Back to Tebbit, I know I'm not the first to say or think it, but I really don't see the logic of how promising a date for an EU referendum would draw people back to the Cameroon Tories, because Cameron still wants to be in the EU, and they don't. They'll like the opportunity to vote sooner, but won't thank the Cameroons for it.
I also think people over-estimate how important Europe is to UKIP support. Really, this is all about the fact that a great many people feel that the metropolitan elite have taken over the Conservative Party, and that they want something more traditional. UKIP today is Veritas, only with a better leader. Even if Europe were to disappear as an issue, there would still be strong support for a traditional, right-Wing, conservative (with a small 'c') party.
I disagree. While the effect you are talking about is true, I think major pillars of UKIP's attraction are being anti-EU, and anti-mass immigration. If we leave the EU, the first would obviously go, and the major parties would control European immigration. That would be two pillars gone, and UKIP would struggle to go on without them, IMO.
If that's true, why is it that UKIP has done disproportionately better in places with fewer European immigrants, and worse in places with more?
THere aren't too many Europeans in Folkesone as I just saw on Sky. All 3 wards fell to UKIP.
It is full of newly converted Kippers opening their conversations with: "I am not a racist but ..."
@rcs1000 To be fair I think there is some truth in UKIP's claim to be different. Mainly that they're not worried about being politically correct in the way the other three parties are. I imagine this would change should they ever get into national government.
One does wonder if even spinners have their limits though.
You might, I don't. Not that little Ed has covered himself in glory either but purely on where the tories and Cameron stand it's pretty self-evident that this is not a week of good news.
The LD line of moving from a party of protest to one of government is running a bit thin as well, though it was malnourished to begin with. Because of course, having your local councillor base gutted (although this time they didn't do too badly all things considered) is a sign of a party growing up. Apparently. For some reason.
I await the day they purport losing all seats in Scotland as the ultimate sign of maturing as a political party.
Weird thing is, I'm still more minded to vote for them than the alternatives in my area.
Back to Tebbit, I know I'm not the first to say or think it, but I really don't see the logic of how promising a date for an EU referendum would draw people back to the Cameroon Tories, because Cameron still wants to be in the EU, and they don't. They'll like the opportunity to vote sooner, but won't thank the Cameroons for it.
I also think people over-estimate how important Europe is to UKIP support. Really, this is all about the fact that a great many people feel that the metropolitan elite have taken over the Conservative Party, and that they want something more traditional. UKIP today is Veritas, only with a better leader. Even if Europe were to disappear as an issue, there would still be strong support for a traditional, right-Wing, conservative (with a small 'c') party.
I disagree. While the effect you are talking about is true, I think major pillars of UKIP's attraction are being anti-EU, and anti-mass immigration. If we leave the EU, the first would obviously go, and the major parties would control European immigration. That would be two pillars gone, and UKIP would struggle to go on without them, IMO.
If that's true, why is it that UKIP has done disproportionately better in places with fewer European immigrants, and worse in places with more?
Because people that don't like mass immigration move to areas that don't have it?
@rcs1000 To be fair I think there is some truth in UKIP's claim to be different. Mainly that they're not worried about being politically correct in the way the other three parties are. I imagine this would change should they ever get into national government.
That in itself is a big thing because it's partly what makes other politicians all look the same.
@rcs1000 To be fair I think there is some truth in UKIP's claim to be different. Mainly that they're not worried about being politically correct in the way the other three parties are. I imagine this would change should they ever get into national government.
That's a good point. I would also assume that over time, UKIPs policies will mature as they get more scrutiny (not that that happened to the Libs, mind).
Regardless of practical factors Ukips's best weapon is "they're all the same" i.e. the political class is a caste who operate against the public on issues where the different wings of the caste all agree - like the EU. The shenanigans around the Lisbon non-referendum is one of the best examples of that.
I have written in the past about the absurdity of UKIP's energy policies and shan't do so again, beyond saying that no political party can meaningfully reduce the cost of electricity in this country.
I think you can only make that statement on the proviso that you retain the existing energy legislation. It would be a simple matter to avoid the lion's share of the planned energy investment by aiming to use coal (which is cheap at the moment and likely to remain so), and gas, with rapid development of shale gas soon reducing our import parity pricing. Just avoiding the investment in windmills and grid extensions and smart meters etc. would knock a good chunk off the bill. Using cheap coal - still more. And gas would also become cheaper, partly because some would be displaced by coal.
Last week the HoL was moaning that it saw difficulty in raising €1 trillion for uneconomic energy investment in the EU. They're right: if I were running an energy firm, I would be scared witless that the EU would go broke leaving me holding the baby. You have only to see what is happening in Spain on that front. The EU can't afford the subsidies and uncompetitive prices it would entail.
@rcs1000 To be fair I think there is some truth in UKIP's claim to be different. Mainly that they're not worried about being politically correct in the way the other three parties are. I imagine this would change should they ever get into national government.
I think it would have to. My occasional impression is that they revel in their un-PC reputation, which while a wecome change of pace a lot of the time, does mean that they sometimes blurt out idiot things because blurting out un-pc things has become their default position, and there are occasions when the public won't appreciate it.
At present, given the other parties are so incautious and well trained they appear the same as a result, it works more often than not though.
but at the end of the day they are a politicl party like any other
That's the change. You just put your finger on it. In 2010 they could almost (but not quite) be easily dismissed with Cammie's "loonies, fruitcakes and closet racists". Not any more.
The sheer glee with which all the political reporters repeatedly reused Cameron and Clarke's lines was a measure of just how badly Cameron and Osbrowne have miscalculated recently.
Now they are back to spinning "it's a choice between little Ed and Cammie". All well and good except that didn't deliver a majority in 2010 either and it was used then to try and cripple Clegg with the amusing coalition result we now have. Doesn't sound particularly clever to claim it's a two party choice while you are in a coalition with the lib dems but they clearly have no ideas left.
Back to Tebbit, I know I'm not the first to say or think it, but I really don't see the logic of how promising a date for an EU referendum would draw people back to the Cameroon Tories, because Cameron still wants to be in the EU, and they don't. They'll like the opportunity to vote sooner, but won't thank the Cameroons for it.
I also think people over-estimate how important Europe is to UKIP support. Really, this is all about the fact that a great many people feel that the metropolitan elite have taken over the Conservative Party, and that they want something more traditional. UKIP today is Veritas, only with a better leader. Even if Europe were to disappear as an issue, there would still be strong support for a traditional, right-Wing, conservative (with a small 'c') party.
I disagree. While the effect you are talking about is true, I think major pillars of UKIP's attraction are being anti-EU, and anti-mass immigration. If we leave the EU, the first would obviously go, and the major parties would control European immigration. That would be two pillars gone, and UKIP would struggle to go on without them, IMO.
If that's true, why is it that UKIP has done disproportionately better in places with fewer European immigrants, and worse in places with more?
Because people that don't like mass immigration move to areas that don't have it?
But I thought UKIP were doing well with WWC voters (not sure where I heard that in fairness), who probably don't have the wherewithal to move areas simply because they dislike mass immigration.
Back to Tebbit, I know I'm not the first to say or think it, but I really don't see the logic of how promising a date for an EU referendum would draw people back to the Cameroon Tories, because Cameron still wants to be in the EU, and they don't. They'll like the opportunity to vote sooner, but won't thank the Cameroons for it.
I also think people over-estimate how important Europe is to UKIP support. Really, this is all about the fact that a great many people feel that the metropolitan elite have taken over the Conservative Party, and that they want something more traditional. UKIP today is Veritas, only with a better leader. Even if Europe were to disappear as an issue, there would still be strong support for a traditional, right-Wing, conservative (with a small 'c') party.
I disagree. While the effect you are talking about is true, I think major pillars of UKIP's attraction are being anti-EU, and anti-mass immigration. If we leave the EU, the first would obviously go, and the major parties would control European immigration. That would be two pillars gone, and UKIP would struggle to go on without them, IMO.
If that's true, why is it that UKIP has done disproportionately better in places with fewer European immigrants, and worse in places with more?
Because people that don't like mass immigration move to areas that don't have it?
But I thought UKIP were doing well with WWC voters (not sure where I heard that in fairness), who probably don't have the wherewithal to move areas simply because they dislike mass immigration.
Are you mad? It been near perfect as the PBtory spinners will no doubt tell you.
One does wonder if even spinners have their limits though.
Give them an over before lunch to try to break a partnership or see if the ball turns... If so, a long spell may ensue until the next new ball is taken.
The LD line of moving from a party of protest to one of government is running a bit thin as well, though it was malnourished to begin with.
Correct. Clegg knew austerity and cuts were coming and if he didn't he should have been booted out long ago. It's how you handle it and which priorities you choose.
Because of course, having your local councillor base gutted (although this time they didn't do too badly all things considered) is a sign of a party growing up. Apparently. For some reason.
You put your finger on it again. That's the clincher. Clegg's toxic but there is a blatantly obvious and fairly quick solution to that. Rebuilding a hammered base takes years and it the more it get's hammered the longer it will take.
Weird thing is, I'm still more minded to vote for them than the alternatives in my area.
If you're well served locally by them I wouldn't consider it that weird. The smarter lib dems at a local level will try to make it clear Clegg isn't their fault and that the coalition will end. As indeed will Clegg's time as leader at some point. I'm still inclined to think it's going to be before the election whether Clegg wants to or not. Finishing behind the BNP in South Shields should finally wake up some of those around Clegg to just how bad things are.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his brother for his political life.
Am I the only person who thinks better of Ed M for taking on his brother for the leadership I wonder?
Probably.
If he thought he was the better candidate for leader, being too meek to say so would have been a failing, not a plus. He took a hard choice to, nominally, put party and country before family by saying he did think he would make a better choice than his big brother. Given how he must have known how his opponents would use that against him, it takes courage and determination to do that.
None of this speaks to his actual worth on policy or as leadership material, but it is at least a small point in his favour I think. As UKIP might say, he has balls at least.
Are you mad? It been near perfect as the PBtory spinners will no doubt tell you.
One does wonder if even spinners have their limits though.
Give them an over before lunch to try to break a partnership or see if the ball turns... If so, a long spell may ensue until the next new ball is taken.
Bravo sir, expertly done (there's no like button at present)
I think there should be an anti UKIP movement because UKIP has set back the cause of fairness by about 40 years.
Having listened to some UKIP voters on the radio it seems that they are in favour of Secondary Modern Schools, because that's is what bringing back Grammar Schools implies
Furthermore they are anti-Europe anti-immigration and pro-English Nationalism. In other words they are the BNP in suits.They also seem to be the Daily Mail readers incarnate, non graduates and older, and many live in towns which are on the margins of England.
Nigel Farage may be affable but he lacks the coherence which national leadership demands.UKIP members are not clowns, they are dinosaurs who should be extinct in the 21st Century.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his brother for his political life.
Am I the only person who thinks better of Ed M for taking on his brother for the leadership I wonder?
Probably.
If he thought he was the better candidate for leader, being too meek to say so would have been a failing, not a plus. He took a hard choice to, nominally, put party and country before family by saying he did think he would make a better choice than his big brother. Given how he must have known how his opponents would use that against him, it takes courage and determination to do that.
None of this speaks to his actual worth on policy or as leadership material, but it is at least a small point in his favour I think. As UKIP might say, he has balls at least.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his brother for his political life.
Am I the only person who thinks better of Ed M for taking on his brother for the leadership I wonder?
Probably.
If he thought he was the better candidate for leader, being too meek to say so would have been a failing, not a plus. He took a hard choice to, nominally, put party and country before family by saying he did think he would make a better choice than his big brother. Given how he must have known how his opponents would use that against him, it takes courage and determination to do that.
None of this speaks to his actual worth on policy or as leadership material, but it is at least a small point in his favour I think. As UKIP might say, he has balls at least.
I doubt having Balls is an advantage, kle4.
True enough. I find him to be the Osborne of the Labour party. Eh, maybe it's just because they both talk finances, and I'm inclined to dislike that.
What's fascinating is that, regardless of policy strengths of weakness, I find each terrible at presentation for completely different reasons.
I see Surbiton is making his usual unintelligible uninformed noises.
Folkestone is 10 miles from Dover which happens to be one of the main gateways for European freight traffic coming into this country.That freight traffic travels right past Folkestone where the M20 starts is no doubt one of the locals greatest frustrations particularly given the danger many of these lorries provide. It is indeed the first stop for foreign traffic coming from Dover. That part of the M20 is also the carpark for Operation Stack everytime French dockers/ ferry workers etc etc go on strike. Access to and from the town is heavily impinged upon duringg such times. The volumes of European through traffic cannot be fathomed unless you live in the area, It is also the freight terminus for the Euro Rail services and it is also a ferry port in its own right. As a result it is on the front line of legal and illegal immigration from the French ferry ports. It is also surrounded by agricultural areas. How big the influx of European farm workers into the are is unclear. It won't be as big as that in Lincolnshire /Norfolk but I doubt it is insignificant.
That just about every Kent coastal town from Romney in the south Kent coast to Sheppey on the north Kent coast threw out the incumbent Tory councillors replacing them with either UKIP or Labour (in Dover and Deals case although largely because UKIP split the right of centre vote) is in no small part I suspect down to its proximity to Europe and the locals concerns about immigration and the influence of EU. They are after all on the front line......
I think there should be an anti UKIP movement because UKIP has set back the cause of fairness by about 40 years.
Having listened to some UKIP voters on the radio it seems that they are in favour of Secondary Modern Schools, because that's is what bringing back Grammar Schools implies
Furthermore they are anti-Europe anti-immigration and pro-English Nationalism. In other words they are the BNP in suits.They also seem to be the Daily Mail readers incarnate, non graduates and older, and many live in towns which are on the margins of England.
Nigel Farage may be affable but he lacks the coherence which national leadership demands.UKIP members are not clowns, they are dinosaurs who should be extinct in the 21st Century.
Define "fairness". I'm all for "fairness" in the sense of equality of opportunity in so far as is practicable, but equality of outcome in life is a non starter, as you remove incentive.
I'm afraid bandying about "fairness" needs a tad more context IMO .
"Ed beat David fair and square according to the rules of the Labour Party."
And it's a decision which I believe will cost Labour an election which they really should win. I thought for a while he may come good but he hasn't. He's just not a leader and he should have been astute enough to realize that.
@roserees64 The biggest load of rubbish, printed about UKIP, of the day. You are obviously either a dyed in the wool communist, trotskyite, or far gone militant labour or, or are you socialist workers party?
"Ed beat David fair and square according to the rules of the Labour Party."
And it's a decision which I believe will cost Labour an election which they really should win. I thought for a while he may come good but he hasn't. He's just not a leader and he should have been astute enough to realize that.
That might have been asking a bit much from anyone really, especially in his position. Good university, straight into politics, trusted with a safe seat and promoted rapidly at a young age - who wouldn't think themselves leadership material after that?
Although quite why Cameron gets derided for thinking himself born to rule when to my mind Ed M and co appear as equally certain of that about themselves, I don't know, although possibly he gets more stick for it because he's posher. And he went to Eton, which may have been mentioned at some point since he became leader.
I think there should be an anti UKIP movement because UKIP has set back the cause of fairness by about 40 years.
Well don't just sit there suggesting it why don't you start it yourself? This is a liberal democracy where freedom of speech is encouraged. I'm sure UKIP supporters would welcome your insightful intellectual analysis......
Having listened to some UKIP voters on the radio it seems that they are in favour of Secondary Modern Schools, because that's is what bringing back Grammar Schools implies
I'm no expert on UKIP education policy, but I'd be surprised if they viewed Grammars (which they clearly support, and which did provide a good education for bright children from poor backgrounds) as implying Secondary Moderns, which I think everyone agrees were a disaster.
I took a bet with Sam today that UKIP would not win the white Londoner vote The white Flighters need to calm down
Remember UKIP + BNP polled the same in 2009 as UKIP are now
Last time I was in London, the range of languages spoken by ethnic whites was pretty broad. I certainly recognised several European languages, and several more Slav ones - with a good smattering of foreign Anglosphere accents thrown in.
The complainant's husband was dying of cancer, which he had been battling for five years. He start muscle spasms and needed an injection which "could only be administered by a qualified nurse".
She spent half an hour on the phone after dialling 111. She reports a poor response, which is quite probably true, but the real question to be asked is why she called 111 in the first place. Surely the service is not there to deal with the circumstances described.
I cannot comment on the details of the case, but as the article states, concern has been expressed at the 111 line from a number of directions, including Dr Gerada the President of the GP's. In Leicester the implementation was deferred, so I have no direct experience.
I think the issue Tories have with Cameron is that he surrounds himself with people of the same background, not that his background is key to his ability.
I'm sure that is certainly part of it, but surrounding oneself with people like yourself doesn't fit the 'born-to-rule' complaint, especially as most do it, unless there wasn't also some reverse snobbery at work by implying he thinks himself better able to rule because of his class and upbringing, rather than just thinking himself better able to rule (which all do, or else they wouldn't put themselves forward to the public as the best choice to rule).
Define "fairness". I'm all for "fairness" in the sense of equality of opportunity in so far as is practicable, but equality of outcome in life is a non starter, as you remove incentive.
I'm afraid bandying about "fairness" needs a tad more context IMO .
Fairness is in the eye of the recipient. One person's fairness is generally the next person's injustice.
In a political sense I believe that 'Fairness' is the left's latest buzzword for 'Doing everything that the left tells you and doing everything for the left's benefit'
I think the issue Tories have with Cameron is that he surrounds himself with people of the same background, not that his background is key to his ability.
What I love about the "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" comment is the way in which Nick Ferrrari got Cameron to drop his guard as if he were back at his Notting Hill dining table among friends. There is a pause and then in an almost conspiratorial tone, Cameron fires off the attack.
If only he would let down his guard more often, He would be far more eloquent and entertaining. And it might just stop him calling everything "incredible" too.
I took a bet with Sam today that UKIP would not win the white Londoner vote The white Flighters need to calm down
Remember UKIP + BNP polled the same in 2009 as UKIP are now
Last time I was in London, the range of languages spoken by ethnic whites was pretty broad. I certainly recognised several European languages, and several more Slav ones - with a good smattering of foreign Anglosphere accents thrown in.
And the same thing is happening in London that happened in New York 100 years ago.
Any insight into why Labour didn't do too well in those westminster seats in London and the West Midlands with higher % White British at GE 2010? (graphs already posted)
I see Surbiton is making his usual unintelligible uninformed noises.
Folkestone is 10 miles from Dover which happens to be one of the main gateways for European freight traffic coming into this country.That freight traffic travels right past Folkestone where the M20 starts is no doubt one of the locals greatest frustrations particularly given the danger many of these lorries provide. It is indeed the first stop for foreign traffic coming from Dover. That part of the M20 is also the carpark for Operation Stack everytime French dockers/ ferry workers etc etc go on strike. Access to and from the town is heavily impinged upon duringg such times. The volumes of European through traffic cannot be fathomed unless you live in the area, It is also the freight terminus for the Euro Rail services and it is also a ferry port in its own right. As a result it is on the front line of legal and illegal immigration from the French ferry ports. It is also surrounded by agricultural areas. How big the influx of European farm workers into the are is unclear. It won't be as big as that in Lincolnshire /Norfolk but I doubt it is insignificant.
That just about every Kent coastal town from Romney in the south Kent coast to Sheppey on the north Kent coast threw out the incumbent Tory councillors replacing them with either UKIP or Labour (in Dover and Deals case although largely because UKIP split the right of centre vote) is in no small part I suspect down to its proximity to Europe and the locals concerns about immigration and the influence of EU. They are after all on the front line......
So you are saying that the Tories should bang on about Europe and immigrants more. Please do.
The complainant's husband was dying of cancer, which he had been battling for five years. He start muscle spasms and needed an injection which "could only be administered by a qualified nurse".
She spent half an hour on the phone after dialling 111. She reports a poor response, which is quite probably true, but the real question to be asked is why she called 111 in the first place. Surely the service is not there to deal with the circumstances described.
I cannot comment on the details of the case, but as the article states, concern has been expressed at the 111 line from a number of directions, including Dr Gerada the President of the GP's. In Leicester the implementation was deferred, so I have no direct experience.
It is that story.
You are beginning to sound like a politician, Dr. Sox!
Schools need a minimum level of discipline to function. That discipline can come from the kids themselves or be imposed by the school. Kids in leafy areas bring in more self-discipline than kids from wuff areas. ergo schools in wuff areas need more imposed discipline than schools in leafy areas
Hippy educationalists thought different hence the collapse of the education system in wuff areas starting as far back as the 70s
This was partially compensated for by the armed forces providing a shouting-based basic education and trade school for boisterous boys which was muffed up by civilianization i.e. transport corps, catering corps etc.
So good education spin 1) grammars - don't care about that personally but obviously some people do 2) more discipline in schools (would require big war with education establishment to actually implement of course) 3) killing two birds with one stone by using the defense budget partly as a shouting-based trade school
THE UKIP treasurer says its leadership would rather deal with Boris Johnson than with David Cameron in the run-up to the next election.
Stuart Wheeler, the multimillionaire former Tory donor, said it was “much more likely” that his party could work with the mayor of London than the prime minister on a potential pact in certain constituencies in the 2015 general election.
Nigel Farage’s party does not trust Cameron to deliver a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU and believes Johnson is a truer Eurosceptic.
“If Boris Johnson’s policies were acceptable, which I think on the whole they would be, I would be happy to do that [a deal],” Wheeler said. He suggested that if Johnson became Tory leader, there would be significant potential for talks between the two parties. UKIP insiders indicated last night that Farage shared Wheeler’s view.
I took a bet with Sam today that UKIP would not win the white Londoner vote The white Flighters need to calm down
Remember UKIP + BNP polled the same in 2009 as UKIP are now
Last time I was in London, the range of languages spoken by ethnic whites was pretty broad. I certainly recognised several European languages, and several more Slav ones - with a good smattering of foreign Anglosphere accents thrown in.
And the same thing is happening in London that happened in New York 100 years ago.
Having listened to some UKIP voters on the radio it seems that they are in favour of Secondary Modern Schools, because that's is what bringing back Grammar Schools implies
I'm no expert on UKIP education policy, but I'd be surprised if they viewed Grammars (which they clearly support, and which did provide a good education for bright children from poor backgrounds) as implying Secondary Moderns, which I think everyone agrees were a disaster.
Having listened to some UKIP voters on the radio it seems that they are in favour of Secondary Modern Schools, because that's is what bringing back Grammar Schools implies
I'm no expert on UKIP education policy, but I'd be surprised if they viewed Grammars (which they clearly support, and which did provide a good education for bright children from poor backgrounds) as implying Secondary Moderns, which I think everyone agrees were a disaster.
If there are selective schools in an area, then the other schools become secondary moderns, in fact if not in name. They are automatically not comprehensives.
YouGov’s latest poll for The Sunday Times offers a glimmer of hope. The feelgood factor is improving. This weekend, for the first time since Cameron became prime minister, more than half the public expect to be at least as well off in a year’s time as they are today. Earlier in the coalition’s life the pessimists outnumbered by two to one the combined ranks of optimists and those who expected things to remain much the same.
The complainant's husband was dying of cancer, which he had been battling for five years. He start muscle spasms and needed an injection which "could only be administered by a qualified nurse".
She spent half an hour on the phone after dialling 111. She reports a poor response, which is quite probably true, but the real question to be asked is why she called 111 in the first place. Surely the service is not there to deal with the circumstances described.
I cannot comment on the details of the case, but as the article states, concern has been expressed at the 111 line from a number of directions, including Dr Gerada the President of the GP's. In Leicester the implementation was deferred, so I have no direct experience.
It is that story.
You are beginning to sound like a politician, Dr. Sox!
"Ed beat David fair and square according to the rules of the Labour Party."
And it's a decision which I believe will cost Labour an election which they really should win. I thought for a while he may come good but he hasn't. He's just not a leader and he should have been astute enough to realize that.
The Lib Dems must forget any notions of mounting a full nationwide campaign in 2015. Instead they must concentrate on the seats they hold and on minimising their losses. There were signs in last week’s elections that their vote had held up better where it mattered most.
YouGov’s latest poll for The Sunday Times offers a glimmer of hope. The feelgood factor is improving. This weekend, for the first time since Cameron became prime minister, more than half the public expect to be at least as well off in a year’s time as they are today. Earlier in the coalition’s life the pessimists outnumbered by two to one the combined ranks of optimists and those who expected things to remain much the same.
Cameron won't get any credit for that. This far into a recession I think most people would generally expect to finally start seeing a recovery regardless of what was happening, and considering Osborne, no one is likely to think it is happening thanks to him and his comrades.
The Tories need a leader from an ordinary background but I don't think they're likely to have one in the future because the party has a dearth of talent from that source due to lack of numbers. The last chance was probably with David Davis but he's 65 now. And Theresa May is a bit too abrasive.
I think the issue Tories have with Cameron is that he surrounds himself with people of the same background, not that his background is key to his ability.
I'm sure that is certainly part of it, but surrounding oneself with people like yourself doesn't fit the 'born-to-rule' complaint, especially as most do it, unless there wasn't also some reverse snobbery at work by implying he thinks himself better able to rule because of his class and upbringing, rather than just thinking himself better able to rule (which all do, or else they wouldn't put themselves forward to the public as the best choice to rule).
It's even more nuanced than that. Cameron's problem is manifold. Yes he's an aspiring toff with an even posher wife, who clearly prefers toffs as colleagues. Yes, he seems to believe that toffs are just *better* at governing, or at least he fatally gives that impression.
But his real sin is worse. Fairly obviously, and very sincerely, Cameron dislikes and despises large sections of the traditional Tory party, from working class white Tories to conservatives in the shires, and he would far rather hang out with Helena Bonham Carter than any average Tory activist or MP, or indeed any average human: he's a quintessential metropolitan poseur.
This is the *issue* with David Cameron. In this, he resembles Tony Blair, and Blair's relationship to Labour. With the significant difference that Tony Blair was electorally very successful.
But Sean, calling kippers "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" doesn't mean you despise them any more than the rhetorical abuse you throw at opponents on PB demonstrates hatred.
Ironic and satirical detachment is all that is required. I am sure Hogarth and Swift loved their subjects,
Selective education always exists. The only difference is whether it's based on wealth or ability.
Before grammar schools were abolished, it was based on ability. Now it's based on whether you can afford it or not. You can either pay for it directly, or indirectly by buying a house in the catchment area of a top school.
THE UKIP treasurer says its leadership would rather deal with Boris Johnson than with David Cameron in the run-up to the next election.
Stuart Wheeler, the multimillionaire former Tory donor, said it was “much more likely” that his party could work with the mayor of London than the prime minister on a potential pact in certain constituencies in the 2015 general election.
Nigel Farage’s party does not trust Cameron to deliver a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU and believes Johnson is a truer Eurosceptic.
“If Boris Johnson’s policies were acceptable, which I think on the whole they would be, I would be happy to do that [a deal],” Wheeler said. He suggested that if Johnson became Tory leader, there would be significant potential for talks between the two parties. UKIP insiders indicated last night that Farage shared Wheeler’s view.
The Lib Dems must forget any notions of mounting a full nationwide campaign in 2015. Instead they must concentrate on the seats they hold and on minimising their losses. There were signs in last week’s elections that their vote had held up better where it mattered most.
Nick Robinson reported that no LD MPs visited the South Shields by-election. I assume they were all working their constituencies in the locals. So they're already on board with the "all hands repel borders" strategy.
"The Lib Dems must forget any notions of mounting a full nationwide campaign in 2015. Instead they must concentrate on the seats they hold and on minimising their losses. There were signs in last week’s elections that their vote had held up better where it mattered most."
Yes, in my patch they only lost a few, but just over the border in Wiltshire the LDs actually increased their seat numbers on 2009 (which had been even lower due to defections since then) despite a loss to UKIP (the only one in the county) and what was according to Wiki about a 50% drop in total votes (partly down to fewer candidates standing I think). The Chippenham bloke will need to count on that resilience for one, and it could prevent a total meltdown for them at GE.
That they may as well save their precious funds and not stand anywhere in Scotland where they do not have an incumbent, and the same for Northern England, in order to not lose their deposits, is deeply sad for a party with dreams of nationwide significance though.
There's little point in throwing everything at a seat you have no chance of winning, but it'd be nice to at least place well, and have dreams of one day winning it.
YouGov’s latest poll for The Sunday Times offers a glimmer of hope. The feelgood factor is improving. This weekend, for the first time since Cameron became prime minister, more than half the public expect to be at least as well off in a year’s time as they are today. Earlier in the coalition’s life the pessimists outnumbered by two to one the combined ranks of optimists and those who expected things to remain much the same.
Cameron won't get any credit for that. This far into a recession I think most people would generally expect to finally start seeing a recovery regardless of what was happening, and considering Osborne, no one is likely to think it is happening thanks to him and his comrades.
Except Avery.
Consumer confidence always lags early economic indicators, and is not always driven by quantitative progress.
On standard of living, no one is promising that this will improve significantly during this government, The Bank of England has consistently stated that real standards of living will fall over a decade from the financial crisis and reach a fall of up to 20% before starting to recover
What you need to explain with the current recovery is why the UK economy is growing faster than expectations at a time when the Eurozone is in deepening recession and the growth forecasts for China, Japan and the US are all being cut back.
Of course, it can't be anything to do with Osborne.
Selective education always exists. The only difference is whether it's based on wealth or ability.
Before grammar schools were abolished, it was based on ability. Now it's based on whether you can afford it or not. You can either pay for it directly, or indirectly by buying a house in the catchment area of a top school.
And the staggering thing about Londons improvement is that kids on free school meals outperform kids not on free school meals outside London
YouGov’s latest poll for The Sunday Times offers a glimmer of hope. The feelgood factor is improving. This weekend, for the first time since Cameron became prime minister, more than half the public expect to be at least as well off in a year’s time as they are today.
I'm not quite clear whether Kellner fears a Labour government or the rise of UKIP that he should now show support for Cameron.
I think the issue Tories have with Cameron is that he surrounds himself with people of the same background, not that his background is key to his ability.
I'm sure that is certainly part of it, but surrounding oneself with people like yourself doesn't fit the 'born-to-rule' complaint, especially as most do it, unless there wasn't also some reverse snobbery at work by implying he thinks himself better able to rule because of his class and upbringing, rather than just thinking himself better able to rule (which all do, or else they wouldn't put themselves forward to the public as the best choice to rule).
It's even more nuanced than that. Cameron's problem is manifold. Yes he's an aspiring toff with an even posher wife, who clearly prefers toffs as colleagues. Yes, he seems to believe that toffs are just *better* at governing, or at least he fatally gives that impression.
But his real sin is worse. Fairly obviously, and very sincerely, Cameron dislikes and despises large sections of the traditional Tory party, from working class white Tories to conservatives in the shires, and he would far rather hang out with Helena Bonham Carter than any average Tory activist or MP, or indeed any average human: he's a quintessential metropolitan poseur.
This is the *issue* with David Cameron. In this, he resembles Tony Blair, and Blair's relationship to Labour. With the significant difference that Tony Blair was electorally very successful.
Well they say clones degrade over each generation......
The Lib Dems must forget any notions of mounting a full nationwide campaign in 2015. Instead they must concentrate on the seats they hold and on minimising their losses. There were signs in last week’s elections that their vote had held up better where it mattered most.
Nick Robinson reported that no LD MPs visited the South Shields by-election. I assume they were all working their constituencies in the locals. So they're already on board with "all hands repel borders" strategy.
MPs from urban areas, Scotland and Wales do not have that excuse do they?
YouGov’s latest poll for The Sunday Times offers a glimmer of hope. The feelgood factor is improving. This weekend, for the first time since Cameron became prime minister, more than half the public expect to be at least as well off in a year’s time as they are today. Earlier in the coalition’s life the pessimists outnumbered by two to one the combined ranks of optimists and those who expected things to remain much the same.
Cameron won't get any credit for that. This far into a recession I think most people would generally expect to finally start seeing a recovery regardless of what was happening, and considering Osborne, no one is likely to think it is happening thanks to him and his comrades.
Except Avery.
Consumer confidence always lags early economic indicators, and is not always driven by quantitative progress.
On standard of living, no one is promising that this will improve significantly during this government, The Bank of England has consistently stated that real standards of living will fall over a decade from the financial crisis and reach a fall of up to 20% before starting to recover
What you need to explain with the current recovery is how the UK economy is growing faster than expectations at a time when the Eurozone is in deepening recession and the growth forecasts for China, Japan and the US are all being cut back.
Of course, it can't be anything to do with Osborne.
I will freely admit I do not understand economics, so for all I know it really is down to Osborne. What I do know is you will not convince the majority of the public of that, because he's developed an aura of incompetence such that even when he does a good job, any praise will be begrudging or put down to coincidence, or that he did well, but someone else would have done much better (an similar example would be the grief Cameron got for not getting a majority, even though he did gain a huge number of MPs and ended up PM)
On standard of living, no one is promising that this will improve significantly during this government, The Bank of England has consistently stated that real standards of living will fall over a decade from the financial crisis and reach a fall of up to 20% before starting to recover
And what will they predict the fall will be next year I wonder.
Have we shifted the deficit elimination target from 2018 to 2020 yet? I managed to predict the shift from 2017 to 2018 after they first pushed back the target due to lower than expected growth, so await the next revision.
What you need to explain with the current recovery is how the UK economy is growing faster than expectations Even not understanding economics this phrase makes me suspicious though. Faster than whose expections? And when were they made? Expectations are easier to meet faster than, well, expected, when you have revised them downwards consistently for years (justifiably or not).
If I predicted 50 LD seat losses in the locals a year ago, and then 500 losses a week ago, it would clearly have been a very positive sign that the real loss ended up being so much better than my expectations, wouldn't it?
Selective education always exists. The only difference is whether it's based on wealth or ability.
Before grammar schools were abolished, it was based on ability. Now it's based on whether you can afford it or not. You can either pay for it directly, or indirectly by buying a house in the catchment area of a top school.
I know that both Tories and Labour wrought havoc with Grammer School netrwork but there are at least 4 areas where they still exist in England. Lincolnshire, Kent, Bucks & Trafford
Had lunch with lefty friends. I can report complete perplexity, bordering anger, at the rise of UKIP. They simply don't understand it.
It does not compute. They expected any major protest vote to go Left. Heh.
They also mistrust Ed Miliband, and hanker after David. And they have no fecking clue about economics.
Always been interested to know this Sean. When you have lunch/dinner with your lefty friends do you get as angry with them as you do with Roger, Tim and Nick Palmer at times?
Have you ever launched into a SeanT rant, PB style, over a spaghetti bolognase?
What's wrong with English nationalism? If Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalism are okay, I can't see what the problem with the English variety is.
Personally I think nationalism of all kinds is unpleasant, but especially in large countries able to throw their weight about (Andorran nationalism might be rather endearing). But people understand different things by the term - I think of it as meaning "Favour the interests of your own nation over others, regardless of justification or fairness", but others mean "Take pride in your country's traditions while wishing no harm to others", which I'd be fine with. The tendency of aggressive far-right movements, past and present, to kidnap the term messes up the discussion.
Selective education always exists. The only difference is whether it's based on wealth or ability.
Before grammar schools were abolished, it was based on ability. Now it's based on whether you can afford it or not. You can either pay for it directly, or indirectly by buying a house in the catchment area of a top school.
And the staggering thing about Londons improvement is that kids on free school meals outperform kids not on free school meals outside London
That has to be down to the staggering increase in London house prices...
The Tories need a leader from an ordinary background but I don't think they're likely to have one in the future because the party has a dearth of talent from that source due to lack of numbers. The last chance was probably with David Davis but he's 65 now. And Theresa May is a bit too abrasive.
A Tory party led by a plausible, persuasive working class leader - with all the present Tory policies intact and unchanged - would romp home to a fairly easy victory against Ed Miliband and Ed Balls.
On the other hand, a Labour party led by a plausible persuasive man or woman not called Ed would probably thrash the present Tory party.
It is intriguing that both major parties have crippled themselves with flawed and feeble leadership at precisely the same time. Maybe it is a generational thing? Maybe this generation of politicians, of all stripes, is just a bit shit?
As a youngish person bitter at future prospects, maybe the problem is the entire generation is shit?
Sorry over 40s.
And with that nonserious parting shot, a good night to all.
Eddy Poll, the Tory deputy leader of Lincolnshire council, admits in the article to helping to deliver leaflets for his friend Richard Fairman who happened to be UKIP candidate in his seat of Spalding East.
“We could get 100 seats at the next general election.”
I guess Farage will be playing the cautious optimism to Wheeler's insane expectations strategy. Good call, Can't have the leader make the most bold prediction.
It's even more nuanced than that. Cameron's problem is manifold. Yes he's an aspiring toff with an even posher wife, who clearly prefers toffs as colleagues. Yes, he seems to believe that toffs are just *better* at governing, or at least he fatally gives that impression.
But his real sin is worse. Fairly obviously, and very sincerely, Cameron dislikes and despises large sections of the traditional Tory party, from working class white Tories to conservatives in the shires, and he would far rather hang out with Helena Bonham Carter than any average Tory activist or MP, or indeed any average human: he's a quintessential metropolitan poseur.
Cameron would be much better if he were a proper toff. Such people tend not to need that kind of support, and might actually know something of the lives of the people who live on the estate.
Had lunch with lefty friends. I can report complete perplexity, bordering anger, at the rise of UKIP. They simply don't understand it.
It does not compute. They expected any major protest vote to go Left. Heh.
They also mistrust Ed Miliband, and hanker after David. And they have no fecking clue about economics.
Always been interested to know this Sean. When you have lunch/dinner with your lefty friends do you get as angry with them as you do with Roger, Tim and Nick Palmer at times?
Have you ever launched into a SeanT rant, PB style, over a spaghetti bolognase?
Do you imagine, GIN, that the personas posters here portray are exactly the same as in real life?
This famous New Yorker cartoon reflects the reality rather more closely, I suspect.
The Lib Dems must forget any notions of mounting a full nationwide campaign in 2015. Instead they must concentrate on the seats they hold and on minimising their losses. There were signs in last week’s elections that their vote had held up better where it mattered most.
Nick Robinson reported that no LD MPs visited the South Shields by-election. I assume they were all working their constituencies in the locals. So they're already on board with "all hands repel borders" strategy.
MPs from urban areas, Scotland and Wales do not have that excuse do they?
Fair point. Still, looks like Mr Kellner's right. LDs are putting 100% effort into defense.
EDIT Which would help UKIP in a Ribble Valley by-election.
The Sunday Times have done extensive pieces on the YouGov polling, but in 6 different articles not once have they mentioned the VI.
It's presumably a 10ish lead because the "preferred government" question gives a 45-35 edge to Labour-led. But if there was a huge UKIP bounce as one would expect after all the coverage, you'd think it'd be a story.
My theory, pace SeanT, is that there is nothing remarkable about the populist right movement getting 10-15% in polls - there is a latent 10% or so who quite fancy each extreme in most countries, though FPTP usually suppresses it in Britain. However, there's also a ceiling on people willing to embrace wild-eyed populism, and they may be reaching it.
THE UKIP treasurer says its leadership would rather deal with Boris Johnson than with David Cameron in the run-up to the next election.
Stuart Wheeler, the multimillionaire former Tory donor, said it was “much more likely” that his party could work with the mayor of London than the prime minister on a potential pact in certain constituencies in the 2015 general election.
Nigel Farage’s party does not trust Cameron to deliver a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU and believes Johnson is a truer Eurosceptic.
“If Boris Johnson’s policies were acceptable, which I think on the whole they would be, I would be happy to do that [a deal],” Wheeler said. He suggested that if Johnson became Tory leader, there would be significant potential for talks between the two parties. UKIP insiders indicated last night that Farage shared Wheeler’s view.
There is a lot of guff now going around that UKIP will, sometime in the near future make a pact with a suitable Tory leader and all will be well in Toryland. Politics will get back to normal and all will be well with the world.
Don't believe a word of it! UKIP members wont allow it to happen. The vast majority of kippers, from what I'm reading and discussing want UKIP to be a replacement party to the Tories, not a junior partner to the old and degraded conservatives.
Research by YouGov, the Sunday Times pollster, found the UKIP leader is regarded by voters as “a genuine person with genuine opinions” who “speaks his mind” and “knows what the country wants”. The man dismissed as an anachronistic golf club bore by the Westminster sophisticates is liked because he is a character. The voters, rightly or wrongly, think he has principles — and sticks to them.
Comments
http://www.fa-mag.com/news/harvard-professor-gay-bashes-keynes-14173.html
If you want to know what EdM is offering ;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s46vj/World_at_One_29_04_2013/
Despair , incompentence , and evasion.
I await the day they purport losing all seats in Scotland as the ultimate sign of maturing as a political party.
Weird thing is, I'm still more minded to vote for them than the alternatives in my area.
I think you can only make that statement on the proviso that you retain the existing energy legislation. It would be a simple matter to avoid the lion's share of the planned energy investment by aiming to use coal (which is cheap at the moment and likely to remain so), and gas, with rapid development of shale gas soon reducing our import parity pricing. Just avoiding the investment in windmills and grid extensions and smart meters etc. would knock a good chunk off the bill. Using cheap coal - still more. And gas would also become cheaper, partly because some would be displaced by coal.
Last week the HoL was moaning that it saw difficulty in raising €1 trillion for uneconomic energy investment in the EU. They're right: if I were running an energy firm, I would be scared witless that the EU would go broke leaving me holding the baby. You have only to see what is happening in Spain on that front. The EU can't afford the subsidies and uncompetitive prices it would entail.
At present, given the other parties are so incautious and well trained they appear the same as a result, it works more often than not though.
The sheer glee with which all the political reporters repeatedly reused Cameron and Clarke's lines was a measure of just how badly Cameron and Osbrowne have miscalculated recently.
Now they are back to spinning "it's a choice between little Ed and Cammie". All well and good except that didn't deliver a majority in 2010 either and it was used then to try and cripple Clegg with the amusing coalition result we now have. Doesn't sound particularly clever to claim it's a two party choice while you are in a coalition with the lib dems but they clearly have no ideas left.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his brother for his political life.
You put your finger on it again. That's the clincher. Clegg's toxic but there is a blatantly obvious and fairly quick solution to that. Rebuilding a hammered base takes years and it the more it get's hammered the longer it will take. Wee Willie Rennie has that job pretty much sewn up. He almost makes Clegg look good. If you're well served locally by them I wouldn't consider it that weird. The smarter lib dems at a local level will try to make it clear Clegg isn't their fault and that the coalition will end. As indeed will Clegg's time as leader at some point. I'm still inclined to think it's going to be before the election whether Clegg wants to or not. Finishing behind the BNP in South Shields should finally wake up some of those around Clegg to just how bad things are.
The Tories have never forgiven Ed for having beaten David.
They believe in the hereditary principle. THe eldest should automatically get whatever he wants.
Ed beat David fair and square according to the rules of the Labour Party.
None of this speaks to his actual worth on policy or as leadership material, but it is at least a small point in his favour I think. As UKIP might say, he has balls at least.
Having listened to some UKIP voters on the radio it seems that they are in favour of Secondary Modern Schools, because that's is what bringing back Grammar Schools implies
Furthermore they are anti-Europe anti-immigration and pro-English Nationalism. In other words they are the BNP in suits.They also seem to be the Daily Mail readers incarnate, non graduates and older, and many live in towns which are on the margins of England.
Nigel Farage may be affable but he lacks the coherence which national leadership demands.UKIP members are not clowns, they are dinosaurs who should be extinct in the 21st Century.
http://t.co/T3RsRfo64i
http://t.co/VIluaaHWQN
What's fascinating is that, regardless of policy strengths of weakness, I find each terrible at presentation for completely different reasons.
And stop Puttin' on The Ritz. It is cheaper per night than an NHS hospital bed.
What's wrong with English nationalism? If Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalism are okay, I can't see what the problem with the English variety is.
You missed the capital "B" out. ;-)
Folkestone is 10 miles from Dover which happens to be one of the main gateways for European freight traffic coming into this country.That freight traffic travels right past Folkestone where the M20 starts is no doubt one of the locals greatest frustrations particularly given the danger many of these lorries provide. It is indeed the first stop for foreign traffic coming from Dover. That part of the M20 is also the carpark for Operation Stack everytime French dockers/ ferry workers etc etc go on strike. Access to and from the town is heavily impinged upon duringg such times. The volumes of European through traffic cannot be fathomed unless you live in the area, It is also the freight terminus for the Euro Rail services and it is also a ferry port in its own right. As a result it is on the front line of legal and illegal immigration from the French ferry ports. It is also surrounded by agricultural areas. How big the influx of European farm workers into the are is unclear. It won't be as big as that in Lincolnshire /Norfolk but I doubt it is insignificant.
That just about every Kent coastal town from Romney in the south Kent coast to Sheppey on the north Kent coast threw out the incumbent Tory councillors replacing them with either UKIP or Labour (in Dover and Deals case although largely because UKIP split the right of centre vote) is in no small part I suspect down to its proximity to Europe and the locals concerns about immigration and the influence of EU. They are after all on the front line......
I'm afraid bandying about "fairness" needs a tad more context IMO .
"Ed beat David fair and square according to the rules of the Labour Party."
And it's a decision which I believe will cost Labour an election which they really should win. I thought for a while he may come good but he hasn't. He's just not a leader and he should have been astute enough to realize that.
The biggest load of rubbish, printed about UKIP, of the day.
You are obviously either a dyed in the wool communist, trotskyite, or far gone militant labour or, or are you socialist workers party?
And here's the converse relationship between White British % 2011 and Labour Vote % GE 2010:
http://t.co/pCLnYtaY4U
http://t.co/rURkWBal4B
Although quite why Cameron gets derided for thinking himself born to rule when to my mind Ed M and co appear as equally certain of that about themselves, I don't know, although possibly he gets more stick for it because he's posher. And he went to Eton, which may have been mentioned at some point since he became leader.
I think there should be an anti UKIP movement because UKIP has set back the cause of fairness by about 40 years.
Well don't just sit there suggesting it why don't you start it yourself? This is a liberal democracy where freedom of speech is encouraged. I'm sure UKIP supporters would welcome your insightful intellectual analysis......
The North Sea air more often numbs rather than refreshes the brain,
http://news.sky.com/story/1086730/widow-nhs-111-helpine-failed-dying-husband
I cannot comment on the details of the case, but as the article states, concern has been expressed at the 111 line from a number of directions, including Dr Gerada the President of the GP's. In Leicester the implementation was deferred, so I have no direct experience.
If only he would let down his guard more often, He would be far more eloquent and entertaining. And it might just stop him calling everything "incredible" too.
Here is the audio boo: http://www.lbc.co.uk/david-cameron-ukip-fruitcakes-and-loonies-63456
The comment was never scripted or pre-planned. It just rolled off the tongue SeanT style.
You are beginning to sound like a politician, Dr. Sox!
That discipline can come from the kids themselves or be imposed by the school.
Kids in leafy areas bring in more self-discipline than kids from wuff areas.
ergo schools in wuff areas need more imposed discipline than schools in leafy areas
Hippy educationalists thought different hence the collapse of the education system in wuff areas starting as far back as the 70s
This was partially compensated for by the armed forces providing a shouting-based basic education and trade school for boisterous boys which was muffed up by civilianization i.e. transport corps, catering corps etc.
So good education spin
1) grammars - don't care about that personally but obviously some people do
2) more discipline in schools (would require big war with education establishment to actually implement of course)
3) killing two birds with one stone by using the defense budget partly as a shouting-based trade school
THE UKIP treasurer says its leadership would rather deal with Boris Johnson than with David Cameron in the run-up to the next election.
Stuart Wheeler, the multimillionaire former Tory donor, said it was “much more likely” that his party could work with the mayor of London than the prime minister on a potential pact in certain constituencies in the 2015 general election.
Nigel Farage’s party does not trust Cameron to deliver a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU and believes Johnson is a truer Eurosceptic.
“If Boris Johnson’s policies were acceptable, which I think on the whole they would be, I would be happy to do that [a deal],” Wheeler said. He suggested that if Johnson became Tory leader, there would be significant potential for talks between the two parties. UKIP insiders indicated last night that Farage shared Wheeler’s view.
YouGov’s latest poll for The Sunday Times offers a glimmer of hope. The feelgood factor is improving. This weekend, for the first time since Cameron became prime minister, more than half the public expect to be at least as well off in a year’s time as they are today. Earlier in the coalition’s life the pessimists outnumbered by two to one the combined ranks of optimists and those who expected things to remain much the same.
He (Ed Milliband) has a mountain to climb: our latest poll shows that, by two to one, voters think he is not up to the job of being prime minister.
The Lib Dems must forget any notions of mounting a full nationwide campaign in 2015. Instead they must concentrate on the seats they hold and on minimising their losses. There were signs in last week’s elections that their vote had held up better where it mattered most.
Except Avery.
Ironic and satirical detachment is all that is required. I am sure Hogarth and Swift loved their subjects,
77% of voters think it was bad tactics to Label UKIP as clowns.
Before grammar schools were abolished, it was based on ability. Now it's based on whether you can afford it or not. You can either pay for it directly, or indirectly by buying a house in the catchment area of a top school.
Majority Lab government 31%
Majority Con government 29%
Lab/Lib coalition 14%
Con/Lib coalition 6%
Don't knows 20%
18% say he has handled it well.
It's probably as well that YouGov doesn't run a poll on whether his (Kellner's) wife is up to her job.
Yes, in my patch they only lost a few, but just over the border in Wiltshire the LDs actually increased their seat numbers on 2009 (which had been even lower due to defections since then) despite a loss to UKIP (the only one in the county) and what was according to Wiki about a 50% drop in total votes (partly down to fewer candidates standing I think). The Chippenham bloke will need to count on that resilience for one, and it could prevent a total meltdown for them at GE.
That they may as well save their precious funds and not stand anywhere in Scotland where they do not have an incumbent, and the same for Northern England, in order to not lose their deposits, is deeply sad for a party with dreams of nationwide significance though.
There's little point in throwing everything at a seat you have no chance of winning, but it'd be nice to at least place well, and have dreams of one day winning it.
On standard of living, no one is promising that this will improve significantly during this government, The Bank of England has consistently stated that real standards of living will fall over a decade from the financial crisis and reach a fall of up to 20% before starting to recover
What you need to explain with the current recovery is why the UK economy is growing faster than expectations at a time when the Eurozone is in deepening recession and the growth forecasts for China, Japan and the US are all being cut back.
Of course, it can't be anything to do with Osborne.
Cable: I’m liberal with speed limits
It's probably as well that YouGov doesn't run a poll on whether his (Kellner's) wife is up to her job.
LOL.
How many milligrams a day does he recommend? Is that what he's on these days?
On standard of living, no one is promising that this will improve significantly during this government, The Bank of England has consistently stated that real standards of living will fall over a decade from the financial crisis and reach a fall of up to 20% before starting to recover
And what will they predict the fall will be next year I wonder.
Have we shifted the deficit elimination target from 2018 to 2020 yet? I managed to predict the shift from 2017 to 2018 after they first pushed back the target due to lower than expected growth, so await the next revision.
What you need to explain with the current recovery is how the UK economy is growing faster than expectations
Even not understanding economics this phrase makes me suspicious though. Faster than whose expections? And when were they made? Expectations are easier to meet faster than, well, expected, when you have revised them downwards consistently for years (justifiably or not).
If I predicted 50 LD seat losses in the locals a year ago, and then 500 losses a week ago, it would clearly have been a very positive sign that the real loss ended up being so much better than my expectations, wouldn't it?
Have you ever launched into a SeanT rant, PB style, over a spaghetti bolognase?
Sorry over 40s.
And with that nonserious parting shot, a good night to all.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10037822/Why-did-voters-turn-to-Ukip-in-parts-of-true-blue-Lincolnshire.html
Eddy Poll, the Tory deputy leader of Lincolnshire council, admits in the article to helping to deliver leaflets for his friend Richard Fairman who happened to be UKIP candidate in his seat of Spalding East.
Fairman defeated Poll by 923 votes to 870.
“We could get 100 seats at the next general election.”
Cameron minus 23
Miliband minus 28
Clegg minus 54
This famous New Yorker cartoon reflects the reality rather more closely, I suspect.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Internet_dog.jpg
EDIT
Which would help UKIP in a Ribble Valley by-election.
My theory, pace SeanT, is that there is nothing remarkable about the populist right movement getting 10-15% in polls - there is a latent 10% or so who quite fancy each extreme in most countries, though FPTP usually suppresses it in Britain. However, there's also a ceiling on people willing to embrace wild-eyed populism, and they may be reaching it.
Don't believe a word of it! UKIP members wont allow it to happen. The vast majority of kippers, from what I'm reading and discussing want UKIP to be a replacement party to the Tories, not a junior partner to the old and degraded conservatives.