So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
I see that Keir Starmer has signed it over 500 times, from a number of different addresses. He clearly has had enough.
So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
There is no chance there will be a GE or even a debate.
This is simply a way for fed up people to give HMG two fingers and embarass Reeves and Starmer.
The 2 million barrier will go today only two petitions are bigger both Brexit relayed the all time record is 6.2 million which was requesting the article 50 legilslaion was scrapped.
On the other hand after 5 months I see little sign that this government will achieve anything major on the economy. Meaningful growth is dead and inflation will be back.
I disagree with your initial paragraphs: anyone signing this petition either cares little for democracy, or has no effing idea how it works. The calls are particularly funny if they come from people who were anti-EU, given a very valid criticism of the EU was the Lisbon Treaty re-vote.
I agree with your last paragraph; I don't think Labour have particularly good economic policies - which is one reason I didn't vote for them. But Labour have won the chance to give their policies a try.
If you run down the list of petitions youll see telling the government of the day to clear off appears several times. The last one was for the previous lot to just go. For obvious reasons these have tended to be lefties saying Tories out. This one is more noticeable as it's a Labour government pissing people off and being criticised.
I find the idea that calling for an election is “undemocratic” somewhat strange.
Sure, the petition is idiotic. But so are our politicians.
It might be considered “anti supremacy of Parliament” - but it would only force* Parliament to discuss something.
*the rule about discussing something petitioned is easily got round, I understand.
So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
There is no chance there will be a GE or even a debate.
This is simply a way for fed up people to give HMG two fingers and embarass Reeves and Starmer.
The 2 million barrier will go today only two petitions are bigger both Brexit relayed the all time record is 6.2 million which was requesting the article 50 legilslaion was scrapped.
On the other hand after 5 months I see little sign that this government will achieve anything major on the economy. Meaningful growth is dead and inflation will be back.
I disagree with your initial paragraphs: anyone signing this petition either cares little for democracy, or has no effing idea how it works. The calls are particularly funny if they come from people who were anti-EU, given a very valid criticism of the EU was the Lisbon Treaty re-vote.
I agree with your last paragraph; I don't think Labour have particularly good economic policies - which is one reason I didn't vote for them. But Labour have won the chance to give their policies a try.
If you run down the list of petitions youll see telling the government of the day to clear off appears several times. The last one was for the previous lot to just go. For obvious reasons these have tended to be lefties saying Tories out. This one is more noticeable as it's a Labour government pissing people off and being criticised.
I find the idea that calling for an election is “undemocratic” somewhat strange.
Sure, the petition is idiotic. But so are our politicians.
It might be considered “anti supremacy of Parliament” - but it would only force* Parliament to discuss something.
*the rule about discussing something petitioned is easily got round, I understand.
I disagree. If never holding a general election is undemocratic (I think we can all agree on that?), then calling for a general election after a few months just because your side lost is also undemocratic.
One pillar of democracy is that we accept the result of a fair vote - and our GE was a fair vote - even if we disagree with it. That's something we generally do quite well in this country.
So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
There is no chance there will be a GE or even a debate.
This is simply a way for fed up people to give HMG two fingers and embarass Reeves and Starmer.
The 2 million barrier will go today only two petitions are bigger both Brexit relayed the all time record is 6.2 million which was requesting the article 50 legilslaion was scrapped.
On the other hand after 5 months I see little sign that this government will achieve anything major on the economy. Meaningful growth is dead and inflation will be back.
I disagree with your initial paragraphs: anyone signing this petition either cares little for democracy, or has no effing idea how it works. The calls are particularly funny if they come from people who were anti-EU, given a very valid criticism of the EU was the Lisbon Treaty re-vote.
I agree with your last paragraph; I don't think Labour have particularly good economic policies - which is one reason I didn't vote for them. But Labour have won the chance to give their policies a try.
If you run down the list of petitions youll see telling the government of the day to clear off appears several times. The last one was for the previous lot to just go. For obvious reasons these have tended to be lefties saying Tories out. This one is more noticeable as it's a Labour government pissing people off and being criticised.
I find the idea that calling for an election is “undemocratic” somewhat strange.
Sure, the petition is idiotic. But so are our politicians.
It might be considered “anti supremacy of Parliament” - but it would only force* Parliament to discuss something.
*the rule about discussing something petitioned is easily got round, I understand.
I disagree. If never holding a general election is undemocratic (I think we can all agree on that?), then calling for a general election after a few months just because your side lost is also undemocratic.
One pillar of democracy is that we accept the result of a fair vote - and our GE was a fair vote - even if we disagree with it. That's something we generally do quite well in this country.
I can recall various times where, inside a year of an election, the Opposition have been calling for another one - usually when the polling suggested the opposition might get in!
I think it goes against the tenor of our *Parliamentary Democracy* - elected oligarchy for a period of up to 5 years - but not democracy itself.
The IFS have already said that given Reeves has boxed herself in with no austerity ever, the sums don't add up still and further tax rises will be required. But again, it doesn't seem like they really had thought it all through, so another round of unpopular decisions in a year or two.
The trouble is, the moment they start thinking it through, they realise that their Party's whole reason for existing - plundering the enterprising and successful to give to the idle and unproductive as I'd call it, or 'wealth redistribution' as they might name it - can't be reconciled with economic reality. There seems to be a limit - different in every country, but in this country apparently about 37-38% of GDP - above which taxes really start affecting economic growth, which in turn reduces tax yields which reduces the cash available for public spending.
And as the last government basically took us up to that level, any further increases in tax and spending will be counter-productive even to the public sector, let alone to the already battered private sector and the country as a whole.
What could really increase the tax take in the medium to long term is radical supply-side reform and deregulation, but that would be extremely painful for many well-organised lobby groups in the short term, and would need politicians of exceptional vision, knowledge and skill to execute. And we've got Keir Starmer, who clearly has no idea about economics, and Rachel Reeves who would be out of her depth in a puddle. So the chances of that happening are about the same as of the Prime Minister turning down a freebie.
So I imagine they'll do what Labour did in the 70s - stumble on, unloved for a few years going from crisis to crisis. And the country will endure at least another four years of slow decline, creeping stagnation and gradually increasing shabbiness and despair.
Even worse, for Starmer and Reeves, is that the new US administration appear to be determined to give supply-side reform and deregulation a good go, pushing against the vested interests and lobbyists to push deregulation and public spending reductions.
If this works, and there are well-argued views on both sides of the discussion, it could turbocharge private-sector growth in that country while simultaneously attracting investment that may have gone to places like the UK.
Tariffs might be a larger problem. If ACME Inc wants to sell into the USA, it needs to build a factory there. Unless there are retaliatory sanctions, there is no reason to keep open their factory here. And even if there are, if ACME can afford only a single factory, the American market is probably larger than ours.
So either we lose because there is a trade war, or we lose because there is not.
The best thing to do, as much as the UK government might not like the idea, is to get as cozy as possible with the new US administration.
Most imports from the UK to the US are services, and the goods that are exported are mostly high-end and rely on British brands (Scotch Whisky, Rolls-Royce cars etc), so it makes little sense for the US to impose tariffs on the UK - as opposed to the EU for example, where there is a much wider range of products traded.
There's an old saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
If the US wants to make a good faith proposal, terrific.
But is there any evidence that us being at the mercy of Trump's whim is going to be good for us? Is it "free trade so long as we keep him happy"?
If so, that sounds like a pretty shitty deal.
Isnt that the one we had with the EU ?
I supported - and still do - support Brexit, but that comment is lazy and absurd.
As lazy as your throwaways on the new US administration?
I very rarely go around slinging insults on PB, and maybe my comment was glib.
But yours wasn't very helpful either. The EU was a rules based organization. Now, I didn't like the rules, but it had them. There were processes, and generally here there were attempts to find consensus along disparate countries with disparate needs.
I don't think there is any evidence that Trump believes in any way in a rules based international order.
We also had a considerable degree of influence on those rules. And considerable autonomy (which we exercised poorly) on how we chose to enforce them.
So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
There is no chance there will be a GE or even a debate.
This is simply a way for fed up people to give HMG two fingers and embarass Reeves and Starmer.
The 2 million barrier will go today only two petitions are bigger both Brexit relayed the all time record is 6.2 million which was requesting the article 50 legilslaion was scrapped.
On the other hand after 5 months I see little sign that this government will achieve anything major on the economy. Meaningful growth is dead and inflation will be back.
I disagree with your initial paragraphs: anyone signing this petition either cares little for democracy, or has no effing idea how it works. The calls are particularly funny if they come from people who were anti-EU, given a very valid criticism of the EU was the Lisbon Treaty re-vote.
I agree with your last paragraph; I don't think Labour have particularly good economic policies - which is one reason I didn't vote for them. But Labour have won the chance to give their policies a try.
I think the petition is mostly to annoy and embarrass SKS.
So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
There is no chance there will be a GE or even a debate.
This is simply a way for fed up people to give HMG two fingers and embarass Reeves and Starmer.
The 2 million barrier will go today only two petitions are bigger both Brexit relayed the all time record is 6.2 million which was requesting the article 50 legilslaion was scrapped.
On the other hand after 5 months I see little sign that this government will achieve anything major on the economy. Meaningful growth is dead and inflation will be back.
I disagree with your initial paragraphs: anyone signing this petition either cares little for democracy, or has no effing idea how it works. The calls are particularly funny if they come from people who were anti-EU, given a very valid criticism of the EU was the Lisbon Treaty re-vote.
I agree with your last paragraph; I don't think Labour have particularly good economic policies - which is one reason I didn't vote for them. But Labour have won the chance to give their policies a try.
Nah, you’re over thinking this.
Petitions are a time honoured part of the British democratic system. A harmless way of venting. They don’t expect it to achieve anything - it’s the equivalent (and less expensive) than the French burning a few police cars
So "Call a General Election" is trending on Twitter, based on a petition.
The 1.8 million fuckwit respondents - at least the ones that are in the UK and are not bots - really don't like democracy, do they?
I think this government made some serious early missteps. In the last month or so, they have somewhat steadied the boat - though it is half-full of water. The idea that a government that won such a stonking majority (albeit on a relatively small percentage of the vote) should be forced out after a few months on the basis of relatively few mistakes is hilariously shit.
I didn't vote for them, and think Starmer's a poor PM. Perhaps even worse than his predecessor. But let's give his government time to actually try to implement stuff.
There is no chance there will be a GE or even a debate.
This is simply a way for fed up people to give HMG two fingers and embarass Reeves and Starmer.
The 2 million barrier will go today only two petitions are bigger both Brexit relayed the all time record is 6.2 million which was requesting the article 50 legilslaion was scrapped.
On the other hand after 5 months I see little sign that this government will achieve anything major on the economy. Meaningful growth is dead and inflation will be back.
I disagree with your initial paragraphs: anyone signing this petition either cares little for democracy, or has no effing idea how it works. The calls are particularly funny if they come from people who were anti-EU, given a very valid criticism of the EU was the Lisbon Treaty re-vote.
I agree with your last paragraph; I don't think Labour have particularly good economic policies - which is one reason I didn't vote for them. But Labour have won the chance to give their policies a try.
I think the petition is mostly to annoy and embarrass SKS.
Anything that can embarrass Sir Keir Freebee sounds good in my book. Anyone got the link?
Comments
NEW THREAD
Sure, the petition is idiotic. But so are our politicians.
It might be considered “anti supremacy of Parliament” - but it would only force* Parliament to discuss something.
*the rule about discussing something petitioned is easily got round, I understand.
One pillar of democracy is that we accept the result of a fair vote - and our GE was a fair vote - even if we disagree with it. That's something we generally do quite well in this country.
I think it goes against the tenor of our *Parliamentary Democracy* - elected oligarchy for a period of up to 5 years - but not democracy itself.
And considerable autonomy (which we exercised poorly) on how we chose to enforce them.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/brain-dead-man-wakes-up-life-support-turned-off-doctors-family-scott-marr-a8712901.html
Petitions are a time honoured part of the British democratic system. A harmless way of venting. They don’t expect it to achieve anything - it’s the equivalent (and less expensive) than the French burning a few police cars