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To be, or not to be: that is the question – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited May 12 in General
imageTo be, or not to be: that is the question – politicalbetting.com

In a sign of how febrile the atmosphere in Westminster is just now, there have been wild rumours flying around today that Rishi Sunak is planning to finally call an election on Monday. Read on ??https://t.co/dOubtY24jt

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Now That’s What I Call Bullshit Vol 5 is out

    I’ve decided to make a 5th compilation video of Keir Starmer's Flip flops, u-turns and lies

    https://x.com/timmyvoe/status/1783658747723755932?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    A Monday election would be unusual. January 2025 still for me.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    The Rishi to announce GE rumours are patently hostile and designed to create a "bottler" narrative.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Our first election interference?

    Bots are spreading #LondonVoterFraud on TwiX.
    https://twitter.com/search?q=#LondonVoterFraud
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    A Monday election would be unusual. January 2025 still for me.

    Agree just backed 2025 at 20 on Betfair
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    Our first election interference?

    Bots are spreading #LondonVoterFraud on TwiX.
    https://twitter.com/search?q=#LondonVoterFraud

    Someone on here accurately said that with Trump, accusation is confession. I can't help but feel that the same is true with Elon Musk and bots on twitter.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
    edited April 26
    A fairly safe prediction is that the Scottish Parliament live feed is going to get its biggest ever audience next week when the VOC takes place.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    That's where my money is.

    I see a very narrow logic for calling an election next week, particularly if the King is returning to duty at the same time, but it's essentially volunteering for an early suicide so I very much doubt it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    People tend to forget that December was not Johnson's favoured election time in 2019. He had made two unsuccessful attempts to hold a GE earlier that Autumn but been blocked by the terms of the FTPA. He was only able to proceed when the SNP and LDs agreed to open the door for a December poll.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Touch of the Earl of Southamptons?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,693
    legatus said:

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    People tend to forget that December was not Johnson's favoured election time in 2019. He had made two unsuccessful attempts to hold a GE earlier that Autumn but been blocked by the terms of the FTPA. He was only able to proceed when the SNP and LDs agreed to open the door for a December poll.
    That's a good point.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    Might not be by this time on Monday. Lecture out. Followed by Sunak out…
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    edited April 26

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    Obvious comparison with Boris's December landslide though. Still, can't rule it out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    Yup.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    CPI for April due to be announced 15 or 22 May, could be on target 2%! Rishi will be aware of this and could use this in the campaign as a CON triumph 😈
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    Yup.
    Available where? I can only see Oct to Dec at very short odds on oddschecker
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    Surely, TSE, the election will be called tomorrow.

    And tomorrow, and tomorrow......
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    I've met and had chats with some really interesting people on breaks today, none more so than at breakfast

    I sat down with Travis from Tennessee who had a truly terrifying tale

    I think he's in his sixties and retired, and is walking from Bayonne to Santiago. When he was just outside Burgos he encountered a snake

    Apparently he's used to snakes and reptiles so stopped to take a closer look, he thought it looked harmless and relaxed

    He was very wrong. He'd met one of the few, very rare, venomous snakes native to the region and got bitten

    He was found pretty soon, swollen and suffering, by fellow peregrinos who called for help

    Travis spent four days in Burgos hospital recovering, then continued his walk. He's now going at my pace to try to catch up with his original plan so he doesn't have to change his further travel plans

    But he's reconsidering everything. He thinks he's fallen in love with his nurse in Burgos and might have to come back to Spain very soon to try to win her heart, then hopefully live here

    It might all be bullshit, though it did look like a genuine snakebite on his arm and he was very convincing..



  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Touch of the Earl of Southamptons?
    Something rotten in the state of Downing Street?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    megasaur said:

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    Yup.
    Available where? I can only see Oct to Dec at very short odds on oddschecker
    Here

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.223758498
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 190
    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon!"

    "taH pagh, taH be?"
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    megasaur said:

    The 12 available for a December election - five years since the last one, but not as transparently desperate as January - is amazing value.

    Yup.
    Available where? I can only see Oct to Dec at very short odds on oddschecker
    Here

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.223758498
    Thanks took the 5 quid available
  • SteveSSteveS Posts: 190
    On topic, I wouldn’t trust Nad to have the inside info even if Boris was in No 10!

    I have just laid off my June and July positions. I personally think October before the clocks go back (24th) but am green on November too.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    edited April 26

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    edited April 26
    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Good example. Yes he absolutely is

    See the French President fawning over him

    Elton John is like a royal duke. Now one can argue that celebrity plus artistry plus wealth has meant poshness for a while but I believe this process is accelerating

    Look at the Beckhams. They are the new aristocracy. Brooklyn Beckham
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    edited April 26

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Touch of the Earl of Southamptons?
    It is said that the most famous sonnet of all ('Shall I compare thee to a summer's day...) was addressed to the Earl of Southampton.

    Sounds a bit unlikely to me. Why would you write a sonnet to a pub?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited April 26
    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Good example. Yes he absolutely is

    See the French President fawning over him

    Elton John is like a royal duke. Now one can argue that celebrity plus artistry plus wealth has meant poshness for a while but I believe this process is accelerating

    Look at the Beckhams. They are the new aristocracy. Brooklyn Beckham
    Poshness is being dislocated from accent to some degree.

    The children at my daughter’s state primary in SE London: almost all speak RP. Near-universally posher accents than their parents or teachers. Why? I can only surmise it’s something to do with the international mix there. Socially it’s the full spectrum.

    The man who came to delivery our grocery shop this afternoon: RP. But in a menial minimum wage job.

    Kids at my son’s private secondary school, most of whose parents work in very well paid city jobs? London urban jive talk.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Good example. Yes he absolutely is

    See the French President fawning over him

    Elton John is like a royal duke. Now one can argue that celebrity plus artistry plus wealth has meant poshness for a while but I believe this process is accelerating

    Look at the Beckhams. They are the new aristocracy. Brooklyn Beckham
    Poshness is being dislocated from accent to some degree.

    The children at my daughter’s state primary in SE London: almost all speak RP. Near-universally posher accents than their parents or teachers. Why? I can only surmise it’s something to do with the international mix there. Socially it’s the full spectrum.

    The man who came to delivery our grocery shop this afternoon: RP. But in a menial minimum wage job.

    Kids at my son’s private secondary school, most of whose parents work in very well paid city jobs? London urban jive talk.
    Dey is ignorant people!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    What football teams do posh people support then? I'd have thought there were plenty of posh people in Hertfordshire.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Touch of the Earl of Southamptons?
    If we're talking Sunak, shouldn't that be Littlehampton?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    edited April 26
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Good example. Yes he absolutely is

    See the French President fawning over him

    Elton John is like a royal duke. Now one can argue that celebrity plus artistry plus wealth has meant poshness for a while but I believe this process is accelerating

    Look at the Beckhams. They are the new aristocracy. Brooklyn Beckham
    Poshness is being dislocated from accent to some degree.

    The children at my daughter’s state primary in SE London: almost all speak RP. Near-universally posher accents than their parents or teachers. Why? I can only surmise it’s something to do with the international mix there. Socially it’s the full spectrum.

    The man who came to delivery our grocery shop this afternoon: RP. But in a menial minimum wage job.

    Kids at my son’s private secondary school, most of whose parents work in very well paid city jobs? London urban jive talk.
    For me the New Poshness now = Actual Achievement and Experience and/or Celebrity Value (calibrated by social media)

    I’d argue Elon Musk is the poshest person in the world. Because poshness means nothing if it doesn’t mean ability to impress by sheer social standing. That is what it IS


    I feel posher than 99.999999% of humanity - certainly everyone on PB - even tho I went to state school and lots of PB-ers are, in the old fashioned sense, posh (public school, old names, blah blah). But if I met Elon? Yes I would reflexively genuflect at a man with much higher social standing than my own
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Something to take pride in.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,111
    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those areas and make money somewhere they don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will become increasingly diminished even within the UK.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Oh god the cringe. No one will ever say that. I hope
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Something to take pride in.
    That's the mane thing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited April 26
    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Oh god the cringe. No one will ever say that. I hope
    If you liked that, you'll love that the combined East London* and South London** Lines will become the "Windrush Line".

    * Highbury to West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross
    ** Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Good example. Yes he absolutely is

    See the French President fawning over him

    Elton John is like a royal duke. Now one can argue that celebrity plus artistry plus wealth has meant poshness for a while but I believe this process is accelerating

    Look at the Beckhams. They are the new aristocracy. Brooklyn Beckham
    Poshness is being dislocated from accent to some degree.

    The children at my daughter’s state primary in SE London: almost all speak RP. Near-universally posher accents than their parents or teachers. Why? I can only surmise it’s something to do with the international mix there. Socially it’s the full spectrum.

    The man who came to delivery our grocery shop this afternoon: RP. But in a menial minimum wage job.

    Kids at my son’s private secondary school, most of whose parents work in very well paid city jobs? London urban jive talk.
    For me the New Poshness now = Actual Achievement and Experience and/or Celebrity Value (calibrated by social media)

    I’d argue Elon Musk is the poshest person in the world. Because poshness means nothing if it doesn’t mean ability to impress by sheer social standing. That is what it IS


    I feel posher than 99.999999% of humanity - certainly everyone on PB - even tho I went to state school and lots of PB-ers are, in the old fashioned sense, posh (public school, old names, blah blah). But if I met Elon? Yes I would reflexively genuflect at a man with much higher social standing than my own
    For that level of poshness you must have at least seven types of Balsamic in your kitchen.

    Plus, of course, shaved parmesan.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986

    CPI for April due to be announced 15 or 22 May, could be on target 2%! Rishi will be aware of this and could use this in the campaign as a CON triumph 😈

    It wasn't on target last month but we'll see how much of a silk purse can be made out of the various sows and ears around the great five pledges.

    Techne about the same as last think but a four point drop for the Conservatives with We Think. We Think 59-34, Techne 59-35 and the three most recent polls all have Labour leads back over 20 points.

    Comparing the latest YouGov with the equivalent poll a week before the 2021 local elections the Conservatives are down 22, Labour up 12 and Reform up 10. This mirrors what we're seeing in other polls with the 2019 Conservative vote fragmenting equally between Labour and Reform.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Good example. Yes he absolutely is

    See the French President fawning over him

    Elton John is like a royal duke. Now one can argue that celebrity plus artistry plus wealth has meant poshness for a while but I believe this process is accelerating

    Look at the Beckhams. They are the new aristocracy. Brooklyn Beckham
    Poshness is being dislocated from accent to some degree.

    The children at my daughter’s state primary in SE London: almost all speak RP. Near-universally posher accents than their parents or teachers. Why? I can only surmise it’s something to do with the international mix there. Socially it’s the full spectrum.

    The man who came to delivery our grocery shop this afternoon: RP. But in a menial minimum wage job.

    Kids at my son’s private secondary school, most of whose parents work in very well paid city jobs? London urban jive talk.
    For me the New Poshness now = Actual Achievement and Experience and/or Celebrity Value (calibrated by social media)

    I’d argue Elon Musk is the poshest person in the world. Because poshness means nothing if it doesn’t mean ability to impress by sheer social standing. That is what it IS


    I feel posher than 99.999999% of humanity - certainly everyone on PB - even tho I went to state school and lots of PB-ers are, in the old fashioned sense, posh (public school, old names, blah blah). But if I met Elon? Yes I would reflexively genuflect at a man with much higher social standing than my own
    For that level of poshness you must have at least seven types of Balsamic in your kitchen.

    Plus, of course, shaved parmesan.
    Do the really posh not have their own parmesan graters?

    Assuming it isn't their day off, of course...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Oh god the cringe. No one will ever say that. I hope
    If you liked that, you'll love that the combined East London* and South London** Lines will become the "Windrush Line".

    * Highbury to West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross
    ** Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction
    The windrush line is fine, not cringe at all. It sounds like a rural steam railway in Hampshire.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Oh incidentally, large clusters of giant spiders have been spotted on Mars from satellites in orbit. There is no need to be alarmed. Honest

    https://futurism.com/the-byte/orbiter-spots-spiders-surface-mars

    (buys canned food and shotguns :))
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Touch of the Earl of Southamptons?
    It is said that the most famous sonnet of all ('Shall I compare thee to a summer's day...) was addressed to the Earl of Southampton.

    Sounds a bit unlikely to me. Why would you write a sonnet to a pub?
    In the days of landlines and directory inquiries a friend of mine asked to be put through to the Marquess of Anglesey in London, and asked if John Doe was in the bar. And found after a confused conversation that he had been put through to the actual Marquess of actual Anglesey.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    I found out the other day that she's Swedish. I thought she was English
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Oh god the cringe. No one will ever say that. I hope
    If you liked that, you'll love that the combined East London* and South London** Lines will become the "Windrush Line".

    * Highbury to West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross
    ** Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction
    The windrush line is fine, not cringe at all. It sounds like a rural steam railway in Hampshire.
    The day before my holiday I was working in Chiseldon (aka M4 J15)

    I delivered to houses called Windrush and Hillsborough
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    I like the fact that the iPlayer site lists The Hollow Crown as 'series 1'. Just wondering if Shakespeare is planning to do a series 2 anytime soon?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    viewcode said:

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    I found out the other day that she's Swedish. I thought she was English
    Half and half. Ferguson is her mother’s maiden name & she uses it as her stage name

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    I like the fact that the iPlayer site lists The Hollow Crown as 'series 1'. Just wondering if Shakespeare is planning to do a series 2 anytime soon?
    There is a series two.

    Click 'The War Of The Roses' next to series 1.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    FPT:
    Andy_JS said:

    We couldn't be this lucky. Could we?


    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar
    ·
    1h
    In a sign of how febrile the atmosphere in Westminster is just now, there have been wild rumours flying around today that Rishi Sunak is planning to finally call an election on Monday. Read on

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1783900006157615453

    Why would a PM call a general election with local elections about to take place? Doesn't make any sense.
    Yes it does if:
    1. Your private polling suggests that your party is about to get reamed
    2. Your Chief Whip tells you that after your party gets reamed, they are going to oust you

    Pre-empt the Soviets and launch first...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    I like the fact that the iPlayer site lists The Hollow Crown as 'series 1'. Just wondering if Shakespeare is planning to do a series 2 anytime soon?
    Actually there are two series - Wars of the Roses (lots of Henry 6th and then Richard 3rd).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
    edited April 26
    Is it always desirable to be posh? Not sure it is.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564
    Interesting evening canvass of 200 homes in one of our weaker areas - a small town in Oxfordshire. A lot of very solid Labour support with some genuine enthusiasm - we are not used to the chance of winning here so supporters were excited by the idea, rather than particularly about Starmer or policies. A further chunk were tactical anti-Tory vote who will go with whoever seems the main challenger. Around 25% said flatly "No" with varying degrees of politeness, and another 25% were doubtful or apathetic, but almost nobody explicitly said they were enthusiastic about any other party.

    The usual entertaining encounters - one was the grand-daughter of Harold Wilson, another had just sent us £200, but two different people raised the "under Labour there was no money left" line, and one actually said "get off my land" in classic Tory style. Nobody mentioned Rayner, or Tory sleaze, or trans issues, or Gaza. One praised train nationalisation, but otherwise the burning issues of national politics seemed to have passed everyone by - people just want to remove the Tories and probably give Labour a try.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Andy_JS said:

    Is it always desirable to be posh? Not sure it is.

    Real life? No. Royalty? Yes. I want posh royalty like God intended. Literally, if you think about it... :)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Getting through to world leaders is about power, or maybe influence, not poshness.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Oh god the cringe. No one will ever say that. I hope
    If you liked that, you'll love that the combined East London* and South London** Lines will become the "Windrush Line".

    * Highbury to West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross
    ** Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction
    The windrush line is fine, not cringe at all. It sounds like a rural steam railway in Hampshire.
    Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside is to become the "Suffragette Line".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    Andy_JS said:

    Is it always desirable to be posh? Not sure it is.

    Yes, I sound like a cross between Adrian Chiles and Jasper Carrott. I'd rather sound like James Mason or Patrick Macnee.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    I agree with about posh. But not your analysis of said lady, or at least the reason to do things with said lady. As a man you should surely understand that when one has women constantly throwing themselves at oneself it's practically ones duty to take a mistress or 500.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    stodge said:

    CPI for April due to be announced 15 or 22 May, could be on target 2%! Rishi will be aware of this and could use this in the campaign as a CON triumph 😈

    It wasn't on target last month but we'll see how much of a silk purse can be made out of the various sows and ears around the great five pledges.

    Techne about the same as last think but a four point drop for the Conservatives with We Think. We Think 59-34, Techne 59-35 and the three most recent polls all have Labour leads back over 20 points.

    Comparing the latest YouGov with the equivalent poll a week before the 2021 local elections the Conservatives are down 22, Labour up 12 and Reform up 10. This mirrors what we're seeing in other polls with the 2019 Conservative vote fragmenting equally between Labour and Reform.
    The last five polls for Techne have been remarkably consistent (Con-Lab):
    23-44
    22-45
    23-44
    22-45
    23-44
    Someone try to tell me there's a trend in that!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    viewcode said:

    Oh incidentally, large clusters of giant spiders have been spotted on Mars from satellites in orbit. There is no need to be alarmed. Honest

    https://futurism.com/the-byte/orbiter-spots-spiders-surface-mars

    (buys canned food and shotguns :))

    Don't worry, while they will initially wage effective war, our bird flu will kill them all.

    I've read the book and got the LP.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 26

    Andy_JS said:

    Is it always desirable to be posh? Not sure it is.

    Yes, I sound like a cross between Adrian Chiles and Jasper Carrott. I'd rather sound like James Mason or Patrick Macnee.
    I am very proud of my Yorkshire accent.

    I still get called a posh boy/aristo twat/toff by my friends.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 812
    Leon said:


    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    You describe an interesting phenomena that is probably a more useful term than "posh" these days for the reasons you give. But you don't get to redefine the original term. Come up with one of your own. That way you even get to name it :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    viewcode said:

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    I found out the other day that she's Swedish. I thought she was English
    Half and half. Ferguson is her mother’s maiden name & she uses it as her stage name

    She is rather fab, loved her in the Mission: Impossible films.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    Last trip to Chequers for Sunak?

    It's gotta be a sign that he is going there for the weekend.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,111

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    I agree with the sentiment but I think poshness has a specific connotation around specific social norms and behaviours.

    What you term the top echelon is better described as 'the elite' than 'posh'. In the UK, the elite = posh for a long time, and still to this day to some extent. For the world as a whole it is not the case.

    I'm sure there are lots of pros and cons of the different types of societal elite that I'll remain blissfully ignorant of.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    viewcode said:

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    I found out the other day that she's Swedish. I thought she was English
    Half and half. Ferguson is her mother’s maiden name & she uses it as her stage name

    She is rather fab, loved her in the Mission: Impossible films.
    Hayley Atwell looked more OK than her in the latest instalment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Touch of the Earl of Southamptons?
    Something rotten in the state of Downing Street?
    Time must have a stop.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    You shouldn't watch this, because even though it has got Rebecca Ferguson snd Aneurin Barnard in it, it is in common with all adaptations of Philippa Gregory's work unutterably shit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    I agree with about posh. But not your analysis of said lady, or at least the reason to do things with said lady. As a man you should surely understand that when one has women constantly throwing themselves at oneself it's practically ones duty to take a mistress or 500.
    I have no insider knowledge, but I can't see William being that much of a stud - there being no chance of the girl becoming a princess, and the tragic loss of his hair at such a young age.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Getting through to world leaders is about power, or maybe influence, not poshness.
    We need a new word then

    Because if poshness bestows little to zero social benefit on its owners then what is it? Maybe it becomes mere etiquette, and about as important. Not nothing, but not much either
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    Ratters said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    I agree with the sentiment but I think poshness has a specific connotation around specific social norms and behaviours.

    What you term the top echelon is better described as 'the elite' than 'posh'. In the UK, the elite = posh for a long time, and still to this day to some extent. For the world as a whole it is not the case.

    I'm sure there are lots of pros and cons of the different types of societal elite that I'll remain blissfully ignorant of.
    Yes, posh is different to political connections.

    The real paradox is that people who describe themselves as posh almost never are.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Surely, TSE, the election will be called tomorrow.

    And tomorrow, and tomorrow......

    It’s a tale told by an idiot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Leon said:


    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    You describe an interesting phenomena that is probably a more useful term than "posh" these days for the reasons you give. But you don't get to redefine the original term. Come up with one of your own. That way you even get to name it :)
    Yeah we need a new word

    Relatedly I am reading a brilliant biography of napoleon by Adam Zamoyski. The Corsican general who came from nowhere in an age of revolution….
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    Night night PB!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Poshness is nothing to do with power.

    (And Musk will only get his calls returns so long as he is useful to Putin. That’s a supplicant relationship)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121

    viewcode said:

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    I found out the other day that she's Swedish. I thought she was English
    Half and half. Ferguson is her mother’s maiden name & she uses it as her stage name

    She is rather fab, loved her in the Mission: Impossible films.
    Hayley Atwell looked more OK than her in the latest instalment.
    If you want more Rebecca Ferguson she's the lead in Silo on Apple TV.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    SteveS said:

    Indeed. Is Elton John posh? Discuss.

    Eh?

    The man supports Watford, ffs.
    The Euston to Watford service on the London Overground is due to be renamed "Lioness Line" later this year.
    Oh god the cringe. No one will ever say that. I hope
    If you liked that, you'll love that the combined East London* and South London** Lines will become the "Windrush Line".

    * Highbury to West Croydon/Crystal Palace/New Cross
    ** Dalston Junction to Clapham Junction
    The windrush line is fine, not cringe at all. It sounds like a rural steam railway in Hampshire.
    Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside is to become the "Suffragette Line".
    Whereas that is cringe. The name needs to trip off the tongue. Suffragette is too forced. Like lioness. Whereas windrush just sounds like you’d expect a railway line to be.

    Pankhurst line would be fine, so would Fawcett line.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Dirty Leeds now 3-0 down. Leicester will be back in the prem in around 15 mins.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,980
    I'm now a week into the walk and I'm sure you're all itching to hear the latest numbers

    I've walked 402,017 steps so far, an average of 57,431 per day

    276.44km - 39.49km per day

    61 hours and 46 minutes of walking - 8 hours 49 minutes per day

    If I don't get bitten by a venomous snake I might make it in twenty days
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Poshness is nothing to do with power.

    (And Musk will only get his calls returns so long as he is useful to Putin. That’s a supplicant relationship)
    Utter bullshit. And stupid, as well
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    ydoethur said:

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    You shouldn't watch this, because even though it has got Rebecca Ferguson snd Aneurin Barnard in it, it is in common with all adaptations of Philippa Gregory's work unutterably shit.
    I disagree. The White Queen was a very enjoyable romp. It only had a tangential connection to history, but that doesn’t stop it being enjoying. Trying to keep track of all the characters gave my brain a work out.

    (Margaret Beaufort is one of those enigmas)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Sure, but all that is beside the point of posh. If you're doing so well and your status is so high in the modern world, you shouldn't need that to be 'posh' - you should get on with your thing and just let the posh be irrelevantly posh.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    ydoethur said:

    I think I am on a bit of a Shakespeare bender at the moment if you hadn't noticed.

    Time for The Hollow Crown.

    Is that the one with Rebecca Ferguson?
    No, this one.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b07bqgjn/the-hollow-crown?seriesId=p00s90hz
    You should watch this (and not just because it’s got Rebecca in it):

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2372220/mediaviewer/rm2803948800/?ft0=name&fv0=nm0272581&ft1=image_type&fv1=still_frame

    You shouldn't watch this, because even though it has got Rebecca Ferguson snd Aneurin Barnard in it, it is in common with all adaptations of Philippa Gregory's work unutterably shit.
    I disagree. The White Queen was a very enjoyable romp. It only had a tangential connection to history, but that doesn’t stop it being enjoying. Trying to keep track of all the characters gave my brain a work out.

    (Margaret Beaufort is one of those enigmas)
    The characters were badly written.

    The dialogue was egregious.

    The plotting was pathetic.

    The sets were so badly prepared they were full of comical goofs.

    The direction was inept.

    The acting was indifferent.

    Apart from those minor details, it was perfectly OK.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned

    Getting through to world leaders is about power, or maybe influence, not poshness.
    We need a new word then

    Because if poshness bestows little to zero social benefit on its owners then what is it? Maybe it becomes mere etiquette, and about as important. Not nothing, but not much either
    It has social benefit. It’s the entry to a world where people are relaxed in each other’s company, never worry about money and have nothing to prove.

    That’s not power, or fame, access, or wealth. It’s “an England at ease with itself”
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    edited April 26
    Andy_JS said:
    I don't think the previous independent incumbent was a secret nat..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned

    Getting through to world leaders is about power, or maybe influence, not poshness.
    We need a new word then

    Because if poshness bestows little to zero social benefit on its owners then what is it? Maybe it becomes mere etiquette, and about as important. Not nothing, but not much either
    It has social benefit. It’s the entry to a world where people are relaxed in each other’s company, never worry about money and have nothing to prove.

    That’s not power, or fame, access, or wealth. It’s “an England at ease with itself”
    Who gives a fuck about miserable old England
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a
    knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Poshness is nothing to do with power.

    (And Musk will only get his calls returns so long as he is useful to Putin. That’s a supplicant relationship)
    Utter bullshit. And stupid, as well
    I know. I wouldn’t want to be Musk either.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Dirty Leeds now 3-0 down. Leicester will be back in the prem in around 15 mins.

    I will be delighted to go up with Ipswich. They have done amazingly well to be in the running for back to back promotions on a shoestring. Good to watch too.

    WBA go up in the playoffs I reckon. Best side I have seen us play this season.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a
    knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned
    Poshness is nothing to do with power.

    (And Musk will only get his calls returns so long as he is useful to Putin. That’s a supplicant relationship)
    Utter bullshit. And stupid, as well
    I know. I wouldn’t want to be Musk either.
    Are you “traditionally posh”? Public school, good surname, etc?

    I’m not, I happily admit. You?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    @Leon

    I don't think poshness is changing. Of course, social kudos is always changing - girls want to be instafamous now, they don't all dream of being Lady Diana Spencer. However, I think poshness is at it ever was. And indeed, the young lady at the centre of swirling rumours concerning the Wales's marriage, has nothing going for her that Kate doesn't (I think she's less good looking), except that she is firmly of the horsey upper class. The comfort zone of posh is posh.

    No, I’m sorry, that’s wrong

    Poshness means literally zero if it can’t be exercised to effect in the socio-political world

    Class still matters of course (esp in the UK) - but once you’ve learned to speak RP and learned how to use a knife and say scone (like “gone”) and how to do all the other tiny things that bespeak social elevation then it fades away entirely these days. And, btw, it takes about 12 weeks to learn the social codes of English poshness if you really insist on doing it

    Beyond that, what does it mean? Nothing. If someone met me and said in the second sentence “by the way I’m the 13th Duke of Lancashire” I’d think 1. That’s mildly interesting and 2. This person is a fucking twat

    So how does he announce that he is socially
    and - more importantly - where does this alleged superiority get him with me? Nowhere. It is positively counter productive for the personal reasons I’ve delineated (I’ve done more than him and been more places than him and earned more from my own brain than him, for sure)

    What, then, is his poshness? How does it matter?

    To me it doesn’t. To my daughters maybe yes a tiny bit (for marriage) but they’d be far better off marrying a Silicon Valley tech bro and they’d also be more engaged by that

    There! I have my gazette article

    POSHNESS IS OVER

    Thanks (also I do really believe this)
    Is that not just a sign of the world in which there are far, far more rich Americans than there are rich, posh English? The newly rich from many countries may try to emulated 'posh', but Americans are far more brash with their wealth.

    But for Brits, in practice there are still a significant number of well paid areas where
    the upper echelons are for the posh.

    The solution of course is to ignore those
    areas and make money somewhere they
    don't care about 'poshness'. The posh will
    become increasingly diminished even within
    the UK.
    Poshness is just short hand for “someone who is broadly accepted to be in the top echelon of society”.

    Every society is different - in the US it is money or philanthropy. I would argue that Lilly, Pritzker or Phipps families are far “posher” than Musk. But you’ve probably never heard of them…

    In the UK it is lineage. The Beckhams are admired for what they have achieved as individuals. But no one has that much positive to say about the kids.

    But it’s bollocks. Who can personally call Vlad Putin and expect an immediate reply? It’s not the 19th earl of Shropshire is it? Nor is it the Pritzkers

    Its Musk

    Outside major major political leaders he has greater actual power and higher social standing than any of them. And by a vast distance

    The Habsburgs USED to have that. Now it is merely a quaint surname and a knowledge to leave the last waistcoat button, unbuttoned

    Getting through to world leaders is about power, or maybe influence, not poshness.
    We need a new word then

    Because if poshness bestows little to zero social benefit on its owners then what is it? Maybe it becomes mere etiquette, and about as important. Not nothing, but not much either
    It has social benefit. It’s the entry to a world where people are relaxed in each other’s company, never worry about money and have nothing to prove.

    That’s not power, or fame, access, or wealth. It’s “an England at ease with itself”
    Who gives a fuck about miserable old England
    You are denying it because you don’t understand it. You feel excluded and insecure about it. You envy and fear it. It’s an ineffable sense of being. It’s like obscenity: you can’t define it but you know when you see it.
This discussion has been closed.