If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
Especially since we'll over half are women and children
Barristers having to treat Lesley Sewell of the PO as though she is a child, such is her fragility and uselessness.
Lesley Sewell former Chief Information Officer of the PO, that is.
Being a senior IT person does not prepare you for this. I am surprised, given it is televised and has been the subject of such scrutiny in recent months, more people have not reacted as she did.
Maybe but she was the head of IT. Not just some IT bod stuck in the back in a black t-shirt. You would expect her to be all over her department and what was going on. Which should in turn have provided cover and competence for the questions being asked.
Although I suppose the whole inquiry has been characterised by PO heads of this and that who knew nothing that was happening in their departments.
She seems to have sort-of known. But comes across as too feeble to make an issue of it.
Sewell said: “When I read this email I couldn’t understand it.”
She said she also disagreed with the Post Office’s strategy to refer to software bugs as “exceptions” or “anomalies” in reports about the Horizon system, but went along with it because it was a direction.
“I just thought it was mad,” said Sewell. “I really didn’t understand the concern of using the word ‘bug’ or ‘fault’ because that’s what they were.”
She agreed it appears management wanted to minimise the seriousness of bugs through the use of language. “They were faults and I wouldn’t class them as anomalies, but it changed how we had to communicate about bugs,” said Sewell.
During the hearing, it emerged she felt on the outside of the organisation towards the end of her time there, and was tearful when asked about a period she described as “very hard” for her...
The PO IT department seems to have been quite small: .. On her arrival, she said the Post Office IT team was very small and reliant on Royal Mail Group IT; there was no IT risk register; and there were concerns, in the legal team, over the Horizon contract with Fujitsu, which had not been put out for tender..
In my role I work for a lot of good people who've worked for horrible organisations, and who have just been too weak to do anything about the horribleness. She strikes me as one of those. She's not heroic whistleblower material, and clearly didn't feel able to stand up to management, but, equally, she doesn't deserve automatic opprobrium just because she worked at the malignant PO for 5 years.
She worked at Northern Rock for 25 years until 2010. She probably thought taking the PO job would enhance her career after an organisation she had clearly been loyal to hit the skids spectacularly - again through no fault of her own.
"Through no fault of her own" is doing WAY WAY WAY toooooooo much heavy lifting here.
You’re holding her responsible for the downfall of Northern Rock? Huge if true.
No. What I'm doubting, is your contention she was faultless with regard to EITHER of the quasi-criminal enterprises she's been employed by for the most of her career as an (alleged) IT expert.
BTW (also FYI) here is an interesting sample of Leslie Sewell's "leadership" at as (alleged) PO CIO:
A: Visionary, inclusive, pacesetting, clear on outcomes and goals, coaching, decisive and people focused.
Q: What key technologies do you consider enable transformation?
A: In the context of Post Office our Digital platform will be a key enabler and at the heart of our strategy. Building it in such a way that we utilise all aspects of open, cloud and COTs products to give us flexibility is key. In addition, fixing the infrastructure around our end user capability.
SSI - "In addition"!
Ok, “no fault” was perhaps over egging it. But when she started at Northern Rock it was a solid, staid, worthy (dare I say boring) provincial building society. The later, post-demutualisation, decisions that led to its demise have been well documented and, I can confidently assert, had nothing to do with the IT department.
As for the PO, the simple chronology mostly clears her. She joined in 2010, more than a decade after Horizon was installed, and years into the cavalcade of bent prosecutions that resulted therefrom. From bitter experience that there is not an organisation in this jurisdiction that willingly allows IT anywhere near legal decision making.
She should have stood up to management when they started doing shit she didn’t agree with. But that takes guts. No one knows what they would have done in that situation.
Yes at the end of the day the buck for failures in an organisation lies with the CEO, Chairman and Board not the Head of IT, it was not her decision to install Horizon as you say. At most she could have raised more of the technical problems with it since she started but that is it
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
We now have details of the much trailed new big name Labour backer, an ex Bullingdon Club son of a hereditary peer and Boots MD.
'Sir Keir Starmer has been endorsed by an old Etonian who was a member of the Bullingdon Club alongside Lord Cameron and Boris Johnson.
Sebastian James, the managing director of Boots UK, was unveiled by Labour as one of the latest business figures to back the party during a rally event on Thursday.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
What I find strange, perhaps "bad", is that researching and coming up with possible reasons why X,Y or Z might happen in a GE, on a site that is supposedly about politics, betting, and predicting generally, should be spoken of in such a derogatory way by people like you
I am not attempting to boost it to a matter of importance; I am not campaigning for anyone or speaking about it anywhere but on here. It obviously bugs you, as you keep butting in to make snidey comments, but that's by the by
We now have details of the much trailed new big name Labour backer, an ex Bullingdon Club son of a hereditary peer and Boots MD.
'Sir Keir Starmer has been endorsed by an old Etonian who was a member of the Bullingdon Club alongside Lord Cameron and Boris Johnson.
Sebastian James, the managing director of Boots UK, was unveiled by Labour as one of the latest business figures to back the party during a rally event on Thursday.
We now have details of the much trailed new big name Labour backer, an ex Bullingdon Club son of a hereditary peer and Boots MD.
'Sir Keir Starmer has been endorsed by an old Etonian who was a member of the Bullingdon Club alongside Lord Cameron and Boris Johnson.
Sebastian James, the managing director of Boots UK, was unveiled by Labour as one of the latest business figures to back the party during a rally event on Thursday.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
They could try calling a halt. Have you ever been to the area and do you know anything about it or are you just following a party line?
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
Barristers having to treat Lesley Sewell of the PO as though she is a child, such is her fragility and uselessness.
Lesley Sewell former Chief Information Officer of the PO, that is.
Being a senior IT person does not prepare you for this. I am surprised, given it is televised and has been the subject of such scrutiny in recent months, more people have not reacted as she did.
The big secret of top people is that for every genuinely impressive figure there are a dozen useless chancers bungling their way through life.
Inquiries can be a rare chance to demonstrate the ordinariness of so many top people, and puncture the idea they deserve the remunerations they often get, as they scramble to show they are incompetent not malicious.
Of course, know the right people and you can usually just move on to a directorship somewhere else. Companies and organisations just look at the last job you has, and apparently don't care how you actually did.
"Top person"?. She was head of IT.
Further, and I don't want to stereotype here but as an employment lawyer I have not generally had Heads of IT at the top of my wish list as Tribunal witnesses, however good they are at fixing my PC.
Top person is a relative term, especially depending on the hierarchy and scale of a business.
It absolute could cover a role such as Head of IT, if in an organisation where complex software is essential to things, or where it is central to the matter being Inquired about as here.
The Head of IT is the kind of job where, for endless years, people who actually know about IT are told they can’t have the job.
Because it is really a political job which requires a Proper Generalist who won’t Get Bogged Down In Pointless Detail.
I've said this before, but IMV the most important characteristics in a leader is a finely-honed BS detector. They cannot know all the details of what is going on underneath them; therefore it's important that they get the unvarnished truth.
One of the best bosses I've ever worked for knew f-all about tech; but he ran a successful-ish tech company. Because he trusted people. You never lied to him, as if you did and he found out, you were out. No argument. No discussion, Out. As such, he had people around him who knew their business, and he could trust to tell him the truth. they were not yes-men.
You could tell him the project was f***ed, and he would listen calmly and ask what could be done (it was best to tell him it was f***ed and have at least one potential way forwards...). But if you said things were fine when you knew they were not... he would go ballistic when he found out.
I liked him.
I always tell people "I love bad news! because if I know about it, I can do something about fixing it."
I used to say in a meeting “If we’re all agreeing then some of us are redundant and it’s not me.”
In Indonesia getting info out of Javanese was particularly tough. “Yes” either meant “Yes” or “You are so wrong I’m not going to be the one to break it to you”.
So I’d try to have meeting with Batak (northern Sumatra, Christian - start fight in an empty room) there - so “everyone agree?” And off they’d go - the Javanese then had to then join in or otherwise they’d loose face, and if you were lucky, you’d get to the truth.
I once heard an expat ask a Javanese manager “Can you do it?” “It will be difficult” “But you can get it done?” “It will be very very difficult” “Ok then, do it”. I took him aside to explain that his subordinate was saying “No”.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
We now have details of the much trailed new big name Labour backer, an ex Bullingdon Club son of a hereditary peer and Boots MD.
'Sir Keir Starmer has been endorsed by an old Etonian who was a member of the Bullingdon Club alongside Lord Cameron and Boris Johnson.
Sebastian James, the managing director of Boots UK, was unveiled by Labour as one of the latest business figures to back the party during a rally event on Thursday.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
They could try calling a halt. Have you ever been to the area and do you know anything about it or are you just following a party line?
And yet you know so much about Hartlepool that you can pontificate about their thoughts and motives?
Do you only comment on things you have direct experience with? Like, for example, the world outside advertsising or privileged British/Euro society?
Do you not think, just maybe, that instead of a brutal murderous rape cruise the Palestinians would have been better off getting Netflix to follow young Palestinians in a peace moment bonding with Israeli kids at music festivals?
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
This idea that PB is a nest of SKS aficionados is utterly insane. BJO has this affliction too.
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1791146867251614066?s=19 I really hate these meaningless soundbites. 'Starmer insists he is trustworthy' yes, so do confidence tricksters. It's completely banal. Sunak can insist he's competent, Starmer that he's trustworthy, Davey that he's a real politician, Berry that she's all in for the duration in Brighton but it's all bunk. We get to decide that.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
No you are responding to my punching you in the face by shooting my whole extended family and carpet bombing the whole population of Chesterfield whilst turning off water and stopping food from entering Derbyshire just in case you missed anyone. You will especially target women and children because that is how bad Genocide supporters are. You caught me by surprise I expected to be punished but couldn't have forseen you were a genocidal maniac.
BTW you know you are one of the last few brainwashed don't you. Only 10% are in your category 58% and rising in mine (and that was a month ago will have risen further still now
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
There’s not a lot good to be said about either side, but I do wonder whether the IDF is encouraging the next generation of Hamas fighters. I can imagine a Palestinian of my age encouraging his grandsons to revenge my miserable death, and the destruction of the business I’d built.
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
She is now (or was) certain it will be in July and cannot possibly be any other month. I dare say her serial certainty will continue all bloody year.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
This idea that PB is a nest of SKS aficionados is utterly insane. BJO has this affliction too.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
No you are responding to my punching you in the face by shooting my whole extended family and carpet bombing the whole population of Chesterfield whilst turning off water and stopping food from entering Derbyshire just in case you missed anyone. You will especially target women and children because that is how bad Genocide supporters are. You caught me by surprise I expected to be punished but couldn't have forseen you were a genocidal maniac.
BTW you know you are one of the last few brainwashed don't you. Only 10% are in your category 58% and rising in mine (and that was a month ago will have risen further still now
I’m looking forward to being the 1/10 who didn’t want to support lunatics who hate Jews, gays, people who don’t follow an ideology. The funniest thing is that under the regime of those you support you would probably be a second class citizen at best or up against a wall at worst. You are supposedly a left wing, supporting everyone, minorities, the works but you support a regime that fucking hates all you stand for. Freedom for women, minorities, sexuality. You cannot see that the world you want is made worse by these fuckers and until everyone learns that they are not acting in your best interests they will be there terrifying you into electing them. As a left winger stand up and demand Hamas and all their ilk fuck off. Otherwise you are just a useful idiot.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
I'd imagine it would smell like it came from a vegetarian who eats dead animals
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
There’s not a lot good to be said about either side, but I do wonder whether the IDF is encouraging the next generation of Hamas fighters. I can imagine a Palestinian of my age encouraging his grandsons to revenge my miserable death, and the destruction of the business I’d built.
Excellent post as usual. The knee jerk reactors have little idea. There's serious concern at the moment about civil disobedience in Israel itself. If their lauded army are killing their own unarmed soldiers and hostages it does look careless. But more importantly if that's how indiscriminate they are with their own side and charity workers how careful will they be with Palestinians who they see as sub human?
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
She is now (or was) certain it will be in July and cannot possibly be any other month. I dare say her serial certainty will continue all bloody year.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
The privileged trump of the lawyer, smelling, miraculously, of faux earnestness with warning notes of caulked wine, lingering and, ultimately, foul.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
No you are responding to my punching you in the face by shooting my whole extended family and carpet bombing the whole population of Chesterfield whilst turning off water and stopping food from entering Derbyshire just in case you missed anyone. You will especially target women and children because that is how bad Genocide supporters are. You caught me by surprise I expected to be punished but couldn't have forseen you were a genocidal maniac.
BTW you know you are one of the last few brainwashed don't you. Only 10% are in your category 58% and rising in mine (and that was a month ago will have risen further still now
I’m looking forward to being the 1/10 who didn’t want to support lunatics who hate Jews, gays, people who don’t follow an ideology. The funniest thing is that under the regime of those you support you would probably be a second class citizen at best or up against a wall at worst. You are supposedly a left wing, supporting everyone, minorities, the works but you support a regime that fucking hates all you stand for. Freedom for women, minorities, sexuality. You cannot see that the world you want is made worse by these fuckers and until everyone learns that they are not acting in your best interests they will be there terrifying you into electing them. As a left winger stand up and demand Hamas and all their ilk fuck off. Otherwise you are just a useful idiot.
How many of these dead women and children are "these fucker" or are all Muslims categorised by you in that manner. Islamophbia I think is the name for that.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
"I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy"
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
This idea that PB is a nest of SKS aficionados is utterly insane. BJO has this affliction too.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
The privileged trump of the lawyer, smelling, miraculously, of faux earnestness with warning notes of caulked wine, lingering and, ultimately, foul.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
This idea that PB is a nest of SKS aficionados is utterly insane. BJO has this affliction too.
I can attest that I am not fond of SKS
Nor am I; parachuted into the leadership far too early. We really have a generation of political lightweights at the top of all our political parties. Except possibly Plaid Cymru! Unless Swinney has learned from last time.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
The privileged trump of the lawyer, smelling, miraculously, of faux earnestness with warning notes of caulked wine, lingering and, ultimately, foul.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He needs the always-applicable Reagan comeback line.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister she became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
This idea that PB is a nest of SKS aficionados is utterly insane. BJO has this affliction too.
I can attest that I am not fond of SKS
I also think they could have done better.
Not from the three on offer but from the wider pool, yes
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
No you are responding to my punching you in the face by shooting my whole extended family and carpet bombing the whole population of Chesterfield whilst turning off water and stopping food from entering Derbyshire just in case you missed anyone. You will especially target women and children because that is how bad Genocide supporters are. You caught me by surprise I expected to be punished but couldn't have forseen you were a genocidal maniac.
BTW you know you are one of the last few brainwashed don't you. Only 10% are in your category 58% and rising in mine (and that was a month ago will have risen further still now
I’m looking forward to being the 1/10 who didn’t want to support lunatics who hate Jews, gays, people who don’t follow an ideology. The funniest thing is that under the regime of those you support you would probably be a second class citizen at best or up against a wall at worst. You are supposedly a left wing, supporting everyone, minorities, the works but you support a regime that fucking hates all you stand for. Freedom for women, minorities, sexuality. You cannot see that the world you want is made worse by these fuckers and until everyone learns that they are not acting in your best interests they will be there terrifying you into electing them. As a left winger stand up and demand Hamas and all their ilk fuck off. Otherwise you are just a useful idiot.
How many of these dead women and children are "these fucker" or are all Muslims categorised by you in that manner. Islamophbia I think is the name for that.
It’s not remotely “islamaphobia” - Islam is a fine religion but as flawed as Christianity or any other religion. Hamas isn’t about Islam in its Koranic sense - it’s about control and a bunch of small dicked men who cannot handle women being free, men loving men, and power and money. Get me a secular gov in Gaza and I will die in a ditch against Israel suppressing it but you absolutely know that Hamas hate everything you stand for.
Seriously, imagine if Hamas take over Sheffield and your wife, daughter, have to obey bullshit ancient religious nonsense. Imagine you cannot go down the pub if you feel like it. You and I are weirdly probably aligned on freedoms and yet you support people who want to smash others freedoms.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
There’s not a lot good to be said about either side, but I do wonder whether the IDF is encouraging the next generation of Hamas fighters. I can imagine a Palestinian of my age encouraging his grandsons to revenge my miserable death, and the destruction of the business I’d built.
Excellent post as usual. The knee jerk reactors have little idea. There's serious concern at the moment about civil disobedience in Israel itself. If their lauded army are killing their own unarmed soldiers and hostages it does look careless. But more importantly if that's how indiscriminate they are with their own side and charity workers how careful will they be with Palestinians who they see as sub human?
Thank you! I also wonder how the average IDF conscript feels about his officers.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
(quoting messed up - the above bit is from isam) ...
You're pinning your hopes to a single Starmer stumble, whilst ignoring the two more recent similar examples from Sunak - but it's Sunak's "November election" one that has got traction in the media.
All three were of the type that fills most of us who've ever done any form of public speaking with dread. It takes someone special to rise above that and not be phased by it at all - a Blair, or a Boris, perhaps.
Neither Starmer nor Sunak are remotely in the same league, but that's okay - that type of character has worn out their welcome for now. And looking on the bright side, neither is likely to ever produce a clanger on the level of "this is not a time for sound bites; I feel the hand of history on our shoulder"!
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
The privileged trump of the lawyer, smelling, miraculously, of faux earnestness with warning notes of caulked wine, lingering and, ultimately, foul.
Corked wine.
Yes. I'm not sure why I went with a different word
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Thatcher didn't have to go on tv and sell herself in debates etc as Sir Keir has to.
He seems ok when he is giving the inquisition, as no doubt he was when a barrister, but when he is under questioning, or trying to be funny, he seems to freeze or crumble.
I don't really get why this is seen as some kind of personal attack on him - I'm not calling him names, or belittling him as many others on here do politicians they dislike, I don't say he will be a bad PM should he become one. I just think the public will find him a bit of a stiff during the campaign, which may afffect the size of majority/whether there is one at all.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister she became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Yup. I present for a living. I reckon the proportion of events where I mangle a word is approximately 1 in 1.
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
There’s not a lot good to be said about either side, but I do wonder whether the IDF is encouraging the next generation of Hamas fighters. I can imagine a Palestinian of my age encouraging his grandsons to revenge my miserable death, and the destruction of the business I’d built.
There was a stat from the former head of MI6 said that over half of Hamas fighters are orphans.
I think unquestionably Israel has more enemies and fewer/less committed allies than just after the terrible terrorist attack.
Personally am keeping ‘em crossed for July, but that’s a hope not a prediction. I don’t know when it will be, but my actual prediction is that the longer he waits the more the public will see him as either frit or a ditherer.
He wants the wedge issue of immigration to be hot so he won't go until he's 100% he can get flights off before or during the campaign. As soon as practicable after that seems likely.
Now, I'm not in the UK. But are there really millions of potential Conservative voters who are desperate to return to the fold just so long as a couple of flights have left for Rwanda?
My gut - and I realize I'm in California - is that voters have now reached that stage where they want a change. Sunak isn't right wing enough to stop defections to Reform. And he isn't centrist enough to avoid losing votes to the LibDems and Labour. He's also screwed by the fact that the Left is likely to vote highly tactically, while the Right will very definitely not.
There's no bogeyman, either. Who - other than @bigjohnowls and @isam - is going to march to the polling station and vote Conservative out of fear of Starmer? (And with Johnson gone, I think bjo will be going green.)
And I don't see an easy way out. There's no popular MP in the wings who can galvanize support and bring the disparate factions together.
It's time for the Conservative Party to accept that the electorate is going to give them a drubbing.
And, if it's any consolation, the problems with the UK economy will still be there in five years time. So you never know, the Conservatives may get another chance sooner rather than later.
I have decided to cast my first ever vote for the Conservatives in this General Election.
The UK has not had a proper Conservative government for too long, and needs one. That certainly won’t be delivered by Labour.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
Anyone attacking the character of Starmer, yet thinking the sun shines out of Johnsons fundament, has gone through the looking glass.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister she became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Obsessing about ANYONE who mangles words, unless it's every other syllable or suchlike, is total BS, IMHO.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
You're pinning your hopes to a single Starmer stumble, whilst ignoring the two more recent similar examples from Sunak - but it's Sunak's "November election" one that has got traction in the media.
All three were of the type that fills most of us who've ever done any form of public speaking with dread. It takes someone special to rise above that and not be phased by it at all - a Blair, or a Boris, perhaps.
Neither Starmer nor Sunak are remotely in the same league, but that's okay - that type of character has worn out their welcome for now. And looking on the bright side, neither is likely to ever produce a clanger on the level of "this is not a time for sound bites; I feel the hand of history on our shoulder"!
I am not pinning my hopes on a single Starmer stumble, I just think he will come over poorly generally in the campaign
Sunak didn't stumble today, he was misheard as the audience clapped him!
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Thatcher didn't have to go on tv and sell herself in debates etc as Sir Keir has to.
He seems ok when he is giving the inquisition, as no doubt he was when a barrister, but when he is under questioning, or trying to be funny, he seems to freeze or crumble.
I don't really get why this is seen as some kind of personal attack on him - I'm not calling him names, or belittling him as many others on here do politicians they dislike, I don't say he will be a bad PM should he become one. I just think the public will find him a bit of a stiff during the campaign, which may afffect the size of majority/whether there is one at all.
It's because it's such a nasty slur in its original context. It's like a school bully sneering at someone because he has a pimple. And the conduct of the chief bully and his worshippers was pure playground. You going all over sympathetici and recommending cotton wool and Clearasil doesn't change that.
It's like lanyards. One wonders what on earth the Conservative Government thinks it is on earth for if it is spending its time focussing on such issues.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
"I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy"
Well that bit's right
The biggest U turn in British political history was Boris Johnson's conversion from Europhile to rampant Brexiteer at the very moment he pulled one or other letter from his pocket.
I would add in that instance Johnson U-turned in order to become Prime Minister irrespective of whatever the cost to the nation. He put personal ambition before party or nation.
Personally am keeping ‘em crossed for July, but that’s a hope not a prediction. I don’t know when it will be, but my actual prediction is that the longer he waits the more the public will see him as either frit or a ditherer.
He wants the wedge issue of immigration to be hot so he won't go until he's 100% he can get flights off before or during the campaign. As soon as practicable after that seems likely.
Now, I'm not in the UK. But are there really millions of potential Conservative voters who are desperate to return to the fold just so long as a couple of flights have left for Rwanda?
My gut - and I realize I'm in California - is that voters have now reached that stage where they want a change. Sunak isn't right wing enough to stop defections to Reform. And he isn't centrist enough to avoid losing votes to the LibDems and Labour. He's also screwed by the fact that the Left is likely to vote highly tactically, while the Right will very definitely not.
There's no bogeyman, either. Who - other than @bigjohnowls and @isam - is going to march to the polling station and vote Conservative out of fear of Starmer? (And with Johnson gone, I think bjo will be going green.)
And I don't see an easy way out. There's no popular MP in the wings who can galvanize support and bring the disparate factions together.
It's time for the Conservative Party to accept that the electorate is going to give them a drubbing.
And, if it's any consolation, the problems with the UK economy will still be there in five years time. So you never know, the Conservatives may get another chance sooner rather than later.
I have decided to cast my first ever vote for the Conservatives in this General Election.
The UK has not had a proper Conservative government for too long, and needs one. That certainly won’t be delivered by Labour.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Thatcher didn't have to go on tv and sell herself in debates etc as Sir Keir has to.
He seems ok when he is giving the inquisition, as no doubt he was when a barrister, but when he is under questioning, or trying to be funny, he seems to freeze or crumble.
I don't really get why this is seen as some kind of personal attack on him - I'm not calling him names, or belittling him as many others on here do politicians they dislike, I don't say he will be a bad PM should he become one. I just think the public will find him a bit of a stiff during the campaign, which may afffect the size of majority/whether there is one at all.
It's because it's such a nasty slur in its original context. It's like a school bully sneering at someone because he has a pimple. And the conduct of the chief bully and his worshippers was pure playground. You going all over sympathetici and recommending cotton wool and Clearasil doesn't change that.
It's like lanyards. One wonders what on earth the Conservative Government thinks it is on earth for if it is spending its time focussing on such issues.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
"I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy"
Well that bit's right
The biggest U turn in British political history was Boris Johnson's conversion from Europhile to rampant Brexiteer at the very moment he pulled one or other letter from his pocket.
I would add in that instance Johnson U-turned in order to become Prime Minister irrespective of whatever the cost to the nation. He put personal ambition before party or nation.
Who was that again? Boris Johnson.
That's called pragmatism nowadays... you're so 2010s!
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
She is now (or was) certain it will be in July and cannot possibly be any other month. I dare say her serial certainty will continue all bloody year.
It won’t be July 4th now, it’s already too late to call it with close down next week.
I think Sunak likes being Prime Minister, and it eats him up he’s getting chucked out. Even if experts point to the optimum day in 2024 he will lose less seats and help the party by choosing that, I still think he’ll hang on till the end based on self interest. I wouldn’t even rule out January.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
Most politicians mangle their words if they are on the front lines, listen to some of early Thatcher as leader phase. She was nothing like the Prime Minister became.
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Thatcher didn't have to go on tv and sell herself in debates etc as Sir Keir has to.
He seems ok when he is giving the inquisition, as no doubt he was when a barrister, but when he is under questioning, or trying to be funny, he seems to freeze or crumble.
I don't really get why this is seen as some kind of personal attack on him - I'm not calling him names, or belittling him as many others on here do politicians they dislike, I don't say he will be a bad PM should he become one. I just think the public will find him a bit of a stiff during the campaign, which may afffect the size of majority/whether there is one at all.
It's because it's such a nasty slur in its original context. It's like a school bully sneering at someone because he has a pimple. And the conduct of the chief bully and his worshippers was pure playground. You going all over sympathetici and recommending cotton wool and Clearasil doesn't change that.
It's like lanyards. One wonders what on earth the Conservative Government thinks it is on earth for if it is spending its time focussing on such issues.
Lanyard sounds a bit like Bromyard. The BBC should send a reporter to Bromyard to report on it.
Personally am keeping ‘em crossed for July, but that’s a hope not a prediction. I don’t know when it will be, but my actual prediction is that the longer he waits the more the public will see him as either frit or a ditherer.
He wants the wedge issue of immigration to be hot so he won't go until he's 100% he can get flights off before or during the campaign. As soon as practicable after that seems likely.
Now, I'm not in the UK. But are there really millions of potential Conservative voters who are desperate to return to the fold just so long as a couple of flights have left for Rwanda?
My gut - and I realize I'm in California - is that voters have now reached that stage where they want a change. Sunak isn't right wing enough to stop defections to Reform. And he isn't centrist enough to avoid losing votes to the LibDems and Labour. He's also screwed by the fact that the Left is likely to vote highly tactically, while the Right will very definitely not.
There's no bogeyman, either. Who - other than @bigjohnowls and @isam - is going to march to the polling station and vote Conservative out of fear of Starmer? (And with Johnson gone, I think bjo will be going green.)
And I don't see an easy way out. There's no popular MP in the wings who can galvanize support and bring the disparate factions together.
It's time for the Conservative Party to accept that the electorate is going to give them a drubbing.
And, if it's any consolation, the problems with the UK economy will still be there in five years time. So you never know, the Conservatives may get another chance sooner rather than later.
I have decided to cast my first ever vote for the Conservatives in this General Election.
The UK has not had a proper Conservative government for too long, and needs one. That certainly won’t be delivered by Labour.
I'm not sure it will be delivered by Conservatives either! 😈
Personally am keeping ‘em crossed for July, but that’s a hope not a prediction. I don’t know when it will be, but my actual prediction is that the longer he waits the more the public will see him as either frit or a ditherer.
He wants the wedge issue of immigration to be hot so he won't go until he's 100% he can get flights off before or during the campaign. As soon as practicable after that seems likely.
Now, I'm not in the UK. But are there really millions of potential Conservative voters who are desperate to return to the fold just so long as a couple of flights have left for Rwanda?
My gut - and I realize I'm in California - is that voters have now reached that stage where they want a change. Sunak isn't right wing enough to stop defections to Reform. And he isn't centrist enough to avoid losing votes to the LibDems and Labour. He's also screwed by the fact that the Left is likely to vote highly tactically, while the Right will very definitely not.
There's no bogeyman, either. Who - other than @bigjohnowls and @isam - is going to march to the polling station and vote Conservative out of fear of Starmer? (And with Johnson gone, I think bjo will be going green.)
And I don't see an easy way out. There's no popular MP in the wings who can galvanize support and bring the disparate factions together.
It's time for the Conservative Party to accept that the electorate is going to give them a drubbing.
And, if it's any consolation, the problems with the UK economy will still be there in five years time. So you never know, the Conservatives may get another chance sooner rather than later.
I have decided to cast my first ever vote for the Conservatives in this General Election.
The UK has not had a proper Conservative government for too long, and needs one. That certainly won’t be delivered by Labour.
I find it very bizarre how Sunak ended up in politics. He’s a young guy who has made a fortune, he’s married extremely well, he’s ridiculously well educated. He could have skipped politics and possibly had more influence on the world than being UKPM.
He’s, purely on an insider view, the sort of wykehamist who was ragged at school mercilessly, shiort for sports maths geek, would have likely never played major team sports, not a Royal Marine CCF chap but done RAF geekery, a bit of a nice meh person who must have been a genuinely caring person to be made his Head of House - because he couldn’t have been joint head boy otherwise - because you had to be a bastard like I was to be a Co Prae or just seriously great. I’d been done at school for drugs and girls in rooms and so - unless Rishi is a dark horse - he’s a really caring, nice, intelligent, cooperative, organised chap.
He’s not ideological because most ideological Wykehamists are left wing so I would love to talk to him to understand what he wanted to do with being PM.
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
Well I wouldn't say that. Although you could use it for scale. (ducks)
Barristers having to treat Lesley Sewell of the PO as though she is a child, such is her fragility and uselessness.
Lesley Sewell former Chief Information Officer of the PO, that is.
Being a senior IT person does not prepare you for this. I am surprised, given it is televised and has been the subject of such scrutiny in recent months, more people have not reacted as she did.
Maybe but she was the head of IT. Not just some IT bod stuck in the back in a black t-shirt. You would expect her to be all over her department and what was going on. Which should in turn have provided cover and competence for the questions being asked.
Although I suppose the whole inquiry has been characterised by PO heads of this and that who knew nothing that was happening in their departments.
She seems to have sort-of known. But comes across as too feeble to make an issue of it.
Sewell said: “When I read this email I couldn’t understand it.”
She said she also disagreed with the Post Office’s strategy to refer to software bugs as “exceptions” or “anomalies” in reports about the Horizon system, but went along with it because it was a direction.
“I just thought it was mad,” said Sewell. “I really didn’t understand the concern of using the word ‘bug’ or ‘fault’ because that’s what they were.”
She agreed it appears management wanted to minimise the seriousness of bugs through the use of language. “They were faults and I wouldn’t class them as anomalies, but it changed how we had to communicate about bugs,” said Sewell.
During the hearing, it emerged she felt on the outside of the organisation towards the end of her time there, and was tearful when asked about a period she described as “very hard” for her...
The PO IT department seems to have been quite small: .. On her arrival, she said the Post Office IT team was very small and reliant on Royal Mail Group IT; there was no IT risk register; and there were concerns, in the legal team, over the Horizon contract with Fujitsu, which had not been put out for tender..
In my role I work for a lot of good people who've worked for horrible organisations, and who have just been too weak to do anything about the horribleness. She strikes me as one of those. She's not heroic whistleblower material, and clearly didn't feel able to stand up to management, but, equally, she doesn't deserve automatic opprobrium just because she worked at the malignant PO for 5 years.
She worked at Northern Rock for 25 years until 2010. She probably thought taking the PO job would enhance her career after an organisation she had clearly been loyal to hit the skids spectacularly - again through no fault of her own.
"Through no fault of her own" is doing WAY WAY WAY toooooooo much heavy lifting here.
You’re holding her responsible for the downfall of Northern Rock? Huge if true.
No. What I'm doubting, is your contention she was faultless with regard to EITHER of the quasi-criminal enterprises she's been employed by for the most of her career as an (alleged) IT expert.
BTW (also FYI) here is an interesting sample of Leslie Sewell's "leadership" at as (alleged) PO CIO:
A: Visionary, inclusive, pacesetting, clear on outcomes and goals, coaching, decisive and people focused.
Q: What key technologies do you consider enable transformation?
A: In the context of Post Office our Digital platform will be a key enabler and at the heart of our strategy. Building it in such a way that we utilise all aspects of open, cloud and COTs products to give us flexibility is key. In addition, fixing the infrastructure around our end user capability.
SSI - "In addition"!
Ok, “no fault” was perhaps over egging it. But when she started at Northern Rock it was a solid, staid, worthy (dare I say boring) provincial building society. The later, post-demutualisation, decisions that led to its demise have been well documented and, I can confidently assert, had nothing to do with the IT department.
As for the PO, the simple chronology mostly clears her. She joined in 2010, more than a decade after Horizon was installed, and years into the cavalcade of bent prosecutions that resulted therefrom. From bitter experience that there is not an organisation in this jurisdiction that willingly allows IT anywhere near legal decision making.
She should have stood up to management when they started doing shit she didn’t agree with. But that takes guts. No one knows what they would have done in that situation.
Mostly true enough.
As for last sentence, yours truly DOES know, that you could not pay me enough to spout the total BS bumpf Sewell was quoted as saying . . . five years or thereabouts AFTER she started ITing for PO.
Also, where is evidence that "started doing shit she didn't agree with"? Other than her own "testimony" that is?
Personally am keeping ‘em crossed for July, but that’s a hope not a prediction. I don’t know when it will be, but my actual prediction is that the longer he waits the more the public will see him as either frit or a ditherer.
He wants the wedge issue of immigration to be hot so he won't go until he's 100% he can get flights off before or during the campaign. As soon as practicable after that seems likely.
Now, I'm not in the UK. But are there really millions of potential Conservative voters who are desperate to return to the fold just so long as a couple of flights have left for Rwanda?
My gut - and I realize I'm in California - is that voters have now reached that stage where they want a change. Sunak isn't right wing enough to stop defections to Reform. And he isn't centrist enough to avoid losing votes to the LibDems and Labour. He's also screwed by the fact that the Left is likely to vote highly tactically, while the Right will very definitely not.
There's no bogeyman, either. Who - other than @bigjohnowls and @isam - is going to march to the polling station and vote Conservative out of fear of Starmer? (And with Johnson gone, I think bjo will be going green.)
And I don't see an easy way out. There's no popular MP in the wings who can galvanize support and bring the disparate factions together.
It's time for the Conservative Party to accept that the electorate is going to give them a drubbing.
And, if it's any consolation, the problems with the UK economy will still be there in five years time. So you never know, the Conservatives may get another chance sooner rather than later.
I have decided to cast my first ever vote for the Conservatives in this General Election.
The UK has not had a proper Conservative government for too long, and needs one. That certainly won’t be delivered by Labour.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
"I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy"
Well that bit's right
The biggest U turn in British political history was Boris Johnson's conversion from Europhile to rampant Brexiteer at the very moment he pulled one or other letter from his pocket.
I would add in that instance Johnson U-turned in order to become Prime Minister irrespective of whatever the cost to the nation. He put personal ambition before party or nation.
Who was that again? Boris Johnson.
That's called pragmatism nowadays... you're so 2010s!
Back when Johnson pulled the wrong letter out of his pocket it wasn't simply out of pragmatism it was mainly naked ambition.
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
That's just not right. I'm sure there will be plenty critical of Labour's policies and plans and that's fair enough and once in Government they (and he) should and will be held accountable.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
"I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy"
Well that bit's right
The biggest U turn in British political history was Boris Johnson's conversion from Europhile to rampant Brexiteer at the very moment he pulled one or other letter from his pocket.
I would add in that instance Johnson U-turned in order to become Prime Minister irrespective of whatever the cost to the nation. He put personal ambition before party or nation.
Who was that again? Boris Johnson.
That's called pragmatism nowadays... you're so 2010s!
Back when Johnson pulled the wrong letter out of his pocket it wasn't simply out of pragmatism it was mainly naked ambition.
Barristers having to treat Lesley Sewell of the PO as though she is a child, such is her fragility and uselessness.
Lesley Sewell former Chief Information Officer of the PO, that is.
Being a senior IT person does not prepare you for this. I am surprised, given it is televised and has been the subject of such scrutiny in recent months, more people have not reacted as she did.
Maybe but she was the head of IT. Not just some IT bod stuck in the back in a black t-shirt. You would expect her to be all over her department and what was going on. Which should in turn have provided cover and competence for the questions being asked.
Although I suppose the whole inquiry has been characterised by PO heads of this and that who knew nothing that was happening in their departments.
She seems to have sort-of known. But comes across as too feeble to make an issue of it.
Sewell said: “When I read this email I couldn’t understand it.”
She said she also disagreed with the Post Office’s strategy to refer to software bugs as “exceptions” or “anomalies” in reports about the Horizon system, but went along with it because it was a direction.
“I just thought it was mad,” said Sewell. “I really didn’t understand the concern of using the word ‘bug’ or ‘fault’ because that’s what they were.”
She agreed it appears management wanted to minimise the seriousness of bugs through the use of language. “They were faults and I wouldn’t class them as anomalies, but it changed how we had to communicate about bugs,” said Sewell.
During the hearing, it emerged she felt on the outside of the organisation towards the end of her time there, and was tearful when asked about a period she described as “very hard” for her...
The PO IT department seems to have been quite small: .. On her arrival, she said the Post Office IT team was very small and reliant on Royal Mail Group IT; there was no IT risk register; and there were concerns, in the legal team, over the Horizon contract with Fujitsu, which had not been put out for tender..
In my role I work for a lot of good people who've worked for horrible organisations, and who have just been too weak to do anything about the horribleness. She strikes me as one of those. She's not heroic whistleblower material, and clearly didn't feel able to stand up to management, but, equally, she doesn't deserve automatic opprobrium just because she worked at the malignant PO for 5 years.
She worked at Northern Rock for 25 years until 2010. She probably thought taking the PO job would enhance her career after an organisation she had clearly been loyal to hit the skids spectacularly - again through no fault of her own.
"Through no fault of her own" is doing WAY WAY WAY toooooooo much heavy lifting here.
You’re holding her responsible for the downfall of Northern Rock? Huge if true.
No. What I'm doubting, is your contention she was faultless with regard to EITHER of the quasi-criminal enterprises she's been employed by for the most of her career as an (alleged) IT expert.
BTW (also FYI) here is an interesting sample of Leslie Sewell's "leadership" at as (alleged) PO CIO:
A: Visionary, inclusive, pacesetting, clear on outcomes and goals, coaching, decisive and people focused.
Q: What key technologies do you consider enable transformation?
A: In the context of Post Office our Digital platform will be a key enabler and at the heart of our strategy. Building it in such a way that we utilise all aspects of open, cloud and COTs products to give us flexibility is key. In addition, fixing the infrastructure around our end user capability.
SSI - "In addition"!
Ok, “no fault” was perhaps over egging it. But when she started at Northern Rock it was a solid, staid, worthy (dare I say boring) provincial building society. The later, post-demutualisation, decisions that led to its demise have been well documented and, I can confidently assert, had nothing to do with the IT department.
As for the PO, the simple chronology mostly clears her. She joined in 2010, more than a decade after Horizon was installed, and years into the cavalcade of bent prosecutions that resulted therefrom. From bitter experience that there is not an organisation in this jurisdiction that willingly allows IT anywhere near legal decision making.
She should have stood up to management when they started doing shit she didn’t agree with. But that takes guts. No one knows what they would have done in that situation.
Mostly true enough.
As for last sentence, yours truly DOES know, that you could not pay me enough to spout the total BS bumpf Sewell was quoted as saying . . . five years or thereabouts AFTER she started ITing for PO.
Also, where is evidence that "started doing shit she didn't agree with"? Other than her own "testimony" that is?
I’m taking that at face. If you prefer replace those words with “did shit that was morally and legally wrong”.
I work with whistleblowers a lot, it’s an area that made what small reputation I have in the profession, and it’s not as easy as people think.
Good evening from Schiphol. I note that the hard left are banging on about Israel again. Yes, what their government are doing is increasingly intolerable. No, it’s not genocide. But the appalling bit is how the hard left use the Palestinians as human shields.
Their target is Starmer. If not Palestine they would have a different issue to scream about. They seem virulently angry that normal voters aren’t as exorcised as they are. Of course they aren’t - it isn’t in their control.
So if you need an excuse to vote against Starmer, vote for the Tories, or for Galloway, don’t pretend it is honest. It isn’t. And don’t be outraged that others aren’t as het up as you. Your views - however self-righteously hurled - are not automatically the views of the majority. Or even what *should be* the views of the majority…
Doubtless there will be as many comments on here about Sunak's enunciation failure as there were about Starmer's stumble at PMQ's yesterday.
LOL!
Would be even funnier if there had been an enunciation failure from Sunak!
I think the point is that it's an incredibly trivial matter – he slipped up on a word. People do it all the time; you do it; I do it. We all do. I present for a living. It doesn't matter as long as you KBO.
I think the fact that Sir Keir gets flustered and mangles his words under pressure is not trivial, if you consider the public's opinion of a politician as important. The likes of Brown, Miliband and May all faltered in part due to their awkward personalities and manner of speech
I think the story here is your attempt to boost it to a matter of importance. The public either haven’t noticed or don’t give a shit…
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
This attack line isn't going to work for Sunak (his painfully prepared "Steam bro" response to the "tech brother" stumble was pure cringe), but it's one of the few things that CCHQ have to go on - so we'll see much more of the Sleepy Keith stuff, I'm sure of it.
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
He could fart into his hands and throw it into the faces of most people on here and they'd find a way to say it was fair enough
Depends on the smell. Roasty? Sulphurous? Pooey? Weirdly unscented?
The privileged trump of the lawyer, smelling, miraculously, of faux earnestness with warning notes of caulked wine, lingering and, ultimately, foul.
Corked wine.
Yes. I'm not sure why I went with a different word
In solidarity with Starmer, Sunak, Biden, etc., etc., etc. ?
If you think the Tories are having a bad time spare a thought for the IDF. They're saying they've run out of Palestinians to shoot so they're turning on their own men.
Yes, it’s hilarious that a few young men have been killed by accident. As were British men, French men, Americans, pretty much everyone in war killed by their own side. I won’t ever know if my great uncle was shot down and killed by his own side in North Africa, frankly it doesn’t matter as it was all shit, but it’s an absolute blinder of a card to play for “my side v your side”. How Saddam’s supporters laughed at the UK/US blue on blue deaths.
This isn't a war.
It's a Genocide
“Hey guys, I’ve got a great idea, let’s go and kill loads of our neighbours in a really really horrific way. What could go wrong?”
Cue, everything going wrong.
“ oh that’s not fair”
You fucking idiot.
Proportionate response is acceptable a Genocide and bombing of civilians infrastructure is not.
I believe you are the aforesaid fucking idiot if you think 35000 civilians are Hamas
No, I’m just an admittedly horrible person who thinks that if you punch me in the face I will punch you many times, smash your wind pipe and smash your bollocks so you never reproduce. Everyone knows Israel are terrible like I am and yet they started the fight. What did they think the response would be?
No you are responding to my punching you in the face by shooting my whole extended family and carpet bombing the whole population of Chesterfield whilst turning off water and stopping food from entering Derbyshire just in case you missed anyone. You will especially target women and children because that is how bad Genocide supporters are. You caught me by surprise I expected to be punished but couldn't have forseen you were a genocidal maniac.
BTW you know you are one of the last few brainwashed don't you. Only 10% are in your category 58% and rising in mine (and that was a month ago will have risen further still now
I’m looking forward to being the 1/10 who didn’t want to support lunatics who hate Jews, gays, people who don’t follow an ideology. The funniest thing is that under the regime of those you support you would probably be a second class citizen at best or up against a wall at worst. You are supposedly a left wing, supporting everyone, minorities, the works but you support a regime that fucking hates all you stand for. Freedom for women, minorities, sexuality. You cannot see that the world you want is made worse by these fuckers and until everyone learns that they are not acting in your best interests they will be there terrifying you into electing them. As a left winger stand up and demand Hamas and all their ilk fuck off. Otherwise you are just a useful idiot.
How many of these dead women and children are "these fucker" or are all Muslims categorised by you in that manner. Islamophbia I think is the name for that.
It’s not remotely “islamaphobia” - Islam is a fine religion but as flawed as Christianity or any other religion. Hamas isn’t about Islam in its Koranic sense - it’s about control and a bunch of small dicked men who cannot handle women being free, men loving men, and power and money. Get me a secular gov in Gaza and I will die in a ditch against Israel suppressing it but you absolutely know that Hamas hate everything you stand for.
Seriously, imagine if Hamas take over Sheffield and your wife, daughter, have to obey bullshit ancient religious nonsense. Imagine you cannot go down the pub if you feel like it. You and I are weirdly probably aligned on freedoms and yet you support people who want to smash others freedoms.
And yet, if I lived in Sheffield under such conditions and the rest of Yorkshire were to invade, drive me out of my home, flatten most of the buildings in the city, and kill thousands in the process... I imagine that I might be tempted to swallow my hatred for the bigoted city council for a while and stand with them against the invaders.
At that point, it becomes a matter of simple patriotism doesn't it? I'd like to think that it wouldn't affect me, but realistically it probably would.
And that's the risk for Israel - even if they manage to eradicate the Hamas organisation entirely, what use is it if they've turned everyone else in Gaza against them?
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
She is now (or was) certain it will be in July and cannot possibly be any other month. I dare say her serial certainty will continue all bloody year.
It won’t be July 4th now, it’s already too late to call it with close down next week.
I think Sunak likes being Prime Minister, and it eats him up he’s getting chucked out. Even if experts point to the optimum day in 2024 he will lose less seats and help the party by choosing that, I still think he’ll hang on till the end based on self interest. I wouldn’t even rule out January.
I find it very bizarre how Sunak ended up in politics. He’s a young guy who has made a fortune, he’s married extremely well, he’s ridiculously well educated. He could have skipped politics and possibly had more influence on the world than being UKPM.
He’s, purely on an insider view, the sort of wykehamist who was ragged at school mercilessly, shiort for sports maths geek, would have likely never played major team sports, not a Royal Marine CCF chap but done RAF geekery, a bit of a nice meh person who must have been a genuinely caring person to be made his Head of House - because he couldn’t have been joint head boy otherwise - because you had to be a bastard like I was to be a Co Prae or just seriously great. I’d been done at school for drugs and girls in rooms and so - unless Rishi is a dark horse - he’s a really caring, nice, intelligent, cooperative, organised chap.
He’s not ideological because most ideological Wykehamists are left wing so I would love to talk to him to understand what he wanted to do with being PM.
Maybe he just continually makes epically bad decisions?
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
She is now (or was) certain it will be in July and cannot possibly be any other month. I dare say her serial certainty will continue all bloody year.
It won’t be July 4th now, it’s already too late to call it with close down next week.
I think Sunak likes being Prime Minister, and it eats him up he’s getting chucked out. Even if experts point to the optimum day in 2024 he will lose less seats and help the party by choosing that, I still think he’ll hang on till the end based on self interest. I wouldn’t even rule out January.
"It won’t be July 4th now . . ." Are you certain?
Key to semi-successful pseudo-prognostication, is to make "Delphic" utterances.
As in, "Rishi Sunak will call the GE before the Great Pumpkin arises anew". Or "withers anon" take your pick!
I noticed megasaur suggesting December on the previous thread and I've had a sneaking suspicion the same way myself for a whle now.
To be precise, I'm thinking the 12 of December. Again.
Rationale: Sunak doesn't want to pull the trigger on ending the Tory Government any sooner than he has to, which gives him the impulse to run as long as he can.
Accepting the fact that a campaign over Christmas would indeed be desperate, and look desperate, and piss people off still further, it's about as late as he realistically can go.
He can kind of justify (or at least pretend to justify) going that late on the grounds that the last one was December 12th, after all, so it's the five year point, and we all accepted a 12th December election last time.
Yes, it'll make things harder for activists, but that's more a Labour and Lib Dem problem than a Tory one, because they don't exactly have many activists left, so fewer activists all round makes for a more air-war/Royal Mail delivery campaign, which they'll be able to handle, and partly mitigate their activist disadvantage.
Moon Rabbit was certain in was going to be May! She explained how logically it could be no other date.
Don't tell me I've spent my life savings on a pup!
She is now (or was) certain it will be in July and cannot possibly be any other month. I dare say her serial certainty will continue all bloody year.
It won’t be July 4th now, it’s already too late to call it with close down next week.
I think Sunak likes being Prime Minister, and it eats him up he’s getting chucked out. Even if experts point to the optimum day in 2024 he will lose less seats and help the party by choosing that, I still think he’ll hang on till the end based on self interest. I wouldn’t even rule out January.
Comments
Oh, sorry, forgot, pointing out your obsession in this matter is effectively censorship. My bad.
'Sir Keir Starmer has been endorsed by an old Etonian who was a member of the Bullingdon Club alongside Lord Cameron and Boris Johnson.
Sebastian James, the managing director of Boots UK, was unveiled by Labour as one of the latest business figures to back the party during a rally event on Thursday.
Mr James, the son of the hereditary peer the 5th Baron Northbourne, appeared in a video message to endorse Rachel Reeves’ plan for the economy.'
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/16/sebastian-james-endorses-starmer-bullingdon-club-cameron/
I am not attempting to boost it to a matter of importance; I am not campaigning for anyone or speaking about it anywhere but on here. It obviously bugs you, as you keep butting in to make snidey comments, but that's by the by
SKS might be well advised to get out in front of it - own the age gap between him and Starmer (Reagan style!), make a virtue of being serious-minded, and perhaps even playing up the occasional stumble to humanise him a little.
In Indonesia getting info out of Javanese was particularly tough. “Yes” either meant “Yes” or “You are so wrong I’m not going to be the one to break it to you”.
So I’d try to have meeting with Batak (northern Sumatra, Christian - start fight in an empty room) there - so “everyone agree?” And off they’d go - the Javanese then had to then join in or otherwise they’d loose face, and if you were lucky, you’d get to the truth.
I once heard an expat ask a Javanese manager “Can you do it?” “It will be difficult” “But you can get it done?” “It will be very very difficult” “Ok then, do it”. I took him aside to explain that his subordinate was saying “No”.
It's the future
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/26/boots-boss-pay-profits-stores
Do you only comment on things you have direct experience with? Like, for example, the world outside advertsising or privileged British/Euro society?
Do you not think, just maybe, that instead of a brutal murderous rape cruise the Palestinians would have been better off getting Netflix to follow young Palestinians in a peace moment bonding with Israeli kids at music festivals?
I really hate these meaningless soundbites. 'Starmer insists he is trustworthy' yes, so do confidence tricksters. It's completely banal.
Sunak can insist he's competent, Starmer that he's trustworthy, Davey that he's a real politician, Berry that she's all in for the duration in Brighton but it's all bunk. We get to decide that.
BTW you know you are one of the last few brainwashed don't you. Only 10% are in your category 58% and rising in mine (and that was a month ago will have risen further still now
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/04/04/8aa72/1
I can imagine a Palestinian of my age encouraging his grandsons to revenge my miserable death, and the destruction of the business I’d built.
The difference is the relentless personal attacks which are a thinly-veiled attmept to convince (or try to convince) Starmer is not the right "character" to be Prime Minister. Who cares if he trips over a word in the Commons - that hardly makes him untrustworthy or unsuitable to be Prime Minister?
I'm sure anyone can go back and come up with examples of where Starmer has changed policy - most politicians do that. Even Boris Johnson, would you believe, changed his mind and his views on occasion.
Well that bit's right
We really have a generation of political lightweights at the top of all our political parties. Except possibly Plaid Cymru!
Unless Swinney has learned from last time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN7gDRjTNf4
Like Thatcher, Starmer is an eminent barrister who rose to the very top job for a barrister in England & Wales.
If he was frequently getting flustered and mangled he wouldn't have won so many cases and helped so many terrorists win their cases (copyright The Sun.)
I am one of life's gobby bastards, even I occasionally mangle a word in front of an audience.
Seriously, imagine if Hamas take over Sheffield and your wife, daughter, have to obey bullshit ancient religious nonsense. Imagine you cannot go down the pub if you feel like it. You and I are weirdly probably aligned on freedoms and yet you support people who want to smash others freedoms.
I also wonder how the average IDF conscript feels about his officers.
(quoting messed up - the above bit is from isam)
...
You're pinning your hopes to a single Starmer stumble, whilst ignoring the two more recent similar examples from Sunak - but it's Sunak's "November election" one that has got traction in the media.
All three were of the type that fills most of us who've ever done any form of public speaking with dread. It takes someone special to rise above that and not be phased by it at all - a Blair, or a Boris, perhaps.
Neither Starmer nor Sunak are remotely in the same league, but that's okay - that type of character has worn out their welcome for now. And looking on the bright side, neither is likely to ever produce a clanger on the level of "this is not a time for sound bites; I feel the hand of history on our shoulder"!
He seems ok when he is giving the inquisition, as no doubt he was when a barrister, but when he is under questioning, or trying to be funny, he seems to freeze or crumble.
I don't really get why this is seen as some kind of personal attack on him - I'm not calling him names, or belittling him as many others on here do politicians they dislike, I don't say he will be a bad PM should he become one. I just think the public will find him a bit of a stiff during the campaign, which may afffect the size of majority/whether there is one at all.
I think unquestionably Israel has more enemies and fewer/less committed allies than just after the terrible terrorist attack.
The UK has not had a proper Conservative government for too long, and needs one. That certainly won’t be delivered by Labour.
All three were of the type that fills most of us who've ever done any form of public speaking with dread. It takes someone special to rise above that and not be phased by it at all - a Blair, or a Boris, perhaps.
Neither Starmer nor Sunak are remotely in the same league, but that's okay - that type of character has worn out their welcome for now. And looking on the bright side, neither is likely to ever produce a clanger on the level of "this is not a time for sound bites; I feel the hand of history on our shoulder"!
I am not pinning my hopes on a single Starmer stumble, I just think he will come over poorly generally in the campaign
Sunak didn't stumble today, he was misheard as the audience clapped him!
It's like lanyards. One wonders what on earth the Conservative Government thinks it is on earth for if it is spending its time focussing on such issues.
I would add in that instance Johnson U-turned in order to become Prime Minister irrespective of whatever the cost to the nation. He put personal ambition before party or nation.
Who was that again? Boris Johnson.
I think Sunak likes being Prime Minister, and it eats him up he’s getting chucked out. Even if experts point to the optimum day in 2024 he will lose less seats and help the party by choosing that, I still think he’ll hang on till the end based on self interest. I wouldn’t even rule out January.
He’s, purely on an insider view, the sort of wykehamist who was ragged at school mercilessly, shiort for sports maths geek, would have likely never played major team sports, not a Royal Marine CCF chap but done RAF geekery, a bit of a nice meh person who must have been a genuinely caring person to be made his Head of House - because he couldn’t have been joint head boy otherwise - because you had to be a bastard like I was to be a Co Prae or just seriously great. I’d been done at school for drugs and girls in rooms and so - unless Rishi is a dark horse - he’s a really caring, nice, intelligent, cooperative, organised chap.
He’s not ideological because most ideological Wykehamists are left wing so I would love to talk to him to understand what he wanted to do with being PM.
As for last sentence, yours truly DOES know, that you could not pay me enough to spout the total BS bumpf Sewell was quoted as saying . . . five years or thereabouts AFTER she started ITing for PO.
Also, where is evidence that "started doing shit she didn't agree with"? Other than her own "testimony" that is?
(Result fixed by Hampshire bill to avoid the South Coast Derby...)
If Dirty Leeds make the final then The Met will have to deal with fans of Dirty Leeds and Manchester United congregating in London next weekend.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9ecc8fdc-923b-4f3d-b4f6-6a72e7694086?shareToken=a8715597bd29166fc32b398a718c2864
I work with whistleblowers a lot, it’s an area that made what small reputation I have in the profession, and it’s not as easy as people think.
Their target is Starmer. If not Palestine they would have a different issue to scream about. They seem virulently angry that normal voters aren’t as exorcised as they are. Of course they aren’t - it isn’t in their control.
So if you need an excuse to vote against Starmer, vote for the Tories, or for Galloway, don’t pretend it is honest. It isn’t. And don’t be outraged that others aren’t as het up as you. Your views - however self-righteously hurled - are not automatically the views of the majority. Or even what *should be* the views of the majority…
Scotland:
Con: 21
Lab: 42
SNP: 26
LD: 4
Green: 5
https://deltapoll.co.uk/polls/voteint240513
* For newbies - not to be taken entirely seriously as its a very small base - in this case 90.
At that point, it becomes a matter of simple patriotism doesn't it? I'd like to think that it wouldn't affect me, but realistically it probably would.
And that's the risk for Israel - even if they manage to eradicate the Hamas organisation entirely, what use is it if they've turned everyone else in Gaza against them?
Key to semi-successful pseudo-prognostication, is to make "Delphic" utterances.
As in, "Rishi Sunak will call the GE before the Great Pumpkin arises anew". Or "withers anon" take your pick!
🤣
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/joint-statement-on-the-withdrawal-agreement-joint-committee-and-trade-and-cooperation-agreement-partnership-council-meetings-16-may-2024