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Starmer could be the greatest of all time – politicalbetting.com

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  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,292
    Stocky said:

    On a related note, Paddy Power are quoting Reform to win zero seats at 4/1. Personally, I think there's some value in that. With Labour polling so high, it's quite possible that where Reform take a sizeable chunk of the Tory vote, either Labour captures the seat from miles back or the Tories hang on.

    FPTP isn't a normal distribution type chance thing: constituency results are related contingencies. If Reform underperforms their polling, which has been a theme in by-elections (although that might have something to do with their limited activist base that's less relevant to GE's), I think a shut-out is a bigger chance than the one-in-five that PP make it.

    Yes but 5.8 nil Reform seats on Bf and 5.4 on Smarkets.
    Great tip. That's value I think.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    nico679 said:

    Wage growth remained flat at 6% and with bonuses went up. So less chance of an interest rate cut before the election .

    Unemployment edged up slightly to 4.4% .

    Not the best news for Sunak when he publishes his fxck those on sickness and disability benefit to dish out NI cuts manifesto this morning .

    There’s no reason to be less abled or suffering …

    … when you have $1bn.

    This is the reason why I pretty intensely dislike him. The failure to empathise or comprehend that the rest of the country doesn’t operate in his world. We see it in almost everything he says and does, from the myopic Maths focus to ruthless attitude to sickness and disability; from private helicopter travel to abandoning D-Day.

    And when challenged about it all he gets hoity-toity.

    Was this really the best the Conservative Party could do? Ever since David Cameron fell on his sword they’ve had 4 totally unsuitable leaders.
    It’s amusing how people who never would have voted for Cameron now go all misty eyed at his name.
    I voted for David Cameron’s Conservatives in both 2010 and 2015, so spare (me) the snide aside, ta. He also made me money from successful bets :)@TSE note

    Until Brexit, and later Greenshill, I had a lot of respect for him. He was at least competent which is all I mainly require from a leader.

    I know austerity is criticised but we do have to balance the books, you know. Or at least we used to have to until the tories decided to break Britain.
    So you voted for large welfare cuts
    I voted for competence.

    It’s not asking for much.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,592
    Heathener said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    nico679 said:

    Wage growth remained flat at 6% and with bonuses went up. So less chance of an interest rate cut before the election .

    Unemployment edged up slightly to 4.4% .

    Not the best news for Sunak when he publishes his fxck those on sickness and disability benefit to dish out NI cuts manifesto this morning .

    There’s no reason to be less abled or suffering …

    … when you have $1bn.

    This is the reason why I pretty intensely dislike him. The failure to empathise or comprehend that the rest of the country doesn’t operate in his world. We see it in almost everything he says and does, from the myopic Maths focus to ruthless attitude to sickness and disability; from private helicopter travel to abandoning D-Day.

    And when challenged about it all he gets hoity-toity.

    Was this really the best the Conservative Party could do? Ever since David Cameron fell on his sword they’ve had 4 totally unsuitable leaders.
    It’s amusing how people who never would have voted for Cameron now go all misty eyed at his name.
    I voted for David Cameron’s Conservatives in both 2010 and 2015, so spare (me) the snide aside, ta. He also made me money from successful bets :)@TSE note

    Until Brexit, and later Greenshill, I had a lot of respect for him. He was at least competent which is all I mainly require from a leader.

    I know austerity is criticised but we do have to balance the books, you know. Or at least we used to have to until the tories decided to break Britain.
    So you voted for large welfare cuts
    I voted for competence.

    It’s not asking for much.
    You also voted for the EU referendum, so why did Brexit change your opinion of Cameron? Do you think he messed up the renegotiation?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Has he been banned overnight after that foul-mouthed rant at various seasoned posters? Or does he just have a coke hangover?

    I’m a bit suspicious about Tweedledee’s sudden appearance tbh.

    Is this another metamorphosis?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Scott_xP said:

    Ric Holden tweets another letter from the civil service this morning which confirms the Tories lied about it...

    https://x.com/AlexGAThomas/status/1800434635023040935

    Shouldn't Holden be more focused on trying to hold whatever seat he's parachuted himself into?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,811
    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    nico679 said:

    Wage growth remained flat at 6% and with bonuses went up. So less chance of an interest rate cut before the election .

    Unemployment edged up slightly to 4.4% .

    Not the best news for Sunak when he publishes his fxck those on sickness and disability benefit to dish out NI cuts manifesto this morning .

    There’s no reason to be less abled or suffering …

    … when you have $1bn.

    This is the reason why I pretty intensely dislike him. The failure to empathise or comprehend that the rest of the country doesn’t operate in his world. We see it in almost everything he says and does, from the myopic Maths focus to ruthless attitude to sickness and disability; from private helicopter travel to abandoning D-Day.

    And when challenged about it all he gets hoity-toity.

    Was this really the best the Conservative Party could do? Ever since David Cameron fell on his sword they’ve had 4 totally unsuitable leaders.
    It’s amusing how people who never would have voted for Cameron now go all misty eyed at his name.
    I voted for David Cameron’s Conservatives in both 2010 and 2015, so spare (me) the snide aside, ta. He also made me money from successful bets :)@TSE note

    Until Brexit, and later Greenshill, I had a lot of respect for him. He was at least competent which is all I mainly require from a leader.

    I know austerity is criticised but we do have to balance the books, you know. Or at least we used to have to until the tories decided to break Britain.
    So you voted for large welfare cuts with a long-term cap, but you’re criticising Sunak for… welfare cuts?
    Austerity was the right policy in 2010. By 2015ish it was a bad policy. Arguable exactly when it flipped but it was a long time ago and the Conservative party have been muddled and underperforming since then.

    My main criticism of Cameron/Osborne would be that whilst they were not overly ideological in the policies they chose, they became overly wedded with the policies they initially adopted and didn't adapt to the changing landscape.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    How well does government funding of research work, you ask? (OK, maybe you didn't, but tough.)

    I've just received an email from the UK government confirming funding for a 6-month project on AI in healthcare. It says, "You can start your project on 1 March 2024."

    You mean you haven't already started?

    Most research grant applications propose research that is already well underway, to minimise the chances of getting embarrasingly poor results.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    Port of Baltimore is open again, according to the BBC.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,811
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    I'm Selebian. Or Leon.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,775
    Mr. Gaussian, Third Rome is only believed by those who prefer propaganda to history.

    Ms (Mr? Apologies, I forget) Kirk, that book sounds intriguing, thanks for mentioning it. I do feel very sorry for Heraclius. Manages to win a war from a terrible position, recovers all lost territory, then six minutes later Islam's born and an army of Arabs annihilates the Persians then takes most of the Eastern Roman Empire.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    I'm Selebian. Or Leon.
    Could be both :wink:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    mwadams said:

    TimS said:

    I reckon the final margin will be a bit under 20%. In the last 2 weeks Reform will drift back (and Green will continue their slow decline, especially if there's a successful Gaza ceasefire) and that will give back a few percentage points to the Tories and one or two to Labour. In the competition I have Tory 31% and I think Labour 40%.

    Though Rishi does keep trying his damndest to stretch that winning margin further.

    All the Tory wipeout scenarios come from them getting very low vote share, rather than Labour getting a very high one. They will inevitably drift back up which is why an ELE is simply not on the cards. But I don't expect Labour to drift down particularly.

    "They will inevitably drift back up"

    While I agree that *surely* that is what is going to happen (?!), I had assumed that we would have seen that effect by now.

    In fact, we've had 20 of the 43 days of the campaign - nearly half way through - and things are only getting worse.
    This is my view. Take the latest three opinion polls as a random sample and comparing to the last pre-campaign poll for each firm.

    Redfield & Wilton. Tories on 19%, down 4, Labour lead is up by 4.
    JL Partners. Tories on 24%, down 2, Labour lead is up by 2.
    Deltapoll. Tories on 21%, down 2, Labour lead is up by 3.

    Obviously, in the privacy of the polling booth, strange things sometimes happen. The pencil hovers, the voter is wracked by uncertainty and doubt.

    I'm still uncertain about the outcome, but the uncertainty is symmetrical. There could be late moves further against the Tories, or reluctant Tories might return to the fold. An ELE is definitely possible if Sunak's campaign continues to be poor.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    nico679 said:

    Wage growth remained flat at 6% and with bonuses went up. So less chance of an interest rate cut before the election .

    Unemployment edged up slightly to 4.4% .

    Not the best news for Sunak when he publishes his fxck those on sickness and disability benefit to dish out NI cuts manifesto this morning .

    There’s no reason to be less abled or suffering …

    … when you have $1bn.

    This is the reason why I pretty intensely dislike him. The failure to empathise or comprehend that the rest of the country doesn’t operate in his world. We see it in almost everything he says and does, from the myopic Maths focus to ruthless attitude to sickness and disability; from private helicopter travel to abandoning D-Day.

    And when challenged about it all he gets hoity-toity.

    Was this really the best the Conservative Party could do? Ever since David Cameron fell on his sword they’ve had 4 totally unsuitable leaders.
    It’s amusing how people who never would have voted for Cameron now go all misty eyed at his name.
    I voted for David Cameron’s Conservatives in both 2010 and 2015, so spare (me) the snide aside, ta. He also made me money from successful bets :)@TSE note

    Until Brexit, and later Greenshill, I had a lot of respect for him. He was at least competent which is all I mainly require from a leader.

    I know austerity is criticised but we do have to balance the books, you know. Or at least we used to have to until the tories decided to break Britain.
    So you voted for large welfare cuts
    I voted for competence.

    It’s not asking for much.
    You also voted for the EU referendum, so why did Brexit change your opinion of Cameron? Do you think he messed up the renegotiation?
    I think when you put your X in the box you usually accept that there are a range of policies, some you’ll like others you may be ambivalent about, and a few you may be holding your nose over.

    Maybe that’s a difficult concept for the Party workers on here to understand but a great many of us in this country, especially nowadays, don’t have a Party allegiance.

    I’d forgotten he promised the Ref on leaving the EU but like Cameron himself, at the time I didn’t think the country would vote to do so. The rest of that and what happened with the campaigns is one for history now: a bit tedious on here.

    I will admit though that I didn’t make my voting decision in 2015 until I was literally walking to the polling station. It was that difficult to decide.

    Anyhoooo … this is boring. And one or two are needlessly grumpy this morning. So I’ll head out and do my bits n’ bobs.

    x
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)

    Presumably all of them are wasted votes though, barring Labour/Lib (whoever is the challenger)?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Did we ever get the much ramped YouGov poll?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Not sure if covered last night as I was earlyish to my bed but Farage bottled out of his Panorama interview last night. The big brave lad that he is
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,811
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    I'm Selebian. Or Leon.
    Could be both :wink:
    Leonbian or Seleon?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Another measure of whether Starmer might be the GOAT is whether he beats Attlee's 1945 seat gain of +239 (from the previous election).

    Labour on 442 seats and Starmer's gained 240 seats; I think that's entirely possible.

    (Whether or not he is the GOAT, he appears to be the LOAT. Still, a lucky general is a good general.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,811

    Did we ever get the much ramped YouGov poll?

    Conservative Party: 45% (+11 from 4 June)
    Labour Party: 9% (-1)
    Lib Dems: 3% (-2)
    Reform UK: 4% (=)
    SNP: 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru: 1% (=)
    Green Party: 2% (=)
    None of them: 9% (+1)
    Don’t know: 25% (-7)

    The problem for the Tories is the question "Regardless of who you support, who do you think is running the worst general election campaign so far?"
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Did we ever get the much ramped YouGov poll?

    I don't think there was one. Patrick English promised something 'super exciting' coming but I read that as some new type of interactive poll or new type of projection rather than an imminent poll.
    They are due today or tomorrow anyway
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited June 11
    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    I doubt you will - I am very careful.

    Oh, shit, where's the delete button...?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Another measure of whether Starmer might be the GOAT is whether he beats Attlee's 1945 seat gain of +239 (from the previous election).

    Labour on 442 seats and Starmer's gained 240 seats; I think that's entirely possible.

    (Whether or not he is the GOAT, he appears to be the LOAT. Still, a lucky general is a good general.)

    Not really sure how much generalling Starmer is having to do. He’s basically up against the Judean People’s Front Crack Suicide Squad.

    Whilst sitting there watching your opponents immolate themselves will win you an election, and probably very handsomely. It could mean that the shine comes off relatively more quickly than at other times. In 1935 and 1950 a party that had been seriously damaged in the previous election bounced back hard. 2001 shows that’s not guaranteed but it shouldn’t be ignored as a possibility.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.

    What is the ethos of the site?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,937

    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)

    I see myself as left of centre on social issues and right of centre economically, although probably further right economically with some fairly extremely liberal social views - legalise drugs, trans self ID, etc. Quite what that makes me, I have no idea. Classically liberal on steroids, I guess.

    Like you, there is nothing in the world that could convince me to vote Conservative this year, even though I'm pretty certain Labour will hit me with more taxes, we might at least get a competent government out of it. The Conservatives are no longer the party of business, nor are they the party of homeowners, nor are they the party of staying out of other people's business.

    But the thing that has infuriated me most about the campaign so far is that neither the Tories nor Labour are talking anything sensible on immigration. I'm a metropolitan Londoner and I believe that a reasonable amount of immigration is good for the country, from both an economic and societal perspective. Unfortunately what we have is an unreasonable amount of immigration, that's unsustainable given the levels of infrastructure development in the country and also leaves me deeply worried about integration - concerns that have risen drastically since the rise of antisemitism since last year.

    I wouldn't vote for the odious, dog whistling racists in Reform ('doesn't understand our culture', 'London taken over by Islamists' etc) but I think a serious conversation about immigration needs to be had, before our society's infrastructure and cultural cohesion begins to break down. So where do I go? Who do I vote for? I want to vote for a party that has answers on immigration, without hating immigrants.

    It's genuinely infuriating, because it *is* a problem to which none of the main parties has an answer, and the only people willing to discuss it are dog-whistling racists. I'd like to see it tackled before it drives even more people into the arms of the far right.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    If Labour want to be let off the hook for the UKs involvement in the GFC then they need to acknowledge Covid and Ukraine, no?

    The way I look at it, Labour faced 9/11 and the GFC, the Tories faced Covid and Ukraine, plus Brexit which was entirely self-inflicted. Shit happens.
    You think 9/11 or the GFC compares to Covid?
    Most of the employees of this Country were at home for months and months getting 80% pay, paid for by the Government. It was by far the biggest event any Government has had to deal with since WW2. The fact that the tories will be handing over an economy with 4.4% unemployment and 2% inflation just 3 years after Covid is something that they should get credit for, which of course they wont.
    This is slightly disingenuous. You know, or should do, that there are serious problems in the pipeline which is one reason Sunak went now. The figures in the autumn won’t look so good and there are massive structural problems in the UK economy.

    Ref. Ukraine, had we plural (= Joe Biden with a little help from his allies) not so disastrously and precipitously withdrawn from Afghanistan there’s a strong chance Putin would have thought longer and harder about invading Ukraine.

    Biden told the world that we weren’t going to police it. It greenlit Putin. Not quite as big a foreign policy blunder as the invasion of Iraq, but not too far behind.
    Disagree. Growth was better than expected, inflation ticking down, interest rates expected to come down, and now good employment stats. That is why Rishi thought he would go to the country now.

    Not that most people care because they view the Cons as tired and the country in need of change. Doesn't change the sound-ish economic basis upon which Rishi went called the election when he did.
    And as the holiday season gets going, especially in Scotland, it’s a damn’ fool time to have an election.

    And Good Morning everyone, from cheerful (reasonably) OKC, since he and Mrs C are celebrating their 62nd wedding anniversary.
    Congratulations and only another 3 for your second card from Charles and Camilla
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited June 11
    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    If Labour want to be let off the hook for the UKs involvement in the GFC then they need to acknowledge Covid and Ukraine, no?

    The way I look at it, Labour faced 9/11 and the GFC, the Tories faced Covid and Ukraine, plus Brexit which was entirely self-inflicted. Shit happens.
    You think 9/11 or the GFC compares to Covid?
    Most of the employees of this Country were at home for months and months getting 80% pay, paid for by the Government. It was by far the biggest event any Government has had to deal with since WW2. The fact that the tories will be handing over an economy with 4.4% unemployment and 2% inflation just 3 years after Covid is something that they should get credit for, which of course they wont.
    This is slightly disingenuous. You know, or should do, that there are serious problems in the pipeline which is one reason Sunak went now. The figures in the autumn won’t look so good and there are massive structural problems in the UK economy.

    Ref. Ukraine, had we plural (= Joe Biden with a little help from his allies) not so disastrously and precipitously withdrawn from Afghanistan there’s a strong chance Putin would have thought longer and harder about invading Ukraine.

    Biden told the world that we weren’t going to police it. It greenlit Putin. Not quite as big a foreign policy blunder as the invasion of Iraq, but not too far behind.
    Disagree. Growth was better than expected, inflation ticking down, interest rates expected to come down, and now good employment stats. That is why Rishi thought he would go to the country now.

    Not that most people care because they view the Cons as tired and the country in need of change. Doesn't change the sound-ish economic basis upon which Rishi went called the election when he did.
    "Sound-ish economic" basis? The public finances are screwed for the next 4 years and to balance them requires a return to growth rates not seen for 2 decades, and/or swinging new public spending cuts and/or a sharp and sustained future rise in taxation. It's the worse economic legacy facing any incoming government since 1945.

    That's the big picture, compared to which your points of short term detail hardly matter. But they're misleading too. Inflation is not "ticking down". The CPI will jump sharply in August when the July rate is published because the June 23 energy prices in the base for comparison will be replaced by much lower July 23 energy prices. When CPI goes back to around 3% I don't see interest rates coming down any time soon either. Even a small fall would still leave people currently renewing fixed rate mortgage deals facing very big increases compared to their old rates. But anyway the spectre of Sunak following a playbook reminiscent of Truss's unfunded tax cuts would spook the markets if they thought there was the remotest chance of him winning. As for employment stats, have you noticed how much economic inactivity has jumped?

    Sunak went early when 20% behind in the polls because he knew the economic news was not getting better and going now he could fight an election promising illusory tax cuts rather than being exposed as the Emperor with no clothes when they failed to materialise in an Autumn 2024 pre-election budget.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited June 11

    Did we ever get the much ramped YouGov poll?

    Conservative Party: 45% (+11 from 4 June)
    Labour Party: 9% (-1)
    Lib Dems: 3% (-2)
    Reform UK: 4% (=)
    SNP: 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru: 1% (=)
    Green Party: 2% (=)
    None of them: 9% (+1)
    Don’t know: 25% (-7)

    The problem for the Tories is the question "Regardless of who you support, who do you think is running the worst general election campaign so far?"
    Shame for the Tories about that question. If it had been VI that would have given them a majority of 286:

    C 468, L 33, LD 6, Ref 1 (remarkably), G 2, SNP 14, PC 1... Others 107(?)
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    ToryJim said:

    Another measure of whether Starmer might be the GOAT is whether he beats Attlee's 1945 seat gain of +239 (from the previous election).

    Labour on 442 seats and Starmer's gained 240 seats; I think that's entirely possible.

    (Whether or not he is the GOAT, he appears to be the LOAT. Still, a lucky general is a good general.)

    Not really sure how much generalling Starmer is having to do. He’s basically up against the Judean People’s Front Crack Suicide Squad.

    Whilst sitting there watching your opponents immolate themselves will win you an election, and probably very handsomely. It could mean that the shine comes off relatively more quickly than at other times. In 1935 and 1950 a party that had been seriously damaged in the previous election bounced back hard. 2001 shows that’s not guaranteed but it shouldn’t be ignored as a possibility.
    Less GOAT than up against the WOAT
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546

    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)

    Presumably all of them are wasted votes though, barring Labour/Lib (whoever is the challenger)?
    Because of the redrawing of the boundaries (we are essentially in a new constituency), I have no idea. The economist seems to think it is close between Con and Lab, with Lib Dem a close third.

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/forecast

    I somehow doubt that; I think it'll be much closer. I'm currently inclined to vote Lib Dem.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    There seems to be a lot of confusion about when postal votes are first going to reach voters. Some people saying today, others 19th June.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013
    Andy_JS said:

    There seems to be a lot of confusion about when postal votes are first going to reach voters. Some people saying today, others 19th June.

    Our LA has said the 19th June
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    MattW said:
    Does he even have the capacity to pay that?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    edited June 11

    Andy_JS said:

    There seems to be a lot of confusion about when postal votes are first going to reach voters. Some people saying today, others 19th June.

    Our LA has said the 19th June
    The problem is Professor Philip Cowley, who is usually very reliable on these subjects, seems to think it's today. But a lot of amateur experts on the VoteUK forum have said he's wrong, and that it's the same in all areas, whereas he thinks it varies according to council.

    https://x.com/philipjcowley/status/1800442913882857812
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    If Labour want to be let off the hook for the UKs involvement in the GFC then they need to acknowledge Covid and Ukraine, no?

    The way I look at it, Labour faced 9/11 and the GFC, the Tories faced Covid and Ukraine, plus Brexit which was entirely self-inflicted. Shit happens.
    You think 9/11 or the GFC compares to Covid?
    Most of the employees of this Country were at home for months and months getting 80% pay, paid for by the Government. It was by far the biggest event any Government has had to deal with since WW2. The fact that the tories will be handing over an economy with 4.4% unemployment and 2% inflation just 3 years after Covid is something that they should get credit for, which of course they wont.
    This is slightly disingenuous. You know, or should do, that there are serious problems in the pipeline which is one reason Sunak went now. The figures in the autumn won’t look so good and there are massive structural problems in the UK economy.

    Ref. Ukraine, had we plural (= Joe Biden with a little help from his allies) not so disastrously and precipitously withdrawn from Afghanistan there’s a strong chance Putin would have thought longer and harder about invading Ukraine.

    Biden told the world that we weren’t going to police it. It greenlit Putin. Not quite as big a foreign policy blunder as the invasion of Iraq, but not too far behind.
    Disagree. Growth was better than expected, inflation ticking down, interest rates expected to come down, and now good employment stats. That is why Rishi thought he would go to the country now.

    Not that most people care because they view the Cons as tired and the country in need of change. Doesn't change the sound-ish economic basis upon which Rishi went called the election when he did.
    "Sound-ish economic" basis? The public finances are screwed for the next 4 years and to balance them requires a return to growth rates not seen for 2 decades, and/or swinging new public spending cuts and/or a sharp and sustained future rise in taxation. It's the worse economic legacy facing any incoming government since 1945.

    That's the big picture, compared to which your points of short term detail hardly matter. But they're misleading too. Inflation is not "ticking down". The CPI will jump sharply in August when the July rate is published because the June 23 energy prices in the base for comparison will be replaced by much lower July 23 energy prices. When CPI goes back to around 3% I don't see interest rates coming down any time soon either. Even a small fall would still leave people currently renewing fixed rate mortgage deals facing very big increases compared to their old rates. But anyway the spectre of Sunak following a playbook reminiscent of Truss's unfunded tax cuts would spook the markets if they thought there was the remotest chance of him winning. As for employment stats, have you noticed how much economic inactivity has jumped?

    Sunak went early when 20% behind in the polls because he knew the economic news was not getting better and going now he could fight and election promising illusory tax cuts rather than being exposed as the Emperor with no clothes when they failed to materialise in an Autumn 2024 pre-election budget.

    I agree but it seems labour can do it with no tax rises, no spending cuts, but lots of promises
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,859
    Lousy Telegraph subbing (and writing). The comparison is with working-age people, not workers as the headline has it.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said 65pc of older Britons now pay tax on their income, up from just 48pc since 2010.
    ...
    Meanwhile, the share of working-age people paying income tax stands at 63pc amid a jump in long-term sickness since Covid that has left 800,000 more people out of work.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/higher-share-of-pensioners-pay-income-tax-than-workers/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    edited June 11
    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Everyone makes mistakes. He did have one bottle of water with him apparently, and maybe he just expected the walk to be a fairly short one.

    (Example: I thought it was okay to take a night bus in Rome a few months ago at 1 in the morning. Turned out to be a very bad decision because I got mugged/robbed and might have been stabbed. Two people followed me off the bus in a quiet area, and had, I think, been waiting for me to get off the whole journey, provided it wasn't in a busy area. You get used to how safe night buses are in the UK with all the cameras on board, but I don't think they have them on Rome buses).
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,721

    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.

    Yeah. Email is easy, but the IPs would be a bit of hassle - easiest with different physical devices on different networks (e.g. one on VPN) or a VM with the same. You'd have to be fairly committed and disciplined* to do something that would be fairly pointless.

    There's also the posting in character that would take a fair bit of discipline. We normally spot our banned posters' new IDs (not only Leon's) fairly quickly.

    Overall, why bother?

    *which tends to rule out Leon, I think - after a few days he'd not be able to resist telling us how smart he'd been to trick everyone
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    Didn’t Starmer do a post-grad at Oxford?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    There seems to be a lot of confusion about when postal votes are first going to reach voters. Some people saying today, others 19th June.

    Our LA has said the 19th June
    The problem is Professor Philip Cowley, who is usually very reliable on these subjects, seems to think it's today. But a lot of amateur experts on the VoteUK forum have said he's wrong, and that it's the same in all areas, whereas he thinks it varies according to council.

    https://x.com/philipjcowley/status/1800442913882857812
    The last time this was discussed here someone eventually pointed to the detail in the legislation that says they cannot be sent out more than 10 (I think?) working days before polling day.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    boulay said:

    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.

    What is the ethos of the site?
    Good challenge. I'd say it's a site for chatting openly with others about political, betting and other matters. Someone arguing with themselves or creating multiple personae for the purpose of winding others up seems, to me, to be counter to the ethos of the site but that's just my opinion obvs.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013

    Lousy Telegraph subbing (and writing). The comparison is with working-age people, not workers as the headline has it.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said 65pc of older Britons now pay tax on their income, up from just 48pc since 2010.
    ...
    Meanwhile, the share of working-age people paying income tax stands at 63pc amid a jump in long-term sickness since Covid that has left 800,000 more people out of work.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/higher-share-of-pensioners-pay-income-tax-than-workers/
    Result of triple lock for pensioners
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited June 11

    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)

    Presumably all of them are wasted votes though, barring Labour/Lib (whoever is the challenger)?
    Because of the redrawing of the boundaries (we are essentially in a new constituency), I have no idea. The economist seems to think it is close between Con and Lab, with Lib Dem a close third.

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/forecast

    I somehow doubt that; I think it'll be much closer. I'm currently inclined to vote Lib Dem.
    You could try this:

    https://tactical.vote/all/

    Or this:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,903
    boulay said:

    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.

    What is the ethos of the site?
    Honesty and decency, of course.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    Port of Baltimore is open again, according to the BBC.

    Fast work. Only 11 weeks. Still think that Buttigieg for Biden would have been a very good swop at the top of the ticket.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013
    ToryJim said:
    What a ridiculous advert

    It is not just Sunak but all those round him who are utterly clueless

    Never mind, in just over three weeks they will be history (and not the one they hoped for)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
    67 year old bloke in 40c heat starts to stagger about a bit. Wanders off in the wrong direction then sits down and dies.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.

    What is the ethos of the site?
    Good challenge. I'd say it's a site for chatting openly with others about political, betting and other matters. Someone arguing with themselves or creating multiple personae for the purpose of winding others up seems, to me, to be counter to the ethos of the site but that's just my opinion obvs.
    Agreed although I don’t really have a problem if the multiple personalities add something in terms of different views which my challenge a discussion where the poster might be known for their position but want to introduce a devil’s advocate argument without the baggage of who they are and what they usually post.

    But if people want to wast their time with different personalities for shits and giggles then I suppose it’s also their choice and we can ignore or react.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,308

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    Didn’t Starmer do a post-grad at Oxford?
    Yep, he will be yet another Oxford PM. Labour are just as bad as the Tories with their Oxford obsession.

    Blair, Wilson and Atlee all Oxford. Brown wasn't but then he doesn't really count as he didn't win.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    ToryJim said:
    What a ridiculous advert

    It is not just Sunak but all those round him who are utterly clueless

    Never mind, in just over three weeks they will be history (and not the one they hoped for)
    Ridiculous to admit you might come third despite previously having had an 80 seat majority. Just looks weak.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,859
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    There seems to be a lot of confusion about when postal votes are first going to reach voters. Some people saying today, others 19th June.

    Our LA has said the 19th June
    The problem is Professor Philip Cowley, who is usually very reliable on these subjects, seems to think it's today. But a lot of amateur experts on the VoteUK forum have said he's wrong, and that it's the same in all areas, whereas he thinks it varies according to council.

    https://x.com/philipjcowley/status/1800442913882857812
    The Commons Library timetable has the 19th as the deadline for new postal vote applications (which is not quite the same thing):-

    Deadline to register to vote (by midnight) 18-June Tuesday
    Deadline for new postal vote applicants or amending existing absent voting arrangements 19-June Wednesday

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/timetable-for-the-2024-general-election/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited June 11

    Mr. Gaussian, Third Rome is only believed by those who prefer propaganda to history.

    Ms (Mr? Apologies, I forget) Kirk, that book sounds intriguing, thanks for mentioning it. I do feel very sorry for Heraclius. Manages to win a war from a terrible position, recovers all lost territory, then six minutes later Islam's born and an army of Arabs annihilates the Persians then takes most of the Eastern Roman Empire.

    I could not recommend Howard-Johnston's 2021 book more highly for those who love ancient history, the corralling of multiple incredibly obscure sources and decent writing. It is Oxford classical scholarship at its magnificent best. Yes, this long war is totally forgotten as the rules of the game were to be changed for ever, and by about 700/800 the demarcations were closer to how they are now than they were to 600 (perhaps I am being polemical here!)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    DavidL said:

    Port of Baltimore is open again, according to the BBC.

    Fast work. Only 11 weeks. Still think that Buttigieg for Biden would have been a very good swop at the top of the ticket.
    There have been some great videos done on the work; it was indeed quick. Although it should be noted that it was open for smaller (lower draught) ships after a couple of weeks.

    Now they've got to rebuild the bridge. There is loads of misinformation online about this, including claims it will take ten to twenty years to rebuild (coz Biden, obvs...). In reality, it is planned to be opened in 2028. Four years isn't bad, especially if they cannot use the approach viaducts.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,119
    ToryJim said:

    MattW said:
    Does he even have the capacity to pay that?
    According to the Mirror in March, yes.
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/inside-gary-glitters-staggering-net-32452412
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    Didn’t Starmer do a post-grad at Oxford?
    Yes Teddy Hall.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    ToryJim said:
    What a ridiculous advert

    It is not just Sunak but all those round him who are utterly clueless

    Never mind, in just over three weeks they will be history (and not the one they hoped for)
    I think the intent of the message is okay. The execution is appalling. Why highlight the potential to slip behind the Lib Dems.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    This is unsustainable.....

    In the three months to April, there were 9.43m people who were economically inactive in Britain, meaning they are neither in a job nor looking for one.

    These included a record number of people out of work due to long-term sickness, which rose 55,000 to 2.83m.

    It means the worklessness crisis has reached a scale that threatens to undermine the economy’s growth potential, according to Tony Wilson, director of the Institute for Employment Studies.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-employment-wage-interest-rates/#1718088106516
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Rishi's rating with Tory voters has gone from +28 on 25th May to -12 on 8th June according to this.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/1501695/thread
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    ToryJim said:
    Isn't the message from that to Vote Lib Dem?

    All it needs is a "can't win here" arrow, or a picture of two horses racing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013

    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
    67 year old bloke in 40c heat starts to stagger about a bit. Wanders off in the wrong direction then sits down and dies.

    My wife and I went from Adelaide to Alice Springs on the Ghan and of course we were in an air conditioned compartment throughout, but alighting off the train in Alice Springs it was in excess of 40c and the heat just took your breath away and walking to the air conditioned station was an effort

    It is a disabling heat and very sad Dr Mosley was overcome by it, but I can understand it though the coroner's report will be interesting
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    There seems to be a lot of confusion about when postal votes are first going to reach voters. Some people saying today, others 19th June.

    Our LA has said the 19th June
    The problem is Professor Philip Cowley, who is usually very reliable on these subjects, seems to think it's today. But a lot of amateur experts on the VoteUK forum have said he's wrong, and that it's the same in all areas, whereas he thinks it varies according to council.

    https://x.com/philipjcowley/status/1800442913882857812
    Sounds unlikely to me. Nominations only closed on Friday afternoon, and the deadline for applying for a postal vote isn't until 11.59pm on the 18th.

    Not sure why they'd rush to get ballots printed and posted over the weekend when they'd have to send out a second batch on the 19th anyway.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,301
    edited June 11

    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
    67 year old bloke in 40c heat starts to stagger about a bit. Wanders off in the wrong direction then sits down and dies.

    That part of the cost is completely exposed to the sun as well - no shade. The temperature you actually experience out in the blazing sun is closer to 50℃. Death is inevitable if you stay out in that for long enough.

    There’s no mystery here: he overheated, got dizzy, sat down & passed out; the sun did the rest. Nature can be a harsh mistress.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi's rating with Tory voters has gone from +28 on 25th May to -12 on 8th June according to this.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/1501695/thread

    He was as high as +28?!

    Not surprised it’s cratered he isn’t exactly giving the last remaining Tory voters much reason to bother.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,811
    edited June 11

    This is unsustainable.....

    In the three months to April, there were 9.43m people who were economically inactive in Britain, meaning they are neither in a job nor looking for one.

    These included a record number of people out of work due to long-term sickness, which rose 55,000 to 2.83m.

    It means the worklessness crisis has reached a scale that threatens to undermine the economy’s growth potential, according to Tony Wilson, director of the Institute for Employment Studies.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-employment-wage-interest-rates/#1718088106516

    National service for the 50-65 early retired.....its only a weekend after all.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    Sandpit said:

    If you could evade CGT by selling to tenants, surely the estate agents and lawyers will quickly introduce a scheme where you rent for a few months before purchase?

    On London properties CGT bills of £100k+ won't be that uncommon, so you could even let it out for six months for free and be a winner.

    Yep, there’s so many loopholes in that announcement, that were immediately obvious.

    It does appear that CCHQ were completely blindsided by the election announcement, as they had nothing ready to go. One of the key advantages of incumbency, that you know the timeline, totally lost. The other parties would all have been ready to go for a May election.
    Even if there weren't more hole than a sieve, nobody likes landlords. If you manifesto is all magic money tree tax cutting, you don't promise tax cuts to the unpopular, while no tax cut to IHT which is likely to be popular.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    ToryJim said:
    Isn't the message from that to Vote Lib Dem?

    All it needs is a "can't win here" arrow, or a picture of two horses racing.
    Yup, they don’t need to worry about incoming when they are machine gunning themselves in the scrotum.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Selebian said:

    On the subject of people on here having multiple IDs, I assume the mods can see the IP addresses and locations of posters, also their email addresses ofc.

    Does using a VPN mask the former? Does that mean a person using two IDs would need to switch between or in and out of VPNs to avoid simple detection?

    I'm just curious. Using multiple IDs coterminously should be banned if possible imo - it messes with the ethos of the site.

    Yeah. Email is easy, but the IPs would be a bit of hassle - easiest with different physical devices on different networks (e.g. one on VPN) or a VM with the same. You'd have to be fairly committed and disciplined* to do something that would be fairly pointless.

    There's also the posting in character that would take a fair bit of discipline. We normally spot our banned posters' new IDs (not only Leon's) fairly quickly.

    Overall, why bother?

    *which tends to rule out Leon, I think - after a few days he'd not be able to resist telling us how smart he'd been to trick everyone
    What with dynamic allocation of isps, and everyone being on someone else's WiFi half the time, I think id by isp is ancient history. I am always on a VPN these days because Google puts one in my phone so I probably look like I am trying to hide something when I am not.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,859

    Lousy Telegraph subbing (and writing). The comparison is with working-age people, not workers as the headline has it.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) said 65pc of older Britons now pay tax on their income, up from just 48pc since 2010.
    ...
    Meanwhile, the share of working-age people paying income tax stands at 63pc amid a jump in long-term sickness since Covid that has left 800,000 more people out of work.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/higher-share-of-pensioners-pay-income-tax-than-workers/
    Result of triple lock for pensioners
    No, it is because there is an awful lot of disguised unemployment amongst working age people.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited June 11

    ToryJim said:
    What a ridiculous advert

    It is not just Sunak but all those round him who are utterly clueless

    Never mind, in just over three weeks they will be history (and not the one they hoped for)
    Here's another ad with porky pies:

    WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE 2010?

    - BOAT CROSSINGS DOWN BY 36%
    - SPENDING ON OUR ARMED FORCES UP TO 2.5% OF GDP

    https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1800435232648446322
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    This is unsustainable.....

    In the three months to April, there were 9.43m people who were economically inactive in Britain, meaning they are neither in a job nor looking for one.

    These included a record number of people out of work due to long-term sickness, which rose 55,000 to 2.83m.

    It means the worklessness crisis has reached a scale that threatens to undermine the economy’s growth potential, according to Tony Wilson, director of the Institute for Employment Studies.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-employment-wage-interest-rates/#1718088106516

    The official unemployment rate is just 4.4%.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2881jmwjlmo
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    sbjme19 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    Didn’t Starmer do a post-grad at Oxford?
    Yes Teddy Hall.
    Doing so well as to get a 1st class undergraduate degree at a redbrick university (in the days when very few got a 1st class honours) and on the strength of that being accepted to do a post grad at Oxford smacks of merit and achievement not privilege
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    Rishi's rating with Tory voters has gone from +28 on 25th May to -12 on 8th June according to this.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/post/1501695/thread

    I think they are referring to this
    https://x.com/RestIsPolitics/status/1800455332352630986?s=19
    A twelve point hit (bad enough) but not negative territory quite!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 11

    This is unsustainable.....

    In the three months to April, there were 9.43m people who were economically inactive in Britain, meaning they are neither in a job nor looking for one.

    These included a record number of people out of work due to long-term sickness, which rose 55,000 to 2.83m.

    It means the worklessness crisis has reached a scale that threatens to undermine the economy’s growth potential, according to Tony Wilson, director of the Institute for Employment Studies.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-employment-wage-interest-rates/#1718088106516

    National service for the 50-65 early retired.....its only a weekend after all.....
    Complete early retirement is terrible for the individual and the country. I have long thought the government needs to nudge towards having people gradually moving towards retirement where possible, 5 days a week to 4 days to 3 days, rather than Bob packing in on a Friday and never working again for 30+ years. It is better for the individual and also better for the country as organisations don't lose that knowledge and experience overnight.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)

    Presumably all of them are wasted votes though, barring Labour/Lib (whoever is the challenger)?
    Because of the redrawing of the boundaries (we are essentially in a new constituency), I have no idea. The economist seems to think it is close between Con and Lab, with Lib Dem a close third.

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/forecast

    I somehow doubt that; I think it'll be much closer. I'm currently inclined to vote Lib Dem.
    You could try this:

    https://tactical.vote/all/

    Or this:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
    Bonkersly the EC ordered seats list only numbers down to 548 instead of 650-the NI seats. This is because they give the same number to equally placed seats, but don't allow for the duplication. This is confusing. Having said that, the list is very useful.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I see "Tory Culture wars" are in the news (JK Rowling & Joanna Cherry Tory - huge if true - ed.)

    A handy translation guide:

    Culture War = I don't care
    Moral panic = Calm down dear
    Toxic debate = Silly women getting rape threats
    All sides = I'm scared of trans activists
    Take the heat out = Calm down dear
    Live and let live = Roll over to gender borg demands
    Exhausting = I don't care


    https://x.com/Jebadoo2/status/1800437709523021891
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    Didn’t Starmer do a post-grad at Oxford?
    True. But there's none of that 'born to rule' nonsense - Elite School to Oxbridge to Politics.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,013

    ToryJim said:
    What a ridiculous advert

    It is not just Sunak but all those round him who are utterly clueless

    Never mind, in just over three weeks they will be history (and not the one they hoped for)
    Here's another ad with porky pies:

    WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE 2010?

    - BOAT CROSSINGS DOWN BY 36%
    - SPENDING ON OUR ARMED FORCES UP TO 2.5% OF GDP

    https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1800435232648446322
    I simply give up

    There were no boat crossings until fairly recently

    2.5% spending on Armed Forces is by 2030
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    edited June 11

    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
    67 year old bloke in 40c heat starts to stagger about a bit. Wanders off in the wrong direction then sits down and dies.

    My wife and I went from Adelaide to Alice Springs on the Ghan and of course we were in an air conditioned compartment throughout, but alighting off the train in Alice Springs it was in excess of 40c and the heat just took your breath away and walking to the air conditioned station was an effort

    It is a disabling heat and very sad Dr Mosley was overcome by it, but I can understand it though the coroner's report will be interesting
    Like a lot of people probably, I can remember 19th July 2022 when it almost hit 40 degrees here. It was exhausting just to walk around for a few minutes in that heat.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/18/uk-weather-heatwave-boris-johnson-checked-out-airport-runways-closed
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    Incidentally, whilst on the topic of bridges: the Russians have started using the Kerch rail bridge for heavy freight traffic once more. But there is not believed to have been much work done to it. Perhaps this is because they do not have enough ferries left?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    edited June 11
    sbjme19 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    Malmesbury or FU? No, they are serious serious guys. But, yes, spot on viz Leon. Serial monogamist. As for you, ok I'm on the lookout now then. It's my speciality so I'll soon bust you.

    But anyway, enough of the fluff, there's an election on and what an election it is shaping up to be. Is SKS, this relatable man from an ordinary background, no public school, no Oxbridge, is this decent, clever, diligent, non-showy son of a toolmaker really about to win the biggest landslide victory in British electoral history? He just might, you know.
    Didn’t Starmer do a post-grad at Oxford?
    Yes Teddy Hall.
    Who is/was Teddy Hall? Does he have a brother called Kelvin or Albert?

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,282
    Andy_JS said:

    ToryJim said:
    What a ridiculous advert

    It is not just Sunak but all those round him who are utterly clueless

    Never mind, in just over three weeks they will be history (and not the one they hoped for)
    Ridiculous to admit you might come third despite previously having had an 80 seat majority. Just looks weak.
    The advert for a strimmer that my targeted ads inserts below the line is rather apt.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,240
    Phil said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
    67 year old bloke in 40c heat starts to stagger about a bit. Wanders off in the wrong direction then sits down and dies.

    That part of the cost is completely exposed to the sun as well - no shade. The temperature you actually experience out in the blazing sun is closer to 50℃. Death is inevitable if you stay out in that for long enough.

    There’s no mystery here: he overheated, got dizzy, sat down & passed out; the sun did the rest. Nature can be a harsh mistress.
    The issue is heat stroke, not dehydration. Water would only have made a difference if he tipped a lot of it over his head.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    This is unsustainable.....

    In the three months to April, there were 9.43m people who were economically inactive in Britain, meaning they are neither in a job nor looking for one.

    These included a record number of people out of work due to long-term sickness, which rose 55,000 to 2.83m.

    It means the worklessness crisis has reached a scale that threatens to undermine the economy’s growth potential, according to Tony Wilson, director of the Institute for Employment Studies.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/06/11/ftse-100-markets-latest-news-employment-wage-interest-rates/#1718088106516

    I'd be interested to see a visa status breakdown of that.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 831
    algarkirk said:

    I see myself as slightly left-of-centre on social issues (or perhaps centrist...), and right-of-centre economically.

    That should be perfect Conservative-voting territory. Sadly, there is absolutely nothing that could convince me to vote Conservative this year.

    Fortunately there are seven candidates standing in my constituency this time; much better than three in 2019 (due to the Lib Dem/Green stitch-up...)

    Incidentally, one of our candidates is one of the sixteen "Party of Women" candidates standing at this GE. So that should really be six options... ;)

    Presumably all of them are wasted votes though, barring Labour/Lib (whoever is the challenger)?
    Because of the redrawing of the boundaries (we are essentially in a new constituency), I have no idea. The economist seems to think it is close between Con and Lab, with Lib Dem a close third.

    https://www.economist.com/interactive/uk-general-election/forecast

    I somehow doubt that; I think it'll be much closer. I'm currently inclined to vote Lib Dem.
    You could try this:

    https://tactical.vote/all/

    Or this:

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/orderedseats.html
    Bonkersly the EC ordered seats list only numbers down to 548 instead of 650-the NI seats. This is because they give the same number to equally placed seats, but don't allow for the duplication. This is confusing. Having said that, the list is very useful.
    Eek, that discredits everything else on that site as far as I'm concerned.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,982
    The Tory campaign right now effectively boils down to:

    "Labour have absolutely no policies - and we've costed all 27 of them."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 11
    Staines stirring the pot with this story again,

    https://order-order.com/2024/06/11/telegraph-starmers-wife-being-kept-off-campaign-trail/

    If it has an "October surprise", not sure it will make any difference.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 35% (+8)
    SNP: 34% (-3)
    CON: 14% (-4)
    LDM: 8% (=)
    RFM: 5% (New)
    GRN: 4% (=)

    Via @OpiniumResearch, 5-10 Jun.
    Changes w/ 5-14 Sep 2023 (!).

    Suspect that’s bad news for remaining Tories.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:
    Because she is not standing for election so we have no need to know anything about her? I truly hate the tendency to have partners of politicians somehow involved.
    Did you read it? That’s the whole point of the article: explaining her reasoning for not being involved.
    Paywalled, so no, and also no interest in her at all. If that's why then good on her.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    I offer a sincere apology to @Heathener for saying she was Leon. I did genuinely believe you were but I accept I was wrong. My apologies to you.

    Are you hanging up your boots as Leonfinder General?
    He doesn't have all these "sock puppets", it's a PB urban myth. One he does have is tridentsubcommander - who once in a blue moon will pop up and post "test".

    Most amusing.
    For some reason I'd always assumed that was Malmesbury or maybe FrancisUrquhart, seems too subtle to Leon, he'd surely post "LAUNCH!" or "BRACE!" :lol:

    I'm also of the view that Leon generally only has one ID at a time - there have been brief periods when a couple alternate or are more or less concurrent, I believe, particularly when he's going through a rebirth.

    I, on the other hand, have lots :wink:
    I'm Selebian. Or Leon.
    No, I'm Spartacus
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    Phil said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Anyone else think the Micheal Moseley story doesn't make any sense?
    As someone who studied medicine why would he not take loads of water with him?

    Knowledge ≠ common sense
    67 year old bloke in 40c heat starts to stagger about a bit. Wanders off in the wrong direction then sits down and dies.

    That part of the cost is completely exposed to the sun as well - no shade. The temperature you actually experience out in the blazing sun is closer to 50℃. Death is inevitable if you stay out in that for long enough.

    There’s no mystery here: he overheated, got dizzy, sat down & passed out; the sun did the rest. Nature can be a harsh mistress.
    The issue is heat stroke, not dehydration. Water would only have made a difference if he tipped a lot of it over his head.
    He was only 50 metres from the sea according to this.

    https://news.sky.com/story/dr-michael-mosley-after-a-painstaking-four-day-search-tv-doctors-body-was-found-just-metres-from-safety-at-beach-resort-13150338
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100
    Read that rishi is going full truss in the cons manifesto and promising hige tax cuts !!

    surely he should have learned after what happened last time ??
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 11
    bobbob said:

    Read that rishi is going full truss in the cons manifesto and promising hige tax cuts !!

    surely he should have learned after what happened last time ??

    The Tories are literally copying the Corbyn campaign of 2019, keep throwing a random policy a day, many of which are bonkers, and to hell with if they are actually practical or affordable.

    I have a vision of an Olly out of The Thick of It, policy Olly, we need a policy for the Telegraph tomorrow, come on, hurry up, what have you got....wooden toys.
This discussion has been closed.