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Oh Mandy – politicalbetting.com

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  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,270
    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,472

    Just had a relation ask me. "is it possible for Trump to become Prime Minister if Reform won an election, his mother is Scottish, so he could get a British Passport?"

    I will leave that nugget with you all.

    No he cannot get a British passport...

    You may automatically be a British citizen if you were born before 1 January 1983 and:
    - you were born outside the UK
    - your father is British


    https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-before-1983

    Rules back for people born before 1983 are sexist. Rules for people born after 1983 are much tougher.
    Its not "No", its fill out a form, pay £130 and attend a citizenship ceremony. Still sexist though.

    Would be even funnier if Trump then took them to court claiming sexism and the whole thing turned into a circus.
    What first attracted you to the self confessed pussy grabber as UK PM?
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    For once, William, we're in agreement.

    Blair/Brown perpetuated Thatcher's bigger mistakes. There's a lesson there for the 'continuity of policy in the first term' crew.

    The first year of your first term is when you set the agenda for the rest of that term - and the next, if you're both competent and lucky.
    Labour don't want too many young people owning homes though and becoming Tories
    So why didn’t the Tories want too many young people owning homes, then?

    Because it couldn’t have been achieved any more decisively than it has.

    I guess that the answer is that the Tories became unduly fixated upon the pensioner vote?

    Prizing short-term over long-term; that should be chiselled onto every politician’s gravestone.
    Because they are greedy landlord barstewards who preferred to farm them in rentals?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    Davey’s feeding chickens!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    I too like graphs. Shall we do waiting lists?
    How about number of NHS employees ?
    For the long term trend of NHS employment:

    The statistics show how the NHS workforce has grown and evolved over the past seven decades:

    In 1949, there were 11,735 full time equivalent hospital doctors in England and Wales, including 3,488 consultants.
    By 2018 there were 109,509 full time equivalent medical and dental staff, including 46,297 consultants, in England.

    In 1949, there were 68,013 registered nurses in hospitals in England and Wales.
    In 2018, that number stood at 320,422 (headcount).

    There were 5,637 midwifery staff in 1949.
    By 2018 there were 26,519 (headcount).

    In 1963 there were 22,159 GPs in England and Wales, 19,951 of whom were male and 2,208 of whom were female.
    In 2018 there were 41,693 GPs, 17,366 male and 21,736 female (headcount).


    https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2018/workforce-factsheet

    How much has the country benefitted from all this ?

    There's been increases in life expectancy since 1948 but most (almost all ?) of that has been from other changes such as reductions in smoking and health destroying jobs.

    Has the NHS now become a 'self licking ice cream' where its purpose is to keep sick oldies alive for a few more months which thereby creates more work for the NHS ?

    How much taxpayers money is now being spent per each decile of human life ?

    And how much benefit does that bring to individuals and the country generally ?
    Why not see how many votes 'cutting the NHS' gets?

    Here's the thing. Over the long-term the Standard of Living increases*. What do we spend that extra wealth on? Should we all have more 'stuff', or more money stashed away in savings, or more food or drink maybe?

    Or should we spend that extra wealth on things like health, education, culture, national infrastructure, security? Things that improve the people's quality of life?

    I know which I would rather have.

    (*Except when we have 14 years of incompetent Tory government, it seems.)
    I think it also demonstrates how woeful the last 14 years of management by the DoH has been that all the extra money and staff have been squandered for so little impact.

    Not that I think Streeting will do much better. Indeed it is likely to end his political ambitions. No minister of Health has made PM since the NHS came into being.
    I did confess to wondering if Labour planned a job swap between Streeting and Reeves when he commented a lot on economic policy but then I remembered he is one of their goto spox.
    Given that Streeting would sell his grandmother to advance his career, if they drop into being the next cabinet, as it would appear, we should watch for Streeting plunging the knife into Reeves, if he gets the chance. With her job he’d be sitting much prettier.
    Streeting clearly wants to be the British Macron to Starmer's Hollande.

    Macron was of course Hollande's Finance Minister before replacing him as President in 2017
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933
    @TimS

    That’s very interesting. Thankyou. And I concur with a lot of it. I also think France has an even greater hangover of history than Britain. The British were top dog for 100 years, and with the biggest empire the world has ever seen. It’s taking us a long time to recover from losing all that. But we have the solace that England still dominates in certain ways - the English language; English sports, etc

    The French were culturally supreme for 500 years. Or 1000? Arguably since Charlemagne. And that supremacy was worldwide for a time

    And now virtually none of it is left - maybe some cooking and a bit of fashion - trivialities. That’s a ln even bigger comedown

    So no matter how beautiful and lucky France is - and it is - it still has that sense of decline and that nags at the people

    All Europeans feel it to an extent but maybe in France it is most acute. I do not think President le pen is going to fix this
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,141
    edited June 23

    Just had a relation ask me. "is it possible for Trump to become Prime Minister if Reform won an election, his mother is Scottish, so he could get a British Passport?"

    I will leave that nugget with you all.

    Is there a nationality law for British Prime Ministers? We've had Canadians and half-Americans in the past.
    There is not directly, but the precedent in appointing PMs (and a very strong precedent) is that they have to be MPs on appointment. To become an MP, you have to be a British, Irish or qualifying Commonwealth citizen (a particular sub-set that don't need permission to enter or remain in the UK).

    So to all intents and purposes there is (with a slight wrinkle in that you could, in theory, renounce your citizenship - you'd not be able to stand for re-election as an MP but wouldn't be instantly disqualified from sitting as one).
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,929
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    For once, William, we're in agreement.

    Blair/Brown perpetuated Thatcher's bigger mistakes. There's a lesson there for the 'continuity of policy in the first term' crew.

    The first year of your first term is when you set the agenda for the rest of that term - and the next, if you're both competent and lucky.
    Labour don't want too many young people owning homes though and becoming Tories
    That sort of nonsense us part of the problem.

    If it were true, why didn't they restart building council houses ?

    They just copied Thatcher on housing.
    Changing circumstances though - Thatcher didn't have population growth, Labour did.

    We had sufficient new housing builds happening in the eighties and early 90s that people could get their own property. Its from the late 90s onwards that the problem became bad.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,929
    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    I think that's incredibly naïve and closed-minded.

    Was it Brexit or Boris that created the insane National Service policy in your eyes?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    Senior Tory official becomes FOURTH party figure subject to gambling watchdog investigation…

    With reports of “many more” cases being looked at (though unclear yet if they have Tory links) election betting scandal now undermining party’s campaign…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1804860626742690095

    Somewhere there will be a few innocent punters who just happened to put a few quid on July that same day, who will now get dragged into being suspects in this growing investigation!
    I am expecting to be contacted.
    As an expert witness?
    Undoubtedly.

    Although when asked I may blame it all on Lord Finklestein.

    There is one certainty in life, I would not do well in prison.
    I have the same problem of being too attractive.
    I had a client who ended up in prison and he told me about his experiences.

    He went to court in his best suit, shoes, and Rolex and ended up in prison with those.

    His suit was taken from him and he was given prison clothes, so there he was wearing expensive shoes and a Rolex.

    All the prisoners kept on asking him for money to help out their families etc.

    It was grim six months for him.
    That actually happened to me

    I went straight from the remand court in a suit to wormwood scrubs. And it was a Katherine Hamnett suit

    For two hard months I was the best dressed jailbird in Her Majesty’s Prisons
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249

    Just had a relation ask me. "is it possible for Trump to become Prime Minister if Reform won an election, his mother is Scottish, so he could get a British Passport?"

    I will leave that nugget with you all.

    Is there a nationality law for British Prime Ministers? We've had Canadians and half-Americans in the past.
    As long as you are eligible to vote, you are eligible to stand for election, so that is the only qualifier, if we assume that the convention that the Prime Minister is an MP holds. Otherwise Trump could be made a British citizen, a Lord, and PM in the same day, and becoming a British citizen, insofar as they would need to be a subject of the Crown, would only be necessary to become a Lord, I think.

    If Narendra Modi moved to London he would, as a Commonwealth citizen, be eligible to vote and stand for election, and so could become PM a bit more easily than Trump.
  • Trump: No water in your faucets. You ever try buying a new home and you turn on. You want to wash your hair or you wanna wash your hands. You turn on the water and it goes drip, drip the soap. You can't get it off your hand. So you keep it running for about 10 times longer. You trying, the worst is your hair. I have this beautiful luxuriant hair and I put stuff on. I put it in lather. I like lots of lather because I like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. And I lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip and you say I'm gonna be here for 45 minutes. What? There's so much water. You don't know what to do with it. You know, it's called rain. It rains a lot in certain places. But, now their idea, you know, did you see the other day? They just, I opened it up and they closed it again. I opened it, they close it, washing machines to wash your dishes. There is a problem. They don't want you to have any water. They want no water

    https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1804665265000476809

    I am sure the Biden has dementia brigade will be balanced and post Trump's latest speech.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,937
    kjh said:

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.

    Richi supported both Brexit and BoZo

    He deserves the reward...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,633
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    For once, William, we're in agreement.

    Blair/Brown perpetuated Thatcher's bigger mistakes. There's a lesson there for the 'continuity of policy in the first term' crew.

    The first year of your first term is when you set the agenda for the rest of that term - and the next, if you're both competent and lucky.
    Labour don't want too many young people owning homes though and becoming Tories
    So why didn’t the Tories want too many young people owning homes, then?

    Because it couldn’t have been achieved any more decisively than it has.

    I guess that the answer is that the Tories became unduly fixated upon the pensioner vote?

    Prizing short-term over long-term; that should be chiselled onto every politician’s gravestone.
    Under Local Plans most Tory councils have got plans for thousands of new homes, which is why many of the pensioners there who are more sceptical of new homes and more protective of greenbelt land vote LD, Independent or Green locally even if mostly still Tory nationally
  • kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    Brexit fundamentally is the cause but Johnson's 2019 win was actually long term a disaster for the party as it removed it even further from its core support. It worked because of Jeremy Corbyn.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,853

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    For once, William, we're in agreement.

    Blair/Brown perpetuated Thatcher's bigger mistakes. There's a lesson there for the 'continuity of policy in the first term' crew.

    The first year of your first term is when you set the agenda for the rest of that term - and the next, if you're both competent and lucky.
    Labour don't want too many young people owning homes though and becoming Tories
    That sort of nonsense us part of the problem.

    If it were true, why didn't they restart building council houses ?

    They just copied Thatcher on housing.
    Changing circumstances though - Thatcher didn't have population growth, Labour did.

    We had sufficient new housing builds happening in the eighties and early 90s that people could get their own property. Its from the late 90s onwards that the problem became bad.
    You're making excuses for what was poor policy.
    Thatcher sold council houses - and pocketed most of the proceeds. It was part of the sell assets to finance current spending that's been tested to destruction over the following decades.

    I won't go into MIRAS etc, which helped fuel the house price boom.
  • Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,270
    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    God how could I forget Brexit ! Yes that is an issue . I don’t like Sunak but equally don’t think he should be in the history books for losing his seat .
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 963
    Why is Rishi tweeting about Brexit when the aim is to save the southern seats? Madness
  • I know the Tories will spend the next several years saying "but in 2019 we won" but they really would be wise to discount that result and look at the years between 2010 and 2017 and between 2019 and 2024 instead.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,368

    Just got off the chopper after three and a half weeks of nights out in the middle of the North Sea.

    Aberdeen looks very pretty in the sunshine this afternoon from my 6th floor room.

    My taxi driver from the heliport said nothing about politics, immigration or current affairs.

    I don't think I will ever make a globetrotting travel writer as clearly I don't meet the right sort of people.

    But did your taxi driver previously play professional football in Italy ?
    He had a Brazilian name.... I think. D'Souza. So he might have played for Brazil. But since I am not a globetrotting travel writer I didn't think to ask.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,929
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    For once, William, we're in agreement.

    Blair/Brown perpetuated Thatcher's bigger mistakes. There's a lesson there for the 'continuity of policy in the first term' crew.

    The first year of your first term is when you set the agenda for the rest of that term - and the next, if you're both competent and lucky.
    Labour don't want too many young people owning homes though and becoming Tories
    So why didn’t the Tories want too many young people owning homes, then?

    Because it couldn’t have been achieved any more decisively than it has.

    I guess that the answer is that the Tories became unduly fixated upon the pensioner vote?

    Prizing short-term over long-term; that should be chiselled onto every politician’s gravestone.
    Under Local Plans most Tory councils have got plans for thousands of new homes, which is why many of the pensioners there who are more sceptical of new homes and more protective of greenbelt land vote LD, Independent or Green locally even if mostly still Tory nationally
    "Thousands of homes" is nowhere near enough homes when we have a shortage of millions of homes and the population is growing and demographics are changing.

    We need millions of new homes. Even if there was no migration from today onwards, which isn't going to happen, we'd still need millions of new homes.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249
    edited June 23
    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,141
    edited June 23

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    Senior Tory official becomes FOURTH party figure subject to gambling watchdog investigation…

    With reports of “many more” cases being looked at (though unclear yet if they have Tory links) election betting scandal now undermining party’s campaign…

    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/1804860626742690095

    Somewhere there will be a few innocent punters who just happened to put a few quid on July that same day, who will now get dragged into being suspects in this growing investigation!
    I am expecting to be contacted.
    What an utter load of bile
    Are you ever right about anything?

    And in a major new development, the watchdog has widened its inquiries to investigate whether people with inside knowledge may have asked a third party to place a bet for them.

    Sky News also understands that investigators have written to leading bookmakers asking for details of bets of £20 or more on the election date within days of Rishi Sunak announcing it on May 22.


    https://news.sky.com/story/many-more-people-investigated-over-election-betting-claims-13157425
    It's absolutely crackers.

    I'm far from convinced any of this is within the definition of "cheating" in the Gambling Act at all. But even if that's made out, a friend of a friend chancing pin money based on a rumour clearly isn't - it's the run of the mill information asymmetry on which betting is based ("I spoke to the trainer and he says Fat Bob is running well, so 10-1 is a steal").

    The Gambling Commission has taken leave of its senses, in my view. It is making a very narrow matter very wide just because it's made headlines rather than on the basis of a robust legal interpretation and sober assessment of what is proportionate to the alleged harm.
    Agree 100%.

    I am fairly certain I am not the only PBer who put a bet of £20 or more on a July election around May 21st.
    I have to say it surprises me a bit that more journos haven't queried the Gambling Commission's incredibly broad view of "interference or deception".

    There is nothing in this that comes close to "interference" (I very much doubt the data officer at CCHQ twisted Sunak's arm to meet his own bets). And "deception" is highly dubious - I simply do not see in what sense failing to tell Ladbrokes you have knowledge they do not is "deception".

    Is it foolish? Does it look bad? Might people's employment contracts say things? Very possibly. But criminal? I don't buy it, I'm afraid.
    The Gambling Commission is extending its reach, or some might say trying it on. Journalists magnify the threat of prison sentences.

    However, the political harm is done, like partygate (doubly so because it reminds voters of that affair, and that the rules do not apply to our gilded ruling class). It should have been obvious to all that even if not illegal, these bets were unethical and unwise. Most white collar organisations have a variant on the Private Eye test. If you would not want to read about yourself in Private Eye, don't do it.
    I agree to an extent, but I do wonder if there might even be a libel case or two coming out of this. In the heat of an election, things get blown up (indeed, the PM has puffed up his own fury over it). But those involved have been accused not just of unwise behaviour, but criminal behaviour based (in my view) on a tenuous reading of the law. Any nuance there might have been over "alleged" in the mainstream media, and there has been precious little of that, has been swept away entirely on social media.

    It's all quite full on for people who aren't household names, and makes me very uncomfortable.

    I do also query the Partygate analogy. Things were done there that WERE against the law, and were done against the backdrop of members of the public having their lives turned upside down (they partied while granny died etc). That isn't actually the case here - these are things that may well not be against the law, and it's against the backdrop of Ladbrokes profits being 0.00001% lower than they would otherwise have been. Still not a good look, but...
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 963

    If Labour does get a massive majority, that is the time to pass proper planning reform.

    I posted the other day about what they could do on mast building (as it's my area of expertise). But they should also do lots on housing. They will be able to get this stuff through.

    They need to do it early in their term. They only have a short window in which to do this
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    edited June 23

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    Brexit fundamentally is the cause but Johnson's 2019 win was actually long term a disaster for the party as it removed it even further from its core support. It worked because of Jeremy Corbyn.
    More fundamentally, the Tories had dined out for more than a century on being the pragmatic, ‘what works’ party, defeating their more ideological first Liberal and then Labour opponents. Then along came Brexit and suddenly Tory members and MPs got infected with the ‘our-ideology-trumps-all’ virus.

    Putting Corbyn up against Johnson was a tragic blunder by Labour, but now they have realised that all it takes is to make a Mr Sensible their leader, and suddenly the Conservatives have absolutely no USP.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,494
    edited June 23

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    Jesus, Labour down to 38% now!
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Is @TimS around? I have a question for @TimS

    Paris aside, on each of my recent visits to France - and I’ve been all over - Brittany, Normandy, Picardy, the Cevennes, Provence, Languedoc - I’ve been struck by the high quality of life. It’s not just the nicer weather - they have good health care, beautiful cities, agreeable food, excellent infrastructure, lots of holidays

    They must have one of the highest “qualities of life” in the world. And I’m not just comparing them with fucked up old Britain. They seem to have a superior quality of life to almost anyone in europe (or the world?)

    Yes they have problems - migration, crime, but still. Other countries have all that as well and often far worse

    Yet the French are so discontented they are voting in their millions for a woman who says France is on
    the brink of ruin and forget about my Nazi dad only I can save you

    WHY?

    I’m around now and on the way to the greengrocers.

    Good question. Statistically they aren’t doing that badly either. Their most deprived areas are nowhere near as deprived as the worst in Europe, and the average square mile of land in France is almost as pretty as the average square mile of Italy, but with things working more smoothly. Their birth rate is higher than most suggesting household optimism is holding up. But they are grumpy and discontented as hell.

    I know many have tried to answer. I have a theory: France, like the French language, is a closed concept with rules. Other cultures - not all - are open source.

    The French seem to assess their lives against a canonical notion of France and Frenchness. That involves the supremacy of the country’s constitution and history, its language, its wine, its social fabric. France must be the pinnacle or it is nothing. They find it wanting against this overly tough benchmark.

    French is losing influence around the world because of its inflexibility. You don’t want a lingua Franca that you’re going to get constantly corrected on by the natives. French food and drink has also lost ground because of its inflexibility. France hasn’t integrated its migrant populations anywhere near as successfully as Britain because of the same fixed notion of integration that involves a migrant becoming canonically French.

    So the people are grumpy. It’s as if France itself is held in an appellation controllee. It’s part of what makes it so charming to me but it means modern life will always be a disappointment.
    Isn't it just inflation of expectation, a bit like America and indeed the UK too?

    People bank the gains and soon forget, and it just fuels the demand for more as material desires can never be satisfied.
    That’s one way to describe it, but I would say it is of a different sort. America and Britain want to be great, the best, world leading, and their people get cross when they’re not (or even, in the USA’s case, when they are). But France requires itself to be the best in a very specific way.

    Let’s return to the appellation contrôlée example. An American wine wants to win the best in class trophy or get 98 from Robert Parker. A French wine wants to exhibit “typicity”. Before it can think of winning anything it first must prove it is precisely as you would expect of a wine from that slope in that region.
    And rightly so!

    Sante! 🍷
    If you talk to the small producers, they are a lot less full of that bullshit. They leave it to outfits like Laroche.



    That’s the Laroche winery outside Chablis, where Goldfinger is planning Grand Slam.
    There are some small producers who have freed themselves a bit of that bullshit, but they are treated as brave pioneers. I remember the column inches devoted to a maverick group of vignerons who had dared to plant Syrah and Viognier in one small vineyard in Beaujolais. It was the most exciting thing ever.

    There are also plenty of small producers who absolutely exude the bullshit because they know what side their bread is buttered (though note I do think typicity has its place, we need more of it in English wine).
    Saffron Grange is fucking great. I also have a brewer friend who is seriously considering distilling Calvados from English Wine.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,929
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Labour Government of 1997 to 2010 is the greatest government this country has had since WW2.

    This graph says otherwise. Look at the dates.

    image
    For once, William, we're in agreement.

    Blair/Brown perpetuated Thatcher's bigger mistakes. There's a lesson there for the 'continuity of policy in the first term' crew.

    The first year of your first term is when you set the agenda for the rest of that term - and the next, if you're both competent and lucky.
    Labour don't want too many young people owning homes though and becoming Tories
    That sort of nonsense us part of the problem.

    If it were true, why didn't they restart building council houses ?

    They just copied Thatcher on housing.
    Changing circumstances though - Thatcher didn't have population growth, Labour did.

    We had sufficient new housing builds happening in the eighties and early 90s that people could get their own property. Its from the late 90s onwards that the problem became bad.
    You're making excuses for what was poor policy.
    Thatcher sold council houses - and pocketed most of the proceeds. It was part of the sell assets to finance current spending that's been tested to destruction over the following decades.

    I won't go into MIRAS etc, which helped fuel the house price boom.
    Its not poor policy, its great policy that enabled people to own their own homes.

    Had construction kept pace with population growth and demographic change then others could and should have subsequently too.

    It makes no difference whether homes are privately owned or council owned, the problem is we do not have enough homes in this country. We need to build, build, build millions more.
  • IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    Brexit fundamentally is the cause but Johnson's 2019 win was actually long term a disaster for the party as it removed it even further from its core support. It worked because of Jeremy Corbyn.
    More fundamentally, the Tories had dined out for more than a century on being the pragmatic, ‘what works’ party, defeating their more ideological first Liberal and then Labour opponents. Then along came Brexit and suddenly Tory members and MPs got infected with the ‘our-ideology-trumps-all’ virus.

    Putting Corbyn up against Johnson was a tragic blunder by Labour, but now they have realised that all it takes is to make a Mr Sensible their leader, and suddenly the Conservatives have absolutely no USP.
    If Labour had never elected JC, I suspect Labour would have been in government many years ago.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,767

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    I think that's incredibly naïve and closed-minded.

    Was it Brexit or Boris that created the insane National Service policy in your eyes?
    So you think if the National Service policy hadn't been introduced the Tories would be flying high? No of course not they would still be exactly where they are now. That was a desperate attempt at something to get them out of the sh*t they were already in. Same for every cock up.

    They are here because of Boris and what he did. He put them here in the first place and the fiasco of Brexit put him into Downing Street.

    How is that naive and closed minded. Seems pretty much common sense. Tories were doing ok until Brexit and then the shambles of Brexit brought us Boris and sleaze and lies.
  • Trump: No water in your faucets. You ever try buying a new home and you turn on. You want to wash your hair or you wanna wash your hands. You turn on the water and it goes drip, drip the soap. You can't get it off your hand. So you keep it running for about 10 times longer. You trying, the worst is your hair. I have this beautiful luxuriant hair and I put stuff on. I put it in lather. I like lots of lather because I like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. And I lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip and you say I'm gonna be here for 45 minutes. What? There's so much water. You don't know what to do with it. You know, it's called rain. It rains a lot in certain places. But, now their idea, you know, did you see the other day? They just, I opened it up and they closed it again. I opened it, they close it, washing machines to wash your dishes. There is a problem. They don't want you to have any water. They want no water

    https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1804665265000476809

    I am sure the Biden has dementia brigade will be balanced and post Trump's latest speech.

    Its an issue there (think EU banning incandescent light bulbs).

    They have energy regulations that mean the flow rate in taps and shower heads is throttled and the limits on water in a dishwasher cycle mean (allegedly) it comes out part clean and you have to re wash several times. Ditto toilet flushes.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/flushing-10-times-what-s-really-behind-trump-s-tirades-n1111691

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,472
    edited June 23

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll of 520 GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    IanB2 said:

    Davey’s feeding chickens!

    That’s a come down from the previous stunts. Are they are least on fire or something?
  • Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    that's a poll GB News viewers.

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Wow, you were right about something!
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    Jesus, Labour down to 38% now!
    540 person sample size, done for GB news, who also commissioned the Peoplepolling poll that showed Farage's mob on 24%. Now, I know these are all BPC, but part of me thinks there's some fuckery going on here.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,368
    edited June 23

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    Is that for real? Are they a BPC member or is this likely to be a voodoo poll?

    They are BPC registered but this a poll of GB News viewers.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,929
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    I think that's incredibly naïve and closed-minded.

    Was it Brexit or Boris that created the insane National Service policy in your eyes?
    So you think if the National Service policy hadn't been introduced the Tories would be flying high? No of course not they would still be exactly where they are now. That was a desperate attempt at something to get them out of the sh*t they were already in. Same for every cock up.

    They are here because of Boris and what he did. He put them here in the first place and the fiasco of Brexit put him into Downing Street.

    How is that naive and closed minded. Seems pretty much common sense. Tories were doing ok until Brexit and then the shambles of Brexit brought us Boris and sleaze and lies.
    Flying high? No, I think time for a change would have seen Labour win either way.

    Not been annihilated? Yes.

    And not just National Service, every other disastrous mistake Sunak has made too.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!

    It has to be said that Lady Vic is pretty.

    I make no comment on Sir Keir.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    it's behind the paywall but there's a poll for Richmond

    Sunak 39%
    Labour 28%
    Reform 18%

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/sunak-set-to-hang-on-as-mp-despite-predictions-he-could-lose-seat-3127383
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    edited June 23
    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    Jesus, Labour down to 38% now!
    540 person sample size, done for GB news, who also commissioned the Peoplepolling poll that showed Farage's mob on 24%. Now, I know these are all BPC, but part of me thinks there's some fuckery going on here.
    49% Tory/Reform seems odd. But I shouldn’t make assumptions I guess.

    Edit - Ah, I skipped over the “for GB news bit”.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll 520 GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Ah. If it was GB News viewers, how did they find any Labour/LibDem/Green voters in the sample at all?!
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,494
    edited June 23

    Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!

    It has to be said that Lady Vic is pretty.

    I make no comment on Sir Keir.
    She is beautiful but so is SKS. SKS knows what he's doing.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
    There's an entertaining argument going on about it on the Wikipedia article
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited June 23

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    Lol!!

    Was just going to clarify that key point.

    Seems bonkers that Labour has such a lead with GB News fans!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,175

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    Is that for real? Are they a BPC member or is this likely to be a voodoo poll?
    Real, but if your sample is GBNews viewers, it's not going to tell us much about the wider electorate.

    Pollsters will try to give you an honest accurate answer, but if you get them to ask a silly question...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,368

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    Brexit fundamentally is the cause but Johnson's 2019 win was actually long term a disaster for the party as it removed it even further from its core support. It worked because of Jeremy Corbyn.
    Johnson would have been PM with or without Brexit. And he was the fundamental problem for the Tory party. It all starts and ends with Johnson.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,237
    edited June 23

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    What's with the 520 sample size? Did they exclude everyone not saying REF? 😂
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,898
    spudgfsh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
    There's an entertaining argument going on about it on the Wikipedia article
    Surely a slam dunk to not include as it isn’t a national VI poll.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!

    It has to be said that Lady Vic is pretty.

    I make no comment on Sir Keir.
    Starmer has bulletproof hair. He exudes big Dad energy which I'm aware some of my female friends find attractive. I'd say he's punching above his weight, but my judgement of male attractiveness isn't exactly Queer Eye level.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,472
    @LostPassword I've edited your post to avoid any confusion about that poll.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll 520 GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Ah, thanks. A bit naughty of someone to put it in the wiki opinion polls table then.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Trump: No water in your faucets. You ever try buying a new home and you turn on. You want to wash your hair or you wanna wash your hands. You turn on the water and it goes drip, drip the soap. You can't get it off your hand. So you keep it running for about 10 times longer. You trying, the worst is your hair. I have this beautiful luxuriant hair and I put stuff on. I put it in lather. I like lots of lather because I like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. And I lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip and you say I'm gonna be here for 45 minutes. What? There's so much water. You don't know what to do with it. You know, it's called rain. It rains a lot in certain places. But, now their idea, you know, did you see the other day? They just, I opened it up and they closed it again. I opened it, they close it, washing machines to wash your dishes. There is a problem. They don't want you to have any water. They want no water

    https://x.com/BidenHQ/status/1804665265000476809

    I am sure the Biden has dementia brigade will be balanced and post Trump's latest speech.

    hE iS BeHiNd




    Etc etc
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,368

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    Is that for real? Are they a BPC member or is this likely to be a voodoo poll?
    Real, but if your sample is GBNews viewers, it's not going to tell us much about the wider electorate.

    Pollsters will try to give you an honest accurate answer, but if you get them to ask a silly question...
    If that is a poll of GB news viewers and Reform are only getting 25% then they are truly f**red:)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,853
    biggles said:

    IanB2 said:

    Davey’s feeding chickens!

    That’s a come down from the previous stunts. Are they are least on fire or something?
    Perhaps just a contrast with Sunak's sheep feeding disaster.
    And to point out the chickens are coming home to roost.

  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    RobD said:

    spudgfsh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
    There's an entertaining argument going on about it on the Wikipedia article
    Surely a slam dunk to not include as it isn’t a national VI poll.
    Wiki editors are often a bit too trigger happy with "publish and be damned". That's why there's a lot of inaccuracies that never get taken down. They're hotly debated in the talk page but not ever removed because there's a plausible enough case to leave them, even if most people would say "nah remove it, not safe". I love wiki and donate to it but peer review does have its flaws.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249

    @LostPassword I've edited your post to avoid any confusion about that poll.

    A very wise precaution.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,368

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    Is that for real? Are they a BPC member or is this likely to be a voodoo poll?
    Real, but if your sample is GBNews viewers, it's not going to tell us much about the wider electorate.

    Pollsters will try to give you an honest accurate answer, but if you get them to ask a silly question...
    If that is a poll of GB news viewers and Reform are only getting 25% then they are truly f**red:)
    I hate my phone....

    Truly FUCKED.

    Thank you phone.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    GIN1138 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    What's with the 520 sample size? Did they exclude everyone not saying REF? 😂
    They would have been getting Loser Goodwin to ask his mates 😂
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,472

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll 520 GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Ah, thanks. A bit naughty of someone to put it in the wiki opinion polls table then.
    Very much so.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    RobD said:

    spudgfsh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
    There's an entertaining argument going on about it on the Wikipedia article
    Surely a slam dunk to not include as it isn’t a national VI poll.
    currently the consensus is to keep it on there....
  • Not only is the prime minister spending Sunday campaigning in his own seat – he’s run into his Labour rival while doing so…

    https://x.com/jamesrbuk/status/1804888178207166930

    Rishi Sunak's seat is apparently in trouble.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,270

    Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!

    It has to be said that Lady Vic is pretty.

    I make no comment on Sir Keir.
    She is beautiful but so is SKS. SKS knows what he's doing.
    Starmer has got better looking with age and has amazing hair ! and yes his wife is beautiful. That pic of them at the Taylor Swift concert is lovely.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,909

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    Lol!!

    Was just going to clarify that key point.

    Seems bonkers that Labour has such a lead with GB News fans!
    Incredible really. Those are similar percentages to the Goodwin poll from a few days ago.

    It seems to imply there are changes from 14-16 June. Why are they doing regular polling of such a tiny population?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,175

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    I think that's incredibly naïve and closed-minded.

    Was it Brexit or Boris that created the insane National Service policy in your eyes?
    So you think if the National Service policy hadn't been introduced the Tories would be flying high? No of course not they would still be exactly where they are now. That was a desperate attempt at something to get them out of the sh*t they were already in. Same for every cock up.

    They are here because of Boris and what he did. He put them here in the first place and the fiasco of Brexit put him into Downing Street.

    How is that naive and closed minded. Seems pretty much common sense. Tories were doing ok until Brexit and then the shambles of Brexit brought us Boris and sleaze and lies.
    Flying high? No, I think time for a change would have seen Labour win either way.

    Not been annihilated? Yes.

    And not just National Service, every other disastrous mistake Sunak has made too.
    Remove Boris from the story, Sunak is working his way up the greasy pole normally. Trade Secretary or something like that. People talking him up as the man to reinvent Conservatism after the coming defeat. Got some of the stupid out, and some steel in, before anyone was really watching.

    But given how loudly he backed Brexit and Boris, it's hard to feel too sorry for him.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    spudgfsh said:

    RobD said:

    spudgfsh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
    There's an entertaining argument going on about it on the Wikipedia article
    Surely a slam dunk to not include as it isn’t a national VI poll.
    currently the consensus is to keep it on there....
    The usual silly argument is "well people can look at it and then they'll understand what it is" or "Let's put a note at the bottom no one will read". It's bad form but trying to get open source geeks to curate things properly is hard.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    Jesus, Labour down to 38% now!
    540 person sample size, done for GB news, who also commissioned the Peoplepolling poll that showed Farage's mob on 24%. Now, I know these are all BPC, but part of me thinks there's some fuckery going on here.
    Yes but kudos to them for managing to survey GBeebies’s entire viewership in one poll. Presumably they just spent a few mid-afternoons lurking near Toby Carvery waiting for the post-Countdown rush shuffle.
  • Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll 520 GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Ah, thanks. A bit naughty of someone to put it in the wiki opinion polls table then.
    Very much so.
    Still gives a 144 labour majority if Baxtered.

    Suggests that GB news watchers are mainly Sun/Mirror reader types and a good slew are sticking with Nurse Starmer.
  • Sunak backed Johnson to be leader. His judgment is terrible.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    OnboardG1 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    RobD said:

    spudgfsh said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    That's a poll GB News viewers not of all voters.

    https://x.com/JLPartnersPolls/status/1804823525191999652

    https://jlpartners.co.uk/polling-results
    Then that absolutely should not be in the wiki or anyone else's polling average.
    There's an entertaining argument going on about it on the Wikipedia article
    Surely a slam dunk to not include as it isn’t a national VI poll.
    currently the consensus is to keep it on there....
    The usual silly argument is "well people can look at it and then they'll understand what it is" or "Let's put a note at the bottom no one will read". It's bad form but trying to get open source geeks to curate things properly is hard.
    I'm long past trying to intervene in these discussions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,959
    edited June 23
    Ashfield Election Leaflet Count.

    My postbox, over the last week or so:

    Labour: 5
    Tory:0
    RekUK:1
    Ashfield Indy: 6 (Including a Survey of Residents, and a "Independent Local News". The latter looks like it has 2 or 3 sub-constituency area editions.)
    LibDem:0
    Green:0
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    @LostPassword I've edited your post to avoid any confusion about that poll.

    A very wise precaution.
    In fairness to you the GB NEWS VIEWERS POLL KLAXON is a specialist countermeasure. Few PBers have experience of it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,175
    nico679 said:

    Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!

    It has to be said that Lady Vic is pretty.

    I make no comment on Sir Keir.
    She is beautiful but so is SKS. SKS knows what he's doing.
    Starmer has got better looking with age and has amazing hair ! and yes his wife is beautiful. That pic of them at the Taylor Swift concert is lovely.
    One of Stephen Fry's novels (The Liar, maybe?) has a riff on how everyone has an optimal age- the one where they are most authentically themselves and look good doing it. Often it's about youth, and not just physically. Fry made a better young fogey than old one. But Hugh Grant is much more interesting in Paddington or playing Jeremy Thorpe than he was in all those Curtistown movies in the nineties.

    Starmer's probably entering his right now. He's going to need it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,255
    Without Brexit, there are * a lot* of decisions taken pre 2015 that would have hurt the Conservatives, by now.

    1. Poor candidate selection
    2. Making younger voters, who are now getting older, bear the brunt of austerity, while exempting pensioners.
    3. Prioritising keeping house prices high over building new homes.
    4. Keeping interest rates too low for too long
    5. Defence and justice cuts.
    6. Trebling student fees.

    And of course, there would be fall out from Covid and Ukraine.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933

    Just got off the chopper after three and a half weeks of nights out in the middle of the North Sea.

    Aberdeen looks very pretty in the sunshine this afternoon from my 6th floor room.

    My taxi driver from the heliport said nothing about politics, immigration or current affairs.

    I don't think I will ever make a globetrotting travel writer as clearly I don't meet the right sort of people.

    But did your taxi driver previously play professional football in Italy ?
    He had a Brazilian name.... I think. D'Souza. So he might have played for Brazil. But since I am not a globetrotting travel writer I didn't think to ask.
    I’m detecting a tiny hint of sarcasm?

    Thing is in my job I take a trillion taxis a year, so statistically I’m more likely to encounter some interesting ones (and they tend to be less racist these days, what with user feedback etc)

    Also, and I know PB will never believe me, the Albanian football player was absolutely true. But I’ve given up trying to persuade people and it will enter pb folklore as a fantasy, c’est la vie!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,837
    edited June 23
    Obviously it is tragic, etc but this on the BBC website after the Dean of Peterborough pulled out of a Gaza rally saying he didn't want to associate with people who think Israel shouldn't exist:

    "Patrick Brooks, secretary of the rally's organisers, the Peterborough Palestine Solidarity Campaign, said they were "sorry" the dean had pulled out, and added that the "slaughter of citizens of Gaza is our driving force"."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    Lol!!

    Was just going to clarify that key point.

    Seems bonkers that Labour has such a lead with GB News fans!
    A sign of the times, and that even some of the Reform backing viewers will think it necessary to vote Labour locally to beat the Tories.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249
    TimS said:

    Is everyone resolutely ignoring the JL Partners poll, which I think is brekky published, or am I missing the frenzied discussion earlier in the thread, or yesterday, or whenever?

    J L Partners (17-20 June; changes on 14-16)
    CON 24% (+1)
    LAB 38% (-2)
    LDM 8% (-1)
    GRN 3% (-2)
    RFM 25% (+7)

    Bit of a shocker I thought.

    EDIT - THIS IS A POLL OF GB NEWS VIEWERS

    Lol!!

    Was just going to clarify that key point.

    Seems bonkers that Labour has such a lead with GB News fans!
    Incredible really. Those are similar percentages to the Goodwin poll from a few days ago.

    It seems to imply there are changes from 14-16 June. Why are they doing regular polling of such a tiny population?
    The 14-16 poll was their regular poll for the Rest is Politics podcast. Not comparable. Sorry!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,161
    nico679 said:

    Not being funny but SKS is a good looking man and his wife is a good looking woman! Beautiful people attract beautiful people!

    It has to be said that Lady Vic is pretty.

    I make no comment on Sir Keir.
    She is beautiful but so is SKS. SKS knows what he's doing.
    Starmer has got better looking with age and has amazing hair ! and yes his wife is beautiful. That pic of them at the Taylor Swift concert is lovely.
    I’d say pretty rather than beautiful

    But, much more importantly, they seem genuinely happy together (as far as you can tell from a few photos)
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,368
    Leon said:

    Just got off the chopper after three and a half weeks of nights out in the middle of the North Sea.

    Aberdeen looks very pretty in the sunshine this afternoon from my 6th floor room.

    My taxi driver from the heliport said nothing about politics, immigration or current affairs.

    I don't think I will ever make a globetrotting travel writer as clearly I don't meet the right sort of people.

    But did your taxi driver previously play professional football in Italy ?
    He had a Brazilian name.... I think. D'Souza. So he might have played for Brazil. But since I am not a globetrotting travel writer I didn't think to ask.
    I’m detecting a tiny hint of sarcasm?

    Thing is in my job I take a trillion taxis a year, so statistically I’m more likely to encounter some interesting ones (and they tend to be less racist these days, what with user feedback etc)

    Also, and I know PB will never believe me, the Albanian football player was absolutely true. But I’ve given up trying to persuade people and it will enter pb folklore as a fantasy, c’est la vie!
    Hey I have known you long enough that I reckon I can take the piss a bit. ;)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,767

    kjh said:

    nico679 said:

    I don’t think Sunak deserves to lose his seat . He hasn’t helped himself but the Tories problems started with Partygate and further imploded with Truss .

    I’m still incredulous at the list of Tories who yearn for the return of Bozo , it’s like they just think the country is going to forget he’s a proven pathological liar who would have served a long Commons suspension if he hadn’t resigned to avoid that .

    If Tories still think he’s part of the solution then they’re utterly deluded .

    I think the Tories problems started with Brexit that then led to Boris. Nothing else.

    Truss was just a blip and Sunak is just the unfortunate sod who inherited the mess.

    Brexit and Boris - Nothing else. The combination may well have destroyed the party.
    Brexit fundamentally is the cause but Johnson's 2019 win was actually long term a disaster for the party as it removed it even further from its core support. It worked because of Jeremy Corbyn.
    I agree but just to clarify:

    Boris won in 2019 for 2 reasons:

    1) Get Brexit done
    2) Corbyn

    But 'Get Brexit done' was the main reason. Remember in 2017 Corbyn was there then. May ran a disastrous election admittedly which didn't help, but Corbyn was there still. The big Tory majority was in 2019 and the big difference was 'Get Brexit done'

    So Boris only got to be PM because of the shambles after Brexit caused by the cocked up Brexit. And Boris primarily won in 2019 on the basis of getting Brexit done. All else stems from that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,959
    edited June 23
    MattW said:

    Ashfield Election Leaflet Count.

    My postbox, over the last week or so:

    Labour: 5
    Tory:0
    RekUK:1
    Ashfield Indy: 6 (Including a Survey of Residents, and a "Independent Local News". The latter looks like it has 2 or 3 sub-constituency area editions.)
    LibDem:0
    Green:0

    Just skimmed the AI news paper - very dodgy barcharts.

    (Don't ask - all recycled.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249

    @LostPassword I've edited your post to avoid any confusion about that poll.

    A very wise precaution.
    In fairness to you the GB NEWS VIEWERS POLL KLAXON is a specialist countermeasure. Few PBers have experience of it.
    Really needs a flashing light with a change of lightbulb too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    spudgfsh said:

    it's behind the paywall but there's a poll for Richmond

    Sunak 39%
    Labour 28%
    Reform 18%

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/sunak-set-to-hang-on-as-mp-despite-predictions-he-could-lose-seat-3127383

    I still think he is seriously under threat as there's an undercurrent of rebellious former Tories eagerly wanting to make history, but Richmond is one of those seats that should never be in play, especially when a senior Minister is the MP.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,284
    Sean_F said:

    Without Brexit, there are * a lot* of decisions taken pre 2015 that would have hurt the Conservatives, by now.

    1. Poor candidate selection
    2. Making younger voters, who are now getting older, bear the brunt of austerity, while exempting pensioners.
    3. Prioritising keeping house prices high over building new homes.
    4. Keeping interest rates too low for too long
    5. Defence and justice cuts.
    6. Trebling student fees.

    And of course, there would be fall out from Covid and Ukraine.

    But they got all the big calls right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933

    Leon said:

    Just got off the chopper after three and a half weeks of nights out in the middle of the North Sea.

    Aberdeen looks very pretty in the sunshine this afternoon from my 6th floor room.

    My taxi driver from the heliport said nothing about politics, immigration or current affairs.

    I don't think I will ever make a globetrotting travel writer as clearly I don't meet the right sort of people.

    But did your taxi driver previously play professional football in Italy ?
    He had a Brazilian name.... I think. D'Souza. So he might have played for Brazil. But since I am not a globetrotting travel writer I didn't think to ask.
    I’m detecting a tiny hint of sarcasm?

    Thing is in my job I take a trillion taxis a year, so statistically I’m more likely to encounter some interesting ones (and they tend to be less racist these days, what with user feedback etc)

    Also, and I know PB will never believe me, the Albanian football player was absolutely true. But I’ve given up trying to persuade people and it will enter pb folklore as a fantasy, c’est la vie!
    Hey I have known you long enough that I reckon I can take the piss a bit. ;)
    Indeed

    Also I’m standing by the “sistine chapel of the neolithic” staring at the second fastest tidal current in Europe
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    England turning the screw
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Ashfield Election Leaflet Count.

    My postbox, over the last week or so:

    Labour: 5
    Tory:0
    RekUK:1
    Ashfield Indy: 6 (Including a Survey of Residents, and a "Independent Local News". The latter looks like it has 2 or 3 sub-constituency area editions.)
    LibDem:0
    Green:0

    Just skimmed the AI news paper - very dodgy barcharts.
    Misleading use of data or proportions, just flat out wrong data?

    In past elections all the barcharts I received were accurate, it was disappointing.
  • Nah Mrs Starmer is a beauty.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    @LostPassword I've edited your post to avoid any confusion about that poll.

    A very wise precaution.
    In fairness to you the GB NEWS VIEWERS POLL KLAXON is a specialist countermeasure. Few PBers have experience of it.
    Really needs a flashing light with a change of lightbulb too.
    Indeed. And perhaps some form of water spray to ensure one’s attention is captured by a third sense.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249
    The Gloucestershire captain did a Sunak this morning. He won the toss, decided to bowl, and now Yorkshire are 295/0.

    Anyone know what the record first class opening partnership is when put into bat?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    On the topic of France, this is an interestingly provocative thread:

    https://x.com/bswud/status/1804899087197564950

    Coming from a country with a strong communitarian ethos based on solidarity, safety, equality, and minimising risk of harm or upset, the UK, it’s interesting to visit one with a national character more based around freedom, independence, and progress at any cost, France.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,472

    The Gloucestershire captain did a Sunak this morning. He won the toss, decided to bowl, and now Yorkshire are 295/0.

    Anyone know what the record first class opening partnership is when put into bat?

    Surely that’s doing a Nasser Hussain?
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494

    England turning the screw

    jordan is having a good over
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161
    Leon said:

    Just got off the chopper after three and a half weeks of nights out in the middle of the North Sea.

    Aberdeen looks very pretty in the sunshine this afternoon from my 6th floor room.

    My taxi driver from the heliport said nothing about politics, immigration or current affairs.

    I don't think I will ever make a globetrotting travel writer as clearly I don't meet the right sort of people.

    But did your taxi driver previously play professional football in Italy ?
    He had a Brazilian name.... I think. D'Souza. So he might have played for Brazil. But since I am not a globetrotting travel writer I didn't think to ask.
    I’m detecting a tiny hint of sarcasm?

    Thing is in my job I take a trillion taxis a year, so statistically I’m more likely to encounter some interesting ones (and they tend to be less racist these days, what with user feedback etc)

    Also, and I know PB will never believe me, the Albanian football player was absolutely true. But I’ve given up trying to persuade people and it will enter pb folklore as a fantasy, c’est la vie!
    Oh great FAKE @Leon is going to give up.

    So fuck off from this forum with your bullshitting stories which are so obviously FAKE. An almost endless stream of made up bs from one expensive hotel balcony to the next.

    Ooooooh look at me! I know Odessa because I can see it from my hotel room. FAKE LEON the PHONEY TRAVEL WRITER
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    kle4 said:

    spudgfsh said:

    it's behind the paywall but there's a poll for Richmond

    Sunak 39%
    Labour 28%
    Reform 18%

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/sunak-set-to-hang-on-as-mp-despite-predictions-he-could-lose-seat-3127383

    I still think he is seriously under threat as there's an undercurrent of rebellious former Tories eagerly wanting to make history, but Richmond is one of those seats that should never be in play, especially when a senior Minister is the MP.
    Based on the notional 2019 result for the new constituency that would be Conservative -24, Labour +12 so that's an 18% swing which would put the Conservatives in the 110-120 seats area but that doesn't mean much at this stage.

    R&NA is currently the 29th safest Conservative seat.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,959
    edited June 23
    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Ashfield Election Leaflet Count.

    My postbox, over the last week or so:

    Labour: 5
    Tory:0
    RekUK:1
    Ashfield Indy: 6 (Including a Survey of Residents, and a "Independent Local News". The latter looks like it has 2 or 3 sub-constituency area editions.)
    LibDem:0
    Green:0

    Just skimmed the AI news paper - very dodgy barcharts.
    Misleading use of data or proportions, just flat out wrong data?

    In past elections all the barcharts I received were accurate, it was disappointing.
    Misleading presentation of last GE election.

    Out of proportion obvs, and an egregious presentation of Con 19231, Ash Ind 13,498 and Lab 11,971 as "Lee 19231, Jason 13498, Labour 7260 behind). With bars that would roughly match 19231, 17000 and 6000 respectively.
This discussion has been closed.