Veteran debate moderator Chris Wallace talking about Biden's performance: "You can't come back" from this. "You can't be on a stage where tens of millions of Americans watched you, and come up empty, and that's what he did tonight."
Veteran debate moderator Chris Wallace talking about Biden's performance: "You can't come back" from this. "You can't be on a stage where tens of millions of Americans watched you, and come up empty, and that's what he did tonight."
I like Biden but he has to remember he could totally sink downballot races. The line he had a cold isn’t good enough.
What Democrats needed was his State of the Union performance sadly they didn’t get that . This is the thing with power , once you get it you never want to let it go .
Biden for all his positives is acting totally selfishly . He could enable an absolute calamity for Dems in November .
I like Biden but he has to remember he could totally sink downballot races. The line he had a cold isn’t good enough.
What Democrats needed was his State of the Union performance sadly they didn’t get that . This is the thing with power , once you get it you never want to let it go .
Biden for all his positives is acting totally selfishly . He could enable an absolute calamity for Dems in November .
My biggest fear is that Biden, through obstinacy, will do a Ruth Bader Ginsberg
I like Biden but he has to remember he could totally sink downballot races. The line he had a cold isn’t good enough.
What Democrats needed was his State of the Union performance sadly they didn’t get that . This is the thing with power , once you get it you never want to let it go .
Biden for all his positives is acting totally selfishly . He could enable an absolute calamity for Dems in November .
My biggest fear is that Biden, through obstinacy, will do a Ruth Bader Ginsberg
It’s sad because Trump is beatable . This isn’t just about the Presidency but about loads of downballot races.
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It doesn’t just feature every titanic figure of post-war British politics: you can expect to see all of the UK’s most famous political personalities at different ages and stages of their careers. Watch Thatcher sit as a wine-drinking panel member on the 1970 election programme, see her iconic interview with Jon Snow upon arriving at Downing Street in 1979, and watch her live reaction to Tony Blair’s victory in 1997. Watch Labour leader Hugh Gaitskell concede the 1959 election in a live interview with ITN. Watch the political stars of Harold Wilson and Edward Heath rise and fall with the shifting of the British political landscape through the '60s and '70s. Watch Diane Abbott become the UK’s first black female MP in 1987. Watch Michael Portillo lose his seat ten years later. Clement Attlee, Harold Macmillan, Michael Foot, Jeremy Thorpe, David Owen, Enoch Powell, Tony Benn, James Callaghan: they're all here, presented to you by ITN icons and heavyweights from Reggie Bosanquet to Alastair Burnet to Jon Snow. Watch students run riot in the fountains of Trafalgar Square in 1966. Meet the computers: Deuce, the 1959 result-analysing machine; and KDF-9, the singing star of the 1964 programme. And hear the fabulous election night theme songs from each decade. Election junkies, politics nerds, history geeks, and lovers of retro British television: there’s something here for everyone. Only on @ITNArchive . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HT7zlKljc
This might be worth bookmarking to dip into during the quieter times on election night.
I like Biden but he has to remember he could totally sink downballot races. The line he had a cold isn’t good enough.
What Democrats needed was his State of the Union performance sadly they didn’t get that . This is the thing with power , once you get it you never want to let it go .
Biden for all his positives is acting totally selfishly . He could enable an absolute calamity for Dems in November .
My biggest fear is that Biden, through obstinacy, will do a Ruth Bader Ginsberg
It’s sad because Trump is beatable . This isn’t just about the Presidency but about loads of downballot races.
I don't understand this. The voters don't hate Biden, they just think he's too old. And Trump drives turnout on both sides. So how does Biden damage candidates down-ballot?
I presume no more debates now for POTUS. They aren't going to risk Biden again.
Disagree. If the Dems are ahead at that time then that'll show the voters don't care that much, and if they're behind then they'll want to roll the dice.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
I doubt tonight makes much difference, most Biden voters already knew he was old and forgetful, they are largely voting for him to stop Trump.
There is also no polling evidence any other Democrat polls better v Trump than Biden, indeed most poll worse and we already know that the only non Biden Democrat to face Trump in a general election was beaten by Trump in the EC whereas Biden beat Trump in the EC in 2020
No, this is different. People are genuinely panicking
I'm in the US now, and watched parts of the debate with some Democrat friends. Few of them could disguise the horror on their faces at Biden's performance. Of course none of them had any idea about the logistics of a candidate dropping out now.
I doubt tonight makes much difference, most Biden voters already knew he was old and forgetful, they are largely voting for him to stop Trump.
There is also no polling evidence any other Democrat polls better v Trump than Biden, indeed most poll worse and we already know that the only non Biden Democrat to face Trump in a general election was beaten by Trump in the EC whereas Biden beat Trump in the EC in 2020
No, this is different. People are genuinely panicking
I'm in the US now, and watched parts of the debate with some Democrat friends. Few of them could disguise the horror on their faces at Biden's performance. Of course none of them had any idea about the logistics of a candidate dropping out now.
I can't imagine the horror on their faces was as bad as the horror on Biden's face for the majority of it.
There is a second debate scheduled for 10th September. It feels cruel and inhuman to have him go through all of this again. I think we can put to bed the claims that he isn't mentally impaired now.
Trump on the other hand, never changes, he is just going to lie and lie and lie. But does have some quality zingers that are improvised. It would be funny if they weren't running for leader of the free world.
No sugarcoating that. He has been a good president, and his administration continues to be fairly effective - but that debate performance was a disaster.
Until now, there's been no practical way for the Democrats to change their nominee. That's no longer the case.
The only upside from all of that is that the debate happened now, and not in October.
A caretaker might not be a bad idea but one thing the tories are going to need to recognise is that by the time they are ready to vie for power again it will be 10, maybe 15, years from now. Forget their latest denial buzz phrase ‘voter volatility’: the electorate ain’t coming back anytime soon. When you lose the ‘economic competence’ mantle it takes a decade or more to regain it, arguably a generation. And that’s what Liz Truss has bequeathed to the Party.
So, a next generation leader is required but it’s a poisoned chalice: just look at William Hague.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
On the other hand, how effective has a 'conventional opposition' really been in effectively scrutinising government ?
An unconventional opposition, in the circumstances where a government has a supermajority, on a relatively low percentage of the vote, might still be able to be quite effective.
No sugarcoating that. He has been a good president, and his administration continues to be fairly effective - but that debate performance was a disaster.
Until now, there's been no practical way for the Democrats to change their nominee. That's no longer the case.
The only upside from all of that is that the debate happened now, and not in October.
The downside is if they don't get him to step down, the party might tear itself apart between now and November. If he still retains any political judgment, he ought to see that.
No sugarcoating that. He has been a good president, and his administration continues to be fairly effective - but that debate performance was a disaster.
Until now, there's been no practical way for the Democrats to change their nominee. That's no longer the case.
The only upside from all of that is that the debate happened now, and not in October.
Just checking out my Betfair POTUS position. Heavily green on Harris as nominee, and on Whitmer too.
C'mon Dems. Kamala isn't a great candidate but she will go down fighting at least.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
On the other hand, how effective has a 'conventional opposition' really been in effectively scrutinising government ?
An unconventional opposition, in the circumstances where a government has a supermajority, on a relatively low percentage of the vote, might still be able to be quite effective.
I agree.
As you know, I think Pigeon’s point was about parliamentary procedures e.g. committees. But in terms of the main chamber they could be effective.
I am content with FPTP. I didn’t complain about it before and it would be hypocritical to do so if and when my party of choice suddenly find they’re in for a shellacking.
This doesn’t apply to those who have consistently condemned our electoral system.
Oh dear, just woke up and seen the BBC headline on the debate.
If Biden loses to Trump, this is absolutely awful, for the USA and the world.
Not good. Not good at all.
There is bad, there is England batting collapse bad, there Sunak campaign bad, there is Radiohead live bad, there is pineapple on pizza bad....and then there was that debate, especially Biden.
No sugarcoating that. He has been a good president, and his administration continues to be fairly effective - but that debate performance was a disaster.
Until now, there's been no practical way for the Democrats to change their nominee. That's no longer the case.
The only upside from all of that is that the debate happened now, and not in October.
Just checking out my Betfair POTUS position. Heavily green on Harris as nominee, and on Whitmer too.
C'mon Dems. Kamala isn't a great candidate but she will go down fighting at least.
The contrast with Buttigieg's marathon, bravura performance pulling apart hostile questioning from a GOP Congress yesterday, is excruciating.
No sugarcoating that. He has been a good president, and his administration continues to be fairly effective - but that debate performance was a disaster.
Until now, there's been no practical way for the Democrats to change their nominee. That's no longer the case.
The only upside from all of that is that the debate happened now, and not in October.
Just checking out my Betfair POTUS position. Heavily green on Harris as nominee, and on Whitmer too.
C'mon Dems. Kamala isn't a great candidate but she will go down fighting at least.
The contrast with Buttigieg's marathon, bravura performance pulling apart hostile questioning from a GOP Congress yesterday, is excruciating.
I'm green on him too, but not as much. As VP Kamala gets the gig.
Former Obama campaign aide Ravi Gupta on X/Twitter:
“Every Democrat I know is texting that this is bad. Just say it publicly and begin the hard work of creating space in the convention for a selection process. I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump, but this is a suicide mission.”
Biden 1.64-1.65 Newsom 5.8-5.9 M Obama 16.5-19 H Clinton 18.5-29 Harris 16.5-19 Whitmer 32-80
Interesting how Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris prices, including the spread on the prices, are currently identical. If Biden is persuaded to step aside will the Dems quickly crown one of the above in a backroom deal?
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
The narrative is horrendous. The left leaning media are in full on panic mode.
David Plouffe - a Democratic strategist who orchestrated Barack Obama's campaign in 2008 - tells MSNBC's Rachel Maddow the debate was "kind of a Defcon 1 moment”. Plouffe says Trump and Biden looked "30 years apart". As a reminder - Biden is 81, and Trump is 78.
Biden, if he bows out of candidacy as a one term President leaves a positive legacy for the history books. If he is defeated by Trump his legacy will be that of a stubborn old man who paved the way for a Trump autocracy.
If he doesn't run he can pardon Hunter. That has to be an incentive.
Anyway, Glasto today. Looking forward to Dua Lipa. Her Future Nostalgia was the perfect antidote to lockdown. You have to lean into it and embrace. Great fun.
Biden, if he bows out of candidacy as a one term President leaves a positive legacy for the history books. If he is defeated by Trump his legacy will be that of a stubborn old man who paved the way for a Trump autocracy.
If he doesn't run he can pardon Hunter. That has to be an incentive.
He's promised not to pardon Hunter (but of course could break the promise). However if he were to stand down as president (not just nominee, which is weird because if you can't do the job then why are you still president) then President Harris could pardon Hunter.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Just read the reports and watched highlights of the Biden v Trump debate and it just left me feeling very sad for Biden as I do think he is genuinely a nice person
Dementia is a very upsetting illness, not only for the one suffering but also their families
I do wonder if his wife should step in and persuade him to pass on this burden, not only for his sake but for democracy and the US
Tonight was a stark reminder to those who flippantly refer to people as nutters, demented, or other unkind words that there is always a personal side to this terrible disease
My father in law died in our home with severe dementia, so much so that as he died with his family around him and holding his hands he had no idea who we were
Kindness should if you excuse the pun, trump politics, and just let him retire to his family and loved ones
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Is she?
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
One day we might find out what the White House has been like the past few years. I will be interesting to find out who has actually been making the decisions, particularly of late. The bloke in the debate after a week off and can't function for 90 minutes, certainly isn't the one doing it.
DD would be a very good temporary leader. The issue is That he is unlikely to hold his seat.
I can't take seriously someone who called a vanity by election in a safe seat he couldn't lose to prove a relatively spurious point.
Well for a start it wasn't a spurious point at all. Some of us actually take civil rights seriously. Just a shame you are apparently not one of them.
Personally I have no problem with identity cards, particularly in the light of photo ID for voting purposes. Nonetheless if one does have an issue, and I understand why that might be the case, the vehicle he used was pathetic.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
I’m nearly always right. Learn from this
Nah. You swing out wildly and every once in a while the tail sticks into the right place on the donkey’s derriere.
Just read the reports and watched highlights of the Biden v Trump debate and it just left me feeling very sad for Biden as I do think he is genuinely a nice person
Dementia is a very upsetting illness, not only for the one suffering but also their families
I do wonder if his wife should step in and persuade him to pass on this burden, not only for his sake but for democracy and the US
Tonight was a stark reminder to those who flippantly refer to people as nutters, demented, or other unkind words that there is always a personal side to this terrible disease
My father in law died in our home with severe dementia, so much so that as he died with his family around him and holding his hands he had no idea who we were
Kindness should if you excuse the pun, trump politics, and just let him retire to his family and loved ones
The people handling him and the media have got serious questions to answer. They have been gas lighting people for ages now that there is absolutely nothing wrong with him.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
Just read the reports and watched highlights of the Biden v Trump debate and it just left me feeling very sad for Biden as I do think he is genuinely a nice person
Dementia is a very upsetting illness, not only for the one suffering but also their families
I do wonder if his wife should step in and persuade him to pass on this burden, not only for his sake but for democracy and the US
Tonight was a stark reminder to those who flippantly refer to people as nutters, demented, or other unkind words that there is always a personal side to this terrible disease
My father in law died in our home with severe dementia, so much so that as he died with his family around him and holding his hands he had no idea who we were
Kindness should if you excuse the pun, trump politics, and just let him retire to his family and loved ones
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Is she?
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
There’s a reason Biden got the nomination last time, the rest are useless.
One day we might find out what the White House has been like the past few years. I will be interesting to find out who has actually been making the decisions, particularly of late. The bloke in the debate after a week off and can't function for 90 minutes, certainly isn't the one doing it.
One day we might find out what the White House has been like the past few years. I will be interesting to find out who has actually been making the decisions, particularly of late. The bloke in the debate after a week off and can't function for 90 minutes, certainly isn't the one doing it.
Surely this isn't news. He was tweeting whilst debating !
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
Look, here’s a tip. Take it or leave it.
If you yourself dialled down the rhetoric, cut the personal abuse, flaming, and trolling, people wouldn’t have to dig around for the occasional nugget. Most of what you post would be golden.
I’m not anticipating that you will listen but it’s meant kindly and seriously.
DD would be a very good temporary leader. The issue is That he is unlikely to hold his seat.
I can't take seriously someone who called a vanity by election in a safe seat he couldn't lose to prove a relatively spurious point.
Well for a start it wasn't a spurious point at all. Some of us actually take civil rights seriously. Just a shame you are apparently not one of them.
Do you think it was for noble reasons Richard rather than just a late life crisis?
It all seemed unnecessarily vainglorious.
Absolutely for something he has fought for for decades. Hardly a late life crisis. His problem was -and is- that both parties really don't give a toss about civil liberties and senior figures are actively opposed to them.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Is she?
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
There are definitely other people who would be better candidates (Whitmer, Buttigeig, KLOBUCHAR). But there's an argument (not saying I buy it) for Michelle Obama based on how you get there.
The next-in-line is Kamala Harris, who is a black woman with a small but fairly demented fanbase who polls badly in the swing states. If you want to pass over her then the way to minimize the resulting fireworks is to select another black woman, and one with a decent amount of experience and/or star power. That gets you down to Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama.
DD would be a very good temporary leader. The issue is That he is unlikely to hold his seat.
I can't take seriously someone who called a vanity by election in a safe seat he couldn't lose to prove a relatively spurious point.
Well for a start it wasn't a spurious point at all. Some of us actually take civil rights seriously. Just a shame you are apparently not one of them.
Personally I have no problem with identity cards, particularly in the light of photo ID for voting purposes. Nonetheless if one does have an issue, and I understand why that might be the case, the vehicle he used was pathetic.
That fact you don't care about the issue is a major part of the problem.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
See also lab leak. 'PB Morale' comes ahead of people actually using their brain on here. The sheer amount of people who've sworn blind to me that Trump is more senile than Biden.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
It’s not a stupid system. It does what it aims to do very well.
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
See also lab leak. 'PB Morale' comes ahead of people actually using their brain on here. The sheer amount of people who've sworn blind to me that Trump is more senile than Biden.
Trump is absolutely worse than Biden.
I'd take a full blown senile Biden (rather than a doddering old man Biden which is what he actually is) over Trump in any health, any day.
Biden 1.64-1.65 Newsom 5.8-5.9 M Obama 16.5-19 H Clinton 18.5-29 Harris 16.5-19 Whitmer 32-80
Interesting how Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris prices, including the spread on the prices, are currently identical. If Biden is persuaded to step aside will the Dems quickly crown one of the above in a backroom deal?
Biden last price matched to be Dem nominee 1.98. Quite a shift in his price in 40 minutes.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Is she?
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
There are definitely other people who would be better candidates (Whitmer, Buttigeig, KLOBUCHAR). But there's an argument (not saying I buy it) for Michelle Obama based on how you get there.
The next-in-line is Kamala Harris, who is a black woman with a small but fairly demented fanbase who polls badly in the swing states. If you want to pass over her then the way to minimize the resulting fireworks is to select another black woman, and one with a decent amount of experience and/or star power. That gets you down to Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama.
Wow. Well, I’ve seen people on here mocking those who would place bets on Michelle Obama for the Presidency. Perhaps it’s not looking quite so outlandish now but an awful lot of things have to fall into place for that outcome. Starting perhaps with Jill Biden?
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
It’s not a stupid system. It does what it aims to do very well.
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
Ok it produces some daft results at a national level. Personally I would go for multi member constituencies and single transferable votes. Try and get both local representation and a better balance.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
It’s not a stupid system. It does what it aims to do very well.
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
It’s not a stupid system. It does what it aims to do very well.
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
To which I will add that
FPTP does tend to produce a decisive, and usually stable, Government. Coalitions have a pretty chequered history around the world.
FPTP also means that minority parties are not disproportionately powerful, especially in coalition through the tail wagging the dog. Personally I think that’s a price worth paying for keeping extremism at bay, although I’m open to being persuaded on this topic.
This is actually an opportunity for the Dems. It’s come horribly late - because so many have been in wilful denial (like quite a few pb-ers on here) - but this is now so bad even they have to act.
Presumably the wife must do the deed. The POTUS gracefully resigns due to illness. Problem solved. Do it this week
Already massive damage is done because it will alllow republicans to say “look you were about to foist a demented man on us as president”. But that can be fought
Biden cannot fight. If he continues he will lose this election
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
See also lab leak. 'PB Morale' comes ahead of people actually using their brain on here. The sheer amount of people who've sworn blind to me that Trump is more senile than Biden.
Trump is absolutely worse than Biden.
I'd take a full blown senile Biden (rather than a doddering old man Biden which is what he actually is) over Trump in any health, any day.
The problem is the American electorate may not.
Trump looked composed and he even got in some retorts. However on the whole he spewed out nonsensical garbage.
That said, Biden needs to stand aside for the future of the free world.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Is she?
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
There are definitely other people who would be better candidates (Whitmer, Buttigeig, KLOBUCHAR). But there's an argument (not saying I buy it) for Michelle Obama based on how you get there.
The next-in-line is Kamala Harris, who is a black woman with a small but fairly demented fanbase who polls badly in the swing states. If you want to pass over her then the way to minimize the resulting fireworks is to select another black woman, and one with a decent amount of experience and/or star power. That gets you down to Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama.
This is key. There is no point Biden stepping aside if his replacement cannot win the key swing states. Somehow the Dem party needs find a way to rally around the candidate likeliest to beat Trump.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Every so often, you are right and the very clever people on here are wrong. The cherry on the cake will be Michelle Obama reluctantly accepting the nomination. She’s their only chance now.
Is she?
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
There are definitely other people who would be better candidates (Whitmer, Buttigeig, KLOBUCHAR). But there's an argument (not saying I buy it) for Michelle Obama based on how you get there.
The next-in-line is Kamala Harris, who is a black woman with a small but fairly demented fanbase who polls badly in the swing states. If you want to pass over her then the way to minimize the resulting fireworks is to select another black woman, and one with a decent amount of experience and/or star power. That gets you down to Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama.
Wow. Well, I’ve seen people on here mocking those who would place bets on Michelle Obama for the Presidency. Perhaps it’s not looking quite so outlandish now but an awful lot of things have to fall into place for that outcome. Starting perhaps with Jill Biden?
Yes, I definitely mocked it and I still think the odds are wrong but maybe I know nothing.
Getting Michelle Obama the nomination requires exactly the right amount of panic. If the polling shows no damage and Biden carries on, no Michelle. If Biden quits right away then it's Kamala, no Michelle. If the whole party goes into proper "shit shit shit we are so fucked" mode then everyone forgets about Kamala's feelings and picks the most electable person they can find, Buttigeig or Whitmer, I guess? So the dart has to fall in a very narrow place, and then she still has to say yes.
So I don't think it makes sense unless someone has inside information that this is actually a plan someone important is actually cooking up.
What is clear to me is that people are in denial about Trump. It seems more likely than not that he will win. There is this sense that with Starmer we are going 'back to normal', that centrism is back. But this is escapism and delusion. In Bidens case the failure arises because there is no other candidate that can project a popular/election winning message, but the fact is that voters are turning to the right for answers, because they are the only side with answers, however unpalatable and horrible they are. This is because the 'centre' are unable to questions of popular interest and importance. IE what is the numerical limit to the amount of asylum seekers that can be accommodated? No answer from the left, the question would be regarded as 'disgraceful', 'racist', etc. But the right have no such qualms. On Ukraine: what is upper limit to support for Ukraine, and how long should it go on for? To the left, asking the question is disgraceful, it would be evidence of immorality and bad character. But the right have answers. Stop spending money. Sort the situation out. It may not be the right answer, but it is an answer.
If you end up with a situation whereby there is multiple failings and governing parties/coalitions everywhere are collapsing, then the obvious thing is that people look to is the side with some credible answers... and it is the 'far right'. That explains the likely political outcomes coming forward in USA, France. The belief that the UK is immune is wishful thinking to me. Starmers appeal is an ocean wide and as deep as a puddle. I think there will be a rapid breakthrough on the far right, likely not through the reform party, but it will come in the next few years.
Already massive damage is done because it will alllow republicans to say “look you were about to foist a demented man on us as president”. But that can be fought
On topic. We have to see if there is a vacancy. If Sunak wins a 1992 style comeback there will be no vacancy and your money will be tied up a very long time.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
See also lab leak. 'PB Morale' comes ahead of people actually using their brain on here. The sheer amount of people who've sworn blind to me that Trump is more senile than Biden.
Trump is absolutely worse than Biden.
I'd take a full blown senile Biden (rather than a doddering old man Biden which is what he actually is) over Trump in any health, any day.
The problem is the American electorate may not.
Um, your words are in print here, we can all see that I wrote 'more senile than', not 'worse' which is an entirely different concept. Are you sill saying that Trump is more senile than Biden?
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DID WE TELL YOU: BIDEN IS SENILE, THIS IS A DISASTER
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
Didn't he lock himself for a week at Camp David to prep for this debate and be well rested?
Just last week some twit on here tried to claim that Biden wandering into the distance at the G7 was a “trumpite lie” I was repeating - why? - and that Biden was just “trying to talk to different people”
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
See also lab leak. 'PB Morale' comes ahead of people actually using their brain on here. The sheer amount of people who've sworn blind to me that Trump is more senile than Biden.
Trump is absolutely worse than Biden.
I'd take a full blown senile Biden (rather than a doddering old man Biden which is what he actually is) over Trump in any health, any day.
The problem is the American electorate may not.
Trump looked composed and he even got in some retorts. However on the whole he spewed out nonsensical garbage.
That said, Biden needs to stand aside for the future of the free world.
Trump spouting garbage says nothing about his health. He's always done that.
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
It’s not a stupid system. It does what it aims to do very well.
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
To which I will add that
FPTP does tend to produce a decisive, and usually stable, Government. Coalitions have a pretty chequered history around the world.
FPTP also means that minority parties are not disproportionately powerful, especially in coalition through the tail wagging the dog. Personally I think that’s a price worth paying for keeping extremism at bay, although I’m open to being persuaded on this topic.
We haven't seen stable governments since 2015.
STV with multimember constituencies is the way to go. Not only do you have the constituency link, you have a choice to go to if one or other is not interested in your problem.
What is clear to me is that […]. Starmers appeal is an ocean wide and as deep as a puddle. I think there will be a rapid breakthrough on the far right, likely not through the reform party, but it will come in the next few years.
Really you are conflating a whole variety of circumstances, nuances, geopolitics, parties and allegiances into your own predetermined political belief.
Instead of the obvious: the President has dementia.
p.s. and the terrible mistake of thinking the US and the UK are politically the same, let alone similar
Reflecting on the state of the Tory party it would perhaps be best for the country if they were not the official opposition. They will be too busy fighting each other to provide much challenge and resistance to problems created by a massive Labour majority.
Frankly, any likely scenario in which the Tories are ground down into third spot also implies a Liberal Democrat group so small that it won't be able to function fully as a Commons Opposition in the conventional sense. Procedural changes with respect to issues such as the composition of select committees would likely be needed, and a lot of shadow ministerial positions would need to be filled from the Lords.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
I have never been a fan of FPTP, it is a stupid system and needs to go. But actually I don’t agree that Davey and the Lib Dem’s would not be an effective opposition. They have constantly demonstrated an ability to be effective campaigners with limited resources. I think they would certainly pick their fights. But I think we would see less confrontational but more effective national governance. Still I expect the Tories to hang on to enough seats to hang on to the role. That will lead to 5 years of chaos as the Tories fight each other while trying to act as an effective opposition. I suspect they will do neither thing very well.
It’s not a stupid system. It does what it aims to do very well.
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
To which I will add that
FPTP does tend to produce a decisive, and usually stable, Government. Coalitions have a pretty chequered history around the world.
FPTP also means that minority parties are not disproportionately powerful, especially in coalition through the tail wagging the dog. Personally I think that’s a price worth paying for keeping extremism at bay, although I’m open to being persuaded on this topic.
Of the last 4 elections, half produced hung Parliaments.
Comments
Did you think Biden died on his arse...raise your hand....
Alexander, Benjamin, Charlotte, Daniel, Emily, Fiona, Gabriel, Hannah, Isaac, Jessica, Kevin, Laura, Michael, Natalie, Oliver, Penelope, Quentin, Rachel, Samuel, Victoria...
Veteran debate moderator Chris Wallace talking about Biden's performance: "You can't come back" from this. "You can't be on a stage where tens of millions of Americans watched you, and come up empty, and that's what he did tonight."
What Democrats needed was his State of the Union performance sadly they didn’t get that . This is the thing with power , once you get it you never want to let it go .
Biden for all his positives is acting totally selfishly . He could enable an absolute calamity for Dems in November .
Tune into at 9:45pm GMT on 4 July 2024 for ITN Archive’s Alternative Election Night, a spectacular real-time mash up of every ITN overnight election programme from 1959 to 1997. Throughout the night, ITN Archive will bring you the most iconic moments from British electoral history, as well as the most characterful ITN election night programming from over the years.
It doesn’t just feature every titanic figure of post-war British politics: you can expect to see all of the UK’s most famous political personalities at different ages and stages of their careers. Watch Thatcher sit as a wine-drinking panel member on the 1970 election programme, see her iconic interview with Jon Snow upon arriving at Downing Street in 1979, and watch her live reaction to Tony Blair’s victory in 1997. Watch Labour leader Hugh Gaitskell concede the 1959 election in a live interview with ITN. Watch the political stars of Harold Wilson and Edward Heath rise and fall with the shifting of the British political landscape through the '60s and '70s. Watch Diane Abbott become the UK’s first black female MP in 1987. Watch Michael Portillo lose his seat ten years later. Clement Attlee, Harold Macmillan, Michael Foot, Jeremy Thorpe, David Owen, Enoch Powell, Tony Benn, James Callaghan: they're all here, presented to you by ITN icons and heavyweights from Reggie Bosanquet to Alastair Burnet to Jon Snow. Watch students run riot in the fountains of Trafalgar Square in 1966. Meet the computers: Deuce, the 1959 result-analysing machine; and KDF-9, the singing star of the 1964 programme. And hear the fabulous election night theme songs from each decade. Election junkies, politics nerds, history geeks, and lovers of retro British television: there’s something here for everyone. Only on @ITNArchive .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0HT7zlKljc
This might be worth bookmarking to dip into during the quieter times on election night.
There is a second debate scheduled for 10th September. It feels cruel and inhuman to have him go through all of this again. I think we can put to bed the claims that he isn't mentally impaired now.
Trump on the other hand, never changes, he is just going to lie and lie and lie. But does have some quality zingers that are improvised. It would be funny if they weren't running for leader of the free world.
He has been a good president, and his administration continues to be fairly effective - but that debate performance was a disaster.
Until now, there's been no practical way for the Democrats to change their nominee. That's no longer the case.
The only upside from all of that is that the debate happened now, and not in October.
I don’t think Liam Fox is safe in his seat? It’s predicted to go Labour:
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Somerset North
A caretaker might not be a bad idea but one thing the tories are going to need to recognise is that by the time they are ready to vie for power again it will be 10, maybe 15, years from now. Forget their latest denial buzz phrase ‘voter volatility’: the electorate ain’t coming back anytime soon. When you lose the ‘economic competence’ mantle it takes a decade or more to regain it, arguably a generation. And that’s what Liz Truss has bequeathed to the Party.
So, a next generation leader is required but it’s a poisoned chalice: just look at William Hague.
Still, this is what you get from a perverse electoral system which could quite plausibly deliver the biggest Labour majority in history with a vote smaller, in both absolute numbers and share, than that received by Jeremy Corbyn when he lost in 2017.
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1806554854002749643
An unconventional opposition, in the circumstances where a government has a supermajority, on a relatively low percentage of the vote, might still be able to be quite effective.
If he still retains any political judgment, he ought to see that.
C'mon Dems. Kamala isn't a great candidate but she will go down fighting at least.
If Biden loses to Trump, this is absolutely awful, for the USA and the world.
Not good. Not good at all.
As you know, I think Pigeon’s point was about parliamentary procedures e.g. committees. But in terms of the main chamber they could be effective.
I am content with FPTP. I didn’t complain about it before and it would be hypocritical to do so if and when my party of choice suddenly find they’re in for a shellacking.
This doesn’t apply to those who have consistently condemned our electoral system.
“Every Democrat I know is texting that this is bad. Just say it publicly and begin the hard work of creating space in the convention for a selection process. I’ll vote for a corpse over Trump, but this is a suicide mission.”
Biden 1.64-1.65
Newsom 5.8-5.9
M Obama 16.5-19
H Clinton 18.5-29
Harris 16.5-19
Whitmer 32-80
Interesting how Michelle Obama and Kamala Harris prices, including the spread on the prices, are currently identical. If Biden is persuaded to step aside will the Dems quickly crown one of the above in a backroom deal?
Sometimes, the obvious is the obvious.
Intrigued as to the plan for squaring “Biden can’t run” with “Biden is fine until January”?
Golf
https://x.com/burrytracker/status/1806518144812671266?s=61
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/emergency-debate-pod-bye-bye-biden/id1485109198?i=1000660512166
David Plouffe - a Democratic strategist who orchestrated Barack Obama's campaign in 2008 - tells MSNBC's Rachel Maddow the debate was "kind of a Defcon 1 moment”. Plouffe says Trump and Biden looked "30 years apart". As a reminder - Biden is 81, and Trump is 78.
If he doesn't run he can pardon Hunter. That has to be an incentive.
And umpteen idiots on here waved it away - “no no, he’s fine, it’s normal, you’re just spouting Trumpite talking points”
Well. Here we are. Bravo
I’ll be accused of being snippy but “Putin" would have done just fine
Just read the reports and watched highlights of the Biden v Trump debate and it just left me feeling very sad for Biden as I do think he is genuinely a nice person
Dementia is a very upsetting illness, not only for the one suffering but also their families
I do wonder if his wife should step in and persuade him to pass on this burden, not only for his sake but for democracy and the US
Tonight was a stark reminder to those who flippantly refer to people as nutters, demented, or other unkind words that there is always a personal side to this terrible disease
My father in law died in our home with severe dementia, so much so that as he died with his family around him and holding his hands he had no idea who we were
Kindness should if you excuse the pun, trump politics, and just let him retire to his family and loved ones
I know they would have to move fast but why is she their only chance? There are other capable Democrats, even if it’s somewhat short notice.
I mean, if it was the UK Conservative Party they would have time for 3 Presidents before the vote.
It all seemed unnecessarily vainglorious.
It is insane what people will consciously disbelieve because the truth makes them uncomfortable
It's why it's been so competent.
If you yourself dialled down the rhetoric, cut the personal abuse, flaming, and trolling, people wouldn’t have to dig around for the occasional nugget. Most of what you post would be golden.
I’m not anticipating that you will listen but it’s meant kindly and seriously.
xx
The next-in-line is Kamala Harris, who is a black woman with a small but fairly demented fanbase who polls badly in the swing states. If you want to pass over her then the way to minimize the resulting fireworks is to select another black woman, and one with a decent amount of experience and/or star power. That gets you down to Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama.
Outrageous.Trumpian.Lie!
PR supporters (generalising) that that parliament should represent the political composition of the voters on a national basis.
FPTP supporters think that local communities should elect a representative to stick up for their area
It’s logical to have FPTP for a constituency based approach
I'd take a full blown senile Biden (rather than a doddering old man Biden which is what he actually is) over Trump in any health, any day.
The problem is the American electorate may not.
FPTP does tend to produce a decisive, and usually stable, Government. Coalitions have a pretty chequered history around the world.
FPTP also means that minority parties are not disproportionately powerful, especially in coalition through the tail wagging the dog. Personally I think that’s a price worth paying for keeping extremism at bay, although I’m open to being persuaded on this topic.
Presumably the wife must do the deed. The POTUS gracefully resigns due to illness. Problem solved. Do it this week
Already massive damage is done because it will alllow republicans to say “look you were about to foist a demented man on us as president”. But that can be fought
Biden cannot fight. If he continues he will lose this election
That said, Biden needs to stand aside for the future of the free world.
Getting Michelle Obama the nomination requires exactly the right amount of panic. If the polling shows no damage and Biden carries on, no Michelle. If Biden quits right away then it's Kamala, no Michelle. If the whole party goes into proper "shit shit shit we are so fucked" mode then everyone forgets about Kamala's feelings and picks the most electable person they can find, Buttigeig or Whitmer, I guess? So the dart has to fall in a very narrow place, and then she still has to say yes.
So I don't think it makes sense unless someone has inside information that this is actually a plan someone important is actually cooking up.
If you end up with a situation whereby there is multiple failings and governing parties/coalitions everywhere are collapsing, then the obvious thing is that people look to is the side with some credible answers... and it is the 'far right'. That explains the likely political outcomes coming forward in USA, France. The belief that the UK is immune is wishful thinking to me. Starmers appeal is an ocean wide and as deep as a puddle. I think there will be a rapid breakthrough on the far right, likely not through the reform party, but it will come in the next few years.
STV with multimember constituencies is the way to go. Not only do you have the constituency link, you have a choice to go to if one or other is not interested in your problem.
Instead of the obvious: the President has dementia.
p.s. and the terrible mistake of thinking the US and the UK are politically the same, let alone similar
Biden's nominee price has hardened a bit. 1.81-1.82.