China must be watching this and pissing themselves. I am supposed to be worried about these two tw@ts.
At least Biden evidently has some sensible people around him. You don't get that sense with Sunak.
To be fair, before the campaign, I think Sunak government was functioning ok on a day to day basis. I didn't get the feel it was like Boris / Cummings. So I presume there were some reasonable people working there.
What has happened with the campaign, well that's a different kettle of fish.
Agree. Things like the HS2 decision, while controversial, were done with a degree of assertive competence.
Is this the only debate, because Trump is absolutely beating Biden up.
Trump is talking a lot of nonsense, but he sounds like he is alive and functioning. Biden just keeps freezing.
Trump is rambling all over the place, Biden is slow and sometimes losing his point, so far both the worst debaters in Presidential history.
If Biden comes out with a draw though that would be better than the last 2 Presidents, both Bush and Obama lost their first debates to Kerry and Romney respectively
Its sad to see how far its fallen. Obama vs McCain was two decent people debating, who had a clue what they were saying.
Is this the only debate, because Trump is absolutely beating Biden up.
Trump is talking a lot of nonsense, but he sounds like he is alive and functioning. Biden just keeps freezing.
Trump is rambling all over the place, Biden is slow and sometimes losing his point, so far both the worst debaters in Presidential history.
If Biden comes out with a draw though that would be better than the last 2 Presidents, both Bush and Obama lost their first debates to Kerry and Romney respectively
Its sad to see how far its fallen. Obama vs McCain was two decent people debating, who had a clue what they were saying.
Its less of a debate on any policy issues, than two OAPs in a care home who hate one another talking at one another about how horrible the other one is.
Its less of a debate on any policy issues, than two OAPs in a care home who hate one another talking at one another about how horrible the other one is.
I doubt it changes much either. Trump voters will vote for him even if he is jailed for life, Biden voters will vote for him even if he is in a permanent coma on a life support machine to stop Trump!
The pressure on the Democrats to do a switcheroo at the convention will be immense after this.
No it won't, no coastal liberal will beat Trump, only Biden has. Only Democrat who might do better than Biden v Trump is Michelle Obama but she has so far declined to run
I genuinely no idea what they have been talking about for 30+ minutes. It is like using Google Translate 10 years ago on Japanese....the words get translated to English, but impossible to work out what it is actually about.
Trump is just lying constantly, but Biden is generally making good moral points.
Sadly presentation will be far more important than policy and morals at the election.
Trump can't help himself. If he just stuck to reasonable points he would be winning even more biggly e.g. his take on NATO was actually right. Instead it all goes BS within 3 sentences.
Trump is just lying constantly, but Biden is generally making good moral points.
Sadly presentation will be far more important than policy and morals at the election.
Trump can't help himself. If he just stuck to reasonable points he would be winning even more biggly e.g. his take on NATO was actually right. Instead it all goes BS within 3 sentences.
If Nikki Haley was Biden's opponent tonight she would be lapping Biden multiple times in this debate by now and measuring the drapes for the Oval Office already. Biden's get out of jail free card still remains the fact Trump is his opponent
Biden just forced Trump to deny he had sex with a porn star too despite a court ruling he has.
Trump generally more energetic than Biden in this debate but rambling and Biden looks asleep and forgetful half the time but occasionally jumps up with a zinger
Biden lost this debate in the first 5 minutes. It's all that will be clipped and all that will be remembered.
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Be interesting to see how many of the American public tuned in for 30 mins and then tuned out.
I think if even if they continued to watch, it's barely rose above terrible for Biden. Now, I'm not saying Trump is doing well - his default smirk whenever Biden skewers him looks terrible and any undecided voter would look at Trump and say that the man is full of it. But I don't see how this encourages Dems to turn out and pull the lever. And So Biden is toast.
You know what, if the American public vote for Trump then the deplorables are going to get what they deserve when Trump strips back everything they subsist on.
Biden lost this debate in the first 5 minutes. It's all that will be clipped and all that will be remembered.
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Be interesting to see how many of the American public tuned in for 30 mins and then tuned out.
I think if even if they continued to watch, it's barely rose above terrible for Biden. Now, I'm not saying Trump is doing well - his default smirk whenever Biden skewers him looks terrible and any undecided voter would look at Trump and say that the man is full of it. But I don't see how this encourages Dems to turn out and pull the lever. And So Biden is toast.
Dems will turn out to pull the lever to beat Trump, not out of huge enthusiasm for Biden. That was the case yesterday, today and will be the case in November.
Should also be pointed out every incumbent President bar one since 1980 has lost the first presidential debate.
President Carter lost the first debate to Reagan in 1980. President Reagan lost the first presidential debate to Mondale in 1984. President Bush 41 lost the first presidential debate to Perot in 1992. President Bush 43 lost the first presidential debate to Kerry in 2004. President Obama lost the first presidential debate to Romney in 2012 and President Trump lost the first presidential debate to Biden in 2020.
Only President Clinton won his first presidential debate against Bob Dole in 1996.
Fortunately only 10 minutes of this torture left. Alas, Biden has proven beyond all doubt he is too old for the job. Hopefully, people will vote for President Harris.
Fortunately only 10 minutes of this torture left. Alas, Biden has proven beyond all doubt he is too old for the job. Hopefully, people will vote for President Harris.
Biden lost this debate in the first 5 minutes. It's all that will be clipped and all that will be remembered.
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Be interesting to see how many of the American public tuned in for 30 mins and then tuned out.
I think if even if they continued to watch, it's barely rose above terrible for Biden. Now, I'm not saying Trump is doing well - his default smirk whenever Biden skewers him looks terrible and any undecided voter would look at Trump and say that the man is full of it. But I don't see how this encourages Dems to turn out and pull the lever. And So Biden is toast.
Dems will turn out to pull the lever to beat Trump, not out of huge enthusiasm for Biden. That was the case yesterday, today and will be the case in November.
Should also be pointed out every incumbent President bar one since 1980 has lost the first presidential debate.
President Carter lost the first debate to Reagan in 1980. President Reagan lost the first presidential debate to Mondale in 1984. President Bush 41 lost the first presidential debate to Perot in 1992. President Bush 43 lost the first presidential debate to Kerry in 2004. President Obama lost the first presidential debate to Romney in 2012 and President Trump lost the first presidential debate to Biden in 2020.
Only President Clinton won his first presidential debate against Bob Dole in 1996.
I think this is different and unlike the others, it's because it is important. This debate is basically about "Is Biden too old?". It's why Biden is having the debate now rather than in September, to answer that question.
Most Americans thought he was too old yesterday. Tomorrow almost every American will think that Biden is too old.
As someone who spends every day talking to Americans in a swing state, everything about Trump is already baked in. Everyone knows he's crazy. 50% don't care. But now the rest are going to be more worried than ever that Biden cannot be president.
Fortunately only 10 minutes of this torture left. Alas, Biden has proven beyond all doubt he is too old for the job. Hopefully, people will vote for President Harris.
They wouldn't, Trump would trounce Harris
Not what I am saying. I am saying that, hopefully those Democrats who see Biden as I saw him tonight will still vote for him in the expectation that the term will be finished by Harris.
Biden lost this debate in the first 5 minutes. It's all that will be clipped and all that will be remembered.
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Be interesting to see how many of the American public tuned in for 30 mins and then tuned out.
I think if even if they continued to watch, it's barely rose above terrible for Biden. Now, I'm not saying Trump is doing well - his default smirk whenever Biden skewers him looks terrible and any undecided voter would look at Trump and say that the man is full of it. But I don't see how this encourages Dems to turn out and pull the lever. And So Biden is toast.
Dems will turn out to pull the lever to beat Trump, not out of huge enthusiasm for Biden. That was the case yesterday, today and will be the case in November.
Should also be pointed out every incumbent President bar one since 1980 has lost the first presidential debate.
President Carter lost the first debate to Reagan in 1980. President Reagan lost the first presidential debate to Mondale in 1984. President Bush 41 lost the first presidential debate to Perot in 1992. President Bush 43 lost the first presidential debate to Kerry in 2004. President Obama lost the first presidential debate to Romney in 2012 and President Trump lost the first presidential debate to Biden in 2020.
Only President Clinton won his first presidential debate against Bob Dole in 1996.
I think this is different and unlike the others, it's because it is important. This debate is basically about "Is Biden too old?". It's why Biden is having the debate now rather than in September, to answer that question.
Most Americans thought he was too old yesterday. Tomorrow almost every American will think that Biden is too old.
As someone who spends every day talking to Americans in a swing state, everything about Trump is already baked in. Everyone knows he's crazy. 50% don't care. But now the rest are going to be more worried than ever that Biden cannot be president.
How many of them voted for Biden in 2020? If most of them voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 that doesn't really mean much
Biden lost this debate in the first 5 minutes. It's all that will be clipped and all that will be remembered.
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Be interesting to see how many of the American public tuned in for 30 mins and then tuned out.
I think if even if they continued to watch, it's barely rose above terrible for Biden. Now, I'm not saying Trump is doing well - his default smirk whenever Biden skewers him looks terrible and any undecided voter would look at Trump and say that the man is full of it. But I don't see how this encourages Dems to turn out and pull the lever. And So Biden is toast.
Dems will turn out to pull the lever to beat Trump, not out of huge enthusiasm for Biden. That was the case yesterday, today and will be the case in November.
Should also be pointed out every incumbent President bar one since 1980 has lost the first presidential debate.
President Carter lost the first debate to Reagan in 1980. President Reagan lost the first presidential debate to Mondale in 1984. President Bush 41 lost the first presidential debate to Perot in 1992. President Bush 43 lost the first presidential debate to Kerry in 2004. President Obama lost the first presidential debate to Romney in 2012 and President Trump lost the first presidential debate to Biden in 2020.
Only President Clinton won his first presidential debate against Bob Dole in 1996.
I think this is different and unlike the others, it's because it is important. This debate is basically about "Is Biden too old?". It's why Biden is having the debate now rather than in September, to answer that question.
Most Americans thought he was too old yesterday. Tomorrow almost every American will think that Biden is too old.
As someone who spends every day talking to Americans in a swing state, everything about Trump is already baked in. Everyone knows he's crazy. 50% don't care. But now the rest are going to be more worried than ever that Biden cannot be president.
How many of them voted for Biden in 2020? If most of them voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 that doesn't really mean much
It's all about turnout. I keep repeating this because it's how it works in the US. 2020 had a record turnout. Unless Biden can get all that vote out again, he will lose because Trump is for sure getting all of his vote out.
Having said all that, Biden has got some good lines in - the last line before the commercial break about why Trump refused to accept the election was excellent. Got Trump into maximum smirk mode.
Biden lost this debate in the first 5 minutes. It's all that will be clipped and all that will be remembered.
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Be interesting to see how many of the American public tuned in for 30 mins and then tuned out.
I think if even if they continued to watch, it's barely rose above terrible for Biden. Now, I'm not saying Trump is doing well - his default smirk whenever Biden skewers him looks terrible and any undecided voter would look at Trump and say that the man is full of it. But I don't see how this encourages Dems to turn out and pull the lever. And So Biden is toast.
Dems will turn out to pull the lever to beat Trump, not out of huge enthusiasm for Biden. That was the case yesterday, today and will be the case in November.
Should also be pointed out every incumbent President bar one since 1980 has lost the first presidential debate.
President Carter lost the first debate to Reagan in 1980. President Reagan lost the first presidential debate to Mondale in 1984. President Bush 41 lost the first presidential debate to Perot in 1992. President Bush 43 lost the first presidential debate to Kerry in 2004. President Obama lost the first presidential debate to Romney in 2012 and President Trump lost the first presidential debate to Biden in 2020.
Only President Clinton won his first presidential debate against Bob Dole in 1996.
I think this is different and unlike the others, it's because it is important. This debate is basically about "Is Biden too old?". It's why Biden is having the debate now rather than in September, to answer that question.
Most Americans thought he was too old yesterday. Tomorrow almost every American will think that Biden is too old.
As someone who spends every day talking to Americans in a swing state, everything about Trump is already baked in. Everyone knows he's crazy. 50% don't care. But now the rest are going to be more worried than ever that Biden cannot be president.
How many of them voted for Biden in 2020? If most of them voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 that doesn't really mean much
It's all about turnout. I keep repeating this because it's how it works in the US. 2020 had a record turnout. Unless Biden can get all that vote out again, he will lose because Trump is for sure getting all of his vote out.
Having said all that, Biden has got some good lines in - the last line before the commercial break about why Trump refused to accept the election was excellent. Got Trump into maximum smirk mode.
But then Biden falls apart again on the next question. Every time he answers first he is terrible. Every time he has something Trump says to grab onto he's much better.
I doubt tonight makes much difference, most Biden voters already knew he was old and forgetful, they are largely voting for him to stop Trump.
There is also no polling evidence any other Democrat polls better v Trump than Biden, indeed most poll worse and we already know that the only non Biden Democrat to face Trump in a general election was beaten by Trump in the EC whereas Biden beat Trump in the EC in 2020
" emily m @maitlis In the space of the last thirty mins Dem commentators seem to have switched to talking about “another candidate”. Are they getting ahead of the narrative ? Or creating it ?"
I doubt tonight makes much difference, most Biden voters already knew he was old and forgetful, they are largely voting for him to stop Trump.
There is also no polling evidence any other Democrat polls better v Trump than Biden, indeed most poll worse and we already know that the only non Biden Democrat to face Trump in a general election was beaten by Trump in the EC whereas Biden beat Trump in the EC in 2020
No, this is different. People are genuinely panicking
Trading bets on Kamala during that debate went quite decently
If Harris ends up Democrat candidate they may as well hand the election to Trump on a plate, she makes even Hillary look electable in the rustbelt
Well I'm wishing I kept a bit more rather than just trading out of them now...
I agree a fitter Biden is the Dems' best hope vs Trump ordinarily, but it was hard to not watch that debate and think that someone else might do a lot better against him.
Agree that Harris might not be that person, but it's bad optics to say "Re-elect us for our good record!" and also "We are replacing the President and we are also passing over his VP".
The basic politico's judgment: Biden sank his campaign tonight.
I believe you also said the same in 2012 after Romney trounced Obama in the first debate
Comparison between the situations is really not apt when we're talking about age here vs Romney just winning the first debate (which incumbents often lose)
Trading bets on Kamala during that debate went quite decently
If Harris ends up Democrat candidate they may as well hand the election to Trump on a plate, she makes even Hillary look electable in the rustbelt
Well I'm wishing I kept a bit more rather than just trading out of them now...
I agree a fitter Biden is the Dems' best hope vs Trump ordinarily, but it was hard to not watch that debate and think that someone else might do a lot better against him.
Agree that Harris might not be that person, but it's bad optics to say "Re-elect us for our good record!" and also "We are replacing the President and we are also passing over his VP".
Unless clear polling evidence emerges that another named Democrat does better v Trump in the swing states than Biden does by the Democratic convention, Biden will still be nominee. It would also require the majority of Biden's delegates to switch to that candidate at the convention
There was a point during that when Trump said "I'm only running to stop you" and Biden said "I'm only running to stop you" and they started talking about their golf handicaps and you have to wonder whether there's a deal to be made.
Democrats were left discussing replacing Joe Biden after what was widely acknowledged to have been a disastrous debate performance against Donald Trump.
Mr Biden, 81, mumbled and lost his train of thought throughout the 90-minute one-on-one, appearing confused at times and freezing under the spotlight. The White House said while the debate was still underway that he had developed a cold during practice sessions.
But a group of Democrat congressmen were said to now be discussing the need for a new presidential nominee after watching the “disaster” unfold, The New York Times reports.
David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to Barack Obama, said there will be “discussions” in the Democratic party about whether he should step aside.
“I think there was a sense of shock at how he came out at the beginning of this debate, he seemed a little disoriented,” he said on CNN.
The basic politico's judgment: Biden sank his campaign tonight.
I believe you also said the same in 2012 after Romney trounced Obama in the first debate
Comparison between the situations is really not apt when we're talking about age here vs Romney just winning the first debate (which incumbents often lose)
LOL I certainly don't remember what I posted 12 years ago in that much detail. But this was nothing like the Romney/Obama debate, and I am not reporting my sentiment, but what senior Democrats are saying about Biden's performance tonight.
When you get people like Van Jones and David Axelrod saying the party need to have a serious conversation, this is not just a normal bad debate performance ...
Raphael Warnock, the Democrat senator, is in the spin room trying to mitigate the damage from tonight’s debate. He accused the media of being too focused on Mr Biden’s style.
----------------
“There is a deep, a wide, very aggressive panic in the Democratic party - it started minutes into the debate and it continues right now,” John King, CNN’s chief national correspondent, said. “It involves party strategist, it involves elected officials.”
The basic politico's judgment: Biden sank his campaign tonight.
I believe you also said the same in 2012 after Romney trounced Obama in the first debate
Comparison between the situations is really not apt when we're talking about age here vs Romney just winning the first debate (which incumbents often lose)
LOL I certainly don't remember what I posted 12 years ago in that much detail. But this was nothing like the Romney/Obama debate, and I am not reporting my sentiment, but what senior Democrats are saying about Biden's performance tonight.
When you get people like Van Jones and David Axelrod saying the party need to have a serious conversation, this is not just a normal bad debate performance ...
Axelrod has wanted to dump Biden for some time. It's not a new position. Jusr look at this title from January:-
Comments
Biden President odds now - 5.0
Not even been half an hour...
https://x.com/JoeListComedy/status/1806499479580737653
Sadly presentation will be far more important than policy and morals at the election.
https://x.com/M_McDonough/status/1806500190385234235
Trump generally more energetic than Biden in this debate but rambling and Biden looks asleep and forgetful half the time but occasionally jumps up with a zinger
https://x.com/M_McDonough/status/1806505939039617415
When he is made to talk about policy or things he has done he is a jibbering fool,
Trumps best attack would be let him talk freely, give him enough rope to hang himself
He's getting some decent attacks in now, but it's too late.
So sad.
Should also be pointed out every incumbent President bar one since 1980 has lost the first presidential debate.
President Carter lost the first debate to Reagan in 1980. President Reagan lost the first presidential debate to Mondale in 1984. President Bush 41 lost the first presidential debate to Perot in 1992. President Bush 43 lost the first presidential debate to Kerry in 2004. President Obama lost the first presidential debate to Romney in 2012 and President Trump lost the first presidential debate to Biden in 2020.
Only President Clinton won his first presidential debate against Bob Dole in 1996.
Most Americans thought he was too old yesterday. Tomorrow almost every American will think that Biden is too old.
As someone who spends every day talking to Americans in a swing state, everything about Trump is already baked in. Everyone knows he's crazy. 50% don't care. But now the rest are going to be more worried than ever that Biden cannot be president.
https://x.com/ayeejuju/status/1806497513169637875
Having said all that, Biden has got some good lines in - the last line before the commercial break about why Trump refused to accept the election was excellent. Got Trump into maximum smirk mode.
NEW: Two sources familiar with the situation say “President Biden has a cold.”
There is also no polling evidence any other Democrat polls better v Trump than Biden, indeed most poll worse and we already know that the only non Biden Democrat to face Trump in a general election was beaten by Trump in the EC whereas Biden beat Trump in the EC in 2020
emily m
@maitlis
In the space of the last thirty mins Dem commentators seem to have switched to talking about “another candidate”. Are they getting ahead of the narrative ? Or creating it ?"
I agree a fitter Biden is the Dems' best hope vs Trump ordinarily, but it was hard to not watch that debate and think that someone else might do a lot better against him.
Agree that Harris might not be that person, but it's bad optics to say "Re-elect us for our good record!" and also "We are replacing the President and we are also passing over his VP".
https://x.com/lxeagle17/status/1806509585601286349
2024
https://x.com/bilawalsidhu/status/1806519618506211342
They are going to have to hide him away in the basement for most of the campaign.
https://x.com/barstoolsports/status/1806515570533175718
That was worse than England batting in the T20 semi-final.
Mr Biden, 81, mumbled and lost his train of thought throughout the 90-minute one-on-one, appearing confused at times and freezing under the spotlight. The White House said while the debate was still underway that he had developed a cold during practice sessions.
But a group of Democrat congressmen were said to now be discussing the need for a new presidential nominee after watching the “disaster” unfold, The New York Times reports.
David Axelrod, a former senior adviser to Barack Obama, said there will be “discussions” in the Democratic party about whether he should step aside.
“I think there was a sense of shock at how he came out at the beginning of this debate, he seemed a little disoriented,” he said on CNN.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/27/us-presidential-debate-live-donald-trump-joe-biden/
When you get people like Van Jones and David Axelrod saying the party need to have a serious conversation, this is not just a normal bad debate performance ...
----------------
“There is a deep, a wide, very aggressive panic in the Democratic party - it started minutes into the debate and it continues right now,” John King, CNN’s chief national correspondent, said. “It involves party strategist, it involves elected officials.”
My focus group of undecided voters wants Joe Biden to step aside.
They like him and respect him – most voted for him in 2020. But they want him to go.
Tonight was a political earthquake.
Joe Biden Called David Axelrod a ‘Prick.’ It Won’t Shut Him Up.
A Q&A with the former Obama strategist who’s not afraid to critique the Biden campaign.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/01/12/david-axelrod-obama-biden-2024-00135194