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Defining legacies – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    We must all still vote Conservative at this election.

    Why continue to vote Conservative? It’s very easy to answer. 14 years of Conservative government has protected you and our Nation from the horrors and household bill increases of Labours Nanny State. Thinking of voting Labour, you are voting to be Nannied, voting for New taxes on your weekly shop as well as mandatory health targets
    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/health/national-food-strategy-is-an-off-the-shelf-solution-for-labour/691923.article
    Labour are instinctive nanny state-ers. VAT on junk food, fast food and your deliveries, the deliveroo tax in the Telegraph, Labours whopper tax The Sun will dub it. Labours policy on take aways is to always take away your individual freedom. If Labour leave families only aspiring to Just Eat, unable to afford it anymore, it’s yet another attack on aspiration.

    Labour = enemy of freedom of choice, policy after policy. So protect the aspiration of families, protect everyone’s individual freedoms, give people back THEIR money, and don’t let everyone in this country get sucked into the massive Socialist State. THIS is what this election is really all about, if Team Sunak wasn’t so useless.

    Vote Tory so you can eat yourself to chronic disease, cost the NHS millions and then die young, gasping for breath on a hospital floor!
    Yes. It’s about freedom and rights.
    Actually wait. I’ll come back with a better answer.
    I guess we'll be waiting a while.
    Is it be mean to @MoonRabbit day ?

    I think she adds to the gaiety of the nation.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    Is that the Political Betting equivalent of "I do have a girlfriend but she lives in Canada"?
    ..


  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    biggles said:

    Farooq said:

    Can anyone point to the list of businesspeople who have endorsed the Conservatives for this election?
    Thanks in advance.

    1) Michael Green
    2) Erm, that’s it…
    Corinne Stockheath has provided marketing services on a pro bono basis.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Nigelb said:

    We must all still vote Conservative at this election.

    Why continue to vote Conservative? It’s very easy to answer. 14 years of Conservative government has protected you and our Nation from the horrors and household bill increases of Labours Nanny State. Thinking of voting Labour, you are voting to be Nannied, voting for New taxes on your weekly shop as well as mandatory health targets
    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/health/national-food-strategy-is-an-off-the-shelf-solution-for-labour/691923.article
    Labour are instinctive nanny state-ers. VAT on junk food, fast food and your deliveries, the deliveroo tax in the Telegraph, Labours whopper tax The Sun will dub it. Labours policy on take aways is to always take away your individual freedom. If Labour leave families only aspiring to Just Eat, unable to afford it anymore, it’s yet another attack on aspiration.

    Labour = enemy of freedom of choice, policy after policy. So protect the aspiration of families, protect everyone’s individual freedoms, give people back THEIR money, and don’t let everyone in this country get sucked into the massive Socialist State. THIS is what this election is really all about, if Team Sunak wasn’t so useless.

    Vote Tory so you can eat yourself to chronic disease, cost the NHS millions and then die young, gasping for breath on a hospital floor!
    Yes. It’s about freedom and rights.
    Actually wait. I’ll come back with a better answer.
    I guess we'll be waiting a while.
    Is it be mean to @MoonRabbit day ?

    I think she adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    Chat shit, get banged.
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    Worried it might damage his popularity?
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    There are 3 local by-elections today. We have another Ind defence in Highland; and Ind elected as Labour in West Dunbartonshire; and a Con defence in Greenwich.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    Leon said:

    First opinion polls since Macron's snap election announcement:

    Rassemblement national/Le Pen: 31%
    Left alliance/Melenchon: 28%
    Renaissance/Macron: 18%

    image

    Isn’t that basically what it is now? So macrons gamble will do… nothing. If that is the result
    Like Trudeaus snap election trying to benefit from a covid bump. The most boring outcome ever that one.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Nigelb said:

    We must all still vote Conservative at this election.

    Why continue to vote Conservative? It’s very easy to answer. 14 years of Conservative government has protected you and our Nation from the horrors and household bill increases of Labours Nanny State. Thinking of voting Labour, you are voting to be Nannied, voting for New taxes on your weekly shop as well as mandatory health targets
    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/health/national-food-strategy-is-an-off-the-shelf-solution-for-labour/691923.article
    Labour are instinctive nanny state-ers. VAT on junk food, fast food and your deliveries, the deliveroo tax in the Telegraph, Labours whopper tax The Sun will dub it. Labours policy on take aways is to always take away your individual freedom. If Labour leave families only aspiring to Just Eat, unable to afford it anymore, it’s yet another attack on aspiration.

    Labour = enemy of freedom of choice, policy after policy. So protect the aspiration of families, protect everyone’s individual freedoms, give people back THEIR money, and don’t let everyone in this country get sucked into the massive Socialist State. THIS is what this election is really all about, if Team Sunak wasn’t so useless.

    Vote Tory so you can eat yourself to chronic disease, cost the NHS millions and then die young, gasping for breath on a hospital floor!
    Yes. It’s about freedom and rights.
    Actually wait. I’ll come back with a better answer.
    I guess we'll be waiting a while.
    Is it be mean to @MoonRabbit day ?

    I think she adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    I find reading her comments a salutary reminder what it must be like for others, trying to read some of my longer efforts.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,315
    Nigelb said:

    What do PB's tech fraternity make of the Palantir launch ?
    https://aip.palantir.com/workflow/d8d7117b-57de-41be-aba3-2955aa525c24

    Everybody has to have an AI strategy these days.

    So PMs are rebranding whatever it is that they have already as AI, maybe smearing an LLM over the top so they can say they’re partnering with OpenAI or something.

    Which makes it very hard to sort the actually innovative wheat from the enormous amounts of chaff...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    So Guido has published his story.

    What a load of overhyped bollocks.

    Indeed, person dated more than one woman before marriage is hardly the biggest revelation of the week, it has to compete with head of religious organisation with specific injunction against homosexual acts in its religious texts not hyper keen on gays.
    It must be a lead in. That can't be all there is, surely?

    It barely reaches the very low bar of being more interesting than Labour's manifesto.

    Unless there are progeny that he's disowned and refuses to pay for there's clearly not going to be a scandal.
    Yes this must be a teaser. It’s embarrassingly bad if this is it. My guess is - like any sensible journalist - he’s stringing it out for maximum effect

    If it literally is just this then standards are falling even amongst guttersnipes and snitches
    But even as a teaser, it's rubbish.

    Guido has always been more sizzle than sausage, but where's the sizzle here?

    Even the plaintive mention of Boris is a bit sad.
    His heart's not in it. He doesn't like Starmer but hates Rishi and wants Farage to defeat the Tories, this doesn't help that at all.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    So Labour might not be promising radical change, but at least they'll run things competently and properly, avoiding really obvious foreseeable pitfalls of the type that the Conservatives keep stumbling into.

    Think I'll just head off to the manifesto page on their website to be reassured about that:



    ...oh.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,666

    ToryJim said:

    So Guido has published his story.

    What a load of overhyped bollocks.

    Indeed, person dated more than one woman before marriage is hardly the biggest revelation of the week, it has to compete with head of religious organisation with specific injunction against homosexual acts in its religious texts not hyper keen on gays.
    It must be a lead in. That can't be all there is, surely?

    It barely reaches the very low bar of being more interesting than Labour's manifesto.

    Unless there are progeny that he's disowned and refuses to pay for there's clearly not going to be a scandal.
    No, it is definitely less interesting than the Labour manifesto. Which was designed by SMERSH to kill with boredom, I think.
    It has the singular advantage of being shorter.

    The manifesto's only interest is in what it doesn't say.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Tremendous rainstorm here in Odessa. PLUS a sequence of air raid sirens

    So one has the vague inclination to go to the air raid shelter but it means one will get absolutely drenched. And probably for nothing

    What to do?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    I read the comment from @MoonRabbit and sniggered a little. Have to vote Tory or else you get a government who does nanny state stuff like banning adverts of junk food (as defined by pencil-pushing bureaucrats) to children, or the laborious High Fat Salt Sugar regulations.

    No, strike that, reverse it. The TORIES are the nanny state doing the exact same thing she is attacking Labour for doing.

    This is why the Tories are absolutely doomed. Can't accept reality, keep saying black is white. etc.

    Gentle tip: I skip over all your posts now.

    The rants from the stands are some of the most boring on the site.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    slade said:

    There are 3 local by-elections today. We have another Ind defence in Highland; and Ind elected as Labour in West Dunbartonshire; and a Con defence in Greenwich.

    The last will be the turnaround Rishi needs.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,250
    ToryJim said:

    I was reading an article and came across this quote which I think sums up things quite nicely.

    Russia occupies and will continue to occupy a commanding position in every struggle against popular rights… And though other governments, its allies and subordinates, may seem to be most active, yet they are but puppets on the stage..: The motive power is the man behind the scenes, the leader of Russia. He is the formidable antagonist of the peoples. He is … impelled by a hostility to free institutions that admits if no compromise and yields to no relaxation”

    When do people think this was written (no googling!)

    My guess the mid 1930s
    Before then

  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    glw said:

    pigeon said:

    They're lying because the electorate doesn't want to hear the truth, and will punish anyone who tells it. It's possible to be deeply unimpressed and frustrated with all the rubbish politicians churn out, and to understand why they do it at the same time.

    Labour is using fantasies about rampant economic growth to disguise its true intentions. They're either lying about an end to austerity, lying about freezes to income tax and NI rates, or there are big increases coming in taxes where they've not yet been explicitly ruled out. Look for the holes in the manifesto where Reeves is leaving wriggle room for the latter.

    Exactly what Paul Johnson at the IFS was saying. Working people will pay more tax because of fiscal drag, and there will still need to be significant tax increases as the alternative required cuts to spending are not viable.

    Every party is basically taking the electorate for fools.
    But only one party will have to follow through - this is a mistake by Labour, which is unlikely to cost them now but could feed a narrative later.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    ToryJim said:

    I was reading an article and came across this quote which I think sums up things quite nicely.

    Russia occupies and will continue to occupy a commanding position in every struggle against popular rights… And though other governments, its allies and subordinates, may seem to be most active, yet they are but puppets on the stage..: The motive power is the man behind the scenes, the leader of Russia. He is the formidable antagonist of the peoples. He is … impelled by a hostility to free institutions that admits if no compromise and yields to no relaxation”

    When do people think this was written (no googling!)

    My guess the mid 1930s
    Before then

    Late Tsarist times but before the revolutions of 1905

    So about 1895?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    stodge said:

    We must all still vote Conservative at this election.

    Why continue to vote Conservative? It’s very easy to answer. 14 years of Conservative government has protected you and our Nation from the horrors and household bill increases of Labours Nanny State. Thinking of voting Labour, you are voting to be Nannied, voting for New taxes on your weekly shop as well as mandatory health targets
    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/health/national-food-strategy-is-an-off-the-shelf-solution-for-labour/691923.article
    Labour are instinctive nanny state-ers. VAT on junk food, fast food and your deliveries, the deliveroo tax in the Telegraph, Labours whopper tax The Sun will dub it. Labours policy on take aways is to always take away your individual freedom. If Labour leave families only aspiring to Just Eat, unable to afford it anymore, it’s yet another attack on aspiration.

    Labour = enemy of freedom of choice, policy after policy. So protect the aspiration of families, protect everyone’s individual freedoms, give people back THEIR money, and don’t let everyone in this country get sucked into the massive Socialist State. THIS is what this election is really all about, if Team Sunak wasn’t so useless.

    It's not about Freedom TO, it's about Freedom FROM.

    Freedom from Poverty, Hunger, Ignorance or to put it into more meaningful terms freedom from having to wait months or years for a hospital appointment, freedom from pain, freedom from fear of crime and freedom from becoming a victim not just of petty crime but freedom from corporate crime, freedom from being gouged by foreign-owned corporations and freedom from the pathetic services they provide.

    The Conservatives have had 14 years in Government to make it a better place for the citizens - they have failed dismally and completely. That's not to say there isn't a place for conservative thinking but that's not to be found in the current iteration of the Party.

    That Party needs to, pace Dracula, be held down and have a stake driven through its still beating heart.

    From there, perhaps, it can return as a genuinely conservative party interested in the welfare of all citizens.
    This thread is starting to read like a Pinter play
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 13

    I read the comment from @MoonRabbit and sniggered a little. Have to vote Tory or else you get a government who does nanny state stuff like banning adverts of junk food (as defined by pencil-pushing bureaucrats) to children, or the laborious High Fat Salt Sugar regulations.

    No, strike that, reverse it. The TORIES are the nanny state doing the exact same thing she is attacking Labour for doing.

    This is why the Tories are absolutely doomed. Can't accept reality, keep saying black is white. etc.

    Gentle tip: I skip over all your posts now.

    The rants from the stands are some of the most boring on the site.
    Lol.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    So Guido has published his story.

    What a load of overhyped bollocks.

    The story seems to be that Sir Keir was a bit of a shagger in his younger years and had lots of girlfriends.

    So what?
    Seems praiseworthy. Good lawyers often work outside their briefs, don't they? :wink:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,628
    edited June 13
    Labour will introduce a new Race Equality Act with a right to equal pay and mandatory ethnicity pay gap reporting. (p. 88)

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    Just out of interest, is anyone on here desperate for tax cuts?

    Anecdotal I know, but on a regular catch-up call with my brother, he raised the election with the comment: "I don't want tax cuts, I want things fixed". He's a self-employed plumber, voted Tory in 2019, marginal south coast seat.

    That's funny. I keep hearing people complaining at how the tax burden is at a record high.
    I'm surprised that the LibDems haven't said that if/when the economy allows they would move the Income Tax bands. This was popular when they did it in the coalition and is fairer than playing with NIC.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    edited June 13
    Argentina have joined the so-called Ramstein meetings that coordinate military support for Ukraine.

    https://x.com/KyivIndependent/status/1801216513606897981
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    Is that the Political Betting equivalent of "I do have a girlfriend but she lives in Canada"?
    Or "Finland", not that I think Rishi Sunak was the object of that non story.
    “Finland” was quite something. I hope it is true.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    So Labour might not be promising radical change, but at least they'll run things competently and properly, avoiding really obvious foreseeable pitfalls of the type that the Conservatives keep stumbling into.

    Think I'll just head off to the manifesto page on their website to be reassured about that:



    ...oh.

    This would happen in the Lib Dem campaign, where seeming acts of incompetence are actually part of a master PR strategy.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Labour will introduce a new Race Equality Act with a right to equal pay and mandatory ethnicity pay gap reporting.

    Another layer of pointless wokeness

    God help us. We are about to replace the world’s worst governments with the world’s even worse worst government. Where is the hope? The surprise? The dash for glory? Anything?

    It’s gonna be woke micromanagement of endless decline
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    What possible reason is there for having to wait until after the election? Has the King/MI5 sworn you to secrecy whilst Sunak is PM?

    My DM is always open by the way. As with the Finland rumour.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    Farooq said:

    ToryJim said:

    So Guido has published his story.

    What a load of overhyped bollocks.

    Indeed, person dated more than one woman before marriage is hardly the biggest revelation of the week, it has to compete with head of religious organisation with specific injunction against homosexual acts in its religious texts not hyper keen on gays.
    I keep on telling everybody that everyone loves a lawyer, Starmer is the prime example of that.
    It's for the best. They'll fuck you anyway, so you may as well enjoy it.
    “A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns.”
  • Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    What possible reason is there for having to wait until after the election? Has the King/MI5 sworn you to secrecy whilst Sunak is PM?

    My DM is always open by the way. As with the Finland rumour.
    As is mine!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Labour will introduce a new Race Equality Act with a right to equal pay and mandatory ethnicity pay gap reporting. (p. 88)

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

    Urgh.
    I’m 1/8th Tamil. Which box should I tick?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    Is that the Political Betting equivalent of "I do have a girlfriend but she lives in Canada"?
    Or "Finland", not that I think Rishi Sunak was the object of that non story.
    “Finland” was quite something. I hope it is true.
    Accusations of someone being a vote Tampere? :wink:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,628

    Labour will introduce a new Race Equality Act with a right to equal pay and mandatory ethnicity pay gap reporting. (p. 88)

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

    Urgh.
    I’m 1/8th Tamil. Which box should I tick?
    You'll need to call Equality Lawyers R Us to claim your back pay.
  • Starmer is utterly squeaky clean. If there was anything explosive it would have come out by now.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    Eabhal said:

    Wtf is that story by Guido. Even I've had a more complicated love life than Starmer, and I've been blessed with some long, stable relationships.

    Consider the divorce rate. Starmer must be among the more reliable partners anyone can expect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCRZZC-DH7M
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354

    Labour will introduce a new Race Equality Act with a right to equal pay and mandatory ethnicity pay gap reporting. (p. 88)

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

    Urgh.
    I’m 1/8th Tamil. Which box should I tick?
    I don’t see what it adds. The laws against racial discrimination are pretty stringent.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    The sorting of people into racial categories within private employment is beyond ghastly.

    Are HR departments to be furnished with callipers?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,250
    slade said:

    I was reading an article and came across this quote which I think sums up things quite nicely.

    Russia occupies and will continue to occupy a commanding position in every struggle against popular rights… And though other governments, its allies and subordinates, may seem to be most active, yet they are but puppets on the stage..: The motive power is the man behind the scenes, the leader of Russia. He is the formidable antagonist of the peoples. He is … impelled by a hostility to free institutions that admits if no compromise and yields to no relaxation”

    When do people think this was written (no googling!)

    1875?
    I am reminded of Nicholas 1 - The
    Gendarme of Europe'. So 1849?
    Very good

    1851 despatch from the US Envoy Plenipotentiary to St Petersburg
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    The manifesto, like everything else in their campaign for months, is aimed at a few tens of thousands of swing voters.

    It is deeply frustrating.

    And will give them a very weak mandate for change when in government.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Labour will introduce a new Race Equality Act with a right to equal pay and mandatory ethnicity pay gap reporting. (p. 88)

    https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Labour-Party-manifesto-2024.pdf

    Urgh.
    I’m 1/8th Tamil. Which box should I tick?
    A tick for each of your great-grandparents, perhaps?

    I think the Nazis didn't care about people who were only one-eighth Jewish, so perhaps Labour will keep to that standard.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874

    Ugh.

    🔴
    @UKLabour
    commits to introducing the Independent Football Regulator in their manifesto:

    ⚫ Give fans a greater say in the way their clubs are run
    ⚫ Ensure financial sustainability of football clubs
    ⚫ No to closed shop leagues


    https://x.com/FairGameUK/status/1801207402470965324

    I'm quite sure that many Premier league clubs would just quite like it if their local fans just buggered off and found something else to do. Then they could just sell all their TV rights to India and China and not have to worry about the 'local community' and that sort of rubbish.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    The sorting of people into racial categories within private employment is beyond ghastly.

    Are HR departments to be furnished with callipers?

    Labour are going for ultra wokeness just as the tide turns against it in the USA. They could be left very exposed
  • glw said:

    Disappointing from Labour. Nothing on planning reform to ensure better broadband and 4G/5G. I’d have liked to see allowing the heights of masts being upped to match Europe.

    It's a rational idea but a guaranteed vote loser. The number of people who would vote Labour because of it would be massively outnumbered by the NIMBYs/BANANAs who wouldn't.
    Aren't Labour already proposing planning reform?

    I hope they will do this stuff after getting elected. This stuff really is essential.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    Starmer is utterly squeaky clean. If there was anything explosive it would have come out by now.

    You are Julian Clary and I claim my £10.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    The sorting of people into racial categories within private employment is beyond ghastly.

    Are HR departments to be furnished with callipers?

    Labour are going for ultra wokeness just as the tide turns against it in the USA. They could be left very exposed
    Indeed.
    Peak woke has kind of happened here, so far as I can tell. Whereas when I join UK calls they (you?) seem to be heading ever deeper into the loony mines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    The sorting of people into racial categories within private employment is beyond ghastly.

    Are HR departments to be furnished with callipers?

    Labour are going for ultra wokeness just as the tide turns against it in the USA. They could be left very exposed
    Indeed.
    Peak woke has kind of happened here, so far as I can tell. Whereas when I join UK calls they (you?) seem to be heading ever deeper into the loony mines.
    You’re not imagining it
  • A safety first and "boring" Labour manifesto.

    Starmer is home and dry.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Labours manifesto could have just been zip and what will sink Sunak is today’s NHS waiting list numbers .

    The NHS waiting list is like the Death Star . Every one of the Tories list of pledges get caught into the tractor beam.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
    They believe they tested a EU offer to destruction in 2019.

    I’m not sure about your conclusion, though.
    The LDs are trying to win over blue seats who may well no longer believe in Brexit but don’t necessarily want to be reminded how foolish the proposition was.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    ToryJim said:

    So Guido has published his story.

    What a load of overhyped bollocks.

    Indeed, person dated more than one woman before marriage is hardly the biggest revelation of the week, it has to compete with head of religious organisation with specific injunction against homosexual acts in its religious texts not hyper keen on gays.
    I keep on telling everybody that everyone loves a lawyer, Starmer is the prime example of that.
    It's for the best. They'll fuck you anyway, so you may as well enjoy it.
    “A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns.”
    "I got the shotgun; you got the briefcase." - Omar Little
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Leon said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Guido has something

    On Starmers "complicated love life".

    No one cares. We voted for BoJo, remember.

    Another damp squib from guido
    God, that's very thin gruel. Starmer had other girlfriends before he married his wife - shock!
    The rumour is “he had a sex life”

    If he did NOT that would actually be more unusual and interesting. Pathetic! We want zebras and midgets
    Guido has been trailing this for ages - is that it? Hardly the epitome of progressivism to have loved with a few people, and they got married to other people in your social circle.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    We must all still vote Conservative at this election.

    Why continue to vote Conservative? It’s very easy to answer. 14 years of Conservative government has protected you and our Nation from the horrors and household bill increases of Labours Nanny State. Thinking of voting Labour, you are voting to be Nannied, voting for New taxes on your weekly shop as well as mandatory health targets
    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/health/national-food-strategy-is-an-off-the-shelf-solution-for-labour/691923.article
    Labour are instinctive nanny state-ers. VAT on junk food, fast food and your deliveries, the deliveroo tax in the Telegraph, Labours whopper tax The Sun will dub it. Labours policy on take aways is to always take away your individual freedom. If Labour leave families only aspiring to Just Eat, unable to afford it anymore, it’s yet another attack on aspiration.

    Labour = enemy of freedom of choice, policy after policy. So protect the aspiration of families, protect everyone’s individual freedoms, give people back THEIR money, and don’t let everyone in this country get sucked into the massive Socialist State. THIS is what this election is really all about, if Team Sunak wasn’t so useless.

    Vote Tory so you can eat yourself to chronic disease, cost the NHS millions and then die young, gasping for breath on a hospital floor!
    Yes. It’s about freedom and rights.
    Actually wait. I’ll come back with a better answer.
    I guess we'll be waiting a while.
    Is it be mean to @MoonRabbit day ?

    I think she adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    Chat shit, get banged.
    An admirably direct pickup technique.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Any polling due today?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    Is that the Political Betting equivalent of "I do have a girlfriend but she lives in Canada"?
    Or "Finland", not that I think Rishi Sunak was the object of that non story.
    “Finland” was quite something. I hope it is true.
    I thought you were a conservative.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385

    I read the comment from @MoonRabbit and sniggered a little. Have to vote Tory or else you get a government who does nanny state stuff like banning adverts of junk food (as defined by pencil-pushing bureaucrats) to children, or the laborious High Fat Salt Sugar regulations.

    No, strike that, reverse it. The TORIES are the nanny state doing the exact same thing she is attacking Labour for doing.

    This is why the Tories are absolutely doomed. Can't accept reality, keep saying black is white. etc.

    The Tories are doing all this sort of stuff and are fully on board with it.

    I find it bizarre if any Tory complains about labour taking forward policies the Tories planned to implement anyway.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    We must all still vote Conservative at this election.

    Why continue to vote Conservative? It’s very easy to answer. 14 years of Conservative government has protected you and our Nation from the horrors and household bill increases of Labours Nanny State. Thinking of voting Labour, you are voting to be Nannied, voting for New taxes on your weekly shop as well as mandatory health targets
    https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/health/national-food-strategy-is-an-off-the-shelf-solution-for-labour/691923.article
    Labour are instinctive nanny state-ers. VAT on junk food, fast food and your deliveries, the deliveroo tax in the Telegraph, Labours whopper tax The Sun will dub it. Labours policy on take aways is to always take away your individual freedom. If Labour leave families only aspiring to Just Eat, unable to afford it anymore, it’s yet another attack on aspiration.

    Labour = enemy of freedom of choice, policy after policy. So protect the aspiration of families, protect everyone’s individual freedoms, give people back THEIR money, and don’t let everyone in this country get sucked into the massive Socialist State. THIS is what this election is really all about, if Team Sunak wasn’t so useless.

    Vote Tory so you can eat yourself to chronic disease, cost the NHS millions and then die young, gasping for breath on a hospital floor!
    Yes. It’s about freedom and rights.
    Actually wait. I’ll come back with a better answer.
    I guess we'll be waiting a while.
    Is it be mean to @MoonRabbit day ?

    I think she adds to the gaiety of the nation.
    Chat shit, get banged.
    An admirably direct pickup technique.
    Though not, one imagines, the one Starmer used.

    (As it stands, doesn't the Guidosquib work as a minor improvement to SKS's reputation by making him seem less boring?)
  • As @CorrectHorseBattery said many years ago now, Labour has owned the immigration issue unlike 2015.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    edited June 13
    Guardian live blog have changed their headline to the apology over the days of election bet, deeming that a bigger story than the Labour manifesto launch.

    On the one hand, this shows there was no huge blunder to make a story about in the manifesto. But on the other, your manifesto launch should be *the* day when you get noticed in a campaign for the right reasons.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Ugh.

    🔴
    @UKLabour
    commits to introducing the Independent Football Regulator in their manifesto:

    ⚫ Give fans a greater say in the way their clubs are run
    ⚫ Ensure financial sustainability of football clubs
    ⚫ No to closed shop leagues


    https://x.com/FairGameUK/status/1801207402470965324

    I'm quite sure that many Premier league clubs would just quite like it if their local fans just buggered off and found something else to do. Then they could just sell all their TV rights to India and China and not have to worry about the 'local community' and that sort of rubbish.
    There are lots of Nu Football Fans on PB, unfortunately, who support Big Six clubs while having absolutely no link to their locale.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    edited June 13
    Not a great deal on pensions in there. I was expecting far more.

    The WASPI women are disappointed so that's a plus.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    This is why I am slightly in love with Giorgia Meloni. She’s spontaneous and fun. And smart. And quite cute

    “Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni appears to take a selfie as she waits for leaders to arrive at the G-7 summit at Borgo Egnazia

    Latest: bloom.bg/3XtfP6y”

    https://x.com/business/status/1801182702894203360?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Let’s just stop for a second.

    Under Labour’s new proposal, employers will have a statutory responsibility to track your race.
    What next? Sexuality?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Ugh.

    🔴
    @UKLabour
    commits to introducing the Independent Football Regulator in their manifesto:

    ⚫ Give fans a greater say in the way their clubs are run
    ⚫ Ensure financial sustainability of football clubs
    ⚫ No to closed shop leagues


    https://x.com/FairGameUK/status/1801207402470965324

    I'm quite sure that many Premier league clubs would just quite like it if their local fans just buggered off and found something else to do. Then they could just sell all their TV rights to India and China and not have to worry about the 'local community' and that sort of rubbish.
    There are lots of Nu Football Fans on PB, unfortunately, who support Big Six clubs while having absolutely no link to their locale.
    My team are in the Big Eight. ;-)
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 508

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Can anyone point to the list of businesspeople who have endorsed the Conservatives for this election?
    Thanks in advance.

    Mr Frank Hester.
    Er ...
    Michelle Mone?
    Reportedly she's left the Conservative party in a huff over her non-involvement in PPE Medpro.
    So not even an endorsement from her.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    Let’s just stop for a second.

    Under Labour’s new proposal, employers will have a statutory responsibility to track your race.
    What next? Sexuality?

    Don’t give them any ideas.
  • "We will put passengers at the heart of the service by reforming the railways and bringing them into public ownership. We will do this as contracts with existing operators expire or are broken through a failure to deliver, without costing taxpayers a penny in compensation."

    I do wonder if the franchises/contracts will end a lot quicker than expected.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
    It is indeed anti Tory sentiment. So they vote for whichever of Labour, Reform or LD is best placed to beat the Tories and reflects local tastes.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,250

    slade said:

    I was reading an article and came across this quote which I think sums up things quite nicely.

    Russia occupies and will continue to occupy a commanding position in every struggle against popular rights… And though other governments, its allies and subordinates, may seem to be most active, yet they are but puppets on the stage..: The motive power is the man behind the scenes, the leader of Russia. He is the formidable antagonist of the peoples. He is … impelled by a hostility to free institutions that admits if no compromise and yields to no relaxation”

    When do people think this was written (no googling!)

    1875?
    I am reminded of Nicholas 1 - The
    Gendarme of Europe'. So 1849?
    Very good


    1851 despatch from the US Envoy
    Plenipotentiary to St Petersburg

    Bonus points for @Farooq and @Nigelb for highlighting the underlying point even if they didn’t get the answer right
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
    Just listen to you. Desperately trying to ramp a split in the centre left vote to ensure the right don’t get completely hammered.

    But it’s coming.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    This is why I am slightly in love with Giorgia Meloni. She’s spontaneous and fun. And smart. And quite cute

    “Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni appears to take a selfie as she waits for leaders to arrive at the G-7 summit at Borgo Egnazia

    Latest: bloom.bg/3XtfP6y”

    https://x.com/business/status/1801182702894203360?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    You’re learning. Well done.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
    They believe they tested a EU offer to destruction in 2019.

    I’m not sure about your conclusion, though.
    The LDs are trying to win over blue seats who may well no longer believe in Brexit but don’t necessarily want to be reminded how foolish the proposition was.
    No. I’m right they’re wrong and it’s idiotic

    This is probably the one chance they will ever get, to overtake the Tories. And the only way to do it is to be radical on the EU. 2019 was a completely different election - that was the get Brexit done election

    Now Brexit is done and the voters really dislike it. And I’m a Leaver! And still a Leaver. But I can read the polls and people are seriously regretful - that’s millions of votes going begging. Numbskulls
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Thanks Guido.
    You've helped to paint SKS as marginally more interesting to voters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited June 13
    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Edit: with the under 50s!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277



    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
    Just listen to you. Desperately trying to ramp a split in the centre left vote to ensure the right don’t get completely hammered.

    But it’s coming.
    Ffs I’m really not. You are all completely mad

    I’m giving my honest opinion. No one cares what we say on an obscure geeky forum. I’m not trying to game the pb lurkerati

    There is an EU open goal for the libs and they are
    Bonkers to ignore it
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    I note that Nigel Farage is warning of another "catfight" between Angela and Penny tonight. I'm sure many PBers will find such a prospect a huge turn off?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Wha?! Did I miss this?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    Leon said:

    The sorting of people into racial categories within private employment is beyond ghastly.

    Are HR departments to be furnished with callipers?

    Labour are going for ultra wokeness just as the tide turns against it in the USA. They could be left very exposed
    In 5 years maybe.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    Off topic, but many of you will enjoy this cartoon: https://www.gocomics.com/wumo/2024/06/13
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Wha?! Did I miss this?
    Sorry, big correction.

    *With the under 50s*
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Its catching, apparently some people have been influenced to the extent that they struggle to order five numbers properly.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Can't help feeling is that it from Labour? This country has a slew of problems that this government has ignored and that is it. In 2022 there were 329m appointments in primary care. So that is equivalent to an average of 6.32m appointments a week. To which Labour promise to add 40k. Or just over 0.6%.

    They would produce more if they used the money to settle the junior doctors strike. Which they probably will.

    Is this really the height of their ambition? It's pathetic.

    It’s the Ming Vase strategy again. Offer a minimal
    target. The risk is that it’s SO boring voters go elsewhere (but not the Tories)
    They are being seriously outflanked by the Lib Dems here. They are not close to addressing the scope of the problem. They are only getting away with it (if they are) because most of this country and almost all of its media are innumerate.
    Indeed

    This is why I am amazed the Lib Dems aren’t loudly going for “immediately rejoin single market” and “have rejoin referendum in first term”

    I honestly think they could peel off several million Labour Remainers and overtake the Tories. This is their one big chance. And they’re not doing it??!!!
    The voters that are easy to pick up at the moment is 2019 Conservative voters. So Labour, Reform and the LDs are all fishing there.
    That’s bollocks

    The Labour vote is soft as babyfood. See how much it has slipped in 2 weeks of campaigning. Some polls have them down 7 points. No one is enthusiastic about Starmer, it’s just anti Tory sentiment

    So there’s a huge target of Labour Remainers waiting to be tempted by an eu offer from the Lib Dem’s. People like @Roger and many many others

    Millions of them. Also lots of media people

    And they don’t offer it?? This is the one chance they will get. They are dumb as rocks
    Still wittering on about Brexit and the EU? You're welcome to join the rest of us in the 2020s.

    It's all about giving the Conservatives a kicking - you know that - and everyone's looking for the boot with which the job can be done whether it's a Labour boot, a Reform boot, an LD boot or even a Green boot.

    The other part of the polls is the continued drift down of the Conservatives into the low 20s or even below.

    The most successful political movement of the last 150 years by some measures and three weeks from an election they are polling 20%. No one can believe it - some on here still refuse to believe it and yet the evidence is there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Wha?! Did I miss this?
    Sorry, big correction.

    *With the under 50s*
    It is still quite mindblowing
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631

    NEW THREAD

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Edit: with the under 50s!

    Unweighted subsample alert?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,628

    In YouGov’s latest, the Tories are in FIFTH PLACE behind Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Reform.

    Sorry if this has already been remarked upon.

    It’s simply incredible how the Tories have self-immolated by abandoning economic literacy, the support of ambition, standards in governance, and the rule of law.

    Wha?! Did I miss this?
    Sorry, big correction.

    *With the under 50s*
    And Reform are ahead among the 18-24s.

    When the pendulum swings back to the right, it won't be another round of reheated Blairism.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Just another day on the New York subway.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1800554756957708488

    "Okay no Zionists, we're good." The crowd cheers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    mwadams said:

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ooh. Is there salacious goss on starmer?!

    At least it might improve his boring image

    Given your connections, I am surprised you hadn't heard this one before.
    So that's Leon's credibility as a gossip finnished then?
    I can give you something amazing on Sunak. After the election
    Is that the Political Betting equivalent of "I do have a girlfriend but she lives in Canada"?
    Or "Finland", not that I think Rishi Sunak was the object of that non story.
    “Finland” was quite something. I hope it is true.
    I dpon't know why I post cutting puns if nobody even notices.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Just another day on the New York subway.

    https://x.com/HenMazzig/status/1800554756957708488

    "Okay no Zionists, we're good." The crowd cheers.

    This is where all the woke energy has gone.
    Tho I take the subway every day and I haven’t actually seen anything like this, so I wouldn’t call it “just another day”.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    Let’s just stop for a second.

    Under Labour’s new proposal, employers will have a statutory responsibility to track your race.
    What next? Sexuality?

    Have you not seen how every corporation worth its salt has (again) changed its company logo to the latest version of the Pride flag for the month of June?

    Again.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    Leon said:



    Ffs I’m really not. You are all completely mad

    I’m giving my honest opinion. No one cares what we say on an obscure geeky forum. I’m not trying to game the pb lurkerati

    There is an EU open goal for the libs and they are
    Bonkers to ignore it

    Brexit is done, like it or not. There is little point in reopening that wound, it will only benefit the right. I’m driven by revenge and the revenge I want to see is the Tory granderati losing their seats, and the Faragists gaining few or none.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    Thanks Guido.
    You've helped to paint SKS as marginally more interesting to voters.

    His father was a toolmaker, and he certainly knew how to use it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Let’s just stop for a second.

    Under Labour’s new proposal, employers will have a statutory responsibility to track your race.
    What next? Sexuality?

    Have you not seen how every corporation worth its salt has (again) changed its company logo to the latest version of the Pride flag for the month of June?

    Again.
    I have and I just accept it as part of the calendar.
    I have some petty philosophical objections but in the end i think it’s largely harmless and good to recognise diversity in the fullest sense.

    Indeed my townhall later this month will be pride-themed, and I’m planning to open with “You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)” by Sylvester.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,943

    Let’s just stop for a second.

    Under Labour’s new proposal, employers will have a statutory responsibility to track your race.
    What next? Sexuality?

    Have you not seen how every corporation worth its salt has (again) changed its company logo to the latest version of the Pride flag for the month of June?

    Again.
    I have and I just accept it as part of the calendar.
    I have some petty philosophical objections but in the end i think it’s largely harmless and good to recognise diversity in the fullest sense.

    Indeed my townhall later this month will be pride-themed, and I’m planning to open with “You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)” by Sylvester.
    I do not want my race, or sexuality, to be recorded under mandate by law by either government or private companies.

    Look at IBM's complicity in the Holocaust if you want to understand why.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    kyf_100 said:

    Let’s just stop for a second.

    Under Labour’s new proposal, employers will have a statutory responsibility to track your race.
    What next? Sexuality?

    Have you not seen how every corporation worth its salt has (again) changed its company logo to the latest version of the Pride flag for the month of June?

    Again.
    I have and I just accept it as part of the calendar.
    I have some petty philosophical objections but in the end i think it’s largely harmless and good to recognise diversity in the fullest sense.

    Indeed my townhall later this month will be pride-themed, and I’m planning to open with “You Make Me Feel (Mighty Real)” by Sylvester.
    I do not want my race, or sexuality, to be recorded under mandate by law by either government or private companies.

    Look at IBM's complicity in the Holocaust if you want to understand why.

    I agree entirely.
    But I think celebrating “pride” is not un-positive.

    Of course the corporate virtue signalling is a bit silly, but almost all public life is nowadays.
This discussion has been closed.