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A Crime of a Law – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Reading this disc ussion, one would have no idea at all that the Bill was finally passed by 82 to 32 with four abstentions to pass the Hate Crime and Public Order Bill, under a minority SNP administration, or that Labour and the LDs as well as SGs were strong supporters.

    And note that Adam Tomkins quote earlier.

    https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S5M-24322

    You're right of course. The Scottish Tories should be getting a lot more credit for opposing this nonsense, as they should with their opposition to the Gender reform Bill, as they should for the opposition to the Deposit recovery Scheme, etc etc. But they don't. Meanwhile Scottish Labour really don't seem to understand what opposition is about and just hang around hopefully waiting for their turn to come again.
    Still, I’m sure the guys hangin aboot outside Holyrood today are more than willing to give credit to the SCons.



    A question for the ages, where ARE the women without penises of Scotland? Are they like the Entwives, lost in the mists of time and legend?
    Not sure what you think that these people have to do with the Scottish Conservatives.

    And I don't even understand your question. Nice LOTR reference though.
    As you suggest you SCons can’t be too picky, gather ye rosebuds of support while and where ye may.

    It’s not my question, it’s on the placard of one of the protestors against the Hate Crime act (and supporter of Trump by the look of it).
    At least Boris Johnson had (just) enough brains to pretend to support Barack Obama.

    Rishi Sunak and his fellow CUPers are too stupid to pretend to support Joe Biden. Instead, busy dogwhistling their admiration for (and imitation of) their TRUE role model = Donald Trump.
    Obama who was notably weak on Putin?
    Yes, Obama was weak on Putin.

    And we should be more critical of him for it.

    But Obama is not on the ballot. And Obama is not actively hampering the provision of aid to Ukraine.
    But to regard support for Obama over McCain or Romney as a litmus test of respectability while crusading against 'Putinism' looks like cynical partisan posturing.

    Would a McCain administration have had a 'reset' with Putin after the invasion of Georgia? Hillary Clinton's attempts to ingratiate herself with Sergey Lavrov were a running joke on Russian comedy shows.
    Who is regarding support for Obama over McCain or Romney as a litmus year of respectability?
    See @SeaShantyIrish2's comment above about Boris Johnson having "(just) enough brains to pretend to support Barack Obama" in contrast with "Rishi Sunak and his fellow CUPer" who are "too stupid to pretend to support Joe Biden".
    I think you might be reading too much into this.

    Go back and read the threads from 2012 and 2008: there was plenty of respect for McCain and Romney on these boards.

    Remember when McCain called Obama a patriot? That's what we've lost. That's what we have to get back.
    Mentioning McCain, I was rather struck by his running mate, Sarah Palin, in the 2022 House races (special and general) in Alaska, and her love-in with the Democrat candidate (and winner) Mary Peltola.

    Admittedly, it was partly because the unusual electoral system in Alaska threw up two GOP candidates (Palin and Begich) so there was a bit of "the enemy of my enemy". But the warmth seemed pretty genuine - Peltola had been in the Alaska senate when Palin was governor, they were apparently pregnant at the same time and just got on genuinely well.

    It isn't impossible, and does still happen a fair bit that there is real respect between opponenents. But it's getting unusual enough to be surprising when the relationship is warm.

    Scalia and Ginsburg was the absolute classic of the genre, of course.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,238
    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,973
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It seems extraordinary for a party leader to publicly say this about an MP in a rival party.


    How is that not blackmail?
    They're both white.
    In original blackmail, the both parties would be white. And probably distant cousins.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,693
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Reading this disc ussion, one would have no idea at all that the Bill was finally passed by 82 to 32 with four abstentions to pass the Hate Crime and Public Order Bill, under a minority SNP administration, or that Labour and the LDs as well as SGs were strong supporters.

    And note that Adam Tomkins quote earlier.

    https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S5M-24322

    You're right of course. The Scottish Tories should be getting a lot more credit for opposing this nonsense, as they should with their opposition to the Gender reform Bill, as they should for the opposition to the Deposit recovery Scheme, etc etc. But they don't. Meanwhile Scottish Labour really don't seem to understand what opposition is about and just hang around hopefully waiting for their turn to come again.
    Still, I’m sure the guys hangin aboot outside Holyrood today are more than willing to give credit to the SCons.



    A question for the ages, where ARE the women without penises of Scotland? Are they like the Entwives, lost in the mists of time and legend?
    Not sure what you think that these people have to do with the Scottish Conservatives.

    And I don't even understand your question. Nice LOTR reference though.
    As you suggest you SCons can’t be too picky, gather ye rosebuds of support while and where ye may.

    It’s not my question, it’s on the placard of one of the protestors against the Hate Crime act (and supporter of Trump by the look of it).
    At least Boris Johnson had (just) enough brains to pretend to support Barack Obama.

    Rishi Sunak and his fellow CUPers are too stupid to pretend to support Joe Biden. Instead, busy dogwhistling their admiration for (and imitation of) their TRUE role model = Donald Trump.
    Obama who was notably weak on Putin?
    Yes, Obama was weak on Putin.

    And we should be more critical of him for it.

    But Obama is not on the ballot. And Obama is not actively hampering the provision of aid to Ukraine.
    As I recall, at the time of the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton was regarded as a hawk on Russia, and there were some who said that they'd vote for Trump to oppose Clinton's warmongering.

    Her judgement has since been vindicated and we're left to wonder what might have been different for Ukraine had Clinton won the 2016 election.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,347

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Reading this disc ussion, one would have no idea at all that the Bill was finally passed by 82 to 32 with four abstentions to pass the Hate Crime and Public Order Bill, under a minority SNP administration, or that Labour and the LDs as well as SGs were strong supporters.

    And note that Adam Tomkins quote earlier.

    https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S5M-24322

    You're right of course. The Scottish Tories should be getting a lot more credit for opposing this nonsense, as they should with their opposition to the Gender reform Bill, as they should for the opposition to the Deposit recovery Scheme, etc etc. But they don't. Meanwhile Scottish Labour really don't seem to understand what opposition is about and just hang around hopefully waiting for their turn to come again.
    Still, I’m sure the guys hangin aboot outside Holyrood today are more than willing to give credit to the SCons.



    A question for the ages, where ARE the women without penises of Scotland? Are they like the Entwives, lost in the mists of time and legend?
    Not sure what you think that these people have to do with the Scottish Conservatives.

    And I don't even understand your question. Nice LOTR reference though.
    As you suggest you SCons can’t be too picky, gather ye rosebuds of support while and where ye may.

    It’s not my question, it’s on the placard of one of the protestors against the Hate Crime act (and supporter of Trump by the look of it).
    At least Boris Johnson had (just) enough brains to pretend to support Barack Obama.

    Rishi Sunak and his fellow CUPers are too stupid to pretend to support Joe Biden. Instead, busy dogwhistling their admiration for (and imitation of) their TRUE role model = Donald Trump.
    Obama who was notably weak on Putin?
    Yes, Obama was weak on Putin.

    And we should be more critical of him for it.

    But Obama is not on the ballot. And Obama is not actively hampering the provision of aid to Ukraine.
    But to regard support for Obama over McCain or Romney as a litmus test of respectability while crusading against 'Putinism' looks like cynical partisan posturing.

    Would a McCain administration have had a 'reset' with Putin after the invasion of Georgia? Hillary Clinton's attempts to ingratiate herself with Sergey Lavrov were a running joke on Russian comedy shows.
    Do you not think the dynamic changed in February 2022? Perhaps it should have in 2014 so yes you have a point, Obama dropped the ball, but it didn't and then Trump spent four years blowing smoke up Putin's rear end.
    This is style over substance. Trump is anathema not because of any particular concessions during his time as President but because of failing to see Putin as a uniquely bad man and for being insufficiently deferential to sophisticated opinion.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,347

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Reading this disc ussion, one would have no idea at all that the Bill was finally passed by 82 to 32 with four abstentions to pass the Hate Crime and Public Order Bill, under a minority SNP administration, or that Labour and the LDs as well as SGs were strong supporters.

    And note that Adam Tomkins quote earlier.

    https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S5M-24322

    You're right of course. The Scottish Tories should be getting a lot more credit for opposing this nonsense, as they should with their opposition to the Gender reform Bill, as they should for the opposition to the Deposit recovery Scheme, etc etc. But they don't. Meanwhile Scottish Labour really don't seem to understand what opposition is about and just hang around hopefully waiting for their turn to come again.
    Still, I’m sure the guys hangin aboot outside Holyrood today are more than willing to give credit to the SCons.



    A question for the ages, where ARE the women without penises of Scotland? Are they like the Entwives, lost in the mists of time and legend?
    Not sure what you think that these people have to do with the Scottish Conservatives.

    And I don't even understand your question. Nice LOTR reference though.
    As you suggest you SCons can’t be too picky, gather ye rosebuds of support while and where ye may.

    It’s not my question, it’s on the placard of one of the protestors against the Hate Crime act (and supporter of Trump by the look of it).
    At least Boris Johnson had (just) enough brains to pretend to support Barack Obama.

    Rishi Sunak and his fellow CUPers are too stupid to pretend to support Joe Biden. Instead, busy dogwhistling their admiration for (and imitation of) their TRUE role model = Donald Trump.
    Obama who was notably weak on Putin?
    Yes, Obama was weak on Putin.

    And we should be more critical of him for it.

    But Obama is not on the ballot. And Obama is not actively hampering the provision of aid to Ukraine.
    As I recall, at the time of the 2016 election, Hillary Clinton was regarded as a hawk on Russia, and there were some who said that they'd vote for Trump to oppose Clinton's warmongering.

    Her judgement has since been vindicated and we're left to wonder what might have been different for Ukraine had Clinton won the 2016 election.
    Perhaps the real 'what if' is if Clinton had won in 2008, not 2016. She was more qualified to be President at that time than Obama was.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,478

    Taz said:

    “Pendle Council has held two debates on Gaza with the most recent in March. That included a fresh call for peace, humanitarian aid, a political solution for Israel and Palestinian states and a proposed 'Homes for Palestinians' scheme similar to UK help for Ukrainians.”

    Why? None of these things are remotely in the control of Pendle council. I’d rather my councillors focus on things they do have control over.
    Yup. I want my council to empty my bins and sort the potholes. Not drone on about bloody Gaza.
    It does help hamstring Starmer and offer opportunity for Rishi though which should float your boat.
    Why would that float my boat, I’ve always voted labour however I am not planning to vote in future apart from in the NE mayoral election and probably for McGuiiness.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048
    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    They can be prescribed as part of proper long term studies.

    At the moment they are not prescribed much but largely because the Tavistock is being closed down and it is very slow starting for the replacement services. In large part gender disordered children are simply not seen on the NHS, leaving many in distress and the rest in the hands of private prescribers.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,310
    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743
    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
    Some of us have be railing against this for years now. In return we get abuse from trans activists claiming we are anti trans. It's about bloody time this tide turned. I'm looking for prosecutions, or at least withdrawal of medical licences, over this.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,934
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    Agree there are no easy answers.
    But I worry we are going to let a genocide happen because of an awful terrorist attack.

    And there are some easy decisions - letting in food aid is an obvious one.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,330
    .

    ...

    Taz said:

    The Israeli regime has destroyed the Iranian consulate Damascus,killing several diplomats and a revolutionary guard commander.

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-hamas-latest-middle-east-live-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800

    Clever from Bibi, draw in Iran, draw in the USA.

    More headaches for Starmer too.
    That's "clever", not clever.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,310
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    Agree there are no easy answers.
    But I worry we are going to let a genocide happen because of an awful terrorist attack.

    And there are some easy decisions - letting in food aid is an obvious one.

    Oh I agree that Israel's hand must be forced on aid. And the UK voted for a ceasefire so it could be delivered. That was right too. But should the war be stopped with Hamas units intact? That's a lot harder.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,330
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    You must have missed the U.S. congressman opining that Israel should take the 'Nagasaki option' and get it over with quickly.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,973
    edited April 1
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Have you noticed the trend of teenage rugby players who look like the Incredible Hulk, aged 16?

    That’s not just 20oz venison steaks with every meal.

    Every sport with money in it, and some without….

    Edit: completely unsurprisingly, the worst seems to be in football academies. Parents and children fighting to make the cut.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700
    Nigelb said:

    .

    ...

    Taz said:

    The Israeli regime has destroyed the Iranian consulate Damascus,killing several diplomats and a revolutionary guard commander.

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-hamas-latest-middle-east-live-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800

    Clever from Bibi, draw in Iran, draw in the USA.

    More headaches for Starmer too.
    That's "clever", not clever.
    It's not a great look.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That should be a striking off matter for the doctor and disqualification for the child.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,750
    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    Agree there are no easy answers.
    But I worry we are going to let a genocide happen because of an awful terrorist attack.

    And there are some easy decisions - letting in food aid is an obvious one.

    If it is the case that civilian population and military forces, logistics and weaponry are in fact intertwined - a matter which the UN folk on the ground must know but are unwilling to talk about - then another 'easy' (there are no easy) solution is UN refugee camps in Egyptian territory where the food aid can be made available quickly.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    You must have missed the U.S. congressman opining that Israel should take the 'Nagasaki option' and get it over with quickly.
    I did but some of those, including the US, who are supportive of Israel, have been slowing them down and dragging this out. Not sure that has helped anyone.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,756
    AP (via Seattle Times) - Donald Trump’s social media company lost $58 million last year. Freshly issued shares tumble

    Less than a week after a flashy stock market debut, Donald Trump’s social media company is disclosing that it lost nearly $58.2 million in 2023.

    Losses in 2023 for Trump Media & Technology Group — whose flagship product is Truth Social — mark a stark decline compared with the profit of $50.5 million that the former president’s company reported for 2022, according to a regulatory filing Monday.

    Revenue for Trump Media topped just over $4.13 million in 2023, the SEC filing shows, although that’s up from $1.47 million in 2022.

    After merging with with a blank-check company called Digital World Acquisition Corp., Trump Media began trading Tuesday on the Nasdaq under ticker symbol DJT. It’s been a volatile ride.

    Trump Media’s shares soared in their first couple days of trading — surpassing $79 at one point Tuesday — but have since fallen closer to their initial offering price of $49.95. As of midday Monday, Trump Media’s stock plunged more than 23% to below $48, meaning a lot of early investors are taking a hit. . . .

    SSI - Doubt that Putin & others wishing to bankroll Donald Trump, for fun AND non-fiscal profit, will give a Siberian hamster's wretched rectum about "DJT" stock price. Since their game is NOT (financial) investing but rather political money laundering.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700
    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
    In my experience, SNP supporters are often of a socially-conservative bent. The nose-holding whilst voting SNP must be extreme - bloody-minded indy determination and the lack of viability of Alba is what will be keeping them going, but the internalised disgust will be strong. That can only result in the end of the Sturgeon/Yousaf/Green nexus in favour of Kate Forbes cleaning the Augean stables, or the end of the SNP.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048
    edited April 1
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That's private medicine for you. Where there is demand there is a prescriber and a grey market.

    There are a million taking anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes in the country.

    https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/uk-anti-doping-tackles-growing-gen-z-steroid-use-bold-digital-campaign

    A lot of them start as children, including girls.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332188/#:~:text=The overall rate of current,, weight-lifting or rugby

    But sure, puberty blockers being prescribed 5 times in Glasgow in a year is the real problem.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,263
    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    Absolute nutjobs ru(i)nning the country.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,750

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.

    "The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant". Mill. On Liberty. Chapter 1.

    I imagine the justification for the new Scottish act is that it prevents harm to others. To my mind it doesn't, and does greater harm. But it is arguable of course.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,275

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    Reading this disc ussion, one would have no idea at all that the Bill was finally passed by 82 to 32 with four abstentions to pass the Hate Crime and Public Order Bill, under a minority SNP administration, or that Labour and the LDs as well as SGs were strong supporters.

    And note that Adam Tomkins quote earlier.

    https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/votes-and-motions/S5M-24322

    You're right of course. The Scottish Tories should be getting a lot more credit for opposing this nonsense, as they should with their opposition to the Gender reform Bill, as they should for the opposition to the Deposit recovery Scheme, etc etc. But they don't. Meanwhile Scottish Labour really don't seem to understand what opposition is about and just hang around hopefully waiting for their turn to come again.
    Still, I’m sure the guys hangin aboot outside Holyrood today are more than willing to give credit to the SCons.



    A question for the ages, where ARE the women without penises of Scotland? Are they like the Entwives, lost in the mists of time and legend?
    Not sure what you think that these people have to do with the Scottish Conservatives.

    And I don't even understand your question. Nice LOTR reference though.
    As you suggest you SCons can’t be too picky, gather ye rosebuds of support while and where ye may.

    It’s not my question, it’s on the placard of one of the protestors against the Hate Crime act (and supporter of Trump by the look of it).
    At least Boris Johnson had (just) enough brains to pretend to support Barack Obama.

    Rishi Sunak and his fellow CUPers are too stupid to pretend to support Joe Biden. Instead, busy dogwhistling their admiration for (and imitation of) their TRUE role model = Donald Trump.
    Obama who was notably weak on Putin?
    Yes, Obama was weak on Putin.

    And we should be more critical of him for it.

    But Obama is not on the ballot. And Obama is not actively hampering the provision of aid to Ukraine.
    But to regard support for Obama over McCain or Romney as a litmus test of respectability while crusading against 'Putinism' looks like cynical partisan posturing.

    Would a McCain administration have had a 'reset' with Putin after the invasion of Georgia? Hillary Clinton's attempts to ingratiate herself with Sergey Lavrov were a running joke on Russian comedy shows.
    Do you not think the dynamic changed in February 2022? Perhaps it should have in 2014 so yes you have a point, Obama dropped the ball, but it didn't and then Trump spent four years blowing smoke up Putin's rear end.
    This is style over substance. Trump is anathema not because of any particular concessions during his time as President but because of failing to see Putin as a uniquely bad man and for being insufficiently deferential to sophisticated opinion.
    he was trying to blackmail Ukraine ffs. 'no particular concessions my big arse'
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,815

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    As relevant today as it has ever been. Here is a snippet...

    "...there is also in the world at large an increasing inclination to stretch unduly the powers of society over the individual, both by the force of opinion and even by that of legislation... this encroachment is not one of the evils which tend spontaneously to disappear, but, on the contrary, to grow more and more formidable."

    Quite.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,073
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That should be a striking off matter for the doctor and disqualification for the child.
    It’s a reason why we have won more than our fair share of Olympic medals over the last few years. Personally, I would prefer fewer medals and fewer damaged children.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,433
    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    Perhaps if you’d spent an ounce of the outrage you feel about a country in which you don’t live, a party for which you can’t vote for or against and which doesn’t govern you, on the governments you do elect and therefore inflict on my country, we’d all be in a better place.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,073
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    They can be prescribed as part of proper long term studies.

    At the moment they are not prescribed much but largely because the Tavistock is being closed down and it is very slow starting for the replacement services. In large part gender disordered children are simply not seen on the NHS, leaving many in distress and the rest in the hands of private prescribers.
    O/T well done the Foxes, Foxy.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,756
    With respect to the Great (in one sense anyway) Trans Debate, what is state of reasonably-current polling on this allegedly burning issue?

    Is it really outraging masses of voter? Though of course, doesn't need to motivate large numbers, just enough to make a difference in marginal constituencies.

    For example, as with state elections in Virginia in 2021.

    However, worth noting that plenty of VA voters thought that when GOPers were banging on (ahem) re: making things better for students, they meant actual education NOT restroom policing.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    They can be prescribed as part of proper long term studies.

    At the moment they are not prescribed much but largely because the Tavistock is being closed down and it is very slow starting for the replacement services. In large part gender disordered children are simply not seen on the NHS, leaving many in distress and the rest in the hands of private prescribers.
    Thankfully, their distress is growing a bit less likely to result in permanent disfigurement that they may come to regret bitterly.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,561
    Frank Booth wrote:"I see there have been no more attacks on Russian oil refineries since the US urged Ukraine to stop what had been a highly successful series of strikes."

    Evidence? From named sources?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,310
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That's private medicine for you. Where there is demand there is a prescriber and a grey market.

    There are a million taking anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes in the country.

    https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/uk-anti-doping-tackles-growing-gen-z-steroid-use-bold-digital-campaign

    A lot of them start as children, including girls.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332188/#:~:text=The overall rate of current,, weight-lifting or rugby

    But sure, puberty blockers being prescribed 5 times in Glasgow in a year is the real problem.
    Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more puberty blockers prescribed out of parental desire for sporting glory than for for body dysmorphia. (Albeit my knowledge is entirely pushy North London parents.)
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,756

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That should be a striking off matter for the doctor and disqualification for the child.
    It’s a reason why we have won more than our fair share of Olympic medals over the last few years. Personally, I would prefer fewer medals and fewer damaged children.
    Same situation on this side of the Atlantic (and the Pacific). And feeling is mutual.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    They can be prescribed as part of proper long term studies.

    At the moment they are not prescribed much but largely because the Tavistock is being closed down and it is very slow starting for the replacement services. In large part gender disordered children are simply not seen on the NHS, leaving many in distress and the rest in the hands of private prescribers.
    Thankfully, their distress is growing a bit less likely to result in permanent disfigurement that they may come to regret bitterly.
    That is only weighing the possible downside and ignoring the potential benefits.

    It is a political analysis, not a medical or scientific one.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,433
    Bad Hamas using hostages as bargaining chips.

    Oh.


  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,347
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    I knew Tumblr was a problem, but not tumbling.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700
    edited April 1
    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    Hobbes is the one who stuck with me the most.

    But I agree with everyone's positive posts on Mill - my recollection was of it feeling very fresh still. Unlike the works of his contemporaries like Carlyle etc. which have dated badly.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    They can be prescribed as part of proper long term studies.

    At the moment they are not prescribed much but largely because the Tavistock is being closed down and it is very slow starting for the replacement services. In large part gender disordered children are simply not seen on the NHS, leaving many in distress and the rest in the hands of private prescribers.
    O/T well done the Foxes, Foxy.
    Yes, we looked nervous initially and it all looked as if it would go wrong again when Norwich scored from a corner, but after the equaliser Norwich didn't get back in the game.

    It's going to be a tense last 7 games.
  • Options
    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,073

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
    In my experience, SNP supporters are often of a socially-conservative bent. The nose-holding whilst voting SNP must be extreme - bloody-minded indy determination and the lack of viability of Alba is what will be keeping them going, but the internalised disgust will be strong. That can only result in the end of the Sturgeon/Yousaf/Green nexus in favour of Kate Forbes cleaning the Augean stables, or the end of the SNP.
    Well summed up! There are a few things holding back Alba. Sturgeon’s attempted assassination of Salmond has had long lasting repercussions. Alba’s internal democracy is not much better than the SNP’s. Alba receives no media coverage.

    The optimal solution for those of us who are Scottish nationalists but haven’t moved to the left under Sturgeon and Yousaf would be for Kate Forbes and Fergus Ewing to reclaim the party and for the SNP left to merge with the Greens, with whom they have much in common.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,347

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    Hobbes is the one who stuck with me the most.

    But I agree with everyone's positive posts on Mill - my recollection was of it feeling very fresh still. Unlike the works of Carlyle etc. which have dated badly.
    Mill had very non-PC views on minority nationalities.

    “Experience proves that it is possible for one nationality to merge and be absorbed in another: and when it was originally an inferior and more backward portion of the human race the absorption is greatly to its advantage.

    “Nobody can suppose that it is not more beneficial to a Breton, or a Basque of French Navarre, to be brought into the current of the ideas and feelings of a highly civilized and cultivated people — to be a member of the French nationality, admitted on equal terms to all the privileges of French citizenship, sharing the advantages of French protection, and the dignity and prestige of French power — than to sulk on his own rocks, the half-savage relic of past times, revolving in his own little mental orbit, without participation or interest in the general movement of the world.

    “The same remark applies to the Welshman or the Scottish Highlander as members of the British nation.”
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,783
    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    Hobbes is the one who stuck with me the most.

    But I agree with everyone's positive posts on Mill - my recollection was of it feeling very fresh still. Unlike the works of his contemporaries like Carlyle etc. which have dated badly.
    Rawls for me but a lot of his thinking is based on Mills. "Liberty lies in the rights of that person whose views you find most odious." Timeless.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
    In my experience, SNP supporters are often of a socially-conservative bent. The nose-holding whilst voting SNP must be extreme - bloody-minded indy determination and the lack of viability of Alba is what will be keeping them going, but the internalised disgust will be strong. That can only result in the end of the Sturgeon/Yousaf/Green nexus in favour of Kate Forbes cleaning the Augean stables, or the end of the SNP.
    Well summed up! There are a few things holding back Alba. Sturgeon’s attempted assassination of Salmond has had long lasting repercussions. Alba’s internal democracy is not much better than the SNP’s. Alba receives no media coverage.

    The optimal solution for those of us who are Scottish nationalists but haven’t moved to the left under Sturgeon and Yousaf would be for Kate Forbes and Fergus Ewing to reclaim the party and for the SNP left to merge with the Greens, with whom they have much in common.
    I agree, that would be positive. I am not a supporter of independence, but I am a supporter of good government of any stripe, and Kate Forbes looks a mile better for everyone in Scotland than the current set of gargoyles.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,815
    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    I'm certainly enjoying Mill (and prior to him Hume) a heck of a lot more than Marx.

    However, Marx does have one stylistic trait that I appreciate. Basically, X is Y, Y is X.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,153

    ...

    Taz said:

    The Israeli regime has destroyed the Iranian consulate Damascus,killing several diplomats and a revolutionary guard commander.

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-hamas-latest-middle-east-live-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800

    Clever from Bibi, draw in Iran, draw in the USA.

    More headaches for Starmer too.
    If that's Netanyahu being clever ...
  • Options

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    @bigjohnowls SKS must resign!
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,478

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Lib Dems losing here.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    I'm certainly enjoying Mill (and prior to him Hume) a heck of a lot more than Marx.

    However, Marx does have one stylistic trait that I appreciate. Basically, X is Y, Y is X.
    He could be snappy. I always liked: "“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,651

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Broken, sleazy Greens and LibDems on the slide!
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,561
    Off topic, but important: "Ukraine has rejected claims that a series of strikes on Russian oil refineries risks alienating its Western allies, with senior officials in Kyiv insisting the country is well within its rights to target Moscow’s lucrative fossil fuels industry.

    Mykhailo Podolyak, adviser to the office of Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said the government has not received calls from the United States asking Ukraine to halt attacks on Russian energy infrastructure."
    source: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/22/ukraine-says-west-not-pressuring-it-to-end-attacks-on-russian-oil-facilities-00148673

    Was the original Financial Times story Putin disinformation? Possibly.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Lib Dems losing here.
    Why are you posting an off topic comment?

    [Joke alert]
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,561
    edited April 1
    On topic: Thanks much to Cyclefree for her consistent support for justice.

    One observation: I have thought for some time that the ferocity of some "trans" activists may be a result of them having doubts about their own argument.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
    In my experience, SNP supporters are often of a socially-conservative bent. The nose-holding whilst voting SNP must be extreme - bloody-minded indy determination and the lack of viability of Alba is what will be keeping them going, but the internalised disgust will be strong. That can only result in the end of the Sturgeon/Yousaf/Green nexus in favour of Kate Forbes cleaning the Augean stables, or the end of the SNP.
    Well summed up! There are a few things holding back Alba. Sturgeon’s attempted assassination of Salmond has had long lasting repercussions. Alba’s internal democracy is not much better than the SNP’s. Alba receives no media coverage.

    The optimal solution for those of us who are Scottish nationalists but haven’t moved to the left under Sturgeon and Yousaf would be for Kate Forbes and Fergus Ewing to reclaim the party and for the SNP left to merge with the Greens, with whom they have much in common.
    I agree, that would be positive. I am not a supporter of independence, but I am a supporter of good government of any stripe, and Kate Forbes looks a mile better for everyone in Scotland than the current set of gargoyles.
    I am ambivalent. Forbes strikes me as someone who could, given time, deliver independence because she would work hard to get her economic ducks in a row first. I obviously don't want independence but Scotland is sorely in need of some competent government and I don't see many other contenders. The lack of talent in Westminster is marked but Scotland, words fail me.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    I'm certainly enjoying Mill (and prior to him Hume) a heck of a lot more than Marx.

    However, Marx does have one stylistic trait that I appreciate. Basically, X is Y, Y is X.
    He could be snappy. I always liked: "“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
    Sadly I don't believe in the traditional interpretation of hell any more, but if there were one, he'd have VIP tickets with meet and greet.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,934
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    Agree there are no easy answers.
    But I worry we are going to let a genocide happen because of an awful terrorist attack.

    And there are some easy decisions - letting in food aid is an obvious one.

    Oh I agree that Israel's hand must be forced on aid. And the UK voted for a ceasefire so it could be delivered. That was right too. But should the war be stopped with Hamas units intact? That's a lot harder.
    I don't know what intact means, but I don't think it's possible to kill all enemy soldiers. Even if they did, Israel's recent actions surely guarantee more volunteers in future.

    I think Israel could withdraw to its border, fortify, be a bit more vigilant, and prevent any such Oct 7 atrocity happening again.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Lab majority of 386. LibDems on 51 the official opposition.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=22&LAB=46&LIB=10&Reform=14&Green=5&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=35&SCOTLIB=7.5&SCOTReform=2&SCOTGreen=1&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=33&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase

  • Options

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Broken, sleazy Greens and LibDems on the slide!
    Thank you for yet another original reply.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,815

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Ed Davey fans please explain.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048
    edited April 1

    On topic: Thanks much to Cyclefree for her consistent support for justice.

    One observation: I have thought for some time that the ferocity of some "trans" activists may be a result of them having doubts about their own argument.

    That maybe so, but I suspect much of the anti-Trans ferocity of middle aged males may well be fear of emasculation and suppressed fears over their own sexuality.

    It works both ways.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,238
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That's private medicine for you. Where there is demand there is a prescriber and a grey market.

    There are a million taking anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes in the country.

    https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/uk-anti-doping-tackles-growing-gen-z-steroid-use-bold-digital-campaign

    A lot of them start as children, including girls.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332188/#:~:text=The overall rate of current,, weight-lifting or rugby

    But sure, puberty blockers being prescribed 5 times in Glasgow in a year is the real problem.
    Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more puberty blockers prescribed out of parental desire for sporting glory than for for body dysmorphia. (Albeit my knowledge is entirely pushy North London parents.)
    Pause

    Pause

    How many pushy North London parents do you know who are obtaining prescriptions for puberty blockers for their pubertal children so those children can compete in sport? And when did they tell you this?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,893
    Maybe sort of on topic. I'm more concerned that West Lothian Council has closed three of of its six swimming pools in the last year.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324

    On topic: Thanks much to Cyclefree for her consistent support for justice.

    One observation: I have thought for some time that the ferocity of some "trans" activists may be a result of them having doubts about their own argument.

    That's a fine statement; as long as you also ignore the ferocity of some anti-trans activists...
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,048

    Oh dear.

    SKS fans please explain

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 March):

    Labour 46% (+4)
    Conservative 22% (–)
    Reform UK 14% (–)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (-2)
    Green 5% (-1)
    Scottish National Party 3% (+1)
    Other 2% (–)

    Changes +/- 24 March


    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1774829082296889429

    Ed Davey fans please explain.
    I think he could console himself with the LOTO position 😉

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,310
    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That's private medicine for you. Where there is demand there is a prescriber and a grey market.

    There are a million taking anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes in the country.

    https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/uk-anti-doping-tackles-growing-gen-z-steroid-use-bold-digital-campaign

    A lot of them start as children, including girls.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332188/#:~:text=The overall rate of current,, weight-lifting or rugby

    But sure, puberty blockers being prescribed 5 times in Glasgow in a year is the real problem.
    Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more puberty blockers prescribed out of parental desire for sporting glory than for for body dysmorphia. (Albeit my knowledge is entirely pushy North London parents.)
    Pause

    Pause

    How many pushy North London parents do you know who are obtaining prescriptions for puberty blockers for their pubertal children so those children can compete in sport? And when did they tell you this?
    Hampstead drunken dinner party discussion. One set of parents were doing it, another talked of one of their daughter's friends.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,815
    Every time I use the facilities at Leeds City Railway Station, I can stroll straight into the Gents, while women are queueing out the door to use the Ladies.

    Why any bloke would want to self identity as female under these circumstances is beyond be.

    N.B. Leeds. Not Edinburgh Waverley.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324
    Off-topic:

    Below is a rather brilliant video by someone who graphed Wikipedia, and some of the stuff he found. It goes into the world of orphans, dead ends, disguised dead end orphans, fanta cake and a family of English politicians in the 1300s...

    Wikipedia is wonderful.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JheGL6uSF-4
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,183
    edited April 1
    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    Puberty blockers have a number of medical uses.

    [Edit} I'd have thought even the DT would consider some of them valid.

  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,700
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    An utter scandal, abusing some of the most vulnerable in our society. Prescribing puberty blockers to children is just appalling. The current against this is very strong but Scotland knows best. Apparently.
    In my experience, SNP supporters are often of a socially-conservative bent. The nose-holding whilst voting SNP must be extreme - bloody-minded indy determination and the lack of viability of Alba is what will be keeping them going, but the internalised disgust will be strong. That can only result in the end of the Sturgeon/Yousaf/Green nexus in favour of Kate Forbes cleaning the Augean stables, or the end of the SNP.
    Well summed up! There are a few things holding back Alba. Sturgeon’s attempted assassination of Salmond has had long lasting repercussions. Alba’s internal democracy is not much better than the SNP’s. Alba receives no media coverage.

    The optimal solution for those of us who are Scottish nationalists but haven’t moved to the left under Sturgeon and Yousaf would be for Kate Forbes and Fergus Ewing to reclaim the party and for the SNP left to merge with the Greens, with whom they have much in common.
    I agree, that would be positive. I am not a supporter of independence, but I am a supporter of good government of any stripe, and Kate Forbes looks a mile better for everyone in Scotland than the current set of gargoyles.
    I am ambivalent. Forbes strikes me as someone who could, given time, deliver independence because she would work hard to get her economic ducks in a row first. I obviously don't want independence but Scotland is sorely in need of some competent government and I don't see many other contenders. The lack of talent in Westminster is marked but Scotland, words fail me.
    I have never believed in that zero sum sort of thinking that would favour a crap SNP because it harms indy. The sort of 'things have to get worse before they get better' approach. Good leads to good. Bad leads to bad. If Scotland is governed well by someone who understands how economies work, it could have all sorts of benefits for the whole country - perhaps it would lead to Scotland seeking a prosperous future un-shackled by the UK; perhaps it would lead to Scotland being a shining example that leads the rest of the UK away from the path to bankruptcy. Who knows? Let's just embrace positive developments wherever they come from.
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,561
    Is the Loser losing supporters? "Now, as Trump and Biden prepare for a rematch, Trump’s vaunted small-dollar fundraising operation is not bringing in as much money as it once did.

    In 2020, Trump and his fundraising committees raised a record $626.6 million from small-dollar donors, 35 percent more than Biden took in from that group.

    But last year, Trump raised just $51 million from small donors, way down from the $119 million he registered in 2019 and only 18 percent more than Biden’s total. His small-dollar haul — which includes donations of $200 or less — was not nearly enough to offset Biden’s lead among major donors."

    Source$:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/01/trump-republican-small-donations-problems/
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,750
    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    While I agree with Mill about this on the whole, at least about conclusions, I am in difficulties with his utilitarianism; and of course he assumes the universal application of a particular sort, school and tradition of thought - that of a western enlightenment. The extent to which this has been under attack in the last 70 years or so, both culturally and intellectually is remarkable. I imagine many youjbnger people in the west just don't think that way.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,238

    With respect to the Great (in one sense anyway) Trans Debate, what is state of reasonably-current polling on this allegedly burning issue?

    Is it really outraging masses of voter? Though of course, doesn't need to motivate large numbers, just enough to make a difference in marginal constituencies.

    For example, as with state elections in Virginia in 2021.

    However, worth noting that plenty of VA voters thought that when GOPers were banging on (ahem) re: making things better for students, they meant actual education NOT restroom policing.

    Wrt USA politics, the issue tends to be subsumed into the abortion debate. As anti-abortion Republicans are also anti-trans (mostly), the one is not independent of the other and polling for the former can (I think!) be taken as a proxy for the latter.

    Wrt UK politics, there is no groundswell for anti-abortion legislation so the trans issue stands alone. When given a list of things people rate it low on their list of priorities, but some suggest that concern for education may be a mask for it. It seems to be a issue that engenders (hah!) great feeling amongst a smaller number of people, so assessing electoral salience will be a bit of a nightmare. Combined with the unreliability of polling prior to the election campaign, the honest answer is "I don't know"

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324
    Messi had growth hormone injections in his legs when he was 12 (allegedly for health reasons, my guess would be for sporting ones).

    I had growth hormone injections (*) in one ankle when I was a teenager. Does that make me a half-Messi? ;)

    (*) At the same time that the infected blood scandal was going on. I dodged a bullet there...
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,267
    edited April 1
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That should be a striking off matter for the doctor and disqualification for the child.
    How is it not child abuse? And shouldn't action be taken against the parents? After all parents who allow FGM on their daughters are prosecuted. Why should giving harmful and unnecessary drugs to your daughters be treated differently?
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,815
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That's private medicine for you. Where there is demand there is a prescriber and a grey market.

    There are a million taking anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes in the country.

    https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/uk-anti-doping-tackles-growing-gen-z-steroid-use-bold-digital-campaign

    A lot of them start as children, including girls.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332188/#:~:text=The overall rate of current,, weight-lifting or rugby

    But sure, puberty blockers being prescribed 5 times in Glasgow in a year is the real problem.
    Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more puberty blockers prescribed out of parental desire for sporting glory than for for body dysmorphia. (Albeit my knowledge is entirely pushy North London parents.)
    Pause

    Pause

    How many pushy North London parents do you know who are obtaining prescriptions for puberty blockers for their pubertal children so those children can compete in sport? And when did they tell you this?
    Hampstead drunken dinner party discussion. One set of parents were doing it, another talked of one of their daughter's friends.
    You should contact NSPCC.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,324
    FF43 said:

    Maybe sort of on topic. I'm more concerned that West Lothian Council has closed three of of its six swimming pools in the last year.

    I'm seeing loads of reports of swimming pools closing, or remaining closed. The Oasis in Bedford seems to be having problems.

    I'm lucky in that I have four swimming pools within a twenty or twenty-five minute drive of me; I'm a member of the organisation that runs three of them. Some are busy, others not so much.

    One question I have: AIUI schools have to provide swimming lessons for kids at certain ages. If a local pool closes, does that mean they have to travel further? And how does that reduce availability for non-schools swimmers? Or can schools opt out of the swimming classes?
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,750

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    I'm certainly enjoying Mill (and prior to him Hume) a heck of a lot more than Marx.

    However, Marx does have one stylistic trait that I appreciate. Basically, X is Y, Y is X.
    Have you tried Kant's first Critique? This has a readability score of 0% and a philosophical significance of 100%. (Unlike Hegel who scores approximately 0% in both categories).
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,607
    Interesting Opinion commissioned by Wings over Scotland.

    The bigger question being why is a website I believe dedicated to Scottish Independence so concerned with the hoo-haa around who calls themselves a woman.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,815
    algarkirk said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    While I agree with Mill about this on the whole, at least about conclusions, I am in difficulties with his utilitarianism; and of course he assumes the universal application of a particular sort, school and tradition of thought - that of a western enlightenment. The extent to which this has been under attack in the last 70 years or so, both culturally and intellectually is remarkable. I imagine many youjbnger people in the west just don't think that way.
    He puts forward a decent case for his version of utilitarianism, which differs from that of Bentham, and addresses many of the criticisms put forward by opponents. I'm not saying he's on the money, but makes it harder to argue against.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,824
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh for those blithe, innocent days when there were screeches of outrage at the suggestion that the IDF might strike a hospital.



    They don't like universities either. Every prerequisite for a modern state has been razed in Gaza.

    https://theintercept.com/2024/02/09/deconstructed-gaza-university-education/

    Sometimes they film their barbarism:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-68138210
    You know, I hate this. I really wish it wasn't happening. But what do you do when Hamas using its governing power to integrate all of its defence structures into the key infrastructure of their people knowing it is a win win for them. If Israel leaves these bases intact that's a win and if they don't, that's a win too. Because, let's face it Hamas doesn't give a flying f*** about its own people.
    Do you really think this is still a military operation?

    Seems clear to me the goal is a) revenge on all Palestinians (hence no food aid) and b) to expel the Palestinians from Gaza.
    Its both. There are 2 intact Hamas battalions in Rafah. Israel wants to destroy them but they are hiding amongst the best part of a million refugees. There are undoubtedly tunnels under these hospitals and the University. The claims that there weren't have been proved false time and again. But there are also lots of highly vulnerable people on top of them and the future of a micro state to think about. There are no easy or simplistic answers to this. There just aren't.
    Agree there are no easy answers.
    But I worry we are going to let a genocide happen because of an awful terrorist attack.

    And there are some easy decisions - letting in food aid is an obvious one.

    Oh I agree that Israel's hand must be forced on aid. And the UK voted for a ceasefire so it could be delivered. That was right too. But should the war be stopped with Hamas units intact? That's a lot harder.
    Its not that hard: no.

    The destruction of Hamas must proceed at pace, as should ensuring food reaches those who are hungry.

    Stalling and starving everyone is not an alternative to destroying Hamas.

    Razing every building that Hamas have built tunnels under and destroying those tunnels is entirely legitimate. If that means razing every government or public building in Gaza then that's Hamas' fault.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,238
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    On topic...

    I have just read Chapter 1 of J.S. Mill's "On Liberty" (What else would I be doing on a damp Bank Holiday Monday?)

    I suggest that Humza and his mates take a read, and reflect.

    I read it at uni. I have precisely zero recollection of it. Wrote a report on it. I remember thinking it had held up well.
    My son, who is doing PPE at Oxford, is a real fan. I enjoyed it when doing Jurisprudence at University. Superb clarity of thought.
    Hobbes is the one who stuck with me the most.

    But I agree with everyone's positive posts on Mill - my recollection was of it feeling very fresh still. Unlike the works of his contemporaries like Carlyle etc. which have dated badly.
    Rawls for me but a lot of his thinking is based on Mills. "Liberty lies in the rights of that person whose views you find most odious." Timeless.
    Given the Online Safety Act, Gove's Extremism guidance, Humza's Hate Monster Act, and other bits of illiberal thingies over the past five years, the settled will of the British people seems to be to throw JSM out of the window onto the spikes below and spend the rest of time arguing about the details of what speech should be suppressed and when. I didn't invent the #PBfreespeech hashtag for nothing. JSM is a prophet without honour in his own land.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,904
    Chris said:

    ...

    Taz said:

    The Israeli regime has destroyed the Iranian consulate Damascus,killing several diplomats and a revolutionary guard commander.

    https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-hamas-latest-middle-east-live-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800

    Clever from Bibi, draw in Iran, draw in the USA.

    More headaches for Starmer too.
    If that's Netanyahu being clever ...
    I think the point is Iran won't be drawn in. It prefers to sacrifice Palestinians, Lebanese and Yemenis for its cause.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,663
    I used to be a bit of a fan of J K Rowling - the person, not the books. However, that is changing. It strikes me that her latest output on the trans issue in relation to the new Scottish Act is unnecessarily provocative, and her invitation for the police to arrest her is puerile.

    She is becoming little better than the extremists on the other side of the argument. Surely she could make her case equally forcefully but without resorting to such quite personal attacks on those who disagree with her?
  • Options
    BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 1,206
    edited April 1

    I used to be a bit of a fan of J K Rowling - the person, not the books. However, that is changing. It strikes me that her latest output on the trans issue in relation to the new Scottish Act is unnecessarily provocative, and her invitation for the police to arrest her is puerile.

    She is becoming little better than the extremists on the other side of the argument. Surely she could make her case equally forcefully but without resorting to such quite personal attacks on those who disagree with her?

    Her entire MO has been to be as provocative and nasty as possible. I actually agree with a lot of what she says and I think she has been treated very badly - but there is no smoke without fire.

    I am sure she regrets ever wading into this row. She could just have sat it all out and been known as the writer of Harry Potter.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,584
    Cyclefree said:


    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That should be a striking off matter for the doctor and disqualification for the child.
    How is it not child abuse? And shouldn't action be taken against the parents? After all parents who allow FGM on their daughters are prosecuted. Why should giving harmful and unnecessary drugs to your daughters be treated differently?
    Oh I agree. But if growth hormones were all on the banned list for athletes this would stop.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,824
    Well done Israel for taking the fight to kill a Quds commander in the Iranian consulate.

    I assume those who have been condemning Israel for fighting Hamas in Gaza but not fighting Iran or Qatar are giving credit where its due today?
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,238
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    (A pedant writes: puberty blockers are not "illegal" in England. They are not prescribed by NHS England. No law forbids them. As has been often observed, the English look to their government and institutions for guidance and interpret such guidance as law, despite the two being conceptually different)
    Indeed, puberty blockers are still being prescribed to aspiring gymnasts in the UK. But that's another story.
    I've never heard of that outside the Soviet bloc, Rumania , East Germany, Russia and rumours about China. I am shocked and appalled that that is happening here.
    Pushy parents and private doctors. It's more common than you think.
    That's private medicine for you. Where there is demand there is a prescriber and a grey market.

    There are a million taking anabolic steroids for non-medical purposes in the country.

    https://www.ukad.org.uk/news/uk-anti-doping-tackles-growing-gen-z-steroid-use-bold-digital-campaign

    A lot of them start as children, including girls.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1332188/#:~:text=The overall rate of current,, weight-lifting or rugby

    But sure, puberty blockers being prescribed 5 times in Glasgow in a year is the real problem.
    Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more puberty blockers prescribed out of parental desire for sporting glory than for for body dysmorphia. (Albeit my knowledge is entirely pushy North London parents.)
    Pause

    Pause

    How many pushy North London parents do you know who are obtaining prescriptions for puberty blockers for their pubertal children so those children can compete in sport? And when did they tell you this?
    Hampstead drunken dinner party discussion. One set of parents were doing it, another talked of one of their daughter's friends.
    I don't go to dinner parties but I do go to various conferences courtesy of a portfolio career. On those occasions where I have to socialise with the rich, an inherent shyness means I have to get drunk first and then leave before I vom. Given that the conversation of the wealthy tends to revolve around material things this is not a problem for me (and hopefully not for them either). I would never in a thousand years imagine that the rich would give little Tamsin blockers so boobs would not get in the way of gymnastics, and even less that they would let that slip whilst drunk. We mix in different worlds... ☹️
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,890

    Stocky said:

    Wings over Scotland has received detailed legal opinion regarding the Hate Crime Bill. https://wingsoverscotland.com/a-thousand-paper-cranes/
    What do you think of the opinion, lawyers? @Cyclefree, @DavidL, @TSE and others?

    This hate law is a good opportunity for the Scottish Tories I'd say - Labour is unlikely to mount a full-throated campaign against this abomination of a law, so that leaves the Tories mopping up anyone who doesn't want to live in a George Orwell book.
    A further SNP outrage: prescribing puberty blockers is now illegal in England - but not in Scotland.

    Is this what devolution was meant to lead to?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/13/snp-putting-children-at-risk-refusing-ban-puberty-blockers/
    Perhaps if you’d spent an ounce of the outrage you feel about a country in which you don’t live, a party for which you can’t vote for or against and which doesn’t govern you, on the governments you do elect and therefore inflict on my country, we’d all be in a better place.
    Perhaps if a country I don't live in claims its absurd laws apply to me if I post something and it happens to be read by someone in your country......
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,824

    I used to be a bit of a fan of J K Rowling - the person, not the books. However, that is changing. It strikes me that her latest output on the trans issue in relation to the new Scottish Act is unnecessarily provocative, and her invitation for the police to arrest her is puerile.

    She is becoming little better than the extremists on the other side of the argument. Surely she could make her case equally forcefully but without resorting to such quite personal attacks on those who disagree with her?

    How is it provocative at all? Seemed entirely measured and reasonable.

    Given that people have been calling for her to be arrested when this authoritarian law comes into force, stepping up for free speech is something every liberal should applaud.

    Free speech means nothing if you want those who say things you dislike to be arrested. Nobody should ever face being arrested for someone else disliking what was said.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,607

    I used to be a bit of a fan of J K Rowling - the person, not the books. However, that is changing. It strikes me that her latest output on the trans issue in relation to the new Scottish Act is unnecessarily provocative, and her invitation for the police to arrest her is puerile.

    She is becoming little better than the extremists on the other side of the argument. Surely she could make her case equally forcefully but without resorting to such quite personal attacks on those who disagree with her?

    Needless to say, it's complicated (obvs) but I admire JK Rowling for putting forward a view that she believes is valid and with some merit (the "other" argument has merit also).

    But my admiration for her notwithstanding, I liked this one:


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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,739
    edited April 1
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting Opinion commissioned by Wings over Scotland.

    The bigger question being why is a website I believe dedicated to Scottish Independence so concerned with the hoo-haa around who calls themselves a woman.

    Has it become a front in the SNP/Alba war?
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,663

    I used to be a bit of a fan of J K Rowling - the person, not the books. However, that is changing. It strikes me that her latest output on the trans issue in relation to the new Scottish Act is unnecessarily provocative, and her invitation for the police to arrest her is puerile.

    She is becoming little better than the extremists on the other side of the argument. Surely she could make her case equally forcefully but without resorting to such quite personal attacks on those who disagree with her?

    How is it provocative at all? Seemed entirely measured and reasonable.

    Given that people have been calling for her to be arrested when this authoritarian law comes into force, stepping up for free speech is something every liberal should applaud.

    Free speech means nothing if you want those who say things you dislike to be arrested. Nobody should ever face being arrested for someone else disliking what was said.
    That reads as a response to something I didn't say.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,973
    edited April 1

    On topic: Thanks much to Cyclefree for her consistent support for justice.

    One observation: I have thought for some time that the ferocity of some "trans" activists may be a result of them having doubts about their own argument.

    The most aggressive anti-TERF rhetoric reminds me of the style of supporters of Andrew Tate towards women.

    Violent, threatening mansplaining at about 14/10
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