Sunak should just name the date now, be it October 17, November 14, January 25, or whatever. If he doesn't end the speculation soon it will kill whatever minute chances he has.
Presumably he wanted to keep a May election option open in case of a budget bounce. But that's tanked so it's going to be the autumn. (I assume even he's not stupid enough to hold out for December or January.)
Is there anything to be gained by keeping Labour guessing? No - they are surely prepared for all possible dates. Conversely, it's hard to see a leadership challenge once he's neamed the GE date and the Tories are in campaign mode.
In the meantime, by not naming a date he is going to face constant corrosive speculation about it.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
That's OK, because it's unlikely that there be any more fiscal headroom for another bribe tax cut anyway.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
Sunak should just name the date now, be it October 17, November 14, January 25, or whatever. If he doesn't end the speculation soon it will kill whatever minute chances he has.
Presumably he wanted to keep a May election option open in case of a budget bounce. But that's tanked so it's going to be the autumn. (I assume even he's not stupid enough to hold out for December or January.)
Is there anything to be gained by keeping Labour guessing? No - they are surely prepared for all possible dates. Conversely, it's hard to see a leadership challenge once he's neamed the GE date and the Tories are in campaign mode.
In the meantime, by not naming a date he is going to face constant corrosive speculation about it.
Yes, I think that's a decent plan. Call if for 17 Oct now (or another day before the summer recess). Get ahead of it.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
That's OK, because it's unlikely that there be any more fiscal headroom for another bribe tax cut anyway.
Yes, I think the Tories may have to fall back on a cry of "elect us for tax cuts next year".
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
That's OK, because it's unlikely that there be any more fiscal headroom for another bribe tax cut anyway.
Which means another 500,000 or so households will have less money having had to remortgage with nothing more to easy the pain.
Rishi really hasn't thought things through - hes hoping something will come up when in reality the only things on the horizon are more likely to be bad rather than good news
I seem to recall certain Republicans pretending to think the unelected Head of State should get involved in political matters around the time of the prorogation case, but I'm happy to agree that His Majesty should take every step to have no part in, influence on, or involvement in, the decision of when the PM will ask for a GE (in the 'cannot really so no' sense of asking).
I seem to recall certain Republicans pretending to think the unelected Head of State should get involved in political matters around the time of the prorogation case, but I'm happy to agree that His Majesty should take every step to have no part in, influence on, or involvement in, the decision of when the PM will ask for a GE (in the 'cannot really so no' sense of asking).
That wasn't the issue with the prorogation crisis, the Queen being party to an unlawful act was the issue.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
Sunak should just name the date now, be it October 17, November 14, January 25, or whatever. If he doesn't end the speculation soon it will kill whatever minute chances he has.
Presumably he wanted to keep a May election option open in case of a budget bounce. But that's tanked so it's going to be the autumn. (I assume even he's not stupid enough to hold out for December or January.)
Is there anything to be gained by keeping Labour guessing? No - they are surely prepared for all possible dates. Conversely, it's hard to see a leadership challenge once he's neamed the GE date and the Tories are in campaign mode.
In the meantime, by not naming a date he is going to face constant corrosive speculation about it.
Yes, I think that's a decent plan. Call if for 17 Oct now (or another day before the summer recess). Get ahead of it.
FWIW I think that is what will happen, before the summer, for a date in September.
Let us say the Tories have a tiny chance of winning (I think it's zero actually). They need a long 'campaign' lead time to have any chance, as a short campaign won't change anything. Starmer is neither May nor Jezza. The Tories need time, luck, several Black swans and a miracle.
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
I'm not sure if they do or not - they serve at His Majesty's pleasure, and if the outcome of an election does not change who has the confidence of the House, is there an actual requirement to re-up as it were? They don't actually serve terms after all.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
I seem to recall certain Republicans pretending to think the unelected Head of State should get involved in political matters around the time of the prorogation case, but I'm happy to agree that His Majesty should take every step to have no part in, influence on, or involvement in, the decision of when the PM will ask for a GE (in the 'cannot really so no' sense of asking).
That wasn't the issue with the prorogation crisis, the Queen being party to an unlawful act was the issue.
King Charles III going overseas isn't unlawful.
Sure it wasn't, all those arguments people (various people that is) made about how she should have unilaterally rejected the advice of the Prime Minister (without waiting for a court I guess) and didn't 'save' the country from that must have been something else entirely.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
That's OK, because it's unlikely that there be any more fiscal headroom for another bribe tax cut anyway.
Which means another 500,000 or so households will have less money having had to remortgage with nothing more to easy the pain.
Rishi really hasn't thought things through - hes hoping something will come up when in reality the only things on the horizon are more likely to be bad rather than good news
You know that thing where you give an optimiser or equation solver a scenario that doesn't have a solution, and it just cycles dismally forever?
Rishi is that macro, which is possibly the first time Rishi has been described as macro.
(The difference is that every week another possible date becomes impossible, until he's left with December 19th or campaigning over Christmas.)
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
I'm not sure if they do or not - they serve at His Majesty's pleasure, and if the outcome of an election does not change who has the confidence of the House, is there an actual requirement to re-up as it were? They don't actually serve terms after all.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
According to that paragon of political reporting the Daily Star:
Boris Johnson visited Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen and officially ask to form the next Government.
As the head of state, Her Majesty must officially give permission to the elected Prime Minister, although she would never in practice refuse to do this.
It follows Boris Johnson's resounding victory last night that saw the Conservative Party win a landslide, ending up with a huge majority.
As has been well signposted, the next big danger point is or are the May locals.
Just looking back to the much talked about 1997 election - the split of Labour/LD/Green versus Conservative/Referendum comes out at 60-33. The R&W yesterday was 61-35, the equivalent in March 2023 was 60-35.
In 1945, the split between Lab/Liberal and Conservative was 60-36.
In December 2019, the split was 47-48.
What's remarkable is not how much has changed but how little.
Tommorow should be the day Vaughan Gething gets annointed as First Minister of Wales....or not!! He is only currently leader of Welsh Labour and has to be elected by the Senedd...except Labour doesnt have a majority. Plaid have put their leader Rhun ap Iorweth forward as an alternative and it would only take 1 or 2 disgruntled Labour MSs to vote against Gething to spoil the party. Say someone who doesnt like Gething (quite a long list) and who wont be standing for reelection...(a few of those).....
Lol "Casper and Genevieve". I bet they went to the local comp.
I know they think any publicity helps the cause, and to a degree they must be right as these groups have gotten a lot of attention for their causes by doing this and not just sneering from the press or whoever, but their targets often seem very random indeed.
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
I'm not sure if they do or not - they serve at His Majesty's pleasure, and if the outcome of an election does not change who has the confidence of the House, is there an actual requirement to re-up as it were? They don't actually serve terms after all.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
Boris Johnson visited Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen 1
I find myself thinking of the late Queen quite a lot at the moment.
It obviously wasn’t the Conservatives’ fault but her death is just one more of the ghastly things to have happened during this parliament. And that awful, awful, awful, moment when, masked and grieving for her beloved husband, she sat alone in the Abbey, whilst her PM & Co were having a piss up in Downing St.
We will look back on these years with horror. Almost everything that could have gone wrong, has.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Rishi Sunak to NOT be Tory leader - 10/3 Likeliest month of election - October 5/4 Labour to win most seats - 1/10 Conservatives to lose over 200 seats (vs 2019 total) - 8/13"
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Hell of a difference between going to Biarritz and going to Samoa.
I seem to recall certain Republicans pretending to think the unelected Head of State should get involved in political matters around the time of the prorogation case, but I'm happy to agree that His Majesty should take every step to have no part in, influence on, or involvement in, the decision of when the PM will ask for a GE (in the 'cannot really so no' sense of asking).
That wasn't the issue with the prorogation crisis, the Queen being party to an unlawful act was the issue.
King Charles III going overseas isn't unlawful.
Sure it wasn't, all those arguments people (various people that is) made about how she should have unilaterally rejected the advice of the Prime Minister (without waiting for a court I guess) and didn't 'save' the country from that must have been something else entirely.
One of the fascinating things, to me about Brexit, was being non-ideological in my vote. I voted remain, but for what I regarded as pragmatic reasons.
The discovery that so many people were prepared to die on the top of that hill was a moderate surprise. What was an extreme surprise was the number of politicians who suddenly decided that *this* was the cause to burn their careers to the ground over.
The ever more bizarre expectations from both sides were a part of that. Some seemed to think that this chap would show up and stop/start/save/abolish Brexit.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Hell of a difference between going to Biarritz and going to Samoa.
Actually, given advances in travel technology, a there-and-back round trip to Samoa is easier now, than a trip to Biarritz was then.
EDIT: A thought occurs. Both Sunak and Starmer do their votes and take the plane to Samoa. Wake up to find out which one is PM, meet the King, do a round of meeting Commonwealth heads of state, fly home.
Lol "Casper and Genevieve". I bet they went to the local comp.
I bet Casper and Genevieve are those posh bellends who try and pass themselves off as working class people.
For me the funniest thing is whoever put that tweet out obviously had no idea that "Casper and Genevieve" might be seen as weird posh names.
I bet the f*ckers went to public school, don't work, and are supported by their doting parents who themselves inherited all their wealth from their families, and so on, and so on. The bastards are probably living off the handed-down spoils of slave traders and plantation owners, or petrochemical magnates. At weekends they vacate the Chelsea flat and head off back to the country house to ride ponies and rear alpacas.
(I may be allowing my biases to colour my thinking a bit here.)
Just catching up on the SUV threadette. There is a lot of nonsense written on this topic because (I think??) people confuse the US idea of an SUV with our concept of it.
Someone earlier sought to compare our SUVs with estates (i.e. the modern incarnation of them). This is a great point, I think.
In many cases, the estates are larger.
BMW 5 series estate has a larger footprint than an Audi Q5, for example.
And the 7-seater (!) Audi Q7 is barely 10cm longer and wider.
Full disclosure, I'm an SUV driver. But there's a whiff of moral panic about them I think.
It's not the length, it's the width, and all modern cars have become a lot wider, not just SUVs.
Maybe so, but it was the nonsense focus on SUVs specifically that I was challenging.
(The Q5 is only an inch wider than the 5 series estate in any case)
Right, but compare to cars from a decade, two decades and three decades ago and you will see the difference plain as day.
So what though? That was never the point I was making. My point was the endless focus on SUVs specifically, when the truth is they often have smaller footprints than estates.
SUVs are more dangerous for pedestrians than "ordinary" cars, they are less fuel efficient (because they are heavier) and they cause greater wear on roads (again because they are heavier). They can be handy in rural locations where roads are poor, and generally empty, but in cities they are a menace with no redeeming features.
Heavier. Hmm.
The problem with the catch-all term SUV is, I think, the definition.
See below:
BMW 5 series estate 1,790 to 2,035 kg
Audi Q5 1,775 to 2,075 kg
Yes I am sure there are exceptions but SUVs generally are heavier than other types of car. And more dangerous to pedestrians. And take up more roadspace. And are less fuel efficient.
Well, as I say it depends on your definition of SUVs! Light trucks (sic) as @MattW notes are often called SUVs, it's become a catch-all term for "big cars that I don't approve of".
But, the Audi Q5 is pretty much a common-or-garden SUV and as I have shown is similar to a common-or-garden BMW 5 series estate in weight.
So, the definition matters.
The difference between the Q5 and the 5 series is stability eg centre of gravity height, and perhaps the "I feel impregnable" attitude that can be engendered (which is expressed far more clearly in Usonian circles with their higher acceptance of actual or threatened violence), and the inability of drivers to cope.
I don't have detailed stats at that level.
But I was planning a brief response to Bart's comments overnight, and in part it fits well here.
I'm not concerned about what happens to Audi-hoons, BMW-bums or lobotomised Landrover drivers; when they kill themselves we can give them a Darwin Award and move on. I am not even especially concerned when the dozy driver, whichever of all of us it is today, kills themselves.
I AM very concerned about such individuals driving around in vehicles with enough power, performance, weight and kinetic energy (ie 0.5mv^2) to demolish the nearest house, or put half a dozen school kids in hospital because "I pressed the wrong pedal".
Commonwealth Meeting starts Monday 21 October in Samoa - that's Sunday evening UK time.
GE on 17 October - votes counted overnight - no way is Charles sitting in Buckingham Palace on Friday afternoon waiting to meet the new PM.
He will already have gone - bearing in mind he is going to Australia on the way.
Why not fly the leaders of the all parties out - after the voting, before the count is finished. The winner meets the King, meets the Commonwealth Heads of State. That's a whole bunch of diplomatic visits done in one go.
Watching John Oliver and America's student loans system is bonkers.
Had a woman who finished university ten years ago with a debt of $80,000. In those ten years she had repaid $120,000 and her outstanding balance is $76,000.
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
No. The PM remains in office throughout the election campaign and beyond, until they resign. They are not re-appointed after an election, so no kissing of hands.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
Income Tax is annual - the rates for 24/25 have already been set and I don't think there is any precedent for rates being changed mid year.
The only cut which would show up in pay packets is NI.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Hell of a difference between going to Biarritz and going to Samoa.
Actually, given advances in travel technology, a there-and-back round trip to Samoa is easier now, than a trip to Biarritz was then.
EDIT: A thought occurs. Both Sunak and Starmer do their votes and take the plane to Samoa. Wake up to find out which one is PM, meet the King, do a round of meeting Commonwealth heads of state, fly home.
Brilliant! The loser has to fly home cattle-class on Malaysia Airlines with a 12 hour stopover in Kuala Lumpur .
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Somebody posted a link the other day saying only the monarch can appoint a new PM, they cannot delegate it to the Counsellors of State.
Just catching up on the SUV threadette. There is a lot of nonsense written on this topic because (I think??) people confuse the US idea of an SUV with our concept of it.
Someone earlier sought to compare our SUVs with estates (i.e. the modern incarnation of them). This is a great point, I think.
In many cases, the estates are larger.
BMW 5 series estate has a larger footprint than an Audi Q5, for example.
And the 7-seater (!) Audi Q7 is barely 10cm longer and wider.
Full disclosure, I'm an SUV driver. But there's a whiff of moral panic about them I think.
It's not the length, it's the width, and all modern cars have become a lot wider, not just SUVs.
Maybe so, but it was the nonsense focus on SUVs specifically that I was challenging.
(The Q5 is only an inch wider than the 5 series estate in any case)
Right, but compare to cars from a decade, two decades and three decades ago and you will see the difference plain as day.
So what though? That was never the point I was making. My point was the endless focus on SUVs specifically, when the truth is they often have smaller footprints than estates.
SUVs are more dangerous for pedestrians than "ordinary" cars, they are less fuel efficient (because they are heavier) and they cause greater wear on roads (again because they are heavier). They can be handy in rural locations where roads are poor, and generally empty, but in cities they are a menace with no redeeming features.
Heavier. Hmm.
The problem with the catch-all term SUV is, I think, the definition.
See below:
BMW 5 series estate 1,790 to 2,035 kg
Audi Q5 1,775 to 2,075 kg
Yes I am sure there are exceptions but SUVs generally are heavier than other types of car. And more dangerous to pedestrians. And take up more roadspace. And are less fuel efficient.
Well, as I say it depends on your definition of SUVs! Light trucks (sic) as @MattW notes are often called SUVs, it's become a catch-all term for "big cars that I don't approve of".
But, the Audi Q5 is pretty much a common-or-garden SUV and as I have shown is similar to a common-or-garden BMW 5 series estate in weight.
So, the definition matters.
The difference between the Q5 and the 5 series is stability eg centre of gravity height, and perhaps the "I feel impregnable" attitude that can be engendered (which is expressed far more clearly in Usonian circles with their higher acceptance of actual or threatened violence), and the inability of drivers to cope.
I don't have detailed stats at that level.
But I was planning a brief response to Bart's comments overnight, and in part it fits well here.
I'm not concerned about what happens to Audi-hoons, BMW-bums or lobotomised Landrover drivers; when they kill themselves we can give them a Darwin Award and move on. I am not even especially concerned when the dozy driver, whichever of all of us it is today, kills themselves.
I AM very concerned about such individuals driving around in vehicles with enough power, performance, weight and kinetic energy (ie 0.5mv^2) to demolish the nearest house, or put half a dozen school kids in hospital because "I pressed the wrong pedal".
Near where I lived, previously, an idiot rebuilt a house, removing half the drive.
So he parked his car in the remains of the drive, completely blocking the pavement. Lovely for old people, eh?
The cherry on top was when he stuck an L sticker on it. A high end Tesla Model S - with 750hp or so. Not sure that is legal - and I hope he actually insured it. A 0-60 of about 2 seconds in the hands of a learner driver?
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
I'm not sure if they do or not - they serve at His Majesty's pleasure, and if the outcome of an election does not change who has the confidence of the House, is there an actual requirement to re-up as it were? They don't actually serve terms after all.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
Boris Johnson visited Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen 1
I find myself thinking of the late Queen quite a lot at the moment.
It obviously wasn’t the Conservatives’ fault but her death is just one more of the ghastly things to have happened during this parliament. And that awful, awful, awful, moment when, masked and grieving for her beloved husband, she sat alone in the Abbey, whilst her PM & Co were having a piss up in Downing St.
We will look back on these years with horror. Almost everything that could have gone wrong, has.
yes since 2019 we have had 3 covid lockdowns through which the tories partied. Putin invading Ukraine Massive inflation and cost of living crisis Big increase in mortgages Queen dying
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Hell of a difference between going to Biarritz and going to Samoa.
Actually, given advances in travel technology, a there-and-back round trip to Samoa is easier now, than a trip to Biarritz was then.
EDIT: A thought occurs. Both Sunak and Starmer do their votes and take the plane to Samoa. Wake up to find out which one is PM, meet the King, do a round of meeting Commonwealth heads of state, fly home.
Brilliant! The loser has to fly home cattle-class on Malaysia Airlines with a 12 hour stopover in Kuala Lumpur .
The loser would probably find not returning to Westminster for a couple of weeks a joy. What would you rather do? Go back to the failure or spend a couple of weeks in 6 star hotel in Samoa?
Watching John Oliver and America's student loans system is bonkers.
Had a woman who finished university ten years ago with a debt of $80,000. In those ten years she had repaid $120,000 an her outstanding balance is $76,000.
I mean how the feck?
When did she start borrowing and how long had the interest been accumulating before she started making payments?
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
October 17th doesn’t work if Rishi wants a tax cut visible in people’s pay packet - it would need to be implemented before September 6th (so announced in mid August at the very latest )for it to appear before the election.
Income Tax is annual - the rates for 24/25 have already been set and I don't think there is any precedent for rates being changed mid year.
The only cut which would show up in pay packets is NI.
I pointed that out on twitter yesterday only to be told by someone that it changed mid year at some point in the past.
Given that that person was talking about using charts for the calculations I can only assume we are talking back in the 70s/80s and that he hadn’t a clue how computers work.
But my point was there isn’t time for any tax cut to be seen before an October election, you need to cut in September for it to have an impact on a November election and we’ve already seen the complete lack of impact the tax cuts have made to pollinh
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Somebody posted a link the other day saying only the monarch can appoint a new PM, they cannot delegate it to the Counsellors of State.
Was that link on Twitter or legitimate?
What happens if we have a regency at the time so the monarch can't act themselves? Doesn't seem right.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
On topic, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Samoa thing is a total red herring. It's a bit of an inconvenience if King Chuckie is on the other side of the world. But the options are a call (nothing to say it can't be done) or getting on an aeroplane.
Also totally unfair of TSE to accuses the King of "damaging democracy". I'm not a monarchist but he is, in fact, head of the Commonwealth, so he essentially has to be there (if able with his health), and it's been in the diary for a very long time. And, as I say, it's a bit of a ball-ache rather than "restricting the dates".
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
Yes the entire British constitution is made up on the hoof for the convenience of the people in charge. A way will be found, I am 100% sure.
On topic, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Samoa thing is a total red herring. It's a bit of an inconvenience if King Chuckie is on the other side of the world. But the options are a call (nothing to say it can't be done) or getting on an aeroplane.
Also totally unfair of TSE to accuses the King of "damaging democracy". I'm not a monarchist but he is, in fact, head of the Commonwealth, so he essentially has to be there (if able with his health), and it's been in the diary for a very long time. And, as I say, it's a bit of a ball-ache rather than "restricting the dates".
We pay the King's wages, we should be primus inter pares in the Commonwealth.
I listen to a lot of LBC. Callers seem as fed up with Labour as they are the Conservatives. I believe the "Labour are as bad as us, stick with the Devil you know" might be working. 1992 Redux!
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
Yes the entire British constitution is made up on the hoof for the convenience of the people in charge. A way will be found, I am 100% sure.
The King could communicate his instruction to form a government by recording a TikTok.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
Yes the entire British constitution is made up on the hoof for the convenience of the people in charge. A way will be found, I am 100% sure.
All constitutions are the same.
Only thing is the US has SCOTUS determining it based on what they want, while we replace our people in charge more frequently.
For all those of you interested in Ana Taylor-Joy and/or Chris Hemsworth, the trailer to "Furiosa", the prequel to Mad Max:Fury Road, is now out. It looks good.
I listen to a lot of LBC. Callers seem as fed up with Labour as they are the Conservatives. I believe the "Labour are as bad as us, stick with the Devil you know" might be working. 1992 Redux!
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
No. The PM remains in office throughout the election campaign and beyond, until they resign. They are not re-appointed after an election, so no kissing of hands.
I thought technically the Prime Minister, having lost the ability to command a majority in the Commons following the election, has to go to the monarch and tender his or her resignation and then invites or suggests to the monarch they ask the party leader who can now command a majority to form a new administration.
The bit I've never quite understood is if you stand against an incumbent MP at a General Election and then win the seat, do you become the MP as soon as the result is announced or at some other point. Once the Returning Officer declares you duly elected, is that the moment you become an MP?
The successful former opposition leader is invited to the Palace and upon receiving the commission to form a new administration from the monarch, becomes Prime Minister so the only interregnum is between the formal resignation of the previous incumbent and the acceptance of the commission by the incoming leader (just a few minutes).
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
I'm not sure if they do or not - they serve at His Majesty's pleasure, and if the outcome of an election does not change who has the confidence of the House, is there an actual requirement to re-up as it were? They don't actually serve terms after all.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
Boris Johnson visited Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen 1
I find myself thinking of the late Queen quite a lot at the moment.
It obviously wasn’t the Conservatives’ fault but her death is just one more of the ghastly things to have happened during this parliament. And that awful, awful, awful, moment when, masked and grieving for her beloved husband, she sat alone in the Abbey, whilst her PM & Co were having a piss up in Downing St.
We will look back on these years with horror. Almost everything that could have gone wrong, has.
yes since 2019 we have had 3 covid lockdowns through which the tories partied. Putin invading Ukraine Massive inflation and cost of living crisis Big increase in mortgages Queen dying
Lol "Casper and Genevieve". I bet they went to the local comp.
I bet Casper and Genevieve are those posh bellends who try and pass themselves off as working class people.
For me the funniest thing is whoever put that tweet out obviously had no idea that "Casper and Genevieve" might be seen as weird posh names.
I bet the f*ckers went to public school, don't work, and are supported by their doting parents who themselves inherited all their wealth from their families, and so on, and so on. The bastards are probably living off the handed-down spoils of slave traders and plantation owners, or petrochemical magnates. At weekends they vacate the Chelsea flat and head off back to the country house to ride ponies and rear alpacas.
(I may be allowing my biases to colour my thinking a bit here.)
Casper? Named after a Disney ghost? Nah, much more demotic.
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
I'm not sure if they do or not - they serve at His Majesty's pleasure, and if the outcome of an election does not change who has the confidence of the House, is there an actual requirement to re-up as it were? They don't actually serve terms after all.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
Boris Johnson visited Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen 1
I find myself thinking of the late Queen quite a lot at the moment.
It obviously wasn’t the Conservatives’ fault but her death is just one more of the ghastly things to have happened during this parliament. And that awful, awful, awful, moment when, masked and grieving for her beloved husband, she sat alone in the Abbey, whilst her PM & Co were having a piss up in Downing St.
We will look back on these years with horror. Almost everything that could have gone wrong, has.
yes since 2019 we have had 3 covid lockdowns through which the tories partied. Putin invading Ukraine Massive inflation and cost of living crisis Big increase in mortgages Queen dying
Watching John Oliver and America's student loans system is bonkers.
Had a woman who finished university ten years ago with a debt of $80,000. In those ten years she had repaid $120,000 and her outstanding balance is $76,000.
I mean how the feck?
The American economy is a well oiled machine for funnelling money upwards.
For all those of you interested in Ana Taylor-Joy and/or Chris Hemsworth, the trailer to "Furiosa", the prequel to Mad Max:Fury Road, is now out. It looks good.
I listen to a lot of LBC. Callers seem as fed up with Labour as they are the Conservatives. I believe the "Labour are as bad as us, stick with the Devil you know" might be working. 1992 Redux!
They said similar in 1997. It’s good expectation management by Labour in any case.
Why would the King's travel plans make a difference? The assumption has to be that Sunak will continue as PM after the election.
Even a returning PM has to kiss KC's hand after an election, shirley?
No. The PM remains in office throughout the election campaign and beyond, until they resign. They are not re-appointed after an election, so no kissing of hands.
I thought technically the Prime Minister, having lost the ability to command a majority in the Commons following the election, has to go to the monarch and tender his or her resignation and then invites or suggests to the monarch they ask the party leader who can now command a majority to form a new administration.
The bit I've never quite understood is if you stand against an incumbent MP at a General Election and then win the seat, do you become the MP as soon as the result is announced or at some other point. Once the Returning Officer declares you duly elected, is that the moment you become an MP?
The successful former opposition leader is invited to the Palace and upon receiving the commission to form a new administration from the monarch, becomes Prime Minister so the only interregnum is between the formal resignation of the previous incumbent and the acceptance of the commission by the incoming leader (just a few minutes).
Surely the [edit] concretification of MPs has to happen before the PM is defenestrated/confirmed/replaced. Because the latter depends on the numbers of MPs?
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
The Football Governance Bill was finally introduced today and had its First Reading in the Commons.
No date set for Second Reading.
Seems unlikely to me that it would complete all Commons and Lords stages before the Summer Recess so would need to be completed in the wash-up.
And I would have thought it's the sort of Bill with a high public profile that they would need to ensure does go through - would look very bad if it was abandoned.
Summer Recess ends 10 September so this surely points to very late October or more likely November GE. Which is why 14 November was suggested in the first place.
I listen to a lot of LBC. Callers seem as fed up with Labour as they are the Conservatives. I believe the "Labour are as bad as us, stick with the Devil you know" might be working. 1992 Redux!
...awaiting any evidence of that in the polls.
Lots of tears today over Labour's "envy tax on ambition" ( VAT on Private Schools).
The callers seem to consider Sunak/Starmer as a single failed entity which is why I believe change candidate Mordaunt is a good shout.
On topic, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Samoa thing is a total red herring. It's a bit of an inconvenience if King Chuckie is on the other side of the world. But the options are a call (nothing to say it can't be done) or getting on an aeroplane.
Also totally unfair of TSE to accuses the King of "damaging democracy". I'm not a monarchist but he is, in fact, head of the Commonwealth, so he essentially has to be there (if able with his health), and it's been in the diary for a very long time. And, as I say, it's a bit of a ball-ache rather than "restricting the dates".
We pay the King's wages, we should be primus inter pares in the Commonwealth.
As I say, I am not a monarchist. But Charles was, in fact, officially appointed as designated successor to his (then still alive) mother at the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in 2018 (it isn't technically a hereditary role - it was voted on by heads of government of member states). When she died, he succeeded her. It doesn't really matter who you or I reckon "should" be head of the Commonwealth - the King, in fact, is.
If the King is out of the country, the PM or incoming PM can simply travel to wherever he is to deal with the business of the government / Parliament. This has happened before, I think, in France.
Or they'll figure out a way to do it remotely or to have some delegated representative do it or postpone it til the King is back. The advantage of a non written constitution is that you can make up new processes and traditions on the fly as necessary. If Sunak wants to hold an election in October or November or wherever then he'll do that and somebody behind the scenes will figure something out to deal with the King being out of the country.
Indeed.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
Had to travel down to the Big Smoke from the Flatlands today (a rare occurrence for me).
Since when did Kings Cross have a Hadith of the Day on the announcement board?
I don't buy into this conspiracy nonsense about the Mayor, but really, is that strictly necessary?
I expect to see Psalm 118 up at Easter.
Actually, no, I'd rather see some platform announcements.
In the spirit of ecumenical thought, can we have this prayer on the Kings Cross board?
Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valour pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!
Comments
Sunak should just name the date now, be it October 17, November 14, January 25, or whatever. If he doesn't end the speculation soon it will kill whatever minute chances he has.
Presumably he wanted to keep a May election option open in case of a budget bounce. But that's tanked so it's going to be the autumn. (I assume even he's not stupid enough to hold out for December or January.)
Is there anything to be gained by keeping Labour guessing? No - they are surely prepared for all possible dates. Conversely, it's hard to see a leadership challenge once he's neamed the GE date and the Tories are in campaign mode.
In the meantime, by not naming a date he is going to face constant corrosive speculation about it.
Rishi really hasn't thought things through - hes hoping something will come up when in reality the only things on the horizon are more likely to be bad rather than good news
The Douglas-Home of our time (he got 363 days)
King Charles III going overseas isn't unlawful.
Band D would be 2428.
Can anyone top that for their band xD
Let us say the Tories have a tiny chance of winning (I think it's zero actually). They need a long 'campaign' lead time to have any chance, as a short campaign won't change anything. Starmer is neither May nor Jezza. The Tories need time, luck, several Black swans and a miracle.
🚨 BREAKING: Just Stop Oil Supporters Disrupt Emily Thornberry
🔥 Casper and Genevieve threw orange confetti and confronted her after she ignored the letter we delivered last week.
🛢️
@EmilyThornberry must commit to leaving Labour if they fail to cancel Tory oil and gas.
https://x.com/JustStop_Oil/status/1770093336726028624?s=20
Lol "Casper and Genevieve". I bet they went to the local comp.
I don't remember if Cameron, May, or Boris did, but even if they did was it necessary?
He could do without the May 2nd local and mayoral elections.
Rishi is that macro, which is possibly the first time Rishi has been described as macro.
(The difference is that every week another possible date becomes impossible, until he's left with December 19th or campaigning over Christmas.)
Boris Johnson visited Buckingham Palace to meet the Queen and officially ask to form the next Government.
As the head of state, Her Majesty must officially give permission to the elected Prime Minister, although she would never in practice refuse to do this.
It follows Boris Johnson's resounding victory last night that saw the Conservative Party win a landslide, ending up with a huge majority.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/breaking-boris-johnson-drives-buckingham-21089631
As has been well signposted, the next big danger point is or are the May locals.
Just looking back to the much talked about 1997 election - the split of Labour/LD/Green versus Conservative/Referendum comes out at 60-33. The R&W yesterday was 61-35, the equivalent in March 2023 was 60-35.
In 1945, the split between Lab/Liberal and Conservative was 60-36.
In December 2019, the split was 47-48.
What's remarkable is not how much has changed but how little.
I am not saying it will happen...but it could..
She ignored their letter, heaven forfend!
Will Brendan Clarke-Smith suffer at the polls or Labour with that council tax bill?
It obviously wasn’t the Conservatives’ fault but her death is just one more of the ghastly things to have happened during this parliament. And that awful, awful, awful, moment when, masked and grieving for her beloved husband, she sat alone in the Abbey, whilst her PM & Co were having a piss up in Downing St.
We will look back on these years with horror. Almost everything that could have gone wrong, has.
As he is 8 years old I don't think it would be him being naughty. He has siblings Rowan and Bodhi. His mum is a bit of a hippie
Rishi Sunak to NOT be Tory leader - 10/3
Likeliest month of election - October 5/4
Labour to win most seats - 1/10
Conservatives to lose over 200 seats (vs 2019 total) - 8/13"
https://x.com/LadPolitics/status/1770144624079724703?s=20
No constituency ones yet, but they're going to start soon, with Newcastle Under Lyme for some reason...
The discovery that so many people were prepared to die on the top of that hill was a moderate surprise. What was an extreme surprise was the number of politicians who suddenly decided that *this* was the cause to burn their careers to the ground over.
The ever more bizarre expectations from both sides were a part of that. Some seemed to think that this chap would show up and stop/start/save/abolish Brexit.
You can do better than that.
EDIT: A thought occurs. Both Sunak and Starmer do their votes and take the plane to Samoa. Wake up to find out which one is PM, meet the King, do a round of meeting Commonwealth heads of state, fly home.
"🚨 NEW: A significant number of Tories are prepared to turn on Sunak if the local elections end in a 'bloodbath'
They have warned he will face a leadership challenge if they lose their mayors in the West Midlands and Teesside
[@theipaper]"
https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1770144000399270024?s=20
GE on 17 October - votes counted overnight - no way is Charles sitting in Buckingham Palace on Friday afternoon waiting to meet the new PM.
He will already have gone - bearing in mind he is going to Australia on the way.
I bet the f*ckers went to public school, don't work, and are supported by their doting parents who themselves inherited all their wealth from their families, and so on, and so on. The bastards are probably living off the handed-down spoils of slave traders and plantation owners, or petrochemical magnates. At weekends they vacate the Chelsea flat and head off back to the country house to ride ponies and rear alpacas.
(I may be allowing my biases to colour my thinking a bit here.)
Confidence in each party to have a good long term economic plan for Britain?
Conservatives
Confident 21%
Not confident 68%
Labour
Confident 31%
Not confident 56%"
https://x.com/keiranpedley/status/1770155197890748730?s=20
I don't have detailed stats at that level.
But I was planning a brief response to Bart's comments overnight, and in part it fits well here.
I'm not concerned about what happens to Audi-hoons, BMW-bums or lobotomised Landrover drivers; when they kill themselves we can give them a Darwin Award and move on. I am not even especially concerned when the dozy driver, whichever of all of us it is today, kills themselves.
I AM very concerned about such individuals driving around in vehicles with enough power, performance, weight and kinetic energy (ie 0.5mv^2) to demolish the nearest house, or put half a dozen school kids in hospital because "I pressed the wrong pedal".
Just for examples a couple of mild ones. Here is a man driving his medium sized car though a brick wall right into his friend's lounge when he 'pushed the wrong pedal whilst parking': Pic below.
https://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/24005689.car-crashes-bungalow-salisbury-street/
And here is an Audi driver causing serious structural damage after it he had already hit a vehicle on the drive:
https://news.sky.com/story/man-injured-as-car-ploughs-into-house-10450749
There are loads of these every week. And we wonder why insurance premiums are going up
https://news.sky.com/story/man-injured-as-car-ploughs-into-house-10450749
And no, I’m keeping schtum.
Had a woman who finished university ten years ago with a debt of $80,000. In those ten years she had repaid $120,000 and her outstanding balance is $76,000.
I mean how the feck?
The only cut which would show up in pay packets is NI.
So he parked his car in the remains of the drive, completely blocking the pavement. Lovely for old people, eh?
The cherry on top was when he stuck an L sticker on it. A high end Tesla Model S - with 750hp or so. Not sure that is legal - and I hope he actually insured it. A 0-60 of about 2 seconds in the hands of a learner driver?
https://x.com/adavies4/status/1770157107943211190?s=20
3 covid lockdowns through which the tories partied.
Putin invading Ukraine
Massive inflation and cost of living crisis
Big increase in mortgages
Queen dying
Fun times.
Or another member of the family acts in the King's stead.
Again, been done before.
A different royal instead of the Queen dealt with the election a few decades ago from memory.
Given that that person was talking about using charts for the calculations I can only assume we are talking back in the 70s/80s and that he hadn’t a clue how computers work.
But my point was there isn’t time for any tax cut to be seen before an October election, you need to cut in September for it to have an impact on a November election and we’ve already seen the complete lack of impact the tax cuts have made to pollinh
What happens if we have a regency at the time so the monarch can't act themselves? Doesn't seem right.
Also totally unfair of TSE to accuses the King of "damaging democracy". I'm not a monarchist but he is, in fact, head of the Commonwealth, so he essentially has to be there (if able with his health), and it's been in the diary for a very long time. And, as I say, it's a bit of a ball-ache rather than "restricting the dates".
Only thing is the US has SCOTUS determining it based on what they want, while we replace our people in charge more frequently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVswuip0-co
That's a lot of money for having one's bins emptied every three weeks.
The bit I've never quite understood is if you stand against an incumbent MP at a General Election and then win the seat, do you become the MP as soon as the result is announced or at some other point. Once the Returning Officer declares you duly elected, is that the moment you become an MP?
The successful former opposition leader is invited to the Palace and upon receiving the commission to form a new administration from the monarch, becomes Prime Minister so the only interregnum is between the formal resignation of the previous incumbent and the acceptance of the commission by the incoming leader (just a few minutes).
https://twitter.com/spignal/status/1770047449207316812
The French state isn't done micro-managing your life. PM is suggesting a four-day week... just for divorced parents.
It'd be Caspar with 2 A's that was the posh one.
No date set for Second Reading.
Seems unlikely to me that it would complete all Commons and Lords stages before the Summer Recess so would need to be completed in the wash-up.
And I would have thought it's the sort of Bill with a high public profile that they would need to ensure does go through - would look very bad if it was abandoned.
Summer Recess ends 10 September so this surely points to very late October or more likely November GE. Which is why 14 November was suggested in the first place.
The callers seem to consider Sunak/Starmer as a single failed entity which is why I believe change candidate Mordaunt is a good shout.
Since when did Kings Cross have a Hadith of the Day on the announcement board?
I don't buy into this conspiracy nonsense about the Mayor, but really, is that strictly necessary?
I expect to see Psalm 118 up at Easter.
Actually, no, I'd rather see some platform announcements.
[Edit: And maybe a Happy X if they must]
Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valour pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!