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The world is changed – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,697
edited April 28 in General
imageThe world is changed – politicalbetting.com

Do Britons want Boris Johnson back as an MP?All Britons: 24% do / 67% don't2019 Con voters: 46% do / 46% don'thttps://t.co/kuaJeV6oUm pic.twitter.com/hHZWVtzaDz

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  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,478
    Sounds about right. Boris himself gave a non-committal answer.

    Boris Johnson refuses to rule out return as MP as Tories face electoral wipeout
    Ex-Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who quit last year after a damning report into Partygate, hinted a return to frontline politics was possible in the long-term future

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-refuses-rule-out-32569621
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,478
    edited April 13
    The first 15 minutes of The News Agents podcast is worth listening to if you have any responsibility for online security and countering spear-phishing. Emily Maitlis and Lewis Goodall speak to Politico's Aggie Chambre who broke the William Wragg story. It talks about the technique used and whether there is a separate Labour nexus. (The second half is about Rishi's tin ear and his habit of treating every question like it comes from SKS at PMQs.)

    Westminster sexting and the honeytrap | The News Agents
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAykuJgs5I
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,478
    Liz Truss: No10 was a prison infested with fleas
    Former PM spent several weeks itching, and says some claimed Dilyn, Boris Johnson’s dog, was the main suspect

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/12/liz-truss-no-10-was-a-prison-infested-by-fleas/ (£££)

    Worth noting if you play along with HIGNFY.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Be interesting to see whether Starmer can maintain cohesion over his party if Britain’s armed forces are actively engaged in the Middle East by the time the election rolls by. The obvious play would be to enter the ‘national security party’ space vacated by the Tories. But will the activists let him?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743
    Book fans please explain...
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,509
    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    I don't think he was either hero or villain. In sum, he was just a bit weak. The right instincts on covid but was influenced to become a big lockdowner. Wanted to get Brexit done but allowed progress to be undermined completely by the blob. Wanted to revive the economy and 'level up' but became an econutter instead. Gareth Roberts has it right when he speaks of Boris as just another 'weak Blairite'. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tories-deserve-our-contempt/

    He very much lacked a 'behind the scenes' person to make it all happen for him. His person was Dominic Cummings and it wasn't a success.

    He did however have a few redeeming qualities, which is more than we can say for the current incumbent.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282
    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    Yes, Streeting soiled himself in public
    this week. He is not the Statesman genius he thinks he is. He reminds me a lot of Osborne.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Will it call him fat?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743
    Sorry to be so gloomy, but after watching Leicester lose to Plymouth away last night, I am a bit fed up. It follows on from losing to Millwall away on Tuesday. My team are the new Spurs and have been fading second half of the season for the 5 seasons, but this is an epic flop. It is painful to watch.

    Laying Leicester to win the Championship seems free money. Lay for promotion too.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be so gloomy, but after watching Leicester lose to Plymouth away last night, I am a bit fed up. It follows on from losing to Millwall away on Tuesday. My team are the new Spurs and have been fading second half of the season for the 5 seasons, but this is an epic flop. It is painful to watch.

    Laying Leicester to win the Championship seems free money. Lay for promotion too.

    Could be worse, you could support Glaws.

    They had Yorkshire less than 200 for 6 and still couldn't bowl the buggers out cheaply.

    If we can't beat a side as rubbish as Yorkshire this is going to be a loooong season.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    Two of the three are Cambridge-educated lawyers and the other has been roundly criticised for his taste in footwear. They share a pb account in the name of...
    Those three it's more like the Fall of the Eagles.
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    Yes, Streeting soiled himself in public
    this week. He is not the Statesman genius he thinks he is. He reminds me a lot of Osborne.
    "Soiled himself in public"

    What are you talking about?
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282
    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    If the Tory Party fail and that's a big "if", Labour seem to be doing their best to drag defeat from the jaws of victory, what with corruption, the Middle East and pandering to white van man, the architect was Johnson.
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    boulayboulay Posts: 3,973

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    Yes, Streeting soiled himself in public
    this week. He is not the Statesman genius he thinks he is. He reminds me a lot of Osborne.
    He seems like a classic case of someone who is so overly ambitious that he’s pissing people off in his party and when he cocks up there will be plenty on his own side who will stick the knife in.

    I also think the public might eventually see through him once he gets more exposure when Labour are in power. He won’t be able to hide his jockeying to take over from SKS and it will put a lot of people off. He’d probably be better off in the Tory party weirdly where he could press all the right buttons despite the policies being not his natural hinterland, like Blair in reverse.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,019
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,797

    The first 15 minutes of The News Agents podcast is worth listening to if you have any responsibility for online security and countering spear-phishing. Emily Maitlis and Lewis Goodall speak to Politico's Aggie Chambre who broke the William Wragg story. It talks about the technique used and whether there is a separate Labour nexus. (The second half is about Rishi's tin ear and his habit of treating every question like it comes from SKS at PMQs.)

    Westminster sexting and the honeytrap | The News Agents
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAykuJgs5I

    I suppose that hostile forces have always sought to compromise MP's and public figures in this way - it is the method that is interesting. I am not sure these MPs are uniquely vulnerable.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    A universal truth, wanker shall cleave unto wanker (and dress really badly while they’re at it).


  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    Maybe war with Iran saves the Conservative Party. Vote The War Act 2024 through Parliament suspending elections, and crack on with a Government of all the talents including Reform MP Anderson, Lord Farage, Lord Tice, Lord Fox and Lord Yaxley-Lennon.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282

    A universal truth, wanker shall cleave unto wanker (and dress really badly while they’re at it).


    Are the remaining Bay City Rollers reforming?
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    Conservative opinions across the categories given in the header table have achieved maximum entropy. No further disintegration is possible.
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    edited April 13

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    Maybe war with Iran saves the Conservative Party. Vote The War Act 2024 through Parliament suspending elections, and crack on with a Government of all the talents including Reform MP Anderson, Lord Farage, Lord Tice, Lord Fox and Lord Yaxley-Lennon.
    Who really cares to be honest. It would be a good weekend to fill up the car and buy some extra staples like Parmesan
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-us-missile-ship-anchors-off-israel-coast-report/

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    Maybe war with Iran saves the Conservative Party. Vote The War Act 2024 through Parliament suspending elections, and crack on with a Government of all the talents including Reform MP Anderson, Lord Farage, Lord Tice, Lord Fox and Lord Yaxley-Lennon.
    Who really cares to be honest. It would be a good weekend to fill up the car and buy some extra staples like Parmesan
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-us-missile-ship-anchors-off-israel-coast-report/

    Bibi has played a blinder with his attack on the Iranian Embassy.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    just because they are wrong 'uns and deserve a good kicking for all the troubles they cause
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    Maybe war with Iran saves the Conservative Party. Vote The War Act 2024 through Parliament suspending elections, and crack on with a Government of all the talents including Reform MP Anderson, Lord Farage, Lord Tice, Lord Fox and Lord Yaxley-Lennon.
    Who really cares to be honest. It would be a good weekend to fill up the car and buy some extra staples like Parmesan
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-us-missile-ship-anchors-off-israel-coast-report/

    Bibi has played a blinder with his attack on the Iranian Embassy.
    Perhaps. Perhaps not. If Iron Dome is not as effective as he hopes, it might precipitate his downfall.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,115
    Multiple people have been stabbed in Sydney:

    https://x.com/9newssyd/status/1779043438521991271
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282
    edited April 13
    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    just because they are wrong 'uns and deserve a good kicking for all the troubles they cause
    If it keeps the Conservatives in Government it'll be worth the heartache.

    Just a thought, if we end up owning Iran with the US, Paul Kigame can f*** off, we'll have our own depository for asylum seekers.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,530
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    Obviously that would be a bad thing. But if you are going to raise the state of the Conservative party in 2019, as you did, Brexit is the only lens that makes any sense.

    Exam question from the 2070s or so, framed around a fake quote:

    'The worst thing about Brexit was that it made Boris Johnson Prime Minister'. Discuss.

    But not until the 2070s.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282

    Multiple people have been stabbed in Sydney:

    https://x.com/9newssyd/status/1779043438521991271

    I haven't seen you news, but I'm guessing you smell an Islamic angle.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    malcolmg said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    just because they are wrong 'uns and deserve a good kicking for all the troubles they cause
    If it keeps the Conservatives in Government it'll be worth the heartache.

    Just a thought, if we end up owning Iran with the US, Paul Kigame can f*** off, we'll have our own depository for asylum seekers.
    great idea
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,115
    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    I see blaming the next lot of politicians for the failings of the NHS has begun before they even take office.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    I see blaming the next lot of politicians for the failings of the NHS has begun before they even take office.
    Streeting has been an utter arse this week. He's way ahead of himself. If he thinks he's already in post he deserves the kicking Foxy is giving him for the shambles over which he thinks he is presiding.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,019
    edited April 13
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    In election year? No. I'm no James Carville but closing the Madiq Hormuz thus spiking oil prices and inflation doesn't feel like the right move at this point.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Biden: My expectation (of an Iranian attack) is sooner than later.

    Rubio (Gang of 8): Barring some last minute development Iran is going to attack #Israel. The response and risk of escalation will depend on what and how they attack.

  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244
    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    In election year? No. I'm no James Carville but closing the Madiq Hormuz thus spiking oil prices and inflation doesn't feel like the right move at this point.
    For what it’s worth, the estimation by those paid to think about these things, is that Iran would have no incentive to close Hormuz.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,520
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    Maybe war with Iran saves the Conservative Party. Vote The War Act 2024 through Parliament suspending elections, and crack on with a Government of all the talents including Reform MP Anderson, Lord Farage, Lord Tice, Lord Fox and Lord Yaxley-Lennon.
    Who really cares to be honest. It would be a good weekend to fill up the car and buy some extra staples like Parmesan
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240412-us-missile-ship-anchors-off-israel-coast-report/

    Bibi has played a blinder with his attack on the Iranian Embassy.
    Perhaps. Perhaps not. If Iron Dome is not as effective as he hopes, it might precipitate his downfall.
    Iron Dome is the defense against short range rockets.

    Against what the Iranians might be lobbing the system will be Arrow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_(missile_family)
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,728

    Multiple people have been stabbed in Sydney:

    https://x.com/9newssyd/status/1779043438521991271

    Multiple people have been shot at a school in Texas: https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/wilmer-hutchins-high-school-shooting-dallas-isd/
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743
    edited April 13

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    I see blaming the next lot of politicians for the failings of the NHS has begun before they even take office.
    Streeting's policy is the same as the current one that's failed, only with doubling down on insulting the staff, so what do you expect?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,115

    Multiple people have been stabbed in Sydney:

    https://x.com/9newssyd/status/1779043438521991271

    Multiple people have been shot at a school in Texas: https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/wilmer-hutchins-high-school-shooting-dallas-isd/
    Fake news. The headline says only one person was shot.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    edited April 13
    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    As for Israel/Iran, better out than in.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,347
    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,520
    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    IIRC, Sydney has a problem with teenage gangs with a predeliction for knives.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    A middle east state closing a strategic water passageway didn't go brilliantly well for the state concerned last time round.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    Just me then, is it.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,520

    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds
    Accidents in a melee.

    Or as a result of the spiral of “we will do what our opponents are too soft to do”. See the Mexican drug war.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389
    edited April 13

    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    IIRC, Sydney has a problem with teenage gangs with a predeliction for knives.
    So does London. This is (edit: was) a marauding attack. Victims are "citizens" as Omar put it.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds
    Terror, Big G, terror.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,530
    TOPPING said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
    Had he never been emperor, no one would have doubted his ability to reign.

    (Tacitus on Emperor Galba)

    Only probably in Latin. And plenty of people had doubts in advance which pretty much came to pass. But one should try to be charitable.
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 588

    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds
    Accidents in a melee.

    Or as a result of the spiral of “we will do what our opponents are too soft to do”. See the Mexican drug war.
    A third possibility: psychosis.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,095
    TOPPING said:

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, totally squandered.

    got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, it's a shitshow.

    was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, couldn't follow his own rules, blatant disregard for the safety of himself and others.

    only to emerge to take up the reins again, in as much as he ever held them.

    then laid low by all too human failings, amazing it didn't happen sooner.

    BoZo's history will be written as a cautionary tale, not a heroic epic...
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030


  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,719
    edited April 13
    TOPPING said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
    Oddly enough I had a dream last night about Boris being assessed on his strengths and weaknesses by a panel of experts. Except although he was recognisably Boris Johnson, he was also recognisably the Peter Cook football manager character on Clive Anderson talks back.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSKLtpUASU&list=PL8D1D31CF82B4C287&index=3&pp=iAQB

    Why was my brain suddenly recalling a spoof interview from 2 decades ago that I’ve not though about in years?
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498
    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
    Oddly enough I had a dream last night about Boris being assessed on his strengths and weaknesses by a panel of experts. Except although he was recognisably Boris Johnson, he was also recognisably the Peter Cook football manager character on Clive Anderson talks back.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSKLtpUASU&list=PL8D1D31CF82B4C287&index=3&pp=iAQB

    Why was my brain suddenly recalling a spoof interview from 2 decades ago that I’ve not though about in years?
    That was one of the most brilliant pieces of comedy in comedy history. Hard to believe it was just a one off. I wonder if it's on youtube
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 588
    edited April 13
    Angela Rayner and her husband re-registered their children's births after they got married in 2010. That's a legal requirement and therefore there's nothing peculiar about it. But if the form then was the same as it is now (the LA1) then both the mother and father would have had to fill in their addresses. What did she put for hers?

    It would be interesting to know. I should add that I don't think there's an obligation to put your "permanent" address, or even where you're living most of the time. If you wanted to put a correspondence address or if you maintained a home separate from your husband's and you wanted to put his address as yours to keep things simple, I don't think you'd be breaking the law.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    TOPPING said:

    A middle east state closing a strategic water passageway didn't go brilliantly well for the state concerned last time round.

    Sir Anthony Eden might beg to differ.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,520

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030


    There’s a long history of people being refused entry into various countries and claiming they are an innocent victim.

    Terry Jones ring a bell?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,763
    TOPPING said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
    A big factor in Johnson's historical reputation is what happens to the Conservative Party now. If the Starmer government is short lived and the Conservatives come bouncing back as a mildly populist party he could be seen as the progenitor of that trend. If the Conservatives are out of office for a long period and/or reinvent themselves in rejection of the Johnson years, no-one important will push his side of the story.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,211
    Foxy said:

    Sorry to be so gloomy, but after watching Leicester lose to Plymouth away last night, I am a bit fed up. It follows on from losing to Millwall away on Tuesday. My team are the new Spurs and have been fading second half of the season for the 5 seasons, but this is an epic flop. It is painful to watch.

    Laying Leicester to win the Championship seems free money. Lay for promotion too.

    Not sure you will finish Top 2 now. However not convinced by Leeds and Ipswich either. If Southampton beat Watford today then they become new Top 2 favourites? Watford have done really well recently and are probably safe but I suspect we will lose today.

    Still we have Keir and Wes to look forward to soon! 😈

    Message for Keir: one out of two ain't bad (Arsenal aren't going to win the league either)

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,520
    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sydney looks grim. Plus almost worse, shocking CPR technique on a casualty by on site plod.

    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds
    Accidents in a melee.

    Or as a result of the spiral of “we will do what our opponents are too soft to do”. See the Mexican drug war.
    A third possibility: psychosis.
    Yup - often hard to tell from the second option, though.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,719
    edited April 13
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
    Oddly enough I had a dream last night about Boris being assessed on his strengths and weaknesses by a panel of experts. Except although he was recognisably Boris Johnson, he was also recognisably the Peter Cook football manager character on Clive Anderson talks back.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSKLtpUASU&list=PL8D1D31CF82B4C287&index=3&pp=iAQB

    Why was my brain suddenly recalling a spoof interview from 2 decades ago that I’ve not though about in years?
    That was one of the most brilliant pieces of comedy in comedy history. Hard to believe it was just a one off. I wonder if it's on youtube
    Updated my post with the YouTube clip. It’s as funny now as it was then (and it was 3 decades ago, not 2!)

    “Football: if it’s about anything then it’s got to be about something. And that something is football”
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    TOPPING said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, only to emerge to take up the reins again, then laid low by all too human failings.

    Posterity will look favourably on him.
    Oddly enough I had a dream last night about Boris being assessed on his strengths and weaknesses by a panel of experts. Except although he was recognisably Boris Johnson, he was also recognisably the Peter Cook football manager character on Clive Anderson talks back.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHSKLtpUASU&list=PL8D1D31CF82B4C287&index=3&pp=iAQB

    Why was my brain suddenly recalling a spoof interview from 2 decades ago that I’ve not though about in years?
    That was one of the most brilliant pieces of comedy in comedy history. Hard to believe it was just a one off. I wonder if it's on youtube
    Updated my post with the YouTube clip. It’s as funny now as it was then (and it was 3 decades ago, not 2!)
    Thanks Tim. That's my breakfast viewing sorted!
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879
    edited April 13
    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    In election year? No. I'm no James Carville but closing the Madiq Hormuz thus spiking oil prices and inflation doesn't feel like the right move at this point.
    For what it’s worth, the estimation by those paid to think about these things, is that Iran would have no incentive to close Hormuz.
    Getting aerated about the wrong end of the Med, perhaps? Here's where it's at right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13303179/Britains-Gibraltar-concessions-Spain-just-reach-post-Brexit-deal-Red-Arrows-trip-axed-Madrid-warned-hostile-act-threatened-retaliation-visit-HMS-Queen-Elizabeth-cancelled-appease-Spaniards.html
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,879

    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, totally squandered.

    got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, it's a shitshow.

    was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, couldn't follow his own rules, blatant disregard for the safety of himself and others.

    only to emerge to take up the reins again, in as much as he ever held them.

    then laid low by all too human failings, amazing it didn't happen sooner.

    BoZo's history will be written as a cautionary tale, not a heroic epic...
    There is something else - levelling up. The Tories had a once-in-a-generational opportunity to break into all kinds of (frankly old once upon a time Tory) places which had become dreadfully tired of Labour.

    Not only have they managed not to deliver any of the promises, they have instead displayed the very worst behaviours that aggravate voters - open lies, massive corruption, and then arrogant aggression about anyone who holds the mirror up.

    Tory MPs and the Lord Houchen are very fast to block people. Very fast. Not for disagreeing with them. For asking questions. Ask where the promised hospital is? Blocked. Ask why you're saying Brexit is good for local business when the local business group is showing with evidence that its bad? Blocked. Where is the money for my town you keep promising? Blocked.

    Forget the coming election and think about the alternative scenario. The Tories actually had bothered to even try to find ways to invest in these forgotten towns. Not just up north. The transformation in the entire political spectrum. How did they get it so spectacularly wrong?
    You forgot (improbably) HS2. And then spending the money on southern potholes.
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 588
    TOPPING said:

    A middle east state closing a strategic water passageway didn't go brilliantly well for the state concerned last time round.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/03/28/united-arab-emirates-love-uae-message-runway-abd-al-kuri/

    Cf "Kilroy was here" - rarely written by a chap called Kilroy.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030


    There’s a long history of people being refused entry into various countries and claiming they are an innocent victim.

    Terry Jones ring a bell?
    He was attending a conference in Berlin on Gaza where he was going to talk about the medical situation, and which the police cut off power to and broke up.
    Perhaps you have some bloke you've talked to that can enlighten us on the 'real' reason that a doctor & newly elected rector of Glasgow University was detained and deported?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    Donkeys said:

    Angela Rayner and her husband re-registered their children's births after they got married in 2010. That's a legal requirement and therefore there's nothing peculiar about it. But if the form then was the same as it is now (the LA1) then both the mother and father would have had to fill in their addresses. What did she put for hers?

    It would be interesting to know. I should add that I don't think there's an obligation to put your "permanent" address, or even where you're living most of the time. If you wanted to put a correspondence address or if you maintained a home separate from your husband's and you wanted to put his address as yours to keep things simple, I don't think you'd be breaking the law.

    Would it ?

    For electoral purposes, you can have more than one 'permanent address', providing each has 'elements of' permanence. Though that is admittedly unusual, it's far from unknown.

    So a discrepancy between permanent addresses registered for different matters isn't necessarily a massive gotcha.

    Given they were (I think) in the same constituency, this seems an enormous waste of police time. And political attention.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760

    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, totally squandered.

    got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, it's a shitshow.

    was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, couldn't follow his own rules, blatant disregard for the safety of himself and others.

    only to emerge to take up the reins again, in as much as he ever held them.

    then laid low by all too human failings, amazing it didn't happen sooner.

    BoZo's history will be written as a cautionary tale, not a heroic epic...
    There is something else - levelling up. The Tories had a once-in-a-generational opportunity to break into all kinds of (frankly old once upon a time Tory) places which had become dreadfully tired of Labour.

    Not only have they managed not to deliver any of the promises, they have instead displayed the very worst behaviours that aggravate voters - open lies, massive corruption, and then arrogant aggression about anyone who holds the mirror up.

    Tory MPs and the Lord Houchen are very fast to block people. Very fast. Not for disagreeing with them. For asking questions. Ask where the promised hospital is? Blocked. Ask why you're saying Brexit is good for local business when the local business group is showing with evidence that its bad? Blocked. Where is the money for my town you keep promising? Blocked.

    Forget the coming election and think about the alternative scenario. The Tories actually had bothered to even try to find ways to invest in these forgotten towns. Not just up north. The transformation in the entire political spectrum. How did they get it so spectacularly wrong?
    They spent their time in internecine fighting and promptly forgot their voters

    And were unfortunate when two black swans turned up - Covid and Putin- which just made things worse.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,092

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    Yes, Streeting soiled himself in public
    this week. He is not the Statesman genius he thinks he is. He reminds me a lot of Osborne.
    Give it an effing rest.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282

    Laura and the BBC warn of Labour chaos!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68805211

    If the impartial BBC is worried, best stick with the Tories.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236
    Carnyx said:

    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    Hmmm… that’s a take I suppose. The party collapse happened more or less as a result of him being deposed and nearly happened prior to his ascension.
    But if you look at why the Conservatives were in so much trouble (Brexit and the failure of the Conservatives to pass their leader's deal), the 2019 near-collapse has Boris's fingerprints all over it. He doesn't get credit for solving a problem he helped create.

    As for Conservative MPs who fell for him, do we mean chumps like these three?



    Hope they were never put in charge of anything important- their judgement is clearly terrible.
    😹 Is this forum really going to fixate on Brexit again when we look to be days and possibly only hours from Western forces engaging Iran in the battlefield?
    What? Why the fuck are we having a war with Iran?
    There are US warships parked off the coast of Israel and the US has said that if Iran attacks Israel, they will use their missile defence to help protect it. It’s not a big leap to imagine US tomahawks being dispatched to wherever fired off said missiles.
    In election year? No. I'm no James Carville but closing the Madiq Hormuz thus spiking oil prices and inflation doesn't feel like the right move at this point.
    For what it’s worth, the estimation by those paid to think about these things, is that Iran would have no incentive to close Hormuz.
    Getting aerated about the wrong end of the Med, perhaps? Here's where it's at right now:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13303179/Britains-Gibraltar-concessions-Spain-just-reach-post-Brexit-deal-Red-Arrows-trip-axed-Madrid-warned-hostile-act-threatened-retaliation-visit-HMS-Queen-Elizabeth-cancelled-appease-Spaniards.html
    I will always treasure HYUFD's assertion that doughty Brit bookies would turn Gib into a second Stalingrad if Johnny Spanish tried any funny business.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,520

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030


    There’s a long history of people being refused entry into various countries and claiming they are an innocent victim.

    Terry Jones ring a bell?
    He was attending a conference in Berlin on Gaza where he was going to talk about the medical situation, and which the police cut off power to and broke up.
    Perhaps you have some bloke you've talked to that can enlighten us on the 'real' reason that a doctor & newly elected rector of Glasgow University was detained and deported?
    Having dealt with German officialdom, there is a very small set of things that get them fired up like this. And unlike the U.K., the police take the idea of limited powers quite seriously.

    So either German officialdom has gone off the rails or …
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    The first 15 minutes of The News Agents podcast is worth listening to if you have any responsibility for online security and countering spear-phishing. Emily Maitlis and Lewis Goodall speak to Politico's Aggie Chambre who broke the William Wragg story. It talks about the technique used and whether there is a separate Labour nexus. (The second half is about Rishi's tin ear and his habit of treating every question like it comes from SKS at PMQs.)

    Westminster sexting and the honeytrap | The News Agents
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PAykuJgs5I

    That’s a very interesting discussion, thanks for posting.

    What a very weird story, with seemingly dozens of MPs, staffers, and Westminster journalists involved, all starting with an unsolicited message saying that they met and flirted some time ago, but also all individual and with knowledge of their past movements and events they’d attended.

    The weird thing is the lack of obvious motive - the person behind it could be anyone from a comedian, through a disgruntled staffer or journalist, to a foreign state agent trying to blackmail people.

    The IT training aspect is also an interesting one (from a personal and professional perspective). It’s very difficult to detect these sort of things, especially among social people who spend their days meeting others, and where there is some knowledge of them, such as “we met at the X by-election last year”. The moral of the story has to be to be careful about all unsolicited messages, even if that might come across negatively to those sending them in good faith.

    Oh, and I’ve said this a thousand times before, but get off WhatsApp.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,092
    edited April 13


    Laura and the BBC warn of Labour chaos!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68805211

    If the impartial BBC is worried, best stick with the Tories.

    Stop spending your time digging up daft partisan crap from the likes of Laura K and do something worthwhile with your Saturday. Go for a bike ride, tend to the garden, take lunch in a nice pub.

    Change the record.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472


    Laura and the BBC warn of Labour chaos!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68805211

    If the impartial BBC is worried, best stick with the Tories.

    I find myself in an interesting position of (a) not really giving a toss about Angela Rayner and her house and what she did with it and (b) being rather amused at the kerfuffle it's all causing.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    Yes, Streeting soiled himself in public
    this week. He is not the Statesman genius he thinks he is. He reminds me a lot of Osborne.
    Give it an effing rest.
    This is what I had in mind.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/08/middle-class-lefties-wont-stop-labour-using-private-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says

    Or

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-diane-abbott-private-health-wes-streeting-b2528033.html

    Try analysing potential failure rather than blithely following Labour down white van man cul de sacs.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,057
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    A middle east state closing a strategic water passageway didn't go brilliantly well for the state concerned last time round.

    Sir Anthony Eden might beg to differ.
    @Topping said the 'last time round', which I think refers to the Tanker War, e.g. the Iranian threat against the Straits of Hormuz.

    e.g.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,743
    edited April 13
    Nigelb said:

    Donkeys said:

    Angela Rayner and her husband re-registered their children's births after they got married in 2010. That's a legal requirement and therefore there's nothing peculiar about it. But if the form then was the same as it is now (the LA1) then both the mother and father would have had to fill in their addresses. What did she put for hers?

    It would be interesting to know. I should add that I don't think there's an obligation to put your "permanent" address, or even where you're living most of the time. If you wanted to put a correspondence address or if you maintained a home separate from your husband's and you wanted to put his address as yours to keep things simple, I don't think you'd be breaking the law.

    Would it ?

    For electoral purposes, you can have more than one 'permanent address', providing each has 'elements of' permanence. Though that is admittedly unusual, it's far from unknown.

    So a discrepancy between permanent addresses registered for different matters isn't necessarily a massive gotcha.

    Given they were (I think) in the same constituency, this seems an enormous waste of police time. And political attention.
    That's the point!

    It's a dead cat to ditract.

    Meanwhile in perhaps the greatest example of Chutzpah* in recent times, Johnson has been deploring cronyism and politicians enabling their mates:

    .@BorisJohnson: 'Without democracy governments will become corrupt and they will be run by an elite who will hand power to other members of that elite down the generations and that will have a terrible effect on the rule of law'

    https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1778796578792251747?t=yT5a2w0dpYU2Z1r-rzi1Dw&s=19

    *best Chutzpah since a defendant on trial for murdering his parents pleaded for clemency on the grounds of being an orphan.
  • Options
    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,690

    Scott_xP said:

    TOPPING said:

    Disagree.

    One of the largest parliamentary majorities, totally squandered.

    got Brexit done after interminable wrangling, it's a shitshow.

    was mandling (sic) the pox when became a casualty himself, couldn't follow his own rules, blatant disregard for the safety of himself and others.

    only to emerge to take up the reins again, in as much as he ever held them.

    then laid low by all too human failings, amazing it didn't happen sooner.

    BoZo's history will be written as a cautionary tale, not a heroic epic...
    There is something else - levelling up. The Tories had a once-in-a-generational opportunity to break into all kinds of (frankly old once upon a time Tory) places which had become dreadfully tired of Labour.

    Not only have they managed not to deliver any of the promises, they have instead displayed the very worst behaviours that aggravate voters - open lies, massive corruption, and then arrogant aggression about anyone who holds the mirror up.

    Tory MPs and the Lord Houchen are very fast to block people. Very fast. Not for disagreeing with them. For asking questions. Ask where the promised hospital is? Blocked. Ask why you're saying Brexit is good for local business when the local business group is showing with evidence that its bad? Blocked. Where is the money for my town you keep promising? Blocked.

    Forget the coming election and think about the alternative scenario. The Tories actually had bothered to even try to find ways to invest in these forgotten towns. Not just up north. The transformation in the entire political spectrum. How did they get it so spectacularly wrong?
    They were more interested in helping their cronies get even richer.....
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,389

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    A middle east state closing a strategic water passageway didn't go brilliantly well for the state concerned last time round.

    Sir Anthony Eden might beg to differ.
    @Topping said the 'last time round', which I think refers to the Tanker War, e.g. the Iranian threat against the Straits of Hormuz.

    e.g.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis
    Strait of Tiran
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 588

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030

    They shut the conference using more than 900 polizei.
    Clearly what he might have or would have said was considered a threat.
    Even Karl Liebknecht got a few words out ("Down with the war. Down with the government") before he was arrested and jailed.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,236

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030


    There’s a long history of people being refused entry into various countries and claiming they are an innocent victim.

    Terry Jones ring a bell?
    He was attending a conference in Berlin on Gaza where he was going to talk about the medical situation, and which the police cut off power to and broke up.
    Perhaps you have some bloke you've talked to that can enlighten us on the 'real' reason that a doctor & newly elected rector of Glasgow University was detained and deported?
    Having dealt with German officialdom, there is a very small set of things that get them fired up like this. And unlike the U.K., the police take the idea of limited powers quite seriously.

    So either German officialdom has gone off the rails or …
    So it's knowingly tapping the side of the nose and not a revelation from some bloke you happened to have talked to? Disappointing.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,009
    edited April 13


    Laura and the BBC warn of Labour chaos!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68805211

    If the impartial BBC is worried, best stick with the Tories.

    I find myself in an interesting position of (a) not really giving a toss about Angela Rayner and her house and what she did with it and (b) being rather amused at the kerfuffle it's all causing.
    I find it there strange that a story that is 10 years old is playing out now and being kept for the actual election campaign.

    Mind you multiple housing lawyers telling Guido he was talking complete horseshit was fun to watch last night

  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,530
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donkeys said:

    Angela Rayner and her husband re-registered their children's births after they got married in 2010. That's a legal requirement and therefore there's nothing peculiar about it. But if the form then was the same as it is now (the LA1) then both the mother and father would have had to fill in their addresses. What did she put for hers?

    It would be interesting to know. I should add that I don't think there's an obligation to put your "permanent" address, or even where you're living most of the time. If you wanted to put a correspondence address or if you maintained a home separate from your husband's and you wanted to put his address as yours to keep things simple, I don't think you'd be breaking the law.

    Would it ?

    For electoral purposes, you can have more than one 'permanent address', providing each has 'elements of' permanence. Though that is admittedly unusual, it's far from unknown.

    So a discrepancy between permanent addresses registered for different matters isn't necessarily a massive gotcha.

    Given they were (I think) in the same constituency, this seems an enormous waste of police time. And political attention.
    That's the point!

    It's a dead cat to ditract.

    Meanwhile in perhaps the greatest example of Chutzpah* in recent times, Johnson has been deploring cronyism and politicians enabling their mates:

    .@BorisJohnson: 'Without democracy governments will become corrupt and they will be run by an elite who will hand power to other members of that elite down the generations and that will have a terrible effect on the rule of law'

    https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1778796578792251747?t=yT5a2w0dpYU2Z1r-rzi1Dw&s=19

    *best Chutzpah since a defendant on trial for murdering his parents pleaded for clemency on the grounds of being an orphan.
    Was that the same speech where he said this?

    Boris Johnson was enjoying himself in Canada, addressing a conservative conference. He told the guests it would be to everyone’s benefit if he were “back in power as soon as possible”. He added, apparently half in jest: “There’s not a day that goes by now where I don’t think the world would be substantially improved if that were the case.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rishi-sunak-hopes-for-a-stroke-of-luck-but-voters-are-feeling-gloomy-85rm8jh6w
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,282


    Laura and the BBC warn of Labour chaos!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68805211

    If the impartial BBC is worried, best stick with the Tories.

    I find myself in an interesting position of (a) not really giving a toss about Angela Rayner and her house and what she did with it and (b) being rather amused at the kerfuffle it's all causing.
    There is a classist, misogynistic undercurrent to the Rayner story. It reared up here yesterday. I think it was Root (might be wrong) who called her "thick", which I doubt she is. And (possibly someone else) called her a "slapper", which is nothing short of a smack-down to any feisty woman who doesn't realise in certain male minds her place is in the kitchen.

    I don't like Rayner, nonetheless the establishment, be that Labour or Conservative biased are out to give her a kicking.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,092
    edited April 13

    Foxy said:

    History will not be kind to Mr Johnson.

    Should be worse on the Tory MPs who knew him well and chose him as leader with the fairly predictable result of the party collapsing and massive damage created for the country.
    They deserve obliteration and are going to get it.

    I am not optimistic for a Starmer government, and despise Streeting already. I am not looking forward to it at all. I really am not willing to tactically vote for it, even if the price is my Tory MP surviving as part of the rump opposition.
    Yes, Streeting soiled himself in public
    this week. He is not the Statesman genius he thinks he is. He reminds me a lot of Osborne.
    Give it an effing rest.
    This is what I had in mind.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/08/middle-class-lefties-wont-stop-labour-using-private-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says

    Or

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-diane-abbott-private-health-wes-streeting-b2528033.html

    Try analysing potential failure rather than blithely following Labour down white van man cul de sacs.
    If a local private hospital has capacity and can be used to treat NHS patients, why not? My wife was treated at a local private hospital on the NHS. It all went well.

    The immediate challenge for the NHS is its pisspoor, antiquated admin. Stupid paper letters rather than texts. Ring Up at Exactly 8am or Get Fucked. Only Pound Coins in the Car Park Meter. It is agony to use.

    Hopefully Wes can start to sort it.
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    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 588
    edited April 13
    eek said:


    Laura and the BBC warn of Labour chaos!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68805211

    If the impartial BBC is worried, best stick with the Tories.

    I find myself in an interesting position of (a) not really giving a toss about Angela Rayner and her house and what she did with it and (b) being rather amused at the kerfuffle it's all causing.
    I find it there strange that a story that is 10 years old is playing out now and being kept for the actual election campaign.

    Mind you multiple housing lawyers telling Guido he was talking complete horseshit was fun to watch last night

    If Paul Staines had ever been near a council estate in his life, he'd know that many properties are let to tenants (often students) as soon as they're bought. Of course there's no requirement that you have to live there for five years to avoid having to pay back a slice of the discount.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,092

    If I may just say something personal:

    I've just spent half the night in hospital with our son. He's back home now, but the ambulance staff were excellent (*), as were the nurses and doctors who treated him. even our doctor's surgery, which I have often whinged about, saw him promptly yesterday with an emergency appointment.

    We talk a great deal about broken Britain, but it works well - or even excellently - a lot of the time. But we need it to work well like this more of the time.

    (*) Especially as they put "Pt in clean clothes. House tidy and clean" in their notes. :)

    Good to hear. Best wishes to him for a speedy recovery.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927
    Donkeys said:

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030

    They shut the conference using more than 900 polizei.
    Clearly what he might have or would have said was considered a threat.
    Even Karl Liebknecht got a few words out ("Down with the war. Down with the government") before he was arrested and jailed.
    Germany taking what was likely very thinly-veiled anti-Semitism rather seriously. Who’d have thought it?
This discussion has been closed.