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Street’s ahead – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,128
edited May 12 in General
imageStreet’s ahead – politicalbetting.com

?NEW West Mids Mayoral Voting Intention for @TheNewsAgents ?Narrow 2pt Andy Street lead?Con 40 (-9)?Lab 38 (-2)??Reform 7 (+5)?LD 6 (+2)?Green 5 (-1)??Independent 5 (NEW)1,018 in WMCA, 11-17 April(chg vs 2021 result (1st prefs)) pic.twitter.com/XLhyTCYMId

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Second, like Street.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Hello world.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,797
    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    In the absence of other information, the logical thing is to average the two polls. On that basis, Street loses.

    (Certainly, the headlines around Menzies and Nunn won’t be helping.)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    I understand why he has done it. He appears to be respectable. Modern. Decent. Competent. Everything the Tory party are not.

    Contrast with that lying tosser the Lord Houchen of Teesport. Who also tried to distance himself from the party despite being at the leading edge of its grifting efforts...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited April 19

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on freedom, set as Communist Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    He will have "Conservative and Unionist Party" next to his name on the ballot paper. So he's not using "Local Conservative" like some of the local election candidates for the party.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    The most annoying thing about Street is his crap filling up my Linkedin feed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    I understand why he has done it. He appears to be respectable. Modern. Decent. Competent. Everything the Tory party are not.

    Contrast with that lying tosser the Lord Houchen of Teesport. Who also tried to distance himself from the party despite being at the leading edge of its grifting efforts...
    There are numbers of politicians who detach themselves from their parties when not convenient.

    Not sure that Street is a particularly notable version of this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    The Labour candidate is similarly hampered by Birmingham council's fairly dismal performance.

    Service cuts and tax rises - which are not entirely down to government policies.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    This another Leon persona ?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    This poll appears much more in tune with what is going on on the ground here in the West Midlands. In particular there is a significant vote for the Galloway candidate amongst the Muslim community which is hurting Labour.

    Well if Street wins in some pretty exceptional circumstances, at least it'll be enough to keep the Conservatives' trump card Rishi Sunak in place for the general election.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    A Russian Tu-22M3 bomber crashed last night. The Ukrainians are claiming to have hit it with S-200 air defence missiles, 300km from the border. Russia say it had technical problems.

    I think it's the first Tu-22 that's been lost in the war that wasn't destroyed on the ground.

    I think there's reason to hope that the Russian air force will go the same way as the Russian navy this year.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    This is not meant to be a loaded question, but are you suggesting it is merely following the maxim that all publicity is good publicity?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    edited April 19

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    Is it reflective of their general content?

    Regardless, is it commercially successful? If so, then there's your answer how they came to dominate.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    This is not meant to be a loaded question, but are you suggesting it is merely following the maxim that all publicity is good publicity?
    That feels like a rather loaded question
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    This is not meant to be a loaded question, but are you suggesting it is merely following the maxim that all publicity is good publicity?
    That feels like a rather loaded question
    A loaded question would be more like "Why hotel room sex is the best".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Another indication that Ukraine is desperately short of weapons.

    It’s remarkable that Russian Su-25 jets can operate so frequently and seemingly uncontested over western Bakhmut, Ivanivske, Khromove and the open fields between those and Chasiv Yar, especially when Chasiv Yar’s elevation is higher and these jets would be in clear sight of Ukrainian air defenses — if they had any stingers etc there to use. They are flying within 1.5-2 miles of Chasiv Yar’s eastern district...
    https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1781189653002858968
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Israel has attacked Iran. News is coming fast these days.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,302
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    So the Peter Murrell argument.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    It's just over sharing.

    Jon Snow said something similar but he gets away with it because he's liberal left-wing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    On the mid east developments, if that really is IT from Israel (quite limited strikes on iran, enough to disappoint @BartholomewRoberts) and if that really is IT from Iran (no retaliation at all, despite all their bluster) then we can all breathe a major sigh of relief. We were on the brink of something much much worse, it looks like America/the West, have possibly choreographed some military pantomime instead

    Praise be, if that is the case. Tho the Gazans might feel differently
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    Leon said:

    On the mid east developments, if that really is IT from Israel (quite limited strikes on iran, enough to disappoint @BartholomewRoberts) and if that really is IT from Iran (no retaliation at all, despite all their bluster) then we can all breathe a major sigh of relief. We were on the brink of something much much worse, it looks like America/the West, have possibly choreographed some military pantomime instead

    Praise be, if that is the case. Tho the Gazans might feel differently

    Phew, some were predicting the end of the world overnight. How wrong can they get?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    Do you think the other Spectator writers are envious of this article, and regretting having held themselves back in their previous submissions?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?

    If Andy Street gets anywhere near to winning it would be a personal triumph. The West Midlands should be Labour Central at a time like this. Urban, and with lots of Labour strongholds. Just look at the parliamentary representation for Birmingham and Coventry for instance.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    On the same WM poll that is putting Street 2% ahead, in the GE polling om the same poll by Savanta Labour is still 25% ahead. That is based on responses from exactly the same people sampled in the West Midlands and is still a 12% swing since the GE:
    Lab 50
    Con 25
    LD 9
    Ref 10
    Green 4
    Other 1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    That this rag will publish any old clickbait is hardly breaking news.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    Do you think the other Spectator writers are envious of this article, and regretting having held themselves back in their previous submissions?
    Top marks for the double entendre there.
  • I want to see the current iteration of the Conservative Party beaten to the brink (maybe over the brink) of extinction, but I would not be sorry to see Andy Street survive. He was the guest speaker at a couple of events I organised back in the day and I found him thoughtful, rigorous, and willing to consider all sides of the argument.

    Basically, the complete opposite of the modern-day Conservative Party.

    My only criticism of him would be backing down over his opposition to HS2 being scrapped but I guess he felt his city was still getting most of what it needed.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    I'm driven to ask why on earth would Iran call it quits. They have already pre-vowed to retaliate if Israel retaliated to their retaliation.

    I imagine the back channels are buzzing as we speak.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    On the mid east developments, if that really is IT from Israel (quite limited strikes on iran, enough to disappoint @BartholomewRoberts) and if that really is IT from Iran (no retaliation at all, despite all their bluster) then we can all breathe a major sigh of relief. We were on the brink of something much much worse, it looks like America/the West, have possibly choreographed some military pantomime instead

    Praise be, if that is the case. Tho the Gazans might feel differently

    Phew, some were predicting the end of the world overnight. How wrong can they get?
    It’s a bit early to call it either way, TBH
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    Yes, an excellent summary.

    She has a recent podcast series on the subject too.

    https://twitter.com/PPFIdeas/status/1780838673195684302?t=arTxKhNq8EMQRAZVVVfeoA&s=19
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Great tip. Thanks @TSE

    I’m not sure he will get it but at those odds this is real value. Pb at its best!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?

    If Andy Street gets anywhere near to winning it would be a personal triumph. The West Midlands should be Labour Central at a time like this. Urban, and with lots of Labour strongholds. Just look at the parliamentary representation for Birmingham and Coventry for instance.
    Yes, but this is a local (OK, regional) election, and Labour's reputation in local government there is pretty awful.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706

    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?

    If Andy Street gets anywhere near to winning it would be a personal triumph. The West Midlands should be Labour Central at a time like this. Urban, and with lots of Labour strongholds. Just look at the parliamentary representation for Birmingham and Coventry for instance.
    And, as has been said before, if he loses the Tories need to find him a winnable seat PDQ. There is so little talent left in the party that they must properly utilise what they have.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Leon said:

    On the mid east developments, if that really is IT from Israel (quite limited strikes on iran, enough to disappoint @BartholomewRoberts) and if that really is IT from Iran (no retaliation at all, despite all their bluster) then we can all breathe a major sigh of relief. We were on the brink of something much much worse, it looks like America/the West, have possibly choreographed some military pantomime instead

    Praise be, if that is the case. Tho the Gazans might feel differently

    Phew, some were predicting the end of the world overnight. How wrong can they get?
    Start worrying when Leon unbraces.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    DavidL said:

    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?

    If Andy Street gets anywhere near to winning it would be a personal triumph. The West Midlands should be Labour Central at a time like this. Urban, and with lots of Labour strongholds. Just look at the parliamentary representation for Birmingham and Coventry for instance.
    And, as has been said before, if he loses the Tories need to find him a winnable seat PDQ. There is so little talent left in the party that they must properly utilise what they have.
    Winnable seat for the Tories? An interesting challenge.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    On the same WM poll that is putting Street 2% ahead, in the GE polling om the same poll by Savanta Labour is still 25% ahead. That is based on responses from exactly the same people sampled in the West Midlands and is still a 12% swing since the GE:
    Lab 50
    Con 25
    LD 9
    Ref 10
    Green 4
    Other 1

    Weirdly I had a dream last night that the GE swing was 12% to Labour. Although later 9% cropped up. Then I awoke worrying if that was sufficient.

    I know. I know.

    Meanwhile, this is a great spot. Showing a remarkable disconnection between the national voting intention and a particular local vote.

    There is value to be had seeking out this and other places where, for local reasons, a tory may outpoll the otherwise dire national picture.

    And, of course, afterwards the tories will seize on such moments (including I’m afraid to say Big John owls) and completely miss the point.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 19

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    This is not meant to be a loaded question, but are you suggesting it is merely following the maxim that all publicity is good publicity?
    Ceteris paribus, advertisers and sellers of space don't give the sheerest toss whether you like the "content" that's written near it, or whether you loathe it. Whatever makes you click.

    Too rapt attention to the content is probably bad, though, although not necessarily if the important stuff works more subliminally rather than less.

    Then factor in that the "content" is probably pushing some shit or other too, not necessarily a specific brand but they want people to continue to borrow money, buy cars, buy alcohol and smartphones, etc., and nobody will get far in "journalism" if they say all that stuff is a load of wank, i.e. if they call a spade a spade.

    That's how the media works, sonny.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    I understand why he has done it. He appears to be respectable. Modern. Decent. Competent. Everything the Tory party are not.

    Contrast with that lying tosser the Lord Houchen of Teesport. Who also tried to distance himself from the party despite being at the leading edge of its grifting efforts...
    He appears to be making a conscious decision to try to appear to be non-tribal, pragmatic, whatever's-best-for-the-west-mids. Burnham is doing the same in GM - sometimes he can't help himself but slip back into tribalism, but mostly he stays above it. Coppard in SY and Brabin in WY are the same. I think it's a positive development in politics.
    Obviously Steve Rotherham on Merseyside remains a massive whingeing bellend.
  • Smart51Smart51 Posts: 61

    The most annoying thing about Street is this attempt to detach himself from the party he represents.

    Suck it up buttercup. Own it.

    At least it isn't new. He was a semi-detatched Tory from day 1.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    That, though, is partly down to the "shock therapy" economic advice given to the states which emerged from communist domination after the fall of the Soviet Union.

    History might have been very different had people like Jeffrey Sachs had a bit less hubris.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994

    Andy Street only just won by a whisker in May 2017, when the Tories were scoring well over 40% in national opinion polling, so I doubt it.

    Edit: similar applied in May 2021 for Street's re-election, with a positive swing in his favour, but the Tories were still doing v. well nationally.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    Is it reflective of their general content?

    Regardless, is it commercially successful? If so, then there's your answer how they came to dominate.
    The Spectator is remarkably commercially successful, despite (because of?) its ancient and noble lineage. In a world of declining newspaper sales I believe it has tripled or even quadrupled its readership in a couple of decades

    Hence the competition to buy it. I believe Uncle Rupert sees it as the final jewel in his crown. He’s desperate to purchase it as the last move of his long career
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,412
    TOPPING said:

    I'm driven to ask why on earth would Iran call it quits. They have already pre-vowed to retaliate if Israel retaliated to their retaliation.

    I imagine the back channels are buzzing as we speak.

    My guess on why Iran would call it quits is that nothing major, no big civilian centres and nothing high profile were destroyed so Iranian top people can go on tv and laugh “those pathetic Israelis cannot destroy mighty Iran - look at this pathetic attempt. Like a flea on a camel. Please forget our very unsuccessful huge strike.”

    Iran also know that the Israelis just showed what they can do so far inland in Iran, near sensitive nuclear sites, in a very limited attack and so “next time” it could be a lot worse.

    So honour restored and the phoney war can continue through proxies.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    This addendum to a column by Owen Jones is quite something.





    https://x.com/oliverkamm/status/1781209617537610071?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    TOPPING said:

    I'm driven to ask why on earth would Iran call it quits. They have already pre-vowed to retaliate if Israel retaliated to their retaliation.

    I imagine the back channels are buzzing as we speak.

    Because they're not ready for all out war (neither are we). And maybe don't want it at all (neither do we if we have any sense).

    So far they're pretending it wasn't even significant enough to be called an attack.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    I want to see the current iteration of the Conservative Party beaten to the brink (maybe over the brink) of extinction, but I would not be sorry to see Andy Street survive. He was the guest speaker at a couple of events I organised back in the day and I found him thoughtful, rigorous, and willing to consider all sides of the argument.

    Basically, the complete opposite of the modern-day Conservative Party.

    My only criticism of him would be backing down over his opposition to HS2 being scrapped but I guess he felt his city was still getting most of what it needed.

    Have you seen his involvement with the Birmingham-Manchester consortium? It's basically an attempt to reintroduce HS2 by another name, only more cost-effective. So not really backing down.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    boulay said:

    TOPPING said:

    I'm driven to ask why on earth would Iran call it quits. They have already pre-vowed to retaliate if Israel retaliated to their retaliation.

    I imagine the back channels are buzzing as we speak.

    My guess on why Iran would call it quits is that nothing major, no big civilian centres and nothing high profile were destroyed so Iranian top people can go on tv and laugh “those pathetic Israelis cannot destroy mighty Iran - look at this pathetic attempt. Like a flea on a camel. Please forget our very unsuccessful huge strike.”

    Iran also know that the Israelis just showed what they can do so far inland in Iran, near sensitive nuclear sites, in a very limited attack and so “next time” it could be a lot worse.

    So honour restored and the phoney war can continue through proxies.
    I mean that is almost word for word why they said Israel wouldn't respond.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    I think the piece is rude and ill-judged, and it's the sort of thing that creates a climate that intimidates women and dissuades them from playing an active role in public life.

    But Britain is a free country, and people are allowed to be rude and stupid, and unless it was to develop into a campaign of harassment, where this writer followed the academic around the country, then I think social disapproval is the limit of a legitimate response.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited April 19
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited April 19
    isam said:

    This addendum to a column by Owen Jones is quite something.





    https://x.com/oliverkamm/status/1781209617537610071?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    tim reposted on his twitter the guy who first noticed it, Oz Katerji.

    Jones's first article said that "The Defence Select Committee concluded..." and now as you show it has been amended to what actually happened which is that "Greenpeace's evidence to the defence select committee concluded..."

    And Jones is blaming the error on a trip to the dentist making him groggy.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    I'd take issue withthe suggestion that communism engenders responsibility towards others and towards society. I would argue it does the opppsite.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    I'd take issue withthe suggestion that communism engenders responsibility towards others and towards society. I would argue it does the opppsite.
    Her book is hardly a eulogy to Communism! She doesn't shrink from the hardships, police state, torture and imprisonment of many of her family.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    I think the piece is rude and ill-judged, and it's the sort of thing that creates a climate that intimidates women and dissuades them from playing an active role in public life.

    But Britain is a free country, and people are allowed to be rude and stupid, and unless it was to develop into a campaign of harassment, where this writer followed the academic around the country, then I think social disapproval is the limit of a legitimate response.
    It's not really on brand for the current iteration of the Spectator, which is the magazine for rich people which does their thinking for them.
    Too much blatant pervery devalues that.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    I'd take issue withthe suggestion that communism engenders responsibility towards others and towards society. I would argue it does the opppsite.
    Her book is hardly a eulogy to Communism! She doesn't shrink from the hardships, police state, torture and imprisonment of many of her family.
    Well yes, fair enough - it was just the theory set out above I was quibbling with.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    I'd take issue with the suggestion that communism engenders responsibility towards others and towards society. I would argue it does the opppsite.
    Communism may be bad at making a good society, but maybe shock therapy capitalism is even worse? The first is a bad way of creating it, the second can deny it even exists.

    Centrist Dadism (whether that's social democracy or one nation conservatism) for the win.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited April 19
    Good morning everyone.

    I'm having an off topic day, with a nod to Street Life later.

    Interesting short video about the history of the factory roof test track at FIAT in Turin, and what it has become.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=holD8Gmgkgc

    Another bit of road that needs to be dedicated to walking and cycling, like the back road along Thirlmere (there: horse riders too) where Cumberland Council were trying to be patsies for the water company who have a legal obligation to maintain it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    I think the piece is rude and ill-judged, and it's the sort of thing that creates a climate that intimidates women and dissuades them from playing an active role in public life.

    But Britain is a free country, and people are allowed to be rude and stupid, and unless it was to develop into a campaign of harassment, where this writer followed the academic around the country, then I think social disapproval is the limit of a legitimate response.
    Most amusingly, the mini furore over this article seems to have created a new form of feminist humble-bragging. There are women on TwiX saying “oh I know how this feels, I did a lecture on quantum-astrodynamics and afterwards a guy said he didn’t hear a word because he was looking at my legs”

    Then another female academic - “mine was even worse, I had ten men talking non stop about my beautiful breasts even as I taught them about Socratic irony”

    “Well I had a zoom call where 700 different guys looked at my cleavage for nine hours…”

    Hilarious. All subtly - or not so subtly - boasting about how hot they are
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 19
    It's too early to say whether that's it as far as this round of Israel-Iran is concerned.

    The truth is that the Iranian leadership has done very little to assist Palestine so far. That may or may not continue when the 'cide is stepped up in Gaza. Fascist pogroms are surging on the West Bank right now too.

    If Netanyahu didn't have Ben Gvir he'd probably want to invent him.

    The IRGC in Iran are swearing blind they didn't damage the Israeli nuclear site at Dimona, saying the notion that they did is just psywar. Complaining about the opponent's psywar always makes a power look weak.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    It’s got you all talking about it and linking to it, like a bunch of scandalised old spinsters, so in that sense: job done
    Well, that is cynical enough to be a true reflection of the modern media.

    Honestly though, some lecherous old scroat oversharing his sexual inadequacy is not exactly healthy. I don´t think it is that prudish to find the whole thing fairly sordid. If that is the best of modern, cutting edge journalism, I don´t think we have to look far to find the sources of the coarsening of our culture and our current general national malaise.

    Just because you can, does not mean that you should.
    The state of The Spectator explains much of what is wrong with modern clickbait journalism, but also the state of the current Conservative Party. The Spectator editorial Committee has had control of the party for the last decade or so, so clickbait journalism spawned our current clickbait politics.

    The purpose is to drive engagement, though that engagement is very likely to be to chuck them out.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    In demographics and public spending news:

    https://x.com/LondonNewLibs/status/1781224153221407084

    There is an opportunity for an incoming government to use our awful demographics to achieve some decent results here. The fall in school pupils, which has started at primary level and will then feed into secondary and finally into higher education means that the DoE can potentially do a lot to improve the quality of education provision while potentially seeing year on year declines in funding.

    It doesn't happen overnight because a lot of education is fixed costs, and a class with 28 in it doesn't cost any less than a class of 30. But longer term it's an opportunity. Not only for school age education but also early years childcare. While it's sad we're not having enough children it does mean government can afford to be more generous in policies to help people get back into the workforce.

    Meanwhile at the other end of the age range of course the pipeline looks bleak. We've long since passed the event horizon into the dependency ratio black hole where health and social care gravitational force becomes so strong that not even light can escape.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    Is it reflective of their general content?

    Regardless, is it commercially successful? If so, then there's your answer how they came to dominate.
    The Spectator is remarkably commercially successful, despite (because of?) its ancient and noble lineage. In a world of declining newspaper sales I believe it has tripled or even quadrupled its readership in a couple of decades

    Hence the competition to buy it. I believe Uncle Rupert sees it as the final jewel in his crown. He’s desperate to purchase it as the last move of his long career
    Yes it sells well. Does it matter that the quality of its readership has gone down and that few with intellectual integrity or a moral compass read it now? Probably not.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    Context is everything.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    There are two types of communism. The type that overlooks from a great height and allows the people more or less to get on with it, while issuing edicts about the ascendency of the proletariat, etc; and the type that is more shop your neighbour and local party cadres being told how X was seen behaving in a counter-revolutionary way.

    Neither sounds particularly ennobling or emancipating.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    Context is everything.
    Well I haven't seen the entire article as it is paywalled. Neither have you, I suspect.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited April 19

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    Hopefully cancel culture kicks in and the Spectator has to close down.

    Such rampant misogyny needs to end.
    Is this is the new Taki? For High Life read ...
    Lea Ypi's 'Free' is one of those book (along with 'The Collapse' by Mary Elise Sarotte) that dramatically makes you shift your understanding about the end of the Cold War and gives some deeper understanding into why the people of the countries of the former Soviet Union (and some Eastern European members of the EU) and increasingly looking backwards to the communist era. Nostalgia is only part of the reason: Ypi develops a theory of freedom as being something 'inseparable from responsibility towards others, towards society', something that communism seemed to offer that neo-liberalism doesn't.

    It's a mash-up of stiff from Kant, Hegel and I'm not entirely onboard with that (nostalgia and 'it was better in the old days' is a big chunk of it) but it's nice to get a proper perspective from someone who had the full Stalinist experience.
    I'd take issue with the suggestion that communism engenders responsibility towards others and towards society. I would argue it does the opppsite.
    Communism may be bad at making a good society, but maybe shock therapy capitalism is even worse? The first is a bad way of creating it, the second can deny it even exists.

    Centrist Dadism (whether that's social democracy or one nation conservatism) for the win.
    The time for Centrist Mumism has surely come, as long as it doesn’t cause an explosion of letching at the Spectator.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    Is it reflective of their general content?

    Regardless, is it commercially successful? If so, then there's your answer how they came to dominate.
    The Spectator is remarkably commercially successful, despite (because of?) its ancient and noble lineage. In a world of declining newspaper sales I believe it has tripled or even quadrupled its readership in a couple of decades

    Hence the competition to buy it. I believe Uncle Rupert sees it as the final jewel in his crown. He’s desperate to purchase it as the last move of his long career
    Yes it sells well. Does it matter that the quality of its readership has gone down and that few with intellectual integrity or a moral compass read it now? Probably not.
    I imagine the editors can cope with the disapproval of a retired accountant who plays golf when he’s not kvetching at “repartee” and listening to toe tapping ballads in the al fresco terrace bars of Tenerife
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    edited April 19
    isam said:

    This addendum to a column by Owen Jones is quite something.


    https://x.com/oliverkamm/status/1781209617537610071?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    That's a nice clear example of a normal type of manipulative process, is it not?

    Another example would be someone on twatter, or in the Spectator, or wherever, saying "The Guardian says...", when in fact they are quoting some op-ed writing nutter (*) whom the Guardian have let through the door for reasons of "diversity of opinion".

    * Any resemblance to Corporal Jones may or may not be entirely coincidental.

  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,889

    Andy Street only just won by a whisker in May 2017, when the Tories were scoring well over 40% in national opinion polling, so I doubt it.

    Edit: similar applied in May 2021 for Street's re-election, with a positive swing in his favour, but the Tories were still doing v. well nationally.
    But this time Johnson B has rigged the electoral system in favour of the Tories. Leading candidate grabs the lot, remember!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    PB in one of its fits of prudish left wing tut-tuttery is superb

    Here is another example from TwiX

    “New Statesman "here's 12 heterodox post liberal thinkers who could help shape Starmerism"

    Spectator "have you ever had a poo and a wank at the same time"”

    https://x.com/robpalkwriter/status/1780989748078686423?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This jibe doesn’t really have the effect intended because it makes you think “Yeah, no, I’d rather read that Spectator article”
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    Leon said:

    PB in one of its fits of prudish left wing tut-tuttery is superb

    Here is another example from TwiX

    “New Statesman "here's 12 heterodox post liberal thinkers who could help shape Starmerism"

    Spectator "have you ever had a poo and a wank at the same time"”

    https://x.com/robpalkwriter/status/1780989748078686423?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This jibe doesn’t really have the effect intended because it makes you think “Yeah, no, I’d rather read that Spectator article”

    Well, have you?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,994
    ClippP said:

    Andy Street only just won by a whisker in May 2017, when the Tories were scoring well over 40% in national opinion polling, so I doubt it.

    Edit: similar applied in May 2021 for Street's re-election, with a positive swing in his favour, but the Tories were still doing v. well nationally.
    But this time Johnson B has rigged the electoral system in favour of the Tories. Leading candidate grabs the lot, remember!
    I think it makes little difference.

    Labour will clearly win under FPTP.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    I think it's necessary to distinguish between finding an individual's mindset a bit revolting and prehistoric, and condemning the actual writing.

    The writer is clearly a dirty old man. I am glad I'm not a dirty old man and what he describes is rather sordid and sad. But as an article it's well written and honest. It gives us quite an interesting insight into what dirty old men of a certain sort think and how they act. I am better informed about the internal workings of both this individual (and doubtless many more) and what happens in Cambridge massage parlours than I was before.

    Sure this is not a great work of literature, but we were talking about Ulysses yesterday. Well much of the storyline revolves around the narrator visiting a prostitute. One of the most famous works of French literature is essentially "I shot an Arab because I was bored. Get over it".

    Better out than in. If the Spectator is giving Britain an insight into the sometimes sordid inner world of the middle aged male mind then it's a service, of sorts.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    Nigelb said:

    Comparing the 2 polls, the Labour share isn’t too far out (38% v 42%). The big difference is Street’s share: 40% v 28%. So where do those Street votes go in the first poll? It’s largely Reform UK, who are on 13% v 7%.

    Does this mean the race is a big test of how to poll for Reform support?

    If Andy Street gets anywhere near to winning it would be a personal triumph. The West Midlands should be Labour Central at a time like this. Urban, and with lots of Labour strongholds. Just look at the parliamentary representation for Birmingham and Coventry for instance.
    Yes, but this is a local (OK, regional) election, and Labour's reputation in local government there is pretty awful.
    If Street wins due to Labour losing Muslim votes, the triumphalism of George Galloway will be grisly to behold. He seems to hate Keir Starmer with a passion.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    Is it reflective of their general content?

    Regardless, is it commercially successful? If so, then there's your answer how they came to dominate.
    The Spectator is remarkably commercially successful, despite (because of?) its ancient and noble lineage. In a world of declining newspaper sales I believe it has tripled or even quadrupled its readership in a couple of decades

    Hence the competition to buy it. I believe Uncle Rupert sees it as the final jewel in his crown. He’s desperate to purchase it as the last move of his long career
    Yes it sells well. Does it matter that the quality of its readership has gone down and that few with intellectual integrity or a moral compass read it now? Probably not.
    I imagine the editors can cope with the disapproval of a retired accountant who plays golf when he’s not kvetching at “repartee” and listening to toe tapping ballads in the al fresco terrace bars of Tenerife
    I am sure the editors can cope. On the wider front, what matters is the Speccie's lack of a consistent vision of what is for the political and societal good of the UK, and by what political route we might travel in that direction.

    This epic fails occurs at just the time that the right and centre right is collapsing in contradictions and when the former contrarian sanity of the Spectator is needed. Contrarian insanity won't really do.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,889

    ClippP said:

    Andy Street only just won by a whisker in May 2017, when the Tories were scoring well over 40% in national opinion polling, so I doubt it.

    Edit: similar applied in May 2021 for Street's re-election, with a positive swing in his favour, but the Tories were still doing v. well nationally.
    But this time Johnson B has rigged the electoral system in favour of the Tories. Leading candidate grabs the lot, remember!
    I think it makes little difference.

    Labour will clearly win under FPTP.
    Not clear to me, Mr Royale. Labour could do. But certainly not clear at this stage. FPTP is very messy.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    This addendum to a column by Owen Jones is quite something.





    https://x.com/oliverkamm/status/1781209617537610071?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    tim reposted on his twitter the guy who first noticed it, Oz Katerji.

    Jones's first article said that "The Defence Select Committee concluded..." and now as you show it has been amended to what actually happened which is that "Greenpeace's evidence to the defence select committee concluded..."

    And Jones is blaming the error on a trip to the dentist making him groggy.
    If Jones' answer is honest (possible) then perhaps he should blame it on not having someone competent checking his article before he submits it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,794
    edited April 19

    In the absence of other information, the logical thing is to average the two polls. On that basis, Street loses.

    (Certainly, the headlines around Menzies and Nunn won’t be helping.)

    It's very dependent on the mode. If one poll uses one mode (eg telephone polling), and another poll uses another mode (eg panel polling) then no you shouldn't average them, as demonstrated by EU16.

    (also I'm convinced you shouldn't average polls anyway: the only change that matters is the change between two polls from the same company)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695
    Leon said:

    PB in one of its fits of prudish left wing tut-tuttery is superb

    Here is another example from TwiX

    “New Statesman "here's 12 heterodox post liberal thinkers who could help shape Starmerism"

    Spectator "have you ever had a poo and a wank at the same time"”

    https://x.com/robpalkwriter/status/1780989748078686423?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This jibe doesn’t really have the effect intended because it makes you think “Yeah, no, I’d rather read that Spectator article”

    Does it? Even if I didn't have to choose I still don't want to read the latter article, ever, but then horses for courses I guess.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677

    Leon said:

    PB in one of its fits of prudish left wing tut-tuttery is superb

    Here is another example from TwiX

    “New Statesman "here's 12 heterodox post liberal thinkers who could help shape Starmerism"

    Spectator "have you ever had a poo and a wank at the same time"”

    https://x.com/robpalkwriter/status/1780989748078686423?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This jibe doesn’t really have the effect intended because it makes you think “Yeah, no, I’d rather read that Spectator article”

    Well, have you?
    No, but I have considered it
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Leon said:

    PB in one of its fits of prudish left wing tut-tuttery is superb

    Here is another example from TwiX

    “New Statesman "here's 12 heterodox post liberal thinkers who could help shape Starmerism"

    Spectator "have you ever had a poo and a wank at the same time"”

    https://x.com/robpalkwriter/status/1780989748078686423?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    This jibe doesn’t really have the effect intended because it makes you think “Yeah, no, I’d rather read that Spectator article”

    Or it reminds you why you rarely read either of them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,677
    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Not the Spectator writer I was expecting.

    Writer boasts of prostitute visit after arousal at Kant lecture

    Lloyd Evans said in Spectator piece that an academic’s ‘blonde hair’ distracted him from her lecture on the philosopher at Cambridge


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/writer-boasts-prostitute-visit-spectator-kant-lecture-0lz5g8vn0

    Yes it really is quite extraordinary that someone thought fit to publish such letchery. I know they are trying to corner the Dirty Old Man target demographic, but even so! Lea Ypi publishes a few excerpts in this tweet.

    BTW Her book is an excellent rumination on Freedom, set as Albania falls apart. I really enjoyed it.

    https://twitter.com/lea_ypi/status/1780875319735411088?t=gMy5X4EXw6O-UqJtLWNBnA&s=19
    It occurs to me that it's the generation who was writing for the lad mags who are now writing for The Spectator. Done people never grow up, but quite how they came to dominate the world's oldest news periodical I do not know.
    Is it reflective of their general content?

    Regardless, is it commercially successful? If so, then there's your answer how they came to dominate.
    The Spectator is remarkably commercially successful, despite (because of?) its ancient and noble lineage. In a world of declining newspaper sales I believe it has tripled or even quadrupled its readership in a couple of decades

    Hence the competition to buy it. I believe Uncle Rupert sees it as the final jewel in his crown. He’s desperate to purchase it as the last move of his long career
    Yes it sells well. Does it matter that the quality of its readership has gone down and that few with intellectual integrity or a moral compass read it now? Probably not.
    I imagine the editors can cope with the disapproval of a retired accountant who plays golf when he’s not kvetching at “repartee” and listening to toe tapping ballads in the al fresco terrace bars of Tenerife
    I am sure the editors can cope. On the wider front, what matters is the Speccie's lack of a consistent vision of what is for the political and societal good of the UK, and by what political route we might travel in that direction.

    This epic fails occurs at just the time that the right and centre right is collapsing in contradictions and when the former contrarian sanity of the Spectator is needed. Contrarian insanity won't really do.
    File under: ditto
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,661
    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    Lloyd Evans has been their regular theatre critic for some years, but they are looking for someone to fill Jeremy Clarke's acclaimed "Lowlife" column, and have been trying out several hopefuls. They also need to fill Taki Theodoracopulos's "Highlife" column. So far their replacements have been a bit hit and miss.

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    TimS said:

    In demographics and public spending news:

    https://x.com/LondonNewLibs/status/1781224153221407084

    There is an opportunity for an incoming government to use our awful demographics to achieve some decent results here. The fall in school pupils, which has started at primary level and will then feed into secondary and finally into higher education means that the DoE can potentially do a lot to improve the quality of education provision while potentially seeing year on year declines in funding.

    It doesn't happen overnight because a lot of education is fixed costs, and a class with 28 in it doesn't cost any less than a class of 30. But longer term it's an opportunity. Not only for school age education but also early years childcare. While it's sad we're not having enough children it does mean government can afford to be more generous in policies to help people get back into the workforce.

    Meanwhile at the other end of the age range of course the pipeline looks bleak. We've long since passed the event horizon into the dependency ratio black hole where health and social care gravitational force becomes so strong that not even light can escape.

    Even worse in Germany, China, Russia, etc. The US in much better state demographically. The age of the US hegemon is by no means over.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    edited April 19
    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    I think it's necessary to distinguish between finding an individual's mindset a bit revolting and prehistoric, and condemning the actual writing.

    The writer is clearly a dirty old man. I am glad I'm not a dirty old man and what he describes is rather sordid and sad. But as an article it's well written and honest. It gives us quite an interesting insight into what dirty old men of a certain sort think and how they act. I am better informed about the internal workings of both this individual (and doubtless many more) and what happens in Cambridge massage parlours than I was before.

    Sure this is not a great work of literature, but we were talking about Ulysses yesterday. Well much of the storyline revolves around the narrator visiting a prostitute. One of the most famous works of French literature is essentially "I shot an Arab because I was bored. Get over it".

    Better out than in. If the Spectator is giving Britain an insight into the sometimes sordid inner world of the middle aged male mind then it's a service, of sorts.
    Well as I said I haven't read the article but even the "where in Ireland do you come from/Shanghai" excerpt had me smiling. And aware that I was in good literary hands. As for the subject matter, as we have seen from everyone from Rod Liddle to The Clarksmeister himself there is a place for this kind of shock literature.

    And indeed talking about "everyone" it is not of course everyone. It is a rare gift to be able to pull off the old (white) bloke, incisive, funny, well-written schtick. Very few people can do it.

    It is different from Charles Moore or Taki who are simply small-minded or nasty take your pick.

    These people have a self-awareness and know exactly what they are doing. It is analogous to Ricky Gervais needing to point out the difference (because it sadly needs pointing out) between something offensive and a joke about something offensive.

    I might renew my Speccie subscription at this rate.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,069
    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    "repulsive and a disgrace" sounds to me like a step on the way to getting him sacked.

    Listen you and I are both men d'un age certain. Are we saying that no one is allowed to comment on a person's looks any more.
    I think it's necessary to distinguish between finding an individual's mindset a bit revolting and prehistoric, and condemning the actual writing.

    The writer is clearly a dirty old man. I am glad I'm not a dirty old man and what he describes is rather sordid and sad. But as an article it's well written and honest. It gives us quite an interesting insight into what dirty old men of a certain sort think and how they act. I am better informed about the internal workings of both this individual (and doubtless many more) and what happens in Cambridge massage parlours than I was before.

    Sure this is not a great work of literature, but we were talking about Ulysses yesterday. Well much of the storyline revolves around the narrator visiting a prostitute. One of the most famous works of French literature is essentially "I shot an Arab because I was bored. Get over it".

    Better out than in. If the Spectator is giving Britain an insight into the sometimes sordid inner world of the middle aged male mind then it's a service, of sorts.
    Ultimately, the problem isn't the articles in the Spectator. It's the Spectator's role as where middlebrow conservatism does its thinking.

    A magazine can be a kind of Loaded-without-the-pictures. Or it can be a journal of ideas on the right. The trouble comes when you try to do both at once, so that the ideas on the right boil down to Loaded-without-the-pictures.

    In which case you get... roughly what's happening.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Haven't seen the whole of the Speccie piece but taken as is it is an example (we were discussing this yesterday) of why I don't take the magazine any more.

    That said no one can dispute the quality of the writing - v funny indeed. Which makes it all the more irritating.

    And thinking about it so it's offensive. So what. Are people calling for it to be cancelled? I'm sure Owen Jones will. That would be very bad if we're not allowed to be offensive. Ask Dave Chapelle.

    As it objectifies women we are at the intersection of offence and abuse but the bigger the outcry the more minded I am too defend it even though it's the hated Speccie.

    But on the third hand I am an old(er) white bloke so perhaps my time as leader of the western world is over.
    No, this is Owen's post on the subject:

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1780951361968021560?t=JN5dzqrgMEiwZDRpMzgmhw&s=19

    I do hope the publicity benefits Ypi and boosts sales of her book and increases listenership of her podcast. Her family experience of persecution under Hoxha and the growing pains of the new Albania is a very interesting perspective, she seems to be on the leading edge of new left wing thought.
    Jones' actual output not living up to his rep as a crazy leftist culture warrior? Surely not!
This discussion has been closed.