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Porn in the USA! – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited May 12 in General
Porn in the USA! – politicalbetting.com

% who think that Donald Trump will be convicted of a crime in the hush-money caseU.S. adult citizens: 24%Democrats: 35%Independents: 21%Republicans: 16%https://t.co/kXCVMP0jz6 pic.twitter.com/LauTg1zkTV

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    First on St George’s day?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    I thought from the title that the piece would be about various restrictions on porn sites in red states, e.g. https://azmirror.com/2024/02/01/republican-crusade-against-online-porn-raises-first-amendment-questions/
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Joe Biden has been listening to me.

    How Biden plans to win swing states: make abortion the central issue

    The president hopes that opposition to the overturning of Roe v Wade will be decisive in his battle against Donald Trump


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/biden-polls-abortion-election-swing-states-3l2lhqq26
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    1. So what?
    2. Why would some MDMA being offered make her realise it was an orgy?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    I’d never have believed Princess Anne would do such a thing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    1. So what?
    2. Why would some MDMA being offered make her realise it was an orgy?
    Wilson writes that “all of a sudden, it’s 2am and a guy comes out with a large tray piled with what looks like a ton of candy. I’m like ‘Ooooh, is that candy?’ and the guy holding the tray says, ‘No, this is the molly,’ and I turn to the screenwriter I’ve been talking with, confused. He says, ‘Oh, it’s for the orgy… it’s about to start … the orgies normally start at these things about this time’.”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    On topic, it is worth remembering rich white men get away with murder (sometimes literally) in the US, so if anything the numbers on ‘think he will be’ suggest the Americans are optimistic about the state of their justice system.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    1. So what?
    2. Why would some MDMA being offered make her realise it was an orgy?
    The tray was someone's tits?

    *apologies I know it's early. Blame TSE.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, it is worth remembering rich white men get away with murder (sometimes literally) in the US, so if anything the numbers on ‘think he will be’ suggest the Americans are optimistic about the state of their justice system.

    On the bright side, Trump isn't white, he's orange.

    And his actual richness is open to question.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    I presume “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” isn’t exact. However, if you look who was actually 15th-20th in line and an adult in 2014, I think you get:

    David Armstrong-Jones, 2nd Earl of Snowdon (b. 1961)
    Lady Sarah Chatto (née Armstrong-Jones; b. 1964)
    Samuel Chatto (b. 1996)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    St George's Day, and exactly nine months to the next general election, which will be held on Thursday, 23 January.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A dinghy with migrants has left the coast of France and is heading in the direction of the UK.

    It comes after Rishi Sunak's Rwanda bill was finally passed through the Lords yesterday.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    With the current state of our armed forces, I think the value bet is the dragon.
    St George was born in Turkey to a Palestinian mum. He’ll’ve been sent to Rwanda.
    Nicking that.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    Bloody foreigners taking the jobs of native Brits.

    Bring back St Edmund.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    With the current state of our armed forces, I think the value bet is the dragon.
    St George was born in Turkey to a Palestinian mum. He’ll’ve been sent to Rwanda.
    Or his great-grandson would have become prime minister and cooked up a vote-winning scheme to send other people to Rwanda.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    Bloody foreigners taking the jobs of native Brits.

    Bring back St Edmund.
    It's a good day to Bury bad news.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    Bloody foreigners taking the jobs of native Brits.

    Bring back St Edmund.
    Ir St Augustine.

    Oh no, hold on, he was an Italian and came across on a small boat from France.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    With the current state of our armed forces, I think the value bet is the dragon.
    St George was born in Turkey to a Palestinian mum. He’ll’ve been sent to Rwanda.
    All the best people are born in Turkey, or to Turkish mums. ;)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,515
    edited April 23
    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Mike Freer is the latest MP to be quizzed in Times Radio's excellent series, Exit Interviews.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwMRRx8IciU

    Mike Freer is the MP for Finchley & Golders Green who cites personal safety as the reason for leaving parliament and it is interesting to hear him discuss the threats and abuse faced by all MPs. Ironically, as he notes, the recent arson attack on (or near) his constituency office (discussed on this very pb) turned out to be due to a mentally disturbed arsonist and nothing to do with Freer or politics.

    There are some interesting notes on former Prime Ministers, including Mrs Thatcher and Theresa May as assiduous constituency MPs. The "amusing anecdote" about touching up Boris really isn't.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    edited April 23
    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Rishi's not very bright.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Not a peep on X from the Conservatives about marking St George’s Day today yet. Labour has been celebrating since 7am👇

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1782659259454398756
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    Bloody foreigners taking the jobs of native Brits.

    Bring back St Edmund.
    It's a good day to Bury bad news.
    And of course we all know the best way to Bury St Edmunds....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    With the current state of our armed forces, I think the value bet is the dragon.
    St George was born in Turkey to a Palestinian mum. He’ll’ve been sent to Rwanda.
    All the best people are born in Turkey, or to Turkish mums. ;)
    St George was an Anatolian, but Greek not Turkish.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    Not a peep on X from the Conservatives about marking St George’s Day today yet. Labour has been celebrating since 7am👇

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1782659259454398756

    As we have learnt this morning a celebration doesn't really start until the tray of MDMA has been passed around.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417

    Not a peep on X from the Conservatives about marking St George’s Day today yet. Labour has been celebrating since 7am👇

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1782659259454398756

    To be fair, making a fuss of St George's Day is distinctly un-English. (Is this the maypole one?)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Not a peep on X from the Conservatives about marking St George’s Day today yet. Labour has been celebrating since 7am👇

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1782659259454398756

    As we have learnt this morning a celebration doesn't really start until the tray of MDMA has been passed around.
    Coffee first please!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A dinghy with migrants has left the coast of France and is heading in the direction of the UK.

    It comes after Rishi Sunak's Rwanda bill was finally passed through the Lords yesterday.

    Haven't they been told that now the bill has passed they are supposed to be deterred from attempting the crossing?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    1. So what?
    2. Why would some MDMA being offered make her realise it was an orgy?
    Wilson writes that “all of a sudden, it’s 2am and a guy comes out with a large tray piled with what looks like a ton of candy. I’m like ‘Ooooh, is that candy?’ and the guy holding the tray says, ‘No, this is the molly,’ and I turn to the screenwriter I’ve been talking with, confused. He says,
    ‘Oh, it’s for the orgy… it’s about to start … the orgies normally start at these things about this time’.”
    So hearsay then?


  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England

    Definitely St Dunstan
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 23

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    Not a peep on X from the Conservatives about marking St George’s Day today yet. Labour has been celebrating since 7am👇

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1782659259454398756

    "I was there first!"
    "No I was there firster!"
    "I started celebrating St George's Day last week!"
    "Every day is St George's Day!"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England

    Definitely St Dunstan
    Saint BobbyMoore, surely?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Foxy said:

    Not a peep on X from the Conservatives about marking St George’s Day today yet. Labour has been celebrating since 7am👇

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1782659259454398756

    As we have learnt this morning a celebration doesn't really start until the tray of MDMA has been passed around.
    Coffee first please!
    It’s the tray imagery that makes it. MDMA canapés on sticks.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England

    Definitely St Dunstan
    Who was Stan, and which Saint done him?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    Bloody foreigners taking the jobs of native Brits.

    Bring back St Edmund.
    It's a good day to Bury bad news.
    And of course we all know the best way to Bury St Edmunds....
    Dig a hole.

    Wouldn't be as big a hole as the one Sunak's dug for himself over Rwanda though.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    ydoethur said:

    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England

    Definitely St Dunstan
    Who was Stan, and which Saint done him?
    Roger Moore, obviously.

    Ian Ogilvy was a waste of a really good theme tune.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    Which way to the outrage bus? as Tice tweets a defaced pink flag of St George:

    https://twitter.com/TiceRichard/status/1782640131192537389?t=zE4uriLFMhHwmmstSuuRoQ&s=19

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England

    Trouble is there's too many St Albans.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    First on St George’s day?

    With the current state of our armed forces, I think the value bet is the dragon.
    St George was born in Turkey to a Palestinian mum. He’ll’ve been sent to Rwanda.
    All the best people are born in Turkey, or to Turkish mums. ;)
    St George was an Anatolian, but Greek not Turkish.
    Have you lost your marbles?

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Even if the legislation turns watertight, is there anything to prevent it being taken back to the Supreme Court and delayed while the Court considers whether it is watertight?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    I reckon he found the skeleton of a dinosaur and then started telling stories on the pub…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West...


    ..Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    With any luck we'll soon be able to dismiss the current MAGA nonsense as the ramblings of a very disappointed ex-leader, too.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Waking up to discover I live in a country that no longer believes in international law and inalienable human rights is quite a thing. Anyone who seriously believes this government will stop at refugees is a gullible fool.

    The one good thing- there isn't time for them to do any more than this.

    When is Rishi expecting to get a Massive Rwanda Bounce in the polls?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Waking up to discover I live in a country that no longer believes in international law and inalienable human rights is quite a thing. Anyone who seriously believes this government will stop at refugees is a gullible fool.

    Fortunately they’ll not be around long.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Everyone knows that St Alban is the true patron saint of England

    Definitely St Dunstan
    Saint BobbyMoore, surely?
    Dunstan restructured the monarchy to make it a profit centre and simultaneously was chancellor and archbishop…

    Typically pictured carrying a pair of sugar tongs so he can tweak the devil’s nose (WTF?)

    He’s now the patron saint of investment bankers…
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The right aspires to absolute power. Dictatorship. That shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has been watching,
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, it is worth remembering rich white men get away with murder (sometimes literally) in the US, so if anything the numbers on ‘think he will be’ suggest the Americans are optimistic about the state of their justice system.

    So do rich black men sometimes.

    Both things skew the justice system, but money skews it more I think.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,468
    .

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    I reckon he found the skeleton of a dinosaur and then started telling stories on the pub…
    The first St George and the dragon story came 700 years after his death.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Waking up to discover I live in a country that no longer believes in international law and inalienable human rights is quite a thing. Anyone who seriously believes this government will stop at refugees is a gullible fool.

    The one good thing- there isn't time for them to do any more than this.

    When is Rishi expecting to get a Massive Rwanda Bounce in the polls?
    ...and how is he going to distinguish it from the Massive Budget Bounce?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    TimS said:

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Waking up to discover I live in a country that no longer believes in international law and inalienable human rights is quite a thing. Anyone who seriously believes this government will stop at refugees is a gullible fool.

    Fortunately they’ll not be around long.

    Here's hoping - but once you have legislated to declare black is white in order to deny people fundamental human rights you have crossed a Rubicon. We live in a very different country today.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

  • William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas.

    Cutting instead of raising NI to make work pay better? Very, very good idea, and one Hunt has continued, quite rightly.

    Going for growth? Good idea.

    It was the economy that brought her down, but it was on economics she was closest to what was needed and if she'd kept stumpt now then in the future I think her tenure could be looked back at better as badly handled but with some kernels of good ideas that her successors have adopted.

    But instead she's going full MAGAite batshit crazy deep state conspiracy theory lunatic.

    She'll be talking about pizza, sexual abuse and Pepe the Frog soon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Aaaand we're back to Jeremy Corbyn.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    I like the theory, which is likely correct, that the myth of the cyclops came from ancient people finding the fossilised skulls of Pygmy elephants on the Greek islands where they had once lived and seeing the large hole in the skull where the trunk would have been thought it was a single eye socket of a giant man.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas. ...
    The irony is that however catastrophic something was, someone on the Internet will still think it "wasn't far from what was needed".
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The right aspires to absolute power. Dictatorship. That shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who has been watching,
    Depends what we mean by right. Call me old fashioned but I still think of the likes of Clarke and Heseltine as of the right.

    Authoritarians tend to aspire to centralised state power in the hands of a few. Those can be lefty or righty, and there are plenty of lefties and righties who would detest such a world too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas.

    Cutting instead of raising NI to make work pay better? Very, very good idea, and one Hunt has continued, quite rightly.

    Going for growth? Good idea.

    It was the economy that brought her down, but it was on economics she was closest to what was needed and if she'd kept stumpt now then in the future I think her tenure could be looked back at better as badly handled but with some kernels of good ideas that her successors have adopted.

    But instead she's going full MAGAite batshit crazy deep state conspiracy theory lunatic.

    She'll be talking about pizza, sexual abuse and Pepe the Frog soon.
    Saying "growth" in every other sentence doesn't grow the economy.

    You are a free marketeer, in your world the markets are in charge, and the markets didn't like her or her economics.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    I reckon he found the skeleton of a dinosaur and then started telling stories on the pub…
    My theory is that the Dragon was a lizard that had been eating scotch bonnet chillies and that St. George was the same height as Rishi Sunak.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,366
    edited April 23
    Chris said:

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas. ...
    The irony is that however catastrophic something was, someone on the Internet will still think it "wasn't far from what was needed".
    Because it's often true.

    Most catastrophes are because of being not far from what was needed, but the difference between being what's needed and not far from it is critical.

    Want to catch a train? Standing on the platform waiting is a good idea. Being at home in bed is not, but nor is it catastrophic.

    Standing on the tracks is not far from what was needed, but that mistake is catastrophic.

    Truss did the metaphorical equivalent of running to catch a train, tumbling onto the tracks, with inevitable results.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well
    preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    You only need it to happen once or twice
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, it is worth remembering rich white men get away with murder (sometimes literally) in the US, so if anything the numbers on ‘think he will be’ suggest the Americans are optimistic about the state of their justice system.

    So do rich black men sometimes.

    Both things skew the justice system, but money skews it more I think.
    But they do get the consolation prize of a lengthy sentence for armed robbery. Fire up the Bronco!
  • DayTripperDayTripper Posts: 137
    A little something for SKS's St George's Day patriotism initiative:

    St George, it seems, was born a Grecian
    And got bumped off by Diocletian
    An Englishman he really ain’t
    So how come he’s their patron saint?

    And you will find, in similar vein,
    He’s claimed by Moscow *and* Ukraine,
    Georgia, Malta, Bosnia too,
    And several others in the queue

    And as for all that dragon stuff,
    It really is a load of guff
    It’s just another permutation
    Of fables found in every nation

    So given that the English are
    Almost entirely secular
    They sure don’t need a patron saint
    The notion is entirely quaint.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Nigelb said:

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West...


    ..Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    With any luck we'll soon be able to dismiss the current MAGA nonsense as the ramblings of a very disappointed ex-leader, too.
    We should note in passing that Liz Truss already had a track record of ousting civil servants in different departments in her ministerial career.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    If they were walking along the beach at Lyme Regis it’s quite possible that one would be found after a landslip.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas.

    Cutting instead of raising NI to make work pay better? Very, very good idea, and one Hunt has continued, quite rightly.

    Going for growth? Good idea.

    It was the economy that brought her down, but it was on economics she was closest to what was needed and if she'd kept stumpt now then in the future I think her tenure could be looked back at better as badly handled but with some kernels of good ideas that her successors have adopted.

    But instead she's going full MAGAite batshit crazy deep state conspiracy theory lunatic.

    She'll be talking about pizza, sexual abuse and Pepe the Frog soon.
    "Going for growth" is a good idea much like "Seeking world peace"; few would argue with the aim but the implementation is the challenge.

    Unfunded tax cuts was Truss's approach - that's the head-in-the-sand path to penury. Most of the debt cases I see have followed the same path with their personal finances, it never ends well.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 22,366
    edited April 23

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas.

    Cutting instead of raising NI to make work pay better? Very, very good idea, and one Hunt has continued, quite rightly.

    Going for growth? Good idea.

    It was the economy that brought her down, but it was on economics she was closest to what was needed and if she'd kept stumpt now then in the future I think her tenure could be looked back at better as badly handled but with some kernels of good ideas that her successors have adopted.

    But instead she's going full MAGAite batshit crazy deep state conspiracy theory lunatic.

    She'll be talking about pizza, sexual abuse and Pepe the Frog soon.
    Saying "growth" in every other sentence doesn't grow the economy.

    You are a free marketeer, in your world the markets are in charge, and the markets didn't like her or her economics.
    Indeed, she made multiple mistakes. I agree with that. I have said as much myself.

    Implemented better, some of her ideas were good.

    Hunt has himself continued with her flagship idea she had campaigned on during the leadership election, which was a reversal of Sunak and miltiple predecessors for decades doing the opposite.

    It was the rest that accompanied it that was bullshit.

    Quite rightly too that Hunt has continued with Truss's idea, because it was right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    Often enough, I think.
    And dragons are, after all, supposed to be rare.
    Erosion fairly regularly exposes fossils where there are a lot of them.

    China is particularly rich both in fossil remains and dragon legends.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    edited April 23
    boulay said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    I like the theory, which is likely correct, that the myth of the cyclops came from ancient people finding the fossilised skulls of Pygmy elephants on the Greek islands where they had once lived and seeing the large hole in the skull where the trunk would have been thought it was a single eye socket of a giant man.
    I liked that too, but don’t know enough whether to judge if it’s “likely correct” or not.

    Most miracles and mythos have a mundane explanation at their core

    I remember a long time ago reading an article which sought to explain biblical miracles using natural causes. The one which always stuck in my mind was Joshua crossing the Jordan and the water drying up. They proved that if a tree trunk was wedged in a specific place upriver then the water would dry up where Joshua crossed in the manner described.

    Hence the “miracle” resolves itself into “just the right thing happening at the right time”. Which you can put down to luck or divine intervention depending on your view. But it’s not unnatural.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    If they were walking along the beach at Lyme Regis it’s quite possible that one would be found after a landslip.
    Yes, indeed that's possible. I am not sure it explains the prevalence of dragon mythology in, say, Scandinavia though.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    A little something for SKS's St George's Day patriotism initiative:

    St George, it seems, was born a Grecian
    And got bumped off by Diocletian
    An Englishman he really ain’t
    So how come he’s their patron saint?

    And you will find, in similar vein,
    He’s claimed by Moscow *and* Ukraine,
    Georgia, Malta, Bosnia too,
    And several others in the queue

    And as for all that dragon stuff,
    It really is a load of guff
    It’s just another permutation
    Of fables found in every nation

    So given that the English are
    Almost entirely secular
    They sure don’t need a patron saint
    The notion is entirely quaint.

    Haha brilliant!!!

    And why on earth do we have ‘three lions’ and bang on about it as if it’s some kind of national symbol? Lions don’t live in little England except on some old buff’s country estate.

    It’s ridiculous to glorify ‘three lions’. Dandelions would be more appropriate.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    Often enough, I think.
    And dragons are, after all, supposed to be rare.
    Erosion fairly regularly exposes fossils where there are a lot of them.

    China is particularly rich both in fossil remains and dragon legends.
    Yes, and when a giant dinosaur skull fossil or huge teeth were given as a present to a king or emperor it would be written about, talked about and sung about and spread amongst the masses and it would be a “dragon” as they had no other explanation.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    Often enough, I think.
    And dragons are, after all, supposed to be rare.
    Erosion fairly regularly exposes fossils where there are a lot of them.

    China is particularly rich both in fossil remains and dragon legends.
    Dinosaur fossils do not generally appear as complete brontosauruses. Indeed I doubt any has ever been discovered complete without a huge amount of painstaking excavation and reconstruction effort.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    If they were walking along the beach at Lyme Regis it’s quite possible that one would be found after a landslip.
    Yes, indeed that's possible. I am not sure it explains the prevalence of dragon mythology in, say, Scandinavia though.
    Ormr (Norse dragons) were more like giant serpents than dragons as we imagine them and were quite consistent with other Norse mythology such as frost giants etc.

    They don't really stand out as an odd thing to believe in, considering everything else they did.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Heathener said:

    A little something for SKS's St George's Day patriotism initiative:

    St George, it seems, was born a Grecian
    And got bumped off by Diocletian
    An Englishman he really ain’t
    So how come he’s their patron saint?

    And you will find, in similar vein,
    He’s claimed by Moscow *and* Ukraine,
    Georgia, Malta, Bosnia too,
    And several others in the queue

    And as for all that dragon stuff,
    It really is a load of guff
    It’s just another permutation
    Of fables found in every nation

    So given that the English are
    Almost entirely secular
    They sure don’t need a patron saint
    The notion is entirely quaint.

    Haha brilliant!!!

    And why on earth do we have ‘three lions’ and bang on about it as if it’s some kind of national symbol? Lions don’t live in little England except on some old buff’s country estate.

    It’s ridiculous to glorify ‘three lions’. Dandelions would be more appropriate.
    And Buddha didn’t live in Surrey Heath and yet some misguided people use it as a representative symbol for themselves.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    A little something for SKS's St George's Day patriotism initiative:

    St George, it seems, was born a Grecian
    And got bumped off by Diocletian
    An Englishman he really ain’t
    So how come he’s their patron saint?

    And you will find, in similar vein,
    He’s claimed by Moscow *and* Ukraine,
    Georgia, Malta, Bosnia too,
    And several others in the queue

    And as for all that dragon stuff,
    It really is a load of guff
    It’s just another permutation
    Of fables found in every nation

    So given that the English are
    Almost entirely secular
    They sure don’t need a patron saint
    The notion is entirely quaint.

    Very droll, but it isn't unusual to have a patron Saint from another country. Ireland has a British patron Saint for example.

    Multiculturalism is nothing new.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas.

    Cutting instead of raising NI to make work pay better? Very, very good idea, and one Hunt has continued, quite rightly.

    Going for growth? Good idea.

    It was the economy that brought her down, but it was on economics she was closest to what was needed and if she'd kept stumpt now then in the future I think her tenure could be looked back at better as badly handled but with some kernels of good ideas that her successors have adopted.

    But instead she's going full MAGAite batshit crazy deep state conspiracy theory lunatic.

    She'll be talking about pizza, sexual abuse and Pepe the Frog soon.
    Saying "growth" in every other sentence doesn't grow the economy.

    You are a free marketeer, in your world the markets are in charge, and the markets didn't like her or her economics.
    Truss seems to have a magical thinking belief in markets, rather than an understanding of how they operate in the real world.
    That would explain her resort to conspiracy theory in order to account for her policies blowing up in her face.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    edited April 23
    Heathener said:

    A little something for SKS's St George's Day patriotism initiative:

    St George, it seems, was born a Grecian
    And got bumped off by Diocletian
    An Englishman he really ain’t
    So how come he’s their patron saint?

    And you will find, in similar vein,
    He’s claimed by Moscow *and* Ukraine,
    Georgia, Malta, Bosnia too,
    And several others in the queue

    And as for all that dragon stuff,
    It really is a load of guff
    It’s just another permutation
    Of fables found in every nation

    So given that the English are
    Almost entirely secular
    They sure don’t need a patron saint
    The notion is entirely quaint.

    Haha brilliant!!!

    And why on earth do we have ‘three lions’ and bang on about it as if it’s some kind of national symbol? Lions don’t live in little England except on some old buff’s country estate.

    It’s ridiculous to glorify ‘three lions’. Dandelions would be more appropriate.
    It’s Coeur de Lion’s personal banner
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    boulay said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    I like the theory, which is likely correct, that the myth of the cyclops came from ancient people finding the fossilised skulls of Pygmy elephants on the Greek islands where they had once lived and seeing the large hole in the skull where the trunk would have been thought it was a single eye socket of a giant man.
    I liked that too, but don’t know enough whether to judge if it’s “likely correct” or not.

    Most miracles and mythos have a mundane explanation at their core

    I remember a long time ago reading an article which sought to explain biblical miracles using natural causes. The one which always stuck in my mind was Joshua crossing the Jordan and the water drying up. They proved that if a tree trunk was wedged in a specific place upriver then the water would dry up where Joshua crossed in the manner described.

    Hence the “miracle” resolves itself into “just the right thing happening at the right time”. Which you can put down to luck or divine intervention depending on your view. But it’s not unnatural.
    That must've been one helluva tree for Moses' crossing of the Red Sea though.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    William Hague.

    It has been easy to make fun of the book by Liz Truss, Ten Years to Save the West. Reviewers have mocked the paranoia, lack of self-awareness and blaming of others for the disasters of her short premiership. It didn’t help when she held the book upside down on television. Most people have probably joined in the mirth and otherwise tried to forget it all. But for Conservatives like me, it is a reminder of the most excruciatingly embarrassing period in the modern history of our party, one for which a severe electoral price is still being paid.

    It might come as a surprise, therefore, when I say that this book has to be taken seriously. Not because Truss is about to return to power, or because it is a deep study of how politics works, or because its proposals deserve support. I haven’t, as a critic of how government was conducted in those infamous 49 days, changed my mind. But I do think that the ideas this former prime minister expresses have become the common currency of many people on the right, in this country and abroad.

    They tell us a great deal about the struggle over the future of conservatism — a struggle already taking place around the world and that will become urgent and intense in Britain if the Tories go into opposition after the coming election.

    Truss perceives many of the institutions of government to have been “captured by left-wing ideology” or become excessively powerful, knitting together in a “deep state” that frustrates elected leaders. Her answer is to abolish a great many of them. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) would be eliminated, the Bank of England weakened, the Supreme Court abolished and the European Convention on Human Rights abandoned. Internationally, we would withdraw from the climate negotiations at Cop summits and seek to abolish the United Nations. The elected government — albeit elected by a very small number of people in her own case — would be liberated from all these agreements and constraints.

    Before dismissing such notions as the rantings of a very disappointed ex-leader, we should note that they have a lot in common with the policies of more successful leaders overseas. In America, the Republicans have become largely subservient to a Trump agenda that includes “dismantling the deep state”, firing civil servants by presidential order, removing “Marxist” prosecutors and justifying the brazen attempt to overturn the outcome of the last presidential election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sadly-liz-trusss-world-view-is-no-laughing-matter-w66z0knmj

    The irony is that economically Truss wasn't far from what was needed. She was cackhanded in it, but had some good ideas.

    Cutting instead of raising NI to make work pay better? Very, very good idea, and one Hunt has continued, quite rightly.

    Going for growth? Good idea.

    It was the economy that brought her down, but it was on economics she was closest to what was needed and if she'd kept stumpt now then in the future I think her tenure could be looked back at better as badly handled but with some kernels of good ideas that her successors have adopted.

    But instead she's going full MAGAite batshit crazy deep state conspiracy theory lunatic.

    She'll be talking about pizza, sexual abuse and Pepe the Frog soon.
    "Going for growth" is a good idea much like "Seeking world peace"; few would argue with the aim but the implementation is the challenge.

    Unfunded tax cuts was Truss's approach - that's the head-in-the-sand path to penury. Most of the debt cases I see have followed the same path with their personal finances, it never ends well.
    Yeah, the amount of people who give credit to Truss for recognising that not enough growth is problematic is quite weird. Nearly everyone agrees on that, bar a few greens. And even they realise that lack of growth hinders our economy, they just think it is worth it to protect the planet and/or change the focus in life away from economic matters.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, it is worth remembering rich white men get away with murder (sometimes literally) in the US, so if anything the numbers on ‘think he will be’ suggest the Americans are optimistic about the state of their justice system.

    So do rich black men sometimes.

    Both things skew the justice system, but money skews it more I think.
    But they do get the consolation prize of a lengthy sentence for armed robbery. Fire up the Bronco!
    https://twitter.com/chipper626/status/1778557329975185448
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Foxy said:

    A little something for SKS's St George's Day patriotism initiative:

    St George, it seems, was born a Grecian
    And got bumped off by Diocletian
    An Englishman he really ain’t
    So how come he’s their patron saint?

    And you will find, in similar vein,
    He’s claimed by Moscow *and* Ukraine,
    Georgia, Malta, Bosnia too,
    And several others in the queue

    And as for all that dragon stuff,
    It really is a load of guff
    It’s just another permutation
    Of fables found in every nation

    So given that the English are
    Almost entirely secular
    They sure don’t need a patron saint
    The notion is entirely quaint.

    Very droll, but it isn't unusual to have a patron Saint from another country. Ireland has a British patron Saint for example.

    Multiculturalism is nothing new.
    France’s is the Virgin Mary and Germany’s is, guess what, English - St Boniface.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Rwanda's passed then, and Rishi has declared that "no foreign court" will block deportations.

    Has Rishi forgotten it is the British Supreme Court which keeps sticking its oar in?

    Waking up to discover I live in a country that no longer believes in international law and inalienable human rights is quite a thing. Anyone who seriously believes this government will stop at refugees is a gullible fool.

    Thank you for this @SouthamObserver

    A sober and accurate reflection of where we are at.

    The damage caused by these evil tory ministers may take years to mend.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    Groping for attention?

    The presence of the 20th in line to the throne makes a difference from a collection of Californian slebs?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    And let’s not call it by any other name. Evil.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    Not sure I believe that one. How often did our ancient ancestors come across well preserved, relatively complete dinosaur fossils?
    If they were walking along the beach at Lyme Regis it’s quite possible that one would be found after a landslip.
    Yes, indeed that's possible. I am not sure it explains the prevalence of dragon mythology in, say, Scandinavia though.
    https://fossil.fandom.com/wiki/Dinosaurs_of_Norway
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    edited April 23

    boulay said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    While I'm not into 'days' (though Saint George is at least the national saint), it'd be nice to go a year without the repetitive chorus of "He wasn't born here, you know".

    Yes, I know. People bang on about it every year.

    The passing of the Rwanda bill on St George's day makes the fact even more apt today.

    Saint George killed a dragon?

    It’s up there with a virgin birth.

    Let’s be honest he was high on magic mushrooms and in all likelihood killed a dragonfly.
    Dragon mythology is global and rather hard to explain.

    I like to think that it's a deep-rooted instinct inherited from proto-mammal ancestors who lived in the shadows of dinosaurs 66m years ago. That's bollocks of course but I still like to think it.
    Isn’t it just an uninformed explanation for dinosaur fossils?

    I like the theory, which is likely correct, that the myth of the cyclops came from ancient people finding the fossilised skulls of Pygmy elephants on the Greek islands where they had once lived and seeing the large hole in the skull where the trunk would have been thought it was a single eye socket of a giant man.
    I liked that too, but don’t know enough whether to judge if it’s “likely correct” or not.

    Most miracles and mythos have a mundane explanation at their core

    I remember a long time ago reading an article which sought to explain biblical miracles using natural causes. The one which always stuck in my mind was Joshua crossing the Jordan and the water drying up. They proved that if a tree trunk was wedged in a specific place upriver then the water would dry up where Joshua crossed in the manner described.

    Hence the “miracle” resolves itself into “just the right thing happening at the right time”. Which you can put down to luck or divine
    intervention depending on your view. But it’s
    not unnatural.
    That must've been one helluva tree for
    Moses' crossing of the Red Sea though.
    The Sea of Reeds is a marshy delta on the direct route from Egypt to Israel though…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_Suph
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    edited April 23
    MattW said:

    Rebel Wilson has claimed that a member of the royal family who was “15th or 20th in line to the British throne” invited her to an orgy in ­California where drugs were freely ­offered to guests.

    Writing in her memoir Rebel Rising, the Australian actress says that the party was held in 2014 and hosted by a tech billionaire at a rented ranch on the outskirts of Los Angeles.

    The comedian, 44, best known for Pitch Perfect and Bridesmaids, said that she did not realise the medieval-themed party was an orgy until 2am when a tray of “molly”, the slang term for MDMA, was passed around.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rebel-wilson-claims-british-royal-invited-orgy-bwbw75njl

    Groping for attention?

    The presence of the 20th in line to the throne makes a difference from a collection of Californian slebs?
    Americans are so gullible with these things that I could probably claim to be 15th in line!
This discussion has been closed.