Who on earth prefers margarine to butter? – politicalbetting.com

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Who on earth prefers margarine to butter? – politicalbetting.com

Butter is Britons' preferred spread in a sandwich by a clear marginButter: 59%Margarine: 13%Mayonnaise: 11%Something else: 5%No spread: 6%https://t.co/gxDbKuKKjA pic.twitter.com/uhN7CmoKw9

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DavidL

You need a bit of butter on your bread.

Oh and first, unlike my team who are struggling.

dixiedean

Second.
Mayonnaise with everything for me.

AugustusCarp2

In a recent parody menu I saw a dish referrred to as "refreshed wholegrain with a dairy glaze". In other words, buttered toast.

BartholomewRoberts

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

Fairliered

My son has a dairy allergy. He will be in the 13%.

rottenborough

What's the something else?

BartholomewRoberts

rottenborough said:

What's the something else?

My youngest daughter doesn't much care for butter, hates margarine, but loves peanut butter.

Malmesbury

rottenborough said:

What's the something else?

Ask the boys on fractioning column 4 at Stanlowe.

viewcode

FPT

Foxy said:

viewcode said:

If memory serves, the route to heaven is acceptance of Jesus Christ as your saviour in your heart and sincere repentance of your sins. The recommendations on how to behave are desirable but not strictly necessary except to demonstrate sincerity.

I touched on this in my header in October:

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/09/22/they-shall-take-up-serpents-god-guns-abortion-and-trump/

I think most Christians would claim that both Grace and Works are needed,

Yours is the view according to Paul, but the James 1:22-26 is pretty clear that hearing the Gospel is not enough:

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Additionally on several occasions Jesus cites as good examples people who do not abide by the scriptures such as the Roman Centurion or the Good Samaritan.

Yes you did and a very good article it was too, making my proposed Christian article entirely redundant. Your points are noted.

Chris

Vegans, perhaps?

BartholomewRoberts

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Andy_Cooke said:

williamglenn said:

The People's Vote petition demanding a Second Election has reached a million signatures.

Good news. There will be one.
It may not be until July 2029, but there will certainly be one.

Even better news, it will be the UK's 59th election not its second.

You'd have thought we'd be good at them by now. Yet we elect the Conservatives most of the time.

The problem is that the Conservatives are just too welcoming so they suck up all the political talent.

The Conservatives at their best are a broad church welcoming everyone centre right. Atheists, republicans and others can sit alongside traditional conservatives in the party. Normally.

Labour at its worst is more dominated by the "moral crusade or nothing" philosophy so are less welcoming to contradictory viewpoints.

There are noteworthy exceptions to this. Especially on the site.

You can't be an atheist and a republican and be a Tory, it is logically impossible. You could just about be a libertarian rightwinger in Reform but that is it.

Just as you can't be in Labour and want to privatise the NHS and most public services, it is logically impossible.

There are limits to how broad church our main parties can be

Your first sentence is nonsense - there's far more about the country than Church and King.

Not for Tories, those are literally the foundations of Toryism

Well I don't know whether that's true or not, but I can tell you that if the Tories decided to campaign on 'Church and King' now they'd barely get a vote.

Edit: As to the first point, it turns out very definitely not - admittedly this view is based on limited research, but backs up my prior thoughts and the rebelling against throne altar and cottage - which is better known.

On King over President Starmer or President Farage they certainly would get votes and many still like the notion of an established church offering weddings, funerals etc locally and in C of E form.

Though whether such principles are as electable now as they were in the 18th and early 19th century is irrelevant, they are still the core principles of Toryism

Well you're just wrong. How do you counter the throne altar and cottage thing? Toryism was a movement against the narrow view, an embracement of what we have rather than what we are supposedly given.

What on earth has that got to do with anything? The Tory Party was founded in the 18th century to be the party of King, established C of E and the landed gentry, they were literally its founding principles

I hate to break it to you, but that Tory Party died in the 19th Century.

The modern Conservative Party has no objection to atheists, like Crispin Blunt, or republicans like Douglas Carswell.

rottenborough

Just your common and garden US defence secretary:


https://snyder.substack.com/p/pete-hegseth-the-short-course

algarkirk

The Queen took
The butter
And brought it to
His Majesty;
The King said,
"Butter, eh?"
And bounced out of bed.
"Nobody," he said,
As he kissed her
Tenderly,
"Nobody," he said,
As he slid down the banisters,
"Nobody,
My darling,
Could call me
A fussy man -
BUT
I do like a little bit of butter to my bread!"

algarkirk

QTWTAI vegans.

viewcode

If an episode of QI is to be believed, "margarine" is no longer sold in shops, instead there are yellow things which are collectively referred to as "spread". Things like Bertolli, Clover, Flora, etc

Stereodog

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

rcs1000

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

WhisperingOracle

Disraeli was really the beginning of modern Consevatism, and his religion was theatre.

Hence modern Conservative Prime Ministers and leaders enjoy much greater theatrical displays of loyalty before they're dispatched than Labour, for instance, and the Conservatives have also been the ones much more wedded to the theatrical aspect of the monarchy and state , since Victoria.

algarkirk

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement.

It all depends on context. Not great with strawberry jam or honey, but as a foundation for some forms of prawn or possibly beef sandwiches it will do.

rcs1000

On topic: spreadable butter is - of course - regular butter mixed with vegetable oil to ensure that it is soft at lower temperatures. And given that margarine is basically just vegetable oil, the correct answer is surely that most people prefer a mix of butter and margarine. (The ratio is typically about two parts butter to one part vegetable oils, if anyone cares.)

Stereodog

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

Thanks for th correction. Maybe it's residual memories of Happy Days style programmes where the mother is making rounds of sandwiches using a big jar of mayonnaise.

MattW

I'm with @Leon this afternoon - our confused Elon.

Needed a rest after a latish lunch, and now it's effing dark.

algarkirk

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

A Cumberland old timer, now sadly departed this life, told me that in the 1951 and 1955 general elections in the Penrith and Border constituency, also now departed this life, a William Brownrigg stood as an Independent Conservative on a manifesto including the abolition of margarine.

On a historical note, in the 1955 election Brownrigg lost (368 votes, more than double his 1951 vote) to one William Whitelaw (23,274 votes). So at least it was close.

rcs1000

algarkirk said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement.

It all depends on context. Not great with strawberry jam or honey, but as a foundation for some forms of prawn or possibly beef sandwiches it will do.

It has its role, certainly. But it is not the main bread spread.

pm215

Depends what you mean by "prefer", but these days I use one of those "lower your cholesterol" spreads. According to the small print on the tub this is a "vegetable fat spread with added sterols", and contains no butter, so I guess that counts as margarine.

Butter is nicer but also an absolute pain for being unspreadable, and I don't actually care all that much.

rcs1000

Stereodog said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

Thanks for th correction. Maybe it's residual memories of Happy Days style programmes where the mother is making rounds of sandwiches using a big jar of mayonnaise.

You know where people do use mayonnaise over here? They use it on the outside of bread when making grilled cheese sandwiches. (Weirdly, grilled cheese sandwiches are actually fried.)

Instead of putting oil in the pan, the mayonnaise on the outside of the bread browns very nicely, and is far less overwhelming (or unhealthy).

rcs1000

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

Malmesbury

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

Thanks for th correction. Maybe it's residual memories of Happy Days style programmes where the mother is making rounds of sandwiches using a big jar of mayonnaise.

You know where people do use mayonnaise over here? They use it on the outside of bread when making grilled cheese sandwiches. (Weirdly, grilled cheese sandwiches are actually fried.)

Instead of putting oil in the pan, the mayonnaise on the outside of the bread browns very nicely, and is far less overwhelming (or unhealthy).

American cooking is weird.

These are the people who celebrate trying to make tea with cold harbour water.

Sunil_Prasannan

Is the mayo vegan?

Malmesbury

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Is the mayo vegan?

When it's used on a version burger, it is.

StillWaters

algarkirk said:

The Queen took
The butter
And brought it to
His Majesty;
The King said,
"Butter, eh?"
And bounced out of bed.
"Nobody," he said,
As he kissed her
Tenderly,
"Nobody," he said,
As he slid down the banisters,
"Nobody,
My darling,
Could call me
A fussy man -
BUT
I do like a little bit of butter to my bread!"

Belloc?

mwadams

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

Thanks for th correction. Maybe it's residual memories of Happy Days style programmes where the mother is making rounds of sandwiches using a big jar of mayonnaise.

You know where people do use mayonnaise over here? They use it on the outside of bread when making grilled cheese sandwiches. (Weirdly, grilled cheese sandwiches are actually fried.)

Instead of putting oil in the pan, the mayonnaise on the outside of the bread browns very nicely, and is far less overwhelming (or unhealthy).

That is a good place for mayo. And fish-based sarnies. But you aren't going to be using it with your bramble jam.

algarkirk

StillWaters said:

algarkirk said:

The Queen took
The butter
And brought it to
His Majesty;
The King said,
"Butter, eh?"
And bounced out of bed.
"Nobody," he said,
As he kissed her
Tenderly,
"Nobody," he said,
As he slid down the banisters,
"Nobody,
My darling,
Could call me
A fussy man -
BUT
I do like a little bit of butter to my bread!"

Belloc?

A A Milne

StillWaters

WhisperingOracle said:

Disraeli was really the beginning of modern Consevatism, and his religion was theatre.

Hence modern Conservative Prime Ministers and leaders enjoy much greater theatrical displays of loyalty before they're dispatched than Labour, for instance, and the Conservatives have also been the ones much more wedded to the theatrical aspect of the monarchy and state , since Victoria.

Ironically since Vicky liking for Melbourne created a massive political crisis

LostPassword

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

rcs1000

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

Ok

ANA is in my bad books already. There was I, chilling in the lounge, when it was announced that the flight was boarding.

So, I pack my things and wander down to the gate. And you know what... the plane is not boarding, and won't be for another 15 to 20 minutes.

TheScreamingEagles

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Is the mayo vegan?

Plenty of mayo is vegan.

https://www.ocado.com/products/nando-s-vegan-perinaise-526885011

StillWaters

algarkirk said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

A Cumberland old timer, now sadly departed this life, told me that in the 1951 and 1955 general elections in the Penrith and Border constituency, also now departed this life, a William Brownrigg stood as an Independent Conservative on a manifesto including the abolition of margarine.

On a historical note, in the 1955 election Brownrigg lost (368 votes, more than double his 1951 vote) to one William Whitelaw (23,274 votes). So at least it was close.

And if you extrapolate that, al la @HYUFD, when would he have won?

StillWaters

rcs1000 said:

algarkirk said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement.

It all depends on context. Not great with strawberry jam or honey, but as a foundation for some forms of prawn or possibly beef sandwiches it will do.

It has its role roll, certainly. But it is not the main bread spread.

Fixed it for you

StillWaters

algarkirk said:

StillWaters said:

algarkirk said:

The Queen took
The butter
And brought it to
His Majesty;
The King said,
"Butter, eh?"
And bounced out of bed.
"Nobody," he said,
As he kissed her
Tenderly,
"Nobody," he said,
As he slid down the banisters,
"Nobody,
My darling,
Could call me
A fussy man -
BUT
I do like a little bit of butter to my bread!"

Belloc?

A A Milne

When we were six I guess? Been many years since I read that but had a lovely illustrated version

TheScreamingEagles

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Your mother is lucky social services didn't launch an investigation.

HYUFD

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Andy_Cooke said:

williamglenn said:

The People's Vote petition demanding a Second Election has reached a million signatures.

Good news. There will be one.
It may not be until July 2029, but there will certainly be one.

Even better news, it will be the UK's 59th election not its second.

You'd have thought we'd be good at them by now. Yet we elect the Conservatives most of the time.

The problem is that the Conservatives are just too welcoming so they suck up all the political talent.

The Conservatives at their best are a broad church welcoming everyone centre right. Atheists, republicans and others can sit alongside traditional conservatives in the party. Normally.

Labour at its worst is more dominated by the "moral crusade or nothing" philosophy so are less welcoming to contradictory viewpoints.

There are noteworthy exceptions to this. Especially on the site.

You can't be an atheist and a republican and be a Tory, it is logically impossible. You could just about be a libertarian rightwinger in Reform but that is it.

Just as you can't be in Labour and want to privatise the NHS and most public services, it is logically impossible.

There are limits to how broad church our main parties can be

Your first sentence is nonsense - there's far more about the country than Church and King.

Not for Tories, those are literally the foundations of Toryism

Well I don't know whether that's true or not, but I can tell you that if the Tories decided to campaign on 'Church and King' now they'd barely get a vote.

Edit: As to the first point, it turns out very definitely not - admittedly this view is based on limited research, but backs up my prior thoughts and the rebelling against throne altar and cottage - which is better known.

On King over President Starmer or President Farage they certainly would get votes and many still like the notion of an established church offering weddings, funerals etc locally and in C of E form.

Though whether such principles are as electable now as they were in the 18th and early 19th century is irrelevant, they are still the core principles of Toryism

Well you're just wrong. How do you counter the throne altar and cottage thing? Toryism was a movement against the narrow view, an embracement of what we have rather than what we are supposedly given.

What on earth has that got to do with anything? The Tory Party was founded in the 18th century to be the party of King, established C of E and the landed gentry, they were literally its founding principles

I hate to break it to you, but that Tory Party died in the 19th Century.

The modern Conservative Party has no objection to atheists, like Crispin Blunt, or republicans like Douglas Carswell.

No, the Tory Party is still very much a key component of today's Conservative Party.

Blunt is a monarchist and Carswell was in UKIP when last an MP NOT the Tory Party he certainly never once mentioned backing a republic for the brief period he was a Tory MP and indeed he now lives in the US. Though while Republicans there may not want the monarchy back they certainly won't be atheists, especially in Mississippi where he is based.

So you cannot be an atheist and republican and a Tory anymore than you can be in the Labour Party and want to privatise the NHS and fund healthcare entirely by private health insurance and ban trade unions

BartholomewRoberts

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Its concerning how long the myth that butter is bad for you and margarine healthier for you persisted.

Thankfully we know better now.

Like the myths that fats are bad for you, or that vegetables are necessary, both of which some still persist with to this day.

algarkirk

StillWaters said:

algarkirk said:

StillWaters said:

algarkirk said:

The Queen took
The butter
And brought it to
His Majesty;
The King said,
"Butter, eh?"
And bounced out of bed.
"Nobody," he said,
As he kissed her
Tenderly,
"Nobody," he said,
As he slid down the banisters,
"Nobody,
My darling,
Could call me
A fussy man -
BUT
I do like a little bit of butter to my bread!"

Belloc?

A A Milne

When we were six I guess? Been many years since I read that but had a lovely illustrated version

It is one of the two poetry collections. Can't remember which.
Edit: It's from When we were very young.
Here is the whole thing:

https://allpoetry.com/The-King's-Breakfast

carnforth

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

Taz

TheScreamingEagles said:

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Your mother is lucky social services didn't launch an investigation.

Making scones with margarine should be enough to be arrested.

SandyRentool

What I have never understood is referring to butter as "Best Butter".

eek

rcs1000 said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

Ok

ANA is in my bad books already. There was I, chilling in the lounge, when it was announced that the flight was boarding.

So, I pack my things and wander down to the gate. And you know what... the plane is not boarding, and won't be for another 15 to 20 minutes.

Could be worse - TUI allowed the first 30 of us to board a flight back from Turkey only to then ask us to leave the plane because (in Turkey) passengers aren't allowed on the plane when it's being refuelled.

LostPassword

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Its concerning how long the myth that butter is bad for you and margarine healthier for you persisted.

Thankfully we know better now.

Like the myths that fats are bad for you, or that vegetables are necessary, both of which some still persist with to this day.

On the question of the relative merits of vegetables and beef, all I will say is that my digestive tract clearly functions in a different way to your digestive tract and I will keep eating vegetables.

Nigelb

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

It is with pitta bread.

Taz

Nigelb said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

It is with pitta bread.

Nah, hot chilli sauce all the way

LostPassword

SandyRentool said:

What I have never understood is referring to butter as "Best Butter".

I must assume that this is because you've never had good butter, and so you don't realise that the butter you are having is not the best.

malcolmg

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

StillWaters

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

How do you know?

viewcode

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

• Los Angeles to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  
• London to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  

Where are you flying from?

Casino_Royale

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

The Americans haven't got a clue what they're doing with food and the ICJ should insist on jurisdiction and prosecute them with full fervour as a matter of urgency.

MattW

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

I have something for keeping butter out of the fridge - a butter dish .

If it melts too much, the house is perhaps too warm.

If it needs to come out of the fridge in summer, long enough in the warming drawer for me to make a cup of real coffee is just about right.

Casino_Royale

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

Are the films that bad in first class?

BartholomewRoberts

LostPassword said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Its concerning how long the myth that butter is bad for you and margarine healthier for you persisted.

Thankfully we know better now.

Like the myths that fats are bad for you, or that vegetables are necessary, both of which some still persist with to this day.

On the question of the relative merits of vegetables and beef, all I will say is that my digestive tract clearly functions in a different way to your digestive tract and I will keep eating vegetables.

To each their own.

Different people's bodies do react differently to different foodstuffs, I completely agree with that. I would not propose my diet for everyone.

The problem is for too long people did advocate one size fits all nonsense about having to eat five a day of vegetables, avoiding fats, and all that bullshit which doesn't work for many, many people - and has led to epidemics of obesity and diabetes.

Over a year now as a carnivore and I don't look back or miss vegetables at all and am in the healthiest condition I've been in a very long time, and probably avoided diabetes which runs in my family as a result.

kle4

Nothing wrong with margerine.

Northern_Al

Just skimmed through the previous thread.
You can tell it's Sunday.

Nigelb

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Andy_Cooke said:

williamglenn said:

The People's Vote petition demanding a Second Election has reached a million signatures.

Good news. There will be one.
It may not be until July 2029, but there will certainly be one.

Even better news, it will be the UK's 59th election not its second.

You'd have thought we'd be good at them by now. Yet we elect the Conservatives most of the time.

The problem is that the Conservatives are just too welcoming so they suck up all the political talent.

The Conservatives at their best are a broad church welcoming everyone centre right. Atheists, republicans and others can sit alongside traditional conservatives in the party. Normally.

Labour at its worst is more dominated by the "moral crusade or nothing" philosophy so are less welcoming to contradictory viewpoints.

There are noteworthy exceptions to this. Especially on the site.

You can't be an atheist and a republican and be a Tory, it is logically impossible. You could just about be a libertarian rightwinger in Reform but that is it.

Just as you can't be in Labour and want to privatise the NHS and most public services, it is logically impossible.

There are limits to how broad church our main parties can be

Your first sentence is nonsense - there's far more about the country than Church and King.

Not for Tories, those are literally the foundations of Toryism

Well I don't know whether that's true or not, but I can tell you that if the Tories decided to campaign on 'Church and King' now they'd barely get a vote.

Edit: As to the first point, it turns out very definitely not - admittedly this view is based on limited research, but backs up my prior thoughts and the rebelling against throne altar and cottage - which is better known.

On King over President Starmer or President Farage they certainly would get votes and many still like the notion of an established church offering weddings, funerals etc locally and in C of E form.

Though whether such principles are as electable now as they were in the 18th and early 19th century is irrelevant, they are still the core principles of Toryism

Well you're just wrong. How do you counter the throne altar and cottage thing? Toryism was a movement against the narrow view, an embracement of what we have rather than what we are supposedly given.

What on earth has that got to do with anything? The Tory Party was founded in the 18th century to be the party of King, established C of E and the landed gentry, they were literally its founding principles

I hate to break it to you, but that Tory Party died in the 19th Century.

The modern Conservative Party has no objection to atheists, like Crispin Blunt, or republicans like Douglas Carswell.

No, the Tory Party is still very much a key component of today's Conservative Party.

Blunt is a monarchist and Carswell was in UKIP when last an MP NOT the Tory Party he certainly never once mentioned backing a republic for the brief period he was a Tory MP and indeed he now lives in the US. Though while Republicans there may not want the monarchy back they certainly won't be atheists, especially in Mississippi where he is based.

So you cannot be an atheist and republican and a Tory anymore than you can be in the Labour Party and want to privatise the NHS and fund healthcare entirely by private health insurance and ban trade unions

What you mean is that you can’t be in HYUFD’s club.
The Tories get to choose their policies, even if some are more likely than others.

Carnyx

StillWaters said:

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

How do you know?

Malky's being entirely reasonable. There's quite an overlap between smell and taste, especially in the back of the throat, as any oenophile knows. So ...

Leon

Welcome back to LARD

MattW

Since we are doing cooking, I have started my first batch of chuckleberry vinegar today, using my Blackberry Vinegar recipe. It will need a week to steep.

This is the recipe I use, but with twice as many blackberries and half as much sugar. I also mash it with a potato masher on several days to get all the flavour, and make a chutney with the residue.

https://www.eatweeds.co.uk/blackberry-vinegar-recipe

It used to have lots of comments on it going back to 2008, including from me. And alas! the chutney recipe is gone from the comments - will have to look up the version I printed.

Chuckleberries are a combination of red current, blackcurrant and gooseberry, and are far tarter than I expected, so I'll ramp up the sugar a bit to get something properly sweet and sour.

Best served with Yorkshire puds as dessert, or on Bero pancakes. Or as a salad dressing.

Casino_Royale

Fuck sake, dark at 7.21pm

Alphabet_Soup

Casino_Royale said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

Are the films that bad in first class?

Are you suggesting Robert uses public transport?

malcolmg

StillWaters said:

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

How do you know?

I tasted it once as a boy

StillWaters

malcolmg said:

StillWaters said:

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

How do you know?

I tasted it once as a boy

Who on earth fed you margerine? They should be locked up!

Leon

carnforth said:

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

If we’re doing “beautiful breakfast photos” here’s one of my top five

Without googling, can anyone guess where it is?

JohnLilburne

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

I keep butter on the counter all year round, in a glass butter dish. In the winter I have St Helens Farm goats butter, which is softer. In the summer I have that French/Breton butter with salt crystals in, which is firmer. (Although Waitrose now do a nice West Country version).

I do have a couple of blocks of cheap salted and unsalted in the fridge, for cooking with

kinabalu

Northern_Al said:

Just skimmed through the previous thread.
You can tell it's Sunday.

Indeed. And on topic, these things ("taste") defy rational analysis.

Eg I prefer Wombling Merry Christmas to Fairytale of New York. It's plain wrong, I know it is, does me no PR favours, but it's the case.

I think the former is one of the most underrated Christmas tracks ever, and the latter one of the most overrated.

Sorry not sorry.

Casino_Royale

Leon said:

carnforth said:

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

If we’re doing “beautiful breakfast photos” here’s one of my top five

Without googling, can anyone guess where it is?

'Spoons in Polperro.

Luckyguy1983

I am a big butter fan. The very best butter is the nearly orange Jersey variety, full of vitamin A from all the grass.

OnlyLivingBoy

I like margarine more than butter. Sorry, not sorry.

Stereodog

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Its concerning how long the myth that butter is bad for you and margarine healthier for you persisted.

Thankfully we know better now.

Like the myths that fats are bad for you, or that vegetables are necessary, both of which some still persist with to this day.

For some reason my mum still insists on baking with Stork even though she'd use butter for everything else.

Sunil_Prasannan

Leon said:

carnforth said:

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

If we’re doing “beautiful breakfast photos” here’s one of my top five

Without googling, can anyone guess where it is?

Sphincter-on-Sea?

Big_G_NorthWales

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

Omnium said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

williamglenn said:

kinabalu said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Andy_Cooke said:

williamglenn said:

The People's Vote petition demanding a Second Election has reached a million signatures.

Good news. There will be one.
It may not be until July 2029, but there will certainly be one.

Even better news, it will be the UK's 59th election not its second.

You'd have thought we'd be good at them by now. Yet we elect the Conservatives most of the time.

The problem is that the Conservatives are just too welcoming so they suck up all the political talent.

The Conservatives at their best are a broad church welcoming everyone centre right. Atheists, republicans and others can sit alongside traditional conservatives in the party. Normally.

Labour at its worst is more dominated by the "moral crusade or nothing" philosophy so are less welcoming to contradictory viewpoints.

There are noteworthy exceptions to this. Especially on the site.

You can't be an atheist and a republican and be a Tory, it is logically impossible. You could just about be a libertarian rightwinger in Reform but that is it.

Just as you can't be in Labour and want to privatise the NHS and most public services, it is logically impossible.

There are limits to how broad church our main parties can be

Your first sentence is nonsense - there's far more about the country than Church and King.

Not for Tories, those are literally the foundations of Toryism

Well I don't know whether that's true or not, but I can tell you that if the Tories decided to campaign on 'Church and King' now they'd barely get a vote.

Edit: As to the first point, it turns out very definitely not - admittedly this view is based on limited research, but backs up my prior thoughts and the rebelling against throne altar and cottage - which is better known.

On King over President Starmer or President Farage they certainly would get votes and many still like the notion of an established church offering weddings, funerals etc locally and in C of E form.

Though whether such principles are as electable now as they were in the 18th and early 19th century is irrelevant, they are still the core principles of Toryism

Well you're just wrong. How do you counter the throne altar and cottage thing? Toryism was a movement against the narrow view, an embracement of what we have rather than what we are supposedly given.

What on earth has that got to do with anything? The Tory Party was founded in the 18th century to be the party of King, established C of E and the landed gentry, they were literally its founding principles

I hate to break it to you, but that Tory Party died in the 19th Century.

The modern Conservative Party has no objection to atheists, like Crispin Blunt, or republicans like Douglas Carswell.

No, the Tory Party is still very much a key component of today's Conservative Party.

Blunt is a monarchist and Carswell was in UKIP when last an MP NOT the Tory Party he certainly never once mentioned backing a republic for the brief period he was a Tory MP and indeed he now lives in the US. Though while Republicans there may not want the monarchy back they certainly won't be atheists, especially in Mississippi where he is based.

So you cannot be an atheist and republican and a Tory anymore than you can be in the Labour Party and want to privatise the NHS and fund healthcare entirely by private health insurance and ban trade unions

What you mean is that you can’t be in HYUFD’s club.
The Tories get to choose their policies, even if some are more likely than others.

The relief is I am not in @HYUFD club, nor would I want to be

I may have been born with Hilters bombs dropping on our neighbours with deadly effect, lived through his much vaunted 50's with rationing and the like, but being alive today is a privilege with so much to be grateful for and being largely enlightened from religious bigotry

I am not a conservative in his eyes, even though I have given the party decades of support, and, strangely never met anyone like him who insults so many conservative because they are not pure in his judgement or are enthralled by Reform and Farage as he is

Casino_Royale

I do wish people would lay off @HYUFD and the abuse. Yes, he likes to post slightly dogmatic highly traditionalist High Tory views, and then stubbornly digs in when challenged, but that's no reason to be nasty.

I'd say the best way to lower divorce rates would be more marriage courses and marriage counselling.

Marriage is hard and we've had some tough moments. We still hark back to the all weekend marriage course the CofE ran for us before we got hitched in our local church, which we still find useful.

Nigelb

Taz said:

Nigelb said:

rcs1000 said:

Stereodog said:

Personally I think that margarine is a slightly old fashioned term. That 13% probably covers a lot of vegans who use plant based spread. I understand that Americans mostly use mayonnaise as their primary sandwich spread.

You understand incorrectly. Mayonnaise, while certainly used as a spread for some, is certainly not the primary form of bread enhancement. (Edit to add: for Americans, in case I was unclear.)

It is with pitta bread.

Nah, hot chilli sauce all the way

I can’t eat chilli.
Allergic to it.

rcs1000

viewcode said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

• Los Angeles to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  
• London to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  

Where are you flying from?

LA

OnlyLivingBoy

Leon said:

carnforth said:

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

If we’re doing “beautiful breakfast photos” here’s one of my top five

Without googling, can anyone guess where it is?

Skeggy?

rcs1000

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

• Los Angeles to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  
• London to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  

Where are you flying from?

LA

Take off at 1130am Sunday... Land 430pm Monday.

On the way back, I take off at 9pm Tuesday... and land at 2pm Tuesday.

Sunil_Prasannan

Casino_Royale said:

I do wish people would lay off @HYUFD and the abuse. Yes, he likes to post slightly dogmatic highly traditionalist High Tory views, and then stubbornly digs in when challenged, but that's no reason to be nasty.

I'd say the best way to lower divorce rates would be more marriage courses and marriage counselling.

Marriage is hard and we've had some tough moments. We still hark back to the all weekend marriage course the CofE ran for us before we got hitched in our local church, which we still find useful.

God is single!

Leon

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

carnforth said:

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

If we’re doing “beautiful breakfast photos” here’s one of my top five

Without googling, can anyone guess where it is?

Skeggy?

Dammit. Right first time!

No, only joking. Close tho

rcs1000

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

I'm afraid I've not been able to make that comparison. But thanks for taking one for the team, Malc.

Big_G_NorthWales

To those interested in the assisted dying debate Election Maps has an interesting analysis of mps voting intentions

https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1860711024933953615?t=t_v9A2ZOhPb0d28jmlFCYA&s=19

rcs1000

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Its concerning how long the myth that butter is bad for you and margarine healthier for you persisted.

Thankfully we know better now.

Like the myths that fats are bad for you, or that vegetables are necessary, both of which some still persist with to this day.

When you say "myth", I think you meant to say "carefully crafted message from giant food companies".

DoctorG

Non politics betting post

Following on from Bart's post on Liverpool odds for the title, they're now down to 17/20, or 1.97 on betfair. Well done to those who backed them at 8/1 at start of season, bookies expected Arsenal to be the main challenger, prob thinking the Klopp departure would take effect there. I can't see Arsenal having the consistency to challenge over the season, Man City's aging squad and injuries are taking their toll.

In the championship Leeds look short at 8/13, I like the look of Burnley at 12/1 (bet 365), they're only 2 points behind

In league 1 Birmingham have stumbled lately, the top 2 can be backed at 9/2 Wycombe, and Wrexham 14/1 (Hills) both look decent

ydoethur

malcolmg said:

StillWaters said:

malcolmg said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

I used to prefer margarine a long time ago as it is easier to spread straight from the fridge than butter and for no other reason.

However now that you can get spreadable butter, that is far superior and margarine can go in the bin as far as I'm concerned.

Yes I know you can get things to keep butter out of the fridge. No I don't have one and am not interested in one, I'll stick to spreadable butter thanks.

margarine tastes like shit

How do you know?

I tasted it once as a boy

Bizarre. Why would you do that?

And also, when did you eat this margarine?

MattW

This is one for Pentecostalism-enjoying @Foxy , following his mention of his Trump and Evangelicals article.

Tony Campolo died about a fortnight ago, and I don't think I mentioned it. He was a Usonian fundamentalist turned evangelical who turned left not right, and stirred up that wing of the churches to social action - others would dismiss it as "social gospel".

He gave my favourite typology of black-led and white-led churches.

"In a white-led church, the preacher is the performer and the congregation are the audience. In a black-led church, the preacher is the conductor, the congregation are the performers, and God is the audience."

Obituary.
https://www.premierchristianity.com/obituaries/tony-campolo-1935-2024-the-red-letter-christian-who-provoked-the-church-to-action/18509.article

Big_G_NorthWales

rcs1000 said:

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

• Los Angeles to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  
• London to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  

Where are you flying from?

LA

Take off at 1130am Sunday... Land 430pm Monday.

On the way back, I take off at 9pm Tuesday... and land at 2pm Tuesday.

I have flown Sydney to Tokyo and Tokyo to Heathrow

The Sydney to Tokyo was with ANA and they were excellent

The return was with BA who were average

ydoethur

On topic:

1) Cheapskates;

2) People who are dieting.

*opens fridge and looks mournfully at his not buttery spreads*

viewcode

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

• Los Angeles to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  
• London to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  

Where are you flying from?

LA

Have you taken the different time zones into account - ie are you going to be in the air for six hours or eleven by your personal clock?

Pagan2

fpt

Luckyguy1983 said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Stuartinromford said:

MaxPB said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_Cooke said:

HYUFD said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:

.

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

HYUFD said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

HYUFD said:

Stereodog said:

HYUFD said:

Fishing said:

I lean in favour of assisted dying, but don't have a strong view.

Of course, one can take one's stance from our moral leaders - any proposed reform that churches oppose, from ending the burning of witches and heretics to legalising divorce to more or less anything Mrs Thatcher did, is usually an excellent idea.

Divorce laws in the UK are too liberal now with no fault divorce. Having a negative effect on the family and fertility rates

What conceivable benefit would you expect to acru from restricting divorce? Couples stuck in loveless marriages are not likely to bring children into them and if they did it would be for entirely the wrong reasons to the detriment of everyone.

Unless it was an arranged marriage no marriage would be loveless otherwise they would never have got married in the first place.

No marriage is perfect, you work through the downs and arguments as well as the ups

What a naive view.

Love sometimes lasts, but love sometimes dies. At which point it becomes loveless.

Go through ups and downs, yes, my wife and I have had ups and downs and we still love each other. That is a healthy marriage.

If you only have downs and the love is gone, then it's not a healthy marriage and it should be terminated.

All my biological grandparents divorced. Both my dad's parents remarried before I was even born and had a happy, healthy second marriage that took them to the end of their lives. Them divorcing and remarrying was the best thing that ever happened to them, and the family as a whole.

I was also lucky enough then to grow up with 5 grandparents (3 biological, 2 not) and am fortunate still have the two non-biological grandparents whom I love as my grandparents every bit as much as the biological ones.

My father's parents divorced and it had a negative impact on his teenage years and hit his mother hard while his father remarried.

Divorce is simply too easy nowadays, unless there is adultery or domestic violence involved divorce should be an absolute last resort and best avoided

My mother got a divorce in the late 1960's. It was incredibly difficult and took an absolute age, being one of the reasons the Denning Reforms came about. My father was a serial philanderer and he walked out the family home just after my sister was born in 1962. There was no fault on my mother's part. He was finally forced by the courts to pay maintenance in the princely sum of £4 a week. But the marriage still could not be ended for an age longer.

Allowing my mother to escape being trapped in a marriage was no "last resort"; splitting from him was not "best avoided", as for one thing it would have prevented her getting another successful, joyous marriage to my stepfather. The strain of the broken relationship and the attempts to get a divorce caused her to have several nervous breakdowns. No child should have had to endure seeing their parent go through ECT.

Your world view is so constrained. It would result in so much pain for others if rigidly adopted.

I have already said I don't oppose divorce on the grounds of adultery, even Jesus did not oppose divorce when one party had committed sexual immorality and cheated on the other.

That is not the same as supporting no fault divorce though, which I oppose even though it is now legal in the UK

"Sorry, kids, me and yer dad can't split up, even though we hate each other because some bloke called Jesus, who may or may not have existed 2000 years ago, wouldn't like it and the government don't like it very much, either, so we'll just stay together and make your life a misery until you're old enough to leave home"
That's right?

If you clearly hated each other you would never have married in the first place. Most kids want both their parents at home with them

1 - People change
2 - Sometimes, especially when young and full of hormones, we make bad decisions
3 - Information that wasn't known beforehand can come to light

Your stance rejects all of the above.
My mother is twice divorced. Anathema to you.
For her first marriage, she fell deeply in love. A year or two down the line, her husband was diagnosed with schizophrenia. They had one daughter by then, but decided to divorce when, in the middle of an episode, he threatened the baby.

For her second marriage, she married "on the rebound." Partly because she was now used to being away from her over-controlling mother. She and my father had very different personalities - which they found out. Unfortunately, after the marriage. After several years of trying their best to make it work (and two children), they agreed to divorce.

To be honest, their divorce was the best thing they could have done for the children (me included). Rather than grow up in an air of mutual resentment and "making the best of it" through clenched teeth, we grew up in a home of love, learning, and laughter. Mum and Dad got on much better after the divorce and when they could live separately and when they didn't have to be in each other's business all the time. I actually think it was that which may have led to my sister and I both being in stable long-term marriages (her for 30 years+ at this point, me approaching 25 years). We didn't have the experience of the resentment we would doubtless have had in that alternate universe.

I reject entirely your didactic and unempathic stance.

Yes empathy is only uber liberalism, everyone else is evil and beyond the pale. Marriage, commitment of both parents to raising children, the nation's fertility rate, all irrelevant in comparison to the desires of the self first.

Well tough, I represent an argument millions agree with, especially the religious and don't give a shit whether you dislike me making it or not I will continue to do so

You represent an argument that was rejected 70 years ago and continues to be rejected since.

Far from it, Italy has recently elected a government with a more traditional view of women and the family, the US has also just elected a President and Congress with a more traditional view of the family.

The backlash against wokeism and uber liberalism has begun

Wrong.

America has just elected a twice divorced, repeatedly unfaithful adulterer as President.

Not a traditional view of the family.

And Giorgia Meloni has had a kid out of wedlock. Not exactly a bastion of religious morality.

One of the curiosities of right-populism is how many of its leaders don't reflect the values their rhetoric espouses. There's a definite lack of Corbyn/Livingstone like figures- even when their views were odd/wrong, they did sort of try to live by them.

Not that curious. There's a simple explanation.

Neither the leaders nor the voters give the slightest damn about Biblical values. HYUFD shows his contempt for the teaching of Jesus on a daily basis.

All they care about is cherrypicking elements they care about and then telling other people what they can and can't do.

Rubbish, Jesus was not a communist woke social liberal

For his day he bloody well was.

Overturning the money tables and the whole eye of the needle thing. Wanting to feed the hungry, help the poor, heal the sick.

He was incredibly woke for his era.

Wokeism is ultra pro LGBTQ+, pro division on race and sexuality lines with a particular rejection of white heterosexual male 'privilege' and uber feminist (albeit with some clash with them and the equally woke uber trans).

It is perfectly possible for big corporations to be very woke and many now are and for a poor man to be socially conservative and anti woke. Hence Harris won lots of executives from the former and Trump lots of the latter

I would seriously recommend you and and chill for a bit offline. You used to be a fairly mainstream Tory, but this culture war stuff from you is getting increasingly strange.

Jesus was clear that the route to heaven was not via the rules and traditions of the Pharisees but rather via compassion and charity to the least in society.

On personal morality his most pertinent point when stopping a stoning of an adulteress was "let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

I think it is incorrect and blasphemous to claim Jesus for any political party or view. His Kingdom is not of this world.

If Christianity and its Churches were more like you and Jesus, and less like HYUFD and Paul, I'd respect it a lot more.

Christians are still humans, they are just Christian ones. In most cases, following the example of Christ leads to living a life with a greater element of giving and social responsibility, but it doesn't transform you into an angel.

A significant problem is that far too many Christians do not try to follow the example of Christ, and instead pick the bits out of his life and the bible that allow them to live their lives as they want. Which Christ may not have approved of.

I'm really at the stage where I do wonder if organised religion has caused far more harm to the world than it has caused good.

If you have the statistics to support this view, I am interested to read them. Everything that I have read indicates that on average, Christians are far likelier to engage in charitable and other positive social activity than their non-Christian counterparts.

I also think that there's a huge trend in popular media to demonise Christianity, in ways both clearly stated (evil Christian characters) and indicated (evil characters in fantasy or pre-Christian settings but who demonstrate clear Christian traits), and this does colour views, especially when you don't really have your guard up against what is basically propaganda.

No statistics. But I would point you to our very own HYUFD as an example of someone who wants more wrong done in the world. As this thread shows.

"especially when you don't really have your guard up against what is basically propaganda."

Ahem. *you* said that????

Propaganda can come in the form of misinformation, but it can also come in the form of negative portrayals of a target group in popular drama - something discovered by the Germans when they created Jud Suss, a drama that featured an evil Jew, which was enormously more successful than their previous attempts at propaganda film documentaries portraying Jews as rats, which had been counterproductive. Similar portrayals of Christians are everywhere in popular culture.

I can't think of any such portrayals of Christians in popular culture, which is unsurprising given that Christians are a major consumer of pop culture and people don't like pissing off their customers.

What I do see is such Christians in real life, such as HYUFD of this parish.

Most pop-culture references to Christianity are gently jovial than outright nasty portrayals. And atheists tend to have equally jovial references too.

EG this exchange between the very atheist Sheldon Cooper and his very religious mother after he accidentally sees his mother engaged in coitus outside of wedlock.

Sheldon Cooper : I think what bothers me the most is the hypocrisy. Doesn't this contradict all the religious rules you've been expounding your whole life?

Mary Cooper : You're right, it does. And it is something I have been struggling with these days.

Sheldon Cooper : Then why are you doing it?

Mary Cooper : Because I'm not perfect, Shelly, and that man's booty is.

Sheldon Cooper : Well, this is confusing for me. But I don't want to stand in the way of your happiness so I'll condemn you internally while maintaining an outward appearance of acceptance.

Mary Cooper : That is very Christian of you.

I'm not really surprised, because you are the sort of mark who would simply assimilate such material without giving it any thought, except to grow a bit more strident in your anti-Christian diatribes.

A random example of the explicit form would be the dramatisations of The Handmaid's Tale - but there are too many to even mention. Any explicitly Christian character in popular media is destined to turn out to be a hypocrite philanderer at best and an axe murderer at worst.

A random example of the implicit form would be from the film Clash of the Titans, where a proto-Christian sect led by a form of prophet attempts to sacrifice Princess Andromeda to the Kracken. Or in 300, where the Persian King Xerxes (I could have that name wrong) asks the disabled character to 'kneel' before him as part of an extended allegory on Christianity vs. pagan religions. Or in series one of Game of Thrones, there's a portrayal of a sect that follows 'a good shepherd', curing the body of a tribal King but seeming to steal his soul. They all end up being burned to death afaicr. You can have a good giggle at these examples, but should you adopt a more thoughtful approach and rewatch the clips, you'll see I'm right.

Oh what a pathetic snowflake you are.

None of those are remotely comparable to Germans portraying Jews as rats.

You can have a giggle at anyone and everyone, pick any category ever, including atheists, and there will be examples of people having a giggle at them, as there absolutely should be.

It is unhealthy not to have a sense of humour or self-deprecation.

I am not saying that they are remotely comparable to the Germans portraying jews as rats - they did this in The Eternal Jew, a documentary featuring stock footage of rats, which as I've said, was incredibly unpopular, making ladies faint in the cinema. The Germans then decided to stick to far more insidious portrayals within rip-roaring entertainment blockbusters, like Jud Suss, which was far more successful, and is very similar to the way Christians are portrayed by in popular drama these days: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jud_Süß
Christians are not portrayed more critically in popular dramas than anyone else.

You want to know who mostly get a bad rap in popular drama's? Its us pagans always pictured as sacrificing virgins....partaking in bizarre sexual rites etc.

MattW

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

carnforth said:

My photo today is on topic.



A delightful Morrocan breakfast in a pension in the medina of Tangier. Delightful, except for the hard margerine. And not supermarket spread, but old fashioned cooking margerine.

Of course, butter would be too expensive. But I left the marge.

If we’re doing “beautiful breakfast photos” here’s one of my top five

Without googling, can anyone guess where it is?

Skeggy?

Dammit. Right first time!

No, only joking. Close tho

SKEGGY ? !

Casino_Royale

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rcs1000 said:

rcs1000 said:

viewcode said:

rcs1000 said:

I'm about to get on a plane to Japan.

This means you lot will get the pleasure of my constant posting for about the next six hours.

Hopefully there will be decent internet.

• Los Angeles to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  
• London to Japan takes about eleven hours by air
  

Where are you flying from?

LA

Take off at 1130am Sunday... Land 430pm Monday.

On the way back, I take off at 9pm Tuesday... and land at 2pm Tuesday.

I have flown Sydney to Tokyo and Tokyo to Heathrow

The Sydney to Tokyo was with ANA and they were excellent

The return was with BA who were average

It amazes me how shite BA continually are and yet continue to prosper.

Tbf, their pilots are top-notch. But being the flag-carrier is doing an awful lot of lifting for them.

Scott_xP

Luckyguy1983 said:

I am a big butter fan. The very best butter is the nearly orange Jersey variety, full of vitamin A from all the grass.

The best butter in the UK, as recommended by Country Life, is Ampers&nd

Casino_Royale

rcs1000 said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

LostPassword said:

My mother apologised to me for feeding us margarine as children, instead of butter. We even used to bake with it, which I consider unthinkable now.

Truly the past is a foreign country.

Its concerning how long the myth that butter is bad for you and margarine healthier for you persisted.

Thankfully we know better now.

Like the myths that fats are bad for you, or that vegetables are necessary, both of which some still persist with to this day.

When you say "myth", I think you meant to say "carefully crafted message from giant food companies".

They copied nothing.

Casino_Royale

kinabalu said:

Northern_Al said:

Just skimmed through the previous thread.
You can tell it's Sunday.

Indeed. And on topic, these things ("taste") defy rational analysis.

Eg I prefer Wombling Merry Christmas to Fairytale of New York. It's plain wrong, I know it is, does me no PR favours, but it's the case.

I think the former is one of the most underrated Christmas tracks ever, and the latter one of the most overrated.

Sorry not sorry.

You crack me up.