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Voters rate Badenoch as worse than Truss – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,179
edited November 20 in General
Voters rate Badenoch as worse than Truss – politicalbetting.com

Fewer Britons have a favourable opinion of Kemi Badenoch than with previous new party leaders in the first YouGov poll of their leadershipKemi Badenoch: 21% favourableLiz Truss: 26%Boris Johnson: 33%Rishi Sunak: 34%Keir Starmer: 34%Theresa May: 48%https://t.co/C3skIxgWMQ pic.twitter.com/Ahd7VY1tKm

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Comments

  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited November 13
    Spot the difference in "don't know" between the four people who were PM and the two who weren't...

    Oh, and first.
  • US Congress discussing UAPs aka UFOs livestream
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvAHEY2lkqw
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565
    Kemi Badenoch: Not as bad as Liz Truss, yet.

    Ouch.

    I can't remember a time when I've ever taken the Conservative leader less seriously than I do now.
  • Kemi should not panic yet but I wonder if she is in danger of becoming IDS rather than Liz Truss, if she cannot improve her performance in the House, which basically means PMQs.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,832

    Kemi should not panic yet but I wonder if she is in danger of becoming IDS rather than Liz Truss, if she cannot improve her performance in the House, which basically means PMQs.

    "The based woman is here to stay, and she's turning up the bass."
  • tpfkar said:

    Kemi Badenoch: Not as bad as Liz Truss, yet.

    Ouch.

    I can't remember a time when I've ever taken the Conservative leader less seriously than I do now.

    You must be a very young person as clearly you’ve never heard of an Iain Duncan Smith.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,411

    Kemi should not panic yet but I wonder if she is in danger of becoming IDS rather than Liz Truss, if she cannot improve her performance in the House, which basically means PMQs.

    I'll say what I say about Keir Starmer.

    It's early days, yet.

    I think that KK needs to reduce her faceplant average rate to less than one per week.
  • Maybe she will surprise on the upside?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176
    edited November 13
    rcs1000 said:

    My takeaway: nobody knows Kemi yet.

    At some point that will change.

    The day after Margaret Thatcher became leader of the opposition, the Conservatives were 10/1 odds of winning the next (1979) election. We are at least four years to the next election. At this point, as you so often say, nobody knows anything... :(
  • What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    She mixed up a couple of words. That was all I noticed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,327
    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646
    Rick Scott eliminated in Senate leader race. He was Trump’s candidate.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1856742062378684787
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    tpfkar said:

    Kemi Badenoch: Not as bad as Liz Truss, yet.

    Ouch.

    I can't remember a time when I've ever taken the Conservative leader less seriously than I do now.

    You must be a very young person as clearly you’ve never heard of an Iain Duncan Smith.
    Oh if only I was.

    Even in the IDS era they still looked like they were taking opposition seriously, with a fairly traditional Conservative pitch. He might not have turned up the volume but the Tory message was out there - maybe having 165 rather than 120 MPs helped. I'm sure IDS wouldn't have coped with the age of social media and 24 hour news, and I suspect he'd have had a torrid GE2005 as leader. But at the time his reputation in the country was better than in Westminster. His support of Labour over Iraq was clearly crucial where opposition may well have brought the Blair Government down, and maybe that sticks in taking him seriously, as well as hindsight with his delivery of Universal Credit. Could you imagine Kemi seeing a change programme that large through?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,809

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    Badenoch was all over the place with her six questions, a scattergun approach of attempted gotchas with no theme or coherent philosophy. She said she supported the Labour spending increases on the NHS, but not the taxes needed to pay it.

    I thought that she would be much better at PMQs than she is, as she is generally articulate.

    I don't think she will be as bad as Truss in terms of favourability, as she lacks real power. She can only trash the Conservative Party, not a whole country.

    Ed Davey was good today, just the right note of constructive opposition. He will make a good LOTO in 2029 if he plays his cards right.
  • Kemi should not panic yet but I wonder if she is in danger of becoming IDS rather than Liz Truss, if she cannot improve her performance in the House, which basically means PMQs.

    On the evidence of 2 PMQs ?

    As I said earlier Kemi is fine but also young and new into her role

    Truss she is not
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.
  • Andy_JS said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    She mixed up a couple of words. That was all I noticed.
    Seriously, who cares?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687
    The largest "Don't know" is Starmer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687
    Sandpit said:

    Rick Scott eliminated in Senate leader race. He was Trump’s candidate.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1856742062378684787

    That makes for an interesting Senate for Trump to manage...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,687
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
    And they'll believe it when Trump tells them he has taken the US out of recession.

    Supported by Twitter/X.
  • Kemi should not panic yet but I wonder if she is in danger of becoming IDS rather than Liz Truss, if she cannot improve her performance in the House, which basically means PMQs.

    On the evidence of 2 PMQs ?

    As I said earlier Kemi is fine but also young and new into her role

    Truss she is not
    Without wishing to be ungallant, Badenoch isn't that young (barely younger than Truss was in 2021) and has served in the Cabinet for several years (IDS hadn't done so when he became Leader).

    I tend to agree that she has time - IDS was given a couple of years and LOTO just isn't subject to the same pressure as PM. But I don't think there's a lot of mileage in saying "aah, bless her" and pointing to the L-plates.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607
    Sandpit said:

    Rick Scott eliminated in Senate leader race. He was Trump’s candidate.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1856742062378684787

    The anger below the line is off the scale. There is no compromise with these people.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209

    And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    PB.com isn't a Conservative campaigning site. It's no-one's job here to give Badenoch a free ride.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    Sandpit said:

    Rick Scott eliminated in Senate leader race. He was Trump’s candidate.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1856742062378684787

    The anger below the line is off the scale. There is no compromise with these people.
    They believe Trump is going to solve all their problems and that everything that blocks him is going to stop him from solving their problems.

    That's great from Trump but it's going to be a problem for the GOP going forward - because Trump isn't going to solve their problems and someone else is going to be taking the blame...
  • And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    PB.com isn't a Conservative campaigning site. It's no-one's job here to give Badenoch a free ride.
    Nor Starmer
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,183

    And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    David Cameron put Andy Coulson in Number 10 and put Justin Welby in Lambeth Palace.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209
    FPT..

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following Badenoch's question at PMQ:

    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    NEW: Downing Street confirms council tax rises will be capped at 5% again next year - roughly three times the rate of inflation. Paves the way for £110 increase on an average Band D bill

    That's a tax on working people. Before we get to an mayoral precept. Luckily our council has just announced it's latest £10m deficit to it's staff.

    That will be popular.
    Labour will be hoping that voters will blame local councils in the same way they're hoping that voters will blame their employers when there's pay freezes. It's not going to work, already I've noticed that non-political people I know are worried about the budget. My sister said yesterday that she didn't know how the government think they can put taxes for business up by such a huge number without job losses and price rises.
    It's like their "black hole" nonsense.

    Doesn't work because everyone knows Labour wanted to put up taxes anyway.
    That's your viewpoint.

    My viewpoint is that the Employee NI cuts (especially the April ones) were not justified and a sensible party would have kept themselves in a position where they could have reversed them...

    Edit and the election was in July because the public sector pay increases (all of which were just the recommended figures that should have been obvious for months) were no longer affordable due to the April NI cuts...
    The government was under no obligation to accept the recommended figures and, indeed, past ones have not. Tax cuts are affordable from a growing economy and, indeed, didn't even offset the fiscal drag tax rises that had already been baked in.

    The large increases in public sector pay and public spending were a choice.
    Not really - even up here at Treasury North they are finding recruitment difficult because the pay doesn't reflect the local market rate..

    Teachers likewise are leaving to earn more elsewhere and nurses are heading for agency work to the extent that the NHS are trying to solve the issue by banning the use of agencies...
    Nah. You are looking to justify the government's policy but it was still a choice.

    And what no one ever talks about is the very good public sector pension package which absolutely no one in the private sector gets.

    If you factor in that, and the other benefits, the package is very competitive.
    The public sector pension seems to be the only thing people ever talk about.
    I'm sure Casino's pension is better than most public sector workers.
    Such horseshit. My employer puts in just 6%. Fuck all. And that's only if I match it.

    I'm sick and tired of cosseted public sector workers crying woe is me over their amazing packages.

    Slash and burn them.
    But the pension you receive will be better than most public sector workers. I don’t understand why you are constantly jealous of people receiving less than you.
  • Andy_JS said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    She mixed up a couple of words. That was all I noticed.
    Her trouble there is that her line last week (and this to a degree) was accusing Starmer of reading prepared answers (a line that she read from prepared notes). Then she comes in with a script and delivers it badly.

    If she's going to set it up as a duel between a slow witted, inflexible PM and an agile, fast thinking LOTO, she does need to have the chops (I'm reminded a bit of the 2017 election - "strong and stable" is a great slogan only as long as you are).

    It's early days but does reinforce the concern amongst her MPs - that she's punchy but not all that smart.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,646

    Sandpit said:

    Rick Scott eliminated in Senate leader race. He was Trump’s candidate.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1856742062378684787

    The anger below the line is off the scale. There is no compromise with these people.
    The whole thing was a stitch-up by outgoing leader Mitch McConnell, to accelerate the timetable so that the new GOP Senators don’t get to vote, and then doing it by secret ballot rather than open votes as done previously.

    There’s been a concerted campaign in the last few days from Trump supporters in favour of Scott, they are saying this result is Trump 0-1 Swamp.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,209

    And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    PB.com isn't a Conservative campaigning site. It's no-one's job here to give Badenoch a free ride.
    Nor Starmer
    Starmer is definitely not getting a free ride here!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    It will be interesting to see if the Draghi report results in any changes to this state of affairs. It might determine whether we ever consider rejoining the EU.

    The Compliance Doom Loop

    https://www.siliconcontinent.com/p/the-compliance-doom-loop
    Europe is creating a new ruling class — but they don't make laws or deliver services. Instead, they check boxes and issue stamps of approval. These are the compliance officers who ensure other people follow rules. From ESG reporting to sustainability audits, from data protection to supply chain verification, checkers and verifiers have become a fast growing segment of the economy. European business is increasingly governed by a group of rule-enforcers that, rather than create economic activity, shrink it...

    … Consider this example. Spain does not have any frontier AI companies. But the country rushed to establish the first AI agency in Europe — the Spanish Agency for the Supervision of Artificial Intelligence (AESIA). The organisation will have a president, a director, two subdirectors, a secretary general and 10 departments. It includes offices with names such as the “Department of Instrumentation of Mechanisms for Trend Identification and Impact Assessment”, and the “Department of Awareness, Training, Dissemination, Promotion and Consciousness-raising”. Readers in the US are familiar with competitions between cities to host companies. In Spain, León and A Coruña fought over the decision of where to establish AESIA — the regulator for an industry that does not exist!..


    There are tentative signs, both in the UK, and in Europe, that (at least some) politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are beginning to realise this is economically unsustainable.

    Can they do anything significant to reverse it ?
  • The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,228
    edited November 13

    And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    PB.com isn't a Conservative campaigning site. It's no-one's job here to give Badenoch a free ride.
    Nor Starmer
    Starmer is definitely not getting a free ride here!
    Nor should he in view of his terrible start
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    edited November 13
    Driver said:

    Spot the difference in "don't know" between the four people who were PM and the two who weren't...

    Oh, and first.

    Indeed! How many of those polled even know who she is?
  • eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rick Scott eliminated in Senate leader race. He was Trump’s candidate.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1856742062378684787

    The anger below the line is off the scale. There is no compromise with these people.
    They believe Trump is going to solve all their problems and that everything that blocks him is going to stop him from solving their problems.

    That's great from Trump but it's going to be a problem for the GOP going forward - because Trump isn't going to solve their problems and someone else is going to be taking the blame...
    Having a scapegoat ready for Trump is probably for the best (for Trump), because even if he was good, he isn't going to solve everyone's problems. The fact that he is bad and isn't going to solve anyone's problems (except his own) is just a bonus catpoo where the blackberry should be.

    It will be an interesting historical question as to when was the last moment that the GOP could detach themselves from Trump with some dignity and careers intact, but I suspect it was a while ago. Now, the old adage about the disadvantage of riding a tiger face-eating leopard applies to them. Oh well.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    And meanwhile the wait for a YouGov VI goes on...
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,242

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
    And they'll believe it when Trump tells them he has taken the US out of recession.

    Supported by Twitter/X.
    Not if they’re worse off.
  • And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    PB.com isn't a Conservative campaigning site. It's no-one's job here to give Badenoch a free ride.
    Nor Starmer
    Starmer is definitely not getting a free ride here!
    Yeah this site is pretty hostile to Starmer and Labour overall. It's one of the reasons I come, otherwise I'd just here a lot of praise for him all day.
  • Andy_JS said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    She mixed up a couple of words. That was all I noticed.
    Seriously, who cares?
    Ultimately, 121 Conservative MPs care. That's enough to make it a political betting issue. They obviously aren't going to throw her under the bus tomorrow, but a LOTO needs to land punches even in a period when the wider public aren't paying much attention.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    FPT (sorry)

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following Badenoch's question at PMQ:

    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    NEW: Downing Street confirms council tax rises will be capped at 5% again next year - roughly three times the rate of inflation. Paves the way for £110 increase on an average Band D bill

    That's a tax on working people. Before we get to an mayoral precept. Luckily our council has just announced it's latest £10m deficit to it's staff.

    That will be popular.
    Labour will be hoping that voters will blame local councils in the same way they're hoping that voters will blame their employers when there's pay freezes. It's not going to work, already I've noticed that non-political people I know are worried about the budget. My sister said yesterday that she didn't know how the government think they can put taxes for business up by such a huge number without job losses and price rises.
    It's like their "black hole" nonsense.

    Doesn't work because everyone knows Labour wanted to put up taxes anyway.
    That's your viewpoint.

    My viewpoint is that the Employee NI cuts (especially the April ones) were not justified and a sensible party would have kept themselves in a position where they could have reversed them...

    Edit and the election was in July because the public sector pay increases (all of which were just the recommended figures that should have been obvious for months) were no longer affordable due to the April NI cuts...
    The government was under no obligation to accept the recommended figures and, indeed, past ones have not. Tax cuts are affordable from a growing economy and, indeed, didn't even offset the fiscal drag tax rises that had already been baked in.

    The large increases in public sector pay and public spending were a choice.
    Not really - even up here at Treasury North they are finding recruitment difficult because the pay doesn't reflect the local market rate..

    Teachers likewise are leaving to earn more elsewhere and nurses are heading for agency work to the extent that the NHS are trying to solve the issue by banning the use of agencies...
    Nah. You are looking to justify the government's policy but it was still a choice.

    And what no one ever talks about is the very good public sector pension package which absolutely no one in the private sector gets.

    If you factor in that, and the other benefits, the package is very competitive.
    The public sector pension seems to be the only thing people ever talk about.
    I'm sure Casino's pension is better than most public sector workers.
    Such horseshit. My employer puts in just 6%. Fuck all. And that's only if I match it.

    I'm sick and tired of cosseted public sector workers crying woe is me over their amazing packages.

    Slash and burn them.
    I'm at a loss as to who on here who argues the counterpoint to your argument has a public sector pension.

    Because the only person I can think of is Foxy and his argument is that he can't recruit nurses..
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,258
    Here's a fun story:


  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    FPT..

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following Badenoch's question at PMQ:

    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    NEW: Downing Street confirms council tax rises will be capped at 5% again next year - roughly three times the rate of inflation. Paves the way for £110 increase on an average Band D bill

    That's a tax on working people. Before we get to an mayoral precept. Luckily our council has just announced it's latest £10m deficit to it's staff.

    That will be popular.
    Labour will be hoping that voters will blame local councils in the same way they're hoping that voters will blame their employers when there's pay freezes. It's not going to work, already I've noticed that non-political people I know are worried about the budget. My sister said yesterday that she didn't know how the government think they can put taxes for business up by such a huge number without job losses and price rises.
    It's like their "black hole" nonsense.

    Doesn't work because everyone knows Labour wanted to put up taxes anyway.
    That's your viewpoint.

    My viewpoint is that the Employee NI cuts (especially the April ones) were not justified and a sensible party would have kept themselves in a position where they could have reversed them...

    Edit and the election was in July because the public sector pay increases (all of which were just the recommended figures that should have been obvious for months) were no longer affordable due to the April NI cuts...
    The government was under no obligation to accept the recommended figures and, indeed, past ones have not. Tax cuts are affordable from a growing economy and, indeed, didn't even offset the fiscal drag tax rises that had already been baked in.

    The large increases in public sector pay and public spending were a choice.
    Not really - even up here at Treasury North they are finding recruitment difficult because the pay doesn't reflect the local market rate..

    Teachers likewise are leaving to earn more elsewhere and nurses are heading for agency work to the extent that the NHS are trying to solve the issue by banning the use of agencies...
    Nah. You are looking to justify the government's policy but it was still a choice.

    And what no one ever talks about is the very good public sector pension package which absolutely no one in the private sector gets.

    If you factor in that, and the other benefits, the package is very competitive.
    The public sector pension seems to be the only thing people ever talk about.
    I'm sure Casino's pension is better than most public sector workers.
    Such horseshit. My employer puts in just 6%. Fuck all. And that's only if I match it.

    I'm sick and tired of cosseted public sector workers crying woe is me over their amazing packages.

    Slash and burn them.
    But the pension you receive will be better than most public sector workers. I don’t understand why you are constantly jealous of people receiving less than you.
    Er, no it won't.
  • I would pay public sector workers significantly more.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    I think to some extent there will be a rallying around her as the LOTO and the alternative but, yes, you are right: it isn't a given and her skill as a politician will determine how far it moves.

    She needs a brand and makeover advisor for a start, and coaching. I hope the Conservative Party can afford it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    That's old news (well I heard it earlier today) and the admin is a pre-pack, with the brand and 100 shops being bought by The Range.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,059

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Yes, they should enter a period of self-critical introspection just like the right wing media famously do with such heartfelt contrition when their side lose.
  • Foxy said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    Badenoch was all over the place with her six questions, a scattergun approach of attempted gotchas with no theme or coherent philosophy. She said she supported the Labour spending increases on the NHS, but not the taxes needed to pay it.

    I thought that she would be much better at PMQs than she is, as she is generally articulate.

    I don't think she will be as bad as Truss in terms of favourability, as she lacks real power. She can only trash the Conservative Party, not a whole country.

    Ed Davey was good today, just the right note of constructive opposition. He will make a good LOTO in 2029 if he plays his cards right.
    Gave six opportunities for clips of her asking questions and sneering Starmer looking unsympathetic to businesses and people who are to be hit by the budget. It worked. She will over time improve, Starmer won't.

    We don't need a constructive opposition. The opposition is there to oppose. ED is Starmer MKII. A back-up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515
    Nigelb said:

    It will be interesting to see if the Draghi report results in any changes to this state of affairs. It might determine whether we ever consider rejoining the EU.

    The Compliance Doom Loop

    https://www.siliconcontinent.com/p/the-compliance-doom-loop
    Europe is creating a new ruling class — but they don't make laws or deliver services. Instead, they check boxes and issue stamps of approval. These are the compliance officers who ensure other people follow rules. From ESG reporting to sustainability audits, from data protection to supply chain verification, checkers and verifiers have become a fast growing segment of the economy. European business is increasingly governed by a group of rule-enforcers that, rather than create economic activity, shrink it...

    … Consider this example. Spain does not have any frontier AI companies. But the country rushed to establish the first AI agency in Europe — the Spanish Agency for the Supervision of Artificial Intelligence (AESIA). The organisation will have a president, a director, two subdirectors, a secretary general and 10 departments. It includes offices with names such as the “Department of Instrumentation of Mechanisms for Trend Identification and Impact Assessment”, and the “Department of Awareness, Training, Dissemination, Promotion and Consciousness-raising”. Readers in the US are familiar with competitions between cities to host companies. In Spain, León and A Coruña fought over the decision of where to establish AESIA — the regulator for an industry that does not exist!..


    There are tentative signs, both in the UK, and in Europe, that (at least some) politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are beginning to realise this is economically unsustainable.

    Can they do anything significant to reverse it ?

    Regulating an industry that does not exist will mean perfect achievement in compliance to regulations and in every other category.

    What kind of stupid person would deprive a country of perfect regulation?

    See St Edward’s Hospital…
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,545
    Foxy said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    Badenoch was all over the place with her six questions, a scattergun approach of attempted gotchas with no theme or coherent philosophy. She said she supported the Labour spending increases on the NHS, but not the taxes needed to pay it.

    I thought that she would be much better at PMQs than she is, as she is generally articulate.

    I don't think she will be as bad as Truss in terms of favourability, as she lacks real power. She can only trash the Conservative Party, not a whole country.

    Ed Davey was good today, just the right note of constructive opposition. He will make a good LOTO in 2029 if he plays his cards right.
    Lol.

    In our hearts.
  • Nigelb said:

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
    I read the Guardian daily
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
    For the ordinary person, if prices have near doubled on some groceries, they've had a pay freeze, they see some lay-offs, and they feel much worse off then they might answer "yes" to that regardless of what the official stats say.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    I think to some extent there will be a rallying around her as the LOTO and the alternative but, yes, you are right: it isn't a given and her skill as a politician will determine how far it moves.

    She needs a brand and makeover advisor for a start, and coaching. I hope the Conservative Party can afford it.
    Given that they've gone from 340 to 120 MPs the short money is going to be rather reduced.

    She probably needs coaching but I don't know who is going to be able to pay for it...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
    For the ordinary person, if prices have near doubled on some groceries, they've had a pay freeze, they see some lay-offs, and they feel much worse off then they might answer "yes" to that regardless of what the official stats say.
    It's not a recession but you can see why people may feel it is.

    As with 1979 the recession is what occurs when you try to fix the inflation...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,861
    Republicans on Wednesday elected Senator John Thune of South Dakota, their No. 2 in the chamber, to serve as majority leader in the next Congress, choosing a G.O.P. institutionalist to replace Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Senate’s longest-serving leader.

    NY Times blog


    Not all going Trump's way then.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,674
    edited November 13
    Another victim of internet shopping one assumes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,545
    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    She also has zero policies and wants to do this airy fairy 'finding ourselves' renewal campaign that seems to mean diddly squat so far.

    Being LOTO starts immediately you get into the job. Jenrick was ready, Kemi clearly wasn't.

    She needs to get on the front foot fast.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452

    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    I think to some extent there will be a rallying around her as the LOTO and the alternative but, yes, you are right: it isn't a given and her skill as a politician will determine how far it moves.

    She needs a brand and makeover advisor for a start, and coaching. I hope the Conservative Party can afford it.
    I actually hope she does OK; a recovering Tory party is greatly preferable to Reform.
    I’d agree she’s an unknown. But she’s not yet shown much to give any confidence in her prospects.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    Foxy said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    Badenoch was all over the place with her six questions, a scattergun approach of attempted gotchas with no theme or coherent philosophy. She said she supported the Labour spending increases on the NHS, but not the taxes needed to pay it.

    I thought that she would be much better at PMQs than she is, as she is generally articulate.

    I don't think she will be as bad as Truss in terms of favourability, as she lacks real power. She can only trash the Conservative Party, not a whole country.

    Ed Davey was good today, just the right note of constructive opposition. He will make a good LOTO in 2029 if he plays his cards right.
    The only people maintaining the fantasy that Ed Davey will become LOTO is the Liberal Democrats. There is no appetite in the country for it.

    They were a convenient ejection mechanism in July 2024. Nothing more.

    If the country turns against this administration then they'll be seen as obstacle the other way and the tables will turn.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452

    Nigelb said:

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
    I read the Guardian daily
    Then you have me at a loss.
  • eek said:

    FPT (sorry)

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following Badenoch's question at PMQ:

    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    NEW: Downing Street confirms council tax rises will be capped at 5% again next year - roughly three times the rate of inflation. Paves the way for £110 increase on an average Band D bill

    That's a tax on working people. Before we get to an mayoral precept. Luckily our council has just announced it's latest £10m deficit to it's staff.

    That will be popular.
    Labour will be hoping that voters will blame local councils in the same way they're hoping that voters will blame their employers when there's pay freezes. It's not going to work, already I've noticed that non-political people I know are worried about the budget. My sister said yesterday that she didn't know how the government think they can put taxes for business up by such a huge number without job losses and price rises.
    It's like their "black hole" nonsense.

    Doesn't work because everyone knows Labour wanted to put up taxes anyway.
    That's your viewpoint.

    My viewpoint is that the Employee NI cuts (especially the April ones) were not justified and a sensible party would have kept themselves in a position where they could have reversed them...

    Edit and the election was in July because the public sector pay increases (all of which were just the recommended figures that should have been obvious for months) were no longer affordable due to the April NI cuts...
    The government was under no obligation to accept the recommended figures and, indeed, past ones have not. Tax cuts are affordable from a growing economy and, indeed, didn't even offset the fiscal drag tax rises that had already been baked in.

    The large increases in public sector pay and public spending were a choice.
    Not really - even up here at Treasury North they are finding recruitment difficult because the pay doesn't reflect the local market rate..

    Teachers likewise are leaving to earn more elsewhere and nurses are heading for agency work to the extent that the NHS are trying to solve the issue by banning the use of agencies...
    Nah. You are looking to justify the government's policy but it was still a choice.

    And what no one ever talks about is the very good public sector pension package which absolutely no one in the private sector gets.

    If you factor in that, and the other benefits, the package is very competitive.
    The public sector pension seems to be the only thing people ever talk about.
    I'm sure Casino's pension is better than most public sector workers.
    Such horseshit. My employer puts in just 6%. Fuck all. And that's only if I match it.

    I'm sick and tired of cosseted public sector workers crying woe is me over their amazing packages.

    Slash and burn them.
    I'm at a loss as to who on here who argues the counterpoint to your argument has a public sector pension.

    Because the only person I can think of is Foxy and his argument is that he can't recruit nurses..
    To be fair, I do.

    And I'm in the fortunate position of being better at earning money than spending it, so I'm personally quite relaxed about the package I get. (You would be much more likely to get me on the barracades by making my job less fun than by doing dodgy things with my salary and pension.) The trouble is, there aren't enough people like me.

    The real issue isn't the current staff saying "woe is me", though that's the visible bit. It's the staff who are needed, look at the totality of pay and conditions and say "stuff that, I'd rather do something else".
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    Andy_JS said:

    Another victim of internet shopping one assumes.
    They never really recovered from the Australians running it into the ground.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557
    edited November 13
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
    For the ordinary person, if prices have near doubled on some groceries, they've had a pay freeze, they see some lay-offs, and they feel much worse off then they might answer "yes" to that regardless of what the official stats say.
    It's not a recession but you can see why people may feel it is.

    As with 1979 the recession is what occurs when you try to fix the inflation...
    Good job the last administration did then.
  • The hard left are melting down but it seems like the centre left have accepted the result and are working to be better next time?
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
    I read the Guardian daily
    Then you have me at a loss.
    I do read across the political divide but draw the line at the express
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    eek said:

    FPT (sorry)

    eek said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Following Badenoch's question at PMQ:

    Jason Groves
    @JasonGroves1
    NEW: Downing Street confirms council tax rises will be capped at 5% again next year - roughly three times the rate of inflation. Paves the way for £110 increase on an average Band D bill

    That's a tax on working people. Before we get to an mayoral precept. Luckily our council has just announced it's latest £10m deficit to it's staff.

    That will be popular.
    Labour will be hoping that voters will blame local councils in the same way they're hoping that voters will blame their employers when there's pay freezes. It's not going to work, already I've noticed that non-political people I know are worried about the budget. My sister said yesterday that she didn't know how the government think they can put taxes for business up by such a huge number without job losses and price rises.
    It's like their "black hole" nonsense.

    Doesn't work because everyone knows Labour wanted to put up taxes anyway.
    That's your viewpoint.

    My viewpoint is that the Employee NI cuts (especially the April ones) were not justified and a sensible party would have kept themselves in a position where they could have reversed them...

    Edit and the election was in July because the public sector pay increases (all of which were just the recommended figures that should have been obvious for months) were no longer affordable due to the April NI cuts...
    The government was under no obligation to accept the recommended figures and, indeed, past ones have not. Tax cuts are affordable from a growing economy and, indeed, didn't even offset the fiscal drag tax rises that had already been baked in.

    The large increases in public sector pay and public spending were a choice.
    Not really - even up here at Treasury North they are finding recruitment difficult because the pay doesn't reflect the local market rate..

    Teachers likewise are leaving to earn more elsewhere and nurses are heading for agency work to the extent that the NHS are trying to solve the issue by banning the use of agencies...
    Nah. You are looking to justify the government's policy but it was still a choice.

    And what no one ever talks about is the very good public sector pension package which absolutely no one in the private sector gets.

    If you factor in that, and the other benefits, the package is very competitive.
    The public sector pension seems to be the only thing people ever talk about.
    I'm sure Casino's pension is better than most public sector workers.
    Such horseshit. My employer puts in just 6%. Fuck all. And that's only if I match it.

    I'm sick and tired of cosseted public sector workers crying woe is me over their amazing packages.

    Slash and burn them.
    I'm at a loss as to who on here who argues the counterpoint to your argument has a public sector pension.

    Because the only person I can think of is Foxy and his argument is that he can't recruit nurses..
    To be fair, I do.

    And I'm in the fortunate position of being better at earning money than spending it, so I'm personally quite relaxed about the package I get. (You would be much more likely to get me on the barracades by making my job less fun than by doing dodgy things with my salary and pension.) The trouble is, there aren't enough people like me.

    The real issue isn't the current staff saying "woe is me", though that's the visible bit. It's the staff who are needed, look at the totality of pay and conditions and say "stuff that, I'd rather do something else".
    Which is why I just quit.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,433
    Andy_JS said:

    Another victim of internet shopping one assumes.
    Homebase was destroyed when WesFarmers bought it and promptly decided that the correct time of year to sell Barbecue and other summer items was during the Australian Summer...

    They paid £340m in 2016, sacked the UK's senior management (and layers below). After losing £420m they then sold it to Hilco for £1 in 2018.. Hilco have now extracted every penny they can so they are binning it...

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607
    rcs1000 said:

    Here's a fun story:


    Russian TV have been showing that picture of Melania from her nude modelling days. It seems a pretty blatant warning to Trump given the kopromat material they're rumoured to hold over him.

    It's actually a little surprising. It betrays a certain insecurity on their part that Trump isn't going to simply cut off Ukraine to coerce them into a lopsided peace deal.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,557

    Nigelb said:

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
    I read the Guardian daily
    I'm so sorry.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,056
    edited November 13

    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    I think to some extent there will be a rallying around her as the LOTO and the alternative but, yes, you are right: it isn't a given and her skill as a politician will determine how far it moves.

    She needs a brand and makeover advisor for a start, and coaching. I hope the Conservative Party can afford it.
    Or the opposite might happen which is why I raise the spectre of IDS. He was ousted because Conservative MPs decided he was not up to it, not because Tony Blair did. And that was on the evidence of PMQs. At the ballot box, IDS performed quite well, and better than Michael Howard who in the official version somehow rescued the party.

    Bluntly, Kemi's enemies sit behind her.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,607

    I would pay public sector workers significantly more.

    And what taxes would you increase to pay for that?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,452
    edited November 13

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Getting straight back into the saddle, Trump tells GOP lawmakers he won the PV by 7.1 million votes.

    He managed to convince the US that it’s in a recession.
    How will it go, should he actually put it in one ?

    "Do you believe the US is currently in a recession?"

    Yes: 54%
    No: 30%

    Leger / Nov 3, 2024 / n=1044 / Online

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1856368890940432749
    For the ordinary person, if prices have near doubled on some groceries, they've had a pay freeze, they see some lay-offs, and they feel much worse off then they might answer "yes" to that regardless of what the official stats say.
    I get that.

    Hence my question about how they might perceive a genuine recession.
    Which is a distinct possibility, depending on Trump’s choices over the next few months.
    I’m not assuming one, but if he does what he promised (not a given, obvs.) on tariffs and deportations, it’s pretty likely.

    (“What the official stats say”, btw, is quite accurate.)
  • Nigelb said:

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
    I read the Guardian daily
    I'm so sorry.
    Why - it helps to see the other sides views
  • I would pay public sector workers significantly more.

    And what taxes would you increase to pay for that?
    Mine.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,449

    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    She also has zero policies and wants to do this airy fairy 'finding ourselves' renewal campaign that seems to mean diddly squat so far.

    Being LOTO starts immediately you get into the job. Jenrick was ready, Kemi clearly wasn't.

    She needs to get on the front foot fast.
    Nah, Jenrick would just be spitting bile and oozing snake oil.

    Badenoch is just a bit, well not very good at PMQs yet. Jenrick wasn't very good at humanity.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    Be leader of the Tories?
  • Well this made me sit back and read twice. 26 year old man with 229 points, still holds a valid licence.

    Did he manage to drive through new 20 mile an hour limits and trigger every camera?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8yq063m96o
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515

    rcs1000 said:

    Here's a fun story:


    Russian TV have been showing that picture of Melania from her nude modelling days. It seems a pretty blatant warning to Trump given the kopromat material they're rumoured to hold over him.

    It's actually a little surprising. It betrays a certain insecurity on their part that Trump isn't going to simply cut off Ukraine to coerce them into a lopsided peace deal.
    Maybe they’ve read a copy of The Art of The Deal and realised that Trump thinks screwing *everyone* in a negotiation is how it’s done.

  • Well this made me sit back and read twice. 26 year old man with 229 points, still holds a valid licence.

    Did he manage to drive through new 20 mile an hour limits and trigger every camera?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce8yq063m96o

    Not sure the Insurers would be impressed
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,545

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Let's not forget that one of the few speeches over the decades from Lord Ali in the HoL was in support of assisted dying. No surprise this is trying to be rushed through without much scrutiny or debate.

    On PMQs, Badenoch did fine. She is still clunky, but she is making sure that Starmer is personally wrapping himself to the budget and the consequences of it.

    It isn't popular, the implications for many will be dire and he is appearing churlish, condescending and rude to those who are questioning it.

    I think PMQs is an exercise of getting the PM to say clipable comments that the Tories can rely on right wing content creators to pick apart on social media. Starmer is falling for it.
    Starmer is prissy and rude and Kemi still isn't very confident. She needs to work on that.

    There's a standard line she should use every time a Labour drone or the PM try and ask her a question: "if the honorable member wants me to answer the questions I'm very happy to cross the floor and take his place as PM! If not, the PM will need to answer mine..."

    She needs to say this every time.
    Said of every opposition leader I can recall.
    I wonder if Kemi is quite isolated within the party. She hasn't promoted anyone in the Jenrick/Hayes wing except RJ hinself to a fairly junior role, so they're not going to be falling over themselves to help. At the same time, she can't really embrace the soggy element or she will completely lose all credibility in her reform/learn from the election agenda. Who is coaching her for PMQs?
    Well at least she wasn't embarrassed by Starmer unlike when he put Farage back in his box today
    I haven't seen it - I suspect recollections may vary.
    So which tribe are you now, Lucky? We have established you are not Thatcherite, as most Conservatives aren’t these days, as Lady Thatchers instincts would 100% have been to protect household incomes during historic credit crunch.
    FPT - I am not really sure what your allusion to the credit crunch means. I am a strong believer in the power of the free market to create prosperity. I believe in Adam Smith's very simple dictum of 'peace, easy taxes, and tolerable administration of justice' being the three pillars needed for a state to grow wealthy. We have none of those currently.

    That said, like Smith himself, I believe that the Government must intervene at times to prevent monopolies and curtail the power of corporations. I would add that when other countries are pursuing protectionist policies, we must do the same by necessity, or see our economy bled dry at the expense of theirs.

    I will support anyone who moves in this direction.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,176

    Nigelb said:

    It will be interesting to see if the Draghi report results in any changes to this state of affairs. It might determine whether we ever consider rejoining the EU.

    The Compliance Doom Loop

    https://www.siliconcontinent.com/p/the-compliance-doom-loop
    Europe is creating a new ruling class — but they don't make laws or deliver services. Instead, they check boxes and issue stamps of approval. These are the compliance officers who ensure other people follow rules. From ESG reporting to sustainability audits, from data protection to supply chain verification, checkers and verifiers have become a fast growing segment of the economy. European business is increasingly governed by a group of rule-enforcers that, rather than create economic activity, shrink it...

    … Consider this example. Spain does not have any frontier AI companies. But the country rushed to establish the first AI agency in Europe — the Spanish Agency for the Supervision of Artificial Intelligence (AESIA). The organisation will have a president, a director, two subdirectors, a secretary general and 10 departments. It includes offices with names such as the “Department of Instrumentation of Mechanisms for Trend Identification and Impact Assessment”, and the “Department of Awareness, Training, Dissemination, Promotion and Consciousness-raising”. Readers in the US are familiar with competitions between cities to host companies. In Spain, León and A Coruña fought over the decision of where to establish AESIA — the regulator for an industry that does not exist!..


    There are tentative signs, both in the UK, and in Europe, that (at least some) politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are beginning to realise this is economically unsustainable.

    Can they do anything significant to reverse it ?

    Regulating an industry that does not exist will mean perfect achievement in compliance to regulations and in every other category.

    What kind of stupid person would deprive a country of perfect regulation?

    See St Edward’s Hospital…
    https://murraycampbell.net/2019/05/21/avoiding-the-st-edward-hospital-syndrome/
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,877
    Nigelb said:

    It will be interesting to see if the Draghi report results in any changes to this state of affairs. It might determine whether we ever consider rejoining the EU.

    The Compliance Doom Loop

    https://www.siliconcontinent.com/p/the-compliance-doom-loop
    Europe is creating a new ruling class — but they don't make laws or deliver services. Instead, they check boxes and issue stamps of approval. These are the compliance officers who ensure other people follow rules. From ESG reporting to sustainability audits, from data protection to supply chain verification, checkers and verifiers have become a fast growing segment of the economy. European business is increasingly governed by a group of rule-enforcers that, rather than create economic activity, shrink it...

    … Consider this example. Spain does not have any frontier AI companies. But the country rushed to establish the first AI agency in Europe — the Spanish Agency for the Supervision of Artificial Intelligence (AESIA). The organisation will have a president, a director, two subdirectors, a secretary general and 10 departments. It includes offices with names such as the “Department of Instrumentation of Mechanisms for Trend Identification and Impact Assessment”, and the “Department of Awareness, Training, Dissemination, Promotion and Consciousness-raising”. Readers in the US are familiar with competitions between cities to host companies. In Spain, León and A Coruña fought over the decision of where to establish AESIA — the regulator for an industry that does not exist!..


    There are tentative signs, both in the UK, and in Europe, that (at least some) politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are beginning to realise this is economically unsustainable.

    Can they do anything significant to reverse it ?

    The ESG/DEI arbitrage with the US is going to get bigger now that Trump is back. Expect more companies to shift to a US listing where shareholders want companies to make money rather than preach to their customers about their latest ESG or DEI shit.

    The government must lead on this and ease pressure on companies for ESG and DEI reporting and the chancellor needs to stand behind companies that choose profit ahead of ESG/DEI when the activists start pressuring shareholders and board members.

    If we don't then we will lose primary listings for BP and Shell for sure. GSK and AZ will look to follow as well. I'd also push through regulations for pension funds that basically makes it impossible for them to use ESG/DEI as investment criteria unless the pension holder has specifically given instructions to the find that they would like that criteria included.

    It's time to get companies and shareholders to put profits first not stuff that hurts company performance and investment.

    On a side note the above was one of my primary motivators for leaving the EU. Their solution to everything is more regulation and more oversight by officials who don't know anything. If the UK was in the EU right now our AI industry would be withering on the vine as they struggle to meet EU data and AI regulations. It's a huge growth industry for is, RunwayAI are opening up their first UK presence and are expected to have about 100 people by the end of next year at an average salary of over £100k per person. There's no industry where the EU doesn't think it knows better than the people who create the jobs and value.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515

    Nigelb said:

    The Guardian melt down over Trump, with other fellow lefties, is predictable but rather than berating Trump shouldn't their question be why and why they were so out of touch with public opinion

    Were they “so out if touch” ?

    Is it a “meltdown” ?

    I think you’re resorting to hyperbole about a publication I suspect you don’t regularly read.
    I read the Guardian daily
    I'm so sorry.
    It’s immensely good fun.

    I remember being about 12, when I asked my father about an opinion piece, there.

    In it the writer lambasted the ghastly oiks with East End accents and too much money overrunning his beloved public school. Upstarts empowered by Thatcher etc.

    I asked “Shouldn’t he be happy that poor people are getting rich?”
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,670
    I doubt if it would make much difference who the leader is at this moment. The low polling and high DKs says exactly two things. people are paying no serious attention to the Tories at the moment because there is no reason to do so, and a multitude of reasons for thinking about something else.

    And to put the seal on it, people are alert to the genuineness of the issue of tax, spend and borrow and the quality of services they value. The Tories have said nothing useful about this, partly because it is very difficult to think what that could possibly be.
  • However comedically awful Badenoch has been, it could have been worse.

    Imagine what JENRICK would have been like...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,877

    rcs1000 said:

    Here's a fun story:


    Russian TV have been showing that picture of Melania from her nude modelling days. It seems a pretty blatant warning to Trump given the kopromat material they're rumoured to hold over him.

    It's actually a little surprising. It betrays a certain insecurity on their part that Trump isn't going to simply cut off Ukraine to coerce them into a lopsided peace deal.
    I think they're realising he's not up for re-election so whatever compromising material they've got will make precisely zero difference. Look at Trump's national security advisor, he's an ultra-hawk who loathes Putin. I'm quite positive that Trump won't force Ukraine into a suboptimal deal but I do think Crimea is gone forever, potentially in return for EU accession and a promise on NATO once they've joined the EU.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,375
    tlg86 said:

    And, so, we are due for years of tireless attacks on yet another Conservative leader doing the socialists work for them just because she isn't David Cameron reincarnated.

    Pathetic.

    David Cameron put Andy Coulson in Number 10 and put Justin Welby in Lambeth Palace.
    sums him up perfectly
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,545

    maxh said:

    On topic, Badenoch needs to get to where Theresa May was.

    She can tolerate 35-40% of voters disliking her but she needs to up the positives from the low 20s to the mid 40s - converting all those don't knows.

    It's do'able; it means she needs to tell better stories about herself and connect with the public.

    Agreed, she's an unknown to most at the moment.

    But, given the don't knows will be a disparate, mostly grumpy bunch, it would take a very skilled politician to move them all into the positive camp - by default as she becomes more known she will make as many enemies as friends. To escape this she will need political skills that she hasn't yet shown.
    She also has zero policies and wants to do this airy fairy 'finding ourselves' renewal campaign that seems to mean diddly squat so far.

    Being LOTO starts immediately you get into the job. Jenrick was ready, Kemi clearly wasn't.

    She needs to get on the front foot fast.
    Nah, Jenrick would just be spitting bile and oozing snake oil.

    Badenoch is just a bit, well not very good at PMQs yet. Jenrick wasn't very good at humanity.
    None of that is an argument, just a collection of your own facile value judgements and opinions.
  • "My family's been on this land for 375 years. I want to pass this down to my boys... you're taking that away from me... shame on you"

    Welsh farmer Gareth Wyn Jones challenges Culture Secretary Lisa Nandy on #PoliticsLive over inheritance tax changes

    https://x.com/BBCPolitics/status/1856758688725225676

    Pay tax?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Andy_JS said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    She mixed up a couple of words. That was all I noticed.
    Seriously, who cares?
    Ultimately, 121 Conservative MPs care. That's enough to make it a political betting issue. They obviously aren't going to throw her under the bus tomorrow, but a LOTO needs to land punches even in a period when the wider public aren't paying much attention.
    TBF, she was much criticised for her choice of questions last Wednesday - but people were still talking about it at the weekend.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,515
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    It will be interesting to see if the Draghi report results in any changes to this state of affairs. It might determine whether we ever consider rejoining the EU.

    The Compliance Doom Loop

    https://www.siliconcontinent.com/p/the-compliance-doom-loop
    Europe is creating a new ruling class — but they don't make laws or deliver services. Instead, they check boxes and issue stamps of approval. These are the compliance officers who ensure other people follow rules. From ESG reporting to sustainability audits, from data protection to supply chain verification, checkers and verifiers have become a fast growing segment of the economy. European business is increasingly governed by a group of rule-enforcers that, rather than create economic activity, shrink it...

    … Consider this example. Spain does not have any frontier AI companies. But the country rushed to establish the first AI agency in Europe — the Spanish Agency for the Supervision of Artificial Intelligence (AESIA). The organisation will have a president, a director, two subdirectors, a secretary general and 10 departments. It includes offices with names such as the “Department of Instrumentation of Mechanisms for Trend Identification and Impact Assessment”, and the “Department of Awareness, Training, Dissemination, Promotion and Consciousness-raising”. Readers in the US are familiar with competitions between cities to host companies. In Spain, León and A Coruña fought over the decision of where to establish AESIA — the regulator for an industry that does not exist!..


    There are tentative signs, both in the UK, and in Europe, that (at least some) politicians on both sides of the political spectrum are beginning to realise this is economically unsustainable.

    Can they do anything significant to reverse it ?

    Regulating an industry that does not exist will mean perfect achievement in compliance to regulations and in every other category.

    What kind of stupid person would deprive a country of perfect regulation?

    See St Edward’s Hospital…
    https://murraycampbell.net/2019/05/21/avoiding-the-st-edward-hospital-syndrome/
    Perfect comment on the Church Of England, as well, really.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Foxy said:

    What exactly did Badenoch do wrong today?

    Badenoch was all over the place with her six questions, a scattergun approach of attempted gotchas with no theme or coherent philosophy. She said she supported the Labour spending increases on the NHS, but not the taxes needed to pay it.

    I thought that she would be much better at PMQs than she is, as she is generally articulate.

    I don't think she will be as bad as Truss in terms of favourability, as she lacks real power. She can only trash the Conservative Party, not a whole country.

    Ed Davey was good today, just the right note of constructive opposition. He will make a good LOTO in 2029 if he plays his cards right.
    The only people maintaining the fantasy that Ed Davey will become LOTO is the Liberal Democrats. There is no appetite in the country for it.

    They were a convenient ejection mechanism in July 2024. Nothing more.

    If the country turns against this administration then they'll be seen as obstacle the other way and the tables will turn.
    Or, if the Tories haven't sorted themselves out at that point, it's Farage who's next in line, not Davey.
  • Bit unexpected, well kept secret:


    Press Gazette
    @pressgazette

    Exclusive: Paul Staines steps down as @GuidoFawkes editor,
    @RossKempsell becomes publisher
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 482
    KB was a hot mess in PMQs today.... dear me.
This discussion has been closed.