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Paranoia or should be worried about shy Trumpers? – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171
    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,672
    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    If he withdraws now unless something strange* happens to JD Vance as well the Reps would put forward a crazier candidate.

    In theory the RNC would have discretion but in practice I'm thinking state nomination deadlines would be - problematic for any alternative.

    *Well, stranger.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,218
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    Then that's Labour losing in 2029, however, I don't think the high net migration will continue under Labour. They're already making noises about raising the £39k visa threshold and pushing through a regional and sector based salary minimums which would fundamentally change the way sponsor visas are issued. That along with the collapse of the student visa factory "universities" sector will push net migration down to ~150k within a couple of years and with the higher thresholds the current lot of foreign students graduating will have to go back home meaning we may actually have 2-3 years of net emigration as student arrivals unwind.
    If we get net emigration I will be astonished. I’ll be fairly amazed if it comes down to net ~150k arrivals

    My worst fear is that Britain will become a bigger version of Sweden. Jeez

    We need to be like Denmark. Get much more proactive with integration and be much more ruthless - sadly - with asylum seekers. That’s how you restore public faith
    The £39k income threshold has done a real number on foreign student applications. They used to come here on the basis that they could pick up an easy job at some tinpot outfit that had a visa sponsorship licence for £27k and do whatever shit job but stay long enough to get residency. At £39k companies actually have to be able to justify those roles properly and they can't just stick them in dog work jobs. At £45k (the rumoured new threshold for skilled worker visas) it's going to be even more difficult to sell Indian and Nigerian students on £20k upfront masters degrees from some no name university because there's no way they will get a visa after their degrees are complete.

    Additionally the students who arrived since 2022 are all now having to find £39k jobs to stay in the country, probably close to 80% won't be able to and will have to return to their countries of origin along with their dependents.

    Finally newly issued student visas don't come with the right to bring dependents which means as families of 4 leave after not getting sponsorship they are being replaced by 1 student arriving.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,450
    Sandpit said:

    This women’s 400 hurdles could be one of the events of the week.

    Just seen it. A new world record, Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone with 50.37.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,145
    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    It’s not just “the French”. It’s France. France is in almost all respects - weather, scenery, colonial possessions in the tropics, physical attractiveness of population, architecture, obesity rates, transport infrastructure, planning regs, rioting abilities, Olympics medal table, ok maybe not river cleanliness - better than Britain.

    Put aside your dislike of surly waiters, annoying shopkeepers who correct your use of masculine and feminine gender, and shrugging bureaucrats, and consider the territories on offer.
    French weather might once have been better than ours but now is decidedly worse. Last year half of France was over 40 for the whole summer, and the Olympics has had enough rain for Rishi to have called several elections.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,383
    I have to say kite sailing looks like a lot of fun.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 954
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    Then that's Labour losing in 2029, however, I don't think the high net migration will continue under Labour. They're already making noises about raising the £39k visa threshold and pushing through a regional and sector based salary minimums which would fundamentally change the way sponsor visas are issued. That along with the collapse of the student visa factory "universities" sector will push net migration down to ~150k within a couple of years and with the higher thresholds the current lot of foreign students graduating will have to go back home meaning we may actually have 2-3 years of net emigration as student arrivals unwind.
    If we get net emigration I will be astonished. I’ll be fairly amazed if it comes down to net ~150k arrivals

    My worst fear is that Britain will become a bigger version of Sweden. Jeez

    We need to be like Denmark. Get much more proactive with integration and be much more ruthless - sadly - with asylum seekers. That’s how you restore public faith
    Break up the ghettos. Move asylum seekers to Primrose hill!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,383
    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    Er... I am sure Mrs P. will integrate ok when she comes back on Monday. The dog might be a bit miffed for a nanosecond but he'll soon come round.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,672
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
    Sounds like this press conference was a bit of a fiasco for him. But it won't turn off the faithful.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,145
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    If he withdraws now unless something strange* happens to JD Vance as well the Reps would put forward a crazier candidate.

    In theory the RNC would have discretion but in practice I'm thinking state nomination deadlines would be - problematic for any alternative.

    *Well, stranger.
    Much is made of state deadlines but America would muddle through. Even if ballot papers can't be changed (and the Supreme Court would surely rule they can) the Electoral College would just vote for the new GOP team.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    Time is so short for that though.

    Edit: Just found an old BF bet on nominees and I am £ in if Trump drops out now and is replaced by Haley for Haley vs Harris.
    It’s the optimum outcome. For your wallet and the western world 🙏
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764
    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,957
    edited August 8
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    Then that's Labour losing in 2029, however, I don't think the high net migration will continue under Labour. They're already making noises about raising the £39k visa threshold and pushing through a regional and sector based salary minimums which would fundamentally change the way sponsor visas are issued. That along with the collapse of the student visa factory "universities" sector will push net migration down to ~150k within a couple of years and with the higher thresholds the current lot of foreign students graduating will have to go back home meaning we may actually have 2-3 years of net emigration as student arrivals unwind.
    If we get net emigration I will be astonished. I’ll be fairly amazed if it comes down to net ~150k arrivals

    My worst fear is that Britain will become a bigger version of Sweden. Jeez

    We need to be like Denmark. Get much more proactive with integration and be much more ruthless - sadly - with asylum seekers. That’s how you restore public faith
    I think the problem with being like Denmark is that we aren't clear in our heads about who we are, and have perhaps never been. We have the island to guard our identity for that, and can flex the values. Is there also something about country size?

    Denmark has had centuries - back until at least the 16C or 17C- maintaining an identity whilst having to avoid being incorporated into the edges of other people's Empires (Swedish, French, Polish, Russian, Prussian etc).

    Compare the Danish and British responses to the Mohammed Cartoons, for example. The Danes were clear; we trimmed to the wind far more and tried to wriggle out of the real questions. I republished them in part because I was so angry with the attitude, and it felt ... lonely.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    Then that's Labour losing in 2029, however, I don't think the high net migration will continue under Labour. They're already making noises about raising the £39k visa threshold and pushing through a regional and sector based salary minimums which would fundamentally change the way sponsor visas are issued. That along with the collapse of the student visa factory "universities" sector will push net migration down to ~150k within a couple of years and with the higher thresholds the current lot of foreign students graduating will have to go back home meaning we may actually have 2-3 years of net emigration as student arrivals unwind.
    If we get net emigration I will be astonished. I’ll be fairly amazed if it comes down to net ~150k arrivals

    My worst fear is that Britain will become a bigger version of Sweden. Jeez

    We need to be like Denmark. Get much more proactive with integration and be much more ruthless - sadly - with asylum seekers. That’s how you restore public faith
    Break up the ghettos. Move asylum seekers to Primrose hill!
    lol thanks. We already have all the drunks of Arlington Road hostels and now all the homeless Fent addicts around the Tube, in tents. I think Camden is already doing its bit to accommodate Britain’s social problems
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    Then that's Labour losing in 2029, however, I don't think the high net migration will continue under Labour. They're already making noises about raising the £39k visa threshold and pushing through a regional and sector based salary minimums which would fundamentally change the way sponsor visas are issued. That along with the collapse of the student visa factory "universities" sector will push net migration down to ~150k within a couple of years and with the higher thresholds the current lot of foreign students graduating will have to go back home meaning we may actually have 2-3 years of net emigration as student arrivals unwind.
    If we get net emigration I will be astonished. I’ll be fairly amazed if it comes down to net ~150k arrivals

    My worst fear is that Britain will become a bigger version of Sweden. Jeez

    We need to be like Denmark. Get much more proactive with integration and be much more ruthless - sadly - with asylum seekers. That’s how you restore public faith
    I think the problem with being like Denmark is that we aren't, and have perhaps never been, anything like so clear about who we are in out heads. We have the island for that. Is there also something about country size?

    Denmark has had centuries - back until at least the 17C - maintaining an identity whilst avoiding being incorporated into the edges of other people's Empires (Swedish, French, Polish, Russian, Prussian etc).

    Compare the Danish and British responses to the Mohammed Cartoons, for example. The Danes were clear; we trimmed to the wind far more. I republished them in part because I was so angry with the attitude, and it felt ... lonely.
    Because our politicians and police are cowards, we should have stamped down on the satanic verses protests
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,145

    I have to say kite sailing looks like a lot of fun.

    Kite sailing might be fun but impossible to follow without several Marvel films worth of CGI on the water.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,716

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    Er... I am sure Mrs P. will integrate ok when she comes back on Monday. The dog might be a bit miffed for a nanosecond but he'll soon come round.
    Won't you have lots of washing up to do, I usually have when my other half goes off for a couple of days...beer and curries...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,804
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    Time is so short for that though.

    Edit: Just found an old BF bet on nominees and I am £ in if Trump drops out now and is replaced by Haley for Haley vs Harris.
    It’s the optimum outcome. For your wallet and the western world 🙏
    Haley is a complete neocon. More invasions is not a good outcome for the Western world (or any other part of it). Trump was very good in that regard.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    It’s not just “the French”. It’s France. France is in almost all respects - weather, scenery, colonial possessions in the tropics, physical attractiveness of population, architecture, obesity rates, transport infrastructure, planning regs, rioting abilities, Olympics medal table, ok maybe not river cleanliness - better than Britain.

    Put aside your dislike of surly waiters, annoying shopkeepers who correct your use of masculine and feminine gender, and shrugging bureaucrats, and consider the territories on offer.
    French weather might once have been better than ours but now is decidedly worse. Last year half of France was over 40 for the whole summer, and the Olympics has had enough rain for Rishi to have called several elections.
    It’s worse than ours in selected parts of the country for about 15-20 days per year. The rest of the time it’s better. Including when it’s cold and snowy.

    One thing France is relatively crap at by global standards is sunshine hours, but they are a whole lot better than ours.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
    Sounds like this press conference was a bit of a fiasco for him. But it won't turn off the faithful.
    He's struggling. Lost. Didn't expect to be facing an energetic Harris.

    Plenty of twists and turns yet but no doubt Trump is on the back foot.

    We should always bare in mind that most americans do not tune in to the GE until Labor Day.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,954

    Omnium said:

    DavidL said:

    God that Omnium and points race stuff is a load of shite. No idea who's winning, what the tactics are. Tedious and far too long.

    Oi!

    Ah, ok I see!
    Have they done the Moped Race yet?
    Spoiler - the moped never wins.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,931
    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,674
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    What this episode has thrown into sharp relief is issues within communities.

    As with so much else, it's usually young men or people who've spent an afternoon playing bingo (great euphemism) who are at the forefront of this. It's in many ways little different to what happened in 2011 - a paroxysm of looting and criminal damage as much as anything else. I can't understand why anyone would attack a community facility like a library but it's often perceived symbols either of wealth or authority which suffer when there are these temporary breakdowns of law and order - there's not much political symbolism in looting a Greggs to be honest.

    "People like people like themselves" is what I keep coming back to - perhaps it's human nature but people naturally gravitate to people with whom they feel comfortable at a social, economic and cultural level. They always have and probably always will.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,276

    Trump looks old.

    He is.
    This was disguised by Biden looking even older.
    But no more.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,145

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    Time is so short for that though.

    Edit: Just found an old BF bet on nominees and I am £ in if Trump drops out now and is replaced by Haley for Haley vs Harris.
    Read the rules. GOP nominee bets have already been won on Trump after the Republican conference. What you have found is the back of a shopping list.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,383

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    Er... I am sure Mrs P. will integrate ok when she comes back on Monday. The dog might be a bit miffed for a nanosecond but he'll soon come round.
    Won't you have lots of washing up to do, I usually have when my other half goes off for a couple of days...beer and curries...
    Yes but I know how to use the dishwasher.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,468
    edited August 8

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    kyf_100 said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Back to more mundane matters and another dimension to the housing question:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxr2rnx4rk9o

    Over 60,000 households in temporary accommodation - how much of this will be resolved simply by more building? How many of these new flats and houses can and should be set aside for those in temporary accommodation? Perhaps we should force developers to allocate a proportion of every site to the provision of housing for those in temporary accommodation at discounted rents?

    I'm also intrigued by this from the Evening Standard article on the same issue:

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond also warned that a housebuilding boom is unlikely to happen without an increase in foreign labour.

    He told Sky News: “ You can’t build houses without builders. If the government thinks relaxing the planning rules while tightening the migration rules is going to get houses built they have another thing coming.”

    If it was me, I'd declare it a national emergency and set aside huge areas that could be designated as plots for shipping container homes. Allow them on land that's not designated for permanent housing, thus getting over the 'land is too expensive' problem. They don't have foundations and are moveable, so let people put them down more or less anywhere within designated 'mobile' home areas. Build roads and water/electricity connection points.

    Not ideal, but better than what we have at the minute. Model it on the Australian 'quarantine villages' they managed to build en masse in a matter of a few months - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-09/mining-camp-designers-plan-covid-19-quarantine-hub-in-wa/100119364

    Like our prefabs (prefabricated housing) after the war, some of which were still in use into the 1970s.
    There are still some of those around - especially in places such as Peacehaven, usually encapsulated or updated in some form.

    On a similar note, close to me there are still a couple of bungalows built around railway carriages. The owners need to watch it or a they could get listed. These would be I think 1930s or 1950s.

    Here's one attached to an end terrace that was sold in 2014 - for £30k. I'm not what happened as the advertised price was double. If I'd known I'd have had it on the first day as it is on a 350sqm plot, which the new owner built a 3 bed modern detached on. It was a steal.

    I can't post details as Zoopla seem to have lost their public archive.

    My photo of the day.



    There are a fair few old railway carriage-slash-cottages around the place. ISTR there were some in the Dungeness area, and some around the Peacehaven area as well. I've photos of a few, and I think they're well known in the railway fraternity. Some are so altered it is hard to tell they were once carriages; others have been preserved by enthusiasts and become carriages once more.

    Like this Midland one:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-66166820

    Or this NSR carriage, which became a garden shed:
    https://knottycoachtrust.org.uk/history-of-no-61/
    The problem about keeping them is that they struggle with insulation standards etc, and to renovate either loses a biggish chunk inside, or changes the outside.
    Nowadays, they probably more fulfil the role of a larger, more plush beach hut/holiday homes rather then full-time accommodation. And given how much beach huts go for...

    Ed Sheeran's apparently bought one for £650,000. Although if the piccie is anything to go by, it's been *heavily* altered:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11018719/Singer-Sheeran-splashes-650-000-converted-1880s-railway-carriage-views-Channel.html
    My family used to go on a Scottish seaside holiday in what must have been (thinking back) a NBR 6-wheeler brake coach off its wheels and on brick piers, which was gradually accreted onto in the manner of the ISS, extended piecemeal by a lean-to kitchen, a brick cludgie, and a bedroom and sun lounge made (I think) from redundant prefab metal framed windows. It was right next to the seaside. A week at Easter, and two weeks in high summer. Views over the bay, and herons fishing outside at breakfast in the spring.

    The little guard's side sticky-out windows and clerestory roof were still there. As were the lockers/seats with leather padded topping. Our very large Irish setter adopted one as his bed. Was very surprised when a visitor decided to sleep there, but still got in regardless.

    I was very sad when it was demolished ca 1966 and replaced with a timber prefab.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    Americans are much more positive about people showing excessive self confidence than us?

    I'd like to see some US preachers in front of a bunch of CoE parishoners too.

    (Actually I think we did at Harry's wedding).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    Though on the other side of the coin it seems to be different. I mentor a black colleague at work, he says he rarely experienced racial prejudice growing up in a working class neighbourhood, until he started mixing with middle class people.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,189
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    Then that's Labour losing in 2029, however, I don't think the high net migration will continue under Labour. They're already making noises about raising the £39k visa threshold and pushing through a regional and sector based salary minimums which would fundamentally change the way sponsor visas are issued. That along with the collapse of the student visa factory "universities" sector will push net migration down to ~150k within a couple of years and with the higher thresholds the current lot of foreign students graduating will have to go back home meaning we may actually have 2-3 years of net emigration as student arrivals unwind.
    If we get net emigration I will be astonished. I’ll be fairly amazed if it comes down to net ~150k arrivals

    My worst fear is that Britain will become a bigger version of Sweden. Jeez

    We need to be like Denmark. Get much more proactive with integration and be much more ruthless - sadly - with asylum seekers. That’s how you restore public faith
    Break up the ghettos. Move asylum seekers to Primrose hill!
    lol thanks. We already have all the drunks of Arlington Road hostels and now all the homeless Fent addicts around the Tube, in tents. I think Camden is already doing its bit to accommodate Britain’s social problems
    And you may or may not have HS2! Soz!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    edited August 8
    dixiedean said:

    Trump looks old.

    He is.
    This was disguised by Biden looking even older.
    But no more.
    If he wins he will be older than Biden is now by this stage of his presidency. By his own terms he should not be the nominee.

    But I'd run too if I had a Supreme Court say Presidents are in practical terms immune for nearly all their actions. Just imagine what Biden could decide to do before January if he wanted to!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,824

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
    A blitzkrieg whereby the Ukrainian forces bypass the Russian defence lines to liberate Ukrainian territory via Russian territory?

    Comparable to how the fall of France was facilitated by the bypassing the Maginot Line.
    Incidentally, I read your post and thought: "Nah, blitzkrieg was much faster than the Ukrainian advance in Kursk."

    Then I looked into it... and it may not have been.:
    "For example, from 10 May 1940 through 25 June 1940 is 46 days and the Germans covered a distance of perhaps 250 km, or approximately 5 km/day. From 22 June 1941 to 5 December 1941 is 165 days and perhaps 1000 km were covered, or roughly 6 km/day. I imagine Rommel in North Africa went even faster."
    https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11603

    But other sources say 120 miles in five days. Which, if copied, would soon have the Ukrainians at Moscow's gates... ;)

    An odd discrepancy if they're talking about the same thing.
    Dunkirk. There was a film about it, and Hitler halting the Nazi advance so logistics could catch up with the front line. That was (checks Wikipedia) 24th May so slap bang in the middle of your 46 days, and even without the stop order, Dunkirk was a distraction on the road to Paris.
    No, Case Yellow was about the control of the Picardy coast (and destruction of the BEF, Belgian, Dutch and French Northern armies). There was then repositioning for the attack on Paris, and conquest of the rest of France, which was Case Red, which included some BEF forces too.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,145
    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    Because American athletics prep is done in college meetings in front of thousands of cheering spectators. We have club championships where you are lucky if the winner's mum has turned up to watch.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171
    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    That wacky races runner who beat Kerr in the 1500 metres, saying “I think God was with me in the final straight”. Oh fuck off.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,651
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037

    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    Because American athletics prep is done in college meetings in front of thousands of cheering spectators. We have club championships where you are lucky if the winner's mum has turned up to watch.
    I do admire their college sports support. It's so huge it must be a real thrill.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,952

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    And chatting shit on PB with random weirdos.
    Ain’t it great!
    I resent 'random'.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,954
    Leon said:

    If Leon was a lawyer.

    Linklaters partner banned from drinking at work events after Vienna trip

    Magic Circle law firm issues final warning after partner accused of inappropriate behaviour


    A partner at the Magic Circle law firm Linklaters has been banned from drinking alcohol at work events after he was accused of inappropriate behaviour during a business trip to Vienna.

    The elite City institution is understood to have given the partner a final warning following a complaint that he had touched the bottom of a female associate during a work retreat in June.

    The partner is also accused of making inappropriate comments to another female associate during the Vienna trip.

    This includes remarks about coming up to her room and asking whether she would be going up to the room of another male partner, who was allegedly present during the evening drinks.

    Linklaters is understood to have restricted the partner from drinking at work events and work socials after launching an investigation into the incident.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/08/08/linklaters-partner-banned-drinking-work-events-vienna-trip/

    You can call me any names you like, but never ever suggest I might sink so low as to be… a lawyer
    Bus tour driver?

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    Have you been to France? I’ve just spent about 9 of the last 12 weeks there, all over the country

    They are remarkably polite, friendly, honest, kind, certainly outside Paris. In fact it’s getting hard to find the traditional rude shrugging Frenchman

    It really helps if you can say just two or three words of French. That makes them smile, then they happily accept that English is the lingua franca

    And their country is much more beautiful than ours
    I deny nothing you have said, however nothing you said indicates they want to merge with england so I don't see how it is remotely relevant
    Oh but Pagan I am deadly serious about this.

    Give it time and the peuples of les deux états will voir la lumière.
    No they really won't else we would have done it centuries back when we were almost one country, since then we have got more distant from each other not closer
    Both countries have very similar problems. Tragically, we used to be able to say that the UK is more racially harmonious. Not any more
    I don't think that's true at all, last night tens of thousands across the country came out to march against Nazis and fascist EDL types. While it doesn't mean all is good again, it does show that that the majority of the UK is decent and accepting of people from different ethnicities. The "breaking point" is much further away than people might try and sensationalise.
    I hope you’re right. But I’m deeply pessimistic. Why?

    Because I don’t think the Labour government will learn anything from this, other than that they need to censor and demonise dissenting right wing opinion even more

    They won’t do anything about the boats, immigration will continue at insane levels, they will silence anyone who complains, they will make zero effort at Danish style integration. The sectarianisation of the UK will therefore continue and likely intensify
    What this episode has thrown into sharp relief is issues within communities.

    As with so much else, it's usually young men or people who've spent an afternoon playing bingo (great euphemism) who are at the forefront of this. It's in many ways little different to what happened in 2011 - a paroxysm of looting and criminal damage as much as anything else. I can't understand why anyone would attack a community facility like a library but it's often perceived symbols either of wealth or authority which suffer when there are these temporary breakdowns of law and order - there's not much political symbolism in looting a Greggs to be honest.

    "People like people like themselves" is what I keep coming back to - perhaps it's human nature but people naturally gravitate to people with whom they feel comfortable at a social, economic and cultural level. They always have and probably always will.

    That is absolutely true, my earlier anecdote about moving to a working class immigrant area when it was what we could afford, I doubt I would have had anything much in common with a factory worker white neighbourhood. However I think might have gone better because I worked trawlers for a few years so we would have some common ground. I would also say some families in the area were fairly welcoming of us at first. Their children would come play with my son etc and we were always careful that any food was halal when they came round
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    We remain tantalisingly close to statistical parity with France in the medal table. They have one more silver and one more gold. So it would only take two events to get us there.

    Britain and France are to all intents and purposes siblings that should have merged back in the 1950s when it was on the table. The same glorious dissonance that is what makes the Anglo-Scottish relationship so harmonious and productive.

    Most people if given a choice would merge with North korea before merging with france
    Done polling have you? Until then, speak for yourself.

    Large tracts of it used to be ours.
    Not done polling no, just experience that no one much has a good word to say about the french. Most of my team are scottish for example, a group that in theory should like the french from recent history. Most of them don't like the french either and if asked if they wanted to merge would go hell no!

    You of course making the first claim if anyone showing a popular move to merge with the french not me
    It’s not just “the French”. It’s France. France is in almost all respects - weather, scenery, colonial possessions in the tropics, physical attractiveness of population, architecture, obesity rates, transport infrastructure, planning regs, rioting abilities, Olympics medal table, ok maybe not river cleanliness - better than Britain.

    Put aside your dislike of surly waiters, annoying shopkeepers who correct your use of masculine and feminine gender, and shrugging bureaucrats, and consider the territories on offer.
    French weather might once have been better than ours but now is decidedly worse. Last year half of France was over 40 for the whole summer, and the Olympics has had enough rain for Rishi to have called several elections.
    It’s worse than ours in selected parts of the country for about 15-20 days per year. The rest of the time it’s better. Including when it’s cold and snowy.

    One thing France is relatively crap at by global standards is sunshine hours, but they are a whole lot better than ours.
    There is a point here, tho. The bits of France with good sunshine hours - Provence and Languedoc, essentially - really are becoming too hot in the summer. I’ve just been there. Temps hit 39C several times - hideous - and a lot of homes do not have aircon!

    Intolerable. It’s why Provençal types are moving to l’Aveyron. Higher altitude means cooler days but Millau - say - still gets 2400 hours of sun a year. London gets about 1500
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,931
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    Americans are much more positive about people showing excessive self confidence than us?

    I'd like to see some US preachers in front of a bunch of CoE parishoners too.

    (Actually I think we did at Harry's wedding).
    The constant chest beating and hysterical over the top reactions grates on me .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,145
    Foxy said:

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
    A blitzkrieg whereby the Ukrainian forces bypass the Russian defence lines to liberate Ukrainian territory via Russian territory?

    Comparable to how the fall of France was facilitated by the bypassing the Maginot Line.
    Incidentally, I read your post and thought: "Nah, blitzkrieg was much faster than the Ukrainian advance in Kursk."

    Then I looked into it... and it may not have been.:
    "For example, from 10 May 1940 through 25 June 1940 is 46 days and the Germans covered a distance of perhaps 250 km, or approximately 5 km/day. From 22 June 1941 to 5 December 1941 is 165 days and perhaps 1000 km were covered, or roughly 6 km/day. I imagine Rommel in North Africa went even faster."
    https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11603

    But other sources say 120 miles in five days. Which, if copied, would soon have the Ukrainians at Moscow's gates... ;)

    An odd discrepancy if they're talking about the same thing.
    Dunkirk. There was a film about it, and Hitler halting the Nazi advance so logistics could catch up with the front line. That was (checks Wikipedia) 24th May so slap bang in the middle of your 46 days, and even without the stop order, Dunkirk was a distraction on the road to Paris.
    No, Case Yellow was about the control of the Picardy coast (and destruction of the BEF, Belgian, Dutch and French Northern armies). There was then repositioning for the attack on Paris, and conquest of the rest of France, which was Case Red, which included some BEF forces too.
    The point is you can't measure the speed of blitzkrieg from 10th May to mid-July.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764
    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,450
    "Understanding England’s anarchy
    We must condemn these lawless riots – but we must also confront the anger behind them.
    By Will Tanner"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/08/understanding-englands-anarchy
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    Time is so short for that though.

    Edit: Just found an old BF bet on nominees and I am £ in if Trump drops out now and is replaced by Haley for Haley vs Harris.
    It’s the optimum outcome. For your wallet and the western world 🙏
    Haley is a complete neocon. More invasions is not a good outcome for the Western world (or any other part of it). Trump was very good in that regard.
    Given the turnaround in american conservatism neocons should now be oldcons?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    Andy_JS said:

    "Understanding England’s anarchy
    We must condemn these lawless riots – but we must also confront the anger behind them.
    By Will Tanner"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/08/understanding-englands-anarchy

    They had me interested for a second, I thought it was going to be about the 12th century anarchy - very little remembered in the general consciousness.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764
    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Guess what white people can be bad people
    So can muslims
    So can Black peope
    So can buddhists
    So can Hindus
    So can jews
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584
    edited August 8

    Three weeks ago I was utterly depressed at the thought that nothing now could stop Trump winning in November.

    Three weeks is definitely a very long time in politics.

    I think Trump thinks the same tonight.

    Another dire day of GOP campaigning. Vance speaks to a parking lot with three people and Trump gives a press conference where he just looks old and, frankly, weird and gives a load of batshit answers that mainly are about him and how big his crowds are and how Walz is a communist.

    And a poll showing Harris +6.

    Way to go but at the moment this sucker is going down.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,931
    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    That wacky races runner who beat Kerr in the 1500 metres, saying “I think God was with me in the final straight”. Oh fuck off.
    So true. They also fluked two wins against us in the 400m and 1500m. Seriously annoying .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,952
    edited August 8

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    Time is so short for that though.

    Edit: Just found an old BF bet on nominees and I am £ in if Trump drops out now and is replaced by Haley for Haley vs Harris.
    Read the rules. GOP nominee bets have already been won on Trump after the Republican conference. What you have found is the back of a shopping list.
    A bet on her to win the election would show a pretty good return, though.
    Though it's not going to happen.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    2h
    Trump claims there has never been a politician in world history who has crowds like him

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1821614976798196171


    ====

    Ceaușescu had a large crowd on his last day on earth.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,824
    edited August 8

    Foxy said:

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
    A blitzkrieg whereby the Ukrainian forces bypass the Russian defence lines to liberate Ukrainian territory via Russian territory?

    Comparable to how the fall of France was facilitated by the bypassing the Maginot Line.
    Incidentally, I read your post and thought: "Nah, blitzkrieg was much faster than the Ukrainian advance in Kursk."

    Then I looked into it... and it may not have been.:
    "For example, from 10 May 1940 through 25 June 1940 is 46 days and the Germans covered a distance of perhaps 250 km, or approximately 5 km/day. From 22 June 1941 to 5 December 1941 is 165 days and perhaps 1000 km were covered, or roughly 6 km/day. I imagine Rommel in North Africa went even faster."
    https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11603

    But other sources say 120 miles in five days. Which, if copied, would soon have the Ukrainians at Moscow's gates... ;)

    An odd discrepancy if they're talking about the same thing.
    Dunkirk. There was a film about it, and Hitler halting the Nazi advance so logistics could catch up with the front line. That was (checks Wikipedia) 24th May so slap bang in the middle of your 46 days, and even without the stop order, Dunkirk was a distraction on the road to Paris.
    No, Case Yellow was about the control of the Picardy coast (and destruction of the BEF, Belgian, Dutch and French Northern armies). There was then repositioning for the attack on Paris, and conquest of the rest of France, which was Case Red, which included some BEF forces too.
    The point is you can't measure the speed of blitzkrieg from 10th May to mid-July.
    I agree on that. It was 14 days from The German border to Calais.

    Only a few German divisions were motorised though, most marched alongside horse and cart.

    For real Blitzkreig perhaps Pattons breakout from Normandy was a better example, or Israel into Egypt in 1967.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,218
    In generally better world news it looks like Iran are backing out of attacking Israel. I wonder whether they'll bomb a few empty trucks again and claim victory. Fingers crossed because we don't need any more escalation in the middle east.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584

    Stephanie Grisham
    @OMGrisham

    Re: Trump’s self-announced press conference today at 2 pm: He’s panicking. I’ve seen this play many times. He thinks his team is failing him & no one can speak better/“save” his campaign/defend him but him. He hates the coverage Harris is getting & thinks only he can fix it.

    https://x.com/OMGrisham/status/1821540622110445591
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,957
    edited August 8
    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    Just imagine how insufferable USA athletes are going to be in 2028 . Why are they generally so annoying !

    Americans are much more positive about people showing excessive self confidence than us?

    I'd like to see some US preachers in front of a bunch of CoE parishoners too.

    (Actually I think we did at Harry's wedding).
    The USA have a very wide range of preachers :smile:, including Episcopalians who seem in large part to be very traditionalist in style and modernist in beliefs, which is an interesting contrast to 'typical CofE'.

    My favourite thumbnail definition of difference is Tony Campolo between most "Black" (in the UK, "black-led") and most "White" churches.

    White churches:
    The minister is the conductor. The choir are the performers. The congregation is the audience.

    Black churches:
    The minister is the conductor. The choir and congregation are the performers. God is the audience.

    The other ones are that black churches clap off the beat, not on it, which can cause chaos in mixed groups. And black churches do call and response in sermons, unlike most white churches (Pentecostals do), which is in some ways a form of liturgical ritual.
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 137


    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar
    ·
    2h
    Trump claims there has never been a politician in world history who has crowds like him

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1821614976798196171


    ====

    Ceaușescu had a large crowd on his last day on earth.

    Never seen an Indian or Pakistani rally?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
    A blitzkrieg whereby the Ukrainian forces bypass the Russian defence lines to liberate Ukrainian territory via Russian territory?

    Comparable to how the fall of France was facilitated by the bypassing the Maginot Line.
    Incidentally, I read your post and thought: "Nah, blitzkrieg was much faster than the Ukrainian advance in Kursk."

    Then I looked into it... and it may not have been.:
    "For example, from 10 May 1940 through 25 June 1940 is 46 days and the Germans covered a distance of perhaps 250 km, or approximately 5 km/day. From 22 June 1941 to 5 December 1941 is 165 days and perhaps 1000 km were covered, or roughly 6 km/day. I imagine Rommel in North Africa went even faster."
    https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11603

    But other sources say 120 miles in five days. Which, if copied, would soon have the Ukrainians at Moscow's gates... ;)

    An odd discrepancy if they're talking about the same thing.
    Dunkirk. There was a film about it, and Hitler halting the Nazi advance so logistics could catch up with the front line. That was (checks Wikipedia) 24th May so slap bang in the middle of your 46 days, and even without the stop order, Dunkirk was a distraction on the road to Paris.
    No, Case Yellow was about the control of the Picardy coast (and destruction of the BEF, Belgian, Dutch and French Northern armies). There was then repositioning for the attack on Paris, and conquest of the rest of France, which was Case Red, which included some BEF forces too.
    The point is you can't measure the speed of blitzkrieg from 10th May to mid-July.
    I agree on that. It was 14 days from The German border to Calais.

    Only a few German divisions were motorised though, most marched alongside horse and cart. I

    For real Blitzkreig perhaps Pattons breakout from Normandy was a better example, or Israel into Egypt in 1967.
    Operation Barbarossa was surely the fastest land invasion in history, until winter arrived at the gates of Moscow
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764
    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Here is a question for you.

    You live in a house you are the only people of your ethnicity in the street or indeed the surrounding streets.
    When your girlfriend is spat on by a 15 year old and called white trash and you go knock on the parents door and they tell you its her fault for not covering her arms and wearing a niquab over her hair how would you feel?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,699

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
    A blitzkrieg whereby the Ukrainian forces bypass the Russian defence lines to liberate Ukrainian territory via Russian territory?

    Comparable to how the fall of France was facilitated by the bypassing the Maginot Line.
    They could have done this instead of the failed southern counteroffensive if Biden hadn't been vetoing it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,672


    Stephanie Grisham
    @OMGrisham

    Re: Trump’s self-announced press conference today at 2 pm: He’s panicking. I’ve seen this play many times. He thinks his team is failing him & no one can speak better/“save” his campaign/defend him but him. He hates the coverage Harris is getting & thinks only he can fix it.

    https://x.com/OMGrisham/status/1821540622110445591

    Having now seen some of it, he thinks wrongly.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,517
    a
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Guess what white people can be bad people
    So can muslims
    So can Black peope
    So can buddhists
    So can Hindus
    So can jews
    Liking and even enjoying social, racial and religious differences is a Western middle class thing.

    For much of the rest of the world, the different is kind of ok, if it’s only passing through.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,677
    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
    Sounds like this press conference was a bit of a fiasco for him. But it won't turn off the faithful.
    Listened to a bit of it. Stream-of-consciousness brain-dump. What you'd expect from him, I guess, but extraordinary when you think of it.
    And then imagine what he could be like in 5 years time, coming to the end of a second term, convinced he possesses the judgement of Solomon, and vindicated by an election victory...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584
    Walz: "The Republican party is stuck with Donald Trump. He's yours. You got him. You are welcome to it."

    What a veep pick.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,276
    Yet another shocking boxing decision.
    It has to go from the Olympics.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    He turned 78 in June, slightly older than Biden was this time 4 years ago (Biden turned 78 in November 2020). The shooting would shake anyone, but I think the reason he looks old is that he is old. He’s the oldest ever presidential candidate from one of the two main parties. The summer of ‘46 was a bumper season for future US Presidents (Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Trump) but time’s catching up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    A veep choice for the ages.

    He's the Big Bertha from Minnesota.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,672
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Oh, I think he was all on show.

    The 'all' being an absolute inadequate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,672

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    A veep choice for the ages.

    He's the Big Bertha from Minnesota.
    Although you do have to wonder why he goes around trapping squirrels in shoe boxes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    He turned 78 in June, slightly older than Biden was this time 4 years ago (Biden turned 78 in November 2020). The shooting would shake anyone, but I think the reason he looks old is that he is old. He’s the oldest ever presidential candidate from one of the two main parties. The summer of ‘46 was a bumper season for future US Presidents (Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Trump) but time’s catching up.
    Old. And mad

    Harris should agree to all these debates because he’s going to look dreadful in every one of them

    Debating the even madder Biden he could just stay quiet and let Joe dig his own grave. Not now
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Understanding England’s anarchy
    We must condemn these lawless riots – but we must also confront the anger behind them.
    By Will Tanner"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/08/understanding-englands-anarchy

    They had me interested for a second, I thought it was going to be about the 12th century anarchy - very little remembered in the general consciousness.
    I’ve met Will a couple of times. Very bright chap. Ideologically in the Nick Timothy mould, though more slick. But evidently a little in thrall to the volksgemeinschaft ideas currently coursing through the right.

    He was standing in the last election somewhere in East Anglia but got swept away by the tide. He’ll be back, I expect.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,764

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
    Sounds like this press conference was a bit of a fiasco for him. But it won't turn off the faithful.
    Listened to a bit of it. Stream-of-consciousness brain-dump. What you'd expect from him, I guess, but extraordinary when you think of it.
    And then imagine what he could be like in 5 years time, coming to the end of a second term, convinced he possesses the judgement of Solomon, and vindicated by an election victory...
    Most people of those persuasions are great people frankly

    There are a lot of differences however between those who have integrated and those that live in their own communities which I didn't understand till I lived in one of those communities because suddenly you are expected to live by their rules not the british rules
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584
    DougSeal said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    He turned 78 in June, slightly older than Biden was this time 4 years ago (Biden turned 78 in November 2020). The shooting would shake anyone, but I think the reason he looks old is that he is old. He’s the oldest ever presidential candidate from one of the two main parties. The summer of ‘46 was a bumper season for future US Presidents (Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Trump) but time’s catching up.
    The contrast is now the thing. Harris vs Trump.

    And the lighting at that deranged press conference in his Mago bollicko venue did not help. More vanity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,824
    edited August 8
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    What is going on in Kursk?

    Apparently Ukraine is now operating helicopters *within* Russia, and Russia have destroyed a Ukrainian air-defence asset - which means Ukraine were expecting to need valuable AD coverage further forward.

    Yesterday I was expecting this to be a larger version of Ukraine's previous incursions into Russia. Now, after a couple of days, it is looking significantly more strategic. I just cannot fathom what that strategy is.

    Apparently to hold in order to use as bargaining chip in the event of negotiations. Seems a bit optimistic to believe they could hold it though.
    I find that hard to believe; defence lines take a lot of time to create. Weeks at best; months for really good defence lines.

    But this thread suggests that Ukraine might be going after railway lines; both to disrupt Russian supplies, and also to bring their own stuff in. The former would only be temporary; the latter would indicate a longer stay.

    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821558608238162231

    And the official Ukrainian Railways site is making a claim about entering Russia...
    https://x.com/Schizointel/status/1821572965542289848/photo/1

    It's certainly more than a Dieppe-style raid. But I've no idea what the strategy is.
    A blitzkrieg whereby the Ukrainian forces bypass the Russian defence lines to liberate Ukrainian territory via Russian territory?

    Comparable to how the fall of France was facilitated by the bypassing the Maginot Line.
    Incidentally, I read your post and thought: "Nah, blitzkrieg was much faster than the Ukrainian advance in Kursk."

    Then I looked into it... and it may not have been.:
    "For example, from 10 May 1940 through 25 June 1940 is 46 days and the Germans covered a distance of perhaps 250 km, or approximately 5 km/day. From 22 June 1941 to 5 December 1941 is 165 days and perhaps 1000 km were covered, or roughly 6 km/day. I imagine Rommel in North Africa went even faster."
    https://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11603

    But other sources say 120 miles in five days. Which, if copied, would soon have the Ukrainians at Moscow's gates... ;)

    An odd discrepancy if they're talking about the same thing.
    Dunkirk. There was a film about it, and Hitler halting the Nazi advance so logistics could catch up with the front line. That was (checks Wikipedia) 24th May so slap bang in the middle of your 46 days, and even without the stop order, Dunkirk was a distraction on the road to Paris.
    No, Case Yellow was about the control of the Picardy coast (and destruction of the BEF, Belgian, Dutch and French Northern armies). There was then repositioning for the attack on Paris, and conquest of the rest of France, which was Case Red, which included some BEF forces too.
    The point is you can't measure the speed of blitzkrieg from 10th May to mid-July.
    I agree on that. It was 14 days from The German border to Calais.

    Only a few German divisions were motorised though, most marched alongside horse and cart. I

    For real Blitzkreig perhaps Pattons breakout from Normandy was a better example, or Israel into Egypt in 1967.
    Operation Barbarossa was surely the fastest land invasion in history, until winter arrived at the gates of Moscow
    Also mostly on foot, and with significant pauses to reduce the cauldrons.

    Completely motorised blitzkreig was a later thing.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,321
    USA win the basketball semi final vs Serbia, after very very nearly losing it. Down 17 points at one moment.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,383

    I have to say kite sailing looks like a lot of fun.

    Kite sailing might be fun but impossible to follow without several Marvel films worth of CGI on the water.
    We should bring back Olympic gliding. It could be awesome with suitable onboard cameras and tracking CGI.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
    Sounds like this press conference was a bit of a fiasco for him. But it won't turn off the faithful.
    Listened to a bit of it. Stream-of-consciousness brain-dump. What you'd expect from him, I guess, but extraordinary when you think of it.
    And then imagine what he could be like in 5 years time, coming to the end of a second term, convinced he possesses the judgement of Solomon, and vindicated by an election victory...
    Most people of those persuasions are great people frankly

    There are a lot of differences however between those who have integrated and those that live in their own communities which I didn't understand till I lived in one of those communities because suddenly you are expected to live by their rules not the british rules
    You’re replying to the wrong person but I hear you. And I believe you. Because I’ve had friends with the exact same experience. White women literally being spat at - or grabbed, daily
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Here is a question for you.

    You live in a house you are the only people of your ethnicity in the street or indeed the surrounding streets.
    When your girlfriend is spat on by a 15 year old and called white trash and you go knock on the parents door and they tell you its her fault for not covering her arms and wearing a niquab over her hair how would you feel?
    When I lived in Jodhpur I was probably the only person of my ethnicity within 10 miles. When I lived in Kennington I was the only person of my ethnicity in my house. What’s your point exactly?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,824

    Walz: "The Republican party is stuck with Donald Trump. He's yours. You got him. You are welcome to it."

    What a veep pick.

    There isn't an insignificant chance of Walz or Vance becoming President. There are a lot of guns and nutters in America. Voters need to take this seriously.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,380
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    He really has a fabulous turn of phrase.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,728
    22/1 bet on Arshad Nadeem came through in the javelin. Shame only put £5 on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,517
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    And chatting shit on PB with random weirdos.
    Ain’t it great!
    I resent 'random'.
    I resent the 'weirdo'.


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,824
    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Here is a question for you.

    You live in a house you are the only people of your ethnicity in the street or indeed the surrounding streets.
    When your girlfriend is spat on by a 15 year old and called white trash and you go knock on the parents door and they tell you its her fault for not covering her arms and wearing a niquab over her hair how would you feel?
    When I lived in Jodhpur I was probably the only person of my ethnicity within 10 miles. When I lived in Kennington I was the only person of my ethnicity in my house. What’s your point exactly?
    I thinking he is claiming that the middle class experience and embracing of diversity is different.

    I don't think so. Most mixed race relationships are amongst the working class, for example.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,672
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    He really has a fabulous turn of phrase.
    It's not Tim Walz! Check the handle.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584
    The Harris campaign may have a slight but possibly growing issue: Walz is a better campaigner and it may become an issue.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 954
    Andy_JS said:

    "Understanding England’s anarchy
    We must condemn these lawless riots – but we must also confront the anger behind them.
    By Will Tanner"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/08/understanding-englands-anarchy

    Did he say the same about the 2011 riots.

    Also what anger must we confront? A mad man born and raised in Wales? Because he's Black? The protesters and rioters don't have any legitimate complaints.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,584

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    6h
    🤣🤣🤣
    "Trump has begun asking friends and allies how his campaign staff is doing...He has asked why Harris is raising so much more money than him...Trump has also repeatedly raised the large crowds that Harris is getting..."

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/1821550634266484998
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 401
    edited August 8
    Foxy said:

    Walz: "The Republican party is stuck with Donald Trump. He's yours. You got him. You are welcome to it."

    What a veep pick.

    There isn't an insignificant chance of Walz or Vance becoming President. There are a lot of guns and nutters in America. Voters need to take this seriously.
    As do gamblers.

    Damn I hate these nutjobs who undermine our democracies, and more importantly, my ability to generate income from this game.

    They're the reason I don't feel comfortable betting on politics any more.

    I can just about stomach natural actuarial risk, although betting on it makes me queasy.

    Calculating the likelihood of successful political violence / assassinations for the purpose of self-enrichment?

    Count me out.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171
    I’m struck this week by how quickly political tides can change when the weather is right.

    Think over the last, what, 14 days…

    Britain. SKS wins a landslide. First couple of weeks he can do no wrong, everyone’s just grateful we have grownups in charge. Then Reeves does a thoroughly predictable black hole speech and starts Sunacking future infrastructure investment. Then we get a child horrific mass murder in Southport and suddenly people are rioting and “two tier” Keir seems to be losing control of the narrative. Then just as quickly the riots die down, people start getting sentenced, and the former DPP now PM looks vindicated again while his opposition flail about.

    America: a dominant Trump is bossing an increasingly senile and lost Biden. There’s a failed assassination attempt and the next Pulitzer Prize goes to the photo of him standing defiant with blood on his ears. Nothing can stop him. Then the democrats kick out Biden and Kamala comes along, Trump picks a complete lunatic as running mate, and the entire MAGA edifice seems to be crumbling. But for how long?

    Ukraine: Russia is grinding out a slow but successful offensive taking more and more territory in the Donbas. They seem to be invincible with endless depths of people and équipement. Ukraine looks beaten after its much heralded 2023 counteroffensive crashed and burned. Then suddenly they’re in Kursk taking vast swathes of Russian terrain and Telegram channels are panicking.

    Go a bit further back. RN comfortably win the first round of the French assembly elections after Macron’s gamble seems to have backfired. A week later they’re in third place and suddenly the Melenchon loony left have the balance of power.

    Quite something. What does it teach us? Never just assume the current vibes will continue. Things can turn.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Here is a question for you.

    You live in a house you are the only people of your ethnicity in the street or indeed the surrounding streets.
    When your girlfriend is spat on by a 15 year old and called white trash and you go knock on the parents door and they tell you its her fault for not covering her arms and wearing a niquab over her hair how would you feel?
    When I lived in Jodhpur I was probably the only person of my ethnicity within 10 miles. When I lived in Kennington I was the only person of my ethnicity in my house. What’s your point exactly?
    I thinking he is claiming that the middle class experience and embracing of diversity is different.

    I don't think so. Most mixed race relationships are amongst the working class, for example.
    No, he’s saying that poorer people have less choice as to where they live. And it can be no fun at all being the only white family in an entirely conservative Muslim neighbourhood. How is this hard to grasp?

    Of course this goes both ways. Being the only minority family in a traditional WWC burb can surely be challenging, as well

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,336
    God, just seen this haggard befuddled old geezer who's apparently running for US president. Surely some sort of joke.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,527
    TimS said:

    I’m struck this week by how quickly political tides can change when the weather is right.

    Think over the last, what, 14 days…

    Britain. SKS wins a landslide. First couple of weeks he can do no wrong, everyone’s just grateful we have grownups in charge. Then Reeves does a thoroughly predictable black hole speech and starts Sunacking future infrastructure investment. Then we get a child horrific mass murder in Southport and suddenly people are rioting and “two tier” Keir seems to be losing control of the narrative. Then just as quickly the riots die down, people start getting sentenced, and the former DPP now PM looks vindicated again while his opposition flail about.

    America: a dominant Trump is bossing an increasingly senile and lost Biden. There’s a failed assassination attempt and the next Pulitzer Prize goes to the photo of him standing defiant with blood on his ears. Nothing can stop him. Then the democrats kick out Biden and Kamala comes along, Trump picks a complete lunatic as running mate, and the entire MAGA edifice seems to be crumbling. But for how long?

    Ukraine: Russia is grinding out a slow but successful offensive taking more and more territory in the Donbas. They seem to be invincible with endless depths of people and équipement. Ukraine looks beaten after its much heralded 2023 counteroffensive crashed and burned. Then suddenly they’re in Kursk taking vast swathes of Russian terrain and Telegram channels are panicking.

    Go a bit further back. RN comfortably win the first round of the French assembly elections after Macron’s gamble seems to have backfired. A week later they’re in third place and suddenly the Melenchon loony left have the balance of power.

    Quite something. What does it teach us? Never just assume the current vibes will continue. Things can turn.

    You haven’t noticed Starmer’s approval ratings in free fall, then?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,674
    edited August 8

    The Harris campaign may have a slight but possibly growing issue: Walz is a better campaigner and it may become an issue.

    Well, he's the most interesting VP pick since Dan Quayle.

    The VP debate between him and Vance is going to be interesting to say the least. The VP is like what was anecdotally claimed for Carlsberg back in the day - "he reaches the voters the main candidate cannot reach".
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,321
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Here is a question for you.

    You live in a house you are the only people of your ethnicity in the street or indeed the surrounding streets.
    When your girlfriend is spat on by a 15 year old and called white trash and you go knock on the parents door and they tell you its her fault for not covering her arms and wearing a niquab over her hair how would you feel?
    When I lived in Jodhpur I was probably the only person of my ethnicity within 10 miles. When I lived in Kennington I was the only person of my ethnicity in my house. What’s your point exactly?
    I thinking he is claiming that the middle class experience and embracing of diversity is different.

    I don't think so. Most mixed race relationships are amongst the working class, for example.
    The middle classes don't have to live in the kind of neighbourhoods where the spitting incident would happen though, do they?

    I grew up around nice middle class muslims. If they had those sort of opinions, they kept them to themselves, like good uptight British middle class people of any race or religion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,037
    kinabalu said:

    God, just seen this haggard befuddled old geezer who's apparently running for US president. Surely some sort of joke.

    Nope. And though hope is rising otherwise, he's still in with a real shot.

    Welcome to an actually polarised society.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,171
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Trump looks old.

    I thought the same. I wonder if the shooting has knacked him. Wouldn’t be at all surprising

    Please God let him withdraw and get a good sane firm Republican candidate
    No, Trump needs to be defeated (humiliated) as Trump. Just like Labour needed 2019 to shake off Corbyn. Then the GOP can start being less weird.
    Sounds like this press conference was a bit of a fiasco for him. But it won't turn off the faithful.
    Listened to a bit of it. Stream-of-consciousness brain-dump. What you'd expect from him, I guess, but extraordinary when you think of it.
    And then imagine what he could be like in 5 years time, coming to the end of a second term, convinced he possesses the judgement of Solomon, and vindicated by an election victory...
    Most people of those persuasions are great people frankly

    There are a lot of differences however between those who have integrated and those that live in their own communities which I didn't understand till I lived in one of those communities because suddenly you are expected to live by their rules not the british rules
    You see the same in migrant communities of Brits abroad. Some integrate and learn the language, most don’t. Except there’s a particularly irritating genre of Brit who is so proudly integrated that it becomes almost self-hating Britophobia. I think that tendency exists in pretty much every immigrant community.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,957
    edited August 8

    a

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Tres said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    TimS said:

    The occasional joy of home alone.

    Many single posters will not appreciate or understand this. But the family are all in France and I am back here, working and paying the bills, before joining them a few days later.

    We all love our families, our spouses and children. But a couple of days at home on one’s own (it was supposed to be 10 days but car theft put paid to that) is liberating.

    I can do domestic jobs far more efficiently than if there were others involved. I can cook weird food without fear of rejection. I can put angostura bitters in a bottle of lager. I can iron clothes knowing they won’t be worn or soiled for another couple of weeks. I can leave washing out on the line in the rain by accident and then bring it inside without anyone noticing.

    I don’t even need to see my friends. Years ago they all lived in London so a home alone night meant texting them and going out, which was nice and all that but now I have a choice because they’ve all fucked off to the provinces. So it’s a night in with angostura bitters and surplus lager.

    Coincidentally I am also home alone (not counting the dog) as Mrs P. is spending a few nights with her father after his cataract operation.

    Quite nice to chill and slob out a bit but I'll be getting lonely by Monday when she comes back.
    Integration is a huge problem, I lived in slough, I worked well with ethnic minorites, many of my neighbours were ethnic minorities and we all got on well....then I bought a house in a part of town that was more working class....we were the only white people on the street. It was a very different experience with our new neighbours....indeed my live in girlfriend and I split up as she needed to get out moving back to dublins as it took a long time to sell the house.

    She got spat on and called white trash two or three times a month by the children of our neighbours and she could no longer take it. Her crime? Wearing a t shirt
    I think a lot here live in the suburbs, we did when renting and really didn't understand the antipathy. Till we bought a house in a non middle class area where we were definitely not a good fit as far as our neighbours were concerned
    talking to yourself?
    Oh do fuck off, get off your middle class high horse. I gave an honest assessment of what I experience you don't like it as it spits on your false assumptions
    Guess what white people can be bad people
    So can muslims
    So can Black peope
    So can buddhists
    So can Hindus
    So can jews
    Liking and even enjoying social, racial and religious differences is a Western middle class thing.

    For much of the rest of the world, the different is kind of ok, if it’s only passing through.
    I honestly don't think that is true. There have always been examples of integrated societies. Differences become sectarian when difference is weaponised by those with power to take advantage who think it will benefit them. Those with power can choose to work the other way, too.

    Go back not very far and national differences even insider Europe were treated as horribly sectarian.

    It is a choice which can be made either way.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,336
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    I’m struck this week by how quickly political tides can change when the weather is right.

    Think over the last, what, 14 days…

    Britain. SKS wins a landslide. First couple of weeks he can do no wrong, everyone’s just grateful we have grownups in charge. Then Reeves does a thoroughly predictable black hole speech and starts Sunacking future infrastructure investment. Then we get a child horrific mass murder in Southport and suddenly people are rioting and “two tier” Keir seems to be losing control of the narrative. Then just as quickly the riots die down, people start getting sentenced, and the former DPP now PM looks vindicated again while his opposition flail about.

    America: a dominant Trump is bossing an increasingly senile and lost Biden. There’s a failed assassination attempt and the next Pulitzer Prize goes to the photo of him standing defiant with blood on his ears. Nothing can stop him. Then the democrats kick out Biden and Kamala comes along, Trump picks a complete lunatic as running mate, and the entire MAGA edifice seems to be crumbling. But for how long?

    Ukraine: Russia is grinding out a slow but successful offensive taking more and more territory in the Donbas. They seem to be invincible with endless depths of people and équipement. Ukraine looks beaten after its much heralded 2023 counteroffensive crashed and burned. Then suddenly they’re in Kursk taking vast swathes of Russian terrain and Telegram channels are panicking.

    Go a bit further back. RN comfortably win the first round of the French assembly elections after Macron’s gamble seems to have backfired. A week later they’re in third place and suddenly the Melenchon loony left have the balance of power.

    Quite something. What does it teach us? Never just assume the current vibes will continue. Things can turn.

    You haven’t noticed Starmer’s approval ratings in free fall, then?
    The only SDS sufferer who supposedly voted for
    him!

    You just keep on giving.
This discussion has been closed.