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Last night’s debate brings no happy ending for Bobby J – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,212
edited November 7 in General
imageLast night’s debate brings no happy ending for Bobby J – politicalbetting.com

Last night’s debate is set to be the only debate between the gruesome twosome that are Jenrick and Badenoch, so there’s not much opportunity for Jenrick to turn things around. Punters are clear who won last night.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    Good.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,897
    Great thread title btw.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 18
    Two deeply flawed candidates. Tory members are sensibly choosing the least bad
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Good.

    For the best, if not good.

    Both candidates are pretty flawed. They may reveal hidden depths once in the role, the Prince Hal to King Henry transition that Johnson (especially) failed to do. But Jenrick's awful aura is too obvious, and Badenoch is too prone to saying things that sound like policies but would repel the electorate if they became so.

    Neither of them really passes the "could you imagine them as Prime Minister?" test, but few do. Corbyn failed it badly, as did IDS. Cameron and Starmer both passed it, whatever their other flaws. It's not a sufficient condition for success (May, Brown and Sunak were plausible, but fell apart quickly) but it is necessary.

    And the risk for the Conservatives is that, if Jenrick loses this time, he will be in a stronger position to take over in the event that Badenoch blows up in a couple of years.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,826
    edited October 18
    Jenrick wants us out of the European Convention of Human Rights. That alone means, for the sake of the Party, that he should not be elected.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934

    Good.

    For the best, if not good.

    Both candidates are pretty flawed. They may reveal hidden depths once in the role, the Prince Hal to King Henry transition that Johnson (especially) failed to do. But Jenrick's awful aura is too obvious, and Badenoch is too prone to saying things that sound like policies but would repel the electorate if they became so.

    Neither of them really passes the "could you imagine them as Prime Minister?" test, but few do. Corbyn failed it badly, as did IDS. Cameron and Starmer both passed it, whatever their other flaws. It's not a sufficient condition for success (May, Brown and Sunak were plausible, but fell apart quickly) but it is necessary.

    And the risk for the Conservatives is that, if Jenrick loses this time, he will be in a stronger position to take over in the event that Badenoch blows up in a couple of years.
    If Jenrick matures over the coming years, then that will be to the benefit of both him and the Party.

    If that is possible.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,122
    edited October 18

    Jenrick wants us out of the European Convention of Human Rights. That alone means, for the sake of the Party, that he should not be elected.

    Quite.

    At a time when total immigration numbers are falling sharply, making leaving the ECHR a shibboleth for the Parliamentary Party is not only divisive, it highlights the abject failure of Tory immigration policy when in office. If Bobby J wants to remind everyone about his nasty removal of cartoon murals in children´s refugee centres he could hardly do more to highlight it.

    Generic is nasty, but Kemi is nuts.

    Cleverly could be leader within 2 years. The merely adequate is still better than the obvious losers.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Jenrick wants us out of the European Convention of Human Rights. That alone means, for the sake of the Party, that he should not be elected.

    My position is perhaps unusual but despite wanting to stay in the ECHR I really don't mind a Conservative policy to leave it, and it would make me slightly more likely to vote for them.

    The practice from at least the last eight years of blaming the ECHR and our judiciary for stuff the government/Conservative party fail to get right and don't invest in, like law and order, is far more damaging than leaving the ECHR would be.

    Ideally a party that gave both investment and thought to law and order within the ECHR framework, and hopefully we get that with Starmer (we shall see) so it becomes moot.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Leon said:

    Two deeply flawed candidates. Tory members are sensibly choosing the least bad

    The lengthy campaign dragging out over summer has really worked out hasn't it?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172

    Leon said:

    Two deeply flawed candidates. Tory members are sensibly choosing the least bad

    The lengthy campaign dragging out over summer has really worked out hasn't it?
    It's probably given the members what they want ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Good.

    For the best, if not good.

    Both candidates are pretty flawed. They may reveal hidden depths once in the role, the Prince Hal to King Henry transition that Johnson (especially) failed to do. But Jenrick's awful aura is too obvious, and Badenoch is too prone to saying things that sound like policies but would repel the electorate if they became so.

    Neither of them really passes the "could you imagine them as Prime Minister?" test, but few do. Corbyn failed it badly, as did IDS. Cameron and Starmer both passed it, whatever their other flaws. It's not a sufficient condition for success (May, Brown and Sunak were plausible, but fell apart quickly) but it is necessary.

    And the risk for the Conservatives is that, if Jenrick loses this time, he will be in a stronger position to take over in the event that Badenoch blows up in a couple of years.
    If Jenrick matures over the coming years, then that will be to the benefit of both him and the Party.

    If that is possible.
    He's 42, I suspect he's as mature as he's ever going to be.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    Bowen and others should perhaps consider the point I made on the previous thread: Sinwar killed far more Palestinians than he did Israelis or Jews.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    FPT
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Krabbeingeweidemahlzeitbesorgnis

    And a good morning to you, too.
    Guten tag. I see your German is lacking

    Let me break it down:

    Krabbe: crab
    Eingeweide: innards
    Mahlzeit: meal
    Besorgnis: concern

    This compound noun essentially translates to "crab-innards-meal-concern", encapsulating the feeling I have at this precise moment, which is “a concern that I will soon be dining on crab innards”

    This is because I am in a 1300 year old Japanese spa town (Kinosaki-onsen) in Kasei province, on the Sea of Japan, which is known for this delicacy. And I’ve just been told that my famous ryokan is giving me the traditional tasting menu, which is likely to feature this delicacy

    You’re welcome

    *evinces Politiknerdbefriedigungsgenugtuung*
    What's the weather like? I gather Japan has had brutal heattwaves all summer.
    Perfect summer holiday weather - 29C and cloudless. But it shouldn’t be

    That’s about 8C more than normal. This is mid October
    Are they commenting on it? Seems endless heat all summer with records being smashed all over the place. I can't recall hearing anything about Japan and climate change/action.
    Yup, abnormally hot weather is definitely low-key newsworthy.

    As far as climate change action goes there's loads of solar, a bit of wind, and some offshore wind finally getting built out. Insulation of new houses is really good, whereas it used to be non-existent. However they're still a bit hobbled by the fact that they built a whole plan around nuclear, and then they had that issue with the tsunami and the hydrogen explosions. After which the elites sort of thought the public would get over it so they havet really committed to renewables as much as they could, but also the public hasn't got over it so there's also not much nuclear.
    A lot of electric vehicles tho? Unless the Japanese have perfected REALLY quiet internal combustion
    Loads of hybrids, hardly any pure battery-electric. Although if you were to buy a BEV you'd be spoiled for places to charge it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    Even if you accept the premise, it's nonsense. Suggesting it was a worse reverse than the Yom Kippur war suggests he doesn't know much about the Middle East's recent history.
  • Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
  • Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Bring back Johnny Bairstow.
  • Great thread title btw.

    I have a few more lined up on a similar theme.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    Great thread title btw.

    I have a few more lined up on a similar theme.
    In regard to your last sentence, everyone knows who has already won.

    The Labour Party.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    Even if you accept the premise, it's nonsense. Suggesting it was a worse reverse than the Yom Kippur war suggests he doesn't know much about the Middle East's recent history.
    I thought I'd leave that to the historians on here.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Thanks for the header, @TSE .

    One question is how will this change Bobby J's tactics?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited October 18

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Krabbeingeweidemahlzeitbesorgnis

    And a good morning to you, too.
    Guten tag. I see your German is lacking

    Let me break it down:

    Krabbe: crab
    Eingeweide: innards
    Mahlzeit: meal
    Besorgnis: concern

    This compound noun essentially translates to "crab-innards-meal-concern", encapsulating the feeling I have at this precise moment, which is “a concern that I will soon be dining on crab innards”

    This is because I am in a 1300 year old Japanese spa town (Kinosaki-onsen) in Kasei province, on the Sea of Japan, which is known for this delicacy. And I’ve just been told that my famous ryokan is giving me the traditional tasting menu, which is likely to feature this delicacy

    You’re welcome

    *evinces Politiknerdbefriedigungsgenugtuung*
    What's the weather like? I gather Japan has had brutal heattwaves all summer.
    Perfect summer holiday weather - 29C and cloudless. But it shouldn’t be

    That’s about 8C more than normal. This is mid October
    Are they commenting on it? Seems endless heat all summer with records being smashed all over the place. I can't recall hearing anything about Japan and climate change/action.
    Yup, abnormally hot weather is definitely low-key newsworthy.

    As far as climate change action goes there's loads of solar, a bit of wind, and some offshore wind finally getting built out. Insulation of new houses is really good, whereas it used to be non-existent. However they're still a bit hobbled by the fact that they built a whole plan around nuclear, and then they had that issue with the tsunami and the hydrogen explosions. After which the elites sort of thought the public would get over it so they havet really committed to renewables as much as they could, but also the public hasn't got over it so there's also not much nuclear.
    A lot of electric vehicles tho? Unless the Japanese have perfected REALLY quiet internal combustion
    Loads of hybrids, hardly any pure battery-electric. Although if you were to buy a BEV you'd be spoiled for places to charge it.
    Or perhaps the road surface is much better in Japan? Tyre noise tends to be the main thing that contributes to noise pollution.

    Apparently why cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam feel calmer. And Paris now too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    Even if you accept the premise, it's nonsense. Suggesting it was a worse reverse than the Yom Kippur war suggests he doesn't know much about the Middle East's recent history.
    Er... was Yom Kippur a defeat for Israel? A stalemate at worst, surely.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916
    Foxy said:
    I don’t find the “they’re both terrible and they’ll inevitably crash and burn” analysis particularly interesting, to be honest. From here out I would heartily agree they are both flawed candidates who are more likely than not to fail: but it feels to me overly simplistic to write them off. The story of the next GE is far from fixed, and we have a government that is far from loved at the moment. That is not to say that the public is enthusiastic about welcoming the Tories back (far from it) but to be honest I just find this sort of analysis a bit premature.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    edited October 18
    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    7 October was a strategic defeat for everybody, but undeniably it was a tactical success for Hamas and caught the much vaunted IDF and Israeli intelligence off guard. Israeli intelligence may well have completely penetrated Hezbollah, but clearly hasn't Hamas.

    That Hamas are still fighting, and the IDF still having to endlessly retake buildings, many multiple times is another victory for Hamas. It's an astonishing feat considering the Israeli blockade, overwhelming force, control of the air, land, sea and electronic media.

    Hamas are horrendous terrorists, but clearly very resilient fighters.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    Even if you accept the premise, it's nonsense. Suggesting it was a worse reverse than the Yom Kippur war suggests he doesn't know much about the Middle East's recent history.
    Er... was Yom Kippur a defeat for Israel? A stalemate at worst, surely.
    Has the current war (and I agree with Sinwar, Netanyahu and Bowen it is a war) been a defeat for Israel? I would say no. Hamas has been wrecked and Gaza will be reoccupied. Hizbollah has suffered immense damage. Iran is buckling.

    Yom Kippur similarly saw rapid reversals for Israel at the start coupled with a difficult time regaining lost ground towards the end.

    Strategically, it's been a disaster. It's cost them a load of goodwill, empowered the Israeli far right and left them with a very awkward series of conversations to have with states that formerly wanted them as allies.

    The parallels to Yom Kippur (and not just the date) get more and more obvious.

    Hopefully another parallel will be the subsequent rapid defenestration of the government. But this time I doubt if a peacemaker will be the replacement.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
    Sorry, no French. I shall have to Bairstow my wisdom to you in English only.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Eabhal said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Krabbeingeweidemahlzeitbesorgnis

    And a good morning to you, too.
    Guten tag. I see your German is lacking

    Let me break it down:

    Krabbe: crab
    Eingeweide: innards
    Mahlzeit: meal
    Besorgnis: concern

    This compound noun essentially translates to "crab-innards-meal-concern", encapsulating the feeling I have at this precise moment, which is “a concern that I will soon be dining on crab innards”

    This is because I am in a 1300 year old Japanese spa town (Kinosaki-onsen) in Kasei province, on the Sea of Japan, which is known for this delicacy. And I’ve just been told that my famous ryokan is giving me the traditional tasting menu, which is likely to feature this delicacy

    You’re welcome

    *evinces Politiknerdbefriedigungsgenugtuung*
    What's the weather like? I gather Japan has had brutal heattwaves all summer.
    Perfect summer holiday weather - 29C and cloudless. But it shouldn’t be

    That’s about 8C more than normal. This is mid October
    Are they commenting on it? Seems endless heat all summer with records being smashed all over the place. I can't recall hearing anything about Japan and climate change/action.
    Yup, abnormally hot weather is definitely low-key newsworthy.

    As far as climate change action goes there's loads of solar, a bit of wind, and some offshore wind finally getting built out. Insulation of new houses is really good, whereas it used to be non-existent. However they're still a bit hobbled by the fact that they built a whole plan around nuclear, and then they had that issue with the tsunami and the hydrogen explosions. After which the elites sort of thought the public would get over it so they havet really committed to renewables as much as they could, but also the public hasn't got over it so there's also not much nuclear.
    A lot of electric vehicles tho? Unless the Japanese have perfected REALLY quiet internal combustion
    Loads of hybrids, hardly any pure battery-electric. Although if you were to buy a BEV you'd be spoiled for places to charge it.
    Or perhaps the road surface is much better in Japan? Tyre noise tends to be the main thing that contributes to noise pollution.

    Apparently why cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam feel calmer. And Paris now too.
    Anyone else remember when we used to laugh sympathetically at the state of the roads on the continent? French roads in particular are now brilliant whilst ours are terrible.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
    Sorry, no French. I shall have to Bairstow my wisdom to you in English only.
    Maybe Google translate could taylor them into other languages?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Meanwhile, Pakistan's having a good day at the cricket. Not only did they beat England, but India are very much under the cosh against New Zealand - a staggering 338 behind on first innings and the Kiwis still at the crease.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    edited October 18

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
    Sorry, no French. I shall have to Bairstow my wisdom to you in English only.
    Maybe Google translate could taylor them into other languages?
    I shall see what I can Russell up. But puns tend to translate badly so I'm Knott hopeful.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,471

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
    Need to Russell up a TaylorMade solution to this Knotty problem.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143

    Foxy said:
    I don’t find the “they’re both terrible and they’ll inevitably crash and burn” analysis particularly interesting, to be honest. From here out I would heartily agree they are both flawed candidates who are more likely than not to fail: but it feels to me overly simplistic to write them off. The story of the next GE is far from fixed, and we have a government that is far from loved at the moment. That is not to say that the public is enthusiastic about welcoming the Tories back (far from it) but to be honest I just find this sort of analysis a bit premature.
    Agreed there is a lot of uncertainty and volatility ahead. And the wider right wing eco-system, including the media, party membership, divided, bitter and low quality MPs, Trumpite and Faragist influences matter more in bringing down the party than whoever is leader.
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    I can only assume he is unavailable, in which case I should perhaps let the selectors know I am available.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,143
    dixiedean said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
    Need to Russell up a TaylorMade solution to this Knotty problem.
    It may be a bit prior but if you do just send me the billings.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:
    Never mind the Tory leadership debate, Foxy. What are we going to do about the wretched wicketkeeper England are playing?

    Un the last two Tests he has dropped a routine catch, missed the simplest of stumpings and done very little with the bat. You have to wonder who picked him and why.

    Is there a replacement out there or do they have to send home for one?
    Is there a Foakesy anecdote in the offing?
    According to my buttler, your puns make a good read, can you do them in French too perhaps?
    Sorry, no French. I shall have to Bairstow my wisdom to you in English only.
    Maybe Google translate could taylor them into other languages?
    I shall see what I can Russell up. But puns tend to translate badly so I'm Knott hopeful.
    Stuart here. Don't think I've got anything to contribute.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112

    Foxy said:
    I don’t find the “they’re both terrible and they’ll inevitably crash and burn” analysis particularly interesting, to be honest. From here out I would heartily agree they are both flawed candidates who are more likely than not to fail: but it feels to me overly simplistic to write them off. The story of the next GE is far from fixed, and we have a government that is far from loved at the moment. That is not to say that the public is enthusiastic about welcoming the Tories back (far from it) but to be honest I just find this sort of analysis a bit premature.
    I think they are both deeply flawed, but Kemi is merely arrogant and disappears when the going gets tough, while Jenrick is corrupt and slippery.

    Kemi would be better at PMQs, but pretty hopeless at reorganising the party into a winning machine. Jenrick is more organised and driven. A bit Michavelian at times, but that is sometimes needed in a politician. I am not convinced that either will last to the next GE.

    I note too that after a poor start Labour are beginning to get organised on presentation and delivery. They cannot be written off yet.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    tlg86 said:

    Seen a few people upset on X about this from Jeremy Bowen:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm24q3204y3o

    Killing Yahya Sinwar is Israel's biggest victory so far in the war against Hamas in Gaza.

    His death is a serious blow for Hamas, the organisation he turned into a fighting force that inflicted the biggest defeat on the state of Israel in its history.


    Saying 7 October 2023 was a defeat for Israel (and a victory for Palestine?) is an interesting way of describing it; however, it arguably takes the emotion out of the whole issue. There's a war going on and all's fair etc. etc.

    I did not spot the mention of Hamas first, but I see that that is there.

    I would say that the biggest defeat for Israel in its history was perhaps in Southern Lebanon in 2006, when the IDF went for Hezbollah and withdrew not having met objectives with 140 dead and 1200 wounded. It tarnished the IDF aura of invincibility.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:
    I don’t find the “they’re both terrible and they’ll inevitably crash and burn” analysis particularly interesting, to be honest. From here out I would heartily agree they are both flawed candidates who are more likely than not to fail: but it feels to me overly simplistic to write them off. The story of the next GE is far from fixed, and we have a government that is far from loved at the moment. That is not to say that the public is enthusiastic about welcoming the Tories back (far from it) but to be honest I just find this sort of analysis a bit premature.
    I think they are both deeply flawed, but Kemi is merely arrogant and disappears when the going gets tough, while Jenrick is corrupt and slippery.

    Kemi would be better at PMQs, but pretty hopeless at reorganising the party into a winning machine. Jenrick is more organised and driven. A bit Michavelian at times, but that is sometimes needed in a politician. I am not convinced that either will last to the next GE.

    I note too that after a poor start Labour are beginning to get organised on presentation and delivery. They cannot be written off yet.
    Labour have four years to get it right.

    I reckon the Tories have about two.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    All these cricket puns are giving me the Willis...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    All these cricket puns are giving me the Willis...

    You May be right to rebuke us. Perhaps we should take a Grace period.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Rachin Ravindra last man out for the Kiwis for 134. Well played that man. With Kane Williamson nearer the end of his career than the beginning the succession is looking safe.

    And India are 356 behind on first innings. This is also known by the technical term of 'fucked.'
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,668

    All these cricket puns are giving me the Willis...

    There's no Holding back.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    Dr. Foxy, so... Lib Dems to win the next election?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,934
    mwadams said:

    All these cricket puns are giving me the Willis...

    There's no Holding back.
    There's Arlott of them for Shaw.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    mwadams said:

    All these cricket puns are giving me the Willis...

    There's no Holding back.
    You could Boycott the thread?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,141
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    Divine Wind.
    Kemi certainly gives the impression of believing her own farts smell of Chanel No 5.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 18

    Good.

    For the best, if not good.

    Both candidates are pretty flawed. They may reveal hidden depths once in the role, the Prince Hal to King Henry transition that Johnson (especially) failed to do. But Jenrick's awful aura is too obvious, and Badenoch is too prone to saying things that sound like policies but would repel the electorate if they became so.

    Neither of them really passes the "could you imagine them as Prime Minister?" test, but few do. Corbyn failed it badly, as did IDS. Cameron and Starmer both passed it, whatever their other flaws. It's not a sufficient condition for success (May, Brown and Sunak were plausible, but fell apart quickly) but it is necessary.

    And the risk for the Conservatives is that, if Jenrick loses this time, he will be in a stronger position to take over in the event that Badenoch blows up in a couple of years.
    With respect, this is a total load of fucking bollocks

    All it means is that you are prejudiced towards favouring white middle aged men as prime ministers

    A lot of people could not imagine Thatcher - a lower middle class woman! - as PM. She turned out to be the best in generations. Starmer had a certain prime ministerial quality before gaining office - he was a senior lawyer - but it turns out he is terrible at it, a proper disaster, and has the worst early polling of any PM who ever won an election

    From this we should learn that You really cannot tell

    Jenrick or Badenoch are both so young and untested they add an extra layer of doubt. But they will have years as LOTO to give us a clue

    And that’s the other point. The Tories are out of power for 4-5 years. They aren’t choosing a PM. They are choosing someone who can stick it to Skyr and rally the party

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082

    Dr. Foxy, so... Lib Dems to win the next election?

    The Reform/LibDem coalition of 2028 was talked about for a century.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    mwadams said:

    All these cricket puns are giving me the Willis...

    There's no Holding back.
    Yesterday I switched on TMS to hear the lady who's the ECB plant ask Agnew if she could watch him dunk his teabag....
  • ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
    Indeed.

    Kemi is a treatable STI whereas Jenrick is an untreatable STI.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    Eabhal said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Krabbeingeweidemahlzeitbesorgnis

    And a good morning to you, too.
    Guten tag. I see your German is lacking

    Let me break it down:

    Krabbe: crab
    Eingeweide: innards
    Mahlzeit: meal
    Besorgnis: concern

    This compound noun essentially translates to "crab-innards-meal-concern", encapsulating the feeling I have at this precise moment, which is “a concern that I will soon be dining on crab innards”

    This is because I am in a 1300 year old Japanese spa town (Kinosaki-onsen) in Kasei province, on the Sea of Japan, which is known for this delicacy. And I’ve just been told that my famous ryokan is giving me the traditional tasting menu, which is likely to feature this delicacy

    You’re welcome

    *evinces Politiknerdbefriedigungsgenugtuung*
    What's the weather like? I gather Japan has had brutal heattwaves all summer.
    Perfect summer holiday weather - 29C and cloudless. But it shouldn’t be

    That’s about 8C more than normal. This is mid October
    Are they commenting on it? Seems endless heat all summer with records being smashed all over the place. I can't recall hearing anything about Japan and climate change/action.
    Yup, abnormally hot weather is definitely low-key newsworthy.

    As far as climate change action goes there's loads of solar, a bit of wind, and some offshore wind finally getting built out. Insulation of new houses is really good, whereas it used to be non-existent. However they're still a bit hobbled by the fact that they built a whole plan around nuclear, and then they had that issue with the tsunami and the hydrogen explosions. After which the elites sort of thought the public would get over it so they havet really committed to renewables as much as they could, but also the public hasn't got over it so there's also not much nuclear.
    A lot of electric vehicles tho? Unless the Japanese have perfected REALLY quiet internal combustion
    Loads of hybrids, hardly any pure battery-electric. Although if you were to buy a BEV you'd be spoiled for places to charge it.
    Or perhaps the road surface is much better in Japan? Tyre noise tends to be the main thing that contributes to noise pollution.

    Apparently why cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam feel calmer. And Paris now too.
    That’s an interesting point and must be partly true - however I’ve noted that central London has got much quieter in terms of traffic noise in the last 5 years and I’m really not sure London roads are suddenly so much better

    You just don’t hear growling petrol engines so much. And you really notice those that do - eg vrooming motorbikes
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    edited October 18
    FPT:
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    Not again, do the BBC never check the social media of these people?

    https://david-collier.com/no-bbc-not-everything-is-equal/

    That sounds like it would be a lot of work. Well, work, anyway. Much easier to apologise for things afterwards, and who minds about reputation?
    No, in general they don't check the detail enough afaics, even when obvious. Like the rest of our media. I do think the BBC politicise less, however, in general.

    Example: back in around 2017 or 2018 I challenged the Daily Politics on one of their guest video reports from a campaigner claiming that there were only I think 6 disabled MPs in Parliament.

    It was trivial to see that the list did not include Theresa May, the Prime Minister who was walking around with a Type I Diabetic Freestyle Libre blood glucose sensor on her arm which showed whenever she wore a short sleeved or sleeveless dress.

    She had been diagnosed diabetic in 2013 and had been giving public interviews since.

    The response was 'we don't have time to check'.

    If you similarly check the "only 5, or 6, or 9, disabled people in Parliament" which still run, referring back to the earlier fake news story, you will not find the Speaker on any of the lists even now.

    Back in 2018 it was a couple of hours to identify 2 or 3 dozen from APPG Group member biographies.

    Our shitty media and its zombie news stories.

    I wouldn't describe Type 1 diabetes as a disability, more as a treatable medical condition. If someone was blind or had an amputation as a result of diabetes then it could be regarded as a disability, but not otherwise.

    You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. Diabetes on its own would not meet this definition.
    (Jump to last 2 paras for the Disabled MPs thing.)

    That's interesting, and I disagree. I'd say that Type I does meet the EA2010 definition, and Type II does sometimes. Without rabbit-holing for case law around "long term effects of progressive diseases under EA2010" and so on, I sometimes see Type I used as an example condition, including by Government, and this is from the CAB webpage:

    Example
    Tom has type 1 diabetes. He has to monitor his glucose levels and give himself insulin injections several times a day. If he controls his glucose levels, he doesn’t usually have any symptoms.

    He's disabled because without the correct dose of insulin, the diabetes would have a substantial long-term adverse effect on his normal day-to-day activities.

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/dealing-with-discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-youre-disabled-under-the-equality-act-work/

    But it's important to distinguish between that and disability benefits, where eligibility for some benefits is based more on functional criteria (eg around how far can you walk for a Blue Badge), not "are you disabled". This is afaik different from most other European countries.

    On disabled MPs, aside from Type I diabetes, there are dozens of MPs who have been excluded by lurid claims of the type "only 1% of MPs are disabled, but 20% of the population." I could post a list, but it's the principle not the detail here. My main concern here is that such feed into the public mind a concept of "that group over there that are disabled who we help a bit" rather than "part of 'us' who happen to need support at this time"; that is textbook practical 'othering' based around the medical model of disability.

    There was an interesting piece on Disability News Service back in August where they got at "how many MPs have asked for reasonable adjustments due to their disability", which came up with numbers of 43 have had discussions, and 28 had had adjustments under EA2010. Better numbers, but journos being journos the story then became "4 times as many disabled MPs".
    https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/house-of-commons-has-many-more-disabled-mps-than-previously-thought-heartening-new-figures-show/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
    Indeed.

    Kemi is a treatable STI whereas Jenrick is an untreatable STI.
    One is gonorrhoea - painful, embarrassing, requiring long and difficult treatment after admitting the problem, but can be dealt with.

    The other is HIV, which can be controlled but never eradicated, and which most sufferers don't get treated early enough as they don't know they're carrying it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Nice dose of mist and mellow fruitiness in North London today.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 18
    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,945
    While I'm disappointed Cleverly isn't in the final two, not sure describing the two candidates as diseases is sensible. Maybe I'm being prudish, but I was less than happy with Rayner calling Conservatives 'scum'. It's entirely possible to disagree with people without dehumanising them. It's better to attack policies and perspectives than people.

    *adds Jenrick to the space cannon ammunition list*
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited October 18

    Eabhal said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Krabbeingeweidemahlzeitbesorgnis

    And a good morning to you, too.
    Guten tag. I see your German is lacking

    Let me break it down:

    Krabbe: crab
    Eingeweide: innards
    Mahlzeit: meal
    Besorgnis: concern

    This compound noun essentially translates to "crab-innards-meal-concern", encapsulating the feeling I have at this precise moment, which is “a concern that I will soon be dining on crab innards”

    This is because I am in a 1300 year old Japanese spa town (Kinosaki-onsen) in Kasei province, on the Sea of Japan, which is known for this delicacy. And I’ve just been told that my famous ryokan is giving me the traditional tasting menu, which is likely to feature this delicacy

    You’re welcome

    *evinces Politiknerdbefriedigungsgenugtuung*
    What's the weather like? I gather Japan has had brutal heattwaves all summer.
    Perfect summer holiday weather - 29C and cloudless. But it shouldn’t be

    That’s about 8C more than normal. This is mid October
    Are they commenting on it? Seems endless heat all summer with records being smashed all over the place. I can't recall hearing anything about Japan and climate change/action.
    Yup, abnormally hot weather is definitely low-key newsworthy.

    As far as climate change action goes there's loads of solar, a bit of wind, and some offshore wind finally getting built out. Insulation of new houses is really good, whereas it used to be non-existent. However they're still a bit hobbled by the fact that they built a whole plan around nuclear, and then they had that issue with the tsunami and the hydrogen explosions. After which the elites sort of thought the public would get over it so they havet really committed to renewables as much as they could, but also the public hasn't got over it so there's also not much nuclear.
    A lot of electric vehicles tho? Unless the Japanese have perfected REALLY quiet internal combustion
    Loads of hybrids, hardly any pure battery-electric. Although if you were to buy a BEV you'd be spoiled for places to charge it.
    Or perhaps the road surface is much better in Japan? Tyre noise tends to be the main thing that contributes to noise pollution.

    Apparently why cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam feel calmer. And Paris now too.
    Anyone else remember when we used to laugh sympathetically at the state of the roads on the continent? French roads in particular are now brilliant whilst ours are terrible.
    In Scotland, the A Roads and motorways managed by Transport Scotland tend to be in good condition. It's those that are the responsibility of local councils that have deteriorated, which is understandable when you look at the funding cuts they have experienced over the last decade.

    Freeze/thaw cycles + ever heavier vehicles is not a good mix.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    I'm not sure if I would be a "PB-Tory" - not that it matters :smile: .

    I still go with "loose cannon" for KemiKaze.

    (Good morning, Mr Grace - borrowing a line from Mrs Slocombe's Pussy.)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585
    edited October 18
    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    Well you can't do anything about gas and electric prices but business rates are a function of rents so if landlords were realistic in their rents the rates would follow (and most small shops outside the big city centres don't pay them anyway).

    So the fix is probably the one suggested a year or so back - if a shop is empty for more than x months there should be an open auction with the highest bidder given a lease...

    But one problem a lot of town centres have is more shops than is needed when more things are purchased online and people can only afford so many £4 coffees a week (and if you are on the minimum wage not many at all).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
    Indeed.

    Kemi is a treatable STI whereas Jenrick is an untreatable STI.
    One is gonorrhoea - painful, embarrassing, requiring long and difficult treatment after admitting the problem, but can be dealt with.

    The other is HIV, which can be controlled but never eradicated, and which most sufferers don't get treated early enough as they don't know they're carrying it.
    The Tories can PrEP for that, though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    Divine Wind.
    Kemi certainly gives the impression of believing her own farts smell of Chanel No 5.
    I’ve been reading the history of Japan through Shinto and the word Kamikaze - which means divine wind as you say - was first coined in the 12th century when a mix of Japanese naval skill and some favourable storm gods (the divine winds) chased away a massive mongol armada attempting invasion

    Japan was saved from devastation. So a kamikaze is a good war winning thing - a war winning miracle - which is why they applied it to the suicide pilots in WW2. They hoped for another miracle against a vastly superior force
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,378
    edited October 18
    "...This is an AI-generated reporter holding a CNN microphone in an AI-generated location, reading an inputted script....If you think fake news is bad and dangerous now, we are about to enter a whole new era..."

    https://bsky.app/profile/newseye.bsky.social/post/3l65qz6dnlm25
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
    Indeed.

    Kemi is a treatable STI whereas Jenrick is an untreatable STI.
    One is gonorrhoea - painful, embarrassing, requiring long and difficult treatment after admitting the problem, but can be dealt with.

    The other is HIV, which can be controlled but never eradicated, and which most sufferers don't get treated early enough as they don't know they're carrying it.
    The Tories can PrEP for that, though.
    It's antiretrospectives they need not antiretrovirals.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,888
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
    Indeed.

    Kemi is a treatable STI whereas Jenrick is an untreatable STI.
    One is gonorrhoea - painful, embarrassing, requiring long and difficult treatment after admitting the problem, but can be dealt with.

    The other is HIV, which can be controlled but never eradicated, and which most sufferers don't get treated early enough as they don't know they're carrying it.
    BJ (this one or that one) is surely stage four tertiary syphilis.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,709
    Hmmm.

    What was that silly remark I made about India?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,832
    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    I'm not sure she was reappraised. It was more that she became the only alternative to Jenrick :open_mouth:
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    And if the manager of the shopping centre wants to lure back tenants, perhaps the rent she is charging is too high, although somehow that never seems to occur to people like her.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    edited October 18

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    I think it was @TSE who coined it in a header. Before she made it to the final two she was regularly mocked on here by PB Tories in a (forgive me) a somewhat condescending manner. But she increased her share each round and made it to the final two, at which point, after about a hour of panic, she was rapidly reappraised by the same people and found to be wonderful, sagacious, etc. The "KemiKaze" header dates from before then.
    Well, hang on. I don't think anybody is saying that about her.

    They're saying she's not nearly as bad as Jenrick.


    And this is true. Jenrick is somebody whom Tyrion Lannister would describe in blunt terms, and I would only disagree because I would feel it's a bit harsh on c...
    Indeed.

    Kemi is a treatable STI whereas Jenrick is an untreatable STI.
    One is gonorrhoea - painful, embarrassing, requiring long and difficult treatment after admitting the problem, but can be dealt with.

    The other is HIV, which can be controlled but never eradicated, and which most sufferers don't get treated early enough as they don't know they're carrying it.
    BJ (this one or that one) is surely stage four tertiary syphilis.
    Johnson is more like genital herpes. He keeps trying to come back.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Krabbeingeweidemahlzeitbesorgnis

    And a good morning to you, too.
    Guten tag. I see your German is lacking

    Let me break it down:

    Krabbe: crab
    Eingeweide: innards
    Mahlzeit: meal
    Besorgnis: concern

    This compound noun essentially translates to "crab-innards-meal-concern", encapsulating the feeling I have at this precise moment, which is “a concern that I will soon be dining on crab innards”

    This is because I am in a 1300 year old Japanese spa town (Kinosaki-onsen) in Kasei province, on the Sea of Japan, which is known for this delicacy. And I’ve just been told that my famous ryokan is giving me the traditional tasting menu, which is likely to feature this delicacy

    You’re welcome

    *evinces Politiknerdbefriedigungsgenugtuung*
    What's the weather like? I gather Japan has had brutal heattwaves all summer.
    Perfect summer holiday weather - 29C and cloudless. But it shouldn’t be

    That’s about 8C more than normal. This is mid October
    Are they commenting on it? Seems endless heat all summer with records being smashed all over the place. I can't recall hearing anything about Japan and climate change/action.
    Yup, abnormally hot weather is definitely low-key newsworthy.

    As far as climate change action goes there's loads of solar, a bit of wind, and some offshore wind finally getting built out. Insulation of new houses is really good, whereas it used to be non-existent. However they're still a bit hobbled by the fact that they built a whole plan around nuclear, and then they had that issue with the tsunami and the hydrogen explosions. After which the elites sort of thought the public would get over it so they havet really committed to renewables as much as they could, but also the public hasn't got over it so there's also not much nuclear.
    A lot of electric vehicles tho? Unless the Japanese have perfected REALLY quiet internal combustion
    Loads of hybrids, hardly any pure battery-electric. Although if you were to buy a BEV you'd be spoiled for places to charge it.
    Or perhaps the road surface is much better in Japan? Tyre noise tends to be the main thing that contributes to noise pollution.

    Apparently why cities like Copenhagen and Amsterdam feel calmer. And Paris now too.
    Anyone else remember when we used to laugh sympathetically at the state of the roads on the continent? French roads in particular are now brilliant whilst ours are terrible.
    In Scotland, the A Roads and motorways managed by Transport Scotland tend to be in good condition. It's those that are the responsibility of local councils that have deteriorated, which is understandable when you look at the funding cuts they have experienced over the last decade.

    Freeze/thaw cycles + ever heavier vehicles is not a good mix.
    Horrible condition of UK secondary roads goes back forever. When the ABD (Association of British Drivers) was set up around 1992 around the introduction of speed cameras (iirc) by Brian Gregory there was research around showing the UK having the worst secondary road conditions in Europe, except for Portugal.

    I'm sure that there is record of complaints from the 1920s or 1930s, though by then campaigning by the Cyclists' Touring Club had long been working on it via groups such as the Roads Improvement Association - set up in 1882.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roads_Improvement_Association

    (Background: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/15/cyclists-paved-way-for-roads)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    It's a losing battle. Princes Street is the best connected shopping street in Scotland - trams, buses, massive railway station, and it's still got empty units. It's been replaced by online shopping and the new shopping centre at St James' (which is much nicer to walk around).

    Otoh, the new Uniqlo is heaving, and it's where I buy most of my clothes. The outdoor and specialist shops on Rose Street are doing ok, and other "High Streets" in Stockbridge, Morningside, Leith, Portobello are very busy. Perhaps it's just that the big traditional brands are a bit shite.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,405

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    Next door has ducks and an EV. One of their ducks was sitting unspotted under the rear wheel, now a petrol or diesel makes a noise on start up - and you can guess the rest.... obviously a mistake and I'm sure they check thoroughly now but unpleasent nonetheless.
    More broadly won't a lack of noise from vehicles be detrimental to 3 groups - cats, children and the visually impaired ?
  • Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    I'm not opposed to contracting the size of shopping areas if that makes what remains more viable.

    But is there a particular housing shortage in Boston? You do need a balance of employment space (which may well not be retail space, of course) and accommodation for a town to be reasonably prosperous. It's not clear to me that Boston is a boom town where there are loads of job opportunities if only anyone could find somewhere to live.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,112
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    Next door has ducks and an EV. One of their ducks was sitting unspotted under the rear wheel, now a petrol or diesel makes a noise on start up - and you can guess the rest.... obviously a mistake and I'm sure they check thoroughly now but unpleasent nonetheless.
    More broadly won't a lack of noise from vehicles be detrimental to 3 groups - cats, children and the visually impaired ?
    That's why EVs hum. It's hybrids that are often silent but deadly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,172
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    Divine Wind.
    Kemi certainly gives the impression of believing her own farts smell of Chanel No 5.
    I’ve been reading the history of Japan through Shinto and the word Kamikaze - which means divine wind as you say - was first coined in the 12th century when a mix of Japanese naval skill and some favourable storm gods (the divine winds) chased away a massive mongol armada attempting invasion

    Japan was saved from devastation. So a kamikaze is a good war winning thing - a war winning miracle - which is why they applied it to the suicide pilots in WW2. They hoped for another miracle against a vastly superior force
    1598 ought to have disabused them for good of any such dreams of naval miracles.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    And if the manager of the shopping centre wants to lure back tenants, perhaps the rent she is charging is too high, although somehow that never seems to occur to people like her.
    The value of the shopping centre is directly derived from the rents.

    Saying "The business is worth 25% of what it used to be", is a way to get fired.

    Plus banks put into a lot of loans on commercial property that rents could not go down..... So the property "owners"* have no choice.

    Plus a whole chunk of the economy is based on the value of commercial rents. A slow, piecemeal realisation of the results maybe the best we can hope for. Unless you want another banking crisis....

    *Often geared up to the point the bank owns the property and they are a front man.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942
    edited October 18
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    Next door has ducks and an EV. One of their ducks was sitting unspotted under the rear wheel, now a petrol or diesel makes a noise on start up - and you can guess the rest.... obviously a mistake and I'm sure they check thoroughly now but unpleasent nonetheless.
    More broadly won't a lack of noise from vehicles be detrimental to 3 groups - cats, children and the visually impaired ?
    That's why EVs hum. It's hybrids that are often silent but deadly.
    Why having a noisy freehub on your bike can save you from a nasty collision. People depend on their ears when crossing roads.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    It's a losing battle. Princes Street is the best connected shopping street in Scotland - trams, buses, massive railway station, and it's still got empty units. It's been replaced by online shopping and the new shopping centre at St James' (which is much nicer to walk around).

    Otoh, the new Uniqlo is heaving, and it's where I buy most of my clothes. The outdoor and specialist shops on Rose Street are doing ok, and other "High Streets" in Stockbridge, Morningside, Leith, Portobello are very busy. Perhaps it's just that the big traditional brands are a bit shite.
    Rose Street, seems to me, the modern attempt to deal with the death of medium sized shops - go small and specialist. Mix it in with cafes etc....

    The problem is that in the end, bland commercialisation always kills it - see Carnaby Street in London.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,877
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:
    Where did "KemiKaze" come from?

    I saw it here first and have been using it ("flies into things at random and blows herself up"), but where was it coined?
    Divine Wind.
    Kemi certainly gives the impression of believing her own farts smell of Chanel No 5.
    I’ve been reading the history of Japan through Shinto and the word Kamikaze - which means divine wind as you say - was first coined in the 12th century when a mix of Japanese naval skill and some favourable storm gods (the divine winds) chased away a massive mongol armada attempting invasion

    Japan was saved from devastation. So a kamikaze is a good war winning thing - a war winning miracle - which is why they applied it to the suicide pilots in WW2. They hoped for another miracle against a vastly superior force
    How things had changed by the Imjin war in the 16C, when the divine wind was more blowing the other way (Japanese non-invasion of Korea). :smile:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Myeongnyang
  • eekeek Posts: 28,585

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    We are about a mile or so from the A1M and it's still noticeable when we have the window is open,

    However I did reach a similar conclusion a while back that it will be possible to live on a main road in the future in the way you can't at the moment. Especially if it's a county lane once motorbikes go electric (in the Dales that is where the noise comes from).
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,125

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    And if the manager of the shopping centre wants to lure back tenants, perhaps the rent she is charging is too high, although somehow that never seems to occur to people like her.
    The value of the shopping centre is directly derived from the rents.

    Saying "The business is worth 25% of what it used to be", is a way to get fired.

    Plus banks put into a lot of loans on commercial property that rents could not go down..... So the property "owners"* have no choice.

    Plus a whole chunk of the economy is based on the value of commercial rents. A slow, piecemeal realisation of the results maybe the best we can hope for. Unless you want another banking crisis....

    *Often geared up to the point the bank owns the property and they are a front man.
    Loan covenants can be renegotiated and indeed should be if they defy commercial reality.

    Most retail is a dinosaur technology and exactly the kind of inefficient use of land, labour and capital that the creative destruction of capitalism is best at disposing of so that the resources can be put to better use.

    The banking implications, if any, are what we have a lender of last resort for. A quick crisis that is resolved is better than endless, slow decline. What matters is that the inputs used can be redeployed more efficiently as quickly as possible.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    It's a losing battle. Princes Street is the best connected shopping street in Scotland - trams, buses, massive railway station, and it's still got empty units. It's been replaced by online shopping and the new shopping centre at St James' (which is much nicer to walk around).

    Otoh, the new Uniqlo is heaving, and it's where I buy most of my clothes. The outdoor and specialist shops on Rose Street are doing ok, and other "High Streets" in Stockbridge, Morningside, Leith, Portobello are very busy. Perhaps it's just that the big traditional brands are a bit shite.
    Rose Street, seems to me, the modern attempt to deal with the death of medium sized shops - go small and specialist. Mix it in with cafes etc....

    The problem is that in the end, bland commercialisation always kills it - see Carnaby Street in London.
    Rose Street is still too grim to attract the Starbucks etc. it's got an ineffectual pedestrianisation system which means HGVs are driving down it throughout the day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    Next door has ducks and an EV. One of their ducks was sitting unspotted under the rear wheel, now a petrol or diesel makes a noise on start up - and you can guess the rest.... obviously a mistake and I'm sure they check thoroughly now but unpleasent nonetheless.
    More broadly won't a lack of noise from vehicles be detrimental to 3 groups - cats, children and the visually impaired ?
    That's why EVs hum. It's hybrids that are often silent but deadly.
    Why having a noisy freehub on your bike can save you from a nasty collision. People depend on their ears when crossing roads.
    WHAT'S THAT? I CAN"T HEAR YOU. IT MIGHT BE THE CAMPAGNOLO FREEHUB ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,433
    edited October 18
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    We are about a mile or so from the A1M and it's still noticeable when we have the window is open,

    However I did reach a similar conclusion a while back that it will be possible to live on a main road in the future in the way you can't at the moment. Especially if it's a county lane once motorbikes go electric (in the Dales that is where the noise comes from).
    Last Saturday I did a run along the A1 (there was a pavement), and the fumes were very noticeable. But oddly, not as pungent as I recall from when I was a kid. Less sensitive nostrils as an adult, or unleaded fuel?

    As an aside, Mrs J thinks I'm weird because I love the smell of hot tarmac, e.g. when it is being laid.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    Next door has ducks and an EV. One of their ducks was sitting unspotted under the rear wheel, now a petrol or diesel makes a noise on start up - and you can guess the rest.... obviously a mistake and I'm sure they check thoroughly now but unpleasent nonetheless.
    More broadly won't a lack of noise from vehicles be detrimental to 3 groups - cats, children and the visually impaired ?
    That's why EVs hum. It's hybrids that are often silent but deadly.
    Why having a noisy freehub on your bike can save you from a nasty collision. People depend on their ears when crossing roads.
    WHAT'S THAT? I CAN"T HEAR YOU. IT MIGHT BE THE CAMPAGNOLO FREEHUB ?
    I think Shimano made theirs quieter and everyone complained. I like mine, mainly because dogs hear it on shared use paths and move out the way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,082
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    It's a losing battle. Princes Street is the best connected shopping street in Scotland - trams, buses, massive railway station, and it's still got empty units. It's been replaced by online shopping and the new shopping centre at St James' (which is much nicer to walk around).

    Otoh, the new Uniqlo is heaving, and it's where I buy most of my clothes. The outdoor and specialist shops on Rose Street are doing ok, and other "High Streets" in Stockbridge, Morningside, Leith, Portobello are very busy. Perhaps it's just that the big traditional brands are a bit shite.
    Rose Street, seems to me, the modern attempt to deal with the death of medium sized shops - go small and specialist. Mix it in with cafes etc....

    The problem is that in the end, bland commercialisation always kills it - see Carnaby Street in London.
    Rose Street is still too grim to attract the Starbucks etc. it's got an ineffectual pedestrianisation system which means HGVs are driving down it throughout the day.
    Which is why it is an attempt. Seemed pretty reasonable as such attempts go, when I visited Edinburgh in the summer.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,442

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    I'm not opposed to contracting the size of shopping areas if that makes what remains more viable.

    But is there a particular housing shortage in Boston? You do need a balance of employment space (which may well not be retail space, of course) and accommodation for a town to be reasonably prosperous. It's not clear to me that Boston is a boom town where there are loads of job opportunities if only anyone could find somewhere to live.
    There was that hoohhah back in the 1980s when right-wing think tanks were suggesting that cities like Liverpool should be closed down because there was fundamentally no point to them any more.

    In that case, it didn't happen and solutions were found. For places like Boston, Clacton, Great Yarmouth... what exactly are they for in the 21st Century? Too small to be commercial hubs and too remote to be commuter bases. And we have easier access to nicer holiday resorts.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    Jenrick wants us out of the European Convention of Human Rights. That alone means, for the sake of the Party, that he should not be elected.

    He makes it sound so simple. But lots of people, including many other Tories, have explained how it would simply open a can of worms.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,496
    edited October 18
    viewcode said:

    "...This is an AI-generated reporter holding a CNN microphone in an AI-generated location, reading an inputted script....If you think fake news is bad and dangerous now, we are about to enter a whole new era..."

    https://bsky.app/profile/newseye.bsky.social/post/3l65qz6dnlm25

    Interesting. However you should be made aware that anyone who uses Bluesky immediately identifies themselves as a sad woke wanker with status anxiety

    It’s a bit like the centrist dads and their smart watches
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,942

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    One of the seats with a Ref MP.

    "More than a quarter of shops in Boston, Lincolnshire, lie empty and retailers are calling for urgent support. But some local leaders believe the answer is to pivot to leisure and heritage in search of a "new identity". The BBC spent a day in the town to ask what the future might have in store.

    Boston bears the scars of its retail casualties.

    A short walk through the town centre to the Market Place takes in empty shop after empty shop – some boarded up, others with "to let" signs propped up in the windows.

    Look beyond the signs and there are bare walls with tell-tale marks where display cabinets have been ripped away.

    "There won't be a town centre in five years if we continue the way that we are," says Lisa Fitzgerald, who manages the Pescod Square shopping centre."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n15zm430o

    If no one wants to shop there, make it residential. Not as though we have a housing glut.
    It's a losing battle. Princes Street is the best connected shopping street in Scotland - trams, buses, massive railway station, and it's still got empty units. It's been replaced by online shopping and the new shopping centre at St James' (which is much nicer to walk around).

    Otoh, the new Uniqlo is heaving, and it's where I buy most of my clothes. The outdoor and specialist shops on Rose Street are doing ok, and other "High Streets" in Stockbridge, Morningside, Leith, Portobello are very busy. Perhaps it's just that the big traditional brands are a bit shite.
    Rose Street, seems to me, the modern attempt to deal with the death of medium sized shops - go small and specialist. Mix it in with cafes etc....

    The problem is that in the end, bland commercialisation always kills it - see Carnaby Street in London.
    Rose Street is still too grim to attract the Starbucks etc. it's got an ineffectual pedestrianisation system which means HGVs are driving down it throughout the day.
    Which is why it is an attempt. Seemed pretty reasonable as such attempts go, when I visited Edinburgh in the summer.
    Buchanan Street, Glasgow and Inverness High Street are the best examples.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    I just asked a close friend who is a road traffic noise expert and he says it is a combo, he just sent this by email



    1 Electric vehicles: As you mentioned, the increasing adoption of electric cars, buses, and other vehicles is reducing traffic noise. Electric motors are much quieter than internal combustion engines.

    2. Improved road surfaces: Many cities are using noise-reducing asphalt and other materials that help dampen traffic sounds.

    3. Noise regulations: Stricter noise pollution laws and enforcement in many urban areas have led to reductions in allowable noise levels for vehicles, construction, and other activities; also lower speed limits are likewise contributing

    4. Technological improvements: Even traditional vehicles are becoming quieter due to advances in engine design and noise reduction technologies.

    Years back, I suggested to @rcs1000 that the move to ZEVs might well result in a revaluation of houses near major roads.
    We are about a mile or so from the A1M and it's still noticeable when we have the window is open,

    However I did reach a similar conclusion a while back that it will be possible to live on a main road in the future in the way you can't at the moment. Especially if it's a county lane once motorbikes go electric (in the Dales that is where the noise comes from).
    Last Saturday I did a run along the A1 (there was a pavement), and the fumes were very noticeable. But oddly, not as pungent as I recall from when I was a kid. Less sensitive nostrils as an adult, or unleaded fuel?

    As an aside, Mrs J thinks I'm weird because I love the smell of hot tarmac, e.g. when it is being laid.
    Adblue diesels and DPFs are probably the biggest recent difference.
    10 years ago cycling down my road I used to see piles of soot near the traffic lights where DPFs had dumped under acceleration, that seems to have stopped as the technology improved.
This discussion has been closed.