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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    edited March 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This is a 2/7 bet to nothing for the sake of a PR stunt by Paddy. #Paddypower is going through the roof on Twitter. Their upside is the controversy and subsequent publicity.

    Not sure any organisation, let alone a publically listed bookmaker should be doing stunts or PR on this. Whilst I accept Paddypower like to be edgy and humerous (see their annual report regarding Miley Cyrus for instance) , this is just bad form imo
    They can pull back and say they 'might have got it wrong' though - And then everyone says "Paddy being Paddy"

    And there is quite a big horse racing event coming up that attracts a fair few quid in wagers...

    If you wanted to get some publicity as a bookie now is the time to do it.
    Judging by their last Cheltenham book I would have thought PP would want to avoid taking any bets on it
    2-1 Irving Supreme Novices - A poor bet you may say. Money back 2nd, 3rd or 4th though which means it is value I reckon.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Mr. G, you should eat some Red Leicester. Sweet dreams are made of cheese.

    MD, I do enjoy Red Leicester but prefer my cheese stronger in most cases.

    Mr. G, you should eat some Red Leicester. Sweet dreams are made of cheese.

    Really? And I was brought up to believe that eating cheese to close to bed-time is a source of nightmares (see PG Wodehouse and the dangers of a lobster au gratin supper).

    Anyway, Red Leicester may be a fine cheese, but the cheese of the month if not the year must be Brighton Blue. Herself gave me some the other night and it is wonderful, a very creamy, tangy taste but mellow. Of course it doesn't come from Brighton but from those awfully nice and very clever people at the High Weald Dairy at Horsted Keynes. You can buy it and their other products on line here:

    http://www.highwealddairy.co.uk/index.php?webpage=product_detail.php&product_id=172755&cID=12203

    If you like good cheese you will love Brighton Blue.

    P.S. Their sheep milk cheese is pretty damn good too. They are doing a cheese board selection offer for twenty quid, which must be worth a go.

    P.P.S. You lot being a suspicious bunch I suppose I ought to say I have no interest in the producers, I am jut trying to pass on a discovery.

    P.P.P.S. Morris Dancer, a Yorkshireman, advocating eating Leicester cheese is rather sad but ought to tell us something about the state of Wensleydale Cheese in these modern times.
    Some nice looking cheeses there Hurst, I shall give it a try
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    AveryLP said:

    Regardless of their origin, Putin argues that they are operating on the orders of the ARC government and through its military line of command.

    I don't know if this is true but I've read that only the Ukrainian parliament can authorise the request for military intervention by a foreign power, so neither ARC or Yanukovych in exile has the authority to invite Russian polite people to defend Crimea from fascism. In the case of Yanukovych the request wasn't even made until two days after the suspiciously well armed Crimean patriots started their patrols.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    And fruit cake, Mr. DaemonBarber, don't forget fruitcake. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that the combination of a slice of rich, moist fruitcake accompanied by a fine English cheese (preferably one of the crumbly ones) and a glass of whisky (or whiskey, if you prefer it) is as close to the proof of the existence of God as one can get.

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
    Quite so, Mr. B, but on the existence of the deity consider also finings (originally dried fish guts) added to beer to make it clear. How did that come about? Fred and Barney sitting around the fire having a glass or two and one says, "This beer is pretty good but but it would upset my bowels less if was clear" and the other says, "Good point, I just happen to have here some dried fish guts, lets throw them in the barrel and see if that makes the beer clear" .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This is a 2/7 bet to nothing for the sake of a PR stunt by Paddy. #Paddypower is going through the roof on Twitter. Their upside is the controversy and subsequent publicity.

    Not sure any organisation, let alone a publically listed bookmaker should be doing stunts or PR on this. Whilst I accept Paddypower like to be edgy and humerous (see their annual report regarding Miley Cyrus for instance) , this is just bad form imo
    They can pull back and say they 'might have got it wrong' though - And then everyone says "Paddy being Paddy"

    And there is quite a big horse racing event coming up that attracts a fair few quid in wagers...

    If you wanted to get some publicity as a bookie now is the time to do it.
    Judging by their last Cheltenham book I would have thought PP would want to avoid taking any bets on it. How many Irish winners were they?
    Not sure but I think Willie Mullins is going to clean up this time.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    glw said:

    AveryLP said:

    Regardless of their origin, Putin argues that they are operating on the orders of the ARC government and through its military line of command.

    I don't know if this is true but I've read that only the Ukrainian parliament can authorise the request for military intervention by a foreign power, so neither ARC or Yanukovych in exile has the authority to invite Russian polite people to defend Crimea from fascism. In the case of Yanukovych the request wasn't even made until two days after the suspiciously well armed Crimean patriots started their patrols.
    It is all a game of trying to shift debate away from the main issue and principle to subsidiary matters.

    So time is spent/wasted arguing whether the Kiev government is legally constituted and who is still President. Argue the boilerplate not the principal clauses.

    Although other powers use the same technique it is a favoured negotiating method of the Russians.

    But we shouldn't get too high on our moral horse: the pretexts used by the West to justify their own dubiously legal interventions are just as artificial. As Putin and Russian diplomats constantly remind us.

    On the status of Yanukovych as President, Russia called a UNSC meeting yesterday and copied the letter received from "the President of the Republic of Ukraine" to the President of the Russian Federation requesting Russian military assistance in the Ukraine for the purpose of re-establishing law and order and legal government.

    What is needed is an international court who can hear conflicting claims and issue interim injunctions which are binding on both sides. They may not be observed but at least the interim legal position would be clear.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    glw said:

    AveryLP said:

    Regardless of their origin, Putin argues that they are operating on the orders of the ARC government and through its military line of command.

    I don't know if this is true but I've read that only the Ukrainian parliament can authorise the request for military intervention by a foreign power, so neither ARC or Yanukovych in exile has the authority to invite Russian polite people to defend Crimea from fascism. In the case of Yanukovych the request wasn't even made until two days after the suspiciously well armed Crimean patriots started their patrols.
    Crimea is weirder than that. It's an autonomous republic within Ukraine plus there's an agreement tied up with the naval base - a bit like Quantanomo in Cuba. Impossible to say for sure but seems to me Putin has played this so it looks as much like an invasion as possible without actually doing anything at all - which is pretty funny given the reaction.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    @HurstLlama - Perhaps it went something like this:

    Fred: "Jolly good batch of beer. Look, it's come out clear, not cloudy like it usually is. Tastes much better too"

    Barney: "Fred, I have something I have to tell you. You know those bits of old rotten fish you told me to clear up..."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited March 2014

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    And fruit cake, Mr. DaemonBarber, don't forget fruitcake. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that the combination of a slice of rich, moist fruitcake accompanied by a fine English cheese (preferably one of the crumbly ones) and a glass of whisky (or whiskey, if you prefer it) is as close to the proof of the existence of God as one can get.

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
    Quite so, Mr. B, but on the existence of the deity consider also finings (originally dried fish guts) added to beer to make it clear. How did that come about? Fred and Barney sitting around the fire having a glass or two and one says, "This beer is pretty good but but it would upset my bowels less if was clear" and the other says, "Good point, I just happen to have here some dried fish guts, lets throw them in the barrel and see if that makes the beer clear" .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?
    That is as any fule kno a restatement of the classic Paleyan argument from design. And the riposte is the same, the Darwinian method of evolution by natural selection, allied to Richard Dawkins's later addition of memes: presumably those who tried undried tortoise guts did not survive so well, or at least the relevant meme didn't ... Having said that, would not any proteinaceous material such as egg white do? and bear in mind that Fred and Barney would have eaten, or be wearing, the rest of the fish, so that would pretty much leave the guts ...



  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    Tread softly because you tread on his dreams.
    I am anything but a dreamer
    malc - why do you think this unseen groundswell for YES had remained hidden from mainstream pollsters - cock up or conspiracy ?

    Surely a native Scottish pollster wouldn't suffer such bias ?
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited March 2014
    Carnyx said:

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    And fruit cake, Mr. DaemonBarber, don't forget fruitcake. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that the combination of a slice of rich, moist fruitcake accompanied by a fine English cheese (preferably one of the crumbly ones) and a glass of whisky (or whiskey, if you prefer it) is as close to the proof of the existence of God as one can get.

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
    Quite so, Mr. B, but on the existence of the deity consider also finings (originally dried fish guts) added to beer to make it clear. How did that come about? Fred and Barney sitting around the fire having a glass or two and one says, "This beer is pretty good but but it would upset my bowels less if was clear" and the other says, "Good point, I just happen to have here some dried fish guts, lets throw them in the barrel and see if that makes the beer clear" .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?
    That is as any fule kno a restatement of the classic Paleyan argument from design. And the riposte is the same, the Darwinian method of evolution by natural selection, allied to Richard Dawkins's later addition of memes: presumably those who tried undried tortoise guts did not survive so well, or at least the relevant meme didn't ... Having said that, would not any proteinaceous material such as egg white do? and bear in mind that Fred and Barney would have eaten, or be wearing, the rest of the fish, so that would pretty much leave the guts ...




    Quite...
    Similar issues abound with cheese... Oops i've just spilt the contents of this cow's stomach into the butter churn and the milk has kinda gone all lumpy! I've got it! I'll take the lumps and squeeze them dry, pack them in a wooden box and store them under pressure in a cold dry place for a month or two... that'll do the trick.

    Just not possible without divine intervention. I may have to hand back my copy of The God Delusion.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    MrJones said:

    Crimea is weirder than that. It's an autonomous republic within Ukraine plus there's an agreement tied up with the naval base - a bit like Quantanomo in Cuba. Impossible to say for sure but seems to me Putin has played this so it looks as much like an invasion as possible without actually doing anything at all - which is pretty funny given the reaction.

    The elastic band of deniability has been stretched to the very limit. Me, I'm applying the duck test, and this one is quacking very loudly.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "Some nice looking cheeses there Hurst, I shall give it a try"

    I hope you do, Mr. G., and I should be pleased to receive any feedback you can always get me on the username at gmail.com.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2014

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    And fruit cake, Mr. DaemonBarber, don't forget fruitcake. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that the combination of a slice of rich, moist fruitcake accompanied by a fine English cheese (preferably one of the crumbly ones) and a glass of whisky (or whiskey, if you prefer it) is as close to the proof of the existence of God as one can get.

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
    Quite so, Mr. B, but on the existence of the deity consider also finings (originally dried fish guts) added to beer to make it clear. How did that come about? Fred and Barney sitting around the fire having a glass or two and one says, "This beer is pretty good but but it would upset my bowels less if was clear" and the other says, "Good point, I just happen to have here some dried fish guts, lets throw them in the barrel and see if that makes the beer clear" .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?
    I believe isinglass (dried and powered swim bladders) are still used in beer manufacturing.

    EDIT: Yup, mostly cask ales, but also (surprisingly) Guinness.
    http://www.barnivore.com/beer/26/Guinness
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410
    http://www.playdiplomacy.com/ Game 77399 still needs a final participant ! PB Mark 2.

    Very simple rules, ww.youtube.com/watch?v=i0RLSs7IL9I <-
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    edited March 2014
    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    Tread softly because you tread on his dreams.
    I am anything but a dreamer
    malc - why do you think this unseen groundswell for YES had remained hidden from mainstream pollsters - cock up or conspiracy ?

    Surely a native Scottish pollster wouldn't suffer such bias ?
    History shows us they are often wrong, their weightings are garbage on Scotland. The last 6 polls have all been towards YES and we have 6 months and the real campaign to come.
    I am far from unhappy with the way things are going and from what I see and hear it does not match the polls. Simple as that, it may be all that activity does not turn out to be votes but when you see the difference in the activity and breadth of what is going on it is hard to see NO holding on.

    PS : I also expect lots of labour to defect to YES as they get ever more Tory like going through the summer
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Carnyx said:


    .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?

    That is as any fule kno a restatement of the classic Paleyan argument from design. And the riposte is the same, the Darwinian method of evolution by natural selection, allied to Richard Dawkins's later addition of memes: presumably those who tried undried tortoise guts did not survive so well, or at least the relevant meme didn't ... Having said that, would not any proteinaceous material such as egg white do? and bear in mind that Fred and Barney would have eaten, or be wearing, the rest of the fish, so that would pretty much leave the guts ...




    Quite...
    Similar issues abound with cheese... Oops i've just spilt the contents of this cow's stomach into the butter churn and the milk has kinda gone all lumpy! I've got it! I'll take the lumps and squeeze them dry, pack them in a wooden box and store them under pressure in a cold dry place for a month or two... that'll do the trick.

    Just not possible without divine intervention. I may have to hand back my copy of The God Delusion.
    I'm not so sure. The classic Darwinian strategy is to break the sequence down. In this case, cream cheese/crowdie/curds is an acceptable intermediate form as it is so "obviously" press-able to get the whey out to drink and the curds to keep for a bit longer with salt or potash. So -

    Nomadic herder eats calf for dinner, finds he quite likes the stomach contents [I believe quite a treat from some herbivorous mammals, not all!], tries making his own, doesn't work, light dawns and he adds a bit of stomach ...

    Or

    2. Nomadic herder has too much milk to drink before goes off to next site, puts milk in nearest receptacle which is a calf stomach in those days before Lakeland was available at every rivercrossing ...

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2014

    Carnyx said:

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
    Quite so, Mr. B, but on the existence of the deity consider also finings (originally dried fish guts) added to beer to make it clear. How did that come about? Fred and Barney sitting around the fire having a glass or two and one says, "This beer is pretty good but but it would upset my bowels less if was clear" and the other says, "Good point, I just happen to have here some dried fish guts, lets throw them in the barrel and see if that makes the beer clear" .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?
    That is as any fule kno a restatement of the classic Paleyan argument from design. And the riposte is the same, the Darwinian method of evolution by natural selection, allied to Richard Dawkins's later addition of memes: presumably those who tried undried tortoise guts did not survive so well, or at least the relevant meme didn't ... Having said that, would not any proteinaceous material such as egg white do? and bear in mind that Fred and Barney would have eaten, or be wearing, the rest of the fish, so that would pretty much leave the guts ...




    Quite...
    Similar issues abound with cheese... Oops i've just spilt the contents of this cow's stomach into the butter churn and the milk has kinda gone all lumpy! I've got it! I'll take the lumps and squeeze them dry, pack them in a wooden box and store them under pressure in a cold dry place for a month or two... that'll do the trick.

    Just not possible without divine intervention. I may have to hand back my copy of The God Delusion.
    Ray Comfort and his "bananas are an atheist's worst nightmare" argument is the best of the best on that front.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igui2YoHXs8 [sh1tty sound, but I couldn't find a better version]

    I originally assumed this was a spoof, but Mr Comfort is apparently a well-known ID proponent in the US of A. I'd like to hear his explanation for pineapples.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    It should be added that the current arrears in payments from the Ukraine to Russia total $1.5 billion.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    glw said:

    MrJones said:

    Crimea is weirder than that. It's an autonomous republic within Ukraine plus there's an agreement tied up with the naval base - a bit like Quantanomo in Cuba. Impossible to say for sure but seems to me Putin has played this so it looks as much like an invasion as possible without actually doing anything at all - which is pretty funny given the reaction.

    The elastic band of deniability has been stretched to the very limit. Me, I'm applying the duck test, and this one is quacking very loudly.
    Sure, i'm not saying it's not deliberate testing the waters - just funny.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    Anorak said:

    Carnyx said:

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
    Quite so, Mr. B, but on the existence of the deity consider also finings (originally dried fish guts) added to beer to make it clear. How did that come about? Fred and Barney sitting around the fire having a glass or two and one says, "This beer is pretty good but but it would upset my bowels less if was clear" and the other says, "Good point, I just happen to have here some dried fish guts, lets throw them in the barrel and see if that makes the beer clear" .

    How without divine intervention did our ancestors come up with the idea of adding dried fish guts to beer?
    That is as any fule kno a restatement of the classic Paleyan argument from design. And the riposte is the same, the Darwinian method of evolution by natural selection, allied to Richard Dawkins's later addition of memes: presumably those who tried undried tortoise guts did not survive so well, or at least the relevant meme didn't ... Having said that, would not any proteinaceous material such as egg white do? and bear in mind that Fred and Barney would have eaten, or be wearing, the rest of the fish, so that would pretty much leave the guts ...




    Quite...
    Similar issues abound with cheese... Oops i've just spilt the contents of this cow's stomach into the butter churn and the milk has kinda gone all lumpy! I've got it! I'll take the lumps and squeeze them dry, pack them in a wooden box and store them under pressure in a cold dry place for a month or two... that'll do the trick.

    Just not possible without divine intervention. I may have to hand back my copy of The God Delusion.
    Ray Comfort and his "bananas are an atheist's worst nightmare" argument is the best of the best on that front.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igui2YoHXs8 [sh1tty sound, but I couldn't find a better version]

    I originally assumed this was a spoof, but Mr Comfort is apparently a well-known ID proponent in the US of A. I'd like to hear his explanation for pineapples.
    I like that!!


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. Pulpstar, it seems frightfully modern. What sort of time would be required?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RodCrosby said:

    AndyJS said:

    In 1983 the Tories were defending a notional majority of 3,634 votes in the new seat of Crewe & Nantwich but lost it by 290 to the sitting MP for Crewe Gwyneth Dunwoody. The Conservative candidate was Patrick Rock:

    http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge83/i06.htm

    And as I pointed out last night, he went on to lose the Tory-held Portsmouth South to Hancock in the '84 by-election.

    I remember the extraordinary scenes afterwards where he refused to give an interview and was whisked away in a car after the count...

    He must be one of but a few individuals who have lost two seats in the space of 12 months!

    Patrick Gordon-Walker was another...
    Times report on Portsmouth South by-election, from Friday June 15th 1984:

    “SDP topples Tory in Portsmouth by-election coup
    By Julian Haviland, Political Editor

    The Social Democrat and Liberal Alliance yesterday seized the parliamentary seat of Portsmouth South in a by-election coup which put the Government’s setbacks in yesterday’s European elections into the shade.
    The result, announced in the small hours of today after a recount, confounded alike observers, pollsters and the participants who, until the ballot boxes were opened, all believed that the Conservatives had mounted a successful defence.
    The overturning of the Conservatives 12,335, or 25 per cent, majority by the Social Democrat victor, Mr Mike Hancock, is the first by-election gain by any party in the six contests of the present Parliament.
    In the other five, Alliance candidates came second each time, but ran the defending party close only once, when they came within 552 votes of unseating the Conservatives at Penrith last July.
    The result is the Alliance’s first spectacular success since the Bermondsey victory over a demoralized Labour party in February of last year.
    It is the more remarkable because of several factors: the absence of a strong Liberal base in Portsmouth; the speed with which the Government moved the writ so as to prevent the SDP challengers from establishing themselves; and the inevitable and deliberate stretching of the Alliance parties’ relatively slender resources in the countrywide demands of the European campaign."
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Continued:

    "On the other hand, the Alliance parties made intense efforts in Portsmouth, with all their chiefs taking part in the campaign and Dr David Owen, the SDP leader, paying no fewer than five visits.
    Labour made equally intense efforts, and their failure yet again to take second place will dampen their pleasure at their certain gains in the European contest.
    In last year’s general election Labour came second in 125 seats which were won by the Conservatives, while Alliance candidates came second in 265 such seats. To prove its claim that it is the real opposition to the Government, and has a chance of becoming the government itself in 1988, Labour must start changing this picture soon.
    In fact Labour, whose candidate, Mrs Sally Thomas, campaigned valiantly, did much to undermine the Conservative, Mr Patrick Rock, with a potent election squib. They claimed that Portsmouth was likely to be a target for the Government’s rate-capping legislation, along with such Labour-controlled “overspenders” as Liverpool and Sheffield.
    The Government, shamefaced and evasive, failed to defuse it. But a more decided influence on the Conservatives who deserted seems to have been a general anxiety about employment, stimulated by the continuing rundown at the dockyard, and persisting doubts about Government claims that the economy is on the mend.
    Mr Hancock said: “I am extremely proud and privileged to have the chance to represent the people of Portsmouth in Westminster”. Asked about the reverse of the massive 12,000 Conservative majority, he replied: “Amazing, isn’t it.””"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2014

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
    I believe he's referring to a vexillological matter.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
    The red white and blue is a fitting tribute to all balanced unions, Comrade.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Any news on the Tory cabinet smackdown today, or has peace broken out?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
    The red white and blue is a fitting tribute to all balanced unions, Comrade.
    Um, I chose it because I just thought it looked nice, Comrade!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    Mr. Pulpstar, it seems frightfully modern. What sort of time would be required?

    You can play it on as little or as much time as you want - browsing the forums being very blunt in your messages can be a time saver and achieve results.

    "I'm moving Black Sea, you can either bounce me or lump it" gets straight to the point in a message ;)

    Anyone who posts on here clearly has the time.

    Join up Mr Morris Dancer !

    The time limits on that game are 3 days/2 days/2 days
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
    The red white and blue is a fitting tribute to all balanced unions, Comrade.
    Um, I chose it because I just thought it looked nice, Comrade!
    You are a shy Tory communist, Comrade.

    We all are at heart.

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Two cheese recommendations :

    Runner-up is Lincolnshire Poacher - the vintage is sublime.

    And the winner is .... drum roll .... pause for effect ....

    Connage Cheddar .... Yumtastic .... From Scotland off course .... Available online :

    http://www.connage.co.uk/Home.aspx
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Is it AndyJS who has a spreadsheet of all the marginals,if so, would he kind enough to post the link please.Its for the allocating of seats to the Hodges I will be doing.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    TGOHF said:

    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    Tread softly because you tread on his dreams.
    I am anything but a dreamer
    malc - why do you think this unseen groundswell for YES had remained hidden from mainstream pollsters - cock up or conspiracy ?

    Surely a native Scottish pollster wouldn't suffer such bias ?
    One might ask you a similar question @TGOHF, the difference is you this morning appeared to place your trust in one Geo Osborne to deliver a Tory victory. At least @MalcolmG has Salmond as his spearhead
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,149
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
    The red white and blue is a fitting tribute to all balanced unions, Comrade.
    And even the unbalanced ones, evidently.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    How peculiar. I appear to already have an account...

    What's the password?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Any news on the Tory cabinet smackdown today, or has peace broken out?

    Hardman confirmed it took place:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel-hardman/2014/03/downing-street-confirms-coffee-house-scoop-on-cabinet-row/

    But I don't think we've had the Lib Dem's perspective yet.....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    @JackW - can't be having that. The finest, as any fule no, is Montgomery Cheddar. However, Kent and Sussex are putting up some really serious competition for the top spot. Look out for:

    - Winterdale Shaw, from Wrotham in Kent. A very serious Cheddar-style cheese, not as sharp as the great Montgomery but a worthy rival

    - Lord of the Hundreds, a superb hard ewes' milk cheese from Stonegate in Sussex. It ages particularly well

    Also noteworthy: Mayfield, a rich Swiss-style cheese from Five Ashes in Sussex.

    Needless to say, all the above are Claret-friendly, a crucial factor.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,410

    How peculiar. I appear to already have an account...

    What's the password?

    OGH
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Capital Economics have just issued a report on the UK economy's exposure to the external risks of the Ukrainian crisis.

    PBers will be relieved to learn that:

    As far the real economy is concerned, the UK’s exports of goods and services to Ukraine amounted to just 0.2% of the total in 2012.

    Financial linkages are also minimal, with UK banks’ exposure to Ukrainian and Russian debt standing at the "tiny" level of just 0.01% and 0.5% of their total foreign claims in the third quarter of 2013, respectively.


    Real casus belli here then.
  • AlasdairAlasdair Posts: 72
    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    It should be added that the current arrears in payments from the Ukraine to Russia total $1.5 billion.

    What about the value of assets in Crimea that Russia has annexed?
    One fully operational naval base - say 50 Billion USD
    Several cities
    Etc,..,

    Reparations payable in free gas for years.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. Pulpstar, I've joined. I imagine I'll be brutally slaughtered in the first six minutes, but there we are.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    Any news on the Tory cabinet smackdown today, or has peace broken out?

    Hardman confirmed it took place:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel-hardman/2014/03/downing-street-confirms-coffee-house-scoop-on-cabinet-row/

    But I don't think we've had the Lib Dem's perspective yet.....
    Would love to know what has brought on the Tory circular firing squad.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Any news on the Tory cabinet smackdown today, or has peace broken out?

    Hardman confirmed it took place:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/isabel-hardman/2014/03/downing-street-confirms-coffee-house-scoop-on-cabinet-row/

    But I don't think we've had the Lib Dem's perspective yet.....
    Farron has been tweet-whining about evil Tory cabinet leaks ...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    F1: Red Bull chap Helmut Marko reckons the season's two months too soon for Red Bull:
    http://www.espn.co.uk/redbull/motorsport/story/147777.html

    ESPN reckons Williams could win in Australia:
    http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/147765.html

    I'd be rather delighted if that happened.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Alasdair said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    It should be added that the current arrears in payments from the Ukraine to Russia total $1.5 billion.

    What about the value of assets in Crimea that Russia has annexed?
    One fully operational naval base - say 50 Billion USD
    Several cities
    Etc,..,

    Reparations payable in free gas for years.
    Dear Alasdair [Edit: sorry!].

    Please send your bill to me in Moscow.

    I shall get my accounts department to look at it.

    Yours in brotherhood

    Volodya

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Hello, what's this?

    Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick

    Tim Congdon has confirmed to me he's resigned as Ukip economic spokesman because of accusations of hypocrisy over proposed wind-farm deal
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:

    And now the economic war

    MOSCOW, March 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s energy company Naftogaz on Monday notified Russia’s national gas utility Gazprom that it would not be able to pay the entire sum for the Russian gas it had bought in February, a source in Gazprom told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

    Naftogaz warned about possible problems with payment for Russian gas supplies in February a week ago.

    According to Ukraine’s Minister of Energy Yuriy Prodan, Naftogaz is to pay about $400 million for gas imports in February under the contracts between Naftogaz and Gazprom.

    In December 2013, Gazprom said it would reduce the gas price for Naftogaz by 33% to $268.5 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The then gas price was $400 per 1,000 cubic meters.
    The undiscounted price for Russian gas in the first quarter of 2014 would be $378 per 1,000 cubic meters.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Gazprom CEO Alexei Miller said that Gazprom had taken a decision to cancel gas discounts for Ukraine from April 2014. “In the situation when Ukraine does not fulfill its liabilities, does not fulfill those agreements which were reached in an addendum to the contract on granting the gas price discount Gazprom decided not to extend the discount from the beginning of the next month,” Miller said.


    Oh dear.

    "Gazprom - UEFA Champions League sponsors"

    :)
    Comrade Sunilsky, your display of loyalty both in words and visuals has been noted.

    Visuals? What visuals, Comrade Chancellor?
    The red white and blue is a fitting tribute to all balanced unions, Comrade.
    Um, I chose it because I just thought it looked nice, Comrade!
    You are a shy Tory communist, Comrade.

    We all are at heart.

    I'm kinda shy, yes :)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Hello, what's this?

    Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick

    Tim Congdon has confirmed to me he's resigned as Ukip economic spokesman because of accusations of hypocrisy over proposed wind-farm deal

    Richard

    Might be something to do with this:

    In October 2010 [Tim Congdon] stood unsuccessfully for the leadership of the party [UKIP].

    Probably know's where to place his apostrophe's.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    AveryLP said:

    Hello, what's this?

    Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick

    Tim Congdon has confirmed to me he's resigned as Ukip economic spokesman because of accusations of hypocrisy over proposed wind-farm deal

    Richard

    Might be something to do with this:

    In October 2010 [Tim Congdon] stood unsuccessfully for the leadership of the party [UKIP].

    Probably know's where to place his apostrophe's.
    Comrade Chancellor! Do you think he'll join the UKraine Independence Party?

    :)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    AveryLP said:

    Hello, what's this?

    Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick

    Tim Congdon has confirmed to me he's resigned as Ukip economic spokesman because of accusations of hypocrisy over proposed wind-farm deal

    Richard

    Might be something to do with this:

    In October 2010 [Tim Congdon] stood unsuccessfully for the leadership of the party [UKIP].

    Probably know's where to place his apostrophe's.
    Comrade Chancellor! Do you think he'll join the UKraine Independence Party?

    :)
    I am afraid not, Comrade.

    Currently, to be eligible to serve in the UKraine Independence Party you must have a physiognomy compliant with the profile allocated to out-of-work advertising agents.

    Mr Congdon has a face fit for banking.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. Observer, were they laughing at the notion anyone could believe Caesar was a better general than Hannibal?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    You are a big tease, sir.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    Le Pont de la Tour, SO?

    You now need to have your bill approved by the PB 'Man of the People' Inspectorate.

    Although, given it was Boris, was probably The Blueprint Café.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    AveryLP said:

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    Le Pont de la Tour, SO?

    You now need to have your bill approved by the PB 'Man of the People' Inspectorate.

    Although, given it was Boris, was probably The Blueprint Café.

    Le Pont is a belter, @AveryLP

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    AveryLP said:

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    Le Pont de la Tour, SO?

    You now need to have your bill approved by the PB 'Man of the People' Inspectorate.

    Although, given it was Boris, was probably The Blueprint Café.

    Magdelen on Toohey Street.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    RobD said:

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    You are a big tease, sir.

    I am, I know. But it was a private conversation, even if conducted very loudly. One could not help but hear.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Magdalen is a very nice restaurant that would fit the bill.

    http://www.magdalenrestaurant.co.uk/

    The pb class warriors should note the set lunch menu prices.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    AveryLP said:

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    Le Pont de la Tour, SO?

    You now need to have your bill approved by the PB 'Man of the People' Inspectorate.

    Although, given it was Boris, was probably The Blueprint Café.

    Magdelen on Toohey Street.

    I passed that last weekend - any good?

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I see I hit the jackpot!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    antifrank said:

    Magdalen is a very nice restaurant that would fit the bill.

    http://www.magdalenrestaurant.co.uk/

    The pb class warriors should note the set lunch menu prices.

    £18.50 for three courses. I had brown crab on toast, then braised hare and then comte with rhubarb something or other. It was very tasty.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    Mr. Observer, were they laughing at the notion anyone could believe Caesar was a better general than Hannibal?

    Probably practicing Latin tongue twisters such as

    Te tero, Roma, manu nuda, date tela, latete!

    [Te te, ro ro, ma ma, nu nu, da da, te te, la la, te te]

    TSE was unable (or unwilling) to translate the text or to identify the accredited original speaker. And he had just been promoted up the PB Latin sets for answering an easier question!

    Over to you, MD.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    Given Sir Howard Davies chairs the Airports Commission I may need even fewer guesses than a Nat working out whether something is a 'Victory for Eck'!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    AveryLP said:

    That Boris Johnson fella was sharing a bottle of red wine with Howard Davies on the table next to mine at a restaurant near London Bridge this lunchtime. They got quite loud towards the end. It would be impolitic and impolite of me to say what about. But it was interesting!

    Le Pont de la Tour, SO?

    You now need to have your bill approved by the PB 'Man of the People' Inspectorate.

    Although, given it was Boris, was probably The Blueprint Café.

    Magdelen on Toohey Street.

    I passed that last weekend - any good?

    Yes indeed. The set menu was very good value.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    antifrank said:

    Magdalen is a very nice restaurant that would fit the bill.

    http://www.magdalenrestaurant.co.uk/

    The pb class warriors should note the set lunch menu prices.

    £18.50 for three courses. I had brown crab on toast, then braised hare and then comte with rhubarb something or other. It was very tasty.

    I've had a few good meals there. If I didn't have trouble passing water, I'd visit it more regularly.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. LP, I'm afraid I never did Latin at school.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034

    Mr. LP, I'm afraid I never did Latin at school.

    Here is an easy one for you: "Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis"
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    Mr. LP, I'm afraid I never did Latin at school.

    As TSE failed the original test; you are excused; and not even Ishmael volunteered an answer, I will yield:

    Te tero, Roma, manu nuda, date tela, latete!

    [Te te, ro ro, ma ma, nu nu, da da, te te, la la, te te]

    "I will destroy you, Rome, with my bare hands, give arms and hide yourself!"

    This sentence is said to be pronounced by Hannibal as he neared the gates of Rome.

    Also sometimes attributed to Alaric the Goth.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. LP, ah... I remember manu, now you mention it, from maniple (a 'handful'), which is two centuries.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    RobD said:

    Mr. LP, I'm afraid I never did Latin at school.

    Here is an easy one for you: "Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis"

    I scream, you scream, we all scream for an ice[d dessert made] of milk
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Bet we do not see the BBC shouting this for two or three days...................
    The head of one of the UK's biggest engineering firms has said that his company has no concerns over Scottish independence but has warned that anti-EU rhetoric from Westminster is damaging UK industry.

    GKN chief executive Nigel Stein told the national conference of the EEF manufacturers organisation that Scottish independence would not affect his company, but instead said the main threat to business came from the In/Out referendum pledged by David Cameron
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,034
    AveryLP said:

    RobD said:

    Mr. LP, I'm afraid I never did Latin at school.

    Here is an easy one for you: "Clamo, clamatis, omnes clamamus pro glace lactis"

    I scream, you scream, we all scream for an ice[d dessert made] of milk
    ;-) clearly i'm speaking in slang latin
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Magdalen has the air of a well-scrubbed front room. One for @MorrisDancer, who eats only Red Leicester and Edam!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Bet we do not see the BBC shouting this for two or three days...................

    Its already covered in the Telegraph, Guardian and FT:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/industry/10676335/UK-talking-itself-into-EU-exit-says-GKN-boss-Nigel-Stein.html

    http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/04/british-exit-eu-industry-manufacturing-gkn

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/88345372-a39f-11e3-aa85-00144feab7de.html#axzz2v1Go2Hiv

    Funnily enough, they are more concerned with the EU/UK impact, than something that might, or might not, affect 8% of the UK......
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Here's a quote for you from 2008:

    "After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of moral indecision and equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next."

    From a pb favourite, no less.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    malcolmg said:

    Bet we do not see the BBC shouting this for two or three days...................
    The head of one of the UK's biggest engineering firms has said that his company has no concerns over Scottish independence but has warned that anti-EU rhetoric from Westminster is damaging UK industry.

    GKN chief executive Nigel Stein told the national conference of the EEF manufacturers organisation that Scottish independence would not affect his company, but instead said the main threat to business came from the In/Out referendum pledged by David Cameron

    Stein's comments are highly offensive. Essentially he's saying Scotland is insignificant. I don't agree.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    antifrank said:

    Here's a quote for you from 2008:

    "After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of moral indecision and equivalence, the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next."

    From a pb favourite, no less.

    Clearly someone who understands both Russia and the Democrats.

    Someone who might be able to see Russia from their back yard?

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited March 2014
    If you had been a soft/tactical SNP voter in the run up to the last GE and Holyrood elections, but also a strong No voter in the Indy Referendum that delivered a NO result. Would you really want to kick off the whole debate again just a few months later by then boosting the SNP electorally, especially if the SNP leadership of Salmond and Sturgeon had failed to impress you with their behaviour and arguments in the Indy debate that has lasted two years? I suspect that most Scots not of a nationalist persuasion might just want to give the whole issue a wide berth for a while, and will be hoping that Holyrood might just get back to concentrating on bread and butter and issues that matter on the doorstep.

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, how will Labour supporters decide to feel if Tony Blair decides to make a big donation to Labour, as is being bruited? Will they feel grateful for the support or will they regard it as blood money?

    I'm not a Labour supporter, but like Zsa Zsa Gabor, I never hated a man enough to give him his diamonds back.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Is Blair planning on attaching any policy demands to this possible donation, or is he just trying to be financially supportive in the run up to the next GE?
    antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, how will Labour supporters decide to feel if Tony Blair decides to make a big donation to Labour, as is being bruited? Will they feel grateful for the support or will they regard it as blood money?

    I'm not a Labour supporter, but like Zsa Zsa Gabor, I never hated a man enough to give him his diamonds back.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    fitalass said:

    If you had been a soft/tactical SNP voter in the run up to the last GE and Holyrood elections, but also a strong No voter in the Indy Referendum that delivered a NO result. Would you really want to kick off the whole debate again just a few months later by then boosting the SNP electorally, especially if the SNP leadership of Salmond and Sturgeon had failed to impress you with their behaviour and arguments in the Indy debate that has lasted two years? I suspect that most Scots not of a nationalist persuasion might just want to give the whole issue a wide berth for a while, and will be hoping that Holyrood might just get back to concentrating on bread and butter and issues that matter on the doorstep.

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

    Dream on
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    fitalass said:

    Is Blair planning on attaching any policy demands to this possible donation, or is he just trying to be financially supportive in the run up to the next GE?

    antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, how will Labour supporters decide to feel if Tony Blair decides to make a big donation to Labour, as is being bruited? Will they feel grateful for the support or will they regard it as blood money?

    I'm not a Labour supporter, but like Zsa Zsa Gabor, I never hated a man enough to give him his diamonds back.

    Blair's wealth is so vast that he can now become Labour's sugar daddy. The Unions can go hang. The final betrayal of what Labour used to stand for, just another rich man's play thing.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Last time after the lost referendum the SNP vote dropped and they lost a good perqcentage of seats. If No wins, I expect the same this time round.
    fitalass said:

    If you had been a soft/tactical SNP voter in the run up to the last GE and Holyrood elections, but also a strong No voter in the Indy Referendum that delivered a NO result. Would you really want to kick off the whole debate again just a few months later by then boosting the SNP electorally, especially if the SNP leadership of Salmond and Sturgeon had failed to impress you with their behaviour and arguments in the Indy debate that has lasted two years? I suspect that most Scots not of a nationalist persuasion might just want to give the whole issue a wide berth for a while, and will be hoping that Holyrood might just get back to concentrating on bread and butter and issues that matter on the doorstep.

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Ecce Romani 1
    In pictura est puella.
    Puella Cornelia est.
    Cornelia in Italia habitat.

    Not too bad after 35 years.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited March 2014
    Certainly a point of view - but if you are looking for someone to run the country then who else could you vote for? Especially if you aren't a fan of voting for the proverbial middling-lower primates with red rosettes pinned to their chest fur?

    And even on your score there may be an element of keeping the options open in case the Tories and Kippers try to drag Scotland out of the EU. That'd alone keep the issue open, given polling on the EU.
    fitalass said:

    If you had been a soft/tactical SNP voter in the run up to the last GE and Holyrood elections, but also a strong No voter in the Indy Referendum that delivered a NO result. Would you really want to kick off the whole debate again just a few months later by then boosting the SNP electorally, especially if the SNP leadership of Salmond and Sturgeon had failed to impress you with their behaviour and arguments in the Indy debate that has lasted two years? I suspect that most Scots not of a nationalist persuasion might just want to give the whole issue a wide berth for a while, and will be hoping that Holyrood might just get back to concentrating on bread and butter and issues that matter on the doorstep.

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Carnyx said:

    Certainly a point of view - but if you are looking for someone to run the country then who else could you vote for? Especially if you aren't a fan of voting for the proverbial middling-lower primates with red rosettes pinned to their chest fur?

    And even on your score there may be an element of keeping the options open in case the Tories and Kippers try to drag Scotland out of the EU.

    fitalass said:


    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

    I reluctantly agree Carnyx. Although I could not bring myself to vote for them an SNP admistration has, on the whole, not been any worse and in some ways better than a SLAB adminstration.

    I have been saying for over a year on here that after Scotland votes no I expect the SNP to pick up seats although these will mainly be as a result of the collapse of the Scottish Lib Dems rather than Labour.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    If No wins the referendum convincingly, the consequences for 2015 are unpredictable and much will depend on the remainder of the referendum campaign.

    If Labour stay as quiet for the rest of the campaign as they have to date (and if No looks throughout like winning convincingly, they probably will because they don't want to be seen aligning themselves with the Tories and the Lib Dems), they may have trouble motivating their base next time around. Meanwhile, the true believer SNP supporters will be demotivated.

    So turnout may well be considerably lower than usual.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Salmond with puns and insults. Economics free speech..
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    Quite so re the first referendum. But remember there was no Scottish Parliament at the time and the Scots have always been keen on tactical voting in the FPTP system. So not so comparable - and the UK GE is a year before the Scottish GE.

    Last time after the lost referendum the SNP vote dropped and they lost a good perqcentage of seats. If No wins, I expect the same this time round.

    fitalass said:

    If you had been a soft/tactical SNP voter in the run up to the last GE and Holyrood elections, but also a strong No voter in the Indy Referendum that delivered a NO result. Would you really want to kick off the whole debate again just a few months later by then boosting the SNP electorally, especially if the SNP leadership of Salmond and Sturgeon had failed to impress you with their behaviour and arguments in the Indy debate that has lasted two years? I suspect that most Scots not of a nationalist persuasion might just want to give the whole issue a wide berth for a while, and will be hoping that Holyrood might just get back to concentrating on bread and butter and issues that matter on the doorstep.

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited March 2014
    Salmond compares GO and DC to the "Dambusters" er..... Is that his "fire up the Quattro" gaffe ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Certainly a point of view - but if you are looking for someone to run the country then who else could you vote for? Especially if you aren't a fan of voting for the proverbial middling-lower primates with red rosettes pinned to their chest fur?

    And even on your score there may be an element of keeping the options open in case the Tories and Kippers try to drag Scotland out of the EU.

    fitalass said:

    [edited]

    I reluctantly agree Carnyx. Although I could not bring myself to vote for them an SNP admistration has, on the whole, not been any worse and in some ways better than a SLAB adminstration.

    I have been saying for over a year on here that after Scotland votes no I expect the SNP to pick up seats although these will mainly be as a result of the collapse of the Scottish Lib Dems rather than Labour.

    Not so sure about Labour, in the UK GE: their USP in the UK GE is they are not Tories or LDs but now (a) the SNP are muscling in on that and (b) they've been in bed with the Tories and LDs (even if they try to hide it by the political equivalent of parking around the corner and sneaking out before dawn) for much of the referendum campaign. Hard to say how it will go.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2014
    SNP before and after the Devolution referendum, 1979...

    Oct 74, 30.4% 11 seats
    May 79, 17.3% 2 seats
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    RodCrosby said:

    SNP before and after the Devolution referendum, 1979...

    Oct 74, 30.4% 11 seats
    May 79, 17.3% 2 seats

    But of course, that was because of what happened after the referendum: the SNP enabling the Tories to form a government by bringing down the Labour government at an inopportune time.

    That's not to say there won't be any kind of parallel next time with the '79 election in Scotland though, there is a party currently with 11 seats in Scotland who have enabled the hated Tories in the past few years...
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, how will Labour supporters decide to feel if Tony Blair decides to make a big donation to Labour, as is being bruited? Will they feel grateful for the support or will they regard it as blood money?

    I'm not a Labour supporter, but like Zsa Zsa Gabor, I never hated a man enough to give him his diamonds back.

    Will it big as big as that given to the "Estate of David And Theresa Mills" by Berlusconi? Will Cronie and Imelda have to sell a few of Silvio's expensive watches to fund it...?

    :watch-for-the-'clever'-puntahs:

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Certainly a point of view - but if you are looking for someone to run the country then who else could you vote for? Especially if you aren't a fan of voting for the proverbial middling-lower primates with red rosettes pinned to their chest fur?

    And even on your score there may be an element of keeping the options open in case the Tories and Kippers try to drag Scotland out of the EU.

    fitalass said:

    [edited]

    I reluctantly agree Carnyx. Although I could not bring myself to vote for them an SNP admistration has, on the whole, not been any worse and in some ways better than a SLAB adminstration.

    I have been saying for over a year on here that after Scotland votes no I expect the SNP to pick up seats although these will mainly be as a result of the collapse of the Scottish Lib Dems rather than Labour.

    Not so sure about Labour, in the UK GE: their USP in the UK GE is they are not Tories or LDs but now (a) the SNP are muscling in on that and (b) they've been in bed with the Tories and LDs (even if they try to hide it by the political equivalent of parking around the corner and sneaking out before dawn) for much of the referendum campaign. Hard to say how it will go.
    If there were a series of close Labour/SNP marginals I might agree with you but there really aren't and most require substantial swings. At a time when Labour is highly motivated to restore a Labour government this seems a big ask for me. The Lib Dems are easy meat by comparison, especially anywhere south of Inverness.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    "sensed" weakness - it's not like it's hidden somewhere
This discussion has been closed.