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Ayrshire hotelier remains the favourite to win the American presidency – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,127
edited October 23 in General
imageAyrshire hotelier remains the favourite to win the American presidency – politicalbetting.com

I still think Harris remains value.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    edited October 23
    Well for the next 25 minutes anyway!

    (Assuming Harris has something for her news conference at 6)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,452
    Drug-poisoning deaths in England and Wales have hit the highest level in 30 years, fuelled by a 30% rise in fatalities involving cocaine.

    The highest rate of drug deaths is still among men in “Generation X”, particularly those aged 40-49, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

    Cocaine deaths were nearly 10 times higher in 2023 than a decade earlier, claiming more than 1,100 lives.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5l4nknew0o
  • Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    DavidL said:

    Well for the next 25 minutes anyway!

    (Assuming Harris has something for her news conference at 6)

    It's time to bring out the October Surprise

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
  • Let's hope note. However if he does the world will continue to function! Harris for the win! If not Trump may not complete the four year term or if he does make two years he will have the mid terms to deal with. Things are going well at that point he is sitting pretty or if he looses either the house or the Senate which will slows things down for him.
  • Let's hope note. However if he does the world will continue to function! Harris for the win! If not Trump may not complete the four year term or if he does make two years he will have the mid terms to deal with. Things are going well at that point he is sitting pretty or if he looses either the house or the Senate which will slows things down for him.

    Let's hope not!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    https://x.com/ppollingnumbers/status/1849124104156176874

    General election poll

    🔴 Trump 51% (+2)
    🔵 Harris 49%

    Last poll - 🔵 Harris +2

    HarrisX #C - 1244 LV - 10/22
  • Drug-poisoning deaths in England and Wales have hit the highest level in 30 years, fuelled by a 30% rise in fatalities involving cocaine.

    The highest rate of drug deaths is still among men in “Generation X”, particularly those aged 40-49, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

    Cocaine deaths were nearly 10 times higher in 2023 than a decade earlier, claiming more than 1,100 lives.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5l4nknew0o

    That's not good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    60/40 seems over the top given it's neck and neck and dependent on margin of error in half a dozen states, though I too would give Trump the edge.

    May the punters be wrong on this.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    Haven’t they also removed the minimum turnout requirement as well ?

    The Unions have to get something for their investment in labour. A nice return on their investment.

    In spite of their whining I suspect they will be happy, especially the public sector unions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268
    edited October 23
    It looks close, currently polls suggest the closest US presidential election since 2000.

    I think Trump will win Arizona and increasingly it looks like he will win Michigan and Nevada too. Harris should win Wisconsin with Pennsylvania and Georgia or North Carolina deciding it in my view.

    Trump also has his best chance of winning the national popular vote yet. Nationally Harris is polling worse than Biden and slightly worse than or not much better than Hillary was and Trump at least as well as he did in 2016 and 2020 and in some polls like Harris better
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,452
    edited October 23
    Bazball eat your heart out....

    Zimbabwe have set a new world record for the highest score in men's T20 international cricket, posting 344-4 against The Gambia in Nairobi, Kenya.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    This from Chachi from Happy Days made me chuckle.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    edited October 23
    Apparently the Harris conference is to address Kelly’s remarks about Trump and Hitlers generals .

    So nothing major when it comes to Trump ! I mean this is pretty mundane given some of the stuff he says !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,452
    edited October 23

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    The different y scale isn't ideal for comparison. Was it made by a Lib Dem?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    Further reward for Labour's paymasters after their election win
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Drug-poisoning deaths in England and Wales have hit the highest level in 30 years, fuelled by a 30% rise in fatalities involving cocaine.

    The highest rate of drug deaths is still among men in “Generation X”, particularly those aged 40-49, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

    Cocaine deaths were nearly 10 times higher in 2023 than a decade earlier, claiming more than 1,100 lives.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5l4nknew0o

    Although Argentina, he was a Brit, Rock star Liam Payne had something called Pink Cocaine in his system.

    Apparently it’s a mix of various different drugs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    The different y scale isn't ideal for comparison. Was it made by a Lib Dem?
    Different electorate; different pollster assumptions, too.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    Ugh. When graphs go bad.

    I recognise some big differences compared to 2020, but if you want to compare the polling you really ought to make sure they're on the same scale of axes.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    edited October 23

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    The different y scale isn't ideal for comparison. Was it made by a Lib Dem?
    True, they're made by 538:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2020/national/

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

    The reason for the different scale was presumabely to show the third-party candidate, but that's irrelevant now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    If there is a whale manipulating the odds, then it’s an excellent opportunity for anyone betting on Harris.
    Unless she loses, of course.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    nico679 said:

    Apparently the Harris conference is to address Kelly’s remarks about Trump and Hitlers generals .

    So nothing major when it comes to Trump ! I mean this is pretty mundane given some of the stuff he says !

    All seems a little desperate. Can she not get onto policy ? She’s a far better proposition when it comes to stuff like the economy and trade.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    The different y scale isn't ideal for comparison. Was it made by a Lib Dem?
    Quite clever though. Trump: winning here!
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,678
    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Yeah. We don't know. However, after a lot of flailing, Trump has finally found an effective attack-line on Harris and she's failed to articulate an effective critique, set of solutions and answer to why she should be the one to carry them out. By contrast, Trump has. That they're built on a pack of lies isn't the point; the point is whether enough people in the right places believe them. Plus, he'll cheat wherever possible.

    If the odds are 60-40 for Trump, I'd make him the marginal value.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Or, in the words of the great Kenny Dalgleish, "Maybe's Aye, maybe's naw."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,166
    "The authorities are inept sheriffs of social media
    Politicians, the police and the judiciary should stop trying to control a landscape they do not understand

    Michael Reiners

    From July 30th to August 7th, the UK experienced social unrest in over 30 locations. In response, authorities launched a campaign of doxxing, prosecution, and imprisonment for those expressing support online. One such case involved Lee Dunn, who posted three images of what were clearly supposed to be illegal Islamic migrants with variants of the caption “coming to a town near you”. Mr Dunn was handed a 12 week custodial sentence, despite simply describing the government’s guidance (since 2021) on refugee resettlement, which can be found here at page 8.

    In a criminal law context, there should be a clear distinction between words and actions, however, recent prosecutions reveal that, in Britain, this distinction has collapsed. To all reasonable people it is self-evident that speech on social media, aimed at no specific individual, is less serious than real, measurable criminal acts taken against people or property. Why then, has physical violence, arson and riot been given parity in criminal law with words posted online, and, how could this possibly be happening in England?"

    https://thecritic.co.uk/the-authorities-are-inept-sheriffs-of-social-media/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Too late to post this on topic, but still.

    Nebraska Senate Polling:

    Osborn (I): 48%
    Fischer (R): 46%

    Change Research / Oct 21, 2024 / n=815

    (Osborn Internal)

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1849091354225225985

    There are about 1.25m registered voters in Nebraska.
    Almost half of them are Democrats and Independents.

    Maybe not quite enough ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    They were wrong in 2020.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268
    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    On the same error as 2020 compared to the national vote average graph, Trump would win the popular vote with 47.7% to 46% for Harris.

    Though yes if pollsters have corrected for their error last time it remains neck and neck and if overcorrected Harris is probably favourite
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,575
    Taz said:

    This from Chachi from Happy Days made me chuckle.

    Link?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    Taz said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently the Harris conference is to address Kelly’s remarks about Trump and Hitlers generals .

    So nothing major when it comes to Trump ! I mean this is pretty mundane given some of the stuff he says !

    All seems a little desperate. Can she not get onto policy ? She’s a far better proposition when it comes to stuff like the economy and trade.
    She has some good policies but unfortunately the public don’t seem all that interested . It’s really come down to an election on who Americans fear the most .

    I think the presser today was just really to try and get some more traction to Kelly’s remarks . Those that like Trump will say Kelly lied , but for those who aren’t Trump fans it does sound like something he’d say ,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Taz said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently the Harris conference is to address Kelly’s remarks about Trump and Hitlers generals .

    So nothing major when it comes to Trump ! I mean this is pretty mundane given some of the stuff he says !

    All seems a little desperate. Can she not get onto policy ? She’s a far better proposition when it comes to stuff like the economy and trade.
    She could far more effectively make the argument that across the board tariffs, a la McKinley, which is what Trump is enthusiastically advocating, is a way to massively shift the tax burden from the rich to the middle class.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 654

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Yeah. We don't know. However, after a lot of flailing, Trump has finally found an effective attack-line on Harris and she's failed to articulate an effective critique, set of solutions and answer to why she should be the one to carry them out. By contrast, Trump has. That they're built on a pack of lies isn't the point; the point is whether enough people in the right places believe them. Plus, he'll cheat wherever possible.

    If the odds are 60-40 for Trump, I'd make him the marginal value.
    The obvious disadvantage of Harris as a candidate is that once the novelty wears off then everyone will remember that she is part of the Biden administration. The race has settled back into the groove it would have had with Biden as the candidate minus the 'too old' dynamic. There isn't much that Harris can do about this as to deny everything the Biden administration has done would make her look ridiculous.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,452
    edited October 23
    Taz said:

    Drug-poisoning deaths in England and Wales have hit the highest level in 30 years, fuelled by a 30% rise in fatalities involving cocaine.

    The highest rate of drug deaths is still among men in “Generation X”, particularly those aged 40-49, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.

    Cocaine deaths were nearly 10 times higher in 2023 than a decade earlier, claiming more than 1,100 lives.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5l4nknew0o

    Although Argentina, he was a Brit, Rock star Liam Payne had something called Pink Cocaine in his system.

    Apparently it’s a mix of various different drugs.
    That stuff doesn't even necessarily contain coke. Its basically a blend of all sorts of drugs originating in South America, but seems to be now shovel in whatever we shit we have left over and add pink food colouring.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Also note.

    Support for providing a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who came here as children and have not committed a crime:

    Support: 69%
    Oppose: 21%

    YouGov / Oct 22, 2024 / n=1615

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1849119692557848782

    Something the GOP has repeatedly vetoed in Congress.
    While celebrating former illegal immigrant Musk.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,452
    Geoff Capes has died.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Stereodog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Yeah. We don't know. However, after a lot of flailing, Trump has finally found an effective attack-line on Harris and she's failed to articulate an effective critique, set of solutions and answer to why she should be the one to carry them out. By contrast, Trump has. That they're built on a pack of lies isn't the point; the point is whether enough people in the right places believe them. Plus, he'll cheat wherever possible.

    If the odds are 60-40 for Trump, I'd make him the marginal value.
    The obvious disadvantage of Harris as a candidate is that once the novelty wears off then everyone will remember that she is part of the Biden administration. The race has settled back into the groove it would have had with Biden as the candidate minus the 'too old' dynamic. There isn't much that Harris can do about this as to deny everything the Biden administration has done would make her look ridiculous.
    Overall, the administration has a very good record.
    She doesn’t have to run away from it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,678
    Stereodog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Yeah. We don't know. However, after a lot of flailing, Trump has finally found an effective attack-line on Harris and she's failed to articulate an effective critique, set of solutions and answer to why she should be the one to carry them out. By contrast, Trump has. That they're built on a pack of lies isn't the point; the point is whether enough people in the right places believe them. Plus, he'll cheat wherever possible.

    If the odds are 60-40 for Trump, I'd make him the marginal value.
    The obvious disadvantage of Harris as a candidate is that once the novelty wears off then everyone will remember that she is part of the Biden administration. The race has settled back into the groove it would have had with Biden as the candidate minus the 'too old' dynamic. There isn't much that Harris can do about this as to deny everything the Biden administration has done would make her look ridiculous.
    The Biden administration has huge achievements she should be shouting about. It's got some failures too but the American economy is going well, despite her / his inheritance from Trump. But she's made nothing of either those successes or Trump's previous failures (which in no small part led to the inflation Trump is now pinning on her).
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Taz said:

    This from Chachi from Happy Days made me chuckle.

    Link?
    Ruddy dope I am !

    https://x.com/scottbaio/status/1848681845744976218?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    nico679 said:

    Taz said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently the Harris conference is to address Kelly’s remarks about Trump and Hitlers generals .

    So nothing major when it comes to Trump ! I mean this is pretty mundane given some of the stuff he says !

    All seems a little desperate. Can she not get onto policy ? She’s a far better proposition when it comes to stuff like the economy and trade.
    She has some good policies but unfortunately the public don’t seem all that interested . It’s really come down to an election on who Americans fear the most .

    I think the presser today was just really to try and get some more traction to Kelly’s remarks . Those that like Trump will say Kelly lied , but for those who aren’t Trump fans it does sound like something he’d say ,
    But is it likely to shift the dial at all ? I’d be surprised if it did.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    kle4 said:

    60/40 seems over the top given it's neck and neck and dependent on margin of error in half a dozen states, though I too would give Trump the edge.

    May the punters be wrong on this.

    It’s been said very rich Trump backers could be shaping the Betting Markets in Trumps favour with their money. If so, what is in it for the Trump Camp and those wealthy backers throwing their money at this, and bringing his price in? No one looks at Betting Market in the same way as they would polls, or poll of polls, do they?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    kinabalu said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    They were wrong in 2020.
    As has already been said upthread with far more nuance and thought. 👍
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Stereodog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Yeah. We don't know. However, after a lot of flailing, Trump has finally found an effective attack-line on Harris and she's failed to articulate an effective critique, set of solutions and answer to why she should be the one to carry them out. By contrast, Trump has. That they're built on a pack of lies isn't the point; the point is whether enough people in the right places believe them. Plus, he'll cheat wherever possible.

    If the odds are 60-40 for Trump, I'd make him the marginal value.
    The obvious disadvantage of Harris as a candidate is that once the novelty wears off then everyone will remember that she is part of the Biden administration. The race has settled back into the groove it would have had with Biden as the candidate minus the 'too old' dynamic. There isn't much that Harris can do about this as to deny everything the Biden administration has done would make her look ridiculous.
    The Biden administration has huge achievements she should be shouting about. It's got some failures too but the American economy is going well, despite her / his inheritance from Trump. But she's made nothing of either those successes or Trump's previous failures (which in no small part led to the inflation Trump is now pinning on her).
    I was trying to work out whether Harris was unique in being an acting VP running to succeed an incumbent one term president. I think she perhaps is. (Hard to phrase the right search)

    If so then she is facing some unique challenges, and I wonder to what degree that might handicap her campaign. Also if so then perhaps we'll see the constraints disregarded a little in the upcoming few days.

    I'm obviously just an observer in this, but bloody hell America don't vote for the bloated orange snake-oil salesman! (I'm amazed anyone could vote for him)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Taz said:
    Oh, sort of end of an era. Spookily I was explaining who Geoff Capes was yesterday to a Polish born colleague. First time I’d mentioned his name in years.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    edited October 23
    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    I was speaking to a friend today who said it is quite remarkable how many of his friends and colleagues who have come out against Starmer, having voted for him

    He said the disillusionment with the government is widespread in his circles
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited October 23
    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    It could also be Trump is a lot more popular nationally now in places it won’t impact the college. He could be a lot more popular in New York, and California, but not nearly enough to carry the state.

    It would make the popular vote very tight, as HY says maybe even a Trump win, yet still deal Trump hefty college defeat as the battleground States narrowly go to Kam one by one.

    If I’m right in “more salutes where you don’t really need them” theory, it makes the popular vote polls this time round very misleading to picking the winner based on PV history.

    I think Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and North Carolina is where it’s at. One candidate could win all four - all be it after days of counting - and be comfortable in the college, in spite of the popular vote.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,678
    Omnium said:

    Stereodog said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    Yeah. We don't know. However, after a lot of flailing, Trump has finally found an effective attack-line on Harris and she's failed to articulate an effective critique, set of solutions and answer to why she should be the one to carry them out. By contrast, Trump has. That they're built on a pack of lies isn't the point; the point is whether enough people in the right places believe them. Plus, he'll cheat wherever possible.

    If the odds are 60-40 for Trump, I'd make him the marginal value.
    The obvious disadvantage of Harris as a candidate is that once the novelty wears off then everyone will remember that she is part of the Biden administration. The race has settled back into the groove it would have had with Biden as the candidate minus the 'too old' dynamic. There isn't much that Harris can do about this as to deny everything the Biden administration has done would make her look ridiculous.
    The Biden administration has huge achievements she should be shouting about. It's got some failures too but the American economy is going well, despite her / his inheritance from Trump. But she's made nothing of either those successes or Trump's previous failures (which in no small part led to the inflation Trump is now pinning on her).
    I was trying to work out whether Harris was unique in being an acting VP running to succeed an incumbent one term president. I think she perhaps is. (Hard to phrase the right search)

    If so then she is facing some unique challenges, and I wonder to what degree that might handicap her campaign. Also if so then perhaps we'll see the constraints disregarded a little in the upcoming few days.

    I'm obviously just an observer in this, but bloody hell America don't vote for the bloated orange snake-oil salesman! (I'm amazed anyone could vote for him)
    She is unique in that respect but then there've been very few one-term presidents who've stood down out of choice. I'm not sure the difference between a single-termer and a two-termer is all that significant here though.

    Technically, Jefferson was the incumbent VP in 1801 running to succeed an incumbent one-termer but the circumstances are so different there we can only really start post-12th Amendment.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Nigelb said:

    If there is a whale manipulating the odds, then it’s an excellent opportunity for anyone betting on Harris.
    Unless she loses, of course.

    Why not wait til she has won and back her at 1.1-1.2?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    Labour had a good first couple of weeks I thought. The big event is clearly the budget, and always has been. Reeves has been preparing this for years, and Starmer has been backing Reeves at every step for years.

    Who knows if it will make any sense, but I think it's likely to be reasonably ok.

    If it's received well then there's some chance that the clown show that is the cabinet up their game. If received badly then it'll be a very, very long winter for Labour. (Relieved only by the warming bonfire that is the Tories)


    I'm an ex-Tory, so not a Labour backer, but I really don't want to see them crash and burn this early in their run. They are after all running the shop.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    I was speaking to a friend today who said it is quite remarkable how many of his friends and colleagues who have come out against Starmer, having voted for him

    He said the disillusionment with the government is widespread in his circles

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    I was speaking to a friend today who said it is quite remarkable how many of his friends and colleagues who have come out against Starmer, having voted for him

    He said the disillusionment with the government is widespread in his circles
    From talking to “non political” types - it seems to be jokes about gifts and a kind of bored resignation to “this lot are a bit crap”.
  • I think it's far, far too early to judge Labour.

    Their first budget hasn't even been announced yet.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    I was speaking to a friend today who said it is quite remarkable how many of his friends and colleagues who have come out against Starmer, having voted for him

    He said the disillusionment with the government is widespread in his circles
    I saw polling that had a third of labour voters satisfied with the govt so far. Sounds about right. Of course that doesn’t mean two thirds are dissatisfied but it is still a bad number for labour.

    I wish I’d stuck to my original plan of not voting
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,793
    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,268
    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827
  • The dissatisfaction so far seems to be among the softest Labour voters.

    The Labour voters I know in London are still fairly optimistic, or at least unperturbed. My usually Tory cousin in Gloucestershire, who voted Starmer, is more in the group of those who 've already written the whole project off. Some of the softer vote may return if there are economic and public service improvements.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    Evening, Putinists.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    HYUFD said:

    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827

    What a pr*ck!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    HYUFD said:

    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827

    Just looked her up on wikipedia. Pretty much every sentence screams "basic left wing idiot." I thought there was a bit about her playing squash which at least deviated from "basic left wing idiot" but on further investigation that turned out not to be what it was about.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,793
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Looking at the big picture, there's a stark difference in the polling for this election compared with 2020.

    image

    There is no doubt that Trump is polling stronger than last time.

    And there is no doubt that polls systematically understated Trump's vote last time.

    The question is have pollsters corrected for what led to the undercount last time?

    If no, then it will be an obvious massive Trump win.

    But if they have corrected, and there is no systematic polling error, then Trump should be slight favourite.

    On the other hand, if the changes they implemented - particularly past vote weighting - result in an overcorrection, then it's entirely possible that Harris is the one being undercounted this time.

    It could also be Trump is a lot more popular nationally now in places it won’t impact the college. He could be a lot more popular in New York, and California, but not nearly enough to carry the state.

    It would make the popular vote very tight, as HY says maybe even a Trump win, yet still deal Trump hefty college defeat as the battleground States narrowly go to Kam one by one.

    If I’m right in “more salutes where you don’t really need them” theory, it makes the popular vote polls this time round very misleading to picking the winner based on PV history.

    I think Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and North Carolina is where it’s at. One candidate could win all four - all be it after days of counting - and be comfortable in the college, in spite of the popular vote.
    I think it is near certain that Trump's vote efficiency will be worse that last time, simply because of how much better he's doing in California and New York. It's why I've been banging on about betting on Trump PV, Harris EV: not because it's the most likely outcome, but because I think it is significantly more likely than the odds suggest.

    (I would also point out that I repeatedly tipped Harris at long odds.)
    I hope you're right. It would be hysterically funny. At least until civil war broke out. :(

    (PS who do you think will win Pennsylvania?)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    I think it's far, far too early to judge Labour.

    Their first budget hasn't even been announced yet.

    That has been their main problem.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    edited October 23

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    For what it's worth, I think the Democrats are so scarred by 2016 and the relative closeness of 2020, that they have underestimated their chances.

    And the same applies on the Republican/Trump side: because their candidate did better than the polls last time, the assumption is that they are winning clearly.

    This flows through into what is being shared, because people share things that fit in with their existing narrative: i.e. the early voting data is disastrous for the Dems! Is it, though? Instead of comparing it to 2020 which was the middle of Covid, how does it compare to 2016 or the 2022 midterms?

    Likewise, the early voting from Georgia, which does not include party affiliation but does include gender and county looked pretty positive for Harris. 55% women, and the Atlanta area the main driver of turnout... I'd be very excited about that if I was the Democrat campaign given how significant the gender differences in turnout are.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,947
    Omnium said:

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    Labour had a good first couple of weeks I thought. The big event is clearly the budget, and always has been. Reeves has been preparing this for years, and Starmer has been backing Reeves at every step for years.
    On that, preparation doesn't necessarily help if it's half-baked and unrealistic.

    I hear from a former colleague that's in a position to know that civil servants were amazed by how her team hadn't anticipated the simplest objections to her policies (e.g. that non-doms might leave if they are shafted, making increasing taxes on them self-defeating).

    That's why there have been so many unattributable leaks of badly thought through policies in the press recently. They were told that their proposals won't raise anything like as much as they thought and are now desperately grasping for any revenue-raising gimmicks they can find.

    But I suppose we'll know in a week.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    That's what I thought - are you implying her imminent resignation @viewcode?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827

    Just looked her up on wikipedia. Pretty much every sentence screams "basic left wing idiot." I thought there was a bit about her playing squash which at least deviated from "basic left wing idiot" but on further investigation that turned out not to be what it was about.
    There are a lot of very poor Labour MPs in terms of qualifications for the job. (They may turn out to be great MPs, but just on paper). The longer the Starmer government clings on, then the more impactful such shallows of talent will be. (Ok, so maybe it's a trifle premature to say they're clinging on :) Fun though!)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    For what it's worth, I think the Democrats are so scarred by 2016 and the relative closeness of 2020, that they have underestimated their chances.

    And the same applies on the Republican/Trump side: because there was out

    This flows through into what is being shared: i.e. the early voting data is disastrous! Is it, though? Instead of comparing it to 2020 which was the middle of Covid, how does it compare to 2016 or the 2022 midterms?

    Likewise, the early voting from Georgia, which does not include party affiliation but does include gender and county looked pretty positive for Harris. 55% women, and the Atlanta area the main driver of turnout... I'd be very excited about that if I was the Democrat campaign given how significant the gender differences in turnout are.
    Harris several points ahead is counter productive for the Dems. A comfortable looking win and they stay at home. I don't think that applies to Trump, his voters will either vote regardless or stay at home regardless.

    I hope your book is right!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    Kamala Harris’ remarks on Hitler:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1849137011875061970
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    For what it's worth, I think the Democrats are so scarred by 2016 and the relative closeness of 2020, that they have underestimated their chances.

    And the same applies on the Republican/Trump side: because there was out

    This flows through into what is being shared: i.e. the early voting data is disastrous! Is it, though? Instead of comparing it to 2020 which was the middle of Covid, how does it compare to 2016 or the 2022 midterms?

    Likewise, the early voting from Georgia, which does not include party affiliation but does include gender and county looked pretty positive for Harris. 55% women, and the Atlanta area the main driver of turnout... I'd be very excited about that if I was the Democrat campaign given how significant the gender differences in turnout are.
    As a reminder, Georgia allows people to vote in person at polling stations in the two and a half weeks running up to polling day. We should expect most voters to have voted by election day, whether Democrat or Republican.

    In total, more than 2 million people have already voted - 90% in person - in Georgia, and 55.5% of them are women.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827

    Just looked her up on wikipedia. Pretty much every sentence screams "basic left wing idiot." I thought there was a bit about her playing squash which at least deviated from "basic left wing idiot" but on further investigation that turned out not to be what it was about.
    There are a lot of very poor Labour MPs in terms of qualifications for the job. (They may turn out to be great MPs, but just on paper). The longer the Starmer government clings on, then the more impactful such shallows of talent will be. (Ok, so maybe it's a trifle premature to say they're clinging on :) Fun though!)
    Though not every Conservative MP in the 2019-24 team was exactly a genius. Heck, there's a fair smattering of idiots in the Magnificent One Hundred and Twenty-One.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Fishing said:

    Omnium said:

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    Labour had a good first couple of weeks I thought. The big event is clearly the budget, and always has been. Reeves has been preparing this for years, and Starmer has been backing Reeves at every step for years.
    On that, preparation doesn't necessarily help if it's half-baked and unrealistic.

    I hear from a former colleague that's in a position to know that civil servants were amazed by how her team hadn't anticipated the simplest objections to her policies (e.g. that non-doms might leave if they are shafted, making increasing taxes on them self-defeating).

    That's why there have been so many unattributable leaks of badly thought through policies in the press recently. They were told that their proposals won't raise anything like as much as they thought and are now desperately grasping for any revenue-raising gimmicks they can find.

    But I suppose we'll know in a week.
    Well the civil service should have ensured that she was adequately prepared. So early on it's their problem, not hers.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    Yuk. More playing opponent not the ball. Do the wonks around her really believe this is working?

    Trumps not the opponent in this race, thinking of change, feeling worse off - especially younger voters - is the opponent to beat.

    Simply focus on how you will create jobs, put money back into pockets and household budgets, and deal with illegal immigration and crime, fess what things have not been great last 4 years, but your focus will deliver on them them in the next 4 years.

    Stop messing this up with belt-tattle and psychobabble about fascism, Kam. 😣
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Kamala Harris’ remarks on Hitler:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1849137011875061970

    Do you work? Or do you just trawl the internet all day looking for counter-intuitive bollocks. Sorry BigG, but it had to be said.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    Yuk. More playing opponent not the ball. Do the wonks around her really believe this is working?

    Trumps not the opponent in this race, thinking of change, feeling worse off - especially younger voters - is the opponent to beat.

    Simply focus on how you will create jobs, put money back into pockets and household budgets, and deal with illegal immigration and crime, fess what things have not been great last 4 years, but your focus will deliver on them them in the next 4 years.

    Stop messing this up with belt-tattle and psychobabble about fascism, Kam. 😣
    Nate Silver did an excellent article on this:

    https://www.natesilver.net/p/likability-isnt-enough
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827

    Just looked her up on wikipedia. Pretty much every sentence screams "basic left wing idiot." I thought there was a bit about her playing squash which at least deviated from "basic left wing idiot" but on further investigation that turned out not to be what it was about.
    There are a lot of very poor Labour MPs in terms of qualifications for the job. (They may turn out to be great MPs, but just on paper). The longer the Starmer government clings on, then the more impactful such shallows of talent will be. (Ok, so maybe it's a trifle premature to say they're clinging on :) Fun though!)
    Though not every Conservative MP in the 2019-24 team was exactly a genius. Heck, there's a fair smattering of idiots in the Magnificent One Hundred and Twenty-One.
    There's a fair smattering of idiots in the possibly-anointed Tory two.

    The back benches are increasingly a liability rather than a reserve - for all parties.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,793
    edited October 23
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    That's what I thought - are you implying her imminent resignation @viewcode?
    @Cookie @Mexicanpete

    No. The referendum was on the Thursday. A few days before, Cameron gave an impromptu speech in Downing Street that contained nothing new. It was a signifier that he knew the campaign was in trouble. I assume the same motivator induced Kamala to speak.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    That's what I thought - are you implying her imminent resignation @viewcode?
    @Cookie @Mexicanpete

    No. The referendum was on the Thursday. A few days before, Cameron gave an impromptu speech in Downing Street that contained nothing new. It was a signifier that he knew the campaign was in trouble. I assume the same motivator induced Kamala to speak.
    Ah, I see - thanks.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    On the subject of Nate Silver, this is a really excellent article he wrote for the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/opinion/election-polls-results-trump-harris.html

    TL;DR

    It's 50/50, but if he had to guess it would be that Trump will win. However, there's been a lot of poll methodology changes in the last four years, so a large polling miss is likely, and he doesn't know which way it will be.

    The best bet, though, is for one of Trump or Harris to sweep at least 6 of the 7 battleground states. He thinks that's a 60+% chance.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,214
    Pro-Harris case: she's got a broader coalition and a broader EC path to victory, she's younger, fresher and without baggage of Trump, Dems normally win the Presidency in recent years.
    Pro-Trump case: he's unusually good at reaching certain voter segments, polls tend to understate him, voters hate hate hate inflation.

    It feels 50/50 to me still.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,921
    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    That's what I thought - are you implying her imminent resignation @viewcode?
    @Cookie @Mexicanpete

    No. The referendum was on the Thursday. A few days before, Cameron gave an impromptu speech in Downing Street that contained nothing new. It was a signifier that he knew the campaign was in trouble. I assume the same motivator induced Kamala to speak.
    A reminder that campaigns know shit, and betting and financial markets know shit too.

    Remember Farage conceding?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    I was shocked to to observe just now, when logging into my BF account that there was a green number associated with David Milliband - I've corrected it immediately - goes without saying, but I just thought I should own up in case the PB committee get wind of it and I'm drummed out! (This was just a 1 pound lay)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    Some good new polling for Harris .

    Quinnipiac had been for the most part in this cycle poor for Harris in the swing states .

    Tonight’s polls show changes with their last polling .

    H2H

    Michigan

    Harris 50 up 3
    Trump 46 down 5

    Wisconsin

    Harris 48 up 1
    Trump 48 down 1
  • Goodwin thinks Kemi Badenoch is woke.

    I’m sure that Kemi Badenoch and Robert Jenrick are good people with a few good ideas, though I have reservations about both. Badenoch, like the Tory elite class, I suspect, is much more comfortable with mass immigration than she lets on, refuses to unequivocally commit to leaving the ECHR, and has not only supported aspects of the woke regime but has shown herself more than willing to indulge it.

    https://x.com/rolandmcs/status/1849135864971944412
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320

    Kamala Harris’ remarks on Hitler:

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1849137011875061970

    Do you work? Or do you just trawl the internet all day looking for counter-intuitive bollocks. Sorry BigG, but it had to be said.
    It's a vocation.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,488
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    "I would like to send my condolences to the family, friends, and loved ones of Chris Kaba."

    "Particularly this week while the media are using racist gang tropes to justify the killing of Chris Kaba."

    Labour MP Kim Johnson
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1849082667020472827

    Just looked her up on wikipedia. Pretty much every sentence screams "basic left wing idiot." I thought there was a bit about her playing squash which at least deviated from "basic left wing idiot" but on further investigation that turned out not to be what it was about.
    The entire substantive content of the "Talk" page:



    Yes, I know, I'm easily amused. But still.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    edited October 23
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    Yuk. More playing opponent not the ball. Do the wonks around her really believe this is working?

    Trumps not the opponent in this race, thinking of change, feeling worse off - especially younger voters - is the opponent to beat.

    Simply focus on how you will create jobs, put money back into pockets and household budgets, and deal with illegal immigration and crime, fess what things have not been great last 4 years, but your focus will deliver on them them in the next 4 years.

    Stop messing this up with belt-tattle and psychobabble about fascism, Kam. 😣
    Nate Silver did an excellent article on this:

    https://www.natesilver.net/p/likability-isnt-enough
    Thank you Robert. That is a convincingly argued piece. Hits the nail in the head.

    The “Better call Gorilla” election. “You need a fighter, not a smiler”.

    The first 30 seconds Kam should give every microphone - “Jobs, full order books, money in pockets and household budgets, secure borders, family safe, crime free neighbourhoods” followed by the confession “not all things have gone well last 4 years, we will get them right the next 4 years.”

    Instead she ramps a presser that’s nothing but speculative psychobabble about fascism.
    She might as well simply said “feeling let down, feeling insecure? Vote Gorilla not another smiler”.
    It couldn’t have done any more harm.

    🦍 Grrrrrrrr
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,548

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Kamala's speech. And yes, it's the same feelz as Cameron's speech in 2016.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMBb3dWodDI

    She's resigning?

    I follow a lot of YouTube channels, mainly anti- Trump Republicans. They seem to think it is tight and could flip either way, and the polling seems to be nip and tuck both at state level and nationallyI have the greatest foreboding when on this site. I genuinely wonder whether we are more Trump favourable here because any Trump positive poll is posted and positive Harris polls posted randomly.

    FWIW I suspect Trump shades the states, but how many?And Harris wins the popular vote but by less that the margin between Hillary and Trump.
    For what it's worth, I think the Democrats are so scarred by 2016 and the relative closeness of 2020, that they have underestimated their chances.

    And the same applies on the Republican/Trump side: because there was out

    This flows through into what is being shared: i.e. the early voting data is disastrous! Is it, though? Instead of comparing it to 2020 which was the middle of Covid, how does it compare to 2016 or the 2022 midterms?

    Likewise, the early voting from Georgia, which does not include party affiliation but does include gender and county looked pretty positive for Harris. 55% women, and the Atlanta area the main driver of turnout... I'd be very excited about that if I was the Democrat campaign given how significant the gender differences in turnout are.
    Harris several points ahead is counter productive for the Dems. A comfortable looking win and they stay at home. I don't think that applies to Trump, his voters will either vote regardless or stay at home regardless.

    I hope your book is right!
    Number of Democrats yours truly knows who are expecting a "comfortable looking win" is ZERO.

    There may be some spouting on the web, but damn thin on the ground! Even in states where Harris IS clearly winning (such as WA State) there are still plenty of down-ballot state and local races AND measures up for grabs.

    Including some that are likely to motivate even low-propensity-to-vote voters, for example choice referendum in Florida.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    The refreshing thing about Starmer is he's more or less the first prime minister since Cameron who hasn't been afraid to make decisions. The one exception was Liz Truss but she had other issues. I think his decisions are mostly defensible albeit you can always take a contrary view. And by the way Cameron made some massive mistakes.

    In some other respects Starmer is quite like Sunak. Neither man is good at retail politics; both are/were highly unpopular; neither is nearly as bad as popular opinion of them and both are massively better than either of Sunak's predecessors.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353

    Goodwin thinks Kemi Badenoch is woke.

    I’m sure that Kemi Badenoch and Robert Jenrick are good people with a few good ideas, though I have reservations about both. Badenoch, like the Tory elite class, I suspect, is much more comfortable with mass immigration than she lets on, refuses to unequivocally commit to leaving the ECHR, and has not only supported aspects of the woke regime but has shown herself more than willing to indulge it.

    https://x.com/rolandmcs/status/1849135864971944412

    Is this the “revolution eating its own children” axiom?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    The refreshing thing about Starmer is he's more or less the first prime minister since Cameron who hasn't been afraid to make decisions. The one exception was Liz Truss but she had other issues. I think his decisions are mostly defensible albeit you can always take a contrary view. And by the way Cameron made some massive mistakes.

    In some other respects Starmer is quite like Sunak. Neither man is good at retail politics; both are/were highly unpopular; neither is nearly as bad as popular opinion of them and both are massively better than either of Sunak's predecessors.
    I've just had a horrible vision of Starmer in charge during covid. Fun police doesn't even begin to cover it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Cookie said:

    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Ugh.

    Unions given twice as long to strike as Labour boosts workers’ rights

    Employment Rights Bill would relax restrictions on unions and extends the strike window to 12 months


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/unions-given-twice-as-long-to-strike-as-labour-boosts-workers-rights-9ncvccdk3

    I think it is becoming increasingly likely that Labour aren’t going to do anything much to fix the country or economy, just cater to their special interests and fiddle while Rome burns. I hope I’m wrong.
    I have a real feeling of Buyers remorse. I expected a government in waiting that was going to hit the ground running. What we have is a govt of mediocre middle managers with moderate policies aimed at their own special interest groups.

    It really is continuity Sunak with a man who has even less charisma now running the nation.
    The refreshing thing about Starmer is he's more or less the first prime minister since Cameron who hasn't been afraid to make decisions. The one exception was Liz Truss but she had other issues. I think his decisions are mostly defensible albeit you can always take a contrary view. And by the way Cameron made some massive mistakes.

    In some other respects Starmer is quite like Sunak. Neither man is good at retail politics; both are/were highly unpopular; neither is nearly as bad as popular opinion of them and both are massively better than either of Sunak's predecessors.
    I've just had a horrible vision of Starmer in charge during covid. Fun police doesn't even begin to cover it.
    I guess Covid wasn't meant to be fun.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,793

    Goodwin thinks Kemi Badenoch is woke.

    I’m sure that Kemi Badenoch and Robert Jenrick are good people with a few good ideas, though I have reservations about both. Badenoch, like the Tory elite class, I suspect, is much more comfortable with mass immigration than she lets on, refuses to unequivocally commit to leaving the ECHR, and has not only supported aspects of the woke regime but has shown herself more than willing to indulge it.

    https://x.com/rolandmcs/status/1849135864971944412

    Is this the “revolution eating its own children” axiom?
    I believe the saying is "More Catholic than the Pope"
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Goodwin thinks Kemi Badenoch is woke.

    I’m sure that Kemi Badenoch and Robert Jenrick are good people with a few good ideas, though I have reservations about both. Badenoch, like the Tory elite class, I suspect, is much more comfortable with mass immigration than she lets on, refuses to unequivocally commit to leaving the ECHR, and has not only supported aspects of the woke regime but has shown herself more than willing to indulge it.

    https://x.com/rolandmcs/status/1849135864971944412

    I don't think Kemi is woke. I think she's fairly middle of the road on the woke/antiwoke spectrum.
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