Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

Guilt and Shame – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,733
edited May 11 in General
Guilt and Shame – politicalbetting.com

I am an adoptive father, twice over. Like all adopters, I have been mandated/encouraged/enabled to undertake a range of training and education on how the minds of children develop and work, and how trauma and neglect can affect that. Many adopters say lightheartedly that we are lucky, because all parents should have access to what we learn.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,080
    edited May 11
    First

    Thanks for the piece, James. The new series of Dr Who (first 2 episodes already on iPlayer) explores themes around adoption.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    Starmer is literally worse than Hitler.

    Labour’s VAT plans blamed for fall in private school entries

    Enrolments are expected to drop even further this September as parents are deterred by higher fees, which could rise by up to 20%


    The number of children joining private schools has dropped by the largest proportion in more than a decade, new figures reveal.

    Enrolments at independent schools this academic year have fallen by 2.7 per cent, according to a report by the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the largest annual drop since it began collecting data on new starters in 2011.

    The body, which represents almost 1,400 private schools, said Labour’s pledge to remove the VAT exemption for fees deterred parents from committing to private education this year and predicted numbers would drop further this autumn. Experts say the policy could lead some schools to close.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-school-students-fees-closing-down-labour-vat-plans-06ndtdr9q
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,766
    Allies of Sir Keir Starmer have drawn up a list of dozens of Conservative MPs who they believe could be persuaded to defect to Labour.

    The party has said it is in talks with more Conservatives after Natalie Elphicke and Dan Poulter crossed the floor.

    And a list being shared in Labour circles, and seen by The Times, contains 26 Tories who could be targeted.

    The “defection watch” list has been drawn up based on a number of factors including whether the MP is standing at the next election, the size of their majority and their position on issues such as Brexit, the conversion therapy ban and cuts to foreign aid.

    Starmer said on Friday that Elphicke joining his party’s ranks reflected the mood of the country as Rishi Sunak was “clinging on” to power.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-defecting-labour-wes-streeting-qrz96pztr
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,722
    Yes, some very interesting insights here. Thank you for sharing them.

    But then,,, moving on to the world of politics.... Why have so many of our political leaders in recent years behaved so badly?
  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,400
    A very thought provoking piece.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315
    An excellent threader, thanks. It's given me much to ponder on during the day.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315
    Off-topic: a stunning picture.

    "Ukrainian SSO SOF operator under the aurora, Donetsk Oblast."

    https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1789094460086685974
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315
    "The first invasive brain chip that Neuralink embedded into a human brain has malfunctioned, with neuron-surveilling threads appearing to have become dislodged from the participant's brain, the company revealed in a blog post Wednesday."

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/elon-musks-neuralink-reports-trouble-with-first-human-brain-chip/
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,732
    ClippP said:

    Yes, some very interesting insights here. Thank you for sharing them.

    But then,,, moving on to the world of politics.... Why have so many of our political leaders in recent years behaved so badly?

    Probably a variant of the same thing- a set of experiences that makes them process the world in a way that's not conducive to a good society.

    We complain about politicians who don't tell us the truth about tradeoffs, or who stick to dumb plans long after they should have been binned... But then we vote for them.

    Most people make a reasonable attempt at navigating the world by the map they possess. Sometimes, those maps are tragically inaccurate... or rather, people have life stories that means that their world consists only of the worst bits of our world.

    But sometimes, it is the case that the world rewards behaviours that, if we stop and think, we probably shouldn't. It may have been better all round had someone said "this subpostmasters thing... it's not right, is it?" But I fully get why nobody did. People with a profound moral core are uncomfortable to be around.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047
    edited May 11

    "The first invasive brain chip that Neuralink embedded into a human brain has malfunctioned, with neuron-surveilling threads appearing to have become dislodged from the participant's brain, the company revealed in a blog post Wednesday."

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/elon-musks-neuralink-reports-trouble-with-first-human-brain-chip/

    Unscheduled rapid disassembly seems to be a feature of this Musk product too.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,315
    ClippP said:

    Yes, some very interesting insights here. Thank you for sharing them.

    But then,,, moving on to the world of politics.... Why have so many of our political leaders in recent years behaved so badly?

    Perhaps a combination of things:
    *) Politics can mean power and prestige; even a local backbench MP has this, and power and prestige can attract the wrong sort of person; or corrupt.

    *) They are constantly under the microscope, in a way you or I are not. We may do something silly, or wrong in a minor way, and no-one will comment. If an MP does it, then it is ammunition for their opponents.

    *) They often get asked to do things not necessarily in their competence, or outside their expertise domain. This leads to mistakes.

    *) Some are genuinely wrong 'uns.

    *) We notice the occasions when MPs do bad things, as they appear in the papers or on the news. We don't notice when they do good things, e.g. helping constituents. Because that's not newsworthy.

    If I was an MP I'd probably be in the papers every other month. And I don't think I'm necessarily a bad person; just utterly unsuited for that role.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,336
    Biden to impose 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.

    https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 947

    Allies of Sir Keir Starmer have drawn up a list of dozens of Conservative MPs who they believe could be persuaded to defect to Labour.

    The party has said it is in talks with more Conservatives after Natalie Elphicke and Dan Poulter crossed the floor.

    And a list being shared in Labour circles, and seen by The Times, contains 26 Tories who could be targeted.

    The “defection watch” list has been drawn up based on a number of factors including whether the MP is standing at the next election, the size of their majority and their position on issues such as Brexit, the conversion therapy ban and cuts to foreign aid.

    Starmer said on Friday that Elphicke joining his party’s ranks reflected the mood of the country as Rishi Sunak was “clinging on” to power.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-defecting-labour-wes-streeting-qrz96pztr

    I'm not sure you can usefully "target" somebody for defection, but putting it about that you have a list and it's a long one sounds like a good way of putting the wind up Sunak...
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733

    "The first invasive brain chip that Neuralink embedded into a human brain has malfunctioned, with neuron-surveilling threads appearing to have become dislodged from the participant's brain, the company revealed in a blog post Wednesday."

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/elon-musks-neuralink-reports-trouble-with-first-human-brain-chip/

    Strangely on-topic!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,857
    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733

    Biden to impose 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.

    https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58

    Trump's fox shot.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,336

    Biden to impose 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.

    https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58

    Trump's fox shot.
    MAGA trade policy is now the consensus.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    On raising children, there is one paradox often mentioned. Suppose you are a thief, fraudster or county lines drug dealer. How do you bring up your children to enter the family business?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,543
    ...

    Biden to impose 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.

    https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58

    Oh MG!
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226

    ...

    Biden to impose 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.

    https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58

    Oh MG!
    I see what you did there... 😀
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,543

    Biden to impose 100% tariff on Chinese EVs.

    https://www.ft.com/content/9b79b340-50e0-4813-8ed2-42a30e544e58

    Trump's fox shot.
    MAGA trade policy is now the consensus.
    Er, no. It's a reaction to the dumping and discounting of a specific loss leader designed to damage domestic production.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733

    Starmer is literally worse than Hitler.

    Labour’s VAT plans blamed for fall in private school entries

    Enrolments are expected to drop even further this September as parents are deterred by higher fees, which could rise by up to 20%


    The number of children joining private schools has dropped by the largest proportion in more than a decade, new figures reveal.

    Enrolments at independent schools this academic year have fallen by 2.7 per cent, according to a report by the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the largest annual drop since it began collecting data on new starters in 2011.

    The body, which represents almost 1,400 private schools, said Labour’s pledge to remove the VAT exemption for fees deterred parents from committing to private education this year and predicted numbers would drop further this autumn. Experts say the policy could lead some schools to close.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-school-students-fees-closing-down-labour-vat-plans-06ndtdr9q

    VAT on school fees is expected to raise around £1 to £1.5 billion. How much could be raised if prominent Tory donors paid their taxes?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,627
    V interesting header. Thanks @jamesdoyle
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    Very interesting piece.

    Because I'm a nerd I do a lot of my reading of philosophical and psychological topics through the medium of science fiction novels, and coincidentally I've just finished reading a book that looks at similar ideas. It's called "Dogs of War" by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

    One of the ideas that the book explores is the extent to which free will is a burden. Having someone else to tell you what is good and what is bad is a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable, than having to decide oneself.

    I think that, in a complicated world, this helps to explain the attraction of religion and demagogic leaders, who provide a degree of simplicity and certainty that is otherwise lacking. And, on a smaller scale, perhaps also gang leaders and abusers, whose outward displays of self-confidence can be attractive to those without it.

    The sequel to the book, "Bear Head" is also really interesting, and its look at how hierarchies function and develop reminded me of some of the things our Malmesbury has talked about. The idea of the difference between the game (doing your job well) and the metagame (looking like you're doing your job well), in terms of who gets ahead is right on the nose.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,133

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/po/e16voqftq462.jpg" alt="" />

    Remember that day very well - I was at my sister’s wedding in Italy, and they had the UK news on in the bar so we could duck out to get a glimpse of what was going on!

    Which reminds me, I’d better send her a message today to say happy anniversary!
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,110

    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.

    Switzerland is a great song , Israel in any other year would probably win.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162

    Starmer is literally worse than Hitler.

    Labour’s VAT plans blamed for fall in private school entries

    Enrolments are expected to drop even further this September as parents are deterred by higher fees, which could rise by up to 20%


    The number of children joining private schools has dropped by the largest proportion in more than a decade, new figures reveal.

    Enrolments at independent schools this academic year have fallen by 2.7 per cent, according to a report by the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the largest annual drop since it began collecting data on new starters in 2011.

    The body, which represents almost 1,400 private schools, said Labour’s pledge to remove the VAT exemption for fees deterred parents from committing to private education this year and predicted numbers would drop further this autumn. Experts say the policy could lead some schools to close.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-school-students-fees-closing-down-labour-vat-plans-06ndtdr9q

    VAT on school fees is expected to raise around £1 to £1.5 billion. How much could be raised if prominent Tory donors paid their
    taxes?
    Do you have a link? That’s much more than I had thought
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226
    An interesting (and rather pleasant) piece, @jamesdoyle, thank you. A nice surprise for a Saturday morning, I feel
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    edited May 11
    ClippP said:

    Yes, some very interesting insights here. Thank you for sharing them.

    But then,,, moving on to the world of politics.... Why have so many of our political leaders in recent years behaved so badly?

    It's because we select political leaders on the basis of appearing to be good, rather than actually being good.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,080
    nico679 said:

    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.

    Switzerland is a great song , Israel in any other year would probably win.
    The Israeli song is generic nothingness. I don’t see why it would win any year. Georgia’s “Firefighter” is in a similar style but does it better.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733

    Starmer is literally worse than Hitler.

    Labour’s VAT plans blamed for fall in private school entries

    Enrolments are expected to drop even further this September as parents are deterred by higher fees, which could rise by up to 20%


    The number of children joining private schools has dropped by the largest proportion in more than a decade, new figures reveal.

    Enrolments at independent schools this academic year have fallen by 2.7 per cent, according to a report by the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the largest annual drop since it began collecting data on new starters in 2011.

    The body, which represents almost 1,400 private schools, said Labour’s pledge to remove the VAT exemption for fees deterred parents from committing to private education this year and predicted numbers would drop further this autumn. Experts say the policy could lead some schools to close.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-school-students-fees-closing-down-labour-vat-plans-06ndtdr9q

    VAT on school fees is expected to raise around £1 to £1.5 billion. How much could be raised if prominent Tory donors paid their
    taxes?
    Do you have a link? That’s much more than I had thought
    Here is a sceptical look at the claimed revenue.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/vat-england-hmrc-richmond-independent-schools-council-b2352729.html
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    edited May 11

    On raising children, there is one paradox often mentioned. Suppose you are a thief, fraudster or county lines drug dealer. How do you bring up your children to enter the family business?

    Exactly the same way any child is brought up to enter any family business. Start them young, start them small, and do so repeatedly.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    Sandpit said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.

    img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020679/uploads/editor/po/e16voqftq462.jpg" alt="" />

    Remember that day very well - I was at my sister’s wedding in Italy, and they had the UK news on in the bar so we could duck out to get a glimpse of what was going on!

    Which reminds me, I’d better send her a message today to say happy anniversary!
    David Cameron makes fish on toast in this day in the life video from towards the end of the coalition.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9hqE5HVVQk
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226

    Very interesting piece.

    Because I'm a nerd I do a lot of my reading of philosophical and psychological topics through the medium of science fiction novels, and coincidentally I've just finished reading a book that looks at similar ideas. It's called "Dogs of War" by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

    One of the ideas that the book explores is the extent to which free will is a burden. Having someone else to tell you what is good and what is bad is a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable, than having to decide oneself.

    I think that, in a complicated world, this helps to explain the attraction of religion and demagogic leaders, who provide a degree of simplicity and certainty that is otherwise lacking. And, on a smaller scale, perhaps also gang leaders and abusers, whose outward displays of self-confidence can be attractive to those without it.

    The sequel to the book, "Bear Head" is also really interesting, and its look at how hierarchies function and develop reminded me of some of the things our Malmesbury has talked about. The idea of the difference between the game (doing your job well) and the metagame (looking like you're doing your job well), in terms of who gets ahead is right on the nose.

    I'm aging out of science fiction (it happens: you adopt favorite authors, they start dying, you try new ones but the field's moved on) and Adrian Tchaikovsky was at the cusp of this, so I never got into him. Is he any good? His bibliography is quite extensive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Tchaikovsky

  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    It takes a village to raise a child.

    Putting everything onto one or two parents creates a single point of failure. We need to have more adults more involved in children's upbringing so that the damage done by parents who fail is minimised.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,050
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Viewcode, I really liked his Shadows of the Apt (well, first two books, the pricing of the e-books was a bit high). As an aside, he also contributed to the Journeys anthology (which has a story by me in it).
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,680
    viewcode said:

    Very interesting piece.

    Because I'm a nerd I do a lot of my reading of philosophical and psychological topics through the medium of science fiction novels, and coincidentally I've just finished reading a book that looks at similar ideas. It's called "Dogs of War" by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

    One of the ideas that the book explores is the extent to which free will is a burden. Having someone else to tell you what is good and what is bad is a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable, than having to decide oneself.

    I think that, in a complicated world, this helps to explain the attraction of religion and demagogic leaders, who provide a degree of simplicity and certainty that is otherwise lacking. And, on a smaller scale, perhaps also gang leaders and abusers, whose outward displays of self-confidence can be attractive to those without it.

    The sequel to the book, "Bear Head" is also really interesting, and its look at how hierarchies function and develop reminded me of some of the things our Malmesbury has talked about. The idea of the difference between the game (doing your job well) and the metagame (looking like you're doing your job well), in terms of who gets ahead is right on the nose.

    I'm aging out of science fiction (it happens: you adopt favorite authors, they start dying, you try new ones but the field's moved on) and Adrian Tchaikovsky was at the cusp of this, so I never got into him. Is he any good? His bibliography is quite extensive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Tchaikovsky

    I've read four of his books now, and they've all been excellent.

    Children of Time did give me nightmares because I'm arachnophobic, though.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047

    nico679 said:

    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.

    Switzerland is a great song , Israel in any other year would probably win.
    The Israeli song is generic nothingness. I don’t see why it would win any year. Georgia’s “Firefighter” is in a similar style but does it better.
    We don't know yet what happened at the rehearsal, but the Netherlands may well become the repository for pro-Palestinian votes if allowed to be shown in the final tonight. Looks value to me at 5.7 for top 5 and 50 the win on BFX. Its the best song too.

    The order is problematic with Netherlands on immediately before Israel.
  • Options
    The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 405
    Great header. Thank you, @jamesdoyle
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,886
    Thought provoking header - thank you. I suspect most politicians realise that prisons are mainly crime universities - yet nothing gets done.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,147
    edited May 11
    viewcode said:

    Very interesting piece.

    Because I'm a nerd I do a lot of my reading of philosophical and psychological topics through the medium of science fiction novels, and coincidentally I've just finished reading a book that looks at similar ideas. It's called "Dogs of War" by Adrian Tchaikovsky.

    One of the ideas that the book explores is the extent to which free will is a burden. Having someone else to tell you what is good and what is bad is a lot easier, and can be a lot more comfortable, than having to decide oneself.

    I think that, in a complicated world, this helps to explain the attraction of religion and demagogic leaders, who provide a degree of simplicity and certainty that is otherwise lacking. And, on a smaller scale, perhaps also gang leaders and abusers, whose outward displays of self-confidence can be attractive to those without it.

    The sequel to the book, "Bear Head" is also really interesting, and its look at how hierarchies function and develop reminded me of some of the things our Malmesbury has talked about. The idea of the difference between the game (doing your job well) and the metagame (looking like you're doing your job well), in terms of who gets ahead is right on the nose.

    I'm aging out of science fiction (it happens: you adopt favorite authors, they start dying, you try new ones but the field's moved on) and Adrian Tchaikovsky was at the cusp of this, so I never got into him. Is he any good? His bibliography is quite extensive.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Tchaikovsky

    Yes although the speed at which he writes is frankly scary (often 3 thick books a year).

    Got to say I enjoyed some of Children in Time, the Tyrant Philosophers series is fun and the 2 chapters of Service Model i've read have led me to order it at full price.

    And the latter is somethingI never do, my book purchasing habit is look at Kindle's Daily Deal and if it looks interesting buy it. Which means I have 500 or so kindle books waiting for me to finish the current book and randomly select another one.

    If you want other authors - Katherine Addison Goblin Emperor and its two sequels are very good, Any Becky Chambers is worth reading
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Really refreshing header - thank you James.

    On our usual fare, I note two more new polls showing a 2-3% rise in Labour's lead to the 20+ range.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,154
    Thanks for that header James, interesting and thought provoking.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,098

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    Cameras really have improved over that period.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047
    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    The sharp end of the criminal justice system does tend to rather wear down its workers into a very cynical view of humanity.

    It isn't a very representative sample though, and there are also some very people coming out of very unpromising backgrounds and making things out of their lives. Angela Rayner is perhaps the best example, even if not everyone's cup of tea. Expressing her anger at social inequality first through Trade Union activity, then politics.

    Anger is a powerful emotion, but it isn't a single emotion. There is the anger that drives violent retribution, but also righteous anger where someone is spurred to activism. Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple for example.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,098
    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    What do you make of the theory that COVID has made people more selfish? A reaction to the overt public togetherness exhibited during April/May 2020.

    It's a common meme but I wonder if there is any evidence to back it up.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,043
    Fascinating header. I wonder if we can extrapolate the guilt/shame idea out to whole groups or even nations.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,182
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    The sharp end of the criminal justice system does tend to rather wear down its workers into a very cynical view of humanity.

    It isn't a very representative sample though, and there are also some very people coming out of very unpromising backgrounds and making things out of their lives. Angela Rayner is perhaps the best example, even if not everyone's cup of tea. Expressing her anger at social inequality first through Trade Union activity, then politics.

    Anger is a powerful emotion, but it isn't a single emotion. There is the anger that drives violent retribution, but also righteous anger where someone is spurred to activism. Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple for example.
    Yet imagine how Christ would be described on PB if he did that today.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646

    nico679 said:

    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.

    Switzerland is a great song , Israel in any other year would probably win.
    The Israeli song is generic nothingness. I don’t see why it would win any year. Georgia’s “Firefighter” is in a similar style but does it better.
    Joost Klein was pure Eurovision, but will he compete tonight?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    And now he's an unelected has-been.

    (Sorry!)
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,646
    Thought-provoking header, JD. Thanks.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,016
    TimS said:

    Fascinating header. I wonder if we can extrapolate the guilt/shame idea out to whole groups or even nations.

    Also the antonyms:
    Guilt/blameless "It wasn't me guv"
    Shame/self esteem "I'm the chosen one"
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431
    edited May 11
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    The sharp end of the criminal justice system does tend to rather wear down its workers into a very cynical view of humanity.

    It isn't a very representative sample though, and there are also some very people coming out of very unpromising backgrounds and making things out of their lives. Angela Rayner is perhaps the best example, even if not everyone's cup of tea. Expressing her anger at social inequality first through Trade Union activity, then politics.

    Anger is a powerful emotion, but it isn't a single emotion. There is the anger that drives violent retribution, but also righteous anger where someone is spurred to activism. Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple for example.
    Yet imagine how Christ would be described on PB if he did that today.
    'Yes that's all very well but did he protest against Russia/Sudan/KSA etc? Also, is that beard oil he's wearing? And he's made me 10 minutes late for work.'
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,197
    TimS said:

    Fascinating header. I wonder if we can extrapolate the guilt/shame idea out to whole groups or even nations.

    If it extends to groups it would be as a metaphor. Groups as such don't have feelings or senses, only individuals can have those feelings.

  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    Eabhal said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    Cameras really have improved over that period.
    The mods really ought to revisit the picture settings. Currently they are stretched so they are too large for the screen, and also fuzzy with illegible text.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,431
    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    Fascinating header. I wonder if we can extrapolate the guilt/shame idea out to whole groups or even nations.

    If it extends to groups it would be as a metaphor. Groups as such don't have feelings or senses, only individuals can have those feelings.

    Your traditional torch waving, pitchfork wielding mob (a phenomenon that shows no signs of disappearing) could be said to be unified in a feeling, unattractive as it is.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047

    Eabhal said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    Cameras really have improved over that period.
    The mods really ought to revisit the picture settings. Currently they are stretched so they are too large for the screen, and also fuzzy with illegible text.
    A picture ban would be a positive. Save it for Instagram.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,542

    Eabhal said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    Cameras really have improved over that period.
    The mods really ought to revisit the picture settings. Currently they are stretched so they are too large for the screen, and also fuzzy with illegible text.
    Tangentially a bit gutted that I didn’t try harder to see the aurora, but can those who did at least tell me that the photos are making it look far more impressive than the naked eye? Please!
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,461
    Love the header. There absolutely is right and wrong, but as with the rest of human existence its not usually black and white. People do stuff that annoys other people - sometimes incidentally, occasionally specifically to annoy others.

    I've tried to instil a live and let live thing in the kids. Be yourself, be kind, don't do stuff which - accident or by design - pisses people off. Thats not to say I'm a great role model, but I *try* to be.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,461
    Incidentally, my ranty man incident yesterday. My primary instinct is to wonder what life must be like being that angry / bitter / stupid. He dumped his Transit van outside, presumably to annoy me. But it's parked *on a public road*, not outside my house (pedestrian side gate yes, house no - not in my way), and if anything it will slow down passing trucks through the village.

    So what is the point? Aggression is stupid. Stupid passive aggression doubly so.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,260
    edited May 11
    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.

    Switzerland is a great song , Israel in any other year would probably win.
    The Israeli song is generic nothingness. I don’t see why it would win any year. Georgia’s “Firefighter” is in a similar style but does it better.
    We don't know yet what happened at the rehearsal, but the Netherlands may well become the repository for pro-Palestinian votes if allowed to be shown in the final tonight. Looks value to me at 5.7 for top 5 and 50 the win on BFX. Its the best song too.

    The order is problematic with Netherlands on immediately before Israel.
    Bunch of sad losers because Israeli song is far better than their crap
    PS: luckily I have managed to avoid all the rubbish and not heard one note of any of the crap Eurovision mince.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635

    Incidentally, my ranty man incident yesterday. My primary instinct is to wonder what life must be like being that angry / bitter / stupid. He dumped his Transit van outside, presumably to annoy me. But it's parked *on a public road*, not outside my house (pedestrian side gate yes, house no - not in my way), and if anything it will slow down passing trucks through the village.

    So what is the point? Aggression is stupid. Stupid passive aggression doubly so.

    How have OFSTED not hired him? He must have some redeeming feature somewhere.

    (Incidentally he does sound a pretty nasty piece of work, and I hope you're feeling a bit less shaken this morning.)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226
    I have a sneaking regard for the older, Christian (usually Anglican) conservatives like Peter Hitchens. I genuinely don't agree with them (sometimes vehemently), but I like listening to them because they know how to give structured lectures instead of "content". In that vein, here's David Starkey.

    "Revolution and Restoration", Dr David Starkey, New Culture Forum 2024 Conference, YouTube, 54mins, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVa27KpH--U

    (it's too long for a quick AI summary, apologies)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,260
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    What do you make of the theory that COVID has made people more selfish? A reaction to the overt public togetherness exhibited during April/May 2020.

    It's a common meme but I wonder if there is any evidence to back it up.
    Bollox
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,658
    In relation to the interesting header, not enough is said about our wholly dysfunctional prison system, which largely houses people from dysfunctional backgrounds, including many from care.

    What chance do prisoners have of discovering (or-rediscovering) their moral compass in a broken system, where prison education is appalling, overcrowding is rife, self-harm is common, and people are often locked up in inhumane conditions? See last week's damning inspection report on Wandsworth, as one of many examples.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    The sharp end of the criminal justice system does tend to rather wear down its workers into a very cynical view of humanity.

    It isn't a very representative sample though, and there are also some very people coming out of very unpromising backgrounds and making things out of their lives. Angela Rayner is perhaps the best example, even if not everyone's cup of tea. Expressing her anger at social inequality first through Trade Union activity, then politics.

    Anger is a powerful emotion, but it isn't a single emotion. There is the anger that drives violent retribution, but also righteous anger where someone is spurred to activism. Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple for example.
    Yet imagine how Christ would be described on PB if he did that today.
    Rishi Sunak would wheel his podium out, delcare him an enemy of British values and an extremist, and task Michael Gove with suppressing his speech, whilst his free-speech Czar grins inanely and does nothing.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    The sharp end of the criminal justice system does tend to rather wear down its workers into a very cynical view of humanity.

    It isn't a very representative sample though, and there are also some very people coming out of very unpromising backgrounds and making things out of their lives. Angela Rayner is perhaps the best example, even if not everyone's cup of tea. Expressing her anger at social inequality first through Trade Union activity, then politics.

    Anger is a powerful emotion, but it isn't a single emotion. There is the anger that drives violent retribution, but also righteous anger where someone is spurred to activism. Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple for example.
    Yet imagine how Christ would be described on PB if he did that today.
    Rishi Sunak would wheel his podium out, delcare him an enemy of British values and an extremist, and task Michael Gove with suppressing his speech, whilst his free-speech Czar grins inanely and does nothing.
    Michael Gove is the government's crack responder.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,197

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    Fascinating header. I wonder if we can extrapolate the guilt/shame idea out to whole groups or even nations.

    If it extends to groups it would be as a metaphor. Groups as such don't have feelings or senses, only individuals can have those feelings.

    Your traditional torch waving, pitchfork wielding mob (a phenomenon that shows no signs of disappearing) could be said to be unified in a feeling, unattractive as it is.
    Ok, many of them do perhaps feel individual anger or whatever from mutual contagion, so yes the individuals in the group experience a common emotion. But an "angry mob" is angry because many in that group feel like that. I don't think an angry mob can be comprised of calm and rational members.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047
    edited May 11
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Eurovision: Switzerland has been backed this morning and is vying for second favouritism with a drifting Israel. Croatia is odds-on (evens with Skybet). Any other country can be backed at 20s or more.

    Switzerland is a great song , Israel in any other year would probably win.
    The Israeli song is generic nothingness. I don’t see why it would win any year. Georgia’s “Firefighter” is in a similar style but does it better.
    We don't know yet what happened at the rehearsal, but the Netherlands may well become the repository for pro-Palestinian votes if allowed to be shown in the final tonight. Looks value to me at 5.7 for top 5 and 50 the win on BFX. Its the best song too.

    The order is problematic with Netherlands on immediately before Israel.
    Bunch of sad losers because Israeli song is far better than their crap
    PS: luckily I have managed to avoid all the rubbish and not heard one note of any of the crap Eurovision mince.
    If you haven't heard any of them how do you know that Europapa is crap?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,047
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    A thought provoking header for a Saturday morning.

    I like the idea of the difference between guilt and shame. The problem I see in the real world is that the vast majority of nasty/wicked/selfish deeds are never punished. The correlation therefore breaks down.

    All too often in my job I see bewildered accused in the dock not really understanding what they have done wrong or why they are being held to account. Often, this is because this happened to them and they don't know any better. At least equally often, however, this is because they have never developed the moral or ethical compass that allows them to see that the consequences for their victims are as important or more important than the benefit for themselves.

    Religious teaching used to fill this gap to some extent. The story of the Good Samaritan is one of Jesus's most important parables. He was teaching his followers to care. How do we teach this in a largely agnostic or atheist society? Like James, I think that the answer must come in the home from engaged, compassionate parents who understand what they are doing and what the real lessons are.

    The sharp end of the criminal justice system does tend to rather wear down its workers into a very cynical view of humanity.

    It isn't a very representative sample though, and there are also some very people coming out of very unpromising backgrounds and making things out of their lives. Angela Rayner is perhaps the best example, even if not everyone's cup of tea. Expressing her anger at social inequality first through Trade Union activity, then politics.

    Anger is a powerful emotion, but it isn't a single emotion. There is the anger that drives violent retribution, but also righteous anger where someone is spurred to activism. Jesus overturning the tables of the money changers in the temple for example.
    Yet imagine how Christ would be described on PB if he did that today.
    Rishi Sunak would wheel his podium out, delcare him an enemy of British values and an extremist, and task Michael Gove with suppressing his speech, whilst his free-speech Czar grins inanely and does nothing.
    Michael Gove is the government's crack responder.
    He's no dope.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,275
    ydoethur said:

    Starmer is literally worse than Hitler.

    Labour’s VAT plans blamed for fall in private school entries

    Enrolments are expected to drop even further this September as parents are deterred by higher fees, which could rise by up to 20%


    The number of children joining private schools has dropped by the largest proportion in more than a decade, new figures reveal.

    Enrolments at independent schools this academic year have fallen by 2.7 per cent, according to a report by the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the largest annual drop since it began collecting data on new starters in 2011.

    The body, which represents almost 1,400 private schools, said Labour’s pledge to remove the VAT exemption for fees deterred parents from committing to private education this year and predicted numbers would drop further this autumn. Experts say the policy could lead some schools to close.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-school-students-fees-closing-down-labour-vat-plans-06ndtdr9q

    Couple of other points to make:

    1) Quite a number of private schools are *already* hiking fees in anticipation of a VAT/business rate increase to build up a war chest to cushion future shocks;

    2) They are also hiking fees to deal with rapidly increasing costs, particularly fuel but also staffing and insurance, especially vehicle insurance;

    3) They are also not immune to the collapsing numbers of children actually being born. Indeed, as those demographics where the birth rate is declining most slowly tend also to be the poorest, they're being hit harder than anyone else.

    However, on the specifics of VAT and business rates for those schools (actually a minority, but including most private schools that have secondary aged children) there are some key issues.

    It doesn't affect Eton, Winchester, Wellington, Roedean, CLC, Clifton, Westminster etc. Their parents are (a) rich enough to afford VAT and (b) mostly live overseas anyway and you would be surprised* at the tricks overseas owners can get up to to avoid taxes and charges. There is one private school in Staffs that hasn't paid a penny of tax in ten years despite making vast profits because its owners in Shanghai never actually send the fees over from China. They also have a wider pool of recruits to draw on. Finally, they have literally billions in endowments (ironically, several are so rich they have no need to charge fees if they don't wish to).

    So extra taxes and charges will do no harm to those parts that not only entrench inequality but turn out students brilliant at passing exams and utterly convinced of their own intellectual superiority but actually rather intellectually lazy, bad at understanding complex problems and too full of themselves to learn new stuff.

    But it will be a killer for small private day schools, which are actually by far the most useful and least damaging of the private school sector. I am dubious as to how many will survive the next five years even with the skyrocketing number of EHCPs which the state sector simply can't cope with.

    This, therefore, is a policy set to do the opposite of what is intended. I therefore suggest it is a bad policy.

    *apart from TSE obviously as it's his job.
    Hunch: it'll be 5% VAT, with a claim it will eventually be 20%, but it won't.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    My current bag book is "Cameron at 10"[1]. It's saddening. The problem is not whether he's good or bad, it's that he's continually firefighting. The Coalition, inability to achieve foreign policy goals via warfare, Lansley's Health reforms, Gove's Education reforms, the EU, it's just staggering from crisis to crisis. He comes across as a good man with good ideas continually struggling thru ordeals. If he had won the EU ref, it is interesting to think what he could have done with a clear field. I doubt if I'd've agreed with that course but it would be interesting.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/cameron-at-10/anthony-seldon/peter-snowdon/9780007575534
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226
    edited May 11
    viewcode said:

    I have a sneaking regard for the older, Christian (usually Anglican) conservatives like Peter Hitchens. I genuinely don't agree with them (sometimes vehemently), but I like listening to them because they know how to give structured lectures instead of "content". In that vein, here's David Starkey.

    "Revolution and Restoration", Dr David Starkey, New Culture Forum 2024 Conference, YouTube, 54mins, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVa27KpH--U

    (it's too long for a quick AI summary, apologies)

    "...one of the things we have to have confidence about, finally (and again there's a logical reason for this if I am right) [is] that essentially freedom - that is the right of people to think act create make money in their own ways - is the actual foundation of human progress.

    We need to leave people to be free. They will make mistakes but finally I suppose - and I may now be exhibiting absurd naivete - they will get it right..."


    We have forgotten this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVa27KpH--U
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733

    Eabhal said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    Cameras really have improved over that period.
    The mods really ought to revisit the picture settings. Currently they are stretched so they are too large for the screen, and also fuzzy with illegible text.
    Tangentially a bit gutted that I didn’t try harder to see the aurora, but can those who did at least tell me that the photos are making it look far more impressive than the naked eye? Please!
    @bondegezou said as much on the last thread (follow the link to see the photo):-

    North London, right now... although while it looks like that thru the phone camera, to the naked eye it's really faint.
    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4777574#Comment_4777574
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226
    edited May 11
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    I have a sneaking regard for the older, Christian (usually Anglican) conservatives like Peter Hitchens. I genuinely don't agree with them (sometimes vehemently), but I like listening to them because they know how to give structured lectures instead of "content". In that vein, here's David Starkey.

    "Revolution and Restoration", Dr David Starkey, New Culture Forum 2024 Conference, YouTube, 54mins, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVa27KpH--U

    (it's too long for a quick AI summary, apologies)

    "...one of the things we have to have confidence about, finally (and again there's a logical reason for this if I am right) [is] that essentially freedom - that is the right of people to think act create make money in their own ways - is the actual foundation of human progress.

    We need to leave people to be free. They will make mistakes but finally I suppose - and I may now be exhibiting absurd naivete - they will get it right..."


    We have forgotten this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVa27KpH--U&t=2177 (approx)
    "...we've got to recover genuine courage. This seems to me there's only one virtue and again it's the whole attack (and women here will forgive me) on the classic masculine virtues, of which courage is the central one.

    Every other virtue is useless without courage. It is why I repudiate with passion the word "victim". I hate that word.

    We're turning ourselves into a supine culture of victimhood and it's contemptable and it will reap the rewards which contempt deserves. But that courage has got to say the unsayable..."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVa27KpH--U&t=2289 (approx)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    viewcode said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    My current bag book is "Cameron at 10"[1]. It's saddening. The problem is not whether he's good or bad, it's that he's continually firefighting. The Coalition, inability to achieve foreign policy goals via warfare, Lansley's Health reforms, Gove's Education reforms, the EU, it's just staggering from crisis to crisis. He comes across as a good man with good ideas continually struggling thru ordeals. If he had won the EU ref, it is interesting to think what he could have done with a clear field. I doubt if I'd've agreed with that course but it would be interesting.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/cameron-at-10/anthony-seldon/peter-snowdon/9780007575534
    The question for me, and my answer points to Cameron's incompetence and unsuitability for the top job, is how, despite spending years telling us the Conservative Opposition was preparing for government, did they come into power apparently not realising the scope and nature of Lansley's health reforms or IDS's Universal Credit?
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723

    "The first invasive brain chip that Neuralink embedded into a human brain has malfunctioned, with neuron-surveilling threads appearing to have become dislodged from the participant's brain, the company revealed in a blog post Wednesday."

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/05/elon-musks-neuralink-reports-trouble-with-first-human-brain-chip/

    The key words are "the company revealed".

    It's a bit like when a tightrope walker slips, to show the audience how difficult their act is, and how they really are dicing with death.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,733
    Braverman is bonkers & Priti is a prat,
    Gove is off his head & Boris is a tw*t,
    Moggsy's out of touch & Rishi is so weak,
    Dowden is a weirdo & Shappsy is a freak,
    It's time for them to go, so everybody shout,
    Bugger off, leave us be, pack your bags...GET OUT!

    https://twitter.com/Wakethefitup/status/1788613121340260533

    The first line perhaps dates it a bit; this was amongst the replies:-

    To quote a favourite line from Saki: Longfellow at his best wrote nothing like that.
    https://twitter.com/deiradiotes/status/1788931830323789970
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,973
    ......and Netanyahu says 'don't trust the Gentiles'.

    Not going down too well in the US by all accounts
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,050
    Mr. Roger, it's remarkable that Netanyahu is managing to antagonise the US.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,965
    Interesting and thought provoking header, thanks James
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635
    edited May 11
    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    Starmer is literally worse than Hitler.

    Labour’s VAT plans blamed for fall in private school entries

    Enrolments are expected to drop even further this September as parents are deterred by higher fees, which could rise by up to 20%


    The number of children joining private schools has dropped by the largest proportion in more than a decade, new figures reveal.

    Enrolments at independent schools this academic year have fallen by 2.7 per cent, according to a report by the Independent Schools Council (ISC), the largest annual drop since it began collecting data on new starters in 2011.

    The body, which represents almost 1,400 private schools, said Labour’s pledge to remove the VAT exemption for fees deterred parents from committing to private education this year and predicted numbers would drop further this autumn. Experts say the policy could lead some schools to close.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/private-school-students-fees-closing-down-labour-vat-plans-06ndtdr9q

    Couple of other points to make:

    1) Quite a number of private schools are *already* hiking fees in anticipation of a VAT/business rate increase to build up a war chest to cushion future shocks;

    2) They are also hiking fees to deal with rapidly increasing costs, particularly fuel but also staffing and insurance, especially vehicle insurance;

    3) They are also not immune to the collapsing numbers of children actually being born. Indeed, as those demographics where the birth rate is declining most slowly tend also to be the poorest, they're being hit harder than anyone else.

    However, on the specifics of VAT and business rates for those schools (actually a minority, but including most private schools that have secondary aged children) there are some key issues.

    It doesn't affect Eton, Winchester, Wellington, Roedean, CLC, Clifton, Westminster etc. Their parents are (a) rich enough to afford VAT and (b) mostly live overseas anyway and you would be surprised* at the tricks overseas owners can get up to to avoid taxes and charges. There is one private school in Staffs that hasn't paid a penny of tax in ten years despite making vast profits because its owners in Shanghai never actually send the fees over from China. They also have a wider pool of recruits to draw on. Finally, they have literally billions in endowments (ironically, several are so rich they have no need to charge fees if they don't wish to).

    So extra taxes and charges will do no harm to those parts that not only entrench inequality but turn out students brilliant at passing exams and utterly convinced of their own intellectual superiority but actually rather intellectually lazy, bad at understanding complex problems and too full of themselves to learn new stuff.

    But it will be a killer for small private day schools, which are actually by far the most useful and least damaging of the private school sector. I am dubious as to how many will survive the next five years even with the skyrocketing number of EHCPs which the state sector simply can't cope with.

    This, therefore, is a policy set to do the opposite of what is intended. I therefore suggest it is a bad policy.

    *apart from TSE obviously as it's his job.
    Hunch: it'll be 5% VAT, with a claim it will eventually be 20%, but it won't.
    Well, that would help mitigate some of the worst effects.

    But if we really want to sort out the issues with Eton, Roedean etc, disendowment is going to be needed.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,164

    viewcode said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    My current bag book is "Cameron at 10"[1]. It's saddening. The problem is not whether he's good or bad, it's that he's continually firefighting. The Coalition, inability to achieve foreign policy goals via warfare, Lansley's Health reforms, Gove's Education reforms, the EU, it's just staggering from crisis to crisis. He comes across as a good man with good ideas continually struggling thru ordeals. If he had won the EU ref, it is interesting to think what he could have done with a clear field. I doubt if I'd've agreed with that course but it would be interesting.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/cameron-at-10/anthony-seldon/peter-snowdon/9780007575534
    The question for me, and my answer points to Cameron's incompetence and unsuitability for the top job, is how, despite spending years telling us the Conservative Opposition was preparing for government, did they come into power apparently not realising the scope and nature of Lansley's health reforms or IDS's Universal Credit?
    IIRC Lansley produced his health plans after, he said, consulting with a representative group of GPs. He sold the scheme by claiming that it was what the doctors wanted; nobody else did, but that didn’t matter; it was something to ‘bring the health service up-to-date, in line with what the experts want!’.
    It was a ready to roll plan and simply required Parliamentary approval; the government could be seen to be doing something!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635

    Mr. Roger, it's remarkable that Netanyahu is managing to antagonise the US.

    Not really. It kind of goes with his personality.

    Netanyahu is the sort of man who could start a fight in an empty room and then blame the light fitments.

    Even when he's not provoked he's still an absolute twat.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162
    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    Fascinating header. I wonder if we can extrapolate the guilt/shame idea out to whole groups or even nations.

    If it extends to groups it would be as a metaphor. Groups as such don't have feelings or senses, only individuals can have those feelings.

    Although there is a theory that nation states can have an “original sin” that colours their actions for generations and centuries:

    Slavery (US), Ireland (UK), Holocaust (Germany) etc
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,162
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    Cameras really have improved over that period.
    The mods really ought to revisit the picture settings. Currently they are stretched so they are too large for the screen, and also fuzzy with illegible text.
    A picture ban would be a positive. Save it for Instagram.
    I enjoy the pictures.

    You have an unbelievably authoritarian mindset immediately reaching for a ban of things that you personally don’t like
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,226

    viewcode said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    My current bag book is "Cameron at 10"[1]. It's saddening. The problem is not whether he's good or bad, it's that he's continually firefighting. The Coalition, inability to achieve foreign policy goals via warfare, Lansley's Health reforms, Gove's Education reforms, the EU, it's just staggering from crisis to crisis. He comes across as a good man with good ideas continually struggling thru ordeals. If he had won the EU ref, it is interesting to think what he could have done with a clear field. I doubt if I'd've agreed with that course but it would be interesting.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/cameron-at-10/anthony-seldon/peter-snowdon/9780007575534
    The question for me, and my answer points to Cameron's incompetence and unsuitability for the top job, is how, despite spending years telling us the Conservative Opposition was preparing for government, did they come into power apparently not realising the scope and nature of Lansley's health reforms or IDS's Universal Credit?
    It's a good point, and one that the book alludes to, if not vehemently. His view of the role as a cheerleader (whilst his subordinates got on with the job unsupervised) simply fell apart. You need to be aware of what the little bastards are doing, and he didn't. So yes, we both agree that he was incompetent.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,635

    viewcode said:

    David Cameron took office 14 years ago today.


    My current bag book is "Cameron at 10"[1]. It's saddening. The problem is not whether he's good or bad, it's that he's continually firefighting. The Coalition, inability to achieve foreign policy goals via warfare, Lansley's Health reforms, Gove's Education reforms, the EU, it's just staggering from crisis to crisis. He comes across as a good man with good ideas continually struggling thru ordeals. If he had won the EU ref, it is interesting to think what he could have done with a clear field. I doubt if I'd've agreed with that course but it would be interesting.

    [1] https://www.waterstones.com/book/cameron-at-10/anthony-seldon/peter-snowdon/9780007575534
    The question for me, and my answer points to Cameron's incompetence and unsuitability for the top job, is how, despite spending years telling us the Conservative Opposition was preparing for government, did they come into power apparently not realising the scope and nature of Lansley's health reforms or IDS's Universal Credit?
    You forgot Gove's education reforms.

    I envy you...
Sign In or Register to comment.