long for other Labour voices to emerge. Former political adviser to Tony Blair, John McTernan, told BBC Newsnight that “you can’t trust people to spend their money sensibly”.


    http://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/news-and-analysis/politics/iain-anderson-the-budget-that-caught-everyone-off-guard/2008215.article

    Chancellor George Osborne has dismissed fears newly retired people could "blow" their pension pot under reforms introduced in Wednesday's Budget.

    Mr Osborne said pensioners were "responsible people who are capable of making decisions about their future".


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26649162

    Who is condescending?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
    I appreciate that is your view of Osbourne's policy mad I agree with you. However the question I asked was for your opinion on Labour saying we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly, not your view on the policy.
    That's what I am saying - I do think we should trust people. Who has said we can't trust people? I'm not aware of the story - I'm not saying it doesn't exist merely that I haven't heard it.
    Oh please, you put yourself up as someone with strong views, have great fun all day at Shapps expense (I don't blame you!) but now proclaim not to have heard or seen anything about this?

    Either you are telling porkies or you are so blinkered with Lefty idealism you can or will not see the bigger picture.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
    I appreciate that is your view of Osbourne's policy mad I agree with you. However the question I asked was for your opinion on Labour saying we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly, not your view on the policy.
    That's what I am saying - I do think we should trust people. Who has said we can't trust people? I'm not aware of the story - I'm not saying it doesn't exist merely that I haven't heard it.
    Oh please, you put yourself up as someone with strong views, have great fun all day at Shapps expense (I don't blame you!) but now proclaim not to have heard or seen anything about this?

    Either you are telling porkies or you are so blinkered with Lefty idealism you can or will not see the bigger picture.
    Seriously I haven't seen this story! Happy to read it if you send me the link!!
  • WelshBertieWelshBertie Posts: 124
    ziggy said:

    The problem with the current crop of Tories is that they are unusually ideological.

    When you're highly committed to an individualist ideology it can lead you to believe that the rich and poor deserve their lot. The poor are rightly poor, because of some personal failing. That in turn can lead to condescension, or even genuine distaste for the less well off.

    In the same way that concern for the least well off can lead highly ideological leftwingers to develop a genuine dislike of anyone well off.

    The Tories need to get into opposition and cleanse, purge, renew, modernise, become the party of the ordinary man in the street again.

    You're projecting a bit there.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    ziggy said:

    The problem with the current crop of Tories is that they are unusually ideological.

    When you're highly committed to an individualist ideology it can lead you to believe that the rich and poor deserve their lot. The poor are rightly poor, because of some personal failing. That in turn can lead to condescension, or even genuine distaste for the less well off.

    In the same way that concern for the least well off can lead highly ideological leftwingers to develop a genuine dislike of anyone well off.

    The Tories need to get into opposition and cleanse, purge, renew, modernise, become the party of the ordinary man in the street again.

    The party of the ordinary man in the street is now UKIP, the Tories and Labour have long since lost that position.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.
    I appreciate that is your view of Osbourne's policy mad I agree with you. However the question I asked was for your opinion on Labour saying we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly, not your view on the policy.
    That's what I am saying - I do think we should trust people. Who has said we can't trust people? I'm not aware of the story - I'm not saying it doesn't exist merely that I haven't heard it.
    'You cannot trust people to spend their own money sensibly': Anger at ex-Blair aide's attack on earlier pensions payouts

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2585133/You-trust-people-spend-money-sensibly-Anger-ex-Blair-aides-attack-earlier-pensions-payouts.html#ixzz2wWWl2Qxu
    Thanks. I think it's a silly thing to say. I guess the point he is making is that people aged 65 can't imagine that they will live until 95, but still he has made a hash of presenting that point.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Right - so the Labour opposes the pensions and savings reforms story is based on comments someone with no official position in the Labour party made on Newsnight yesterday. Got it.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2014
    Ninoinoz said:

    CD13 said:

    Rod Crosby,

    Your epitaph does put the younger generation's moans in perspective. A hundred years ago, young people died from a variety of infective diseases. Consumption, the white plague, TB (whatever you call it) was a major killer.

    True. One of the things I liked about The Grand Budapest Hotel was the way people were announced dying of (made-up) diseases that people no longer die of.
    On the other side of the family, my great-grandfather's first marriage ended in unutterable Victorian horror...

    His wife's death certificate (aged 33 in 1886) gives cause of death as "general paralysis of insane." [sic].

    A little research reveals that that was the old name for end-stage tertiary syphilis.

    It seems that he just dumped her in Colney Hatch asylum. Such was the shame of it she is described on the certificate merely as "Wife of ---------".

    He got married again, aged 45 to a girl aged 21, fathered his only child, my grandfather, then dropped dead of "Apoplexy" in Enfield the following year...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Scott_P said:

    Torybingo will not shift votes. What it might do is reinforce views.

    What were the views expressed in the poster that might get reinforced?

    Oh, yes.

    Tories Cut Taxes

    It's a DISASTER!!!!!!!
    So you thought the tweet a good move then? I just want to check because I can't remember you putting an actual opinion on record.
    Talking of opinions, what is your opinion on the fact that Labour politicians think we cannot be trusted to spend our own money sensibly?
    You are probably projecting a bit, but to be fair I have said I back Ozzy's policy. I can't see the point of Balls opposing it, he's wrong to do so.

    Is he opposing it? Very foolish if he is.

    I don't think he was really, he was just pointing out some possible loopholes.
    To be honest this bingo stuff has become the story so it might take a few days before we get any serious analysis of the pensions stuff.
    House!
    That's all it is, a story. The pension changes will give people a better deal for years to come

    Out of interest has anyone actually asked any bingo players what they think of the Tory tax cut?

    And are you going to answer. My question properly?

    How does the tax cut benefit bingo players? Doesn't it benefit bingo hall owners?

  • Faisal Islam has been appointed the new Political Editor of Sky News.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Right - so the Labour opposes the pensions and savings reforms story is based on comments someone with no official position in the Labour party made on Newsnight yesterday. Got it.

    Well, given that the Shadow Chancellor - who does have a rather significant official position in the Labour Party - managed an entire Budget response in the Commons today without saying anything apart from some poor jibes, it is hardly surprising that Labour's position is being filled in by others:

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ed-balls-budget-response-long-jokes-bit-short-analysis-1441144

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    How does the tax cut benefit bingo players? Doesn't it benefit bingo hall owners?

    Assuming the bingo market is competitive, bingo halls will now offer better-value games to the players.

    The incidence of a tax does not necessarily fall upon the person or entity paying it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Right - so the Labour opposes the pensions and savings reforms story is based on comments someone with no official position in the Labour party made on Newsnight yesterday. Got it.

    Is that out of court ? We can have endless discussions here on what Nadine Dorries or Tim Montgomerie say . Sauce for the goose etc.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    The Tories need the Labour vote to drop below 35%. They are not going to achieve that by reinforcing views that the Labour-inclined have of them.

    I understand from my wife that it's caused much upset on Mumsnet - don't laugh, they're a militant bunch of rather middle class people, exactly who the Tories need to vote for them.

    This story is patronising well off people can't understand why the patronised take offence at being patronised. As we raised repeatedly yesterday the budget does literally nothing for the ppeople who can't save where the day to day budget is their concern not retirement. It's a far bigger pool of people than PB Tories with their heads stuck into the paper economy with its paper recovery want to recognise. What the budget did for them was give cash that would make a massive difference to them now to people who aren't struggling to make a difference in the future. Then the poster says cheer up here's a penny off your pint.

    Someone patronisingly said "few people will have seen this" - it's a damn sight more than saw the Byrne letter - it's the media commentators and politicians who made it bigger. This poster has the same commentators talking and went viral.

    It's case of two sets of world views not having any idea of how the other side sees things. If the Tories want the Labour-inclined to take another look at them, they really should avoid reinforcing preconceptions that the Labour-inclined have about Tories. It's not brain surgery, it's politics 101 I'd have thought - especially when there was so much other stuff that Shapps could have highlighted.
    Conversely, I don't think the Labour hard core on here have the least idea of how trivial focusing on this makes them look in the eyes of others.

    I am not sure anyone is focusing on it. It has been commented on. A lot of other stuff seems to have been discussed as well. I spent most of yesterday and a fair bit of today when on here praising Osborne for his savings and pensions reforms, for example.

    Compouter2 and Mick P0rk seem to be borderline obsessive on the subject.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Right - so the Labour opposes the pensions and savings reforms story is based on comments someone with no official position in the Labour party made on Newsnight yesterday. Got it.

    Is that out of court ? We can have endless discussions here on what Nadine Dorries or Tim Montgomerie say . Sauce for the goose etc.

    Indeed we do and I'd be happy to talk about what that bloke said - I disagree with him. What I don't think anyone says is that either Dorries (unlike this bloke an elected MP) or Montgomerie are expressing official Tory policy.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    Right - so the Labour opposes the pensions and savings reforms story is based on comments someone with no official position in the Labour party made on Newsnight yesterday. Got it.

    Well, given that the Shadow Chancellor - who does have a rather significant official position in the Labour Party - managed an entire Budget response in the Commons today without saying anything apart from some poor jibes, it is hardly surprising that Labour's position is being filled in by others:

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/ed-balls-budget-response-long-jokes-bit-short-analysis-1441144

    The left is just a black hole for ideas atm. If the best they can do is carp about a poster they're in the brown stuff. Some of us on the right may disagree with GO but at least we'll give you some alternatives to debate rather than the personality contest that's Ed's Labour.
  • On topic, the 2015 Budget will the launching pad for the General Election campaign.

    If we see a similar response from Labour, the Coalition will be delighted, if the best Labour can critique a budget is to criticise a tweet and whether cabinet ministers fell asleep, then the coalition has comprehensively won the economic argument. It's fire up the Quattro redux.

    That said, the Tories in particular need to be careful about stuff like this.

    Remember these posters and the memes it created.

    http://mydavidcameron.com/
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Wow. This is powerful on the Osborne pension plan.

    http://opinion.publicfinance.co.uk/2014/03/osbornes-pensions-catastrophe/
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    How does the tax cut benefit bingo players? Doesn't it benefit bingo hall owners?

    Assuming the bingo market is competitive, bingo halls will now offer better-value games to the players.

    The incidence of a tax does not necessarily fall upon the person or entity paying it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

    I may be wrong, but I think that has been ruled out by the hall owners.

This discussion has been closed.