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Who knew the London elite were so numerous? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Brittany is great fun. I can see why you’d come here on holiday if you’re prepared to risk shit weather (I wouldn’t, if it was my only family holiday - it’s also quite pricey)

    Observations: it can be very bleak. Rundown towns with dying industries. Rows of post covid shuttered shops (as bad as British towns for sure)

    Bretons are short dark and hairy. Not tall red haired blonde Celts. But which is the true Celtic type?!

    Cornouaille really is like Cornwall. Maybe not as intensely pretty in its best spots, but with a greater sense of space and urbanity

    I have spent millions of days there over my life - haven’t done the part you are in. I Mostly go to Dinan, Dinard and St Malo in the north and La Baule in the south (it’s technically Loire Atlantique now but very much considered Breton).

    Dinan is a beautiful medieval river port, Dinard is a very relaxed but actually v preppy/wealthy beach town which is packed with upper class frenchies in the summer, St Malo you probs know anyway and La Baule is very smart beach resort, very few Brits etc, wealthy French for the beaches and casino. Love them all whatever the weather tbh.
    I don’t know them at all so Oooh

    How exciting to have a whole new region of France to discover! I feel like I’m starting an unexpected and highly regarded new season of the Sopranos
    I also need to get my arse to Carnac and might do it this summer as it looks bloody impressive - you will love it, bazillions of big carved stones.

    Also if you are into spas they are big into their thalassotherapy spas on the coast in Brittany.
    Small stones in Carnac, but many, many acres of them
    It’s disappointing isn’t it? I got zero vibes from Carnac and I was super receptive
    Try the Outer Hebrides. Or at any rate the Uists. There are prehistoric monuments dotted around but you need to tramp across the moors with compass and OS map to find them. Very rewarding when you do. Last time I did that the only company I had was a golden eagle. Its a remarkable landscape.
    While I enjoy the reportage of Leon and Blanche Livermore and others sending words and pictures from around the globe - the paragraph above really made me lament the brevity of life and all the years of my youth when I could have been doing things like that, but didn't.
    Do it all when you're retired Cookie!
    Thanks Ben. That's the hope! Or even just after the kids have grown up. I'll be 57 when my youngest reaches 18. Hopefully there will still be plenty of life left in my legs by then!
    57 is still easily young enough to see the world! Look at @Big_G_NorthWales

    And all life is full of regret. I regret not having a better family life, but it’s just not me. I’m not the domestic type. My kids have suffered for that and I will always feel guilty

    But it would have been worse if I’d tried to pervert my own nature and ended up angry and embittered and probably broke
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    Sure, but that's not how HMG and MoD do things.

    Not as if there were some nice RoFs all waiting to be used.

    And buying off shelf, often, means just giving jobs and profits away. Because the production lines are elsewhere. Not to mention a lot of the companies are multinational. BAe doesn't *mean* British Aerospace any molre. What's the biggest automotive UK firm? Morgan Motors?

  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    For our oenophiles.

    Brahms walked into a liquor store and asked for a good bottle of wine. The clerk, having recognized him, returned with a Riesling, saying: "This vintage is to wines what Brahms is to music." Brahms looked it over, smiled, and said: "Well then, please bring me a bottle of Bach."
    https://twitter.com/tonyprinciotti/status/1782434216220729536
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited April 23
    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    Sure, but that's not how HMG and MoD do things.

    Not as if there were some nice RoFs all waiting to be used.

    And buying off shelf, often, means just giving jobs and profits away. Because the production lines are elsewhere. Not to mention a lot of the companies are multinational. BAe doesn't *mean* British Aerospace any molre. What's the biggest automotive UK firm? Morgan Motors?

    I thought Morgan was owned by the Italians.

    So probably Triking (!), or similar. Triking is run out of a shed in deepest Norfolk.

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/uk-car-industry-who-owns-british-brands-ross-hall/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Carnyx said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    Sure, but that's not how HMG and MoD do things.

    Not as if there were some nice RoFs all waiting to be used.

    And buying off shelf, often, means just giving jobs and profits away. Because the production lines are elsewhere. Not to mention a lot of the companies are multinational. BAe doesn't *mean* British Aerospace any molre. What's the biggest automotive UK firm? Morgan Motors?

    But if you want to build a capability, you need to buy off the shelf. The factory is part of the deal at a certain size of order. That’s pretty standard in the defence industry.

    In the case of Archer, if you ordered 500, you’d either wait about 20 years for them to be produced or build a factory to make them.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    MattW said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
    Would that be the one building the ferries?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    ...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
    Would that be the one building the ferries?
    The one I am thinking of is a new hall which can build 2 frigates side-by-side, indoors.
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/huge-new-glasgow-frigate-factory-progresses/

    (@Dura_Ace may be along in a minute to point something out.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited April 23

    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens

    At 3 - 0 they are increasing their goal difference especially to Liverpool and pushing City to win their games

    Make that Arsenal 4
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Just read that, gives me an excuse to post this.

    There's been much talk today about the lack of "rancour" as Liberal Democrats agonise amongst themselves over how to vote in Thursday's Commons decision on tuition fees.

    I can't help wondering if the ghost of Roy Jenkins has appeared?

    Lord Jenkins, a former Lib Dem leader in the Lords, and before that leader of the SDP, and a Labour Cabinet minister, had a famous difficulty in not being able to pronounce the letter "R". It often came out as a "W".

    In 1976, Jenkins resigned from Parliament to become President of the European Commission, and his Labour colleague David Marquand also resigned his seat to help Jenkins in Brussels.

    Jenkins addressed his fellow Labour MPs and tried to tell them he was leaving "without rancour".

    Only because of his speech impediment, it didn't quite come out like that. Whereupon, Dennis Skinner shouted out to great laughter: "I though you were taking Marquand with you!"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/michaelcrick/2010/12/lack_of_lib_dem_rancour_calls.html
    Didn't Marquand have more parties* than Boris Johnson attended during lockdown?

    * Political parties.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Doesn't today's tragedy confirm Sunak's genius?

    (I still think it immoral, but the media seem to be loving Rwanda)
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens

    At 3 - 0 they are increasing their goal difference especially to Liverpool and pushing City to win their games
    City still massive favourites.

    But no one has won it 4 times in a row. Will the pressure get to them?!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited April 23
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Brittany is great fun. I can see why you’d come here on holiday if you’re prepared to risk shit weather (I wouldn’t, if it was my only family holiday - it’s also quite pricey)

    Observations: it can be very bleak. Rundown towns with dying industries. Rows of post covid shuttered shops (as bad as British towns for sure)

    Bretons are short dark and hairy. Not tall red haired blonde Celts. But which is the true Celtic type?!

    Cornouaille really is like Cornwall. Maybe not as intensely pretty in its best spots, but with a greater sense of space and urbanity

    I have spent millions of days there over my life - haven’t done the part you are in. I Mostly go to Dinan, Dinard and St Malo in the north and La Baule in the south (it’s technically Loire Atlantique now but very much considered Breton).

    Dinan is a beautiful medieval river port, Dinard is a very relaxed but actually v preppy/wealthy beach town which is packed with upper class frenchies in the summer, St Malo you probs know anyway and La Baule is very smart beach resort, very few Brits etc, wealthy French for the beaches and casino. Love them all whatever the weather tbh.
    I don’t know them at all so Oooh

    How exciting to have a whole new region of France to discover! I feel like I’m starting an unexpected and highly regarded new season of the Sopranos
    I also need to get my arse to Carnac and might do it this summer as it looks bloody impressive - you will love it, bazillions of big carved stones.

    Also if you are into spas they are big into their thalassotherapy spas on the coast in Brittany.
    Small stones in Carnac, but many, many acres of them
    It’s disappointing isn’t it? I got zero vibes from Carnac and I was super receptive
    Try the Outer Hebrides. Or at any rate the Uists. There are prehistoric monuments dotted around but you need to tramp across the moors with compass and OS map to find them. Very rewarding when you do. Last time I did that the only company I had was a golden eagle. Its a remarkable landscape.
    While I enjoy the reportage of Leon and Blanche Livermore and others sending words and pictures from around the globe - the paragraph above really made me lament the brevity of life and all the years of my youth when I could have been doing things like that, but didn't.
    Do it all when you're retired Cookie!
    Thanks Ben. That's the hope! Or even just after the kids have grown up. I'll be 57 when my youngest reaches 18. Hopefully there will still be plenty of life left in my legs by then!
    God willing you'll have many years from then on. The key challenge is to find reasons to do things rather than reasons not to do them.

    Having watched my parent's generation it's dawned on me that age inclines you to say 'no, I can't be bothered'. Never mind 'Rage, Rage against the dying of the light', focus on 'Rage, Rage against not going on that flight'.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited April 23

    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens

    At 3 - 0 they are increasing their goal difference especially to Liverpool and pushing City to win their games
    City still massive favourites.

    But no one has won it 4 times in a row. Will the pressure get to them?!
    There is always the first time and I cannot see City letting the pressure getting to them

    And Arsenal have 5
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
    Would that be the one building the ferries?
    The one I am thinking of is a new hall which can build 2 frigates side-by-side, indoors.
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/huge-new-glasgow-frigate-factory-progresses/

    (@Dura_Ace may be along in a minute to point something out.)
    Anyone can preassemble steel sections that have been prefabricated elserwhere, that's not in doubt. One would however want to know the production rate, and whether it can be increased, for critical elements such as engines and weapon systems and radars. (The gun turrets and the steam turbines were the crucial limiting steps for battleships in the C20, for instance.) That would tend to mean off the shelf stuff, with no MoD style messign around.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    A shame. He took a politics course I did at Shedfield University in the 90s. I kiked him a lot.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The "UN" is full of vested interests, lobby groups and brutal power politics.

    It's not the nice international democratic rational body that everyone thinks it is.

    In this case, it tells you it's worried Rwanda might work.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    My back of the envelope a few weeks ago was that, to restore our defence posture of the late 1990s (probably roundabout what we need now) and the force that goes with it, we'd need to spend 3.3-3.4% of GDP. And the longer we leave it the higher I expect the spend will eventually end up needing to be.

    Nevertheless a pledge to raise to 2.5% by 2030 is at least a start.
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    MattW said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
    I think this bit was fairly clear:
    … The prime minister said he would put the UK defence industry on a “war footing”, with £10bn invested in munitions production, as Ukraine showed that countries needed “deeper stockpiles” of weapons...

    It’s about a multi year funding commitment for sustained missile (and possibly shell ?) production, the previous lack of which has precluded the building of more production capacity.
    That’s sensible stuff.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens

    At 3 - 0 they are increasing their goal difference especially to Liverpool and pushing City to win their games
    City still massive favourites.

    But no one has won it 4 times in a row. Will the pressure get to them?!
    There is always the first time and I cannot see City letting the pressure getting to them

    And Arsenal have 5
    Indeed. Hope Arsenal win but I don't think it's happening
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96

    My back of the envelope a few weeks ago was that, to restore our defence posture of the late 1990s (probably roundabout what we need now) and the force that goes with it, we'd need to spend 3.3-3.4% of GDP. And the longer we leave it the higher I expect the spend will eventually end up needing to be.

    Nevertheless a pledge to raise to 2.5% by 2030 is at least a start.

    And dont forget the late 90s were peaceful times compared to now.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Wonder if he was related to Return of the Jedi director, Richard Marquand?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    GIN1138 said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Wonder if he was related to Return of the Jedi director, Richard Marquand?
    Richard was his younger brother
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Brittany is great fun. I can see why you’d come here on holiday if you’re prepared to risk shit weather (I wouldn’t, if it was my only family holiday - it’s also quite pricey)

    Observations: it can be very bleak. Rundown towns with dying industries. Rows of post covid shuttered shops (as bad as British towns for sure)

    Bretons are short dark and hairy. Not tall red haired blonde Celts. But which is the true Celtic type?!

    Cornouaille really is like Cornwall. Maybe not as intensely pretty in its best spots, but with a greater sense of space and urbanity

    I have spent millions of days there over my life - haven’t done the part you are in. I Mostly go to Dinan, Dinard and St Malo in the north and La Baule in the south (it’s technically Loire Atlantique now but very much considered Breton).

    Dinan is a beautiful medieval river port, Dinard is a very relaxed but actually v preppy/wealthy beach town which is packed with upper class frenchies in the summer, St Malo you probs know anyway and La Baule is very smart beach resort, very few Brits etc, wealthy French for the beaches and casino. Love them all whatever the weather tbh.
    I don’t know them at all so Oooh

    How exciting to have a whole new region of France to discover! I feel like I’m starting an unexpected and highly regarded new season of the Sopranos
    I also need to get my arse to Carnac and might do it this summer as it looks bloody impressive - you will love it, bazillions of big carved stones.

    Also if you are into spas they are big into their thalassotherapy spas on the coast in Brittany.
    Small stones in Carnac, but many, many acres of them
    It’s disappointing isn’t it? I got zero vibes from Carnac and I was super receptive
    Try the Outer Hebrides. Or at any rate the Uists. There are prehistoric monuments dotted around but you need to tramp across the moors with compass and OS map to find them. Very rewarding when you do. Last time I did that the only company I had was a golden eagle. Its a remarkable landscape.
    While I enjoy the reportage of Leon and Blanche Livermore and others sending words and pictures from around the globe - the paragraph above really made me lament the brevity of life and all the years of my youth when I could have been doing things like that, but didn't.
    Do it all when you're retired Cookie!
    Thanks Ben. That's the hope! Or even just after the kids have grown up. I'll be 57 when my youngest reaches 18. Hopefully there will still be plenty of life left in my legs by then!
    God willing you'll have many years from then on. The key challenge is to find reasons to do things rather than reasons not to do them.

    Having watched my parent's generation it's dawned on me that age inclines you to say 'no, I can't be bothered'. Never mind 'Rage, Rage against the dying of the light', focus on 'Rage, Rage against not going on that flight'.
    I'm not too bothered about seeing the world. But I want to explore the obscurer peaks of Scotland. I want to cycle the Hebrides. I want to walk the SW coast path. I wlant to use my body while I still can.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    My back of the envelope a few weeks ago was that, to restore our defence posture of the late 1990s (probably roundabout what we need now) and the force that goes with it, we'd need to spend 3.3-3.4% of GDP. And the longer we leave it the higher I expect the spend will eventually end up needing to be.

    Nevertheless a pledge to raise to 2.5% by 2030 is at least a start.

    My feeling is that we are going to need as much as we can afford fairly soon. The demographic situation in China points to them considering military action sooner rather than later. The Russian crisis is now.
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    GIN1138 said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Wonder if he was related to Return of the Jedi director, Richard Marquand?
    He was his older brother.

    Their father was a MP and minister under Clement Attlee.
    Oh that's quite cool. He certainly lived a lot longer than his brother. Richard Marquand was still in his 40s when he died I think.
  • legatuslegatus Posts: 126

    GIN1138 said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Wonder if he was related to Return of the Jedi director, Richard Marquand?
    He was his older brother.

    Their father was a MP and minister under Clement Attlee.

    GIN1138 said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Wonder if he was related to Return of the Jedi director, Richard Marquand?
    He was his older brother.

    Their father was a MP and minister under Clement Attlee.
    Indeed - Hilary Marquand.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited April 23
    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    I confess to not knowing the Nicholas Winton story until we watched One Life last weekend.

    Inspiring man and a really good film - recommended.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Life_(2023_film)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    What are the chances of all that talent & achievement popping up in one (extended) family?!


    Clearly hereditary (by marriage also).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    Wonder if he was related to Return of the Jedi director, Richard Marquand?
    He was his older brother.

    Their father was a MP and minister under Clement Attlee.
    Oh that's quite cool. He certainly lived a lot longer than his brother. Richard Marquand was still in his 40s when he died I think.
    Yeah he was only 49:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Marquand
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    I've enjoyed several of his books over the years. RIP.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    On Marquand:

    Stewart Wood
    @StewartWood
    ·
    1h
    So sad to hear this. There was no-one better at capturing & explaining the essence of British political movements, in a way that combined an understanding of history, political philosophy & economics. He was also a lovely lovely man, brimming with enthusiasm & generosity.

    https://twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1782858814267531420
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Brittany is great fun. I can see why you’d come here on holiday if you’re prepared to risk shit weather (I wouldn’t, if it was my only family holiday - it’s also quite pricey)

    Observations: it can be very bleak. Rundown towns with dying industries. Rows of post covid shuttered shops (as bad as British towns for sure)

    Bretons are short dark and hairy. Not tall red haired blonde Celts. But which is the true Celtic type?!

    Cornouaille really is like Cornwall. Maybe not as intensely pretty in its best spots, but with a greater sense of space and urbanity

    I have spent millions of days there over my life - haven’t done the part you are in. I Mostly go to Dinan, Dinard and St Malo in the north and La Baule in the south (it’s technically Loire Atlantique now but very much considered Breton).

    Dinan is a beautiful medieval river port, Dinard is a very relaxed but actually v preppy/wealthy beach town which is packed with upper class frenchies in the summer, St Malo you probs know anyway and La Baule is very smart beach resort, very few Brits etc, wealthy French for the beaches and casino. Love them all whatever the weather tbh.
    I don’t know them at all so Oooh

    How exciting to have a whole new region of France to discover! I feel like I’m starting an unexpected and highly regarded new season of the Sopranos
    I also need to get my arse to Carnac and might do it this summer as it looks bloody impressive - you will love it, bazillions of big carved stones.

    Also if you are into spas they are big into their thalassotherapy spas on the coast in Brittany.
    Small stones in Carnac, but many, many acres of them
    It’s disappointing isn’t it? I got zero vibes from Carnac and I was super receptive
    Try the Outer Hebrides. Or at any rate the Uists. There are prehistoric monuments dotted around but you need to tramp across the moors with compass and OS map to find them. Very rewarding when you do. Last time I did that the only company I had was a golden eagle. Its a remarkable landscape.
    While I enjoy the reportage of Leon and Blanche Livermore and others sending words and pictures from around the globe - the paragraph above really made me lament the brevity of life and all the years of my youth when I could have been doing things like that, but didn't.
    Raising 3 children in a stable relationship whilst doing a job of work which is productive and legal is a herculean achievement.
    Ha - you are most kind.
    On which note, I will call the cat in and head to bed. G'night all.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    edited April 23

    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens

    At 3 - 0 they are increasing their goal difference especially to Liverpool and pushing City to win their games
    City still massive favourites.

    But no one has won it 4 times in a row. Will the pressure get to them?!
    There is always the first time and I cannot see City letting the pressure getting to them

    And Arsenal have 5
    Indeed. Hope Arsenal win but I don't think it's happening
    Genuinely thrilling title race. All three have a good chance.

    Arsenal great tonight - but it was also a flat Chelsea after their cup semi loss.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The "UN" is full of vested interests, lobby groups and brutal power politics.

    It's not the nice international democratic rational body that everyone thinks it is.

    In this case, it tells you it's worried Rwanda might work.
    Rwanda won't work - the problem is that nothing is likely to stop the boats....
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The "UN" is full of vested interests, lobby groups and brutal power politics.

    It's not the nice international democratic rational body that everyone thinks it is.

    In this case, it tells you it's worried Rwanda might work.
    Rwanda won't work - the problem is that nothing is likely to stop the boats....
    U.K. asylum clearing office in Calais? Or would those without genuine claims still try to cross?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Big Leicester won 5-0 too!

    Well done to @Foxy and other Leicester supporters they are up now 👍
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    Andy_JS said:

    Another day another Poll. Another requiring SKS fans to explain

    Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    ·
    12m
    📊 Labour lead at 16pts
    Westminster voting intention

    LAB: 43% (-)
    CON: 27% (+2)
    REF: 10% (+1)
    LDEM: 9% (-1)
    GRN: 4% (-)

    via
    @Savanta_UK
    , 19 Apr

    Do you regard this as a bad poll for Starmer?
    Well is all relative but yes

    IMO The final result will be
    Lab 37 to 39
    Con 32 to 35

    Which still results with SKS as PM
    SKSICIPM?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Big Leicester won 5-0 too!

    Well done to @Foxy and other Leicester supporters they are up now 👍

    Looks like it, although not totally nailed yet. Looks like they are over the wobble now.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 23
    A prehistoric stone structure in Brittany played a key role in the origins of Surrealism, and this has never been commented on in print, as far as I'm aware. But I'm not going to say which structure because there are malevolent Tory types here.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Big Leicester won 5-0 too!

    Well done to @Foxy and other Leicester supporters they are up now 👍

    Not yet, but looks like it now.

    Sunaks Southampton were awful.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The "UN" is full of vested interests, lobby groups and brutal power politics.

    It's not the nice international democratic rational body that everyone thinks it is.

    In this case, it tells you it's worried Rwanda might work.
    Rwanda won't work - the problem is that nothing is likely to stop the boats....
    U.K. asylum clearing office in Calais? Or would those without genuine claims still try to cross?
    The *only* asylum processing available would need to be overseas. So there's no way of claiming asylum from the UK.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,417

    Big if Arsenal can hold on. Better than last season. Gives them a chance of the Prem. Man City still favourites. Let's see what happens

    At 3 - 0 they are increasing their goal difference especially to Liverpool and pushing City to win their games
    City still massive favourites.

    But no one has won it 4 times in a row. Will the pressure get to them?!
    There is always the first time and I cannot see City letting the pressure getting to them

    And Arsenal have 5
    Indeed. Hope Arsenal win but I don't think it's happening
    Foxy will be pleased; almost certain Leicester will be going back up. Misdemeanours discounted, of course.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    GIN1138 said:
    “The days the polls turned…”

    (Too soon?)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    I had no idea there were so many equality and diversity officers in the civil service…
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    We tried to send Jewish refugees to Africa in 1938.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/41235984
  • Cookie said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    A shame. He took a politics course I did at Shedfield University in the 90s. I kiked him a lot.
    Yes, he was a superb lecturer.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Just got back from watching 'Nye' at the cinema (streamed live from London).

    I think everyone in the audience is voting Labour now......
    Oh wait. I live in Bootle. That was happening anyway!

    (It was very good - well worth a watch if people get chance)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Richard Johnson
    @richardmarcj
    ·
    1h
    Among many other things, David Marquand was one of few people still alive today who had dined with Clement Attlee.

    https://twitter.com/richardmarcj/status/1782860719286812867
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Nigelb said:



    That prompts me to remember this story.

    https://www.honest-broker.com/p/what-is-really-inside-the-briefcase
    ..I’m reminded of a favorite passage in a David Foster Wallace story, when a burnt-out young man—he describes himself as a wastoid—is shaken out of his complacency by (of all people) an accounting professor.

    This teacher berates his students, demanding that they aspire to heroism—but “not heroism as you might know it from films or the tales of childhood. . . . The truth is that the heroism of your childhood entertainments was not true valor. It was theater.”

    Grown-ups, he continues, must learn what real heroism is. The professor goes on to define it—in a way that both unsettled and inspired me when I first read it:

    “Welcome to the world of reality—there is no audience. No one to applaud, to admire. No one to see you. Do you understand? Here is the truth—actual heroism receives no ovation, entertains no one. . . . True heroism is minutes, hours, weeks, year upon year of the quiet, precise, judicious exercise of probity and care—with no one there to see and cheer. This is the world.”

    The ‘wastoid protagonist eventually finds fulfillment as a Certified Public Account working for the IRS...

    I've been doing it for twenty five years, and I don't feel a hero.
    I've achieved more outside my work than in.

    But maybe I'm misreading the quote........
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Why are civil servants so hated ? Ordinarily 70,000 people losing their jobs would be seen as awful. Do the thick DE readers even understand what they do?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    nico679 said:

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Why are civil servants so hated ? Ordinarily 70,000 people losing their jobs would be seen as awful. Do the thick DE readers even understand what they do?
    Implement the Brexit they are demanding? Process immigrants quickly? Dealwith court cases in a timely manner so the local burglars get banged up?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Do HM Forces count as civil servants? Just sayin’ there’s about 70 000 of them..
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Cookie said:

    Apparently David Marquand has died. RIP.

    A shame. He took a politics course I did at Shedfield University in the 90s. I kiked him a lot.
    Yes, he was a superb lecturer.
    I have a copy of his "Britain Since 1918: The Strange Career Of British Democracy". It's good. Sadly now never to be updated... :(

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/britain-since-1918/david-marquand/9780753826065
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Do HM Forces count as civil servants? Just sayin’ there’s about 70 000 of them..
    Judges do.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Why are civil servants so hated ? Ordinarily 70,000 people losing their jobs would be seen as awful. Do the thick DE readers even understand what they do?
    Implement the Brexit they are demanding? Process immigrants quickly? Dealwith court cases in a timely manner so the local burglars get banged up?
    I think you'll find those BUNGLERS BLOCK all of that while WFH in their PANTS.

    Or something.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Brittany is great fun. I can see why you’d come here on holiday if you’re prepared to risk shit weather (I wouldn’t, if it was my only family holiday - it’s also quite pricey)

    Observations: it can be very bleak. Rundown towns with dying industries. Rows of post covid shuttered shops (as bad as British towns for sure)

    Bretons are short dark and hairy. Not tall red haired blonde Celts. But which is the true Celtic type?!

    Cornouaille really is like Cornwall. Maybe not as intensely pretty in its best spots, but with a greater sense of space and urbanity

    I have spent millions of days there over my life - haven’t done the part you are in. I Mostly go to Dinan, Dinard and St Malo in the north and La Baule in the south (it’s technically Loire Atlantique now but very much considered Breton).

    Dinan is a beautiful medieval river port, Dinard is a very relaxed but actually v preppy/wealthy beach town which is packed with upper class frenchies in the summer, St Malo you probs know anyway and La Baule is very smart beach resort, very few Brits etc, wealthy French for the beaches and casino. Love them all whatever the weather tbh.
    I don’t know them at all so Oooh

    How exciting to have a whole new region of France to discover! I feel like I’m starting an unexpected and highly regarded new season of the Sopranos
    I also need to get my arse to Carnac and might do it this summer as it looks bloody impressive - you will love it, bazillions of big carved stones.

    Also if you are into spas they are big into their thalassotherapy spas on the coast in Brittany.
    Small stones in Carnac, but many, many acres of them
    It’s disappointing isn’t it? I got zero vibes from Carnac and I was super receptive
    Try the Outer Hebrides. Or at any rate the Uists. There are prehistoric monuments dotted around but you need to tramp across the moors with compass and OS map to find them. Very rewarding when you do. Last time I did that the only company I had was a golden eagle. Its a remarkable landscape.
    While I enjoy the reportage of Leon and Blanche Livermore and others sending words and pictures from around the globe - the paragraph above really made me lament the brevity of life and all the years of my youth when I could have been doing things like that, but didn't.
    Do it all when you're retired Cookie!
    Thanks Ben. That's the hope! Or even just after the kids have grown up. I'll be 57 when my youngest reaches 18. Hopefully there will still be plenty of life left in my legs by then!
    God willing you'll have many years from then on. The key challenge is to find reasons to do things rather than reasons not to do them.

    Having watched my parent's generation it's dawned on me that age inclines you to say 'no, I can't be bothered'. Never mind 'Rage, Rage against the dying of the light', focus on 'Rage, Rage against not going on that flight'.
    I'm not too bothered about seeing the world. But I want to explore the obscurer peaks of Scotland. I want to cycle the Hebrides. I want to walk the SW coast path. I wlant to use my body while I still can.
    I was thinking about this earlier. I was OK until I retired at 70, then there were health hiccups every so often….. looked quite serious before I got over them ……. until I got past 80. At 83 or so things started to go badly wrong. Not sure whether I’ll ever go travelling again, although careful planning might let me visit a few places in UK.
    If you ever make it to Glasgow I'll be sure to shout you a glass of something decent.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    The "UN" is full of vested interests, lobby groups and brutal power politics.

    It's not the nice international democratic rational body that everyone thinks it is.

    In this case, it tells you it's worried Rwanda might work.
    Rwanda won't work - the problem is that nothing is likely to stop the boats....
    I think I could.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125
    edited April 23

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Sounds sensible. Whitehall has ballooned in recent years.

    Plus, reducing the power of Whitehall will likely help reduce wasted defence spending.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    GIN1138 said:
    I mentioned this possibility earlier.
  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Brittany is great fun. I can see why you’d come here on holiday if you’re prepared to risk shit weather (I wouldn’t, if it was my only family holiday - it’s also quite pricey)

    Observations: it can be very bleak. Rundown towns with dying industries. Rows of post covid shuttered shops (as bad as British towns for sure)

    Bretons are short dark and hairy. Not tall red haired blonde Celts. But which is the true Celtic type?!

    Cornouaille really is like Cornwall. Maybe not as intensely pretty in its best spots, but with a greater sense of space and urbanity

    I have spent millions of days there over my life - haven’t done the part you are in. I Mostly go to Dinan, Dinard and St Malo in the north and La Baule in the south (it’s technically Loire Atlantique now but very much considered Breton).

    Dinan is a beautiful medieval river port, Dinard is a very relaxed but actually v preppy/wealthy beach town which is packed with upper class frenchies in the summer, St Malo you probs know anyway and La Baule is very smart beach resort, very few Brits etc, wealthy French for the beaches and casino. Love them all whatever the weather tbh.
    I don’t know them at all so Oooh

    How exciting to have a whole new region of France to discover! I feel like I’m starting an unexpected and highly regarded new season of the Sopranos
    I also need to get my arse to Carnac and might do it this summer as it looks bloody impressive - you will love it, bazillions of big carved stones.

    Also if you are into spas they are big into their thalassotherapy spas on the coast in Brittany.
    Small stones in Carnac, but many, many acres of them
    It’s disappointing isn’t it? I got zero vibes from Carnac and I was super receptive
    Try the Outer Hebrides. Or at any rate the Uists. There are prehistoric monuments dotted around but you need to tramp across the moors with compass and OS map to find them. Very rewarding when you do. Last time I did that the only company I had was a golden eagle. Its a remarkable landscape.
    While I enjoy the reportage of Leon and Blanche Livermore and others sending words and pictures from around the globe - the paragraph above really made me lament the brevity of life and all the years of my youth when I could have been doing things like that, but didn't.
    Do it all when you're retired Cookie!
    Thanks Ben. That's the hope! Or even just after the kids have grown up. I'll be 57 when my youngest reaches 18. Hopefully there will still be plenty of life left in my legs by then!
    God willing you'll have many years from then on. The key challenge is to find reasons to do things rather than reasons not to do them.

    Having watched my parent's generation it's dawned on me that age inclines you to say 'no, I can't be bothered'. Never mind 'Rage, Rage against the dying of the light', focus on 'Rage, Rage against not going on that flight'.
    I'm not too bothered about seeing the world. But I want to explore the obscurer peaks of Scotland. I want to cycle the Hebrides. I want to walk the SW coast path. I wlant to use my body while I still can.
    I walked the sw coastal path in my early 20s and it was hard enough then. The ups and downs on some sections are extremely tough.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    It's quite jarring to read those attitudes in 'golden age' thrillers. Even when they were presented by 'pro-Jewish' writers like Buchan, there's something raw there that makes me wince.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited April 23

    I could give you 1,000 tries to guess how Kirstie Alley’s parents were dressed when they died in a car accident and you wouldn’t get it right

    https://x.com/thewapplehouse/status/1782815454664307177?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    As Radiohead are so popular here, I thought I'd post Thom Yorke's new track :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQuglu4ScGU

    If this is my last post, it's been nice....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    ohnotnow said:

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    It's quite jarring to read those attitudes in 'golden age' thrillers. Even when they were presented by 'pro-Jewish' writers like Buchan, there's something raw there that makes me wince.
    Buchan wasn't "pro-Jewish" surely? The 39 Steps (and its successors) is absolutely chock full of antisemitism. (And, of course, casual racism.)

    "The Jew is everywhere, but you have to go far down the backstairs to find him. Take any big Teutonic business concern. If you have dealings with it the first man you meet is Prince von und zu Something, an elegant young man who talks Eton-and-Harvard English. But he cuts no ice. If your business is big, you get behind him and find a prognathous Westphalian with a retreating brow and the manners of a hog. He is the German business man that gives your English papers the shakes. But if you’re on the biggest kind of job and are bound to get to the real boss, ten to one you are brought up against a little white-faced Jew in a bath-chair with an eye like a rattlesnake. Yes, Sir, he is the man who is ruling the world just now, and he has his knife in the Empire of the Tzar because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga."
  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96
    nico679 said:

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Why are civil servants so hated ? Ordinarily 70,000 people losing their jobs would be seen as awful. Do the thick DE readers even understand what they do?
    The hatred started in the 1980s when lazy good for nothing civil servants were contrasted with the thrusting dynamic private sector.
  • WaterfallWaterfall Posts: 96
    nico679 said:

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Why are civil servants so hated ? Ordinarily 70,000 people losing their jobs would be seen as awful. Do the thick DE readers even understand what they do?
    Then think that the boomer readership of the daily express would have been in their 30s and 40s in the 1980s so would have fully absorbed the thatcherite propoganda.
  • Andy_JS said:

    GIN1138 said:
    I mentioned this possibility earlier.
    This is absolutely bound to happen. The choice increasingly becomes "do you want a Labour Government or not?" As much as the right are pissed off with Sunak, they'll largely rally round in the end. It won't save him, but it will prevent annihilation for his party.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    The CCP is far from getting everything its own way in China:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgl-45gmoDE

    There's potential here.

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513
    edited April 23
    nico679 said:

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Why are civil servants so hated ? Ordinarily 70,000 people losing their jobs would be seen as awful. Do the thick DE readers even understand what they do?
    The number of full time civil servants has increased by over 90,000 since June 2016, which was the most recent low point.
    Remind me what happened in June 2016.

    https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1093991/Statistical_tables_-_Civil_Service_Statistics_2022.ods&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

    Table E 11
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    ohnotnow said:

    As Radiohead are so popular here, I thought I'd post Thom Yorke's new track :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQuglu4ScGU

    If this is my last post, it's been nice....

    You could always lurk as an unregistered user after being banned.......
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 23
    Donkeys said:

    The CCP is far from getting everything its own way in China:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgl-45gmoDE

    There's potential here.

    I'm optimistic again. Youth show the way forward!

    This is the dropping out. All they need is some turning on and tuning in, and we're rolling again!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    It's quite jarring to read those attitudes in 'golden age' thrillers. Even when they were presented by 'pro-Jewish' writers like Buchan, there's something raw there that makes me wince.
    Buchan wasn't "pro-Jewish" surely? The 39 Steps (and its successors) is absolutely chock full of antisemitism. (And, of course, casual racism.)

    "The Jew is everywhere, but you have to go far down the backstairs to find him. Take any big Teutonic business concern. If you have dealings with it the first man you meet is Prince von und zu Something, an elegant young man who talks Eton-and-Harvard English. But he cuts no ice. If your business is big, you get behind him and find a prognathous Westphalian with a retreating brow and the manners of a hog. He is the German business man that gives your English papers the shakes. But if you’re on the biggest kind of job and are bound to get to the real boss, ten to one you are brought up against a little white-faced Jew in a bath-chair with an eye like a rattlesnake. Yes, Sir, he is the man who is ruling the world just now, and he has his knife in the Empire of the Tzar because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga."
    I've come across little overt antisemitism in the works of Agatha Christie. Possibly I'm misremembering. Dorothy L Sayers - different. Not as bad as the above though.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 23
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    It's quite jarring to read those attitudes in 'golden age' thrillers. Even when they were presented by 'pro-Jewish' writers like Buchan, there's something raw there that makes me wince.
    Buchan wasn't "pro-Jewish" surely? The 39 Steps (and its successors) is absolutely chock full of antisemitism. (And, of course, casual racism.)

    "The Jew is everywhere, but you have to go far down the backstairs to find him. Take any big Teutonic business concern. If you have dealings with it the first man you meet is Prince von und zu Something, an elegant young man who talks Eton-and-Harvard English. But he cuts no ice. If your business is big, you get behind him and find a prognathous Westphalian with a retreating brow and the manners of a hog. He is the German business man that gives your English papers the shakes. But if you’re on the biggest kind of job and are bound to get to the real boss, ten to one you are brought up against a little white-faced Jew in a bath-chair with an eye like a rattlesnake. Yes, Sir, he is the man who is ruling the world just now, and he has his knife in the Empire of the Tzar because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga."
    Those were words he put into the mouth of a fictional character.

    His protagonist Richard Hannay reaches the view that "The little man had told me a pack of lies. All his yarns about the Balkans and the Jew-Anarchists and the Foreign Office Conference were eyewash".

    https://www.jordanmposs.com/blog/2023/10/6/contesting-john-buchan

    Buchan was a friend of Chaim Weizmann and supported the project of creating a Jewish state in Palestine.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    It's quite jarring to read those attitudes in 'golden age' thrillers. Even when they were presented by 'pro-Jewish' writers like Buchan, there's something raw there that makes me wince.
    Buchan wasn't "pro-Jewish" surely? The 39 Steps (and its successors) is absolutely chock full of antisemitism. (And, of course, casual racism.)

    "The Jew is everywhere, but you have to go far down the backstairs to find him. Take any big Teutonic business concern. If you have dealings with it the first man you meet is Prince von und zu Something, an elegant young man who talks Eton-and-Harvard English. But he cuts no ice. If your business is big, you get behind him and find a prognathous Westphalian with a retreating brow and the manners of a hog. He is the German business man that gives your English papers the shakes. But if you’re on the biggest kind of job and are bound to get to the real boss, ten to one you are brought up against a little white-faced Jew in a bath-chair with an eye like a rattlesnake. Yes, Sir, he is the man who is ruling the world just now, and he has his knife in the Empire of the Tzar because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga."
    Said by Scudder, whose murder kicks off the story.

    The British spymaster he worked for comments late in the book -

    “If only I had more confidence in Scudder’s judgement. The trouble about him was that he was too romantic. He had the artistic temperament, and wanted a story to be better than God meant it to be. He had a lot of odd biases, too. Jews, for example, made him see red. Jews and the high finance.”

    The antisemitic stuff turns out to be bollocks. Instead of a plot to start a war and blame Germany, it turns out to be plot by German agents.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    SNP government proposal.

    "The bill proposes a pilot scheme for juryless rape trials"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68877273
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited April 23

    Express claiming defence boost will be paid for by sacking 70,000 civil servants.

    Do HM Forces count as civil servants? Just sayin’ there’s about 70 000 of them..
    Go the other way and and classify 50% civil servants as part of HM Armed Forces. Instantly triple the size of the military and get rid of hated civil servants, all without needing to actually do anything.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Leon said:

    Waterfall said:

    Dear god elon musk has now tweeted agreeing the west is on the verge of civil war.

    He agreed with this tweet from Gad Saad

    For many years now, I have warned that the path that the West is taking will result in civil war. It might take 5 years, 50 years, or 100 years but it is inevitable. The West could have repeatedly resolved these issues peacefully but it refuses to auto-correct from its path of civilizational suicide. Many Western men who are currently asleep at the wheel will wake up, and realize that they don't like being pushed around in their homelands; they don't like their women attacked; they don't like their freedoms curtailed; they don't like their faiths disrespected. Once this happens, prepare for some gargantuan ugliness. Those who think that they are gaining inroads in the West will soon find out that not all Western men are invertebrate castrati. Save this tweet and never forget who warned you.
    7:49 PM · Apr 23, 2024
    ·
    2.9M
    Views

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1782848959993774350

    He’s completely right. I sensed it in Paris

    The French, in the end, will not surrender French civilisation. But at the moment the barbarians are close to the gate and still they scoff crème brûlée - and look away
    But making a prediction that civil war may happen in 5-100 years is just weaksauce though. If it is at the upper end it hardly counts as being on the 'verge' of civil war, so it just seems like a lame prediction if the guy wasn't even willing to take a punt on, say, within 20 years.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Andy_JS said:

    SNP government proposal.

    "The bill proposes a pilot scheme for juryless rape trials"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68877273

    It is *very* bad when your starting premise is 'conviction rates are too low'. I mean ffs.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, i've just been looking at who is left after a bad Tory GE performance (c.120 seats).

    Wonder if John Redwood might be the fiscal hawk that we'd need after a Labour government reverting to its old tricks.....

    Tories are in no position to lecture anyone on fiscal rectitude.
    I remember old Spock advocating Trussonomics (then called Reaganomics) shortly after his resignation and failed leadership bid. Ken Clarke absolutely wiped the floor with him in the discussion, which surprised me at the time.
    He's recently discovered autarchy too, so his economic philosophy references are eclectic to say the least. Keeps banging the drum for Britain making and growing everything here.
    Had autarchy ever been successfully implemented.

    I mean, implemented in a way that didn't impoverish the population.
    Only cos it hasn’t been done properly up till now. Cometh the hour..

    Apropos of nothing Autarky is dogfood.

    https://www.autarkyfoods.com/

    rcs1000 said:

    TimS said:

    Mortimer said:

    On topic, i've just been looking at who is left after a bad Tory GE performance (c.120 seats).

    Wonder if John Redwood might be the fiscal hawk that we'd need after a Labour government reverting to its old tricks.....

    Tories are in no position to lecture anyone on fiscal rectitude.
    I remember old Spock advocating Trussonomics (then called Reaganomics) shortly after his resignation and failed leadership bid. Ken Clarke absolutely wiped the floor with him in the discussion, which surprised me at the time.
    He's recently discovered autarchy too, so his economic philosophy references are eclectic to say the least. Keeps banging the drum for Britain making and growing everything here.
    Had autarchy ever been successfully implemented.

    I mean, implemented in a way that didn't impoverish the population.
    Only cos it hasn’t been done properly up till now. Cometh the hour..

    Apropos of nothing Autarky is dogfood.

    https://www.autarkyfoods.com/
    Hmm, soya free. And some without nasty vegan stuff. Definitely straight to the bowls of our more carnivorous PBers. Just think how convenient the granules are in the morning, basically breakfast food.
    I met someone in the pub the other night who was investing in a dog food that used insect protein. His reasoning was that people don't want to eat it but dogs don't have the choice. I'm not sure I'd buy it for dogs either, but I nodded and smiled politely.
    Perfectly normal canid dietary element in the wild, in all seriousness. You shouldn't knock it for the insect component alone.
    I ate insects in Mexico this year. They were fine. Sort of earthy and crunchy and tasted like bovril.

    But I don't think anyone, if offered them or a steak, would choose the bug.
    I had sirloin for tea, with onion rings, fried onions, asparagus and potatoes in onions. If there were any bugs there I didn't see them and wouldn't want to.
    You do like onions!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    rcs1000 said:

    ohnotnow said:

    legatus said:

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.

    legatus said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Well that is not going to happen
    Indeed it won't. It really is not difficult to imagine Sunak and his ilk seeking to frustrate the heroic efforts of Nicholas Winton to bring the Kinder transport to this country in 1939 as they fled in desperation from Czechoslovakia after the Nazis entered Prague.
    Which rather depends on assuming that those trying to cross the channel are in genuine fear of being murdered, as opposed to simply trying to better their life chances. Pace the BBC news the latest group of arrivals in Calais seem to be from Vietnam.
    I don't doubt that there are many Tories today who share the instincts of the commentaries which appeared in the Daily Mail at the time which were highly critical of the Government for allowing so many Jews to enter the country having fled the Nazis.
    Anti Jewish sentiment was pretty prominent in the 1930’s in Britain. You see it even in the works of Agatha Christie.
    I think it’s fair to want to stop asylum seekers/economic migrants crossing the channel in an incredibly dangerous way. The bit that’s lacking is provision of alternate routes to claim asylum in the U.K. We’ve been happy to let in Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, but are not so keen on lots of Africans.
    Ultimately you feel that the current international laws surrounding asylum may not last much longer in their current form.
    It's quite jarring to read those attitudes in 'golden age' thrillers. Even when they were presented by 'pro-Jewish' writers like Buchan, there's something raw there that makes me wince.
    Buchan wasn't "pro-Jewish" surely? The 39 Steps (and its successors) is absolutely chock full of antisemitism. (And, of course, casual racism.)

    "The Jew is everywhere, but you have to go far down the backstairs to find him. Take any big Teutonic business concern. If you have dealings with it the first man you meet is Prince von und zu Something, an elegant young man who talks Eton-and-Harvard English. But he cuts no ice. If your business is big, you get behind him and find a prognathous Westphalian with a retreating brow and the manners of a hog. He is the German business man that gives your English papers the shakes. But if you’re on the biggest kind of job and are bound to get to the real boss, ten to one you are brought up against a little white-faced Jew in a bath-chair with an eye like a rattlesnake. Yes, Sir, he is the man who is ruling the world just now, and he has his knife in the Empire of the Tzar because his aunt was outraged and his father flogged in some one-horse location on the Volga."
    Said by Scudder, whose murder kicks off the story.

    The British spymaster he worked for comments late in the book -

    “If only I had more confidence in Scudder’s judgement. The trouble about him was that he was too romantic. He had the artistic temperament, and wanted a story to be better than God meant it to be. He had a lot of odd biases, too. Jews, for example, made him see red. Jews and the high finance.”

    The antisemitic stuff turns out to be bollocks. Instead of a plot to start a war and blame Germany, it turns out to be plot by German agents.
    Ah, my memory is playing tricks on me. I thought that quote came from the "Benevolent Nootral"
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
    Would that be the one building the ferries?
    The one I am thinking of is a new hall which can build 2 frigates side-by-side, indoors.
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/huge-new-glasgow-frigate-factory-progresses/

    (@Dura_Ace may be along in a minute to point something out.)
    Anyone can preassemble steel sections that have been prefabricated elserwhere, that's not in doubt. One would however want to know the production rate, and whether it can be increased, for critical elements such as engines and weapon systems and radars. (The gun turrets and the steam turbines were the crucial limiting steps for battleships in the C20, for instance.) That would tend to mean off the shelf stuff, with no MoD style messign around.
    AIUI the fit out will also be at Glasgow in the one I pointed to which is BAE for type 26s, and the value is in the fit out not the hull.

    As indicated by the other place (Type 31 / 32) owned by Babcock, which are much cheaper (1/3 of the cost before gold plating?) which have large hulls and fewer systems at the start, and non-BAE costs / profit margins. Babcock are at Rosyth, are they not?

    AIUI 1000 new jobs are currently being created at the Babcock facility, and a similar or greater number have been created at BAE in recent years.

    Though that's not to pretend that reductions won't happen if and when it runs down.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    Andy_JS said:

    SNP government proposal.

    "The bill proposes a pilot scheme for juryless rape trials"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68877273

    See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplock_court
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited April 24
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    a

    Carnyx said:

    stodge said:

    eek said:

    steve richards
    @steverichards14
    ·
    25m
    Tax cuts…tax cuts… increase defence spending by £75 billion…tax cuts..tax cuts…tax cuts.

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1782834681244721440

    It's a very Reform type manifesto of mutually exclusive promises (lower taxes and higher spending).
    Listening to Sunak yesterday and today he is clearly moving into election mode with the passing of the Rwanda Bill and the announcement in Warsaw of the increase in defence spending to 2.5% by 2030 which has apparently delighted his party
    There was a Budget a month ago. Defence wasn't mentioned iirc.

    And where is the spending review to provide the extra for defence.

    Sunak is a joke.
    You can say that but his defence commitment costing 75 billion to 2030 and his statement he is putting UK on a war footing will be popular with the conservative party and begs the question does Starmer match it and how
    What does "putting the UK on a war footing" actually mean? Are we actually going to be fighting Russia, Iran or C hina anytime soon? Of course not but a little bit of fear helps keep the voters in line. I suspect the hope is all this defence investment will somehow lead to economic growth and prosperity. History shows us it can do for a while but eventually the music stops.
    Sunak did say in his announcement that it would be investment in British jobs
    Think, please think.

    How much of it would be on British jobs? In what factories? What production lines active right now?

    As opposed to industry elsewhere?
    If the MoD pulled its head out of its arse and did something like order 500 Archer artillery systems, you’d get a factory to build them as part of the deal (made by a BAe subsidiary already).

    I think a fair amount may be for some of the more inexpensive frigates that have been ummed and aahed about *, and to fill financial potholes ** in programmes for the army and RAF.

    * We have a frigate factory in Glasgow, donnchaknow - nearly built.

    ** Isn't that what capital spending is for?
    I think this bit was fairly clear:
    … The prime minister said he would put the UK defence industry on a “war footing”, with £10bn invested in munitions production, as Ukraine showed that countries needed “deeper stockpiles” of weapons...

    It’s about a multi year funding commitment for sustained missile (and possibly shell ?) production, the previous lack of which has precluded the building of more production capacity.
    That’s sensible stuff.
    I'm skeptical about "war footing" apart from it being rhetoric. Ben Wallace may understand it; Sunak does not any more clue than Boris Johnson did.

    (But bear in mind my contempt for Sunak.)

    It has taken 2 years to get the ammunition factory at Washington - allegedly fast-tracked in 2022 - to anything like decent production.

    If we are heading to 2.5% by 2030 (added up how? will MOD pensions still be in it?), I make that something like .2% of GDP on average for 6 years assuming a steady increase, on top of inflation, which is 1.2% of GDP in total or £27bn in toto.

    If it serious about suitability for a war, then we will need things like a more dispersable, more capable, RAF, with hardened bases, an air defence system for the UK as noted which does not exist, heavily armed escorts across the board, arguably an armoured capability for the army, most of the other 74 F35s we keep not ordering, more than THREE e-monitoring planes - 3 gives 1 reliably in service, the rest of our air transport fleet, the 10k army staff that are still being run down, protection for our offshore infra, a minesweeping capability comprising more than one ship, and a hell of a lot of other things.

    Suspect that what has been suggested today will only so to speak touch up the paint.
This discussion has been closed.