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Yea, though I walk through the Tees Valley of the shadow of Reform – politicalbetting.com

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  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol

    Isn’t there the “Paris syndrome” thingy where Japanese tourists (and others) were so discombobulated by the disconnect between their preconceptions of Paris v the reality?
    Talking of France’s dark side, has anyone seen Roger on here recently?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Leon said:

    Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol

    Watched three episodes. That was enough.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol

    Watched three episodes. That was enough.
    It’s not as good as “Analy in Paris” but weirdly that’s not on Netflix.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
    Why are your photos blurred? Are you taking pictures of Bigfoot?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    It's a negotiating ploy: no way is Middlesex leaving Lords.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited April 20
    All quiet here up in the hills




  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited April 20

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, now Middlesex.

    But in all three cases, you can see why. Gloucestershire need the space.* Worcestershire need the dry land. Middlesex need control of a ground.

    All will go bust if they don't sort those issues out.

    And Hampshire blazed a trail some years ago which I think is accepted as a great success overall.

    *And to be truthful, the pitch at Neville Road is the worst in England. Hard to imagine a new pitch at Bradley Stoke would be as bad.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    The whole of the square in front of the Hotel de Ville is an African refugee encampment

    Yes, we can see that from your earlier photo - the one with all those people walking through the city of tents.
    So I’m lying? Oh wait. I’m not

    Seems it started off semi official now it’s more “Freeform”



    Meanwhile on the main shopping street of Paris at 7pm on Saturday evening


    There is talk that the Opening ceremony might be moved.....
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited April 20
    rcs1000 said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    It's a negotiating ploy: no way is Middlesex leaving Lords.
    The sensible alternative solution might be full merger with the MCC.

    Or indeed, to wind up the MCC and transfer its assets to Middlesex.

    But I can't see that happening.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    . . . start popping your popcorn . . .

    https://live.house.gov/

    Er, ok... what's happening?
    At present, House is conducting votes on bunch of different bills & amendments thereto.

    Later today, will be key votes on aid for Israel, Taiwan and . . . wait for it . . . Ukraine.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    Middle Sex.

    More woke shite.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited April 20
    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    1) They're going bust due to pensions issues;

    2) They can't get into Lord's half the time because of the Hundred and international matches but playing at outgrounds costs a fortune. They're actually going to be moving to Chelmsford for chunks of the one day cup.

    3) They get no money from the big games but have to bear the full costs of staging their own matches while paying rent to MCC. They also can't raise revenue from letting their ground facilities and pavilion/clubhouse for events as all other sides do.

    4) It's a bugger to get to.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    It's a negotiating ploy: no way is Middlesex leaving Lords.
    The sensible alternative solution might be full merger with the MCC.

    Or indeed, to wind up the MCC and transfer its assets to Middlesex.

    But I can't see that happening.
    Transportation is too good for you! Wind up the MCC!?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
    Why are your photos blurred? Are you taking pictures of Bigfoot?
    Dunno. The original isn’t. Maybe I’m posting too many (if so, apologies to the mods - I shall stop)

    This is actually one of the most depressing days of travel I have ever experienced. I started off kind of amused, then curious, then puzzled, then sad, then almost horrified - and now I’m kind of numbed

    I could post 20 more images of homeless tents and menacing crap and shocking urban crud. I won’t. You get the picture. What I don’t understand is how anyone could come to Paris and NOT SEE THIS
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    It's a negotiating ploy: no way is Middlesex leaving Lords.
    The sensible alternative solution might be full merger with the MCC.

    Or indeed, to wind up the MCC and transfer its assets to Middlesex.

    But I can't see that happening.
    Transportation is too good for you! Wind up the MCC!?
    Yes.

    What useful purpose does it serve now?

    And the transport to Lord's is not all it might be...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    It's a negotiating ploy: no way is Middlesex leaving Lords.
    The sensible alternative solution might be full merger with the MCC.

    Or indeed, to wind up the MCC and transfer its assets to Middlesex.

    But I can't see that happening.
    Maybe I Zingari can take over Lords and finally stop their homelessness.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Pujara being very Pujara, annoyingly.

    It is a tragedy he was signed fro Gloucestershire but never played due to Covid.

    To be fair though, he's been a fabulous servant for Sussex.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
    Hard to tell much about them in the absence of facts. I suppose we could just go off our feelings.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
    Why are your photos blurred? Are you taking pictures of Bigfoot?
    Il tremble
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    rcs1000 said:

    J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

    Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

    Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
    The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

    https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

    “Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
    I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
    Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
    Did she?

    She turned up to Trump's inauguration. She phoned to congratulate him as the winner. She wrote a book about her loss.

    So, I'm just wondering about the evidence for the statement "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    Could you perhaps enlighten me?
    Certainly.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

    Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
    That in no way backs up your claims that "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    I have searched the internet, and while there are plenty of polls that show that people believe that Russia interfered in the election*, I was only able to find one - a September 2017 poll from The Washington Post-University of Maryland - that showed that 1 in 10 Americans believed that Clinton actually won the 2016 election.

    * In that they sowed discord via social media, which is true.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    1) They're going bust due to pensions issues;

    2) They can't get into Lord's half the time because of the Hundred and international matches but playing at outgrounds costs a fortune. They're actually going to be moving to Chelmsford for chunks of the one day cup.

    3) They get no money from the big games but have to bear the full costs of staging their own matches while paying rent to MCC.

    4) It's a bugger to get to.
    4 isn't right - Lords is very well served by public transport, there must be about 10 tube stations within 15mins walk. Admittedly there isn't one very very close (it closed many many years ago), and there isn't a big bus garage outside.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    Middle Sex.

    More woke shite.
    And, famously, no Norrex. Wessex, Esses, Sussex and Middlesex yes, but no Norrex. Apparently Saxons had no concept of "The North" as Christopher Ecclestone was born too late.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    viewcode said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    Middle Sex.

    More woke shite.
    And, famously, no Norrex. Wessex, Esses, Sussex and Middlesex yes, but no Norrex. Apparently Saxons had no concept of "The North" as Christopher Ecclestone was born too late.
    There was a Nosex originally, but they died out for some reason.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    1) They're going bust due to pensions issues;

    2) They can't get into Lord's half the time because of the Hundred and international matches but playing at outgrounds costs a fortune. They're actually going to be moving to Chelmsford for chunks of the one day cup.

    3) They get no money from the big games but have to bear the full costs of staging their own matches while paying rent to MCC.

    4) It's a bugger to get to.
    4 isn't right - Lords is very well served by public transport, there must be about 10 tube stations within 15mins walk. Admittedly there isn't one very very close (it closed many many years ago), and there isn't a big bus garage outside.
    So not too bad for Londoners.

    What about away fans, which is where you make your money?

    The only main line station nearby is Marylebone. Trains to Birmingham. Nowhere else.

    No car parking.

    Buses - well, again, great for Londoners.

    So fine for Surrey and Warwickshire.

    Rubbish for every fan in Division 2.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Well if Surrey own the Oval they have a huge asset and can be expected to get a return. Whereas if Middlesex own nothing then they can expect commensurate returns.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    It's a negotiating ploy: no way is Middlesex leaving Lords.
    The sensible alternative solution might be full merger with the MCC.

    Or indeed, to wind up the MCC and transfer its assets to Middlesex.

    But I can't see that happening.
    The reality is that Middlesex has it pretty good. Sure, they need to rent the ground from the MCC for games. But in return for which, their members get priority access to seats for International games, and they get a ground that is kept impeccably, and in a perfect location for people who work in London, or who live in North or West London.

    Any other ground would attract fewer fans, would cost money to maintain, and would involve losing test match ticket access for members.

    It's not happening.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,747
    boulay said:

    a

    Andy_JS said:

    If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?

    Ask the Sec. of the Central Transcarpathian Branch of the Conservative Party?


    He looks like he’s just about to lock an innocent member of the Tory party in a flat after sucking him dry, of blood obviously.
    It rather reminds me of John Redwood miming the Welsh national anthem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Looking at that poll if Houchen does win, the lack of a Reform candidate could be key
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
    Hard to tell much about them in the absence of facts. I suppose we could just go off our feelings.
    Or, again, look at the facts?

    “During the day, the vicinity around the Centre Pompidou and Les Halles, the renowned indoor mall, is safe, boasting numerous eateries and attracting crowds. However, Saturday nights see Les Halles becoming less visitor-friendly. The vast Chatelêt-Les Halles metro station, possibly the world's largest, is a place to be cautious, especially post-sunset.”

    https://www.ratepunk.com/blog/post/places-to-avoid-in-paris#

    I keep being right, don’t I?

    I’m giving you photos and evidence

    There is nowhere in central london remotely as menacing as what I just saw in Les Halles. It doesn’t help that they’ve built the worlds most hideous shopping centre, replacing the previous building, which was previously the worlds most hideous shopping centre
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    "Boring sport anyway. Luke, we're gonna have company!"
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    1) They're going bust due to pensions issues;

    2) They can't get into Lord's half the time because of the Hundred and international matches but playing at outgrounds costs a fortune. They're actually going to be moving to Chelmsford for chunks of the one day cup.

    3) They get no money from the big games but have to bear the full costs of staging their own matches while paying rent to MCC.

    4) It's a bugger to get to.
    4 isn't right - Lords is very well served by public transport, there must be about 10 tube stations within 15mins walk. Admittedly there isn't one very very close (it closed many many years ago), and there isn't a big bus garage outside.
    Eh?

    St John's Wood tube is about five minutes walk from the North Gate on Finchley Road.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

    I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

    Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.
    I’m in Les Halles now. My god. Horribly menacing

    Groups of men all drinking. Hundreds. Like a convention or aggressive young hobos. Very few women. This is meant to be the Parisian Covent Garden



    I mean, they look friendly don’t they. Charming French characters. Might go over for a chat about patisserie
    Hard to tell much about them in the absence of facts. I suppose we could just go off our feelings.
    Or, again, look at the facts?

    “During the day, the vicinity around the Centre Pompidou and Les Halles, the renowned indoor mall, is safe, boasting numerous eateries and attracting crowds. However, Saturday nights see Les Halles becoming less visitor-friendly. The vast Chatelêt-Les Halles metro station, possibly the world's largest, is a place to be cautious, especially post-sunset.”

    https://www.ratepunk.com/blog/post/places-to-avoid-in-paris#

    I keep being right, don’t I?

    I’m giving you photos and evidence

    There is nowhere in central london remotely as menacing as what I just saw in Les Halles. It doesn’t help that they’ve built the worlds most hideous shopping centre, replacing the previous building, which was previously the worlds most hideous shopping centre
    I defer to your lived experience.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited April 20
    Andy_JS said:

    South Africa election on 29th May.

    "The economy has expanded by just 0.3% a year on average over the past decade — well below what was needed to maintain living standards for the growing population. The unemployment rate stood at 32% at the end of 2023, and the income gap between rich and poor is wider than anywhere else in the world, according to available data compiled by the Thomas Piketty-backed World Inequality Lab.

    Almost daily rolling blackouts have frustrated citizens and disrupted the economy, and the dysfunctional freight-rail system and ports hobble exorts. Ramaphosa is trying to tackle those problems by increasing purchase of power from private producers, making it easier for companies to generate their own electricity and enabling private train operators to use the state logistics company’s tracks.

    He’s also increasing the size of the police force to try and bring crime under control. Over 80 people are murdered in South Africa each day, with the per-capita homicide rate more than five times the international average."

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-19/south-african-elections-what-if-the-anc-has-to-share-power

    The ANC haven't lost a South African general election for nearly 30 years so I doubt it changes much.

    The DA opposition will hope to see a swing to them though based on current polls and should win their Western Cape heartland comfortably

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_South_African_general_election#Opinion_polls
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Yes, quite right. The whole South London experiment must surely soon be due to be ploughed over and it returned to farmland and hunting estates. One day again it'll be what it once was!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    1) They're going bust due to pensions issues;

    2) They can't get into Lord's half the time because of the Hundred and international matches but playing at outgrounds costs a fortune. They're actually going to be moving to Chelmsford for chunks of the one day cup.

    3) They get no money from the big games but have to bear the full costs of staging their own matches while paying rent to MCC.

    4) It's a bugger to get to.
    4 isn't right - Lords is very well served by public transport, there must be about 10 tube stations within 15mins walk. Admittedly there isn't one very very close (it closed many many years ago), and there isn't a big bus garage outside.
    Eh?

    St John's Wood tube is about five minutes walk from the North Gate on Finchley Road.
    There used to be a 'Lords' station - which was about 2 minutes walk from the ground.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    London and Paris... It was the best of threads, it was the worst of threads...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    London and Paris... It was the best of threads, it was the worst of threads...
    It is a far, far better thing we do now...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol

    Watched three episodes. That was enough.
    It’s not as good as “Analy in Paris” but weirdly that’s not on Netflix.
    Xvideo ?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    London and Paris... It was the best of threads, it was the worst of threads...
    It is a far, far better thing we do now...
    It is a feeling of relief, almost of pleasure, at knowing yourself at last genuinely down and out. You have talked so often of going to the dogs — and well, here are the dogs, and you have reached them, and you can stand it. It takes off a lot of anxiety.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    Cannock. I used to work in Bridgtown. Had chums there and and Norton Canes and Cheslyn Hay. Happy days.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

    Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

    Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
    The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

    https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

    “Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
    I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
    Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
    Did she?

    She turned up to Trump's inauguration. She phoned to congratulate him as the winner. She wrote a book about her loss.

    So, I'm just wondering about the evidence for the statement "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    Could you perhaps enlighten me?
    Certainly.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

    Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
    That in no way backs up your claims that "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    I have searched the internet, and while there are plenty of polls that show that people believe that Russia interfered in the election*, I was only able to find one - a September 2017 poll from The Washington Post-University of Maryland - that showed that 1 in 10 Americans believed that Clinton actually won the 2016 election.

    * In that they sowed discord via social media, which is true.
    The statement "Russian interference swung the election and Clinton *would have* won in its absence" is not equivalent to saying that in actual fact, Clinton did win. Why are you conflating the two?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    Cannock. I used to work in Bridgtown. Had chums there and and Norton Canes and Cheslyn Hay. Happy days.
    I was driving a 3.5t van through Bridgtown this afternoon, shuffling some heavy stuff around for the loft conversion.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

    Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

    Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
    The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

    https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

    “Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
    I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
    Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
    Did she?

    She turned up to Trump's inauguration. She phoned to congratulate him as the winner. She wrote a book about her loss.

    So, I'm just wondering about the evidence for the statement "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    Could you perhaps enlighten me?
    Certainly.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

    Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
    That in no way backs up your claims that "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    I have searched the internet, and while there are plenty of polls that show that people believe that Russia interfered in the election*, I was only able to find one - a September 2017 poll from The Washington Post-University of Maryland - that showed that 1 in 10 Americans believed that Clinton actually won the 2016 election.

    * In that they sowed discord via social media, which is true.
    The statement "Russian interference swung the election and Clinton *would have* won in its absence" is not equivalent to saying that in actual fact, Clinton did win. Why are you conflating the two?
    But that's not what you claimed. You claimed:

    "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    That loud thump was Putin shitting himself.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    Walk there quite often.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,549
    edited April 20
    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    Linky: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68861011

    Israel bill now being voted on.

    Edit: The final result was 311-112.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Money. Have big matches involving teams from other countries playing there at Lords the time, people who want the kudos of playing at the ground.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

    Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

    Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
    The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

    https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

    “Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
    I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
    Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
    Did she?

    She turned up to Trump's inauguration. She phoned to congratulate him as the winner. She wrote a book about her loss.

    So, I'm just wondering about the evidence for the statement "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    Could you perhaps enlighten me?
    Certainly.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

    Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
    That in no way backs up your claims that "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

    I have searched the internet, and while there are plenty of polls that show that people believe that Russia interfered in the election*, I was only able to find one - a September 2017 poll from The Washington Post-University of Maryland - that showed that 1 in 10 Americans believed that Clinton actually won the 2016 election.

    * In that they sowed discord via social media, which is true.
    The statement "Russian interference swung the election and Clinton *would have* won in its absence" is not equivalent to saying that in actual fact, Clinton did win. Why are you conflating the two?
    But that's not what you claimed. You claimed:

    "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."
    Yes, the legitimate winner, not the actual winner. She called Trump illegitimate and cast doubt on the validity of the election.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    YES. Credit to Johnson, this may cost him his job as Speaker but he had done the right thing. Hopefully the US military are sitting there with the planes loaded.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    I wonder if Mike Johnson can relate...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    Cannock. I used to work in Bridgtown. Had chums there and and Norton Canes and Cheslyn Hay. Happy days.
    I was driving a 3.5t van through Bridgtown this afternoon, shuffling some heavy stuff around for the loft conversion.
    It’s changed a lot since I had friends there. Long since moved.

    I used to work at the lighting factory which I think shut many years ago.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    ydoethur said:

    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    No wonder Armstrong and Aldrin kept him up in the Command Module!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517
    ydoethur said:

    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    I wonder if Mike Johnson can relate...

    Collins was an incedibly brave man who knew that he was speaking the truth.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Citeh score against Chelsea in the FA cup semi.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Citeh score. All that foreign money buying another competition.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    Linky: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68861011

    Israel bill now being voted on.

    Edit: The final result was 311-112.
    Not even close in the end. Great result.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    Middlesex are exploring the possibility of leaving Lord’s and making their main home at a newly developed ground in northwest London. The club have played at and operated out of the world’s most famous cricket ground since their foundation in 1864 but have only ever been tenants as the site is owned by MCC.

    The Middlesex chief executive Andrew Cornish told The Sunday Times that a lot of people were interested in investing in cricket and “the Middlesex brand internationally is very strong”, indicating the likely involvement of overseas backers.

    One option would be for the club to be based at another ground with some big games still played at Lord’s.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/sport/cricket/article/middlesex-considering-leaving-lords-cricket-county-championship-zn876m06m

    I can't make head or tail of the reasoning. Perhaps no revenue from mcc members that they might get otherwise?
    Middlesex executives insist there are no feelings of bitterness when they look across the Thames at the financial powerhouse that their London neighbours Surrey have become, but they could be forgiven for being a little jealous.

    Surrey recently announced a profit of £8 million on a turnover of £65 million, of which around half came from the kind of conferencing and hospitality events that Middlesex struggle to put on because they do not own their own ground. Lord’s, where they play most of their home games, is a cash-cow on a par with the Oval — but for MCC, the owners, not their tenants. Middlesex were this year pleased simply to announce a surplus of £131,000, their first profit since 2016.
    Who hasn't looked across the Thames to South London and felt a pang of jealousy?
    Those of us who have the good fortune to live on Cannock Chase?

    (This isn't going to degenerate into another thread about London, is it?)
    London and Paris... It was the best of threads, it was the worst of threads...
    Down (the pub) and Out (on expenses) in Paris and London.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Going to give Michael Palin in Nigeria a try. On Channel 5.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    Taz said:

    Citeh score. All that foreign money buying another competition.

    TBH it has been a pretty disappointing game. Huge amounts of effort but no quality in the finishing or even the final ball at all. Really not what you would expect from 2 such fine teams.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    That loud thump was Putin shitting himself.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/20/us-house-approves-61bn-aid-ukraine
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    ydoethur said:

    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    I wonder if Mike Johnson can relate...

    Collins was an incedibly brave man who knew that he was speaking the truth.
    Ironic it took killing him for Dev to realise that 26/32 of a loaf is a lot more than 0/32. Also that once you have got 26/32 of a loaf, you can negotiate for more.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Evening all :)

    I didn't comment on the YouGov London poll from yesterday. The Standard treated it as a huge game changer but in truth cutting a deficit from 25 to 19 over a month with less than two weeks to the vote isn't probably that great. As might be expected, Khan has strengthened his lead in Inner London while it's much closer in Outer London.

    The demographic spread is more predictable - Hall and Khan are level among those aged 50-64 and Hall leads Khan by 17 points among those aged 65+ but among the 25-49 group (which is numerically strong in London) Khan leads by 45 points.

    It's possible Hall will get 30% which in the current climate isn't bad but Khan is well clear and the other candidates are scrapping for a quarter of the vote. I received my election address booklet this morning and it will make bedtime reading (or travel reading on Monday).

    YouGov also did a Westminster GE poll which had Labour ahead 55% to 16% and it's interesting an albeit very small sub sample for south London has the Conservatives on 21% and the LDs on 18% which perhaps augurs well for LD prospects in Sutton, Kingston and Richmond.

    London as a whole voted 48-32-15 in 2019 so that's a solid 10.5% swing from Conservative to Labour across the capital. That won't claim every Conservative seat in the capital but it will put the sitting Conservatives even in the Outer Suburbs under pressure.

    As we are seeing in the West Midlands and the Tees Valley, it seems Conservative Mayoral candidates are running ahead of the national party though whether that will be enough to save Street and Houchen remains to be seen and it's hard currently to see Hall reversing a 19 point deficit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    Linky: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68861011

    Israel bill now being voted on.

    Edit: The final result was 311-112.
    Not even close in the end. Great result.
    The result of a vote being foregone was why the ultras were demanding that no vote take place.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
    Now that worries me... there we were planning the future of the universe on the Leon mantra, and now you suggest that it might be quite clever to fix a photo!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
    No, I was just curious if the angle - Paris gone to the dogs - was agreed before you went?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    101 Republicans for, 112 against. Stories of Trump's complete dominance of the GOP may prove to be just a little overstated.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
    No, I was just curious if the angle - Paris gone to the dogs - was agreed before you went?
    Yet there is aucun chien in each photo, let alone for scale.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    I think I've found some value.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,517

    ydoethur said:

    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    I wonder if Mike Johnson can relate...

    Collins was an incedibly brave man who knew that he was speaking the truth.
    Ironic it took killing him for Dev to realise that 26/32 of a loaf is a lot more than 0/32. Also that once you have got 26/32 of a loaf, you can negotiate for more.
    de Valera was a scumbag coward who made sure he got the result he wanted whilst also making sure he wouldn't be blamed for it.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    edited April 20

    kle4 said:

    Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?

    I have two signed copies of the great man's autobiography.
    Do you have any of Cameron’s as well?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
    No, I was just curious if the angle - Paris gone to the dogs - was agreed before you went?
    Non mon ami. I am here to write about the beauties of Brittany and Normandy. I just got French tourism to tack on a couple of nights in Paris because 1. Haven’t been here in five years and 2. I really want to see the great Impressionist 150 year exhibition

    I am genuinely surprised and dismayed by the state of Paris. It’s still a magnificent city but it has massive problems and needs a lot of TLC. I don’t see how they are going to make it all lovely by the Olympics
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Andy_JS said:

    Going to give Michael Palin in Nigeria a try. On Channel 5.

    On the subject of Nigeria, I have just finished reading The Interpreters by Wole Soyinka. I have to say that I was not particularly struck by it. I couldn't really get into the characters as much as I would have liked, and the story was a bit all over the place.

    Hopefully whoever retrieved my discarded copy from the train I left it on will enjoy it more.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited April 20
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/20/labour-target-tory-over-65s-poll-pension-cuts-jeremy-hunt-tax-blunder

    Just up. The Tories spend decades linking NI* to state pensions and the NHS, as seen on here only a few weeks ago, and then wonder why a move towards abolishing NI upsets their core voters?

    *National Insurance. Not the Six Counties.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    DavidL said:

    101 Republicans for, 112 against. Stories of Trump's complete dominance of the GOP may prove to be just a little overstated.

    The whole thing is ridiculous. NATO should just intervene, and if it did so on the basis of 2014 then Putin would agree.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213

    ydoethur said:

    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    I wonder if Mike Johnson can relate...

    Collins was an incedibly brave man who knew that he was speaking the truth.
    Ironic it took killing him for Dev to realise that 26/32 of a loaf is a lot more than 0/32. Also that once you have got 26/32 of a loaf, you can negotiate for more.
    de Valera was a scumbag coward who made sure he got the result he wanted whilst also making sure he wouldn't be blamed for it.
    I wouldn’t call de Valera a scumbag coward.

    What I would call him would probably get an instant ban.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,798
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    I don't have a link, but I think the Ukraine part of the bill in Congress has been passed.

    That loud thump was Putin shitting himself.
    More likely furious. "But I PAID for that vote."
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

    Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

    Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
    The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

    https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

    “Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
    I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
    Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
    She and Liz Truss would get on.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Paris is making me feel an awful lot better about london. So there is that

    Have you been commissioned to write an article about how Paris is in decline?
    Didn’t Blair* already do that one?

    * Eric
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Further to my comment yesterday on past crimes and behaviour the Prosecution want to cross-examine him on if he decides to testify.

    In New York it is called a Sandoval Notice.

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ft76sb7N2qQ
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    One thing the French have done which is really stupid is cling on to lots of covid crap. Barriers and temporary shelters and stuff. London has some but Paris has loads and it now looks really ratty and ugly

    Also, mayor hidalgos passion for cycles means she’s built loads of temporary cycle lanes but she’s done it with massive concrete blocks. They’re fugly - like terror barriers. A total blemish along the boulevards
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    112 GOP votes to side with Putin .

    Utter scum , rot in hell .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,098
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
    No, I was just curious if the angle - Paris gone to the dogs - was agreed before you went?
    Non mon ami. I am here to write about the beauties of Brittany and Normandy. I just got French tourism to tack on a couple of nights in Paris because 1. Haven’t been here in five years and 2. I really want to see the great Impressionist 150 year exhibition

    I am genuinely surprised and dismayed by the state of Paris. It’s still a magnificent city but it has massive problems and needs a lot of TLC. I don’t see how they are going to make it all lovely by the Olympics
    Might go again one day. Been a while.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

    Now do the rest of the western world


    Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

    A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
    No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

    I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
    But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?
    He could write that from home, untroubled by actual evidence
    Seemed to have sussed it all within 10 minutes of arriving. So I kind of wondered whether the 'angle' was already agreed. I guess that does happen in that industry. Journalism.
    You think I fabricated all those photos? Quite clever of me
    No, I was just curious if the angle - Paris gone to the dogs - was agreed before you went?
    Non mon ami. I am here to write about the beauties of Brittany and Normandy. I just got French tourism to tack on a couple of nights in Paris because 1. Haven’t been here in five years and 2. I really want to see the great Impressionist 150 year exhibition

    I am genuinely surprised and dismayed by the state of Paris. It’s still a magnificent city but it has massive problems and needs a lot of TLC. I don’t see how they are going to make it all lovely by the Olympics
    Paris is a shithole.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    On the upside Paris does now have Uber. Thank god. So it’s quite easy to get out of the grim areas
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited April 20
    Andy_JS said:

    Going to give Michael Palin in Nigeria a try. On Channel 5.

    I watched last weeks. A fascinating country. It is going to be a significant part of this century, though quite yet we don't know how.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    ydoethur said:

    Michael Collins said of the Anglo-Irish Treaty, 'Today I signed my death warrant.'

    I wonder if Mike Johnson can relate...

    Collins was an incedibly brave man who knew that he was speaking the truth.
    so Mike Johnson won't be able to relate then?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    nico679 said:

    112 GOP votes to side with Putin .

    Utter scum , rot in hell .

    Why? What did the people of hell do to with you that was so bad?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Leon said:

    On the upside Paris does now have Uber. Thank god. So it’s quite easy to get out of the grim areas

    Not so cheap to the Belgian border though, and that's only a mild relief.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    "The House passed four foreign aid bills with bipartisan support on Saturday, approving funding for Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel, among other measures. The measures will now go to the Senate, where they are expected to be taken up starting on Tuesday.

    * The 21st Century Peace through Strength Act, which includes imposing sanctions on Russia and Iran as well as regulations on TikTok, passed 360-58."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/20/house-vote-ukraine-israel-aid-johnson/

    FWIW, more Republicans backed the aid for Israel than Democrats. (As I understand it, the TikTok provision requires it to be sold to an American company, within six months.)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    ydoethur said:

    nico679 said:

    112 GOP votes to side with Putin .

    Utter scum , rot in hell .

    Why? What did the people of hell do to with you that was so bad?
    If I had my way the 112 would be done for treason and rotting in jail for the rest of their lives .
This discussion has been closed.