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Persepolis Now – looking at the future of Iran – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,046
edited September 24 in General
imagePersepolis Now – looking at the future of Iran – politicalbetting.com

It is easy to take democracy for granted. In July, the UK had an election. People voted in a free and fair manner, the votes were counted within 12 hours, and the sitting prime minister gave up power and departed the next day.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,978
    The global economy is also waiting on the Japanese megathrust earthquake and the Cascadia megathrust earthquake in the Pacific North West. If they all happen in close proximity, then things coukd get very bumpy.
    Not to mention a Bay of Naples volcanic eruption...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,446
    An excellent threader thanks, Gareth. Top notch.

    IMV Iran is the key player in the Middle East - more so than Saudi, Israel or Turkey. What happens there matters; as we can see with their support of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis etc.
  • Iran's biggest problem, not letting the UK keep Iran after WWII, it would have been for the best.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,185
    FPT…
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Tory leadership contender Kemi Badenoch has defended MPs taking freebie tickets to events, saying it allows them to spend time with their families.

    The Conservatives have accused Labour of being "a government of self-service" and "living the high life" since details emerged of donations to senior figures in the party - including tickets for Sir Keir Starmer to watch football matches and see Taylor Swift in concert.

    But while Ms Badenoch accused the new government of "hypocrisy" for taking donations, she also stood by her own register of interests that shows she had taken tickets and hospitality for a rugby game, the Jingle Bell Ball concert, and Ed Sheeran."

    https://news.sky.com/story/kemi-badenoch-defends-mps-taking-freebies-as-way-to-spend-time-with-family-13220838

    That highlights the fundamental problem with this kind of gift

    In the private sector corporate hospitality is an investment. It is expected to generate a return - nothing as crude as a bribe for business (that would be illegal) but in building a relationship so that you get a call to pitch or some additional insight. That’s why they are carefully monitored and controlled. It’s not just disclosure - but it’s disclosure *and pre-approval* by someone with the power to say “no”.

    An MP should not be participating in this network of implicit obligations.

    But politicians’ campaigns ultimately have to be paid for by donations, so would-be MPs and political parties are accepting much bigger contributions. It seems odd to worry about some Ed Sheeran tickets when Badenoch took a £40k donation from Charles Keymer.

    So what’s your solution? Ban corporate hospitality, but leave these multi-thousand contributions? Ban the multi-thousand contributions, but then who pays for campaigning?
    "It seems odd to worry about some Ed Sheeran tickets when..."

    Both are wrong. Simples.

    They're doubly wrong when they're not declared, or declared late.

    They're quadruplly wrong when one man has bought half the party - even if he is absolutely 100% honest.
    OK, thanks, that’s a clear line you have taken.

    So, who does pay for political activity? Who pays for leaflets, posters, telephone calls, social media ads, coaching the candidate, travel around the country, etc.? Do we only want the personally wealthy to stand?
    There’s a difference between donations to party funds or to a candidate in an election, and donations that are of personal benefit to the MP.

    Leaflets and phone calls are legitimate political activity. Tickets to pop concerts for politicians, not so much.
    OK, that is a consistent line that could be implemented in rules.

    I remain somewhat concerned that we’re saying Kemi Badenoch would be compromised by Ed Sheeran tickets, so those must be outlawed, but Kemi Badenoch won’t be compromised by a £40,000 donation from Charles Keymer. I find that implausible. But I’m not saying I have any better idea. There is this fundamental clash between politics requiring donations for its funding and the problem with politicians being swayed by donations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730

    Iran's biggest problem, not letting the UK keep Iran after WWII, it would have been for the best.

    Installing a weak monarch, having overthrown a democratically elected leader, was one of the west's bigger postwar mistakes in the region. Though our oil companies did pretty well out of it for a few decades.
  • Thank you @Garethofthevale.

    Whatever happens Iranian women will be the losers.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,185
    Great article, Gareth.

    Before the revolution, my dad had an audience with Queen Farah Pahlavi and described copious wealth on display. The problems that led up to the overthrow of the monarchy were very real, yet the revolution was tragically overtaken by the theocrats.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,444
    Great piece, thanks. What is there to say about the recent succession in Qatar? Are there any discernible changes in policy or approach?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,446
    AnthonyT said:

    Thank you @Garethofthevale.

    Whatever happens Iranian women will be the losers.

    Mrs J has some amusing/worrying stories about when she lived in Tehran for a short period as a child. During the Iran/Iraq war.

    (You can tell you've fallen out with your government when they station you in a warzone...)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,322
    Makes the leadership election of the Tories look almost rational, doesn’t it?
  • I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    Bashing the bishops again?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730
    For an example of similar irrationality in politics, look to the US presidential election.
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838301476168376765
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730

    It's remarkable to think how secular Iran was until Khomeini took power.

    I hope we see it revert back.

    But, as in Afghanistan - where women were wearing short dresses in public in the 70s - there was a large urban/rural divide.
    And the secular governments rested on very shaky foundations.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,185

    I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    Andorra and Vatican City also say hello.
  • Foxy said:

    It's remarkable to think how secular Iran was until Khomeini took power.

    I hope we see it revert back.

    It's a Mid East wide trend.

    One of my colleagues trained in Baghdad in the Eighties. The lifestyle, clothes and big hair in her photo album is not very different to my own at the same time in London. The exception was occasional students disappearing and never heard from or spoken of again. She gets very tearful over it at times, equally angry at the clerics, Saddam and the Americans. In a similar vein look at street photos of Kabul or Cairo in the Seventies.

    Another colleague was sent from Iran to boarding school with his brother in the Eighties aged 13 to prevent them being drafted into the war. He didn't see his parents for a decade. Wise and sensible parents, much like those who put their children on the kindertransport.

    Neither was officially a refugees, both came on other visas, but might as well have been.

    I would love to visit Iran, some amazing history there and I have never met an Iranian that I didn't like, though I have only met those who have left Iran.



    A warning to those who think Trumpistan is an impossibility. Things change and can do relatively quickly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,322
    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Good article as an Iran primer. Not as good on the "what happens next" bit because of course no one knows and the list of possible outcomes covers just about everything.

    I think status quo bias is strong here and there will be a seamless handover to whichever new ayatollah it happens to be. I don't see a civil war or uprising or suchlike. Sadly for my beliefs (western liberal democratic as they are).

    The more interesting question is whether, as you ponder, they pivot "towards" the West or seek to validate their fundamentalist position in the ME.

    Anyone have a clue?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,291
    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Eagles, Iran/Persia has a fascinating and very long history. Other areas conquered by early Islam ended up having their culture largely overwritten or altered, whereas the Persian culture remained. I do wonder if this heritage might prove a strong alternative to religious zealotry if the regime is overthrown.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,357
    @Keir_Starmer

    Just because Britain isn’t working at the moment doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.

    With Labour, the work to deliver change has already begun.

    It will be tough in the short-term, but right for our country in the long-term.

    We are rebuilding a Britain that belongs to you.



  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Fishing said:

    It is indeed easy to take democracy for granted, and the danger can be closer to home than we might like to think.

    It isn't so long, for instance, that a large chunk of the political nation refused to accept the outcome of the largest democratic vote in this country's history and did everything they could to frustrate it - incidentally often the same people who get sanctimonious about the dismal Trump's awful refusal to accept the results of the last American election, and including our current Prime Minister.

    Either one is a democrat or one isn't. The test is whether one accepts the results of votes one doesn't like.

    Fantasy.

    All the dissembling was done in the House of Commons. There should be a clue in there for even the most challenged political analysts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,596
    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Just because Britain isn’t working at the moment doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.

    With Labour, the work to deliver change has already begun.

    It will be tough in the short-term, but right for our country in the long-term.

    We are rebuilding a Britain that belongs to you.



    Indeed and very prescient because we all know what happens in the long term.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    It really does sounds like a cult. Apologies for the spelling.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,021
    Taz said:

    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11

    Charged with what?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,021
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995
    Iran does technically elect its President, as indeed does Russia. However in reality yes the power is held by the Supreme Leader.

    The clerics and Ayatollahs are likely to retain most of the power regardless. Given its current involvement in proxy wars with Saudi Arabia in Yemen and Israel in Gaza whether defeat in either forces change would be an interesting question
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,449
    Very interesting piece - thanks @Garethofthevale
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    They've stopped recording murders and rapes?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,021

    I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    Andorra and Vatican City also say hello.
    I think they qualify as microstates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,291
    Taz said:

    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11

    Don’t the cricket authorities have more important things to look at, than what people were wearing to fancy dress parties a decade ago when cultural standards were perhaps a little different from what they are today?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,185
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    LOL.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,449
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Just because Britain isn’t working at the moment doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.

    With Labour, the work to deliver change has already begun.

    It will be tough in the short-term, but right for our country in the long-term.

    We are rebuilding a Britain that belongs to you.



    Indeed and very prescient because we all know what happens in the long term.
    I love that Morland has been drawing Sir K as Eeyore recently.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11

    Charged with what?
    Disrepute, presumably. Do we know who she came as or was it a "generic" get up.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,021
    Great article, Gareth, thanks.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
  • TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11

    Charged with what?
    Disrepute, presumably. Do we know who she came as or was it a "generic" get up.
    Justin Trudeau?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    edited September 24
    Will Iran pivot to the West?

    No intention or need, according to these people. Russia and China filling the gap as Iran perceives the West to be unpredictable and unnecessary.

    https://asiatimes.com/2024/06/will-next-iran-president-make-nicer-with-the-west/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Labour donor urges the party of government to stop schools having to serve (some) meat and instead serve food that coincides with his personal ethics and business interests: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crejwrypryyo
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yep, his nonsense has been normalised to the point that people like you just put it down as the usual political rhetoric.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,847
    Fpt

    Maybe the answer to these freebies is people can only donate them centrally, they can say for which party, they are recorded and MPs can take up what is on offer in the pot. That way even if people do this for "access", no guarantee you don't get somebody who is no use to you and also if the same MP keeps sharp elbowing for every race meet to be in the box with Ladbrokes, its going to be a bit dodgy looking.

    Also, should cut out all the nonsense of gifting a birthday party, knickers for your mistress and dirty weekends away.


    I think @Leon is rather regretting his dirty weekend with the Labour Party
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730
    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    It's his above the fray schtick.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,520
    Two local by-elections today, Labour defence in Surrey (Nick Palmer's old ward) and a Green defence in Mid Suffolk

    https://medium.com/britainelects/previewing-the-waverley-and-mid-suffolk-by-elections-of-tuesday-24th-september-2024-e6143c34912a

  • TazTaz Posts: 13,596
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11

    Charged with what?
    Disrepute, presumably. Do we know who she came as or was it a "generic" get up.
    From the BBC article about it

    "The photograph of Knight was reported to the Cricket Regulator in July of this year and she was charged in August. At the time she was captain of London Spirit in The Hundred, which the side went on to win.

    Interim director of the Cricket Regulator Dave Lewis said: "Cricket is working to become a more inclusive sport and the Cricket Regulator is committed to acting positively and impartially whenever racist behaviour is reported to us.

    "In this case, Ms Knight's behaviour was discriminatory and offensive, however the Cricket Discipline Commission accepted there was no racist intent in her conduct. I welcome her acknowledgment of the potential impact of her behaviour, and her unreserved apology.""
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    edited September 24
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Just because Britain isn’t working at the moment doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.

    With Labour, the work to deliver change has already begun.

    It will be tough in the short-term, but right for our country in the long-term.

    We are rebuilding a Britain that belongs to you.



    Indeed and very prescient because we all know what happens in the long term.
    Labour needs some luck. The normal pattern would be for an expensive emergency to blow a hole through their plans even if the plans themselves are sensible.

    They happen at least every few years. Looking back from now, we’ve had a war and energy price spike, a pandemic, Brexit, the Arab Spring and refugee crisis, a Eurozone debt crisis, a global financial crisis, the Iraq war and its fallout, 9/11, an emerging markets debt crisis. Oh and plenty of mini supply chain disruptions like Houthis or hurricane Katrina or the Japanese tsunami in between.

    Disruption and surprises are the norm so Starmer better start planning for the next one.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @Keir_Starmer

    Just because Britain isn’t working at the moment doesn’t mean it can’t be fixed.

    With Labour, the work to deliver change has already begun.

    It will be tough in the short-term, but right for our country in the long-term.

    We are rebuilding a Britain that belongs to you.



    Indeed and very prescient because we all know what happens in the long term.
    I love that Morland has been drawing Sir K as Eeyore recently.
    Is what is so damaging about freebiegate. Fine, be a puritanical PM who leads us into misery for the greater good. But don't at the same time be living it up on donations of goods and services that elude many of those you are leading.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    It's his above the fray schtick.
    I'm just baffled because Topping's reply to Cookie seems to contradict the reply made to you a moment or two earlier.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995

    I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    No the Vatican city and Andorra too. Indeed the Vatican city head of state is a cleric, the Pope.

    As a Whig and Radical Liberal non Tory no surprise to see you wanting to remove the bishops and remaining hereditaries from the Lords. As a proper Tory though I of course want to keep both.

    Starmer though had a manifesto commitment only to remove the remaining hereditary peers as they are mostly Tories. He will keep the diocesan bishops in the Lords, not least as they supported Labour in opposing the last Conservative government's Rwanda scheme for asylum seekers. Indeed there was no commitment to any elected element of the upper house in the Labour manifesto at all
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yep, his nonsense has been normalised to the point that people like you just put it down as the usual political rhetoric.
    You seem intent on showing your ignorance. It really doesn't matter that you think he's ghastly. His audience is not political Guardian-adjacent geeks shouting the odds on a UK internet chatroom. It is the voters of the US of A.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    An excellent header, thanks @Garethofthevale
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,449
    Ben Wright:

    "I’m pretty sure I heard the cheers emanating from Liverpool when Liz Truss posted a video on Monday to mad-splain her ill-fated Budget two years ago."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/23/reeves-desperately-trying-pull-fuse-out-of-her-own-petard/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    edited September 24
    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or have just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995

    Great article, Gareth.

    Before the revolution, my dad had an audience with Queen Farah Pahlavi and described copious wealth on display. The problems that led up to the overthrow of the monarchy were very real, yet the revolution was tragically overtaken by the theocrats.

    Iran was far better off under the Shahs than now
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yep, his nonsense has been normalised to the point that people like you just put it down as the usual political rhetoric.
    You seem intent on showing your ignorance. It really doesn't matter that you think he's ghastly. His audience is not political Guardian-adjacent geeks shouting the odds on a UK internet chatroom. It is the voters of the US of A.
    So is it the usual political rhetoric or not?

    Or or you just saying that people on a UK chatroom shouldn't offer their opinion on anything for which they are not the audience?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    It's his above the fray schtick.
    I'm just baffled
    Say it again, brother.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,847
    Cookie said:

    Taz said:

    England women’s captain Heather Knight has been charged over a social media post from more than a decade ago when she was photographed in blackface.

    Knight was 21 at the time and at a cricket club in Kent when she attended the fancy dress end of season party.

    She has been reprimanded and issued a £1,000 fine, which is suspended for two years, after admitting to the charge, England’s Cricket Regulator said on Monday.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/england-captain-heather-knight-charged-for-historic-blackface-social-media-post/ar-AA1r3FuT?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=018c2d387b14435b987bc9b8ec94320d&ei=11

    Charged with what?
    Sloppy journalism. She was fined by the ECB not charged by the police

  • Labour donor urges the party of government to stop schools having to serve (some) meat and instead serve food that coincides with his personal ethics and business interests: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crejwrypryyo

    OK, we have a decent test case.

    If the government does what their donor wants, they're as bad as the last lot. If not, they are (a little bit, in this specific instance) better than the last lot.

    But if Dale Vince is calling for something in a public forum (rather than a quiet chat with the relevant minister) then he's a blooming amateur.

    (How does the panel view corporate schmoozing at party conferences? How about on their fringes? Probably dodgy AF, but there is a tenuous work cover story.)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    .
    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yep, his nonsense has been normalised to the point that people like you just put it down as the usual political rhetoric.
    You seem intent on showing your ignorance. It really doesn't matter that you think he's ghastly. His audience is not political Guardian-adjacent geeks shouting the odds on a UK internet chatroom. It is the voters of the US of A.
    So is it the usual political rhetoric or not?

    Or or you just saying that people on a UK chatroom shouldn't offer their opinion on anything for which they are not the audience?
    I didn't necessarily think I would have to spell this out.

    It is his usual political rhetoric. And of course you and Nige are more than welcome to offer your opinion on it but that's as much use, or as interesting as me saying I like blinking.

    We are looking for some insight here and Trump being Trump is not "batshit" in US electoral terms. It is calculated to appeal to a US voting demographic.

    By all means we can parade our virtue on here and be outraged at politicians engaging in political rhetoric, just that it is, on PB in particular, asinine.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
    I find his rhetoric pretty absurd. What has that got to do with it having "proved effective in the past"?

    And where is your evidence that the particular quote that was highlighted is net vote winner? You can certainly make a strong case that a Republican candidate with less batshit rhetoric would be much more likely to win.

    These are pretty simple points that even a 6-year-old can understand, so I can assume that you are a troll - which is obvious given that you can't answer a simple question without resorting to insults.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,523
    Mr. Romford, I broadly agree with that but would argue that there's another dimension here which is that diet is incredibly important, particularly for growing children. Imposing a vegan/vegetarian diet on people against their will is not a good thing.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    edited September 24

    Labour donor urges the party of government to stop schools having to serve (some) meat and instead serve food that coincides with his personal ethics and business interests: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crejwrypryyo

    OK, we have a decent test case.

    If the government does what their donor wants, they're as bad as the last lot. If not, they are (a little bit, in this specific instance) better than the last lot.

    But if Dale Vince is calling for something in a public forum (rather than a quiet chat with the relevant minister) then he's a blooming amateur.

    (How does the panel view corporate schmoozing at party conferences? How about on their fringes? Probably dodgy AF, but there is a tenuous work cover story.)
    I suspect he is calling for it in a public forum because the relevant minister laughed him out of town.

    Meat in school meals must be about item 1,000,000 on a list of issues a schools minister needs to care about..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,291

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    LOL.
    I guess it’s all LOL that retail all across the US is closing down, in city centre locations, with the operators citing out of control crime as the primary reason for the closures.

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/fulton-center-mall-operator-lease-crime-homelessness-concerns-fidi-nyc/5222683/

    Only 42 days of LOL and Vibes to go.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,504
    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
    I find his rhetoric pretty absurd. What has that got to do with it having "proved effective in the past"?

    And where is your evidence that the particular quote that was highlighted is net vote winner? You can certainly make a strong case that a Republican candidate with less batshit rhetoric would be much more likely to win.

    These are pretty simple points that even a 6-year-old can understand, so I can assume that you are a troll - which is obvious given that you can't answer a simple question without resorting to insults.
    Again you show your naivety. You say his rhetoric is absurd but it isn't in the context of attempting to appeal to a particular type of US voter. Of which there are millions. Why is trying to appeal to millions of voters whose votes you want "absurd".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,418
    Cicero said:

    The global economy is also waiting on the Japanese megathrust earthquake and the Cascadia megathrust earthquake in the Pacific North West. If they all happen in close proximity, then things coukd get very bumpy.
    Not to mention a Bay of Naples volcanic eruption...

    The Japanese will, I think, weather a megaquake better than any other country. They have very high standards for building and they have been continually tested by smaller quakes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,418

    Labour donor urges the party of government to stop schools having to serve (some) meat and instead serve food that coincides with his personal ethics and business interests: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crejwrypryyo

    OK, we have a decent test case.

    If the government does what their donor wants, they're as bad as the last lot. If not, they are (a little bit, in this specific instance) better than the last lot.

    But if Dale Vince is calling for something in a public forum (rather than a quiet chat with the relevant minister) then he's a blooming amateur.

    (How does the panel view corporate schmoozing at party conferences? How about on their fringes? Probably dodgy AF, but there is a tenuous work cover story.)
    I think the classic story on the right approach to corruption occurred at Sandhurst. Where, recruits from wealthy families in the Middle East tried bribing the instructors. Who took the bribes and failed the recruits.
  • HYUFD said:

    I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    No the Vatican city and Andorra too. Indeed the Vatican city head of state is a cleric, the Pope.

    As a Whig and Radical Liberal non Tory no surprise to see you wanting to remove the bishops and remaining hereditaries from the Lords. As a proper Tory though I of course want to keep both.

    Starmer though had a manifesto commitment only to remove the remaining hereditary peers as they are mostly Tories. He will keep the diocesan bishops in the Lords, not least as they supported Labour in opposing the last Conservative government's Rwanda scheme for asylum seekers. Indeed there was no commitment to any elected element of the upper house in the Labour manifesto at all
    Which part of micro state do you not understand?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,291

    Cicero said:

    The global economy is also waiting on the Japanese megathrust earthquake and the Cascadia megathrust earthquake in the Pacific North West. If they all happen in close proximity, then things coukd get very bumpy.
    Not to mention a Bay of Naples volcanic eruption...

    The Japanese will, I think, weather a megaquake better than any other country. They have very high standards for building and they have been continually tested by smaller quakes.
    So long as the power stations don’t get flooded by tsunami waves…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,242
    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yep, his nonsense has been normalised to the point that people like you just put it down as the usual political rhetoric.
    You seem intent on showing your ignorance. It really doesn't matter that you think he's ghastly. His audience is not political Guardian-adjacent geeks shouting the odds on a UK internet chatroom. It is the voters of the US of A.
    So is it the usual political rhetoric or not?

    Or or you just saying that people on a UK chatroom shouldn't offer their opinion on anything for which they are not the audience?
    Topping has little interest in US politics but with WH24 set to dominate discussion he needs a way to comment on it that maintains his involvement. He's chosen this approach - pretending to be on Team Trump and battling against the 'groupthink' that it'd be a catastrophe if he were to be president again. It's working quite well so far.

    Offered in the spirit of helpfulness to all (inc Topping).
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,346
    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
    I find his rhetoric pretty absurd. What has that got to do with it having "proved effective in the past"?

    And where is your evidence that the particular quote that was highlighted is net vote winner? You can certainly make a strong case that a Republican candidate with less batshit rhetoric would be much more likely to win.

    These are pretty simple points that even a 6-year-old can understand, so I can assume that you are a troll - which is obvious given that you can't answer a simple question without resorting to insults.
    Again you show your naivety. You say his rhetoric is absurd but it isn't in the context of attempting to appeal to a particular type of US voter. Of which there are millions. Why is trying to appeal to millions of voters whose votes you want "absurd".
    This is the quote we are talking about:

    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."

    If he is trying to appeal to women already in the cult, then it probably works but why do that if they are already committed?

    If he is trying to appeal to uncommitted women, I'll hazard a guess that it won't work. Just a guess that most non-follower women will find his remark creepy, absurd even.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,418
    eek said:

    Mr. Romford, I broadly agree with that but would argue that there's another dimension here which is that diet is incredibly important, particularly for growing children. Imposing a vegan/vegetarian diet on people against their will is not a good thing.

    Biggest problem for most primary school headteachers regarding food is

    1) has the child had breakfast
    2) is the child getting lunch

    I've long advocated the simple solution - work towards all schools providing breakfast, lunch and probably diner. Aside from feeding the hungry, the effect on parents who actually care will also be massive - the current school day doesn't take into account both parents working.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,439
    Nationwide - The new deals will enable a couple earning £50,000 between them to borrow £300,000.

    6 * joint salary is absolute madness lol.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730
    I'm sure Topping can rationalise this Trump interview answer on economics as a sensible calculation.

    In a new interview, Donald Trump is asked by Sharyl Attkisson what specifically he would do to bring down prices if elected president.

    Here is his full response

    https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1838235838427087023
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,021
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yes, and much of that also falls well outside the normal bounds of pilitical rhetoric. You can't argue that this is normal political rhetoric based only on the example of other things the same politician has said.

    FWIW, my view is that he has got significantly batshittier over the past five years or so.
  • TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
    I find his rhetoric pretty absurd. What has that got to do with it having "proved effective in the past"?

    And where is your evidence that the particular quote that was highlighted is net vote winner? You can certainly make a strong case that a Republican candidate with less batshit rhetoric would be much more likely to win.

    These are pretty simple points that even a 6-year-old can understand, so I can assume that you are a troll - which is obvious given that you can't answer a simple question without resorting to insults.
    Again you show your naivety. You say his rhetoric is absurd but it isn't in the context of attempting to appeal to a particular type of US voter. Of which there are millions. Why is trying to appeal to millions of voters whose votes you want "absurd".
    What particular insight do you have on your hypothesis that this is a conscious attempt to ‘appeal to a particular type of US voter’ rather than just Trump being incapable of doing anything other than poop out whatever happens to be floating through his cerebral cortex?

    Do you agree with the regularly aired idea that any non batshit GOP candidate (eg Haley) would be romping towards the White House atm?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,730
    edited September 24

    Cicero said:

    The global economy is also waiting on the Japanese megathrust earthquake and the Cascadia megathrust earthquake in the Pacific North West. If they all happen in close proximity, then things coukd get very bumpy.
    Not to mention a Bay of Naples volcanic eruption...

    The Japanese will, I think, weather a megaquake better than any other country. They have very high standards for building and they have been continually tested by smaller quakes.
    The likelihood of all three events - which might, or might not happen in the next century - all happening at once is extremely remote.

    Large earthquakes can trigger other quakes - but almost always relatively close to the original quake.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,368

    eek said:

    Mr. Romford, I broadly agree with that but would argue that there's another dimension here which is that diet is incredibly important, particularly for growing children. Imposing a vegan/vegetarian diet on people against their will is not a good thing.

    Biggest problem for most primary school headteachers regarding food is

    1) has the child had breakfast
    2) is the child getting lunch

    I've long advocated the simple solution - work towards all schools providing breakfast, lunch and probably diner. Aside from feeding the hungry, the effect on parents who actually care will also be massive - the current school day doesn't take into account both parents working.
    Yes - schools should keep pupils until six pm and feed them three meals per day. Not only does it ensure all kids get fed well but it gives time for activities or homework in place rather than in a chaotic home environment, it allows more parents to work full time which is good for them and the economy and reduces the chances of children getting into trouble where they leave school in the afternoon and wait for a few hours until parents get home.

    The extra cost of staffing and feeding would be worth it for the results. I’m completely guessing that last statement.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,346
    Pulpstar said:

    Nationwide - The new deals will enable a couple earning £50,000 between them to borrow £300,000.

    6 * joint salary is absolute madness lol.

    Apply it to UK government tax income of £0.83tr gives a borrowing figure of £5tr.
    We're only half way there at £2.7tr. Plenty of headroom.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,242
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    Yes, and much of that also falls well outside the normal bounds of pilitical rhetoric. You can't argue that this is normal political rhetoric based only on the example of other things the same politician has said.

    FWIW, my view is that he has got significantly batshittier over the past five years or so.
    There's also a desperation creeping in as the probability of defeat looms.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
    I find his rhetoric pretty absurd. What has that got to do with it having "proved effective in the past"?

    And where is your evidence that the particular quote that was highlighted is net vote winner? You can certainly make a strong case that a Republican candidate with less batshit rhetoric would be much more likely to win.

    These are pretty simple points that even a 6-year-old can understand, so I can assume that you are a troll - which is obvious given that you can't answer a simple question without resorting to insults.
    Again you show your naivety. You say his rhetoric is absurd but it isn't in the context of attempting to appeal to a particular type of US voter. Of which there are millions. Why is trying to appeal to millions of voters whose votes you want "absurd".
    You obviously can't read simple English, as nothing you've written makes even the slightest attempt to answer anything in my post. You seem to think you're so much smarter than all the naive posters on here, but I'm sorry to tell you you come across as a very confused idiot 90% of the time.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,418
    edited September 24

    HYUFD said:

    I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    No the Vatican city and Andorra too. Indeed the Vatican city head of state is a cleric, the Pope.

    As a Whig and Radical Liberal non Tory no surprise to see you wanting to remove the bishops and remaining hereditaries from the Lords. As a proper Tory though I of course want to keep both.

    Starmer though had a manifesto commitment only to remove the remaining hereditary peers as they are mostly Tories. He will keep the diocesan bishops in the Lords, not least as they supported Labour in opposing the last Conservative government's Rwanda scheme for asylum seekers. Indeed there was no commitment to any elected element of the upper house in the Labour manifesto at all
    Which part of micro state do you not understand?
    The bishops in the House of Lords serve a vital role.

    Carrying the mission of the CoE into politics.

    That is, the removal of religion from public discourse. And it's replacement by weak cups of tea and vague niceness.

    If the Bishops are removed from the Lords, they might be replaced by people who believe in God or something dangerous like that.
    And, lest we forget, the world would be an awful lot better than it is if there were more vague niceness about.
    And advocacy for steam trains. (See Yes Minister - the Bishop who liked God and worshiped steam trains).

    Come to think of it, the Blessed Diesel Cycle. Now let us contemplate the Holy Trinity and pray.

    In the name of the crankshafts, AB, BC and CA. Amen.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,600
    Wes Streeting on cutting the WFA: “The whole country’s going to have to put their shoulder to the wheel.”

    https://x.com/bbcnewsnight/status/1838314352132395234
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,497
    edited September 24
    Anyway, Twitter/x seems infested with recurring bot posts about what former c-list presenter Alice Beer has been up to and how it has shocked the nation.
    The world is getting weirder.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995
    Pulpstar said:

    Nationwide - The new deals will enable a couple earning £50,000 between them to borrow £300,000.

    6 * joint salary is absolute madness lol.

    For individuals maybe, for couples not
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,995

    HYUFD said:

    I think it is true that ourselves and Iran are the only two countries in the world (other than microstates) that have unelected clergy in their parliament.

    Hopefully Starmer kicks out the bishops at the same time as the hereditaries.

    No the Vatican city and Andorra too. Indeed the Vatican city head of state is a cleric, the Pope.

    As a Whig and Radical Liberal non Tory no surprise to see you wanting to remove the bishops and remaining hereditaries from the Lords. As a proper Tory though I of course want to keep both.

    Starmer though had a manifesto commitment only to remove the remaining hereditary peers as they are mostly Tories. He will keep the diocesan bishops in the Lords, not least as they supported Labour in opposing the last Conservative government's Rwanda scheme for asylum seekers. Indeed there was no commitment to any elected element of the upper house in the Labour manifesto at all
    Which part of micro state do you not understand?
    The bishops in the House of Lords serve a vital role.

    Carrying the mission of the CoE into politics.

    That is, the removal of religion from public discourse. And it's replacement by weak cups of tea and vague niceness.

    If the Bishops are removed from the Lords, they might be replaced by people who believe in God or something dangerous like that.
    In any case less than 5% of the now fully appointed, once the remaining hereditaries are removed, unelected Lords are C of E bishops. Though I would allow some leaders of other faiths and denominations to be there by right now too
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112

    eek said:

    Mr. Romford, I broadly agree with that but would argue that there's another dimension here which is that diet is incredibly important, particularly for growing children. Imposing a vegan/vegetarian diet on people against their will is not a good thing.

    Biggest problem for most primary school headteachers regarding food is

    1) has the child had breakfast
    2) is the child getting lunch

    I've long advocated the simple solution - work towards all schools providing breakfast, lunch and probably diner. Aside from feeding the hungry, the effect on parents who actually care will also be massive - the current school day doesn't take into account both parents working.
    Provide beds too and you’ve got a boarding school.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Nationwide - The new deals will enable a couple earning £50,000 between them to borrow £300,000.

    6 * joint salary is absolute madness lol.

    A couple earning £50,000 between them would be barely above minimum wage if working full time.

    I would suggest that they improve their skillsets and earning potential before taking out such a mortgage.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,757

    It's remarkable to think how secular Iran was until Khomeini took power.

    I hope we see it revert back.

    I think there was a big divide between Tehran and rural Iran, in the Shah’s time.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Barnesian said:

    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    kamski said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    The FBI confirms, again, that Trump is a liar: https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-2023-crime-in-the-nation-statistics
    Serious crime in the US is falling and has been for a while, since an upward blip during Covid. The murder rate is down 9% and rapes are significantly down too. There is absolutely no trace of crime spiralling out of control, driven by psychotic immigrants.

    Of course this won’t stop Trump from continuing to claim otherwise or his supporters believing it. It is not only Iran where the leaders have irrational beliefs.

    Trump’s point is that cities like San Francisco have simply stopped recording crime below a certain level.

    It’s way more nuanced than “Trump is lying”.
    Nuanced. Good one.

    Just admit it, he's batshit.
    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1838385282346844352
    So you are a newcomer to political rhetoric. I wouldn't necessarily be shouting it from the rooftops.
    I think that's pretty batshit. Certainly comfortably outside the normal bounds of political rhetoric.
    Have you actually listened to anything that Trump has said over the past 10 (30) years?
    What's your point?
    My point, O Super Thicko, is that his rhetoric has proved effective in the past and he sees no reason to alter his style this time round.

    That you and the other politically blind on here dismiss him and his utterings as absurd is testament to the fact that it is you who are "above the fray" and/or just not been paying attention to politics in the US these past few years.
    I find his rhetoric pretty absurd. What has that got to do with it having "proved effective in the past"?

    And where is your evidence that the particular quote that was highlighted is net vote winner? You can certainly make a strong case that a Republican candidate with less batshit rhetoric would be much more likely to win.

    These are pretty simple points that even a 6-year-old can understand, so I can assume that you are a troll - which is obvious given that you can't answer a simple question without resorting to insults.
    Again you show your naivety. You say his rhetoric is absurd but it isn't in the context of attempting to appeal to a particular type of US voter. Of which there are millions. Why is trying to appeal to millions of voters whose votes you want "absurd".
    This is the quote we are talking about:

    Trump addresses women: "I am your protector. I want to be your protector ... you will no longer be abandoned, lonely, or scared. You will no longer be in danger ... you will no longer be thinking about abortion."

    If he is trying to appeal to women already in the cult, then it probably works but why do that if they are already committed?

    If he is trying to appeal to uncommitted women, I'll hazard a guess that it won't work. Just a guess that most non-follower women will find his remark creepy, absurd even.
    It’s pretty classic controlling partner language.
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