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Punters and Fox News say Harris won the debate – politicalbetting.com

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  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Wow.

    Apparently this Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyl0xnrynzo

    The Crowned Thieves rarely looked like they were going to move since about 1975 so, in one sense, it's accurate.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,626
    edited September 11
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Joking aside, I think we should be careful about the Dead Dog mockery. It's completely bonkers. But it pulls the debate into an area Trump wants. "Are migrants eating dead dogs or not". Harris needs to be careful she doesn't let him throw a half-eaten dog on the table.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Also, there is a chance it is true

    Remember when The Sun ran a headline about asylum seekers eating swans in the UK? It was immediately and loudly rubbished as nonsense

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/archive-content/sun-accused-of-swan-bake-myth-making/

    Years later, and much more quietly, it turned out to be true. Multiple sources confirmed it

    https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/immigrant-was-cooking-swan-amid-bird-bodies-6627412.html
    When it's not CATS, it's

    IMMIGRANTS

    You'll be shocked when you come up to Scotland/N.Yorkshire and see what the big estates do to Hen Harriers.
    And everything else!

    Still find illegal traps, even in the Pennines. And stink pits, obvs. Do they think nobody goes off the beaten track?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,670

    Wow.

    Apparently this Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyl0xnrynzo

    Are the corgis (in image in linked article) rather large? Or are they in fact larger than I'd always thought?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    mercator said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Lovely.

    Basically alone? The other day I saw a car advert that said it was 'fully' hybrid. I thought well it is either a hybrid or it isn't. It can be ICE with a little electric or a lot of electric input but it is a hybrid whatever. My car is 'fully' hybrid, but it isn't a plug in so what does 'fully' mean. If it means plug in then say so.

    Ditto 'Basically alone'. What does that mean?

    End of pedantry. You can tell I have a job to do that I am avoiding.
    I was completely alone for 85% of the time. ie if I stopped walking, looked around, I would see and hear no one else. Zero humans (and no human noise)

    Occasionally I saw a fisherman or another hiker, or a lone kayaker in the distance. At one memorable moment I saw a young woman in the world’s tiniest bikini - she was camping and swimming with her boyfriend. She gave me a wide smile as I purposefully looked ahead, determined not to perv her

    I think “basically alone” is a fair description
    It's peak bear season (I was there this time last year and a couple and their dog were killed by a grizzly 40 miles from where I was) so remember to pack bear spray.
    This week is Bear Awareness Week here in Colorado
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,912
    edited September 11
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Ugh, as an accidental landlord, this new government hates landlords.

    Landlords will only be allowed to raise rents once a year, and to the market rate, under Labour’s rent reforms outlined on Wednesday.

    The Government has said it will “ban” in-tenancy rent increases from being written into contracts in legislation set to come in by next summer.

    Currently, if a landlord wants to raise the rent they can either write it into the contract as a yearly set increase, or issue a Section 13 notice when they want to raise it. A tenant can dispute a rent increase – but only after it has been enforced.

    Other commitments announced on Wednesday include a ban on rental bidding wars, and a further “ban” on landlords refusing housing benefit claimants or parents as tenants – although this is already illegal.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/labour-ban-landlords-raising-rents-more-once-year/

    Accidental landlords will just sell up.

    Surely this legislation, however well intended, will only cause there to be fewer rental properties out there.

    It is legislation on the back of demands from tenant activists. Be careful what they wish for.
    Who determines the 'market rate' if the government limits rent rises to the market rate ?
    I think the deterrence of the "Market Rate" criteria (places like Germany already use 'Average Rent' in their regulation) is in stopping LLs being outrageous in their demands. An appeal from the T will make it complicated, so it is about incentivising reasonable behaviour from the start.

    There have been nationwide surveys monitoring that since forever, around Housing Benefit and LHA.

    Remember that Local Housing Allowance is already regulated to the iirc 30th percentile in the local market for that type of property as a cap. That is done within a thing called a "broad rental market area"; Nottingham has one, North Notts has one, so Sheffield will perhaps have two.

    Entitlement is based on how bedrooms the T is entitled to under the rules, which would be based on household / family, and specials such as a disabled couple needing 2 rooms due to the condition of one. This is what the "bedroom tax" stuff was about, though that has always been the case in the PRS, and nobody seemed to give a stuff that PRS Ts never had the same privilege to extra benefit, and still wouldn't have them.

    Then other things come in like savings, the Benefits Cap, and so on.

    So the bureaucracy and data collection / analysis already exists in the Valuations Office Agency - they also do Business Rates values.

    I'll comment separately on TSEs comment.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033
    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    Interesting and I'm sure a coincidence that the two stories side by side on the BBC app front page are: (left) "'I can start my life an innocent man' after conviction for 1990 murder overturned"; and (right) "Lucy Letby attempted to murder baby on day of hospital inspection, inquiry told"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    edited September 11
    Talking of hiking, here’s a panorama shot from yesterday. The mountain on the horizon, just left of centre directly above the artificial snow machines, is Mount Wilson, the Coors Light mountain. Bang in the centre is Telluride airport, one of America’s most challenging, built on a sloping ledge with a sheer drop after the end of the runway. Edit/sadly the resolution after uploading to PB isn’t what it might be, for these details…so just enjoy the vista.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    carnforth said:

    Scarpia said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    This reminds me of the Currant Bun story around 20 years ago about East European asylum seekers poaching swans to eat. Exposed as an urban myth at the time.
    A genuine problem for fish, though:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-20410463

    Plenty of the official fishing signage on UK rivers has translations into eastern european languages now:

    https://www.alamy.com/no-fishing-warning-sign-on-a-railing-in-multi-lingual-eastern-european-languages-english-lithuanian-slovakian-romanian-and-polish-river-witham-w-image601105275.html
    The BBC are just a bunch of racist conspiracy theorists.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    edited September 11
    Not that it much matters, but for the record.

    Trump posted the video of the woman in Canton, Ohio who killed the cat and ate it in August, last night on Truth Social, presumably as some evidence for his false claim during the debate that immigrants are stealing and eating pet cats and dogs.

    As has been reported, she was born in Ohio and her parents were also American. No Haitian connection has been found.

    Her mother went to prison for her role in a murder coverup and Ferrell had many previous drug and theft charges before the cat incident.

    Canton is three hours away from Springfield.

    https://x.com/JSweetLI/status/1833839304990240975

    I loved the interview with Vance, put in the spot, saying "but it might be true.."
    (I paraphrase slightly as he wasn't very coherent.)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    edited September 11
    re bears what do they say, if brown bears are fast but can't climb trees so you won't be able to outrun them on your way to the tree; while black bears are slow but can climb trees so when you get to your tree it will climb it and kill you.

    Seen the odd bear (black or brown I'm not sure) on the pistes at Whistler in my time From the safety of a chairlift.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,752
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    If DJT does lose, I think the point he chucked it away was when he was unable to resist parading the supplication of JDV and gave him the Veep slot.

    That stupid Childless Cat Lady shit and similar lack-witted drivel has dragged on the campaign. He'd have been better off bringing Haley in from the cold.

    In the unlikely event of it being offered, would she have accepted ?
    She's a politician, why the fuck would she refuse? If DJT wins, she's in pole position for the 2028 GOP nomination and there is a sporting chance that the fat piece of shit will have a massive myocardial infarction on the 18th green at some point in the next four years and then she's sat behind the Resolute Desk.
    How did that work out for Pence ?
    How's it going to do for JD ?

    She's not an idiot.
    I have to point out again this is completely unfair. Sending a mob with a noose after Pence for a lynching was very much a one off thing. Its not happened to Vance and it very probably won't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    mercator said:

    Leon said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Joking aside, I think we should be careful about the Dead Dog mockery. It's completely bonkers. But it pulls the debate into an area Trump wants. "Are migrants eating dead dogs or not". Harris needs to be careful she doesn't let him throw a half-eaten dog on the table.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    Also, there is a chance it is true

    Remember when The Sun ran a headline about asylum seekers eating swans in the UK? It was immediately and loudly rubbished as nonsense

    https://pressgazette.co.uk/archive-content/sun-accused-of-swan-bake-myth-making/

    Years later, and much more quietly, it turned out to be true. Multiple sources confirmed it

    https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/immigrant-was-cooking-swan-amid-bird-bodies-6627412.html
    Lithuanians are definitely eating our carp

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-35028556

    Well worn racist trope. Compare the "bat soup" stuff about COVID.
    Lithuanians are Europeans so how can it be racist?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,073
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    That linked article says one problem caused is that the supply of hot water to the whole place has been disrupted. I'd never come across hot water being a utility like drinking water, is it common elsewhere?

    Good afternoon, everybody.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    IanB2 said:

    mercator said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Lovely.

    Basically alone? The other day I saw a car advert that said it was 'fully' hybrid. I thought well it is either a hybrid or it isn't. It can be ICE with a little electric or a lot of electric input but it is a hybrid whatever. My car is 'fully' hybrid, but it isn't a plug in so what does 'fully' mean. If it means plug in then say so.

    Ditto 'Basically alone'. What does that mean?

    End of pedantry. You can tell I have a job to do that I am avoiding.
    I was completely alone for 85% of the time. ie if I stopped walking, looked around, I would see and hear no one else. Zero humans (and no human noise)

    Occasionally I saw a fisherman or another hiker, or a lone kayaker in the distance. At one memorable moment I saw a young woman in the world’s tiniest bikini - she was camping and swimming with her boyfriend. She gave me a wide smile as I purposefully looked ahead, determined not to perv her

    I think “basically alone” is a fair description
    It's peak bear season (I was there this time last year and a couple and their dog were killed by a grizzly 40 miles from where I was) so remember to pack bear spray.
    This week is Bear Awareness Week here in Colorado
    Apparently they are prepping the larder for hibernation and want to guard it from you. Or add you to it. Or both.

    I love the little pictures showing you how to hoist your food up a tree for bear safety. The tree is a sort of oak type thing with horizontal limbs, but every tree for 1000 miles is a conifer, so it just doesn't work.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033

    Wow.

    Apparently this Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyl0xnrynzo

    Not bad of her but just nothing like him.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,626
    Selebian said:

    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    And here we were thinking our infrastructure was dodgy, although something about this seems a bit odd.

    Corrosion to the point of collapse without someone noticing? I suppose it happened in Italy...

    They were exceptionally lucky that there was nobody on it.

    Another entry for the ever popular lecture series of Engineering screw ups, so that you can make different mistakes next time...
    It is particularly odd, since it was recently renovated:

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."
    AIUI the tramway section that collapsed had not been renovated yet. It's in 3 sections - footway/road, bit in the middle (which may be a future cycleway), tramway (or the cycleway may be alongside the tramway). The tramway section had a span go collapso.

    I'd say the greatest disruption would be to river traffic on the Elbe. Is anyone planning a River Cruise up there?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBVnrRNJizg

    https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0555044,13.7467877,3a,72.1y,198.79h,78.89t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sarwn8wqv1IIN9r6yXBda2w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwOC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==
    https://news.sky.com/story/investigation-launched-as-concrete-bridge-partially-collapses-in-germany-13212885

    Some good pictures from various angles.

    Hmmmm.....
    Does this apply? They have form on collapsing bridges, afterall... :wink:

    image of the 'I'm not saying it's Aliens guy' captioned instead with 'I'm not saying it's Ukrainians'
    I hope they don't get a lot of rainfall whilst there is a bridge stuck in the river channel.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,023

    The debate moderator had to actually state that it is the case that "there is no state in USA where it is legal to kill a baby after it has been born".

    America has lost its mind.

    Which is simply not true. If the baby is black, in your home, and you feel threatened by it, then you are allowed you shoot it in self defence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    I remember going straight from Canada (rockies, Lake Louise, Jasper, etc) to Scotland (Mull).

    Very interesting the different landscapes. Scotland was exquisite and powerful and evocative; while in Canada it was the sheer scale that was so impressive, it was just huge and overwhelming.

    As @Leon's picture indicates.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,535
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    That linked article says one problem caused is that the supply of hot water to the whole place has been disrupted. I'd never come across hot water being a utility like drinking water, is it common elsewhere?

    Good afternoon, everybody.
    New York city has a steam network, even odder:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    LOL at yesterday's NYT opinion piece by their politics guy.
    https://x.com/mpdillon/status/1833839230675501238
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    Leon said:

    Has anyone got a cure for jet lag?

    Wide awake at 4am, again

    Ugh!

    Drink more whisky in the evening.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
    If you are ever in Brooklyn, go to the museum and look at the Albert Bierstadt paintings. They are massive images of an America that virtually nobody knew in the 1860's. Incredibly impressive.

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/1558

    Alternatively, there is this in the Smithsonian - of Sierra Nevada, California.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A?hl=en-GB&ms={"x":0.5,"y":0.5,"z":9.357141401203624,"size":{"width":1.486492202380951,"height":1.2374999999999992}}

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,881
    .
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Scarpia said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    This reminds me of the Currant Bun story around 20 years ago about East European asylum seekers poaching swans to eat. Exposed as an urban myth at the time.
    A genuine problem for fish, though:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-20410463

    Plenty of the official fishing signage on UK rivers has translations into eastern european languages now:

    https://www.alamy.com/no-fishing-warning-sign-on-a-railing-in-multi-lingual-eastern-european-languages-english-lithuanian-slovakian-romanian-and-polish-river-witham-w-image601105275.html
    The BBC are just a bunch of racist conspiracy theorists.
    You seem to be struggling with the difference between having evidence, and not having evidence.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    carnforth said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    That linked article says one problem caused is that the supply of hot water to the whole place has been disrupted. I'd never come across hot water being a utility like drinking water, is it common elsewhere?

    Good afternoon, everybody.
    New York city has a steam network, even odder:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_steam_system
    All kinds of networks used to exist.......

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_power_network
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_pneumatic_post
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,912
    edited September 11
    algarkirk said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:
    There’s a little bit of Telegraph exaggeration there. The head of the union is mooting a ballot on strike action. There’s nothing imminent.

    The union remains militant, but I’m not certain the membership is that eager for more strike action. But the union is right that the sector is in trouble. Undergrad fees remain frozen despite the inflation of recent years. It’s not rocket science: costs have gone up, but a major source of income hasn’t, so universities are in deficit.
    Good morning everyone.

    I think this is an interesting one.

    Despite its squeezes, the university sector has had a long period relatively in the sun - meaning perhaps 25 years, compared to for example local authorities, public transport, the legal system, or defence.

    How will this play in a competition for scarce (or "find your own" resources)?

    Universities across the country have been milking the Student Accommodation cash-cow since 2000 or before, and heavily since ~2005-2010, and have also targeted intertnational student fees. What other income sources are available?
    I would want to see evidence to back up that claim

    The biggest providers in the market nowadays are private firms such as Unite, IQ or Student Roost all backed by pension funds.
    Which claim?

    I made several observations. I was also timed out with the following bonus bit:

    Domestic student fees are down afaics by about 35% in real terms since 2010 (£9000 then to £9250 now).
    The claim that Universities are milking the accommodation cash-cow. It's not universities who are the real offenders there...
    OK. Looked up the actual numbers for tuition fee caps in England.

    2006-7 £3000 per year cap
    2012-13 £9000 per year cap
    2017-18 £9250 per year cap
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_tuition_fees_in_the_United_Kingdom

    CPI Inflation:

    2006-2012 20.2%
    2012-2017 7.6%
    2017-2024 (April) 29.1%

    BoE CPI calculator

    (External factors are other funding sources and how they change)





    So 2011 £3000 / year
    2012 £9000 / year
    2024 £9250 / year
    2011 to 2024 increased by 3.08
    2012 to 2024 CPI increase 1.39

    what's your point?

    The repayment system has changed, so some debate over that but the main issue is that £9k is something that you could realistically see yourself clearing in a few years once in a job, but £27,750 isn't, people struggle to reduce the outstanding balance.
    The political reactions in 2046, when the first tranche of £9000 fee loans get written off, will be fascinating. I just hope I am still around to see it.
    the recipients of the loans will still have paid a substantial amount in repayments in most cases though, they just won't have cleared them in full.
    As I see it, there will be 4 distinct groups, who will have differing reactions to this.

    1) high-earning graduates, who will already have paid their loans off;
    2) middle-earning graduates, who were still repaying, but now find themselves with 9% extra disposable income;
    3) low-earning graduates, who will never have paid a penny back on their loans; and
    4) people who never took out a student loan.
    Student loans are bit complicated, but have I got this right? You borrow maybe £50,000 and pay it back at 9% of earnings over about £25 k. Interest rate is about 6 or 7%.

    6% of 50,000 is £3k, so the bill rises by £3K annually unless paid off.

    So just to keep paying off the interest, not reducing the principal, you have to earn £25+£33k per annum - £58K. 9% of £33K is just under £3K. Round here £58K is a lot.

    This calculation must be wrong or else this system is deranged. Can someone put it right/explain?
    Unless the system has been reformed, the interest rates are quite a lot above base on particular tranches of student debt, and it is complicated and inconsistent.
    https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    edited September 11
    TOPPING said:

    I remember going straight from Canada (rockies, Lake Louise, Jasper, etc) to Scotland (Mull).

    Very interesting the different landscapes. Scotland was exquisite and powerful and evocative; while in Canada it was the sheer scale that was so impressive, it was just huge and overwhelming.

    As @Leon's picture indicates.

    Mull is a landscape where the amounts of land, sea and sky are in exquisite proportion.

    My most favourite place on the planet. And I've been to 80-odd countries on every continent.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    Many years ago I used to stay in one of the cottages and the first thing we would do is to fix up the rickety pipes to bring the water from the burn down to be able to cook, clean, (and add to Old Mull Whisky).

    Bliss
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    IanB2 said:

    Talking of hiking, here’s a panorama shot from yesterday. The mountain on the horizon, just left of centre directly above the artificial snow machines, is Mount Wilson, the Coors Light mountain. Bang in the centre is Telluride airport, one of America’s most challenging, built on a sloping ledge with a sheer drop after the end of the runway. Edit/sadly the resolution after uploading to PB isn’t what it might be, for these details…so just enjoy the vista.


    Telluride Airport looks absolutely horrific for anything bigger than a glider tug!

    Definitely no hellish rotor that wants to turn your aircraft upside-down on short final :open_mouth:

    https://static1.simpleflyingimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/5969831874_f568b7729e_k.jpg
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,170
    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    What happened to the "out of control" immigrants eating cats in Springfield story you were posting earlier?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,013
    mercator said:

    IanB2 said:

    mercator said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Lovely.

    Basically alone? The other day I saw a car advert that said it was 'fully' hybrid. I thought well it is either a hybrid or it isn't. It can be ICE with a little electric or a lot of electric input but it is a hybrid whatever. My car is 'fully' hybrid, but it isn't a plug in so what does 'fully' mean. If it means plug in then say so.

    Ditto 'Basically alone'. What does that mean?

    End of pedantry. You can tell I have a job to do that I am avoiding.
    I was completely alone for 85% of the time. ie if I stopped walking, looked around, I would see and hear no one else. Zero humans (and no human noise)

    Occasionally I saw a fisherman or another hiker, or a lone kayaker in the distance. At one memorable moment I saw a young woman in the world’s tiniest bikini - she was camping and swimming with her boyfriend. She gave me a wide smile as I purposefully looked ahead, determined not to perv her

    I think “basically alone” is a fair description
    It's peak bear season (I was there this time last year and a couple and their dog were killed by a grizzly 40 miles from where I was) so remember to pack bear spray.
    This week is Bear Awareness Week here in Colorado
    Apparently they are prepping the larder for hibernation and want to guard it from you. Or add you to it. Or both.

    I love the little pictures showing you how to hoist your food up a tree for bear safety. The tree is a sort of oak type thing with horizontal limbs, but every tree for 1000 miles is a conifer, so it just doesn't work.
    Fat Bear Week starts on the 2nd.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,912
    carnforth said:

    Ugh, as an accidental landlord, this new government hates landlords.

    Landlords will only be allowed to raise rents once a year, and to the market rate, under Labour’s rent reforms outlined on Wednesday.

    The Government has said it will “ban” in-tenancy rent increases from being written into contracts in legislation set to come in by next summer.

    Currently, if a landlord wants to raise the rent they can either write it into the contract as a yearly set increase, or issue a Section 13 notice when they want to raise it. A tenant can dispute a rent increase – but only after it has been enforced.

    Other commitments announced on Wednesday include a ban on rental bidding wars, and a further “ban” on landlords refusing housing benefit claimants or parents as tenants – although this is already illegal.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/labour-ban-landlords-raising-rents-more-once-year/

    "The Government will also legally require landlords and letting agents to publish an “asking rent” for their property, and prevent them from asking for, encouraging, or accepting any bids above this price."

    As someone who offered £50 a month over the asking price to get his current place (essentially to ameliorate likely landlord concerns about self-employment) this one stinks. If everyone offers the same price, the landlord will only ever pick the candidate with the safest job or highest salary. The alternative is forcing the landlord to consider applications in strict order, I suppose.
    That's interesting. I would treat such an offer as a Reg Flag for a possibly dodgy tenant, and if I was advertising in the open market I would not reduce my checks for anyone. I would then base a decision on a rounded evaluation.

    But an LL may get 0 or 5 or 20 or 50 applications within 48 hours, all depending on the property and the market.

    My mum got screwed over badly once by a T who offered to pay 6 months up front. Obviously no rent came in from month 7, and it is the only time I have had to get close to going to court.

    The trend over decades has been to make it more and more difficult to manage a tenancy after signing and move in, and a "won't / can't pay no more no more" can easily take 6 months (with loss of income) to recover the property, then it might be a wreck needing £5k or £25k to sort out.

    So risk management has to be up front.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Talking of hiking, here’s a panorama shot from yesterday. The mountain on the horizon, just left of centre directly above the artificial snow machines, is Mount Wilson, the Coors Light mountain. Bang in the centre is Telluride airport, one of America’s most challenging, built on a sloping ledge with a sheer drop after the end of the runway. Edit/sadly the resolution after uploading to PB isn’t what it might be, for these details…so just enjoy the vista.


    Telluride Airport looks absolutely horrific for anything bigger than a glider tug!

    Definitely no hellish rotor that wants to turn your aircraft upside-down on short final :open_mouth:

    https://static1.simpleflyingimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/5969831874_f568b7729e_k.jpg
    Doesn't look like reaching Vr should be a concern - just go off the end of the runway.... :-)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Only on PB could 'man is taller than woman' be a talking point.

    Next up: dog bites man, pope is catholic, bear shits in woods.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    Remember the PB "golden rule" from 2008 which said that the most accurate poll is the one with Labour lowest? It would have been true at this year's general election as well.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2008/05/05/introducing-the-golden-rule-seat-predictions/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    That linked article says one problem caused is that the supply of hot water to the whole place has been disrupted. I'd never come across hot water being a utility like drinking water, is it common elsewhere?

    Good afternoon, everybody.
    It can be in cold places, a central heating system for a large area rather than installing individual boilers in each building. So instead of gas supply, you have ‘hot water’ supply. New York famously has a steam system that runs through the city, providing heating to thousands of buildings.

    I live in a hot place, and ‘district cooling’ cold water supply is a thing. Water that’s actually 2ºC, as opposed to being at outside temperature, used mostly for air conditioners and cold showers!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,023
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    It's very strange that it collapsed when not under load.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."

    Hmmm...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
    If you are ever in Brooklyn, go to the museum and look at the Albert Bierstadt paintings. They are massive images of an America that virtually nobody knew in the 1860's. Incredibly impressive.

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/1558

    Alternatively, there is this in the Smithsonian - of Sierra Nevada, California.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A?hl=en-GB&ms={"x":0.5,"y":0.5,"z":9.357141401203624,"size":{"width":1.486492202380951,"height":1.2374999999999992}}
    They are. I'm dipping a toe into this atm. I've long had an intention to get a Dylan painting (which he does as a side activity) but the prices of his originals (of any size) seem to have rocketed since I nearly but didn't buy one a few years ago. Used to be low to middle 5 figs (IIRC), now much much higher. Kicking myself a bit. Will probably have to revise down to a 'limited edition' print or a tiny little sketch.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    It's very strange that it collapsed when not under load.
    If they are just running trams over it, the load will be only a tiny percentage of the capability of the bridge. Or should be.

    I'm wondering if weather change (contraction/expansion) triggered the final fall.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,073
    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    That linked article says one problem caused is that the supply of hot water to the whole place has been disrupted. I'd never come across hot water being a utility like drinking water, is it common elsewhere?

    Good afternoon, everybody.
    It can be in cold places, a central heating system for a large area rather than installing individual boilers in each building. So instead of gas supply, you have ‘hot water’ supply. New York famously has a steam system that runs through the city, providing heating to thousands of buildings.

    I live in a hot place, and ‘district cooling’ cold water supply is a thing. Water that’s actually 2ºC, as opposed to being at outside temperature, used mostly for air conditioners and cold showers!
    @Malmesbury , @carnforth @Sandpit

    Thank you all, really interesting.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,535
    MattW said:

    carnforth said:

    Ugh, as an accidental landlord, this new government hates landlords.

    Landlords will only be allowed to raise rents once a year, and to the market rate, under Labour’s rent reforms outlined on Wednesday.

    The Government has said it will “ban” in-tenancy rent increases from being written into contracts in legislation set to come in by next summer.

    Currently, if a landlord wants to raise the rent they can either write it into the contract as a yearly set increase, or issue a Section 13 notice when they want to raise it. A tenant can dispute a rent increase – but only after it has been enforced.

    Other commitments announced on Wednesday include a ban on rental bidding wars, and a further “ban” on landlords refusing housing benefit claimants or parents as tenants – although this is already illegal.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/labour-ban-landlords-raising-rents-more-once-year/

    "The Government will also legally require landlords and letting agents to publish an “asking rent” for their property, and prevent them from asking for, encouraging, or accepting any bids above this price."

    As someone who offered £50 a month over the asking price to get his current place (essentially to ameliorate likely landlord concerns about self-employment) this one stinks. If everyone offers the same price, the landlord will only ever pick the candidate with the safest job or highest salary. The alternative is forcing the landlord to consider applications in strict order, I suppose.
    That's interesting. I would treat such an offer as a Reg Flag for a possibly dodgy tenant, and if I was advertising in the open market I would not reduce my checks for anyone. I would then base a decision on a rounded evaluation.

    But an LL may get 0 or 5 or 20 or 50 applications within 48 hours, all depending on the property and the market.

    My mum got screwed over badly once by a T who offered to pay 6 months up front. Obviously no rent came in from month 7, and it is the only time I have had to get close to going to court.

    The trend over decades has been to make it more and more difficult to manage a tenancy after signing and move in, and a "won't / can't pay no more no more" can easily take 6 months (with loss of income) to recover the property, then it might be a wreck needing £5k or £25k to sort out.

    So risk management has to be up front.
    Interesting.

    After losing several places, I was told by estate agents that my application was good, and that it was amongst the two or three applications sent to the landlord out of the ten or fifteen received - but that they could not control landlords thinking badly of self-employment.

    In all cases, I also offered to pay 12 months rent in advance. This did not seem to impress either estate agents or landlords, to my surprise. One said it was a red flag. One complained it would confuse their accounting.

    The difficulty with self employment is that it covers so many scenarios. My income is actually more secure than an employed person - I can't be fired. But there is no way to distinguish that scenario from someone who is self-employed and precarious.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Talking of hiking, here’s a panorama shot from yesterday. The mountain on the horizon, just left of centre directly above the artificial snow machines, is Mount Wilson, the Coors Light mountain. Bang in the centre is Telluride airport, one of America’s most challenging, built on a sloping ledge with a sheer drop after the end of the runway. Edit/sadly the resolution after uploading to PB isn’t what it might be, for these details…so just enjoy the vista.


    Telluride Airport looks absolutely horrific for anything bigger than a glider tug!

    Definitely no hellish rotor that wants to turn your aircraft upside-down on short final :open_mouth:

    https://static1.simpleflyingimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/5969831874_f568b7729e_k.jpg
    Doesn't look like reaching Vr should be a concern - just go off the end of the runway.... :-)
    Imagine the takeoff briefing.

    “V1 is to be 20kts lower than the computer suggests. In the event of an engine failure, so long as the control surfaces are still operational we shall continue at any speed and use the valley in front of us to gain altitude…” :open_mouth:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,023
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone got a cure for jet lag?

    Wide awake at 4am, again

    Ugh!

    Drink more whisky in the evening.
    Errr... That usually leads to me waking at 4am with a dry throat, palpitations and sweats.

    If you really need to sleep, I recommend just downing two Ambien. You won't wake for about 15 hours, and you'll feel like utter shit.

    (There's also a small risk of death. But hey ho.)

    Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, and have never tried this myself.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."

    Hmmm...
    "Holger Kalbe, Head of the Bridge and Engineering Structures Department at the City of Dresden, suggested that the collapse of part of the Carola Bridge may have been caused by corrosion. During the GDR era, there was a massive influx of chlorides, Kalbe explained. At the point where the bridge section collapsed, there had previously been a transport company mast. It was possible that large quantities of chlorides had penetrated this area and led to corrosion of the reinforcement inside the bridge. The Carola Bridge, a prestressed concrete bridge consisting of three spans, has already been partially renovated. The collapsed third section should be renovated next year."

    https://www.diesachsen.de/en/various-news/carola-bridge-dresden-possible-cause-of-the-collapse-and-history-2954124

    It is a box-girder design, as made famous by such hits as the Cleddau Bridge collapse ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52878053 ) and the Yarra Bridge collapse ( https://artsandculture.google.com/story/disaster-at-west-gate-the-1970-bridge-collapse-public-record-office-victoria-prov/1wWxgHldTRsA8A?hl=en-GB ) - though both of those occurred during construction.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."

    Hmmm...
    "Holger Kalbe, Head of the Bridge and Engineering Structures Department at the City of Dresden, suggested that the collapse of part of the Carola Bridge may have been caused by corrosion. During the GDR era, there was a massive influx of chlorides, Kalbe explained. At the point where the bridge section collapsed, there had previously been a transport company mast. It was possible that large quantities of chlorides had penetrated this area and led to corrosion of the reinforcement inside the bridge. The Carola Bridge, a prestressed concrete bridge consisting of three spans, has already been partially renovated. The collapsed third section should be renovated next year."

    https://www.diesachsen.de/en/various-news/carola-bridge-dresden-possible-cause-of-the-collapse-and-history-2954124

    It is a box-girder design, as made famous by such hits as the Cleddau Bridge collapse ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52878053 ) and the Yarra Bridge collapse ( https://artsandculture.google.com/story/disaster-at-west-gate-the-1970-bridge-collapse-public-record-office-victoria-prov/1wWxgHldTRsA8A?hl=en-GB ) - though both of those occurred during construction.
    Ah, so the middle bit hadn’t been renovated yet. Dare to suggest that they should have done that bit first? That join isn’t stretched, it’s totally failed.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    So, all you super-clever US election analysts, you: did last night's debate change anything in terms of likelihood of the next POTUS.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    TOPPING said:

    So, all you super-clever US election analysts, you: did last night's debate change anything in terms of likelihood of the next POTUS.

    Yes, it will be Harris.

    We knew there would be a clear winner, the moment that Leon said it was going to be a draw.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    edited September 11
    Under-appreciated debate moment: Trump reviving his calls to repeal/replace ACA. Republicans have been trying to walk away from this. Trump himself has been downplaying it all year. Now he says he’s “working on things” and “we're going to replace it.” “I have concepts of a plan.”
    https://x.com/sahilkapur/status/1833865888161763350

    "Concepts of a plan", tbf, has instant meme status, so congrats to the orange one.
    https://x.com/ernietedeschi/status/1833699216037929069
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,296
    TOPPING said:

    So, all you super-clever US election analysts, you: did last night's debate change anything in terms of likelihood of the next POTUS.

    Clearly from the posts on here earlier today Kamala Harris is home and dry.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,460
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."

    Hmmm...
    "Holger Kalbe, Head of the Bridge and Engineering Structures Department at the City of Dresden, suggested that the collapse of part of the Carola Bridge may have been caused by corrosion. During the GDR era, there was a massive influx of chlorides, Kalbe explained. At the point where the bridge section collapsed, there had previously been a transport company mast. It was possible that large quantities of chlorides had penetrated this area and led to corrosion of the reinforcement inside the bridge. The Carola Bridge, a prestressed concrete bridge consisting of three spans, has already been partially renovated. The collapsed third section should be renovated next year."

    https://www.diesachsen.de/en/various-news/carola-bridge-dresden-possible-cause-of-the-collapse-and-history-2954124

    It is a box-girder design, as made famous by such hits as the Cleddau Bridge collapse ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52878053 ) and the Yarra Bridge collapse ( https://artsandculture.google.com/story/disaster-at-west-gate-the-1970-bridge-collapse-public-record-office-victoria-prov/1wWxgHldTRsA8A?hl=en-GB ) - though both of those occurred during construction.
    Ah, so the middle bit hadn’t been renovated yet. Dare to suggest that they should have done that bit first? That join isn’t stretched, it’s totally failed.
    Germany is surprisingly backward in many ways. It will need to seriously reinvent itself to come out of its current spiral of decline.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Whoops. A bridge that had three years of renovations that finished only three years ago. :open_mouth:

    That sounds rather worrying, thankfully it happened in the middle of the night at a very quiet time.
    It's very strange that it collapsed when not under load.
    Indeed. Temperature-related possibly, coldest ambient temp in several months?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Britain has nearly the worst quality homes of any high income country

    NEW analysis today shows that decades of undersupply and underinvestment in housing have left us with the cheapest and lowest-quality buildings of any major Western country.

    https://x.com/yimbyalliance/status/1833789894465913213

    Thread.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."

    Hmmm...
    "Holger Kalbe, Head of the Bridge and Engineering Structures Department at the City of Dresden, suggested that the collapse of part of the Carola Bridge may have been caused by corrosion. During the GDR era, there was a massive influx of chlorides, Kalbe explained. At the point where the bridge section collapsed, there had previously been a transport company mast. It was possible that large quantities of chlorides had penetrated this area and led to corrosion of the reinforcement inside the bridge. The Carola Bridge, a prestressed concrete bridge consisting of three spans, has already been partially renovated. The collapsed third section should be renovated next year."

    https://www.diesachsen.de/en/various-news/carola-bridge-dresden-possible-cause-of-the-collapse-and-history-2954124

    It is a box-girder design, as made famous by such hits as the Cleddau Bridge collapse ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52878053 ) and the Yarra Bridge collapse ( https://artsandculture.google.com/story/disaster-at-west-gate-the-1970-bridge-collapse-public-record-office-victoria-prov/1wWxgHldTRsA8A?hl=en-GB ) - though both of those occurred during construction.
    Ah, so the middle bit hadn’t been renovated yet. Dare to suggest that they should have done that bit first? That join isn’t stretched, it’s totally failed.

    It's a prestressed bridge, not post-stressed (I *hate* the idea of post-stressing structures...), and it appears to have broken in a span, not at a connection - *if* that break was the place it failed.

    (When something like this breaks, you often get a minimum of three main 'breaks' initially - the place it fails, and two other places to form hinges. Other breaks can happen later as more of the structure fails.))
  • Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,912
    edited September 11

    Ugh, as an accidental landlord, this new government hates landlords.

    Landlords will only be allowed to raise rents once a year, and to the market rate, under Labour’s rent reforms outlined on Wednesday.

    The Government has said it will “ban” in-tenancy rent increases from being written into contracts in legislation set to come in by next summer.

    Currently, if a landlord wants to raise the rent they can either write it into the contract as a yearly set increase, or issue a Section 13 notice when they want to raise it. A tenant can dispute a rent increase – but only after it has been enforced.

    Other commitments announced on Wednesday include a ban on rental bidding wars, and a further “ban” on landlords refusing housing benefit claimants or parents as tenants – although this is already illegal.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/labour-ban-landlords-raising-rents-more-once-year/

    I don't see much in this that is problematic. It's a damn sight more sensible than George Osborne's unending f*ckups. Most of it is about an orderly market or tipping the power balance very slightly towards the tenant, in practices that already exist. If it is all like this, I'm more optimistic than I was.

    There's a fair bit of telegrunting in the article, such as their "rents have risen sharply in recent years" claim not noting that this has only matched inflation.

    On these ideas, rents can already only be raised once per year without T agreement (so LL will be prevented from bullying to get a second rise).

    "No annual rent rise in the written agreement" *maybe* puts a pressure on forgetful LLs to be more organised, but then the pressure has been towards more professionalism for 20 years since the Housing Act 2005. That can be seen in the average portfolio size statistics.

    Tenants can already dispute rent increases done by Section 13, so the exclusion of "annual increase" clauses will put all increases through that route.

    The ban on refusing LHA Ts is what already exists in some form - this was one of the things where the LL MP shot his own feet when he said he did it.

    The ban on "rental bidding wars" means LLs have to know slightly what they are doing; competent ones do already. And it reduces screwing-tenants-over opportunities.

    It could have been a lot worse in some circs such as a rising market - eg by limiting in-tenancy increases to CPI.

    The most interesting sentence in the article is this one:

    The National Residential Landlords Association, an industry body, agreed with the proposals.

    Accidental landlords have to worry far more that their exit fee may be about to go from 28% CGT to something more like 35% or 40% CGT. And it's possibly too late already to sell without penalty if any change is immediate, and even if she says "from April 2025" they will be selling into a winter market.

    Full text:
    https://archive.ph/KYkyO
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
    If you are ever in Brooklyn, go to the museum and look at the Albert Bierstadt paintings. They are massive images of an America that virtually nobody knew in the 1860's. Incredibly impressive.

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/1558

    Alternatively, there is this in the Smithsonian - of Sierra Nevada, California.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A?hl=en-GB&ms={"x":0.5,"y":0.5,"z":9.357141401203624,"size":{"width":1.486492202380951,"height":1.2374999999999992}}
    They are. I'm dipping a toe into this atm. I've long had an intention to get a Dylan painting (which he does as a side activity) but the prices of his originals (of any size) seem to have rocketed since I nearly but didn't buy one a few years ago. Used to be low to middle 5 figs (IIRC), now much much higher. Kicking myself a bit. Will probably have to revise down to a 'limited edition' print or a tiny little sketch.
    I still have huge regrets that I didn't have £2,950 to buy a Lucie Rie pot in the early 80's (as an articled clerk my salary was £3,000 a year!). One of her very finest vases with a flared lip with stunning glazes, probably £25,000 now.

    David Attenborough has a huge collection of her work. One of the very few reasons I could find to hate the guy!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Going into the spin room to spin your own performance is not a power move.
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1833709917791797607

    Especially when someone yells "Why couldn't you look at her ?"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    Is it now? This is classic PB Trumpian / PB Never Trump Butter / PB Trump Bedwetter: Trump making a deranged, false, moronic claim is good news for Trump.

    Who knew?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,908
    Trump's latest from Springfield
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1833826081754808363
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,670
    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    "Reconstruction took place between 1967 and 1971. It underwent renovations from 2019 to 2021."

    Hmmm...
    "Holger Kalbe, Head of the Bridge and Engineering Structures Department at the City of Dresden, suggested that the collapse of part of the Carola Bridge may have been caused by corrosion. During the GDR era, there was a massive influx of chlorides, Kalbe explained. At the point where the bridge section collapsed, there had previously been a transport company mast. It was possible that large quantities of chlorides had penetrated this area and led to corrosion of the reinforcement inside the bridge. The Carola Bridge, a prestressed concrete bridge consisting of three spans, has already been partially renovated. The collapsed third section should be renovated next year."

    https://www.diesachsen.de/en/various-news/carola-bridge-dresden-possible-cause-of-the-collapse-and-history-2954124

    It is a box-girder design, as made famous by such hits as the Cleddau Bridge collapse ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52878053 ) and the Yarra Bridge collapse ( https://artsandculture.google.com/story/disaster-at-west-gate-the-1970-bridge-collapse-public-record-office-victoria-prov/1wWxgHldTRsA8A?hl=en-GB ) - though both of those occurred during construction.
    Ah, so the middle bit hadn’t been renovated yet. Dare to suggest that they should have done that bit first? That join isn’t stretched, it’s totally failed.

    What's going on there? All the people in various states of hi-vis I get, but what's with the guy apparently standing nonchalantly with his back to the break, in cycling or running gear?
  • carnforth said:

    Germany: Bridge in Dresden collapses into Elbe river

    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-bridge-in-dresden-collapses-into-elbe-river/a-70185172

    No loss of life, thankfully. "The last tram had traversed the bridge just 18 minutes before the 3:08 am collapse".

    Ha, I’ve walked across it (just after the Albertinum which is a great museum/ gallery). Safe to say it wasn’t one of Dresden’s architectural glories though it’s collapse will fck up their rush hour good and proper.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,906
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone got a cure for jet lag?

    Wide awake at 4am, again

    Ugh!

    Drink more whisky in the evening.
    Errr... That usually leads to me waking at 4am with a dry throat, palpitations and sweats.

    If you really need to sleep, I recommend just downing two Ambien. You won't wake for about 15 hours, and you'll feel like utter shit.

    (There's also a small risk of death. But hey ho.)

    Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, and have never tried this myself.
    The risk there is you may be visited by the Ambien Walrus. The mythical creature who appears while you're "asleep" and causes you to do crazy things - a bit like being blackout drunk.

    I'm fond of a Xanax or two, particularly when travelling long distance, but I'd never mess with the Ambien Walrus.

    https://amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/ambien-walrus
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    I don't think you can spin outright racial slurs, based on lies, like that
    Trump lost his shit last night; there's no spinning that.

    As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    I don't think you can spin outright racial slurs, based on lies, like that
    Trump lost his shit last night; there's no spinning that.

    As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant.
    Indeed there is a transparent element of wishcasting in Renegade's post.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,562
    There's 800,000 polish americans in Penn apparently and Harris deliberately name checked them as she attacked Trump over Ukraine, saying if you give Kviv to Putin as Trump plans then Poland will be next.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    Have we mentioned Alastair Meek's brilliant new video?

    https://x.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1833786433074495939
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, all you super-clever US election analysts, you: did last night's debate change anything in terms of likelihood of the next POTUS.

    Clearly from the posts on here earlier today Kamala Harris is home and dry.
    Not with two months of campaigning to go.
    But last night put her in the boss seat.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    Is it now? This is classic PB Trumpian / PB Never Trump Butter / PB Trump Bedwetter: Trump making a deranged, false, moronic claim is good news for Trump.

    Who knew?
    Yes.

    Trump’s comments ensure that the whole political media is about to turn up in Springfield, OH. A city where the population has risen by 33% in the past four years, composed almost entirely of Haitian immigrants.

    They’ll be interviewing a lot of Springfield residents, all of whom have something to say about the recent population increase, and most of those comments are more likely to be favourable to Trump than the incumbent Border Czar Harris.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,230
    News just popped up

    More firefighters have died from health issues caused by their work on 9/11 than on the day itself..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    eek said:

    News just popped up

    More firefighters have died from health issues caused by their work on 9/11 than on the day itself..

    Jon Stewart in front of Congress talking about the 9/11 first responders

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=_uYpDC3SRpM
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457
    TOPPING said:

    re bears what do they say, if brown bears are fast but can't climb trees so you won't be able to outrun them on your way to the tree; while black bears are slow but can climb trees so when you get to your tree it will climb it and kill you.

    Seen the odd bear (black or brown I'm not sure) on the pistes at Whistler in my time From the safety of a chairlift.

    You don't need to be faster than the bear, you just need to be faster than your walking companion.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    re bears what do they say, if brown bears are fast but can't climb trees so you won't be able to outrun them on your way to the tree; while black bears are slow but can climb trees so when you get to your tree it will climb it and kill you.

    Seen the odd bear (black or brown I'm not sure) on the pistes at Whistler in my time From the safety of a chairlift.

    You don't need to be faster than the bear, you just need to be faster than your walking companion.
    Well indeed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
    If you are ever in Brooklyn, go to the museum and look at the Albert Bierstadt paintings. They are massive images of an America that virtually nobody knew in the 1860's. Incredibly impressive.

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/1558

    Alternatively, there is this in the Smithsonian - of Sierra Nevada, California.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A?hl=en-GB&ms={"x":0.5,"y":0.5,"z":9.357141401203624,"size":{"width":1.486492202380951,"height":1.2374999999999992}}
    They are. I'm dipping a toe into this atm. I've long had an intention to get a Dylan painting (which he does as a side activity) but the prices of his originals (of any size) seem to have rocketed since I nearly but didn't buy one a few years ago. Used to be low to middle 5 figs (IIRC), now much much higher. Kicking myself a bit. Will probably have to revise down to a 'limited edition' print or a tiny little sketch.
    I still have huge regrets that I didn't have £2,950 to buy a Lucie Rie pot in the early 80's (as an articled clerk my salary was £3,000 a year!). One of her very finest vases with a flared lip with stunning glazes, probably £25,000 now.

    David Attenborough has a huge collection of her work. One of the very few reasons I could find to hate the guy!
    Well that would have been a stretch - a year's salary. Can't beat yourself up too much about that. Still, I like the idea of a person of limited means spending 'unwisely' on things like art or clothes. There's a romance there. The romance of the 'prized possession'. If you can afford it easily it's not the same. You have to make more of a conscious effort to value material things if buying them doesn't make a dent.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457

    TOPPING said:

    I remember going straight from Canada (rockies, Lake Louise, Jasper, etc) to Scotland (Mull).

    Very interesting the different landscapes. Scotland was exquisite and powerful and evocative; while in Canada it was the sheer scale that was so impressive, it was just huge and overwhelming.

    As @Leon's picture indicates.

    Mull is a landscape where the amounts of land, sea and sky are in exquisite proportion.

    My most favourite place on the planet. And I've been to 80-odd countries on every continent.
    We have spent time on Mull every year for 30 years now. Recommended.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, all you super-clever US election analysts, you: did last night's debate change anything in terms of likelihood of the next POTUS.

    Clearly from the posts on here earlier today Kamala Harris is home and dry.
    Not with two months of campaigning to go.
    But last night put her in the boss seat.
    Not quite, as Trump sadly is going to win, for as we all know Taylor Swift eats cats, or something.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,290
    Andy_JS said:
    Background is a 2 percent offer (some lower paid staff would get up to 5) at the time when doctors, train drivers etc are getting far bigger rises. The issue for the employer is the fees have not risen even to match inflation. Hence some unis are now favouring overseas students over home.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,919
    edited September 11
    eek said:

    News just popped up

    More firefighters have died from health issues caused by their work on 9/11 than on the day itself..

    The consequences also of Grenfell

    One of our neighbours was one of the first fire officers to arrive and has been pensioned out of the service with severe PTSD

    As our eldest suffered PTSD after attending ground zero in the Christchurch earthquake of 2011 we know just how serious a condition it is, and in discussions with him he said that as a fire officer he had witnessed many horrible and nasty fatalities but nothing prepared him or his colleagues on their arrival at Grenfell

  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Taylor Swift photographed with a cat was perfectly timed. The animal story has to have finished him. He sounded insane. Great day for cats and ladies!

    She even signed her endorsement "childless cat lady" 🤣

    https://x.com/abbydphillip/status/1833703421360198026?t=zVdVrOMdbpc6yJHD5Iz5cg&s=19
    Musk responds by suggesting that he will impregnate Swift:

    "https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1833728804579111268?t=qNchxf2ASs8Vl0nS3HjGKg&s=19

    "Fine Taylor … you win … I will give you a child and guard your cats with my life"

    A bit creepy and non-consensual.
    "A bit"???

    Correction - you mean, "TOTALLY creepy and non-consensual."
  • tlg86 said:

    Not that it matters a great deal, but what do people think about the psychology of handshake last night:

    https://x.com/keithedwards/status/1833681661961122115

    When I saw it this morning, I thought Harris looked weak because she appeared to feel the need to be the one to go to his territory. But maybe she was being assertive and showing that she's in charge?

    I'm not really sure what Team Kamala hoped to achieve. She travelled to him, and it emphasised their size difference. On the other hand, if the idea was to rattle The Donald, maybe it worked.
    In your last sentence above, "maybe" doing WAY toooooo much heavy lifting.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    You can't give a free pass to racist bullshit for fear of offending the people who might be influenced by it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Democrat in Florida Senate race raises over $1M after poll showing dead heat
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4873961-debbie-mucarsel-powell-fundraising/
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    Is it now? This is classic PB Trumpian / PB Never Trump Butter / PB Trump Bedwetter: Trump making a deranged, false, moronic claim is good news for Trump.

    Who knew?
    Yes.

    Trump’s comments ensure that the whole political media is about to turn up in Springfield, OH. A city where the population has risen by 33% in the past four years, composed almost entirely of Haitian immigrants.

    They’ll be interviewing a lot of Springfield residents, all of whom have something to say about the recent population increase, and most of those comments are more likely to be favourable to Trump than the incumbent Border Czar Harris.

    If the Presidential election is going to be fought on whats happening in Springfield then Trump has a strong chance. I did not watch the debate but caught up on X. The pets being eaten comment is the takeaway from the night. Is Trump unhinged or has he hit a home run? I am not sure any of us yet know the answer. Initial videos from X suggest Trump might be onto something.




  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    TOPPING said:

    So, all you super-clever US election analysts, you: did last night's debate change anything in terms of likelihood of the next POTUS.

    Clearly from the posts on here earlier today Kamala Harris is home and dry.
    Not with two months of campaigning to go.
    But last night put her in the boss seat.
    Not quite, as Trump sadly is going to win, for as we all know Taylor Swift eats cats, or something.
    As I said, a lot of time still to change the state of play:

    n case you want to know what a low information voter is like, I just got a text from a friend of mine (who is an ivy league grad and literal medical doctor) asking me, no joke

    "wait why isn't Mike Pence Trump's running mate this time?*

    https://x.com/RiverTamYDN/status/1833673490282529169
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,033
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Taylor Swift photographed with a cat was perfectly timed. The animal story has to have finished him. He sounded insane. Great day for cats and ladies!

    She even signed her endorsement "childless cat lady" 🤣

    https://x.com/abbydphillip/status/1833703421360198026?t=zVdVrOMdbpc6yJHD5Iz5cg&s=19
    Musk responds by suggesting that he will impregnate Swift:

    "https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1833728804579111268?t=qNchxf2ASs8Vl0nS3HjGKg&s=19

    "Fine Taylor … you win … I will give you a child and guard your cats with my life"

    A bit creepy and non-consensual.
    Gaucheness and misogyny fighting like rats in a sack there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Former chair of the RNC.

    MichaelSteele on Trump’s debate performance: “He looked small, he looked withered, he looked beaten, but most importantly, he looked pissed. And there's nothing worse than a pissed bigot on stage with a woman he can't control."
    https://x.com/home
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    I don't think you can spin outright racial slurs, based on lies, like that
    Trump lost his shit last night; there's no spinning that.

    As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant.
    And your last sentence shows exactly what that strategy has a good chance of working:

    "As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant."

    While saying it is spinning, you come out with a slur yourself.

    Have a think how that comes across.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,763
    edited September 11
    Good news for us Trump haters. His media stock which has been dropping a lot since mid July started a mini recovery in the last week. Today it is dropping like a stone. Lost 16% and $3 so far today taking it to $15.5. Still a long way to go until its true value on financial criteria as opposed to being a meme stock. True value is $0.

    I assume the drop is due to yesterday's debate.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    I don't think you can spin outright racial slurs, based on lies, like that
    Trump lost his shit last night; there's no spinning that.

    As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant.
    Indeed there is a transparent element of wishcasting in Renegade's post.
    And there may be a similar amount in your thinking that this is nothing and everyone will concentrate on Harris' brilliant performance and Taylor Swift and her cat.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,687
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
    If you are ever in Brooklyn, go to the museum and look at the Albert Bierstadt paintings. They are massive images of an America that virtually nobody knew in the 1860's. Incredibly impressive.

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/1558

    Alternatively, there is this in the Smithsonian - of Sierra Nevada, California.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A?hl=en-GB&ms={"x":0.5,"y":0.5,"z":9.357141401203624,"size":{"width":1.486492202380951,"height":1.2374999999999992}}
    They are. I'm dipping a toe into this atm. I've long had an intention to get a Dylan painting (which he does as a side activity) but the prices of his originals (of any size) seem to have rocketed since I nearly but didn't buy one a few years ago. Used to be low to middle 5 figs (IIRC), now much much higher. Kicking myself a bit. Will probably have to revise down to a 'limited edition' print or a tiny little sketch.
    I still have huge regrets that I didn't have £2,950 to buy a Lucie Rie pot in the early 80's (as an articled clerk my salary was £3,000 a year!). One of her very finest vases with a flared lip with stunning glazes, probably £25,000 now.

    David Attenborough has a huge collection of her work. One of the very few reasons I could find to hate the guy!
    Well that would have been a stretch - a year's salary. Can't beat yourself up too much about that. Still, I like the idea of a person of limited means spending 'unwisely' on things like art or clothes. There's a romance there. The romance of the 'prized possession'. If you can afford it easily it's not the same. You have to make more of a conscious effort to value material things if buying them doesn't make a dent.
    On my honeymoon in Florida we went to a gallery where there was a very simple painting of a manatee for sale. It was beautiful. It was about £400 (2009 prices), which doesn't sound a lot for art but we couldn't really justify it, particularly when you also have to factor in getting it home. Every time I think of manatees now I regret not buying it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,912
    Listening to two debates.

    The Kamala "light blue touch paper and stand back" strategy seems to be reasonably effective.

    On PMQ I though Sunak was quite effective in his focus on detail, and that Starmer was a little formulaic and should have at least nodded to the questions asked.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,862
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Has anyone got a cure for jet lag?

    Wide awake at 4am, again

    Ugh!

    Drink more whisky in the evening.
    Errr... That usually leads to me waking at 4am with a dry throat, palpitations and sweats.

    If you really need to sleep, I recommend just downing two Ambien. You won't wake for about 15 hours, and you'll feel like utter shit.

    (There's also a small risk of death. But hey ho.)

    Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, and have never tried this myself.
    I personally recommend lavendar tea, lavender being a natural and mild sedative
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,687
    Surprisingly scathing conversation in my lefty public sector office today about how crap SKS is at politics and how crap the next five years are going to be. Particularly striking was the half-heartedness of the defence offered by the actual Labour Party member who offered that it would be just as bad under the Tories. Not worse, just not any different. Surprising how low expectations have sunk.
  • NEW THREAD

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    Is it now? This is classic PB Trumpian / PB Never Trump Butter / PB Trump Bedwetter: Trump making a deranged, false, moronic claim is good news for Trump.

    Who knew?
    Yes.

    Trump’s comments ensure that the whole political media is about to turn up in Springfield, OH. A city where the population has risen by 33% in the past four years, composed almost entirely of Haitian immigrants.

    They’ll be interviewing a lot of Springfield residents, all of whom have something to say about the recent population increase, and most of those comments are more likely to be favourable to Trump than the incumbent Border Czar Harris.

    If the Presidential election is going to be fought on whats happening in Springfield then Trump has a strong chance. I did not watch the debate but caught up on X. The pets being eaten comment is the takeaway from the night. Is Trump unhinged or has he hit a home run? I am not sure any of us yet know the answer. Initial videos from X suggest Trump might be onto something.
    What most people are missing, is that this has been the single biggest story on Conservative Twitter for about three days now.

    While there appears to be little in the way of verifiable stories in Springfield itself, it’s something that’s taken on a life in the town. There are 911 call recordings, and plenty of social media posts, but no arrests or photos.

    Now a bunch of big-city liberals are calling it a racist conspiracy theory, there’s always a chance that certain parts of the story are going to turn out to be true.

    Anyway, the debate is now being fought squarely on Trump’s turf, about the experiences of immigration on small-town America.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    A little travel anecdote to pass the time as I wait to go back to sleep at 5am

    I am in “Manning Park”, en route to the Okanagan Valley, in the Cascade Mountains, BC. Yesterday the hotel receptionist mentioned some “nice lakes” nearby, something I could do to while away an afternoon. I shrugged, thinking: “how good can they be, never heard of Manning Park?”

    In the end, I sighed, but hiked over, and had a look



    Honestly three of the most beautiful hours I’ve ever spent: utterly sublime. And I was basically alone

    Incredible scenery there, well caught in the pic. It's reminding me of an artist who specialized in exactly such landscapes - Bob Ross. Not a great painter but a person with a gift for transmitting knowledge and enthusiasm about the process of painting.
    If you are ever in Brooklyn, go to the museum and look at the Albert Bierstadt paintings. They are massive images of an America that virtually nobody knew in the 1860's. Incredibly impressive.

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/opencollection/objects/1558

    Alternatively, there is this in the Smithsonian - of Sierra Nevada, California.

    https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/among-the-sierra-nevada-california/IQE1CY9y_Rfy5A?hl=en-GB&ms={"x":0.5,"y":0.5,"z":9.357141401203624,"size":{"width":1.486492202380951,"height":1.2374999999999992}}
    They are. I'm dipping a toe into this atm. I've long had an intention to get a Dylan painting (which he does as a side activity) but the prices of his originals (of any size) seem to have rocketed since I nearly but didn't buy one a few years ago. Used to be low to middle 5 figs (IIRC), now much much higher. Kicking myself a bit. Will probably have to revise down to a 'limited edition' print or a tiny little sketch.
    I still have huge regrets that I didn't have £2,950 to buy a Lucie Rie pot in the early 80's (as an articled clerk my salary was £3,000 a year!). One of her very finest vases with a flared lip with stunning glazes, probably £25,000 now.

    David Attenborough has a huge collection of her work. One of the very few reasons I could find to hate the guy!
    Well that would have been a stretch - a year's salary. Can't beat yourself up too much about that. Still, I like the idea of a person of limited means spending 'unwisely' on things like art or clothes. There's a romance there. The romance of the 'prized possession'. If you can afford it easily it's not the same. You have to make more of a conscious effort to value material things if buying them doesn't make a dent.
    On my honeymoon in Florida we went to a gallery where there was a very simple painting of a manatee for sale. It was beautiful. It was about £400 (2009 prices), which doesn't sound a lot for art but we couldn't really justify it, particularly when you also have to factor in getting it home. Every time I think of manatees now I regret not buying it.
    I saw them there in real life at Wakulla Springs this February. Enchanting things.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    For those of you still wondering about the eating pets story. Here is a summary:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cats-ducks-haitians-springfield/ (ignore their editorialising, and look at the facts presented).

    What is a fact is that a woman was arrested for eating a cat on the street, in Ohio. She is an American citizen.
    What is also a fact, is that a man was photographed carrying what looks like a wild bird on the street, in Ohio.

    There was a man who mentioned street people eating cats at a public meeting in Springfield, OH.

    There are some ambiguities regarding exact times and locations (not necessarily Springfield), but the story is not the wild conspiracy theory it’s been made out to be.

    There are also a number of community Facebook posts relating to eating cats, but no photos and no arrest records, so difficult to stand up individual cases.

    That’s a very odd reading of the evidence. The claim is Haitian immigrants are eating pets in Springfield, Ohio. The sole evidence for this claim is a mad woman who isn’t Haitian in a different part of Ohio killed a cat, and there’s a photo of a black guy, also in a different part of Ohio, immigration status unknown, carrying a dead goose, in circumstances unknown. In other words, there is zero evidence that Haitian immigrants are eating pets. It is a wild conspiracy theory.

    And then there are second hand my-friend-said posts on Facebook. The sort of “evidence” that led to rioting recently in the UK.

    It’s not just a wild conspiracy theory, it’s a deeply racist conspiracy theory.
    It may be but remember what Trump often says to his rallies - they are not attacking me, they are really attacking you.

    I think looking to make hay out of the cats and dogs story is running into potentially the same risk. Smart educated people on social media mock Trump for his comments but many in these small towns see it as a mockery of the concerns they have about multiple issues.

    It is the 'basket of the deplorables' argument but in a different way.
    I don't think you can spin outright racial slurs, based on lies, like that
    Trump lost his shit last night; there's no spinning that.

    As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant.
    And your last sentence shows exactly what that strategy has a good chance of working:

    "As it turns out, the cat eating lady seems to have be more hillbilly than immigrant."

    While saying it is spinning, you come out with a slur yourself.

    Have a think how that comes across.
    Direct reference to JD's biography.
    His words, not mine.
This discussion has been closed.