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11 days to go and punters aren’t expecting Badenoch to Kemikaze her chances – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited November 7 in General
image11 days to go and punters aren’t expecting Badenoch to Kemikaze her chances – politicalbetting.com

On Saturday I did partake in a YouGov poll of Tory members, the last poll had Badenoch defeating Jenrick by the cursed ratio of 52% to 48%. If a new poll shows something similar or Jenrick ahead then I’d expect this market to be jolted.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972
    Ahead like Kemi and Trump?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471
    edited October 22
    Beaten by a nose.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    How can she possibly beat this guy?

    https://x.com/mrhenrymorris/status/1848011342944309508
  • Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Sandpit said:

    Ahead like Kemi and Trump?

    Not really.

    One is a high stakes election that's too close to call; the other, only a few obsessive even care about.

    I'll leave it for others to decide which is which.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Scott_xP said:
    Can we have trigger warnings on such posts? Nobody should have to see Jacob Rees-Mogg, let alone before taking on a large and sustaining breakfast.
  • Sandpit said:

    Ahead like Kemi and Trump?

    ICYMI and I guess Elon Musk has been retweeting this? NO???

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972
    When she slipped to third favourite I had a small wager on her. I expect it to come off.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,972

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
  • Scott_xP said:
    The members like her. I wonder why?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    Sandpit said:

    Ahead like Kemi and Trump?

    ICYMI and I guess Elon Musk has been retweeting this? NO???

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972
    Are you suggesting Musk has been falsely calling somebody he doesn't like a pedo guy?
  • Scott_xP said:
    The members like her. I wonder why?
    Perhaps they fell their core values are represented threw her. I need to define what those core values are.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471
    Comfortable with for Liberals in New Brunswick.

    https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/new-brunswick/2024/results/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,495
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    100% wrong un then
  • Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    Cambridge man too.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ahead like Kemi and Trump?

    ICYMI and I guess Elon Musk has been retweeting this? NO???

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972
    Are you suggesting Musk has been falsely calling somebody he doesn't like a pedo guy?
    Well his site has been.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ahead like Kemi and Trump?

    ICYMI and I guess Elon Musk has been retweeting this? NO???

    Shocked.

    SCOOP:

    Remember the baseless conspiracy being pushed on [Twitter] last week about Tim Walz abusing a former student?

    Turns out, it came from Russia...


    https://x.com/daithaigilbert/status/1848441852422479972
    Are you suggesting Musk has been falsely calling somebody he doesn't like a pedo guy?
    He would never do that!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    Cambridge man too.
    Does that leave Malcolm with a philosophical problem of how to increase his disdain from '100% wrong 'un?'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 22
    PRO TRAVELLER TIP

    When staying in a £1500 a night 5 star Ryokan in central Kyoto, try not to nod off due to acute jet lag while holding a glass of red wine, which then spills all over their exclusive designer tatami mats
  • Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    Goverments are run by Legal Eagles.
  • ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can we have trigger warnings on such posts? Nobody should have to see Jacob Rees-Mogg, let alone before taking on a large and sustaining breakfast.
    The man with spectales on GB news. Yuck.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Has Robert replaced the spellcheck on this site with AI?

    It's chaos on here this morning
  • malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    100% wrong un then
    Nicola Sturgeon is a lawyer.

    Oh.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    100% wrong un then
    Nicola Sturgeon is a lawyer.

    Oh.
    Isn't she a solicitor, rather than a lawyer?

    I know the Americans get a bit confused on that point, but as good Brits we shouldn't.
  • ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Can we have trigger warnings on such posts? Nobody should have to see Jacob Rees-Mogg, let alone before taking on a large and sustaining breakfast.
    The man with spectales on GB news. Yuck.
    I personally never liked him from the beginning.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    100% wrong un then
    Nicola Sturgeon is a lawyer.

    Oh.
    Isn't she a solicitor, rather than a lawyer?

    I know the Americans get a bit confused on that point, but as good Brits we shouldn't.
    Oh dear, that's going to trigger our resident Scotch experts...
  • Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    Cambridge man too.
    Good racket. Get into government. Create some new laws and update some existing ones. The profession will love that.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471
    Leon said:

    PRO TRAVELLER TIP

    When staying in a £1500 a night 5 star Ryokan in central Kyoto, try not to nod off due to acute jet lag while holding a glass of red wine, which then spills all over their exclusive designer tatami mats

    For £1500 a night, I'd expect a bed at the very least.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    The Government has borrowed £6.7bn more so far in this financial year than was forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), delivering the Chancellor less room for her sweeping spending and investment plans.

    Public sector net borrowing excluding banks stood at £79.6bn in the six months to September, which was £1.2bn more the same point last year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).
  • The Government has borrowed £6.7bn more so far in this financial year than was forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), delivering the Chancellor less room for her sweeping spending and investment plans.

    Public sector net borrowing excluding banks stood at £79.6bn in the six months to September, which was £1.2bn more the same point last year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

    There is a surprise!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    The early release of prisoners to tackle overcrowding will be undermined by the “high level of recalls” of offenders to jail, the chief inspector of probation has warned. Martin Jones, chief HMI of probation, said that for every 100 prisoners released in the first quarter of this year, 56 had been recalled to jail because they reoffended or breached their licence.
  • If Kimi wins how long will it last? It could be to the next election or every couple of months we could have a leadership challenge. Revolving non stop challenge till people become oblivious to it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 22

    The Government has borrowed £6.7bn more so far in this financial year than was forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), delivering the Chancellor less room for her sweeping spending and investment plans.

    Public sector net borrowing excluding banks stood at £79.6bn in the six months to September, which was £1.2bn more the same point last year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

    There is a surprise!
    That extra billion from VAT on private schools (and nobody really believes it will raise that) and the cut to WFA ain't going to touch the sides.
  • dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    PRO TRAVELLER TIP

    When staying in a £1500 a night 5 star Ryokan in central Kyoto, try not to nod off due to acute jet lag while holding a glass of red wine, which then spills all over their exclusive designer tatami mats

    For £1500 a night, I'd expect a bed at the very least.
    That red wine goes on those mats you will be out on your ear and your card refunded with a charge taken off for cleaning them.
  • ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    100% wrong un then
    Nicola Sturgeon is a lawyer.

    Oh.
    Isn't she a solicitor, rather than a lawyer?

    I know the Americans get a bit confused on that point, but as good Brits we shouldn't.
    Solicitors + barristers = lawyers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    Leon said:

    PRO TRAVELLER TIP

    When staying in a £1500 a night 5 star Ryokan in central Kyoto, try not to nod off due to acute jet lag while holding a glass of red wine, which then spills all over their exclusive designer tatami mats

    I presume £1500 a night has now become £2000 a night....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    The Government has borrowed £6.7bn more so far in this financial year than was forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), delivering the Chancellor less room for her sweeping spending and investment plans.

    Public sector net borrowing excluding banks stood at £79.6bn in the six months to September, which was £1.2bn more the same point last year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

    There is a surprise!
    It's almost like there was no justification for any of last years Employee NI cuts and that the Tories operated a slash and burn policy to give Labour an impossible task...
  • Oh dear.

    Suella Braverman forwarded government documents to her private email accounts at least 127 times while serving as attorney general, in a potential breach of the ministerial code.

    The Conservative former cabinet minister routinely forwarded correspondence, with at least 290 documents attached, when she was the government’s top legal officer between 2021 and 2022, according to a freedom of information request.

    Ministers are banned from sharing sensitive emails and documents about government business with their private accounts because weaker security means they are at greater risk from unauthorised access.

    After an 18-month transparency battle by the Times, a tribunal judge forced the attorney general’s office (AGO) to disclose details of Braverman’s use of her private email account while in government. It is not known whether she forwarded sensitive or official documents.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/21/suella-braverman-government-documents-private-email?CMP=share_btn_url
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,767
    dixiedean said:

    Beaten by a nose.

    In rowing parlance "beaten by a canvas" could be political parlance too
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    The early release of prisoners to tackle overcrowding will be undermined by the “high level of recalls” of offenders to jail, the chief inspector of probation has warned. Martin Jones, chief HMI of probation, said that for every 100 prisoners released in the first quarter of this year, 56 had been recalled to jail because they reoffended or breached their licence.

    One problem is that people are being released with little notice and no time to sort out accommodation or book a benefit claim (there are prison work coaches who make sure everything should go smoothly). So a lot of people are apparently breaching their licence to get sent back inside. This wilno doubt become more prevalent in the winter
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,443
    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    edited October 22
    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    edited October 22

    Oh dear.

    Suella Braverman forwarded government documents to her private email accounts at least 127 times while serving as attorney general, in a potential breach of the ministerial code.

    The Conservative former cabinet minister routinely forwarded correspondence, with at least 290 documents attached, when she was the government’s top legal officer between 2021 and 2022, according to a freedom of information request.

    Ministers are banned from sharing sensitive emails and documents about government business with their private accounts because weaker security means they are at greater risk from unauthorised access.

    After an 18-month transparency battle by the Times, a tribunal judge forced the attorney general’s office (AGO) to disclose details of Braverman’s use of her private email account while in government. It is not known whether she forwarded sensitive or official documents.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/21/suella-braverman-government-documents-private-email?CMP=share_btn_url

    That's nothing, so you won't be reading that in the Mail or Telegraph. Anyway Starmer had a beer and a curry in Durham.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,394

    If Kimi wins how long will it last? It could be to the next election or every couple of months we could have a leadership challenge. Revolving non stop challenge till people become oblivious to it.

    New 1922 Committee chief Bob Blackman has advocated doubling the threshold needed to oust leaders.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,505
    DavidL said:

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
    And more to come.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    Leon said:

    PRO TRAVELLER TIP

    When staying in a £1500 a night 5 star Ryokan in central Kyoto, try not to nod off due to acute jet lag while holding a glass of red wine, which then spills all over their exclusive designer tatami mats

    I presume £1500 a night has now become £2000 a night....
    Probably. I’m bracing for the bill. It really was jet lag as well, the way it can suddenly hit you and you conk out instantly - eek

    I’ve done worse though. I was once staying in an Airbnb cottage in the middle of Dartmoor which had just been extensively refitted - and luxuriously so - with pure thick white carpeting in the upstairs cottage bedroom

    I was bringing up a bottle of red to drink in the bedroom, tripped on the final steps, and the entire bottle went all over the carpet, staining the whole thing crimson

    It wasn’t a good moment when I went to tell the owner. I think he was expecting a modest little patch that could be fixed

    Then he saw
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    Oh dear.

    Suella Braverman forwarded government documents to her private email accounts at least 127 times while serving as attorney general, in a potential breach of the ministerial code.

    The Conservative former cabinet minister routinely forwarded correspondence, with at least 290 documents attached, when she was the government’s top legal officer between 2021 and 2022, according to a freedom of information request.

    Ministers are banned from sharing sensitive emails and documents about government business with their private accounts because weaker security means they are at greater risk from unauthorised access.

    After an 18-month transparency battle by the Times, a tribunal judge forced the attorney general’s office (AGO) to disclose details of Braverman’s use of her private email account while in government. It is not known whether she forwarded sensitive or official documents.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/21/suella-braverman-government-documents-private-email?CMP=share_btn_url

    Is this reported in the Times as well?
    No surprise, she was absolutely clueless about her legal obligations as a Minister,, and her a Cambridge educated lawyer. :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    If Kimi wins how long will it last? It could be to the next election or every couple of months we could have a leadership challenge. Revolving non stop challenge till people become oblivious to it.

    Hopefully this time the MPs will accept the result of the election, and not start plotting against her from Day 1.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    Cambridge man too.
    Does that leave Malcolm with a philosophical problem of how to increase his disdain from '100% wrong 'un?'
    237% wrong ‘un?

    Or is that too American? Which is 100% wrong ‘un…..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Bobby J is an iPhone user, he's got my vote.
    Lawyer too.
    Cambridge man too.
    Does that leave Malcolm with a philosophical problem of how to increase his disdain from '100% wrong 'un?'
    237% wrong ‘un?

    Or is that too American? Which is 100% wrong ‘un…..
  • @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    If he wins I doubt he will do anything different to last time apart from tax cuts for the super rich. I doubt he will make the four year term. Pointless exercise. The people who support him will have been conned a second time. It would be fabulous to move on from this type of politics and get a leader and administration that improves peoples quality of life and uplifts the majority of them to feel good about themselves. keeps the economy strong. Take a u turn from this bollocks which is precisely what it is.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    4 is not a solution that works on any sane timeframe.

    Take the example of Flint whose problems were first covered in 992 by Michael Moore - nothing has changed and things have got worse even though there have been numerous attempts to fix things.

    5 I don't think is cultural edge stuff - it's been things like abortion which should have been a dealt issue but the Republicans have managed to create issues.

    As for who will win - I haven't got a clue, there is no dataset or opinion polls that looks valid so I'm not going near the market until the night of polling..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,012

    DavidL said:

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
    And more to come.
    Its weird how people expect to get paid every month.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    The Government has borrowed £6.7bn more so far in this financial year than was forecast by the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR), delivering the Chancellor less room for her sweeping spending and investment plans.

    Public sector net borrowing excluding banks stood at £79.6bn in the six months to September, which was £1.2bn more the same point last year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

    Because of their absurdly generous pay settlements with the train drivers. So now we’re even more broke than before and it’s merely encouraged every other public sector union to ask for more cash

    They are calamitous. Worst. Government. Ever
  • eek said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    4 is not a solution that works on any sane timeframe.

    Take the example of Flint whose problems were first covered in 992 by Michael Moore - nothing has changed and things have got worse even though there have been numerous attempts to fix things.

    5 I don't think is cultural edge stuff - it's been things like abortion which should have been a dealt issue but the Republicans have managed to create issues.

    As for who will win - I haven't got a clue, there is no dataset or opinion polls that looks valid so I'm not going near the market until the night of polling..
    Wise man. Wait longer before making any bets.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,972

    Oh dear.

    Suella Braverman forwarded government documents to her private email accounts at least 127 times while serving as attorney general, in a potential breach of the ministerial code.

    The Conservative former cabinet minister routinely forwarded correspondence, with at least 290 documents attached, when she was the government’s top legal officer between 2021 and 2022, according to a freedom of information request.

    Ministers are banned from sharing sensitive emails and documents about government business with their private accounts because weaker security means they are at greater risk from unauthorised access.

    After an 18-month transparency battle by the Times, a tribunal judge forced the attorney general’s office (AGO) to disclose details of Braverman’s use of her private email account while in government. It is not known whether she forwarded sensitive or official documents.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/oct/21/suella-braverman-government-documents-private-email?CMP=share_btn_url

    How do government IT policies even allow documents to be sent externally from the secure system in the first place?

    It’s trivial to configure this on a mail server.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    edited October 22

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Actually, in the case of 5, Biden was and is doing something. See the federal government support for manufacturing and other “primary” sectors, rather than the usual service sector stuff.

    The problem is a combination of it taking time to have an effect and insufficient emphasis on what is happening. Should have been buying a wall of ads for this, starting a while back.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    If he wins I doubt he will do anything different to last time apart from tax cuts for the super rich. I doubt he will make the four year term. Pointless exercise. The people who support him will have been conned a second time. It would be fabulous to move on from this type of politics and get a leader and administration that improves peoples quality of life and uplifts the majority of them to feel good about themselves. keeps the economy strong. Take a u turn from this bollocks which is precisely what it is.
    If Trump wins I expect to see a whole set of stupid ideas being implemented because there will be fewer people quietly stopping him doing stupid things.

    So I can easily see Trump creating a trade war by imposing massive tariffs as he has often suggested because he doesn't know why it's a stupid idea. Remember Trump only sees winners and losers and doesn't under that it's possible that both sides can do better out of a carefully managed deal..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
  • Sandpit said:

    If Kimi wins how long will it last? It could be to the next election or every couple of months we could have a leadership challenge. Revolving non stop challenge till people become oblivious to it.

    Hopefully this time the MPs will accept the result of the election, and not start plotting against her from Day 1.
    I hope that as well.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    The early release of prisoners to tackle overcrowding will be undermined by the “high level of recalls” of offenders to jail, the chief inspector of probation has warned. Martin Jones, chief HMI of probation, said that for every 100 prisoners released in the first quarter of this year, 56 had been recalled to jail because they reoffended or breached their licence.

    Its almost as if sending convicted prisoners into the free world with £46 in their pocket and generally no employment, and often no housing doesn't actually work.
    Sometimes government policy doesn't survive contact with officials.

    Minister: we need to release prisoners early

    Officials: well they could either plan a accelerated early release programme or just pick some prisoners who meet the criteria and give them 24 hours notice (I believe some have been released the same day).

    My belief is the same happened with Windrush. The instruction from Government was not to tolerate illegal immigration. Fair enough it is after all a crime. What did the Home Office do? Targeted a load of people who almost certainly had the right to remain, and had been happily living in the UK for 50 years in some cases, but wouldn't find it easy to produce the paperwork.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    From the conversations I have had with Tory members and the Yougov poll I expect it to be the closest Conservative leadership election ever. Probably it will even be as close as the 2010 Labour leadership election when Ed Miliband scraped a shock win over his more centrist brother David which started Labour's shift back left which continued further under Corbyn until Starmer won.

    So I would certainly not rule out a shock Jenrick win and Badenoch defeat.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    edited October 22
    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Britain has been far more highly leveraged in the past, and survived.

    We are not yet at the stage reached in France in 1786 when Calonne did have to tell Louis XVI there was literally no money left.

    The much bigger risk is that as the debt pile rises and productivity remains low we have to pay much more to service the debt, which in turn forces cuts in government spending in other areas.
  • The early release of prisoners to tackle overcrowding will be undermined by the “high level of recalls” of offenders to jail, the chief inspector of probation has warned. Martin Jones, chief HMI of probation, said that for every 100 prisoners released in the first quarter of this year, 56 had been recalled to jail because they reoffended or breached their licence.

    Its almost as if sending convicted prisoners into the free world with £46 in their pocket and generally no employment, and often no housing doesn't actually work.
    The gentleman in Shawshank Redemption wanted to stay in the prison. The elderly chap. Not Tim or Morgan. He had been inside rather a long time. My son was watching the film with me and predicted correctly if they let him out he will take his life. Still it is only a film. He had lots of friends in prison and none when he was released into Utopia.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,144
    Leon said:

    PRO TRAVELLER TIP

    When staying in a £1500 a night 5 star Ryokan in central Kyoto, try not to nod off due to acute jet lag while holding a glass of red wine, which then spills all over their exclusive designer tatami mats

    Acute jet lag is a new euphemism for your perpetual condition
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Actually, in the case of 5, Biden was and is doing something. See the federal government support for manufacturing and other “primary” sectors, rather than the usual service sector stuff.

    The problem is a combination of it taking time to have an effect and insufficient emphasis on what is happening. Should have been buying a wall of ads for this, starting a while back.
    They probably don't even need the wall of ads - the first thing you need is signs near the locations saying being built thanks to Federal Money. It's one thing the EU does well - if it's funded part of the project there is a big logo attached even in Turkey (where an EU fund paid for a minor bit of Antalya's recent tram network).
  • ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Britain has been far more highly leveraged in the past, and survived.

    We are not yet at the stage reached in France in 1788 when Calonne did have to tell Louis XVI there was literally no money left.

    The much bigger risk is that as the debt pile rises and productivity remains low we have to pay much more to service the debt, which in turn forces cuts in government spending in other areas.
    Print more like Roberto did Zimbabwe. There was a inflation problem though.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    DavidL said:

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
    Which were necessary.

    As a no-doubt well-paid lawyer (and rightly so) you have a strange belief that effective public service can be delivered without paying a reasonable wage. Yes there are other things wrong, but Government has the same need as the private sector to recruit and retain staff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,864
    edited October 22
    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
    Harris and Walz is the most left liberal Democrat ticket since Dukakis and Bentsen. In a normal year it would lose, certainly against a normal
    moderate Republican like
    Haley or Bush Snr but Trump
    is not a normal or moderate
    Republican so they still have
    a chance as does he if he
    can win the rustbelt again as
    he did in 2016 against Hillary but failed to in 2020 against Biden
  • ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Britain has been far more highly leveraged in the past, and survived.

    We are not yet at the stage reached in France in 1786 when Calonne did have to tell Louis XVI there was literally no money left.

    The much bigger risk is that as the debt pile rises and productivity remains low we have to pay much more to service the debt, which in turn forces cuts in government spending in other areas.
    We can ask the Americans, Chinese and the rest of Asia for more as well as the Middle East. Please sir can I have some more.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited October 22
    Oh interesting update on Local Government Finances

    1 in 4 will have to declare effective bankruptcy as Social Care Costs continue to increase faster than revenue....

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/councils-in-crisis-one-in-four-go-bust-budget-rachel-reeves-n3c5w08r2

    There really is no money available anywhere....
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Just as well Reeves is going to put up taxes then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
    Harris and Walz is the most left liberal Democrat ticket since Dukakis and Bentsen. In a normal year it would lose, certainly against a normal moderate Republican like Haley but Trump is not a normal or moderate Republican so they still have a chance as does he if he can win the rustbelt again as he did in 2016 Hillary but failed to in 2020 against Biden
    Clinton and Gore were considerably further left. For one thing, Clinton campaigned on universal free healthcare, which he (or to be exact Hilary) buggered up with Congress when in office. Neither Harris nor Walz are advocating that.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Problem is there are whole parts of the day to day running of the country where things have been cut to the bone already.

    Court sitting days have reduced again while court cases are now being scheduled well into 2026...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,780
    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
    Harris and Walz purport to be the 'adults' and the 'nice' people.

    By spouting bigoted crap they come across as little different to Trump.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited October 22

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Britain has been far more highly leveraged in the past, and survived.

    We are not yet at the stage reached in France in 1786 when Calonne did have to tell Louis XVI there was literally no money left.

    The much bigger risk is that as the debt pile rises and productivity remains low we have to pay much more to service the debt, which in turn forces cuts in government spending in other areas.
    We can ask the Americans, Chinese and the rest of Asia for more as well as the Middle East. Please sir can I have some more.
    Most of the debt is owned by British people or companies, one way of the other. Pensions etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
    Harris and Walz purport to be the 'adults' and the 'nice' people.

    By spouting bigoted crap they come across as little different to Trump.
    In what way are they spouting 'bigoted crap?'

    Is it in the same way that Jack Russell never stood up to quick bowlers, perchance?
  • eek said:

    Oh interesting update on Local Government Finances

    1 in 4 will have to declare effective bankruptcy as Social Care Costs continue to increase faster than revenue....

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/councils-in-crisis-one-in-four-go-bust-budget-rachel-reeves-n3c5w08r2

    There really is no money available anywhere....

    Mud hut anywhere warm in the rest of the world looks like a real solution. Happy people as well.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Until Mr and Mrs Voter are willing to vote for a party prepared to increase tax rates, that's the long and short of it.

    The public gets what the public wants.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
    Harris and Walz purport to be the 'adults' and the 'nice' people.

    By spouting bigoted crap they come across as little different to Trump.
    Really ! Talk about false equivalence. Please give us an example of the “ bigoted crap “ .
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,780
    DavidL said:

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
    The problem isn't wage increases, its wage increases without productivity increases.

    Without productivity increases the wage increases feed through to price / tax / borrowing increases.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited October 22
    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Part of the reason they have such negative polling is that they are going through the OBR process of ensuring that this doesn't happen (or at least making sure there isn't perceived to be a high chance of it over the next 5 years).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Problem is there are whole parts of the day to day running of the country where things have been cut to the bone already.

    Court sitting days have reduced again while court cases are now being scheduled well into 2026...
    There is a simple solution staring us all in the face: tax the £20tn of wealth in the country.

    Unfortunately, no one seems celver enough to do it.
  • Still Kimi will be entertaining in The House. Fireworks. A one women army. The opposition are in for a tough ride if she wins. Good job they have a big majority. They will need it!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    nico679 said:

    ydoethur said:

    @ydoethur FPT

    The argument is very simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    1. There are a large number of people in America who have lives that suck and they see no way out
    2. Trump is offering them a simplistic solution that is very unlikely to work
    3. That is appealing to them so they support him
    4. In order to address this the Democrats need to offer proper effective solutions
    5. They are not doing this, but instead are focusing on issues that have more of a cultural edge to them (“bigoted crap” is a value judgement so not helpful)
    6. Therefore the Democrats will not win

    The fact that Trump is offering a different flavour of bigoted crap doesn’t disprove @another_richard’s argument. Bigoted crap is not necessarily fungible

    Here is the actual post:

    'Perhaps if Harris and Walz stuck to the issues instead of spouting bigoted crap they would be more likely to win.'

    My response was that if that was the case Trump, who does not (contrary to your post) ever address a single issue directly but instead spouts 'bigoted crap,' would have lost.

    So your argument whether simple or not is irrelevant.

    If the Dems do lose we have to look elsewhere for the causes.
    Harris and Walz purport to be the 'adults' and the 'nice' people.

    By spouting bigoted crap they come across as little different to Trump.
    Really ! Talk about false equivalence. Please give us an example of the “ bigoted crap “ .
    This has been the hallmark of this election. The Washington Post fact checking Harris and not fact checking Trump.
  • Kemi Badenoch hacked one IBM
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,780

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Problem is there are whole parts of the day to day running of the country where things have been cut to the bone already.

    Court sitting days have reduced again while court cases are now being scheduled well into 2026...
    There is a simple solution staring us all in the face: tax the £20tn of wealth in the country.

    Unfortunately, no one seems celver enough to do it.
    They're clever enough but not brave enough.

    10% increases in council tax for a few years would be one way.

    Better still would be a council tax revaluation with bands extended to Z.

    But that might take a few years to implement.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited October 22

    DavidL said:

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
    The problem isn't wage increases, its wage increases without productivity increases.

    Without productivity increases the wage increases feed through to price / tax / borrowing increases.
    Private sector productivity has barely increased since 2008 yet wages have gone up there too.
  • Still Kimi will be entertaining in The House. Fireworks. A one women army. The opposition are in for a tough ride if she wins. Good job they have a big majority. They will need it!

    Woman!
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 193
    edited October 22
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Agree with that. And it is why the Government are running around saying “growth” all the time. Of course there is no easy lever to pull to increase productivity and growth. If there was I would like to hope that no government would leave it alone.

    In some ways the pay off to train drivers kind of fits that narrative. We know that there is a cost to the economy from train strikes (and NHS strikes). If the pay off is less than the total cost to the economy isn’t it worth doing it?
  • Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    Part of the reason they have such negative polling is that they are going through the OBR process of ensuring that this doesn't happen (or at least making sure there isn't perceived to be a high chance of it over the next 5 years).
    I doubt it will run out of money. It will just borrow more as the USA does.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Mr. Pointer, and when you try to tax wealth, will the wealthy and their assets stay in this country, or leave?

    Not all wealth can be moved, of course. Council tax on steroids is possible. Or you could drive farmers into bankruptcy (the pre-election murmuring about imposing inheritance tax on farms might come true).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    DavidL said:

    The reason for the increase borrowing was,

    "Central government tax receipts grew strongly (and cost of actually borrowing the money is down), but this was outweighed by higher expenditure, largely driven by benefits uprating and higher spending on public services due to increased running costs."

    e.g

    "Central government spending on providing public services and benefits continue to grow year-on-year, with this month’s combined costs being £4.0 bn more than in July last year. These increases were partially offset by a £1.0 bn year-on-year reduction in debt interest payable."

    Or, in other words, wage increases.
    The problem isn't wage increases, its wage increases without productivity increases.

    Without productivity increases the wage increases feed through to price / tax / borrowing increases.
    Unfortunately, there's not a lot to be done there. Pay isn't just about a reward for productivity, it's also (probably mainly) employers paying the minimum they can to get someone adequate through the door every morning.

    Even if you can't improve the productivity of public sector roles, the cost can still go up, and the kind of wishful thinking Sunak and Hunt indulged in won't change that.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,920

    Still Kimi will be entertaining in The House. Fireworks. A one women army. The opposition are in for a tough ride if she wins. Good job they have a big majority. They will need it!

    Woman!
    Who are "the opposition"? There seems to be some confusion... Or perhaps not....
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Problem is there are whole parts of the day to day running of the country where things have been cut to the bone already.

    Court sitting days have reduced again while court cases are now being scheduled well into 2026...
    There is a simple solution staring us all in the face: tax the £20tn of wealth in the country.

    Unfortunately, no one seems celver enough to do it.
    Haven't we covered this multiple times before - we always end up with a tax on property prices because it's the only thing that can't be quickly moved abroad.

    Although that does remind me why I preferred the easier solution of just taxing based on estimated property value rather than land value based taxes...
  • eek said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Not enough attention is being given to the very real possibility that this government simply runs out of money

    The latest fiscal numbers are a bit better than expected thanks to slightly higher tax receipts, even while this year to date has been worse than forecast.

    But we’ve already run out of money. The outgoing government tried to bribe the voters with two very expensive NI cuts which have used up the entire fiscal headroom. The new government refusing to reverse these leaves us in a pretty poor position. Not a precarious one - our government bond yields aren’t doing anything worrying and our deficit position is better than several peers, so much so that the pound has been rising.

    But there’s not going to be money for a spending bonanza anytime soon. It’s another decade of austerity ahead. Chronic austerity.
    Problem is there are whole parts of the day to day running of the country where things have been cut to the bone already.

    Court sitting days have reduced again while court cases are now being scheduled well into 2026...
    There is a simple solution staring us all in the face: tax the £20tn of wealth in the country.

    Unfortunately, no one seems celver enough to do it.
    They're clever enough but not brave enough.

    10% increases in council tax for a few years would be one way.

    Better still would be a council tax revaluation with bands extended to Z.

    But that might take a few years to implement.
    Make the average persons life a misery.This country is already vastly overpriced for most things. Make a dynamic economy and generate the money needed from that. Stop taking money off people who are generally overstretched and give them a quality of life and and reasons to like being in this country. Stop the never ending black hole of depression and despair. People need hope and a proactive government.
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