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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From data already public from latest ComRes phone poll it

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited March 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » From data already public from latest ComRes phone poll it looks as though the LAB will get a boost

Frustratingly the Indy is releasing its monthly ComRes phone poll in parts and we don’t have the voting intention numbers yet. Given the cost of carrying out phone polls this is understandable but we’d all love to see the actual numbers.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    The first shall be the last.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Sometimes we obsess too much over a single poll, but discussing what a poll might show, when it is eventually published, is taking nerdship to a new level!
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Sometimes we obsess too much over a single poll, but discussing what a poll might show, when it is eventually published, is taking nerdship to a new level!

    So being a PB elder statesman you support it !!

  • Nothing's moving much.

    In Scotland it's going to be a NO.

    In the GE it's going to be PM Redward with a decent majority.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited March 2014
    OFCOM has today declared UKIP a Major Party for the Euro elections only.

    However ruling does not apply in Scotland.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/03/itv-channel-5-to-show-ukip-election-broadcasts
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @JackW

    Whiskeys from nations other than Scotland are indeed (usually) spelt with an e!!!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Patrick said:

    Nothing's moving much.

    In Scotland it's going to be a NO.

    In the GE it's going to be PM Redward with a decent majority.

    Does this mean I should vote yes? Decisions , decisions

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Great article on Coffee House about Ukraine:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/03/ten-handy-phrases-for-bluffing-your-way-through-the-ukraine-crisis/

    I think we've ticked most of these off on pb during the last few days (I may even have used one or two of them myself).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Allowing for all the entirely reasonable caveats, if Cons on 29 and UKIP on 14 is right, that suggests a good chance of one or two Kipper seats.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @RichardN

    Fair point sir. Why are ComRes dribbling out the raw data though - they must know what Mike will do with it! Silly from them.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BobaFett said:

    @JackW

    Whiskeys from nations other than Scotland are indeed (usually) spelt with an e!!!

    Absolutely and correctly so. The "e" is for effluent !!

  • BobaFett said:

    @RichardN

    Fair point sir. Why are ComRes dribbling out the raw data though - they must know what Mike will do with it! Silly from them.

    Desperately trying to generate an air of excitement?

  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    BobaFett said:

    @RichardN

    Fair point sir. Why are ComRes dribbling out the raw data though - they must know what Mike will do with it! Silly from them.

    Yes, you'd never catch any unscheduled leaks dribbling out of Jack's ARSE.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    Dan Hodges Labour membership card will be turning in its grave.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Labour seems to be going up rather than down !

    I hope my Battersea bet is safe :)
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    I do agree with Richard that we should probably wait for the poll! That said, Mike may well be near as dammit.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    I can report that Basil is once again in a furious mood after hearing about this poll
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited March 2014
    Patrick said:

    Nothing's moving much.

    In Scotland it's going to be a NO.

    In the GE it's going to be PM Redward with a decent majority.


    Nah - lets be serious for a minute. There are still cards to play and a GE campaign to go.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Patrick said:

    Nothing's moving much.

    In Scotland it's going to be a NO.

    In the GE it's going to be PM Redward with a decent majority.

    Wishful thinking on the first , who cares on the second, just another millionaire donkey
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723

    Allowing for all the entirely reasonable caveats, if Cons on 29 and UKIP on 14 is right, that suggests a good chance of one or two Kipper seats.

    Except the poll supposedly has UKIP on 11!

    It had UKIP on 14 last month.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    This thread may be pb's apotheosis: analysing and criticising data sets of an opinion poll that has not yet been released.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    BobaFett said:

    @RichardN

    Why are ComRes dribbling out the raw data though

    PB should pay more attention to JackW's ARSE.

    Jack always publishes the headline figures long before the internals.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    MikeL said:

    Allowing for all the entirely reasonable caveats, if Cons on 29 and UKIP on 14 is right, that suggests a good chance of one or two Kipper seats.

    Except the poll supposedly has UKIP on 11!

    It had UKIP on 14 last month.
    Kip + Con on 40 ? = interesting.

  • I can report that Basil is once again in a furious mood after hearing about this poll

    Who is Basil?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    I can report that Basil is once again in a furious mood after hearing about this poll

    Who is Basil?
    compouter's childhood pet.

    He steals Pork's acorns.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    Tread softly because you tread on his dreams.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    antifrank said:

    This thread may be pb's apotheosis: analysing and criticising data sets of an opinion poll that has not yet been released.

    This morning we have an over broke book on the biggest political betting heat of the year, and a thread goes up about a monthly poll that hasnt been published yet...

    Still as it seems some new posters need all the practise they can get in analysing data correctly, maybe OGH is treating this dry run as a set of stabilisers... one day they might even have the confidence to talk about betting
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If OGH's numbers are correct then Kip+Con+Lib+Lab = 87.

    Same sum for last night's Yougov is 93.

    6% more to minor parties ??!?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Is Salmond day tripping to London today for a "rue the day" speech ?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10674124/Independence-support-drops-after-George-Osbornes-Scottish-pound-warning.html

    "The findings were bad news for Mr Salmond, who will today use a major speech in London to argue that the Chancellor’s speech on sterling was a major strategic error as it encapsulates Westminster’s “diktats from on high” to Scotland."
  • Wishful thinking Malcolm? The polls are pretty unequivocally clear. The YES campaign is going to get the dockside hooker treatment in Sept. I think you're going to lose big. Which is, of course, an all round better and less stressful outcome than if you were to lose small.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    Patrick said:

    I think you're going to lose big.

    What odds are you offering on that bigness?

  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    TGOHF said:

    If OGH's numbers are correct then Kip+Con+Lib+Lab = 87.

    Same sum for last night's Yougov is 93.

    6% more to minor parties ??!?

    Haven't you been listening to the Yes voters on here - everyone in Scotland (and presumably Somerset) is voting Yes, and so also voting SNP.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Interesting radio interview given by Gerhardt Schroeder, the former Chancellor of Germany this morning. Two key observations:

    1. On the role of the EU

    The European Union “only facilitated the conflict in Ukraine” when it announced that “the Association Agreement is incompatible with the Customs Union agreement between Kiev and Moscow”

    2. On the role of NATO

    “this alliance does not have a political purpose, and its actions do not help to build trust, but on the contrary, create more and more concerns”. Measures to solve the Ukrainian crisis “should be solely diplomatic”

    Schroeder's criticisms of these two trans-national organisations have been widely aired in the western press but this is an early example of establishment political figures stating similar conclusions in public.

    The US, UK and EU simply pouring money and 'assistance' into Kiev without first allowing a stable geo-political to establish is a waste of limited resources and a squandering of diplomatic capital.

    Similarly, any intent to exclude Russia from economic support plans for The Ukraine, as punishment for Putin's actions, will simply frustrate the implementation of such plans and aggravate the wider threats of the overall crisis.
  • Patrick said:

    I think you're going to lose big.

    What odds are you offering on that bigness?

    I generally don't bet - but maybe I'll go out on a (small) limb here). If YES gets less than 45% you give me 20 quid. If they get more I'll give you 20 quid.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Tories have moved out to 4.7 with Betfair. More than 5 would possibly represent value:

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.101416490
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @isam Mike has filled his boots of Yes at 4-1 and one of Britain's shrewdest political bookies has advertised a readily arbable price saying it will be No. But if you've backed at 4-1 then you need to be a backer at 11-2 also and pray the price comes in.

    I'd b slightly worried if I was in his position but he's a far more experienced gambler than I so he's probably not.

    Also Hills are on the wrong side of the arb with their 1-4 on No. Which by implication is fantastic value.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    AndyJS said:

    Tories have moved out to 4.7 with Betfair. More than 5 would possibly represent value:

    http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.101416490

    Doubt that - 7.0, maybe.
  • MikeL said:

    OFCOM has today declared UKIP a Major Party for the Euro elections only.

    However ruling does not apply in Scotland.

    That would be because there's only one major party in Scotland, i.e. Labour with 42%.

    The remainder is basically a protest vote distributed more or less equally among the three minor parties, two of which seem to think they could make a better fist than Labour of its anti-business, anti-enterprise, anti-jobs, anti-prosperity agenda.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Shadsy vs OGH - Pick your side !
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you're going to lose big.

    What odds are you offering on that bigness?

    I generally don't bet - but maybe I'll go out on a (small) limb here). If YES gets less than 45% you give me 20 quid. If they get more I'll give you 20 quid.

    Oh dear, at least Antifrank and Mark Senior took me on for evens at 40%. I'll certainly offer that.

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited March 2014
    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.
  • YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .

    I'm afraid you may be right. Maybe I should donate to Yes. This issue is too important to be left to inept Scotch public sector troughers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    @Theuniondivvie I have a bad feeling its going to be an expensive night for you :/
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    I cannot stress how damaging it is for the Tories to be seen to keep running out in defence of the City of London whenever some supposed crisis erupts.

    The fact Tories cannot see this is too funny.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting article in this month's Standpoint magazine:

    http://standpointmag.co.uk/features-march-14-even-a-fading-nigel-farage-can-deny-david-cameron-victory-iain-martin-ukip

    "Even a fading Nigel Farage can deny Cameron victory"
  • ...the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland

    In 2010 the Tories and the SNP polled pretty much the same - 17% vs 20%. Same difference really, when Labour gets 42%.

    Amusingly, Scotland is a country in which most of its parties are minor parties, which seems somehow apt.

  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Patrick said:

    Patrick said:

    I think you're going to lose big.

    What odds are you offering on that bigness?

    I generally don't bet - but maybe I'll go out on a (small) limb here). If YES gets less than 45% you give me 20 quid. If they get more I'll give you 20 quid.

    Oh dear, at least Antifrank and Mark Senior took me on for evens at 40%. I'll certainly offer that.

    I'll take £20 on that, if you're willing. This is my first PB bet!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    edited March 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    @Theuniondivvie I have a bad feeling its going to be an expensive night for you :/

    I'm happy to offer you the 40% or over for Yes bet as well?

  • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10674124/Independence-support-drops-after-George-Osbornes-Scottish-pound-warning.html

    'Support for Scottish independence has dropped since George Osborne rejected a currency union, according to an opinion poll published as Alex Salmond today calls the Chancellor’s intervention a “monumental error”.'

    Oh dear. He really is Comical Alex, isn't he?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    BenM said:

    I cannot stress how damaging it is for the Tories to be seen to keep running out in defence of the City of London whenever some supposed crisis erupts.

    The fact Tories cannot see this is too funny.

    Ben

    The City pays the taxes which allow Labour voters to survive without working.

    The fact Lefties cannot see this isn't funny at all: it is frightening.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited March 2014

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

    Since you are indeed talking of Scotland (!), I will add - from my own perspective - that I was indeed thinking very much that this morning, partly because of the way in which recent voting intentions have been showing up (some polls giving the SNP a 5% percentage point margin over Labour at Westminster, which is what is needed to counteract the Labour constituency distrubition factor if playing on Electoral Calculus is any guide). And then I read this

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/hugh-reilly-labour-has-lost-its-way-1-3327113

    There are also other factors which spring to mind as pointing that way but I won't bother you with them as I have work to do!

    One caveat: other beneficiaries might be UKIP, Greens, Trots or the Monster Raving mob, to some extent. Though I would be very surprised to see anyone other than the Greens, and perhaps a revived Sheridan-style leftie party, pick up more than the odd list seat at Holyrood.
  • Pulpstar said:

    @Theuniondivvie I have a bad feeling its going to be an expensive night for you :/

    I'm happy to offer you the 40% or over for Yes bet as well?

    If the bet is that
    Yes vote >= 40% means I pay you; and hence
    Yes vote <40% means you pay me

    I would have £20 with you on that too. Depends how much of it you want obviously, you may have enough.

    I would think I could better off a bookie but they're all blocked from the office I'm in and when I get home I'm always too busy to look...

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    My thinking is that the referendum is a battle of Head vs Heart, and that Salmond will win on the latter but comprehensively lose on the former. So I anticipate that it will be a decisive but nonetheless reluctant No, leaving voters favourably disposed towards the SNP and keen to give them a consolation prize, which can be rationalised as supporting the party which 'stood up for Scotland' even if, when push comes to shove, Scots overwhelmingly decide that independence is a leap too far into the dark.

    In addition, Labour, as the SNP's main rivals in Scotland, don't seem to be providing any kind of emotional or strategic leadership in the referendum debate; it's hard to see Scottish attitudes towards Labour being enhanced by the campaign, or by their tie-up with Osborne and the Conservatives in Westminster in dissing Scottish dreams. Given that the Tories are thinly supported in Scotland, and the Scottish LibDems seem to be heading for an electoral car-crash, then, in this zero-sum game, the beneficiaries must be the SNP.

    I'm therefore expecting a net and possibly quite large swing towards the SNP in the 2015 GE. However, in terms of seats, there may not be a big change, since the majorities which the SNP will be trying to overturn in its top targets are all higher than 10% and mostly higher than 20%. It would be interesting to look at this in more detail, but I do think Shadsy's 4/5 on SNP getting over 6.5 seats is worth a punt.

    And whilst 42% YeS loses the referendum, 42% for the SNP does very well at Westminster. Of course thats oversimplistic but Scotland staying in the union may not be the disaster for the SNP everyone assumes it is.

    I can see it now:

    Paxo/O' Neill : "You've lost Mr Salmond" "61 to 39"

    Salmond turns to TV camera, a wry smile on his face "The important thing is that the Scottish people have decided their own fate. Now obviously we'd have preferred to have won but sometimes things don't work out that way"

    ...

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    I cannot stress how damaging it is for the Tories to be seen to keep running out in defence of the City of London whenever some supposed crisis erupts.

    The fact Tories cannot see this is too funny.

    Ben

    The City pays the taxes which allow Labour voters to survive without working.

    The fact Lefties cannot see this isn't funny at all: it is frightening.

    The City brought down a whole economy in 2008 which forced lots of voters of all hues to survive without working.
    .
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2014
    In 1983 the Tories were defending a notional majority of 3,634 votes in the new seat of Crewe & Nantwich but lost it by 290 to the sitting MP for Crewe Gwyneth Dunwoody. The Conservative candidate was Patrick Rock:

    http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge83/i06.htm
  • Pulpstar said:

    And whilst 42% YeS loses the referendum, 42% for the SNP does very well at Westminster.

    More than double 2010's result, in fact, and presumably in effect a swap of that year's results between SNP and Labour.

    Does anyone else find rather peculiar the idea that an electorate would vote for a secessionist party, but against secession? What does it achieve?

    The idea that the SNP view of the world could go from 20% support in 2010 (when nobody was scrutinising what their big idea actually entailed) to more than 50% 4 years later (after such scrutiny has taken place) is clearly so far-fetched as not to be worth thinking about. The interesting thing is how far they can stretch it from 20%, my best guess being low 30s.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1 pre-season piece is here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/f1-2014-second-and-third-tests.html

    A discussion about spread betting has begun in the comments. I don't do that (too rich for my blood), but it might be of interest to some here, so I thought I'd flag it up.

    I was surprised Grosjean and Maldonado has identical numbers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406

    Pulpstar said:

    @Theuniondivvie I have a bad feeling its going to be an expensive night for you :/

    I'm happy to offer you the 40% or over for Yes bet as well?

    No Thanks,

    I personally think it might well be around 40% actually, I'll just stick to our Yes/No bet.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    only sure thing is that the LD's are toast, likely that UKIP will beat them into 4th place.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    antifrank said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    Tread softly because you tread on his dreams.
    I am anything but a dreamer
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Looking at the small amount of data released so far , the Comres sample was heavily pro Labour . In the sample Labour out polled the Conservatives in the 2010 GE !! The weighting adjustments do not fully correct for this ( usual ) pro Labour bias in a telephone poll .

    Same as for Scotland, weighting is wrong and so it is not representative
    It will not make more than 1 or 2 % difference to the VI , YES is toast whether it is not quite representative or not .
    only sure thing is that the LD's are toast, likely that UKIP will beat them into 4th place.
    I'd love to see an Ashcroft poll in Danny Alexander's seat.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. G, you should eat some Red Leicester. Sweet dreams are made of cheese.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Lennon said:

    TGOHF said:

    If OGH's numbers are correct then Kip+Con+Lib+Lab = 87.

    Same sum for last night's Yougov is 93.

    6% more to minor parties ??!?

    Haven't you been listening to the Yes voters on here - everyone in Scotland (and presumably Somerset) is voting Yes, and so also voting SNP.
    the vote is not about the SNP
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    I cannot stress how damaging it is for the Tories to be seen to keep running out in defence of the City of London whenever some supposed crisis erupts.

    The fact Tories cannot see this is too funny.

    Ben

    The City pays the taxes which allow Labour voters to survive without working.

    The fact Lefties cannot see this isn't funny at all: it is frightening.

    The City brought down a whole economy in 2008 which forced lots of voters of all hues to survive without working.
    .
    Wasn't that Gordon, Ben?

    At least Gordon is nowhere to be seen today and the City is still paying for Labour's feckless scroungers.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Putin has said that Force will be used as a 'Last resort' in Ukraine.

    Hasn't force always been a 'last resort' ?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Pulpstar said:

    Putin has said that Force will be used as a 'Last resort' in Ukraine.

    Hasn't force always been a 'last resort' ?

    But he has promised it will not be used against women and children.

    He is a real old world charmer, Pulpstar.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Pulpstar said:

    And whilst 42% YeS loses the referendum, 42% for the SNP does very well at Westminster.

    More than double 2010's result, in fact, and presumably in effect a swap of that year's results between SNP and Labour.

    Does anyone else find rather peculiar the idea that an electorate would vote for a secessionist party, but against secession? What does it achieve?

    The idea that the SNP view of the world could go from 20% support in 2010 (when nobody was scrutinising what their big idea actually entailed) to more than 50% 4 years later (after such scrutiny has taken place) is clearly so far-fetched as not to be worth thinking about. The interesting thing is how far they can stretch it from 20%, my best guess being low 30s.
    As Mr Malcolmg said to another poster, independence is not the same as the SNP, and it works the other way round too: the SNP is not the same as independence. It has been running the country for almost a decade and is close to becoming the natural party of government in Scotland, one reason for the demented hate which Labour lavish on it to the extent that Labour vote against policies they want if they are in a SNP-proposed bill, the corroboration thing being a recent example (as one would expect from its political origins in part in the rape conviction issue).

    . That, together with making sure devomax (etc.) happen, is why that pattern of votes could very well happen. It's already showing in polling, if rather shakily.

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    I cannot stress how damaging it is for the Tories to be seen to keep running out in defence of the City of London whenever some supposed crisis erupts.

    The fact Tories cannot see this is too funny.

    Ben

    The City pays the taxes which allow Labour voters to survive without working.

    The fact Lefties cannot see this isn't funny at all: it is frightening.

    The City brought down a whole economy in 2008 which forced lots of voters of all hues to survive without working.
    .
    Wasn't that Gordon, Ben?

    At least Gordon is nowhere to be seen today and the City is still paying for Labour's feckless scroungers.

    Yes such was his malevolence that Gordon ensured the same crisis spread to the US so lots of them ended up surviving without working.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited March 2014

    Mr. G, you should eat some Red Leicester. Sweet dreams are made of cheese.

    Really? And I was brought up to believe that eating cheese to close to bed-time is a source of nightmares (see PG Wodehouse and the dangers of a lobster au gratin supper).

    Anyway, Red Leicester may be a fine cheese, but the cheese of the month if not the year must be Brighton Blue. Herself gave me some the other night and it is wonderful, a very creamy, tangy taste but mellow. Of course it doesn't come from Brighton but from those awfully nice and very clever people at the High Weald Dairy at Horsted Keynes. You can buy it and their other products on line here:

    http://www.highwealddairy.co.uk/index.php?webpage=product_detail.php&product_id=172755&cID=12203

    If you like good cheese you will love Brighton Blue.

    P.S. Their sheep milk cheese is pretty damn good too. They are doing a cheese board selection offer for twenty quid, which must be worth a go.

    P.P.S. You lot being a suspicious bunch I suppose I ought to say I have no interest in the producers, I am jut trying to pass on a discovery.

    P.P.P.S. Morris Dancer, a Yorkshireman, advocating eating Leicester cheese is rather sad but ought to tell us something about the state of Wensleydale Cheese in these modern times.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2014

    Since we're talking of Scotland (!), I am more and more convinced that, contrary to what one might initially have expected, the SNP will get a big boost in support in Holyrood and Westminster elections, following a No in the referendum.

    ...

    *snip*

    I think that's spot-on. The idea that the SNP would go in a rapid downward spiral after a "No" vote never made any sense whatsoever. It seemed to be based on the usual Westminster-village guff of "their credibility will be damaged" or something -- but most normal people don't think about politics in terms of "credibility" or whether a party or individual is "strong" or "weak", they think of it in terms of whose policies they like the most and who they trust most to act in their interests.

    I do still expect Labour to be comfortably the largest Scottish party at the next general election simply because people will be so desperate to get rid of the Tories (probably with both Lab and SNP picking up a small increase on their 2010 scores thanks to the Lib Dem collapse), but I expect the SNP to easily win the next Scottish Parliament election, possibly with an overall majority. Even I would probably consider voting SNP for Holyrood.

    The only possible worry for the SNP in the event of a "No" vote is not what the average voter will think, but potential internal infighting. Perhaps there'll be a hardline tendency within the SNP who'll say that the referendum failed because Salmond's offer was too timid (in terms of keeping the pound and other British things--"independence-lite") and will push to keep independence the top priority, while the SNP mainstream argue to put independence on the back-burner for a while and focus on other things. Or maybe the small group of rightwing SNP activists, who've been putting up with the leadership's leftwing policies up til now, will start getting restless.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Free Money alert:

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/oscar-pistorius?AFF_ID=60065

    Back Pistorius to be guilty, money back if he is not guilty ! Max £20.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Llama, I was cunningly using misheard lyrics to the Eurythmics' Sweet Dreams:
    Sweet dreams are made of cheese
    Who am I to diss a brie?
    I travel the world and the cheddar cheese
    Everybody's looking for stilton

    In truth, I only really eat Red Leicester, and occasionally Edam.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Mr. G, you should eat some Red Leicester. Sweet dreams are made of cheese.

    Really? And I was brought up to believe that eating cheese to close to bed-time is a source of nightmares (see PG Wodehouse and the dangers of a lobster au gratin supper).

    Anyway, Red Leicester may be a fine cheese, but the cheese of the month if not the year must be Brighton Blue. Herself gave me some the other night and it is wonderful, a very creamy, tangy taste but mellow. Of course it doesn't come from Brighton but from those awfully nice and very clever people at the High Weald Dairy at Horsted Keynes. You can buy it and their other products on line here:

    http://www.highwealddairy.co.uk/index.php?webpage=product_detail.php&product_id=172755&cID=12203

    If you like good cheese you will love Brighton Blue.

    P.S. Their sheep milk cheese is pretty damn good too. They are doing a cheese board selection offer for twenty quid, which must be worth a go.

    P.P.S. You lot being a suspicious bunch I suppose I ought to say I have no interest in the producers, I am jut trying to pass on a discovery.

    P.P.P.S. Morris Dancer, a Yorkshireman, advocating eating Leicester cheese is rather sad but ought to tell us something about the state of Wensleydale Cheese in these modern times.
    If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy.

    But the fact that SLAB with all its barely concealed corruption, incompetency and nonentities still polls so high is proof of some infernal interference with the affairs of man, so I guess there is a chance of divine intervention yet.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    AveryLP said:

    BenM said:

    I cannot stress how damaging it is for the Tories to be seen to keep running out in defence of the City of London whenever some supposed crisis erupts.

    The fact Tories cannot see this is too funny.

    Ben

    The City pays the taxes which allow Labour voters to survive without working.

    The fact Lefties cannot see this isn't funny at all: it is frightening.

    The City brought down a whole economy in 2008 which forced lots of voters of all hues to survive without working.
    .
    Wasn't that Gordon, Ben?

    At least Gordon is nowhere to be seen today and the City is still paying for Labour's feckless scroungers.

    Yes such was his malevolence that Gordon ensured the same crisis spread to the US so lots of them ended up surviving without working.
    Some might argue that an international arrest warrant for Gordon should be issued by InterPol and that he should be indicted to stand trial at the International Criminal Court in The Hague.

    Whereas I have some sympathy with those espousing such a view, its weakness lies in having to prove criminal intent and a motive for gain.

    Sadly all the evidence points to Gordon believing he was saving the world's economy rather than destroying it.

    My advice to you Ben is to forsake the destructive self-deception of socialist ideals. All you need to do to cure yourself is to vote Tory.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, I was cunningly using misheard lyrics to the Eurythmics' Sweet Dreams:
    Sweet dreams are made of cheese
    Who am I to diss a brie?
    I travel the world and the cheddar cheese
    Everybody's looking for stilton

    In truth, I only really eat Red Leicester, and occasionally Edam.

    You only eat Red Leicester and, occasionally, Edam. Dear God. I suppose the Eurythmics did have something straight in their song,

    "Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused"
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Lennon said:

    TGOHF said:

    If OGH's numbers are correct then Kip+Con+Lib+Lab = 87.

    Same sum for last night's Yougov is 93.

    6% more to minor parties ??!?

    Haven't you been listening to the Yes voters on here - everyone in Scotland (and presumably Somerset) is voting Yes, and so also voting SNP.
    the vote is not about the SNP
    But it is about the Tories........?

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    My advice to you Ben is to forsake the destructive self-deception of socialist ideals. All you need to do to cure yourself is Vote Tory.


    If socialism had worked one single time in one single place you could understand why people support it.

    As it is, even the left's poster boy of the moment, Venezuela, is a basket case.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954
    This is great.

    Putin says that the soldiers who are blockading Ukrainian military bases whilst wearing Russian uniforms with missing insignia, carrying Russian weapons, and using Russian vehicles are not in fact Russian, but some sort of Crimean militia defending their country from fascists.

    Unfortunately for Vlad the BBC's Mark Lowen went and asked them who they are:


    "But the BBC's Mark Lowen and his team managed to speak to one of the heavily armed soldiers blockading the military base in the town of Bakhchisarai, central Crimea, yesterday, who said he was a Russian soldier "usually based in Sevastopol"."

    "Asked whether he thought it was right that Russian soldiers were barricading troops of the Ukrainian army in sovereign military bases of the Republic of Ukraine, the soldier said: "If you ask me as a person, then no it's not right. But I'm following orders.""

    D'oh!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Llama, to clarify: those are the only cheese I eat. I do eat other food.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    Free Money alert:

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/oscar-pistorius?AFF_ID=60065

    Back Pistorius to be guilty, money back if he is not guilty ! Max £20.

    Does Saffer law allow a not-proven verdict? Also what if the verdict is commuted [?] to manslaughter?

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2014
    AndyJS said:

    In 1983 the Tories were defending a notional majority of 3,634 votes in the new seat of Crewe & Nantwich but lost it by 290 to the sitting MP for Crewe Gwyneth Dunwoody. The Conservative candidate was Patrick Rock:

    http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge83/i06.htm

    And as I pointed out last night, he went on to lose the Tory-held Portsmouth South to Hancock in the '84 by-election.

    I remember the extraordinary scenes afterwards where he refused to give an interview and was whisked away in a car after the count...

    He must be one of but a few individuals who have lost two seats in the space of 12 months!

    Patrick Gordon-Walker was another...
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    And fruit cake, Mr. DaemonBarber, don't forget fruitcake. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that the combination of a slice of rich, moist fruitcake accompanied by a fine English cheese (preferably one of the crumbly ones) and a glass of whisky (or whiskey, if you prefer it) is as close to the proof of the existence of God as one can get.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Free Money alert:

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/oscar-pistorius?AFF_ID=60065

    Back Pistorius to be guilty, money back if he is not guilty ! Max £20.

    Does Saffer law allow a not-proven verdict? Also what if the verdict is commuted [?] to manslaughter?

    Conditions of bet:

    Bets void should charge be changed from ‘premeditated murder’ before verdict. Bets void should mistrial be declared

    Conditions of refund:

    Bets void should charge be changed from ‘premeditated murder’ before verdict.
    Bets void should mistrial be declared.
    Bets will not be accepted on this market from permanent residents of South Africa.
    Applies to all bets placed before 11am, March 5th.
    Max Refund E/£20 per customer
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    AveryLP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Free Money alert:

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/novelty-betting/current-affairs/oscar-pistorius?AFF_ID=60065

    Back Pistorius to be guilty, money back if he is not guilty ! Max £20.

    Does Saffer law allow a not-proven verdict? Also what if the verdict is commuted [?] to manslaughter?

    Conditions of bet:

    Bets void should charge be changed from ‘premeditated murder’ before verdict. Bets void should mistrial be declared

    Conditions of refund:

    Bets void should charge be changed from ‘premeditated murder’ before verdict.
    Bets void should mistrial be declared.
    Bets will not be accepted on this market from permanent residents of South Africa.
    Applies to all bets placed before 11am, March 5th.
    Max Refund E/£20 per customer
    Most unseemly
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    This is a 2/7 bet to nothing for the sake of a PR stunt by Paddy. #Paddypower is going through the roof on Twitter. Their upside is the controversy and subsequent publicity.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    "If I were at all religiously inclined (which I'm not), I would include cheese along with wine, beer and whisky as proof that god loves us and wants us to be happy."

    And fruit cake, Mr. DaemonBarber, don't forget fruitcake. In fact I'd go so far as to suggest that the combination of a slice of rich, moist fruitcake accompanied by a fine English cheese (preferably one of the crumbly ones) and a glass of whisky (or whiskey, if you prefer it) is as close to the proof of the existence of God as one can get.

    Aye, that or a good aged Stilton and Port combo on a winter's evening...

    Whisky... I wonder what it was like when that first person took a look at his beer and said "this beer is good, but I think we can improve it... Get the kettle out..". However it played out, they should be sainted at least.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    Pulpstar said:

    This is a 2/7 bet to nothing for the sake of a PR stunt by Paddy. #Paddypower is going through the roof on Twitter. Their upside is the controversy and subsequent publicity.

    Not sure any organisation, let alone a publically listed bookmaker should be doing stunts or PR on this. Whilst I accept Paddypower like to be edgy and humerous (see their annual report regarding Miley Cyrus for instance) , this is just bad form imo
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    glw said:

    This is great.

    Putin says that the soldiers who are blockading Ukrainian military bases whilst wearing Russian uniforms with missing insignia, carrying Russian weapons, and using Russian vehicles are not in fact Russian, but some sort of Crimean militia defending their country from fascists.

    Unfortunately for Vlad the BBC's Mark Lowen went and asked them who they are:


    "But the BBC's Mark Lowen and his team managed to speak to one of the heavily armed soldiers blockading the military base in the town of Bakhchisarai, central Crimea, yesterday, who said he was a Russian soldier "usually based in Sevastopol"."

    "Asked whether he thought it was right that Russian soldiers were barricading troops of the Ukrainian army in sovereign military bases of the Republic of Ukraine, the soldier said: "If you ask me as a person, then no it's not right. But I'm following orders.""

    D'oh!

    Putin's line is that the soldiers are a mix of Russian troops (mainly marines) lawfully deployed to the Sevastapol Fleet base and soldiers drawn from local Autonomous Republic of Crimea forces. Regardless of their origin, Putin argues that they are operating on the orders of the ARC government and through its military line of command.

    Putin repeatedly states that Russian forces, when and if deployed on ARC and/or Ukrainian territory, are there on an "humanitarian mission".

    The lack of insignia identifying the origin and command line of the forces is a measure taken to de-escalate tension and assert the apolitical nature of their humanitarian purpose.


    Now argue with that glw!

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    You urgently need to develop your palette @MorrisDancer

    @Antifrank will be able to recommend some cracking Asian restaurants down here in our nation's fair capital
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Mr. Llama, to clarify: those are the only cheese I eat. I do eat other food.

    Yes I gathered that , Mr. D., So I stand by my comment, if the only cheeses you eat are Red Leicester and Edam,

    "Some of them want to abuse you
    Some of them want to be abused"

    Anyway, A short while ago I typed out a long email to you explaining why you should try the new Thief game. Then I hit the wrong button and lost the lot. Rather than starting from scratch and as you are probably going to read this can I say buy and play the new Thief game, a snip for £27 on steam, and it is humungous fun.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    edited March 2014

    Pulpstar said:

    This is a 2/7 bet to nothing for the sake of a PR stunt by Paddy. #Paddypower is going through the roof on Twitter. Their upside is the controversy and subsequent publicity.

    Not sure any organisation, let alone a publically listed bookmaker should be doing stunts or PR on this. Whilst I accept Paddypower like to be edgy and humerous (see their annual report regarding Miley Cyrus for instance) , this is just bad form imo
    They can pull back and say they 'might have got it wrong' though - And then everyone says "Paddy being Paddy"

    And there is quite a big horse racing event coming up that attracts a fair few quid in wagers...

    If you wanted to get some publicity as a bookie now is the time to do it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Fett, of all the deadly sins, I suspect gluttony is the one I indulge least.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited March 2014
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    This is a 2/7 bet to nothing for the sake of a PR stunt by Paddy. #Paddypower is going through the roof on Twitter. Their upside is the controversy and subsequent publicity.

    Not sure any organisation, let alone a publically listed bookmaker should be doing stunts or PR on this. Whilst I accept Paddypower like to be edgy and humerous (see their annual report regarding Miley Cyrus for instance) , this is just bad form imo
    They can pull back and say they 'might have got it wrong' though - And then everyone says "Paddy being Paddy"

    And there is quite a big horse racing event coming up that attracts a fair few quid in wagers...

    If you wanted to get some publicity as a bookie now is the time to do it.
    Judging by their last Cheltenham book I would have thought PP would want to avoid taking any bets on it. How many Irish winners were they?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    BobaFett said:

    You urgently need to develop your palette @MorrisDancer

    @Antifrank will be able to recommend some cracking Asian restaurants down here in our nation's fair capital

    On the centre-left, live in/around London... Hmm. Well you're definitely a "Boba"
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    Invisible Russkie tank columns reached Kiev yet?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Pulpstar said:

    And whilst 42% YeS loses the referendum, 42% for the SNP does very well at Westminster.

    More than double 2010's result, in fact, and presumably in effect a swap of that year's results between SNP and Labour.

    Does anyone else find rather peculiar the idea that an electorate would vote for a secessionist party, but against secession? What does it achieve?

    The idea that the SNP view of the world could go from 20% support in 2010 (when nobody was scrutinising what their big idea actually entailed) to more than 50% 4 years later (after such scrutiny has taken place) is clearly so far-fetched as not to be worth thinking about. The interesting thing is how far they can stretch it from 20%, my best guess being low 30s.
    I know you are really dense, so in simple terms, it is about Scotland not the SNP. Back under your rock.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Llama, alas, cruel poverty oppresses me. Besides, I'm spending a reasonable amount of time writing now, and don't mind the relative lack of distraction.

    I need to tighten up and then send off my current short story, then work on another. In addition, there's Kingdom Asunder and Sir Edric's Treasure (I'm hoping the new start to the latter will work. It seems to be so far).
This discussion has been closed.