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Street’s ahead – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    Context is everything.
    Well I haven't seen the entire article as it is paywalled. Neither have you, I suspect.
    Entire article:
    https://archive.ph/iFzFe
    Good for middle aged loaded old lads mag. Unsuitable for a politics, culture and current affairs magazine. Its not exactly rocket science.
    The Spectator has ALWAYS been like this. It mixes the high and the low, the sordid and the cerebral, the arts and the heart. And it seeks to surprise as all good magazines should


    I very much doubt you subscribe, or ever will, and as it’s paywalled that means you never read it, so why on earth should they care what you think?
    And I don't care if they care or not, its very much up to them. Just commenting on here as the topic du jour.
    My point is you are acting as if this is some sordid new departure for the Spectator. It really isn’t. I’m old enough to remember when they ran a piece about a guy “wanking himself into hospital” which became mildly celebrated and got quoted in the US Congress and cited in famous books of psychology. So none of this is new
    I doubt it shall survive contact with the generation or two below you, it shall have to choose one or the other.
    You could be right. It’s not looking good. Here’s their 200 years of sales in a graph



    Yes its popular with the posher end of the lads mag readership of the 90s. How did those fare with Gen Z?
    I think it's wrong to attribute this to boomers. It's the old forgotten Gen X again, ignored in the Boomer-Millennial culture wars. Gen X, people from about 45 to 60 now.

    My impression is this is the most hedonistic, don't give a shit of all the generations. The late 90s and early noughties when GenX were young were the peak of lad mags but also the celebration of binge drinking and drug taking, popular culture that didn't take itself too seriously, and apolitical comedy from The Office to the Fast Show to Reeves and Mortimer. And the nadir (in the sense of they didn't exist) of the culture wars. Toxic in many ways in both a literal and figurative sense, but also good fun.

    I miss all that. I know parts of it were bad and not to be repeated, but I'm a creature of that era and it's hard not to be nostalgic for it.
    They're enjoyable to discuss but tbh I'm not sure how meaningful these "Gens" are. Most of how the world changes happens gradually and continuously rather than by "decade" or by "generation".
    Dunno, my brother is just in tail end of gen X (I'm early millennial) and we're chalk and cheese. I'm measured, sensible, avocado on toast kind of guy (until I discovered the environmental impact of avocado and decided to buy a house instead). He's a walking celebration of binge drinking and drug taking, popular culture that didn't take itself too seriously etc. At least, he's a Chartered Accountant, so I assume it follows that all that is true? :wink:
    Arguably the development of personal computer, followed by the internet, and then smartphones account for more sharply delineated, and worldwide generational divides in a way which was previously only true of global wars ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Dunno, but it sounds completely Ulyssless.
    Ah good news. So I've read it now then. A masterpiece, no question.
    How could you not recognise the absolutely unmistakeable prose style - and one of the most famous passages
    Quite a passage, isn't it. That repeated "O", for example. Very unusual.

    Better listened to than read, though, I'm thinking?
    Joyce is describing orgasm
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,172

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Dunno, but it sounds completely Ulyssless.
    Tldr; Ulyssee ee ee ee eez no one else can do the things you do.
    I loved that show as a kid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev1aBt-_Zs4
    Not forgetting Willy Fog.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nGrYEFG6Ho
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Dunno, but it sounds completely Ulyssless.
    Ah good news. So I've read it now then. A masterpiece, no question.
    How could you not recognise the absolutely unmistakeable prose style - and one of the most famous passages
    Quite a passage, isn't it. That repeated "O", for example. Very unusual.

    Better listened to than read, though, I'm thinking?
    Joyce is describing orgasm
    I wonder if the line where a guy describes his "O face" in Office Space is a Joycean literary allusion?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,772
    Rishi going after sick notes now and suggesting there’ll be some gang of government fitness to work regulators instead (with what money?)

    He really is clueless. His finger is so far off the pulse it’s incredible.

    Reform/Tory crossover incoming.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    What's silly old Sir Keir gone and done now?
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 99
    Conservatives in 2024: mega taxes, loves mass immigration, loves spending billions to faceless burraucrats, hates workers, destroyed the NHS, obsessed with “trans” and “woke” nonsense while the roads are full of potholes, zero common sense

    Is this the worst government in history? I think so.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    The tale of Puberty blockers in Scotland - the Sandyford clinic decided a month ago to stop prescribing new patients and prioritised telling patients over politicians - who were left looking even more foolish, having spent days doing “Cass review?” “Never heard of it/doesn’t apply here/trans genocide” after its publication.

    https://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,puberty-blockers-the-medical-controversy-scotlands-experts-dont-want-to-talk-about

    Nice to see one grown up in the room.

    The Cass review has crossed the Pond.

    Here’s an amusing 10 minutes of American feminist comedian (and occasional Spectator columnist) Bridget Phetasy, ranting about it, and wondering how long it will take for all this to get get shut down in the States.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=QgYFT4ZXjEQ
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    Context is everything.
    Well I haven't seen the entire article as it is paywalled. Neither have you, I suspect.
    Entire article:
    https://archive.ph/iFzFe
    Good for middle aged loaded old lads mag. Unsuitable for a politics, culture and current affairs magazine. Its not exactly rocket science.
    The Spectator has ALWAYS been like this. It mixes the high and the low, the sordid and the cerebral, the arts and the heart. And it seeks to surprise as all good magazines should


    I very much doubt you subscribe, or ever will, and as it’s paywalled that means you never read it, so why on earth should they care what you think?
    And I don't care if they care or not, its very much up to them. Just commenting on here as the topic du jour.
    My point is you are acting as if this is some sordid new departure for the Spectator. It really isn’t. I’m old enough to remember when they ran a piece about a guy “wanking himself into hospital” which became mildly celebrated and got quoted in the US Congress and cited in famous books of psychology. So none of this is new
    I doubt it shall survive contact with the generation or two below you, it shall have to choose one or the other.
    You could be right. It’s not looking good. Here’s their 200 years of sales in a graph



    Yes its popular with the posher end of the lads mag readership of the 90s. How did those fare with Gen Z?
    I think it's wrong to attribute this to boomers. It's the old forgotten Gen X again, ignored in the Boomer-Millennial culture wars. Gen X, people from about 45 to 60 now.

    My impression is this is the most hedonistic, don't give a shit of all the generations. The late 90s and early noughties when GenX were young were the peak of lad mags but also the celebration of binge drinking and drug taking, popular culture that didn't take itself too seriously, and apolitical comedy from The Office to the Fast Show to Reeves and Mortimer. And the nadir (in the sense of they didn't exist) of the culture wars. Toxic in many ways in both a literal and figurative sense, but also good fun.

    I miss all that. I know parts of it were bad and not to be repeated, but I'm a creature of that era and it's hard not to be nostalgic for it.
    They're enjoyable to discuss but tbh I'm not sure how meaningful these "Gens" are. Most of how the world changes happens gradually and continuously rather than by "decade" or by "generation".
    I'm mildly irritated that in the UK I'm in Generation X, but here in Germany the Baby Boomer definition runs almost to the break up of the Beatles, which puts me comfortably in the Boomer generation :-(
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    bobbob said:

    Conservatives in 2024: mega taxes, loves mass immigration, loves spending billions to faceless burraucrats, hates workers, destroyed the NHS, obsessed with “trans” and “woke” nonsense while the roads are full of potholes, zero common sense

    Is this the worst government in history? I think so.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/submit/

    You're a natural fit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    What's silly old Sir Keir gone and done now?
    That's why there's less anger than Leon expected.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 99

    Rishi going after sick notes now and suggesting there’ll be some gang of government fitness to work regulators instead (with what money?)

    He really is clueless. His finger is so far off the pulse it’s incredible.

    Reform/Tory crossover incoming.

    They will bring immigrants in to do it no doubt processed using infosys systems.

    Why isn’t he using the approved Tory woke double-speak of “fit notes”?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited April 19

    Rishi going after sick notes now and suggesting there’ll be some gang of government fitness to work regulators instead (with what money?)

    He really is clueless. His finger is so far off the pulse it’s incredible.

    Reform/Tory crossover incoming.

    The obvious counterspin to the policy.

    After leaving the NHS on its knees and making Britain sicker, the Tories have decided to...blame the doctors.

    This country is crying out for a general election.

    https://twitter.com/Alison_McGovern/status/1781259155841364301
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,363
    bobbob said:



    Rishi going after sick notes now and suggesting there’ll be some gang of government fitness to work regulators instead (with what money?)

    He really is clueless. His finger is so far off the pulse it’s incredible.

    Reform/Tory crossover incoming.

    They will bring immigrants in to do it no doubt processed using infosys systems.

    Why isn’t he using the approved Tory woke double-speak of “fit notes”?
    Now I'm really confused. I thought "fit note" was the opposite of woke, or something.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    Perhaps it is an issue that only bothers the FBPE fanatics and that tit in the Top hat ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

    But it is in fact an illustration a) of the failings of AI; and b) that the Speccie piece is nothing new, and that people have been outraged by the male view of the female for centuries.
    Oh dear, the Captain is straining to condescend again. Never a pretty sight.
    You have bought all the trappings of a Hampstead artsy-fartsy intellectual apart from the artsy-fartsy intellectual bit.
    I'm not 'artsy-fartsy'. You shouldn't think I am just because I live in NW3.

    I was just asking you a question but it seems to have triggered something I wasn't looking for. Ah well. Live and learn.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

    But it is in fact an illustration a) of the failings of AI; and b) that the Speccie piece is nothing new, and that people have been outraged by the male view of the female for centuries.
    Oh dear, the Captain is straining to condescend again. Never a pretty sight.
    You have bought all the trappings of a Hampstead artsy-fartsy intellectual apart from the artsy-fartsy intellectual bit.
    I'm not 'artsy-fartsy'. You shouldn't think I am just because I live in NW3.

    I was just asking you a question but it seems to have triggered something I wasn't looking for. Ah well. Live and learn.
    I think you should tell him you are a qualified Chartered Accountant. For all heir many virtues accountants are not often known for being intellectual or 'artsy-fartsy', though to be fair he did say "apart from" lol.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

    But it is in fact an illustration a) of the failings of AI; and b) that the Speccie piece is nothing new, and that people have been outraged by the male view of the female for centuries.
    How can supposedly intelligent people on PB not recognise that excerpt? It’s like a reader survey of the site. Not very impressive

    Talking of AI - as you did - I had drinks with a photographer friend in Highgate last night. He’s very smart and quite tech literate but still clueless (like 99% of people) about how far A.I. has come

    So I sat with him at the pub table and got out my phone and summoned Claude 3 Opus. Then we both fed it a 90,000 word PDF of a novel - simply attached the file.

    Wow. I have honestly never seen intellectual shock exhibited so profoundly. Claude (of course) took the book, read it, devoured it, then spooled out a long detailed critique, right down to character arcs and specific plot weaknesses and chapters with poor dialogue. And all forensically accurate

    Claude did all this in 50 seconds. From start to finish. Did what an expert editor might do in days, after weeks of delay

    My friend was literally speechless. He sat there in silence. Finally he said “fuck”. Then: “this is going to change everything”

    So I’ve now learned what you have to do to get people to understand. You have to literally SHOW them. And then they respond like Amazonian Indians seeing their first plane
    Yes it is interesting. But take that passage. It shows an essential truth about humanity that one person describes which reflects their life experiences.

    This comes back to the test you did a while back about who could spot the Kandinsky. And no one was 100% successful IIRC. Plus the "a six year old could do that" criticism/comment on some modern art. Or Carl Andre's bricks.

    It is the intention that is critical to art works. I don't dispute that AI is a tool for artistic creation, not at all. But in this case it is you and your mate who set the initial conditions. Will it be mistaken for Joyce? Perhaps. Will "AI" have the same insight into the human condition as Joyce had? Never.
    But it doesn’t matter. We won’t be able to tell the difference

    Check out udio. It is making music as good as or better than humans, it just needs to up the audio quality and that’s that

    Before the moderators ban me for A.I. chat I am off to have oysters any minute! I’m not going to bang on
    I have always wondered whether you are actually AI generated.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Scott_xP said:

    @BestForBritain

    Sunak tries to brush off questions about the scandal surrounding alegations against Tory MP Menzies.

    VY: Why did you take so long to start an investigation?
    RS: The investigation is ongoing now, so I can't tell you.

    How is he SO BAD at every aspect of this job? ~AA

    Now ask Sir Keir about Nick Brown
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,283
    bobbob said:

    Conservatives in 2024: mega taxes, loves mass immigration, loves spending billions to faceless burraucrats, hates workers, destroyed the NHS, obsessed with “trans” and “woke” nonsense while the roads are full of potholes, zero common sense

    Is this the worst government in history? I think so.

    It will almost certainly be quickly toppled from that accolade by the next one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    I don't blame them, but are your youngsters quite typical? This polling was from Peston and pretty convincing:


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,172
    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    "You can take camping cutlery and tools like pocket or Swiss army knives, as long as any blades are less than 3" (75mm) long. Any folding knife with a blade that locks is strictly prohibited, regardless of size."

    https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/travel-info/travel-planning/luggage/sports-and-camping-equipment
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    What's silly old Sir Keir gone and done now?
    There was a report that the EU may or may not be thinking of some kind of FOM for young people. Instead of jumping onto an unknown proposal that may or may not even exist, Sir Keith "Genocide & Kid Starver" Starmer announced that he had "no plans" to adopt such a policy.

    What kind of moron would wait to receive an actual proposal, read it & consider the implications before announcing they are in favour of it? That kind of evidence based, thoughtful policy making is at the heart of what is Destroying Britain.

    What we need, desperately, is policy making where it's made up while taking a slash, to get a headline.
    No, this was a definite if initial offer from the EU, and Labour's reaction was to "rebuff it" and why? "Because it crosses our Brexit red lines". Absolutely mental
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 99
    Get ill or injured, queue for days to see your doctor, spend weeks to see another doctor, your doctor can’t write a sick note so you have to queue to see an unqualified government bureaucrat to write you a “fit note” for your work

    Soviet Russia or Sunak Britain?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    "You can take camping cutlery and tools like pocket or Swiss army knives, as long as any blades are less than 3" (75mm) long. Any folding knife with a blade that locks is strictly prohibited, regardless of size."

    https://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/travel-info/travel-planning/luggage/sports-and-camping-equipment
    Cool, ta

    I might risk a little Opinel
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Dunno, but it sounds completely Ulyssless.
    Ah good news. So I've read it now then. A masterpiece, no question.
    How could you not recognise the absolutely unmistakeable prose style - and one of the most famous passages
    Quite a passage, isn't it. That repeated "O", for example. Very unusual.

    Better listened to than read, though, I'm thinking?
    Joyce is describing orgasm
    Yes, I can see that. Powerful stuff. I think I've heard this passage read aloud on the radio a few years ago. Not my cup of tea but ... yes powerful stuff.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    bobbob said:

    Get ill or injured, queue for days to see your doctor, spend weeks to see another doctor, your doctor can’t write a sick note so you have to queue to see an unqualified government bureaucrat to write you a “fit note” for your work

    Soviet Russia or Sunak Britain?

    Seems highly unlikely Sunak will be in office to carry out the ill-informed, reheated nonsense he came out with this morning.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    When Tory politicians mention a moral mission you know it’s going to be anything but.

    Sunak really is a vile disgusting odious twat . Horrible little man.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Nigelb said:

    Rishi going after sick notes now and suggesting there’ll be some gang of government fitness to work regulators instead (with what money?)

    He really is clueless. His finger is so far off the pulse it’s incredible.

    Reform/Tory crossover incoming.

    The obvious counterspin to the policy.

    After leaving the NHS on its knees and making Britain sicker, the Tories have decided to...blame the doctors.

    This country is crying out for a general election.

    https://twitter.com/Alison_McGovern/status/1781259155841364301
    Sunak is so poor at the job he appears not to know that the DWP already spend millions every year employing an army "of government fitness to work regulators" who assess all sickness and disability claims.

    No one gets more than a handful of initial weeks off sick/disabled on benefits based just on a GP's sick note.

    He is talking utter bollocks or he is deliberately lying to create a straw man that he can have a go at.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    bobbob said:

    Get ill or injured, queue for days to see your doctor, spend weeks to see another doctor, your doctor can’t write a sick note so you have to queue to see an unqualified government bureaucrat to write you a “fit note” for your work

    Soviet Russia or Sunak Britain?

    Seems highly unlikely Sunak will be in office to carry out the ill-informed, reheated nonsense he came out with this morning.
    He really should call the election now. There is nothing compassionate about leaving a generation of Tory MPs in limbo watching as their dreams slip further from reach every single day.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657
    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    The ONLY time in my entire life I have ended up voting for the winning MP in a seat was in 2005 when we lived in Selby. FPTP, eh!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

    But it is in fact an illustration a) of the failings of AI; and b) that the Speccie piece is nothing new, and that people have been outraged by the male view of the female for centuries.
    Oh dear, the Captain is straining to condescend again. Never a pretty sight.
    You have bought all the trappings of a Hampstead artsy-fartsy intellectual apart from the artsy-fartsy intellectual bit.
    I'm not 'artsy-fartsy'. You shouldn't think I am just because I live in NW3.

    I was just asking you a question but it seems to have triggered something I wasn't looking for. Ah well. Live and learn.
    "WTF is that?"

    One of us was triggered that's for sure.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    Yes it is all scanned.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    The ONLY time in my entire life I have ended up voting for the winning MP in a seat was in 2005 when we lived in Selby. FPTP, eh!
    I've never voted for the winning MP.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    Yes it is all scanned.
    And do they delve in and bin anything offensive? Sounds like they do. Might have to leave my machete and my Spyderco Tenacious at home
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Good.

    The Labour Party will send in the National Audit Office to investigate Teesworks if they win the next general election.
    https://twitter.com/leighsus/status/1780954779801542880
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    I don't blame them, but are your youngsters quite typical? This polling was from Peston and pretty convincing:


    I would favour real polling over my anecdata, for sure :smile:

    The group I describe are of course atypical - politically engaged, at the top end of the educational qualifications and, within that group, oddities in pursuing academia rather than opportunities elsewhere.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    Yes it is all scanned.
    And do they delve in and bin anything offensive? Sounds like they do. Might have to leave my machete and my Spyderco Tenacious at home
    That I can't tell you. But yes best leave that stuff at home unless you walk up to the conveyor belt carrying a pheasant carcass and say you are in the middle of breasting it.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Climate change causing record average global temperatures and volatility in specific locales.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    Martin Kettle had a good piece on this the other day:

    At present, Labour is keen to lock a future government’s relations with Europe in the pre-election long-stay car park. Starmer wants the forthcoming contest to be about Conservative economic failure, not about Brexit. Even Labour’s most passionate pro-Europeans have accepted that getting elected must come first. The party’s reluctance to air the European question too loudly before that is understandable. But this does not mean the question is going to go away in government...

    But Britain’s relationship with Europe cannot avoid being a key dynamic of any long-term national renewal project for Britain of the kind that Starmer promised to the Labour conference last year. Repair with Europe cannot be dodged indefinitely, whether in the context of domestic politics, international security or the economy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/18/keir-starmer-europe-economy-labour-eu

    Ahead of the election it's understandable that Labour don't want to let the Tories and Reform - and their media overlords - to start wittering on about how Brexit is in peril. They can't be allowed to get the old band back together.

    I did read somewhere else that 80% of the Labour membership want to rejoin. If they get a stonking majority that 80% won't be quiet. Especially if Leavers die off in ever greater numbers and are replaced by pro-EU people under 60 and the electoral prize of full-throated pro-EUism becomes too big to ignore.

    The Tories, the Leavers, want to lock Brexit in. They want Brexit to be permanent. And perhaps they will succeed. Kettle concedes that might well be the case. But where I think Kettle is right is that reality will push us back closer to the EU. The Leavers got high on their own supply and gave us an immensely damaging, rupturing, Brexit - a version of Brexit that if Cameron had had the sense to be properly defined ahead of the referendum would never have won.

    Business hates Brexit, everyone under 60 pretty much hates Brexit. We will become much closer to Europe and we will achieve BRINO. And as livid as I still am for what Brexit, and the liars who delivered it, have robbed me of, a return of sanity and closer relations and, hopefully, a return of at least some of the privileges my EU citizenship entitled me to, will help. A bit.

    I'm 46 and I knew several people - normal people, not upper-middle class people - who benefitted from Erasmus. An ex-girlfriend of mine spent a year in Aix-en-Provece and Valencia as part of her study. Now, obviously, the Leavers want these uppity working class kids to properly know their station in life and become plumbers or charwomen. But young people won't settle for not having what their parents had. And if young people get freedom of movement, well then their parents and people of my age who had it, will want it returned.
    I'm in my 50s, grammar school boy, full grant at uni. My dad was a farm labourer turned small businessman who left school at 15 with no qualifications. I benefited enormously from Erasmus. Spent a year studying physics in Germany, learned German and met my future wife there. It was the first time I travelled abroad and perhaps the most formative experience of my life.
    Let us know when you eventually get married.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    The GOP deadenders lose the key procedural vote. The House will get to decide on Ukraine aid.

    HOUSE LATEST

    • Rules Committee voted 9-3 to adopt the rule for the aid package (Massie/Roy/Norman voted NO, Ds voted yes)

    • House floor vote expected at ~10:30a today on the rule. Details: https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/Rule HR8034HR8035HR8036HR8038.pdf

    • Then ~1:00-1:30p votes tomorrow on passage of all 4 bills.

    https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1781286710946533690
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    nico679 said:

    When Tory politicians mention a moral mission you know it’s going to be anything but.

    Sunak really is a vile disgusting odious twat . Horrible little man.

    I really think I am developing Sunak Derangement Syndrome.

    Every time he opens his mouth nowadays my blood starts to boil.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679

    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
    An often misunderstood phrase

    The May in this saying is the May tree, the hawthorn. Cf "the bloom is on the blackthorn but not yet on the May"

    So what it is saying is you can't expect reliably warm weather until the hawthorn has blossomed, usually early-mid May

    It doesn't mention 18 months of fucking freezing monsoons
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Eabhal said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Just listened to a Labour spokesperson say Sunak is tinkering with this very serious problem and they will act vigorously on this, make what you will on that !!
    You'll be first up for the reopened slate mine at Blaenau Ffestiniog, desperately trying to get through to DWP before the minibus comes round to pick you up.
    Joking aside, what happens the first time someone (BigG is *NOT* in my mind here) dies as a result of one of those dodgy pretend doctor types' decisions?

    OTOH the NHS is already playing with substandard medics, aka "physician associates".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    Yes it is all scanned.
    And do they delve in and bin anything offensive? Sounds like they do. Might have to leave my machete and my Spyderco Tenacious at home
    That I can't tell you. But yes best leave that stuff at home unless you walk up to the conveyor belt carrying a pheasant carcass and say you are in the middle of breasting it.
    That's a whole different set of regs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    Yes it is all scanned.
    And do they delve in and bin anything offensive? Sounds like they do. Might have to leave my machete and my Spyderco Tenacious at home
    That I can't tell you. But yes best leave that stuff at home unless you walk up to the conveyor belt carrying a pheasant carcass and say you are in the middle of breasting it.
    They might suck their teeth a bit at the cleft sticks, too.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    What's silly old Sir Keir gone and done now?
    There was a report that the EU may or may not be thinking of some kind of FOM for young people. Instead of jumping onto an unknown proposal that may or may not even exist, Sir Keith "Genocide & Kid Starver" Starmer announced that he had "no plans" to adopt such a policy.

    What kind of moron would wait to receive an actual proposal, read it & consider the implications before announcing they are in favour of it? That kind of evidence based, thoughtful policy making is at the heart of what is Destroying Britain.

    What we need, desperately, is policy making where it's made up while taking a slash, to get a headline.
    No, this was a definite if initial offer from the EU, and Labour's reaction was to "rebuff it" and why? "Because it crosses our Brexit red lines". Absolutely mental
    It is perfectly sensible to rebuff it. Wages have finally gone up post-Brexit in the retail sector after decades of stagnation. Freedom of Movement, even initially limited to young people, would undermine that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
    An often misunderstood phrase

    The May in this saying is the May tree, the hawthorn. Cf "the bloom is on the blackthorn but not yet on the May"

    So what it is saying is you can't expect reliably warm weather until the hawthorn has blossomed, usually early-mid May

    It doesn't mention 18 months of fucking freezing monsoons
    New normal.

    You could ask Claude to pen new traditional doggerel more appropriate to our climate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    I don't blame them, but are your youngsters quite typical? This polling was from Peston and pretty convincing:


    Sleazy Lib Dems on the slide. Wid da yoof.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    What's silly old Sir Keir gone and done now?
    There was a report that the EU may or may not be thinking of some kind of FOM for young people. Instead of jumping onto an unknown proposal that may or may not even exist, Sir Keith "Genocide & Kid Starver" Starmer announced that he had "no plans" to adopt such a policy.

    What kind of moron would wait to receive an actual proposal, read it & consider the implications before announcing they are in favour of it? That kind of evidence based, thoughtful policy making is at the heart of what is Destroying Britain.

    What we need, desperately, is policy making where it's made up while taking a slash, to get a headline.
    No, this was a definite if initial offer from the EU, and Labour's reaction was to "rebuff it" and why? "Because it crosses our Brexit red lines". Absolutely mental
    It is perfectly sensible to rebuff it. Wages have finally gone up post-Brexit in the retail sector after decades of stagnation. Freedom of Movement, even initially limited to young people, would undermine that.
    90% of people who work for Labour, from canvassers to shadow ministers, will not see it that way. At all. They are fervent Remainers!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Can anyone tell me if luggage gets scanned at Eurostar? Like, if I take a Swiss Army knife etc will it get seized and chucked?

    Yes it is all scanned.
    And do they delve in and bin anything offensive? Sounds like they do. Might have to leave my machete and my Spyderco Tenacious at home
    That I can't tell you. But yes best leave that stuff at home unless you walk up to the conveyor belt carrying a pheasant carcass and say you are in the middle of breasting it.
    That's a whole different set of regs.
    My favourite was when my wife tried to "help out" by laying a bottle of champagne, which was in a disposable bag type ice bucket, on its side. To go through the Xray machine

    Fortunately, the machine didn't die from the wave of water.....
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?

    Yes, that is the big difference. I'm of the view that Reform won't actually amount to very much. And, @TSE that is an excellent betting tip. I still think a Street victory is unlikely, but it's more likely than the odds imply.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
    An often misunderstood phrase

    The May in this saying is the May tree, the hawthorn. Cf "the bloom is on the blackthorn but not yet on the May"

    So what it is saying is you can't expect reliably warm weather until the hawthorn has blossomed, usually early-mid May

    It doesn't mention 18 months of fucking freezing monsoons
    New normal.

    You could ask Claude to pen new traditional doggerel more appropriate to our climate.
    "The rain is on the pavement, and now it's on the pavement again"

    "Ne'er cast a brolly. Ever."

    "The rain is in the house and now it's drowned the mouse"

    "Who needs a fucking swimming pool, just take a walk"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Scott_xP said:

    Is he starting with his backbenchers?

    @SkyNews
    "We can't allow fraudsters to exploit the natural compassion and generosity of the British people."

    PM Rishi Sunak announces there will be a crackdown on fraud as part of his 'moral mission' to reform the welfare system

    Does PPE fraud count as people exploiting the natural compassion and generosity of the British people? Shouldn't he have cracked down on that?
    I think we all want that cracked down on. Is there evidence of actual fraud in PPE provision? If yes, please forward to the police, if they are not investigating.

    If, on the other hand, a bunch of people, potentially mates with ministers, responded to a national emergency by procuring PPE that was to spec and was used, but at a high price, then I don't think that's a huge issue.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 225
    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    The ONLY time in my entire life I have ended up voting for the winning MP in a seat was in 2005 when we lived in Selby. FPTP, eh!
    I've never voted for the winning MP.
    (Me neither.)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    nico679 said:

    When Tory politicians mention a moral mission you know it’s going to be anything but.

    Sunak really is a vile disgusting odious twat . Horrible little man.

    I really think I am developing Sunak Derangement Syndrome.

    Every time he opens his mouth nowadays my blood starts to boil.


    I think he's crap, but I don't lose my temper over him.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    I don't think it's that we assume he's lying, it's just that compared to ejecting this useless and utterly malign shower of shit from government we really don't care about anything else.
    The EU stuff will happen at some point because it's the will of the people and it's only going in one direction. I'm very relaxed about the timeline, personally. No rush.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    Nigelb said:

    The GOP deadenders lose the key procedural vote. The House will get to decide on Ukraine aid.

    HOUSE LATEST

    • Rules Committee voted 9-3 to adopt the rule for the aid package (Massie/Roy/Norman voted NO, Ds voted yes)

    • House floor vote expected at ~10:30a today on the rule. Details: https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/Rule HR8034HR8035HR8036HR8038.pdf

    • Then ~1:00-1:30p votes tomorrow on passage of all 4 bills.

    https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1781286710946533690

    The pro-Putin wing of the Republican Party is looking quite isolated.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    The amount of lies the media is pushing here is at a new level. They keep on claiming the economy will force Starmer to sell out over Brexit. But the UK's poor economy has actually done better than the EU's since Brexit was implemented. We have had higher growth and higher employment. And immigration controls have improved wages at the lower end of the income distribution.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Eabhal said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Just listened to a Labour spokesperson say Sunak is tinkering with this very serious problem and they will act vigorously on this, make what you will on that !!
    You'll be first up for the reopened slate mine at Blaenau Ffestiniog, desperately trying to get through to DWP before the minibus comes round to pick you up.
    What an insulting comment to someone who has worked from 16 to retirement at 65, honestly and a created a business which employed 15, none of whom ever complained and many of whom remain personal friends 40 years later
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,177

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    Martin Kettle had a good piece on this the other day:

    At present, Labour is keen to lock a future government’s relations with Europe in the pre-election long-stay car park. Starmer wants the forthcoming contest to be about Conservative economic failure, not about Brexit. Even Labour’s most passionate pro-Europeans have accepted that getting elected must come first. The party’s reluctance to air the European question too loudly before that is understandable. But this does not mean the question is going to go away in government...

    But Britain’s relationship with Europe cannot avoid being a key dynamic of any long-term national renewal project for Britain of the kind that Starmer promised to the Labour conference last year. Repair with Europe cannot be dodged indefinitely, whether in the context of domestic politics, international security or the economy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/18/keir-starmer-europe-economy-labour-eu

    Ahead of the election it's understandable that Labour don't want to let the Tories and Reform - and their media overlords - to start wittering on about how Brexit is in peril. They can't be allowed to get the old band back together.

    I did read somewhere else that 80% of the Labour membership want to rejoin. If they get a stonking majority that 80% won't be quiet. Especially as Leavers die off in ever greater numbers and are replaced by pro-EU people under 60 and the electoral prize of full-throated pro-EUism becomes too big to ignore.

    The Tories, the Leavers, want to lock Brexit in. They want Brexit to be permanent. And perhaps they will succeed. Kettle concedes that might well be the case. But where I think Kettle is right is that reality will push us back closer to the EU. The Leavers got high on their own supply and gave us an immensely damaging, rupturing, Brexit - a version of Brexit that if Cameron had had the sense to be properly defined ahead of the referendum would never have won.

    Business hates Brexit, everyone under 60 pretty much hates Brexit. We will become much closer to Europe and we will achieve BRINO. And as livid as I still am for what Brexit, and the liars who delivered it, have robbed me of, a return of sanity and closer relations and, hopefully, a return of at least some of the privileges my EU citizenship entitled me to, will help. A bit.

    I'm 46 and I knew several people - normal people, not upper-middle class people - who benefitted from Erasmus. An ex-girlfriend of mine spent a year in Aix-en-Provece and Valencia as part of her study. Now, obviously, the Leavers want these uppity working class kids to properly know their station in life and become plumbers or charwomen. But young people won't settle for not having what their parents had. And if young people get freedom of movement, well then their parents and people of my age who had it, will want it returned.
    We are still sending exchange students form our course and I am currently hosting a lovely Danish student. Erasmus was not the be all and end all of student exchange. I don't know all the details but I believe the EU tried to make the UK pay a much higher rate to take part and were told to bog-off.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    I don't blame them, but are your youngsters quite typical? This polling was from Peston and pretty convincing:


    Sleazy Lib Dems on the slide. Wid da yoof.
    The last one was a Lib Dem outlier. One of the fascinating features of LD voting intention is it's almost completely flat across all the generations. Being a Lib Dem is a lifetime's commitment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    Sunak working as a political commentator, yet again...


    Torsten Bell
    @TorstenBell
    Okay - the big domestic news today isn't the fluff around sick notes. It's @RishiSunak going ahead with a consultation promising big reform of Personal Independence Payments (non-means tested disability benefit for people in or out of work)

    Torsten Bell
    @TorstenBell
    ·
    1h
    But looking at what's been said this morning, this is a problem statement not a plan for doing something about it

    https://twitter.com/TorstenBell/status/1781261754896437363
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    @KevinASchofield

    Finally, some good news for Humza Yousaf.

    @kacnutt

    New: Members of the Scottish Greens are demanding an emergency meeting to end the Bute House Agreement with the SNP
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
    An often misunderstood phrase

    The May in this saying is the May tree, the hawthorn. Cf "the bloom is on the blackthorn but not yet on the May"

    So what it is saying is you can't expect reliably warm weather until the hawthorn has blossomed, usually early-mid May

    It doesn't mention 18 months of fucking freezing monsoons
    New normal.

    You could ask Claude to pen new traditional doggerel more appropriate to our climate.
    "The rain is on the pavement, and now it's on the pavement again"

    "Ne'er cast a brolly. Ever."

    "The rain is in the house and now it's drowned the mouse"

    "Who needs a fucking swimming pool, just take a walk"
    When sky is grey, the dreary weather's here to stay
    When sky is blue, a sleety shower's just passed through
    When sky is white, the weather's probably staying shite
    When sky is red, Russia just nuked us and everyone's dead
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm driven to ask why on earth would Iran call it quits. They have already pre-vowed to retaliate if Israel retaliated to their retaliation.

    I imagine the back channels are buzzing as we speak.

    My guess on why Iran would call it quits is that nothing major, no big civilian centres and nothing high profile were destroyed so Iranian top people can go on tv and laugh “those pathetic Israelis cannot destroy mighty Iran - look at this pathetic attempt. Like a flea on a camel. Please forget our very unsuccessful huge strike.”

    Iran also know that the Israelis just showed what they can do so far inland in Iran, near sensitive nuclear sites, in a very limited attack and so “next time” it could be a lot worse.

    So honour restored and the phoney war can continue through proxies.
    I was thinking much the same.
    Israel has won these exchanges, Iran will downplay everything for domestic audience but in reality they've been humiliated.

    Unfortunately, as Leon alludes, it now gives Israel a free hand to destroy Gaza. No one is now coming to their rescue.
    Netanyahu has managed to strengthen his position in the short term. He'll be pleased. But it's a win for him not for Israel. Israel's interests would be best served by ceasefire, de-escalation and diplomacy.

    Same thing with Russia, a disconnect between the interests of the warmongering country and those of its political leadership. Inflicting carnage on Ukraine has nothing at all to do with improving the lot of the Russian people.
    One of the weirder things is Israel's insistence on not confirming that they're involved in any of the numerous extraterritorial actions that they have in fact taken.

    Week preceding: (loudly) We're gonna fuck those mullahs good!!

    Today: we can neither confirm or deny..

    Must be frustrating for an enthusiastic willy waver like Netanyahu.
    He's still managing to wave plenty of it though. You'd have thought America would have more influence over its so-called client state, wouldn't you. Seems quite a one way relationship atm. What's worrying is the US political angle. Like all the world's worst people Netanyahu wants Trump back. So this gives him further leverage against Biden.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP deadenders lose the key procedural vote. The House will get to decide on Ukraine aid.

    HOUSE LATEST

    • Rules Committee voted 9-3 to adopt the rule for the aid package (Massie/Roy/Norman voted NO, Ds voted yes)

    • House floor vote expected at ~10:30a today on the rule. Details: https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/Rule HR8034HR8035HR8036HR8038.pdf

    • Then ~1:00-1:30p votes tomorrow on passage of all 4 bills.

    https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1781286710946533690

    The pro-Putin wing of the Republican Party is looking quite isolated.
    Feels like they're going to adhere to the Winston Churchill quip about the Americans and doing the right thing.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    I don't think it's that we assume he's lying, it's just that compared to ejecting this useless and utterly malign shower of shit from government we really don't care about anything else.
    The EU stuff will happen at some point because it's the will of the people and it's only going in one direction. I'm very relaxed about the timeline, personally. No rush.
    So Labour and the Europhile left are lying to the public to sneak in European integration by the back door. Just like they did over the Lisbon Treaty. Just like they tried to do after the referendum. They don't have a democratic bone in their bodies.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    Martin Kettle had a good piece on this the other day:

    At present, Labour is keen to lock a future government’s relations with Europe in the pre-election long-stay car park. Starmer wants the forthcoming contest to be about Conservative economic failure, not about Brexit. Even Labour’s most passionate pro-Europeans have accepted that getting elected must come first. The party’s reluctance to air the European question too loudly before that is understandable. But this does not mean the question is going to go away in government...

    But Britain’s relationship with Europe cannot avoid being a key dynamic of any long-term national renewal project for Britain of the kind that Starmer promised to the Labour conference last year. Repair with Europe cannot be dodged indefinitely, whether in the context of domestic politics, international security or the economy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/18/keir-starmer-europe-economy-labour-eu

    Ahead of the election it's understandable that Labour don't want to let the Tories and Reform - and their media overlords - to start wittering on about how Brexit is in peril. They can't be allowed to get the old band back together.

    I did read somewhere else that 80% of the Labour membership want to rejoin. If they get a stonking majority that 80% won't be quiet. Especially as Leavers die off in ever greater numbers and are replaced by pro-EU people under 60 and the electoral prize of full-throated pro-EUism becomes too big to ignore.

    The Tories, the Leavers, want to lock Brexit in. They want Brexit to be permanent. And perhaps they will succeed. Kettle concedes that might well be the case. But where I think Kettle is right is that reality will push us back closer to the EU. The Leavers got high on their own supply and gave us an immensely damaging, rupturing, Brexit - a version of Brexit that if Cameron had had the sense to be properly defined ahead of the referendum would never have won.

    Business hates Brexit, everyone under 60 pretty much hates Brexit. We will become much closer to Europe and we will achieve BRINO. And as livid as I still am for what Brexit, and the liars who delivered it, have robbed me of, a return of sanity and closer relations and, hopefully, a return of at least some of the privileges my EU citizenship entitled me to, will help. A bit.

    I'm 46 and I knew several people - normal people, not upper-middle class people - who benefitted from Erasmus. An ex-girlfriend of mine spent a year in Aix-en-Provece and Valencia as part of her study. Now, obviously, the Leavers want these uppity working class kids to properly know their station in life and become plumbers or charwomen. But young people won't settle for not having what their parents had. And if young people get freedom of movement, well then their parents and people of my age who had it, will want it returned.
    We are still sending exchange students form our course and I am currently hosting a lovely Danish student. Erasmus was not the be all and end all of student exchange. I don't know all the details but I believe the EU tried to make the UK pay a much higher rate to take part and were told to bog-off.
    My granddaughter with 4 fellow students, have been at Turin University since September and return to Leeds University next September
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    The latest from the Labour Party:

    image

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/1781285090032509415
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    nico679 said:

    When Tory politicians mention a moral mission you know it’s going to be anything but.

    Sunak really is a vile disgusting odious twat . Horrible little man.

    I really think I am developing Sunak Derangement Syndrome.

    Every time he opens his mouth nowadays my blood starts to boil.


    Same.

    I avoid the News at the moment and often regret coming on pb as a result (too many men talking about war for me).

    But I mainly avoid News right now because of the hatred being stirred up by the tories on almost every topic they can poison.

    It will take years, possibly decades, to repair the damage they have done to this country: their legitimisation of hatred.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,363

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    I’m amazed there isn’t more anger or at least fuss about Labour’s rebuff to the EU
    Martin Kettle had a good piece on this the other day:

    At present, Labour is keen to lock a future government’s relations with Europe in the pre-election long-stay car park. Starmer wants the forthcoming contest to be about Conservative economic failure, not about Brexit. Even Labour’s most passionate pro-Europeans have accepted that getting elected must come first. The party’s reluctance to air the European question too loudly before that is understandable. But this does not mean the question is going to go away in government...

    But Britain’s relationship with Europe cannot avoid being a key dynamic of any long-term national renewal project for Britain of the kind that Starmer promised to the Labour conference last year. Repair with Europe cannot be dodged indefinitely, whether in the context of domestic politics, international security or the economy.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/18/keir-starmer-europe-economy-labour-eu

    Ahead of the election it's understandable that Labour don't want to let the Tories and Reform - and their media overlords - to start wittering on about how Brexit is in peril. They can't be allowed to get the old band back together.

    I did read somewhere else that 80% of the Labour membership want to rejoin. If they get a stonking majority that 80% won't be quiet. Especially as Leavers die off in ever greater numbers and are replaced by pro-EU people under 60 and the electoral prize of full-throated pro-EUism becomes too big to ignore.

    The Tories, the Leavers, want to lock Brexit in. They want Brexit to be permanent. And perhaps they will succeed. Kettle concedes that might well be the case. But where I think Kettle is right is that reality will push us back closer to the EU. The Leavers got high on their own supply and gave us an immensely damaging, rupturing, Brexit - a version of Brexit that if Cameron had had the sense to be properly defined ahead of the referendum would never have won.

    Business hates Brexit, everyone under 60 pretty much hates Brexit. We will become much closer to Europe and we will achieve BRINO. And as livid as I still am for what Brexit, and the liars who delivered it, have robbed me of, a return of sanity and closer relations and, hopefully, a return of at least some of the privileges my EU citizenship entitled me to, will help. A bit.

    I'm 46 and I knew several people - normal people, not upper-middle class people - who benefitted from Erasmus. An ex-girlfriend of mine spent a year in Aix-en-Provece and Valencia as part of her study. Now, obviously, the Leavers want these uppity working class kids to properly know their station in life and become plumbers or charwomen. But young people won't settle for not having what their parents had. And if young people get freedom of movement, well then their parents and people of my age who had it, will want it returned.
    We are still sending exchange students form our course and I am currently hosting a lovely Danish student. Erasmus was not the be all and end all of student exchange. I don't know all the details but I believe the EU tried to make the UK pay a much higher rate to take part and were told to bog-off.
    Erasmus wasn't the be all and end all, but it made it possible for kids from poor families to spend a year studying abroad under the same conditions as the native students. This included having your own student accommodation rather than having to be put up by some obliging family.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609
    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    The ONLY time in my entire life I have ended up voting for the winning MP in a seat was in 2005 when we lived in Selby. FPTP, eh!
    I've never voted for the winning MP.
    It's a problem if you vote LD :wink:

    (I did actually once successfully elect a Lib Dem MP, in Cardiff Central in 2005)
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Sean_F said:

    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    The GOP deadenders lose the key procedural vote. The House will get to decide on Ukraine aid.

    HOUSE LATEST

    • Rules Committee voted 9-3 to adopt the rule for the aid package (Massie/Roy/Norman voted NO, Ds voted yes)

    • House floor vote expected at ~10:30a today on the rule. Details: https://rules.house.gov/sites/republicans.rules118.house.gov/files/Rule HR8034HR8035HR8036HR8038.pdf

    • Then ~1:00-1:30p votes tomorrow on passage of all 4 bills.

    https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1781286710946533690

    The pro-Putin wing of the Republican Party is looking quite isolated.
    Feels like they're going to adhere to the Winston Churchill quip about the Americans and doing the right thing.
    It's the best news for a long time. They should have done it months ago, but better late than never.
    Would have been tragic if the Americans had abandoned the Ukrainians the way they abandoned the Kurds under Trump.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    The ONLY time in my entire life I have ended up voting for the winning MP in a seat was in 2005 when we lived in Selby. FPTP, eh!
    I've never voted for the winning MP.
    (Me neither.)
    Nope, not even close. OTOH I have a 3/3 on referendums :smile:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
    An often misunderstood phrase

    The May in this saying is the May tree, the hawthorn. Cf "the bloom is on the blackthorn but not yet on the May"

    So what it is saying is you can't expect reliably warm weather until the hawthorn has blossomed, usually early-mid May

    It doesn't mention 18 months of fucking freezing monsoons
    New normal.

    You could ask Claude to pen new traditional doggerel more appropriate to our climate.
    "The rain is on the pavement, and now it's on the pavement again"

    "Ne'er cast a brolly. Ever."

    "The rain is in the house and now it's drowned the mouse"

    "Who needs a fucking swimming pool, just take a walk"
    When sky is grey, the dreary weather's here to stay
    When sky is blue, a sleety shower's just passed through
    When sky is white, the weather's probably staying shite
    When sky is red, Russia just nuked us and everyone's dead
    Lol. Much better than mine. And all too true
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    Context is everything.
    Well I haven't seen the entire article as it is paywalled. Neither have you, I suspect.
    Entire article:
    https://archive.ph/iFzFe
    Good for middle aged loaded old lads mag. Unsuitable for a politics, culture and current affairs magazine. Its not exactly rocket science.
    The Spectator has ALWAYS been like this. It mixes the high and the low, the sordid and the cerebral, the arts and the heart. And it seeks to surprise as all good magazines should


    I very much doubt you subscribe, or ever will, and as it’s paywalled that means you never read it, so why on earth should they care what you think?
    And I don't care if they care or not, its very much up to them. Just commenting on here as the topic du jour.
    My point is you are acting as if this is some sordid new departure for the Spectator. It really isn’t. I’m old enough to remember when they ran a piece about a guy “wanking himself into hospital” which became mildly celebrated and got quoted in the US Congress and cited in famous books of psychology. So none of this is new
    I doubt it shall survive contact with the generation or two below you, it shall have to choose one or the other.
    You could be right. It’s not looking good. Here’s their 200 years of sales in a graph



    Yes its popular with the posher end of the lads mag readership of the 90s. How did those fare with Gen Z?
    I think it's wrong to attribute this to boomers. It's the old forgotten Gen X again, ignored in the Boomer-Millennial culture wars. Gen X, people from about 45 to 60 now.

    My impression is this is the most hedonistic, don't give a shit of all the generations. The late 90s and early noughties when GenX were young were the peak of lad mags but also the celebration of binge drinking and drug taking, popular culture that didn't take itself too seriously, and apolitical comedy from The Office to the Fast Show to Reeves and Mortimer. And the nadir (in the sense of they didn't exist) of the culture wars. Toxic in many ways in both a literal and figurative sense, but also good fun.

    I miss all that. I know parts of it were bad and not to be repeated, but I'm a creature of that era and it's hard not to be nostalgic for it.
    They're enjoyable to discuss but tbh I'm not sure how meaningful these "Gens" are. Most of how the world changes happens gradually and continuously rather than by "decade" or by "generation".
    Dunno, my brother is just in tail end of gen X (I'm early millennial) and we're chalk and cheese. I'm measured, sensible, avocado on toast kind of guy (until I discovered the environmental impact of avocado and decided to buy a house instead). He's a walking celebration of binge drinking and drug taking, popular culture that didn't take itself too seriously etc. At least, he's a Chartered Accountant, so I assume it follows that all that is true? :wink:
    Binge drinking and Chartered Accountancy do go together, yes. I can totally vouch for that.

    1960 so I'm a babyboomer, I think? Yet I'm nothing like Bill Clinton. So I don't know. I'm sceptical of most of this. Same as I am of national characteristics - a "brave" people, a "lazy" people, a "friendly" people, all of that sort of thing. It's mainly about oiling a certain sort of conversation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited April 19
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I'm trying really hard not to mention the weather, but sweet fucking Jesus

    It is late April and it is 11C and the cold cold rain is SHEETING DOWN. My god

    And this is after the wettest 18 months in our history. WTF is going on?

    Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.
    An often misunderstood phrase

    The May in this saying is the May tree, the hawthorn. Cf "the bloom is on the blackthorn but not yet on the May"

    So what it is saying is you can't expect reliably warm weather until the hawthorn has blossomed, usually early-mid May

    It doesn't mention 18 months of fucking freezing monsoons
    New normal.

    You could ask Claude to pen new traditional doggerel more appropriate to our climate.
    "The rain is on the pavement, and now it's on the pavement again"

    "Ne'er cast a brolly. Ever."

    "The rain is in the house and now it's drowned the mouse"

    "Who needs a fucking swimming pool, just take a walk"
    'Tis a folly, to leave your brolly.

    Rain in Spring is the thing
    In Summer, Autumn, Winter, continuing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    The latest from the Labour Party:

    image

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/1781285090032509415

    Ah yes, the "magic brownfield" solution.

    The issue is really that a confluence of interests slows the rate of building down. Which is how the local politicians like it - because they would get voted out, if they voted to allow building to increase.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,679
    DavidL said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    The amount of lies the media is pushing here is at a new level. They keep on claiming the economy will force Starmer to sell out over Brexit. But the UK's poor economy has actually done better than the EU's since Brexit was implemented. We have had higher growth and higher employment. And immigration controls have improved wages at the lower end of the income distribution.
    From the ONS main points in February (the latest available)

    "The total goods and services trade deficit narrowed by £2.0 billion to a deficit of £9.9 billion in the three months to February 2024, and has been steadily improving since Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2022."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/February2024

    But our media will simply not allow the actual story of the actual numbers to be told. Because it would show that they were wrong.
    But we have had an unprecedented decline in GDP per capita. Yes we might have grown faster than Germany or whatever but we had 1.4m immigrants in 2 years. Anyone can get growth out of that

    What matters is GDP per capita. And it’s been falling. We are getting poorer
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    edited April 19
    DavidL said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    The amount of lies the media is pushing here is at a new level. They keep on claiming the economy will force Starmer to sell out over Brexit. But the UK's poor economy has actually done better than the EU's since Brexit was implemented. We have had higher growth and higher employment. And immigration controls have improved wages at the lower end of the income distribution.
    From the ONS main points in February (the latest available)

    "The total goods and services trade deficit narrowed by £2.0 billion to a deficit of £9.9 billion in the three months to February 2024, and has been steadily improving since Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2022."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/February2024

    But our media will simply not allow the actual story of the actual numbers to be told. Because it would show that they were wrong.
    Barring WWIII, I expect that growth will be pretty brisk between now and the end of the decade. The 2020-23 period was a one-off period of shocks, and business investment has been growing rapidly over the past three years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Given their ongoing development of a next generation fighter, this will be quite useful for them.

    S. Korea to build F-35 maintenance facility at Cheongju Air Base

    https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20240418050200
    ..in December, the Defense Acquisition Program Administration signed a letter of acceptance with the US government to procure an additional 20 jets, scheduled for delivery beginning in 2027.

    DAPA said the second phase of the F-35A procurement deal includes provisions for South Korea to establish its own facility for heavy airframe maintenance, repairs, overhauls and upgrades, as well as stealth coating.

    "(The facility) will eliminate the need for long-term overseas maintenance, thereby reducing aircraft downtime, as well as operational and maintenance costs," DAPA vice spokesperson You Hyoung-keun said during a regular press briefing.

    "We plan to have the maintenance capabilities by the end of 2027," You added.

    South Korea will be the third country in the Asia-Pacific to have an F-35 maintenance facility, following Australia and Japan.

    The US has permitted South Korea to conduct minor maintenance on the F-35As due to security concerns, while major maintenance has been delegated to a regional repair base in Japan...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    Selebian said:

    TimS said:

    Selebian said:

    nico679 said:

    Foxy said:

    nico679 said:

    Sunak really is useless . And by allowing non GPS to issue sick notes we know how this ends . Targets in place of proper fact based decisions.

    Absolutely.

    The really depressing thing will likely be Starmer's response.
    I fear you’re right . And after last nights dreadful response to that very generous EU offer re 18 to 30 year olds I’m fast losing any enthusiasm for Labour .

    Thankfully I won’t have to think hard here in Eastbourne about how to vote at the GE . The Lib Dems should take this seat and can rely on my vote .
    Was at a dinner last night that included some PhD students, pre-doc research assistants and young post-docs among the older contingent of more established academics. The younger group were hugely unenthusiastic about Starmer on the whole and far from committed to voting at all/likely to vote Green. The older group were pretty committed in getting the government out, which meant Lab votes even without much enthusiasm - but if the younger group do go wasted vote minor party or not vote then the votes for Lab, if not the seats, could be underwhelming.

    There's a real and understandable enthusiasm gap out there. I will do my patriotic duty, but without much excitement and a Lib Dem party that actually enthused me could steal my vote in what could be - if there are any! - a reasonably tight Lab-Con seat*

    *will be the new Selby seat - the by-election winning Lab incumbent for the old seat seems fairly popular and he's been trying hard popping up in supermarkets etc and willing to listen to anyone, so I suspect he might actually hold quite easily given the national picture
    The ONLY time in my entire life I have ended up voting for the winning MP in a seat was in 2005 when we lived in Selby. FPTP, eh!
    I've never voted for the winning MP.
    It's a problem if you vote LD :wink:

    (I did actually once successfully elect a Lib Dem MP, in Cardiff Central in 2005)
    Worse than that. I only voted Labour in a GE once, in 1997. In a constituency that unbeknownst to the young naive me was a Lib Dem-Tory marginal.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,830
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Casino_Royale mate this book is right up your street you and the author/protagonist have a lot in common you should get yourself a copy off Amazon pronto.

    "And she saw a long Roman candle going up over the trees, up, up, and, in the tense hush, they were all breathless with excitement as it went higher and higher and she had to lean back more and more to look up after it, high, high, almost out of sight, and her face was suffused with a divine, an entrancing blush from straining back and he could see her other things too, nainsook knickers, the fabric that caresses the skin, better than those other pettiwidth, the green, four and eleven, on account of being white and she let him and she saw that he saw and then it went so high it went out of sight a moment and she was trembling in every limb from being bent so far back he had a full view high up above her knee no-one ever not even on the swing or wading and she wasn't ashamed and he wasn't either to look in that immodest way like that because he couldn't resist the sight of the wondrous revealment half offered like those skirtdancers behaving so immodest before gentlemen looking and he kept on looking, looking. She would fain have cried to him chokingly, held out her snowy slender arms to him to come, to feel his lips laid on her white brow the cry of a young girl's love, a little strangled cry, wrung from her, that cry that has rung through the ages. And then a rocket sprang and bang shot blind and O! then the Roman candle burst and it was like a sigh of O! and everyone cried O!O! in raptures and it gushed out of it a stream of rain gold hair threads and they shed and ah! they were all greeny dewy stars falling with golden, O so lively! O so soft, sweet, soft!"

    WTF is that?
    Don't you worry your pretty little head about it.

    But it is in fact an illustration a) of the failings of AI; and b) that the Speccie piece is nothing new, and that people have been outraged by the male view of the female for centuries.
    How can supposedly intelligent people on PB not recognise that excerpt? It’s like a reader survey of the site. Not very impressive

    Talking of AI - as you did - I had drinks with a photographer friend in Highgate last night. He’s very smart and quite tech literate but still clueless (like 99% of people) about how far A.I. has come

    So I sat with him at the pub table and got out my phone and summoned Claude 3 Opus. Then we both fed it a 90,000 word PDF of a novel - simply attached the file.

    Wow. I have honestly never seen intellectual shock exhibited so profoundly. Claude (of course) took the book, read it, devoured it, then spooled out a long detailed critique, right down to character arcs and specific plot weaknesses and chapters with poor dialogue. And all forensically accurate

    Claude did all this in 50 seconds. From start to finish. Did what an expert editor might do in days, after weeks of delay

    My friend was literally speechless. He sat there in silence. Finally he said “fuck”. Then: “this is going to change everything”

    So I’ve now learned what you have to do to get people to understand. You have to literally SHOW them. And then they respond like Amazonian Indians seeing their first plane
    Leon.

    When you feel the urge… step away. Let the baubles of sweat on your upper lip out, then wipe them clean. Splash yourself down.
    Don’t worry I’m off for oysters at Sheeks in a minute
    Which I happen to be passing, right now!
    Wanna buy me a drink Leon?


  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    The amount of lies the media is pushing here is at a new level. They keep on claiming the economy will force Starmer to sell out over Brexit. But the UK's poor economy has actually done better than the EU's since Brexit was implemented. We have had higher growth and higher employment. And immigration controls have improved wages at the lower end of the income distribution.
    From the ONS main points in February (the latest available)

    "The total goods and services trade deficit narrowed by £2.0 billion to a deficit of £9.9 billion in the three months to February 2024, and has been steadily improving since Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2022."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/February2024

    But our media will simply not allow the actual story of the actual numbers to be told. Because it would show that they were wrong.
    But we have had an unprecedented decline in GDP per capita. Yes we might have grown faster than Germany or whatever but we had 1.4m immigrants in 2 years. Anyone can get growth out of that

    What matters is GDP per capita. And it’s been falling. We are getting poorer
    It does matter, but I see no reason why (absent war, which is the big unknown), growth won't resume.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,687
    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    I don't think it's that we assume he's lying, it's just that compared to ejecting this useless and utterly malign shower of shit from government we really don't care about anything else.
    The EU stuff will happen at some point because it's the will of the people and it's only going in one direction. I'm very relaxed about the timeline, personally. No rush.
    So Labour and the Europhile left are lying to the public to sneak in European integration by the back door. Just like they did over the Lisbon Treaty. Just like they tried to do after the referendum. They don't have a democratic bone in their bodies.
    Wow well done for not reading anything I've actually said. I'm just saying I think the UK and EU relationship will reintegrate over time in a way that reflects public opinion. People don't like Brexit, and politicians will follow policies that reflect that because we are a democracy and that's what happens. I am not in a rush to force that process because I think it's inevitable - and if I am wrong and public opinion actually starts to embrace Brexit then I'm fine with that, I've no interest in fighting public opinion on this issue.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    The latest from the Labour Party:

    image

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/1781285090032509415

    Ah yes, the "magic brownfield" solution.

    The issue is really that a confluence of interests slows the rate of building down. Which is how the local politicians like it - because they would get voted out, if they voted to allow building to increase.
    There is just a little bit of a younger Yvette Cooper about her.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    DavidL said:

    WillG said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    A good thread by David Henig on Labour's position on EU negotiations. Both on mobility and more broadly.

    https://x.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1780895064266277223

    TLDR they're not going to be able to ignore the issue forever.

    Well, quite. I guess Remainers - which comprise the vast majority of Labour MPs, activists, and even voters - and many of them are REALLY REALLY Remainy - will tolerate lies and obfuscation from Starmer prior to the GE, in the assumption that he will change tack entirely once in government

    But if Starmer refuses a Free Movement for the Young offer when he is in office they will go postal. He will be in danger of losing his job. This matters to many people
    The amount of lies the media is pushing here is at a new level. They keep on claiming the economy will force Starmer to sell out over Brexit. But the UK's poor economy has actually done better than the EU's since Brexit was implemented. We have had higher growth and higher employment. And immigration controls have improved wages at the lower end of the income distribution.
    From the ONS main points in February (the latest available)

    "The total goods and services trade deficit narrowed by £2.0 billion to a deficit of £9.9 billion in the three months to February 2024, and has been steadily improving since Quarter 1 (Jan to Mar) 2022."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/February2024

    But our media will simply not allow the actual story of the actual numbers to be told. Because it would show that they were wrong.
    Useful recent report on our post Brexit trade stats here:

    https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/comment/britains-post-brexit-trade-patterns-are-finally-emerging-in-the-data/#:~:text=By the end of 2023, goods trade had shrunk to,than any other G7 country.

    Weak goods, strong services.
This discussion has been closed.