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About the Farage comeback – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    148grss said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    Reform are going nowhere. They have the potential to cost a lot of Tories their seats but not by being elected themselves. Instead they will let Labour in with a comfortable majority and probably for the next 10 years. How does that advance their agenda? Pointless.

    The crank left have agitated against capitalism for decades. There is zero chance of them actually gaining power *and implementing* their agenda, but they do so regardless.

    Why is the crank right any different?
    The main difference is that the right wing cranks seem to be able to attract almost 10% of the vote, mainly at the cost of the Conservatives, whilst the left wing cranks don't really trouble the scorers. But I agree that as cranks they have a lot in common.
    The crank right are also still beneficial to capitalism, no matter what they campaign on, so the structures of capital will allow them to succeed in a way that those structures refuse to give the left even a slight chance.
    Did you miss the Trussageddon?
    Trussageddon is happening, just slowly. The issue with Truss was not her policy proposal, but the way she announced it - it spooked the markets because she didn't have a plan. Whereas Sunak and Hunt are still cutting taxes and attempting to cut government spending despite the fact that it won't lead to more growth, because it put more money in the pockets of the richest people.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    mwadams said:

    This quote from the BBC, reporting on Sunak's trials and tribulations is quite the thing.

    "I think the party has just about had it," one senior Conservative figure, a firm supporter of the prime minister, said.

    "There's a realisation that there's nothing good left."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68597115

    then why are they standing ?
    Maybe they aren't. Maybe they're in the sixty who have already announced their retirement or the forty who I think everyone expects to join them.

    Or maybe it's Dave.

    (It is striking how Conservatives are just giving up. What are the current rules on winding up payments?)
    I think they get £19k to wrap up their affairs including letting staff and offices go
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,594
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    This quote from the BBC, reporting on Sunak's trials and tribulations is quite the thing.

    "I think the party has just about had it," one senior Conservative figure, a firm supporter of the prime minister, said.

    "There's a realisation that there's nothing good left."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68597115

    then why are they standing ?
    That is a very good question. One that we know a lot MPs have answered already. And, of course, this may not be an MP.
    That last is a good point. I stood as a "paperless" candidate in the last round of local elections, but I am sure I would be a "senior Lib Dem" if I publicly said something negative about the party.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,036

    theProle said:

    Barnesian said:

    Reform won’t do a deal with the Conservatives.

    Their whole schtick is that the Conservatives have lost their way and failed their supporters.

    Tearing down the parliamentary Tory party is exactly what they want.

    The question, to my mind, is how organised their ground game will be. UKIP proved to be rubbish at the nuts and bolts of getting their potential votes into the ballot box.

    I agree. The objective of the UKIP / Brexit Party / ReFUK progression has been to take over the Conservative Party. Canadageddon is the target - where the smaller party further to the right takes over what is left of the supposedly more mainstream party after ELE.

    The reason why Farage will come back is simple - he has to be a player to become THE player. Remember that Conservative Party rules require its leader to be an MP. So pick your spot, run for office, finally get elected, rule over the ashes.

    Tice has gone for Hartlepools, Farage should run in...? Thanet again? Clacton? Boston? Where is the population heavily Brexity, poor and GBeebies-level ignorant?
    I agree with this.
    I think Farage's strategic aim is to be leader of a combined Tory/Reform party.

    Step 1. Reduce the Tory party to 100 seats with Farage on the sidelines avoiding responsibility for it. "Aw what a pity. Let's still be friends" - to the Tory membership and MPs.
    Step 2. Lead the move to combine the two parties with Farage as leader.
    Step 3. A "volunteer" among the remaining 100 Tory MPs steps down to allow Farage to win the by election and become LOTO.

    The Reformed Conservative Party will:
    Stand up for British culture, identity and values.
    Restore trust in our democracy.
    Repair our broken public services.
    Cut taxes to make work pay.
    Slash government waste and red tape.
    Maximise Britain's vast energy treasure of oil and gas, to reduce the cost of energy, beat the cost of living crisis and help unleash real economic growth.
    Finally take back control over our borders, our money and our laws.

    The Reformed Conservative Party will secure Britain's future as a free, proud and independent sovereign nation.

    Genuine question (assuming you weren't just taking the p*ss with that list): GB has arguably the best wind and wave energy resources of any European nation. Why not use those - they're free? Plus that's lots of green tech expertise for global exports.

    Wind = 29% and even solar energy is up to nearly 5%. Oil and gas increasingly expensive (ignoring carbon) and just sets us up for future dependency and supply problems as our resources dwindle?
    The flaw in the logic is the idea that wind and waves are free. Oil and gas are free too, if you drill holes in the ground in the right place. The snag is that you to get your "free" energy from the wind you have to build lots of expensive infrastructure, and when you get your free energy it's intermittent, so you either have to have lots of expensive storage infrastructure, or build all the oil and gas infrastructure as well and burn oil and gas when the wind isn't blowing.

    It may be that renewables are the right answer to our future energy needs - the jury is still out on that. But the idea that it's cheap energy is a complete mirage, as should be obvious to anybody whose been looking at their electricity bills over the last 30 years.
    But you need infrastructure anyway. You pay for that, and it gets amortised, whatever energy source is putting the electrons in at one end. Distributed, localised electricity generation and distribution is more efficient (similar to how packets are distributed over the Internet).

    And it's demonstrable cheaper energy. from 2015-2020m fossil fuels received £80bn in subsidies, renewables received £60bn. I agree that renewables aren't free, but they are a damn sight cheaper than fossil fuels which are eye-wateringly expensive. And that's before you factor in what we'll have to pay to remedy the carbon emissions.
    You do also need to factor in the fact that you are still going to have to drill for those hydrocarbons even when you are not burning them. Like it or not your whole world economy is based on hydrocarbons in one form or another. From the lubricants and coolants to help your EV go, to the insulation around the wiring that underpins every aspect of modern society.

    I am a big fan of not burning hydrocarbons and have been for 35 years - because it is a finite and valuable resource. But the idea the world can operate without hydrocarbons in all their other forms and uses is naive and dangerous.
    This is where degrowth comes in and prioritising "wellbeing". The earths resources are finite. Pursuing growth fuels demand. So do not go for growth. Manage what you have. Hence we see Green councillors in the lake district not wanting to see EV chargers put in for electric cars, as I saw on our local politics show recently, as this simply keeps consumer demand there,

    The EU are spending millions funding research into it.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/13/economy/degrowth-climate-cop27/index.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187

    theProle said:

    Barnesian said:

    Reform won’t do a deal with the Conservatives.

    Their whole schtick is that the Conservatives have lost their way and failed their supporters.

    Tearing down the parliamentary Tory party is exactly what they want.

    The question, to my mind, is how organised their ground game will be. UKIP proved to be rubbish at the nuts and bolts of getting their potential votes into the ballot box.

    I agree. The objective of the UKIP / Brexit Party / ReFUK progression has been to take over the Conservative Party. Canadageddon is the target - where the smaller party further to the right takes over what is left of the supposedly more mainstream party after ELE.

    The reason why Farage will come back is simple - he has to be a player to become THE player. Remember that Conservative Party rules require its leader to be an MP. So pick your spot, run for office, finally get elected, rule over the ashes.

    Tice has gone for Hartlepools, Farage should run in...? Thanet again? Clacton? Boston? Where is the population heavily Brexity, poor and GBeebies-level ignorant?
    I agree with this.
    I think Farage's strategic aim is to be leader of a combined Tory/Reform party.

    Step 1. Reduce the Tory party to 100 seats with Farage on the sidelines avoiding responsibility for it. "Aw what a pity. Let's still be friends" - to the Tory membership and MPs.
    Step 2. Lead the move to combine the two parties with Farage as leader.
    Step 3. A "volunteer" among the remaining 100 Tory MPs steps down to allow Farage to win the by election and become LOTO.

    The Reformed Conservative Party will:
    Stand up for British culture, identity and values.
    Restore trust in our democracy.
    Repair our broken public services.
    Cut taxes to make work pay.
    Slash government waste and red tape.
    Maximise Britain's vast energy treasure of oil and gas, to reduce the cost of energy, beat the cost of living crisis and help unleash real economic growth.
    Finally take back control over our borders, our money and our laws.

    The Reformed Conservative Party will secure Britain's future as a free, proud and independent sovereign nation.

    Genuine question (assuming you weren't just taking the p*ss with that list): GB has arguably the best wind and wave energy resources of any European nation. Why not use those - they're free? Plus that's lots of green tech expertise for global exports.

    Wind = 29% and even solar energy is up to nearly 5%. Oil and gas increasingly expensive (ignoring carbon) and just sets us up for future dependency and supply problems as our resources dwindle?
    The flaw in the logic is the idea that wind and waves are free. Oil and gas are free too, if you drill holes in the ground in the right place. The snag is that you to get your "free" energy from the wind you have to build lots of expensive infrastructure, and when you get your free energy it's intermittent, so you either have to have lots of expensive storage infrastructure, or build all the oil and gas infrastructure as well and burn oil and gas when the wind isn't blowing.

    It may be that renewables are the right answer to our future energy needs - the jury is still out on that. But the idea that it's cheap energy is a complete mirage, as should be obvious to anybody whose been looking at their electricity bills over the last 30 years.
    But you need infrastructure anyway. You pay for that, and it gets amortised, whatever energy source is putting the electrons in at one end. Distributed, localised electricity generation and distribution is more efficient (similar to how packets are distributed over the Internet).

    And it's demonstrable cheaper energy. from 2015-2020m fossil fuels received £80bn in subsidies, renewables received £60bn. I agree that renewables aren't free, but they are a damn sight cheaper than fossil fuels which are eye-wateringly expensive. And that's before you factor in what we'll have to pay to remedy the carbon emissions.
    You do also need to factor in the fact that you are still going to have to drill for those hydrocarbons even when you are not burning them. Like it or not your whole world economy is based on hydrocarbons in one form or another. From the lubricants and coolants to help your EV go, to the insulation around the wiring that underpins every aspect of modern society.

    I am a big fan of not burning hydrocarbons and have been for 35 years - because it is a finite and valuable resource. But the idea the world can operate without hydrocarbons in all their other forms and uses is naive and dangerous.
    It potentially could - but that's far longer away than is replacing hydrocarbons as a fuel source. And neither you nor I need worry about that.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    They've voted for it, though.
    There are independents and you can spoil your vote.

    As ever I ask why should I vote for the lesser of two evils when I dont want to vote for Evil in the first place ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @nicholascecil

    Rishi Sunak hints the Tories would accept another £5 million from 'racism' storm donor Frank Hester
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    edited March 18

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    They've voted for it, though.
    There are independents and you can spoil your vote.

    As ever I ask why should I vote for the lesser of two evils when I dont want to vote for Evil in the first place ?
    Biden isn't evil.

    And you don't have a vote.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,015

    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    This quote from the BBC, reporting on Sunak's trials and tribulations is quite the thing.

    "I think the party has just about had it," one senior Conservative figure, a firm supporter of the prime minister, said.

    "There's a realisation that there's nothing good left."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68597115

    then why are they standing ?
    That is a very good question. One that we know a lot MPs have answered already. And, of course, this may not be an MP.
    That last is a good point. I stood as a "paperless" candidate in the last round of local elections, but I am sure I would be a "senior Lib Dem" if I publicly said something negative about the party.
    "Top" is the favourite red top word. It is a standing joke amongst my friends that the only way any of us will ever get to be a top lawyer is to really screw up.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    mwadams said:

    This quote from the BBC, reporting on Sunak's trials and tribulations is quite the thing.

    "I think the party has just about had it," one senior Conservative figure, a firm supporter of the prime minister, said.

    "There's a realisation that there's nothing good left."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68597115

    then why are they standing ?
    Politicians are invariably optimists. They may well believe that they can turn it around at some point later, as Labour eventually did, or as the Tories did in the early 2000s. Or that they want to achieve things locally. Or that they want to fly the flag anyway and stand for what they believe in. Or it may be that they see no alternative for them on the right-of-centre and the Tories remain their best bet. Or, simply habit, networks and friendship.

    Many reasons.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,771
    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil

    Rishi Sunak hints the Tories would accept another £5 million from 'racism' storm donor Frank Hester

    I don't feel like that is really news.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil

    Rishi Sunak hints the Tories would accept another £5 million from 'racism' storm donor Frank Hester

    Oh why get excited ? Labour would happily accept £5million from Tony Blair the Iraqi war monger.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    Reform are going nowhere. They have the potential to cost a lot of Tories their seats but not by being elected themselves. Instead they will let Labour in with a comfortable majority and probably for the next 10 years. How does that advance their agenda? Pointless.

    The crank left have agitated against capitalism for decades. There is zero chance of them actually gaining power *and implementing* their agenda, but they do so regardless.

    Why is the crank right any different?
    The main difference is that the right wing cranks seem to be able to attract almost 10% of the vote, mainly at the cost of the Conservatives, whilst the left wing cranks don't really trouble the scorers. But I agree that as cranks they have a lot in common.
    The crank left seem to go Green, these days.
    True, the water melon vote.
    The Greens are being used as Spare Labour, at the moment.
    Greens like BJO loathe Labour, however.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil

    Rishi Sunak hints the Tories would accept another £5 million from 'racism' storm donor Frank Hester

    The spineless gimp is still lying .

    Hester did not apologize for his racist comments .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    I hope this turns out better than the last time the Aussies bought into our infrastructure.
    (I'm slightly surprised we haven't banned MacQuarie altogether.)

    https://www.afr.com/markets/equity-markets/why-hostplus-is-doing-the-uk-differently-20240318-p5fd3r
    ..In late November, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak held a “global investment summit” in the Tudor surrounds of Hampton Court Palace, just south of London.
    As part of the summit, IFM Investors announced it would look to invest £10 billion ($9.79 billion) in British assets by 2027, and Aware Super unveiled a London office and said it would deploy £5.25 billion.
    Downing Street likes to elicit this kind of commitment from the big super funds on a pretty regular basis. Former PM Boris Johnson in 2022 cadged a £12 billion pledge from Macquarie. And chancellor Jeremy Hunt this month welcomed a promise from AustralianSuper that it would have £18 billion invested in Britain by 2030. ...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    They've voted for it, though.
    There are independents and you can spoil your vote.

    As ever I ask why should I vote for the lesser of two evils when I dont want to vote for Evil in the first place ?
    Biden isn't evil.

    And you don't have a vote.
    Well of course he is, he left Pelosi in situ.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Donkeys said:

    biggles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    This is the point I’ve been making for years.
    Which doesn’t make it correct of course.

    The article appears confused and conflates two different issues: winning a landslide and ability to make an impact afterwards.

    Those two dimensions are linked only if you believe that the latter is why people will vote at the GE.

    However, this is a fallacy. Most people voting this time will be passing judgement, not looking into a crystal ball.

    My contention is that voting against is a far more powerful motivation than voting for. This time people have raw hatred of the tories. Fury. Horror of what has happened.

    The article, and the state of things, is neatly summed up by its own comment:

    "winning a landslide on a wave of popular goodwill looks like a tall order. The data shows that on almost every economic metric the country is doing worse now than it was in 1997.”

    But that’s the point. The landslide won’t happen because of popular goodwill and optimism. It will happen because of ill-will and fury.
    "This time people have raw hatred of the tories. Fury. Horror of what has happened. "

    If the only you people you talk to all day are obsessed with politics then maybe this is the word that you see. its here on PB for sure. But in the real world? People are talking about the footy, the rugby, the weather, Kate Middleton sorry, the Princess of Wales etc etc.

    I have little doubt of a thumping Labour win and its time that the Tories went home again to think again. It may take them a while, as they don't seem to be seeing the right answers right now.

    But its good to step out of the bubble every now and again.
    No one less in a political bubble, who still frequents this site, could you find. In fact, I write ‘frequents’ but I am frequently absent from here for weeks, months.

    I chat to real people. I don’t own a car but travel instead on trains and buses, very occasionally planes. I shop at Lidl and take my son to football matches. I talk to people who generally have no interest in politics. My Surrey tory-voting friend spends very little time on politics but she is in rage at the moment.

    That is what I encounter everywhere with ordinary people. Raw fury at the tories. They fucked up their mortgages, their heating bills, their roads, their councils, their overseas and domestic travel, their shopping bills, and their NHS.
    I think you’re half right but I don’t think it feels like ‘97 because the real hatred isn’t there. In ‘97 the Tories were seen as the baddies, but now they are just viewed as rubbish.

    The real danger is that there is no immediate prospect of anything feeling much better very soon. Blair could turn the spending taps on in 2001. Starmer doesn’t have the option as the bath is full. The danger is an actual populist exploiting this next time round - someone who is actually all the things Boris got accused of being.
    Starmer will have the twin economic tailwinds of Rejoin and Irish unification.
    LOL.

    Plus global nuclear disarmament, world peace, and all the good will our reprisals for slavery bring? You’re right. A new golden age.
    There is no chance of Irish unification in the near future.

    This is because there is a substantial block of the Catholic community who would vote against. This has been seen, clearly, in polls for decades.

    Even among those who vote for explicitly Republican parties - when SF was devoting armed violence to unite Ireland, a substantial block of their voters said that they would vote No in a referendum.

    Until this changes, SF won't seriously ask for a Border Poll.
    I'm not an expert, and I certainly take what you say as true, but I do think there is a sea change amongst young people. Set against the backdrop of climate catastrophe, a new Cold War, genocide, etc. some of these seemingly intractable, generational objections are melting away.

    I think a bigger blocker might be some of the practical issues like 'what happens to NHS access in the North'?
    The NHS would be the main reason for most of what would be the (minority) pro-Union vote among Catholics in the 6C.

    For Ireland to be reunified, there'd have to be a referendum in the 26C too, in which a pro-reunification victory wouldn't be a dead cert.

    But it's not as if all Protestants (or whose parents were or are in that category) would vote for the Union.
    Is it just me, or is NI getting ever more progressive, given the recent rise of SF and Alliance, whereas the Republic is getting ever more right-wing, given anti-immigrant sentiment, and the rejection of changes to the "women should stay at home" bits of the Constitution?
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak is unchanged, while approval for
    @Keir_Starmer increases by five points.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead increases to twenty-three points in our latest results.
    Con 23% (-4)
    Lab 46% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (-1)
    Reform 12% (+1)
    SNP 2% (-)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Other 3% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 15th-18th March 2024
    Sample: 2,072 GB adults
    (Changes from 8th-11th March 2024)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,059

    Donkeys said:

    biggles said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    biggles said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    This is the point I’ve been making for years.
    Which doesn’t make it correct of course.

    The article appears confused and conflates two different issues: winning a landslide and ability to make an impact afterwards.

    Those two dimensions are linked only if you believe that the latter is why people will vote at the GE.

    However, this is a fallacy. Most people voting this time will be passing judgement, not looking into a crystal ball.

    My contention is that voting against is a far more powerful motivation than voting for. This time people have raw hatred of the tories. Fury. Horror of what has happened.

    The article, and the state of things, is neatly summed up by its own comment:

    "winning a landslide on a wave of popular goodwill looks like a tall order. The data shows that on almost every economic metric the country is doing worse now than it was in 1997.”

    But that’s the point. The landslide won’t happen because of popular goodwill and optimism. It will happen because of ill-will and fury.
    "This time people have raw hatred of the tories. Fury. Horror of what has happened. "

    If the only you people you talk to all day are obsessed with politics then maybe this is the word that you see. its here on PB for sure. But in the real world? People are talking about the footy, the rugby, the weather, Kate Middleton sorry, the Princess of Wales etc etc.

    I have little doubt of a thumping Labour win and its time that the Tories went home again to think again. It may take them a while, as they don't seem to be seeing the right answers right now.

    But its good to step out of the bubble every now and again.
    No one less in a political bubble, who still frequents this site, could you find. In fact, I write ‘frequents’ but I am frequently absent from here for weeks, months.

    I chat to real people. I don’t own a car but travel instead on trains and buses, very occasionally planes. I shop at Lidl and take my son to football matches. I talk to people who generally have no interest in politics. My Surrey tory-voting friend spends very little time on politics but she is in rage at the moment.

    That is what I encounter everywhere with ordinary people. Raw fury at the tories. They fucked up their mortgages, their heating bills, their roads, their councils, their overseas and domestic travel, their shopping bills, and their NHS.
    I think you’re half right but I don’t think it feels like ‘97 because the real hatred isn’t there. In ‘97 the Tories were seen as the baddies, but now they are just viewed as rubbish.

    The real danger is that there is no immediate prospect of anything feeling much better very soon. Blair could turn the spending taps on in 2001. Starmer doesn’t have the option as the bath is full. The danger is an actual populist exploiting this next time round - someone who is actually all the things Boris got accused of being.
    Starmer will have the twin economic tailwinds of Rejoin and Irish unification.
    LOL.

    Plus global nuclear disarmament, world peace, and all the good will our reprisals for slavery bring? You’re right. A new golden age.
    There is no chance of Irish unification in the near future.

    This is because there is a substantial block of the Catholic community who would vote against. This has been seen, clearly, in polls for decades.

    Even among those who vote for explicitly Republican parties - when SF was devoting armed violence to unite Ireland, a substantial block of their voters said that they would vote No in a referendum.

    Until this changes, SF won't seriously ask for a Border Poll.
    I'm not an expert, and I certainly take what you say as true, but I do think there is a sea change amongst young people. Set against the backdrop of climate catastrophe, a new Cold War, genocide, etc. some of these seemingly intractable, generational objections are melting away.

    I think a bigger blocker might be some of the practical issues like 'what happens to NHS access in the North'?
    The NHS would be the main reason for most of what would be the (minority) pro-Union vote among Catholics in the 6C.

    For Ireland to be reunified, there'd have to be a referendum in the 26C too, in which a pro-reunification victory wouldn't be a dead cert.

    But it's not as if all Protestants (or whose parents were or are in that category) would vote for the Union.
    Is it just me, or is NI getting ever more progressive, given the recent rise of SF and Alliance, whereas the Republic is getting ever more right-wing, given anti-immigrant sentiment, and the rejection of changes to the "women should stay at home" bits of the Constitution?
    NI may eventually want to be an independent nation in the EU.


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak is unchanged, while approval for
    @Keir_Starmer increases by five points.

    Presumably as a result of all the things Starmer has done in the last few weeks. Checks. Nope - he hasn't done anything...

    Oh wait - he was on Fantasy Football...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @DeltapollUK

    When it comes to perceived economic competence, the gap between
    @UKLabour and @Conservatives now stands at sixteen percentage points.

    Come back next week for updates on all of our weekly trackers.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    She wasnt doing the toughest job in the world.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    She wasnt doing the toughest job in the world.
    But she was our Queen, ie. Head of State.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,123
    NY Times look ahead to coming week:

    "The big things to watch this week are whether Biden has picked up any support among voters post-State of the Union in the coming batch of public opinion polls and surveys, and whether Trump shows any signs of weakness — not just in those polls, but in the Ohio Senate primary on Tuesday, where his preferred Republican candidate is in a tough three-way battle for the nomination."
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,771

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    Reform are going nowhere. They have the potential to cost a lot of Tories their seats but not by being elected themselves. Instead they will let Labour in with a comfortable majority and probably for the next 10 years. How does that advance their agenda? Pointless.

    The crank left have agitated against capitalism for decades. There is zero chance of them actually gaining power *and implementing* their agenda, but they do so regardless.

    Why is the crank right any different?
    The main difference is that the right wing cranks seem to be able to attract almost 10% of the vote, mainly at the cost of the Conservatives, whilst the left wing cranks don't really trouble the scorers. But I agree that as cranks they have a lot in common.
    The crank left seem to go Green, these days.
    True, the water melon vote.
    The Greens are being used as Spare Labour, at the moment.
    Greens like BJO loathe Labour, however.
    I'm a member and I don't think I know anybody who would be tempted to vote Labour.

    Starmer's shithousery over Gaza alone is enough to put anyone off.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead increases to twenty-three points in our latest results.
    Con 23% (-4)
    Lab 46% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (-1)
    Reform 12% (+1)
    SNP 2% (-)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Other 3% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 15th-18th March 2024
    Sample: 2,072 GB adults
    (Changes from 8th-11th March 2024)

    Broken, sleazy, RACIST Tories on the slide! :lol:
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    She wasnt doing the toughest job in the world.
    But she was our Queen, ie. Head of State.
    The PM does the hard bits.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,452

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak is unchanged, while approval for
    @Keir_Starmer increases by five points.

    Presumably as a result of all the things Starmer has done in the last few weeks. Checks. Nope - he hasn't done anything...

    Oh wait - he was on Fantasy Football...
    OK, Deltapoll does bounce like a bouncy thing, but my guess is that it's the Rochdale failure fading from public consciousness.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    She wasnt doing the toughest job in the world.
    But she was our Queen, ie. Head of State.
    The PM does the hard bits.
    The Civil service does the hard bits, they just let the PM think he or she is doing it...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,473
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead increases to twenty-three points in our latest results.
    Con 23% (-4)
    Lab 46% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (-1)
    Reform 12% (+1)
    SNP 2% (-)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Other 3% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 15th-18th March 2024
    Sample: 2,072 GB adults
    (Changes from 8th-11th March 2024)

    Tax "cutting" budget bounce!
    The solution seems to be...one more similar event and the scales before the voters' eyes will fall.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Wasn't there a story that one of the Blair children was conceived at Balmoral because QEII scrimped on the heating?
    They could keep warm by just spooning. Tony and Cherie.
    Not an image I wanted.
    Tories = Liverpool
    Labour = Man Utd.

    :innocent:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    She wasnt doing the toughest job in the world.
    But she was our Queen, ie. Head of State.
    The PM does the hard bits.
    Including accepting more donations from Racists?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,615

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak is unchanged, while approval for
    @Keir_Starmer increases by five points.

    Presumably as a result of all the things Starmer has done in the last few weeks. Checks. Nope - he hasn't done anything...

    Oh wait - he was on Fantasy Football...
    OK, Deltapoll does bounce like a bouncy thing, but my guess is that it's the Rochdale failure fading from public consciousness.
    Personally I think it is the chaos at the heart of the conservative government

    Divided and infighting is a very bad look and will see them have a really terrible GE
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    This is about as convincing as that bit in Julius Caesar where he makes a show of refusing the imperial crown.

    Mordaunt has told pals publicly slapping down plotters would only add fuel to fire.

    Told she doesn’t wish to add legitimacy so no statement yet

    Source close: “Everyone knows it's nonsense and that people unfriendly to Penny like to stir up trouble"

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1769701263325757670
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    She wasnt doing the toughest job in the world.
    But she was our Queen, ie. Head of State.
    The PM does the hard bits.
    Including accepting more donations from Racists?
    If racists want to be relieved of their money thats a good thing. Theyll have less available for causing trouble.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    This is the point I’ve been making for years.
    Which doesn’t make it correct of course.

    The article appears confused and conflates two different issues: winning a landslide and ability to make an impact afterwards.

    Those two dimensions are linked only if you believe that the latter is why people will vote at the GE.

    However, this is a fallacy. Most people voting this time will be passing judgement, not looking into a crystal ball.

    My contention is that voting against is a far more powerful motivation than voting for. This time people have raw hatred of the tories. Fury. Horror of what has happened.

    The article, and the state of things, is neatly summed up by its own comment:

    "winning a landslide on a wave of popular goodwill looks like a tall order. The data shows that on almost every economic metric the country is doing worse now than it was in 1997.”

    But that’s the point. The landslide won’t happen because of popular goodwill and optimism. It will happen because of ill-will and fury.
    "This time people have raw hatred of the tories. Fury. Horror of what has happened. "

    If the only you people you talk to all day are obsessed with politics then maybe this is the word that you see. its here on PB for sure. But in the real world? People are talking about the footy, the rugby, the weather, Kate Middleton sorry, the Princess of Wales etc etc.

    I have little doubt of a thumping Labour win and its time that the Tories went home again to think again. It may take them a while, as they don't seem to be seeing the right answers right now.

    But its good to step out of the bubble every now and again.
    No one less in a political bubble, who still frequents this site, could you find. In fact, I write ‘frequents’ but I am frequently absent from here for weeks, months.

    I chat to real people. I don’t own a car but travel instead on trains and buses, very occasionally planes. I shop at Lidl and take my son to football matches. I talk to people who generally have no interest in politics. My Surrey tory-voting friend spends very little time on politics but she is in rage at the moment.

    That is what I encounter everywhere with ordinary people. Raw fury at the tories. They fucked up their mortgages, their heating bills, their roads, their councils, their overseas and domestic travel, their shopping bills, and their NHS.
    Also you boil water in the morning then keep any leftover hot water in “thermos flasks” so as to save money

    That’s when you’re not travelling on buses, trains and planes, or spending a lot of time abroad like me, or taking tea with your Surrey based “Tory voting friend” - do you bring your thermos of hot water to these tea time chats to save her some money?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @theipaper

    Opinion | Even Rishi’s ring-binder can’t stop the Tory death spiral

    Emotional intelligence is the missing ingredient in the Sunak mix and it is coming to dominate everything, as both voters and MPs ask whether the PM really gets it, writes
    @KateEMcCann

    https://t.co/yDwgIOZrnE
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    *checks weather in London*

    Jesus fecking Christ. It’s still shit isn’t it? March is basically another month of winter in Britain
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,651
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    It's actually quite nice. But you won't be able to go outside wearing just a teeny pair of shorts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    When was the last time a party refused the nomination to a sitting President who wanted to run ?
    And the GOP is now a cult.

    The only way you didn't get this outcome would have been Hillary beating Trump the first time round.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    It’s not tepid warmth I crave. It’s spring sunshine

    This looks dull as fuckery. This is January all over again



  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,834

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    Queen Lizzie made it to 96! No one questioned her faculties!
    But she clearly wasn't fit for her last few years. It would have been better for her to have handed over by the time she was 90. Granted, that's still older than Biden will be by 2029, never mind Trump, but then it's also a very different job.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Fuck this shit

    *stays in colombia*
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,771

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    DJT has good genetics. His revolting father lived to a right old age. Biden's father was from the pre-pottery Palaeolithic before the advent of written language so we don't know how old he was.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Me too. And the USA has better fitter mentally more astute candidates than these two gentlemen.

    There are other candidates and nobody has to vote for them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    It's actually quite nice. But you won't be able to go outside wearing just a teeny pair of shorts.
    A relief to all after yesterday's Farage header.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
    No it didn’t


  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,391
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil

    Rishi Sunak hints the Tories would accept another £5 million from 'racism' storm donor Frank Hester

    The spineless gimp is still lying .

    Hester did not apologize for his racist comments .
    Have we got to the "we need to move on" stage yet? They figure if they just talk shite for long enough people will get tired of it. They're right.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,944
    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    Saturday here was glorious (I posted such). Lovely sunny day. Long walk in the countryside in the morning, Lawn mowed in the afternoon. Looks like you have missed Spring.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683
    Leon said:

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    It’s not tepid warmth I crave. It’s spring sunshine

    This looks dull as fuckery. This is January all over again



    Not entirely sure how you would know what the weather is like in the UK winter as you are never actually here.
    But I have to say it has been notably grey and wet this winter. But as I type this a ray of sunshine bursts through and illuminates the ancient stone work of my University building (surely shitty old concrete blocks? - Ed) and there is hope for the future. Despite the grey and the rain, the plants are cracking on. Rhododendrons coming out at Heavens Gate, daffodils looking superb and the first signs of my tulips cresting free of their green shells.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    .
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
    No it didn’t


    It did where I am.
    Appropriately, God's own county.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,958
    Mr. Leon, the weather (BBC) reckons it's 14 feels like 13 and overcast here but it's bright sunshine and blue sky, and so warm I was sweating in a t-shirt.

    Anyway, I must be off. My new PF2 player book won't read itself.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    You have quite low climatic standards but I admire your ability to go out in a tee shirt at 13-14C


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    edited March 18

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Me too. And the USA has better fitter mentally more astute candidates than these two gentlemen.

    There are other candidates and nobody has to vote for them.
    And (almost) nobody will vote for them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
    No it didn’t


    Ever wondered if you are living in a computer simulation? Preferring a computerised report of the weather to an actual human observer may just be the first step.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,651

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Yep. The risk with Biden is he won't be able to complete a term. This would need to be managed. There's that same risk with Trump (albeit less likely to be managed) and then there's umpteen other Trump-specific risks with him. It's really not an equivalence except in this one matter of age.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683
    Leon said:

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    You have quite low climatic standards but I admire your ability to go out in a tee shirt at 13-14C


    If the sun is out and there is not much wind 13 deg C is pleasant enough in a T-shirt.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholascecil

    Rishi Sunak hints the Tories would accept another £5 million from 'racism' storm donor Frank Hester

    The spineless gimp is still lying .

    Hester did not apologize for his racist comments .
    Who was sitting on the story since 2019? They can't have thought it was particularly urgent to bring it to anyone's attention.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,651
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    It's actually quite nice. But you won't be able to go outside wearing just a teeny pair of shorts.
    A relief to all after yesterday's Farage header.
    Yes, I didn't enjoy that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Yep. The risk with Biden is he won't be able to complete a term. This would need to be managed. There's that same risk with Trump (albeit less likely to be managed) and then there's umpteen other Trump-specific risks with him. It's really not an equivalence except in this one matter of age.
    It's pretty clear who Biden's VP will be.
    Which weirdo will Trump pick ?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Yep. The risk with Biden is he won't be able to complete a term. This would need to be managed. There's that same risk with Trump (albeit less likely to be managed) and then there's umpteen other Trump-specific risks with him. It's really not an equivalence except in this one matter of age.
    The risk with Trump is that he will be able to complete a term.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak is unchanged, while approval for
    @Keir_Starmer increases by five points.

    Presumably as a result of all the things Starmer has done in the last few weeks. Checks. Nope - he hasn't done anything...

    Oh wait - he was on Fantasy Football...
    OK, Deltapoll does bounce like a bouncy thing, but my guess is that it's the Rochdale failure fading from public consciousness.
    Hestergate and putative Morduant coup more likely drivers of this movement I think
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    “Warm congratulations” from Modi

    https://x.com/narendramodi/status/1769695046268309797

    Warm congratulations to H.E. Mr. Vladimir Putin on his re-election as the President of the Russian Federation. Look forward to working together to further strengthen the time-tested Special & Privileged Strategic Partnership between India and Russia in the years to come.
    @KremlinRussia
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582

    Leon said:

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    It’s not tepid warmth I crave. It’s spring sunshine

    This looks dull as fuckery. This is January all over again



    Not entirely sure how you would know what the weather is like in the UK winter as you are never actually here.
    But I have to say it has been notably grey and wet this winter. But as I type this a ray of sunshine bursts through and illuminates the ancient stone work of my University building (surely shitty old concrete blocks? - Ed) and there is hope for the future. Despite the grey and the rain, the plants are cracking on. Rhododendrons coming out at Heavens Gate, daffodils looking superb and the first signs of my tulips cresting free of their green shells.
    I hate grey sunless British weather so much I think it can affect my mood even if I’m only reading about it, in distant parts

    For the purposes of clarity, I should add that this is entirely untrue, and a total lie; seeing the weather forecast in GB just makes me appreciate my present weather all the more

    Buenas Dias! I’m having more yellow dragon fruit. I am a complete convert. Fabulous for breakfast with a Diet Coke and a Tramadol


  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Scott_xP said:

    @theipaper

    Opinion | Even Rishi’s ring-binder can’t stop the Tory death spiral

    Emotional intelligence is the missing ingredient in the Sunak mix and it is coming to dominate everything, as both voters and MPs ask whether the PM really gets it, writes
    @KateEMcCann

    https://t.co/yDwgIOZrnE

    I don't even put this down to emotional intelligence. If he was willing to propose and enact policies that would actually help people, still being the feckless wet hen he is, I think people would cut him more slack. The issue is that no politician seems up for proposing things people like and know will help them - which would be more government spending on services and increased taxes on those with high levels of wealth and income, alongside sensible regulation to counter the inflation we have seen in the last 6 months. People aren't stupid - they see their electric and gas bills increase at the same time headlines cry how much profit these companies are making. People see their Council Tax go up and local services and roads crumble. They just want things to be less shit.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    148grss said:

    They just want things to be less shit.

    Which is why Starmer is heading for a landslide
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Yep. The risk with Biden is he won't be able to complete a term. This would need to be managed. There's that same risk with Trump (albeit less likely to be managed) and then there's umpteen other Trump-specific risks with him. It's really not an equivalence except in this one matter of age.
    It's pretty clear who Biden's VP will be.
    Which weirdo will Trump pick ?
    My money is on Kari Lake - failed Arizona governor and senate candidate who is a Big Lie truther. Used to be on TV, very photogenic, part of the cult and is charismatic enough (if completely insane). She's a woman, which Trump will like, and she's a fighter.

    I was watching a youtuber I like do an undercover expose of CPAC from this year... if Trump wins then the US is going to go full Christo-fascist. Very scary imo.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @PippaCrerar
    Not exactly the most ringing endorsement for Rishi Sunak from his former defence secretary, Ben Wallace, on @TimesRadio this morning 👇

    "Whether colleagues are happy with him or not, it's too late, right. Get on with it."

    @IanDunt

    They should make that the election slogan. "It's too late. Just get on with it."
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK

    Net approval for the Prime Minister @RishiSunak is unchanged, while approval for
    @Keir_Starmer increases by five points.

    Presumably as a result of all the things Starmer has done in the last few weeks. Checks. Nope - he hasn't done anything...

    Oh wait - he was on Fantasy Football...
    OK, Deltapoll does bounce like a bouncy thing, but my guess is that it's the Rochdale failure fading from public consciousness.
    Was it ever in the public consciousness? Most people have probably never heard of Rochdale, never mind the Rochdale By-election.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Donkeys said:

    Donkeys said:

    Truman said:

    On the topic of Putins "popularity" russian gdp per head is up 11 fold between 1999 and 2024. Thats a massive increase in standard of living at a time when the uk has stagnated.

    per annum per capita growth for a quarter of a century. Impressive.
    Do you get double the pay for using two logins at once?
    I was joking! It's obvious that standards of living in Russia haven't increased by 10% each year for 25 years.
    It's almost like Russia benefited massively from the commodities boom of the last quarter century.

    With that said, Outside Moscow and St.Petersburg, there's very little evidence of prosperity in Russia. Most of rural, and small city, Russia is dirt poor, with little commerce, and few prospects. Much of the country still has dirt tracks rather than paved roads.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,179

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    First?

    Reform are going nowhere. They have the potential to cost a lot of Tories their seats but not by being elected themselves. Instead they will let Labour in with a comfortable majority and probably for the next 10 years. How does that advance their agenda? Pointless.

    The crank left have agitated against capitalism for decades. There is zero chance of them actually gaining power *and implementing* their agenda, but they do so regardless.

    Why is the crank right any different?
    The main difference is that the right wing cranks seem to be able to attract almost 10% of the vote, mainly at the cost of the Conservatives, whilst the left wing cranks don't really trouble the scorers. But I agree that as cranks they have a lot in common.
    The crank left seem to go Green, these days.
    True, the water melon vote.
    The Greens are being used as Spare Labour, at the moment.
    Greens like BJO loathe Labour, however.
    Nothing "green" about some of these so-called Greens.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    Scott_xP said:

    @DeltapollUK
    🚨New Voting Intention🚨
    Labour lead increases to twenty-three points in our latest results.
    Con 23% (-4)
    Lab 46% (+2)
    Lib Dem 9% (-1)
    Reform 12% (+1)
    SNP 2% (-)
    Green 5% (+1)
    Other 3% (+1)
    Fieldwork: 15th-18th March 2024
    Sample: 2,072 GB adults
    (Changes from 8th-11th March 2024)

    Up to this point Deltapoll hadn't been one of those companies which tended to produce the largest Labour leads.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Scott_xP said:

    148grss said:

    They just want things to be less shit.

    Which is why Starmer is heading for a landslide
    I agree. I just think people won't give Starmer very long before they expect things to be less shit, and nothing Starmer is currently proposing seems to be aimed at making life less shit - so I expect both a Labour landslide in the next GE and then mass dissatisfaction with them in a year or so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    148grss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @theipaper

    Opinion | Even Rishi’s ring-binder can’t stop the Tory death spiral

    Emotional intelligence is the missing ingredient in the Sunak mix and it is coming to dominate everything, as both voters and MPs ask whether the PM really gets it, writes
    @KateEMcCann

    https://t.co/yDwgIOZrnE

    I don't even put this down to emotional intelligence. If he was willing to propose and enact policies that would actually help people, still being the feckless wet hen he is, I think people would cut him more slack. The issue is that no politician seems up for proposing things people like and know will help them - which would be more government spending on services and increased taxes on those with high levels of wealth and income, alongside sensible regulation to counter the inflation we have seen in the last 6 months. People aren't stupid - they see their electric and gas bills increase at the same time headlines cry how much profit these companies are making. People see their Council Tax go up and local services and roads crumble. They just want things to be less shit.
    Trouble is, taxes are already high

    If you increase taxes on the wealthy they will just fuck off abroad - like me. So many jobs can now be done remotely - and thanks to digital nomad visas other countries are making it highly feasible to move to sunnier climes with much lower tax rates. Ok these new places will have less fascinating cultural diversity and fewer menacing pro Palestinian rallies and you’ve got to put up with nightlife that actually goes on after 11pm but nothing is perfect
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
    No it didn’t


    Ever wondered if you are living in a computer simulation? Preferring a computerised report of the weather to an actual human observer may just be the first step.
    Leon spamming the site about the weather in England when he is many thousands of miles away from England is akin to that enduring PB classic 'guess Boris' weight' in the thrill stakes.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    When was the last time a party refused the nomination to a sitting President who wanted to run ?
    And the GOP is now a cult.

    The only way you didn't get this outcome would have been Hillary beating Trump the first time round.
    If only she'd beaten Obama in 2008, the world would be in a much better place now.

    (Or possibly a post apocalyptic wasteland).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,771
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Yep. The risk with Biden is he won't be able to complete a term. This would need to be managed. There's that same risk with Trump (albeit less likely to be managed) and then there's umpteen other Trump-specific risks with him. It's really not an equivalence except in this one matter of age.
    It's pretty clear who Biden's VP will be.
    Which weirdo will Trump pick ?
    Kristi Noem is slavishly loyal to Trump personally and MAGA in general and has the look DJT likes (50% real estate sales reptile, 50% retired pole dancer)
    Ditto Elise Stefanik but apparently her surname is "too ethnic" for Trump.
    Tim Scott would probably make the most sense electorally but might be a bit too personally ambitious and a bit too personally black for Trump.

    It's hard to see past those three, but who the fuck knows. I think if Trump had his way and took no notice of his advisors it would be Ivanka.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,651

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Note Starmer will have a far more difficult economic situation to deal with if he becomes PM than Blair did in 1997.

    'An analysis of economic and polling data by the political consultancy Public First shows the country has lower wage growth, higher levels of debt and less affordable housing than it did when Labour last ousted the Conservatives from power..The economy grew 4.9% in 1997, following nearly five years where it did not shrink in a single quarter. This year, the Office for Budget Responsibility forecasts it will grow just 0.6%.

    Wage growth had been strong for years before the 1997 election and was 2.6% in the election year. This year, the OBR thinks it will be just 0.1%.

    This had a knock-on effect on the government’s finances. In 1997, public sector net debt was 37.5% of gross domestic product. It is now over 90%.'
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/18/labour-landslide-will-be-much-harder-to-achieve-than-in-1997-analysis-shows
    However SKS won't be burdened with the hopes and dreams of a nation as Blair was. It will be easier for him to overdeliver against expectations.
    A very political stance. Low expectations are not the same as improving the national outlook.

    Lets put this in perspective

    We have low growth
    We have massive debts
    We need about 5 millions dwellings and the commensurate infrastructure
    We have a migration problem and the much larger problem of workforce participation
    We need productivity and investment
    We have a war in Ukraine

    And Starmer is just the man for the job because he sacked Corbyn, The equivalent of reorganising the filing in Labour HQ,

    Your hope is based on all of us accepting decline is good enough.

    Personally I dont.

    On housing, one factor has been the growth of older people splitting up and living on their own. What the nations needs is an oldies dating programme. Get all those selfish old folk out of their three bed houses and coupled up once again. More sex for the elderly, more houses for the young...
    On the other hand there's Joe and Jill Biden at it like a couple in a french brothel and they still wont let go of that big white house in the middle of Washington. I dread to think what the Blairs do in their 9 houses.
    Biden at the Gridiron.

    “ One candidate is too old, mentally unfit to be president: The other’s me. You know he ain’t the same guy that I beat in 2020…But don’t tell him. He thinks he’s running against Barack Obama.
    ...And another big difference between us — I know what I value most; I'm Jill Biden's husband. And I know her name. ”
    Actually, its all pretty good stuff: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2024/03/17/remarks-by-president-biden-at-the-gridiron-club-and-foundation-dinner-march-16-2024/

    The senile and too old argument is really being taken apart. If they can bring home the message of what they have achieved on the economy it should be easier than 2020.
    He is too old. So is Trump.

    The USA should not be having this choice.
    True. But Biden is certainly not senile. (Nor is Trump, for that matter, although he is increasingly living in an echo chamber of his own paranoia and delusions - but that's a different mental condition).
    Oh right so Biden will just be getting fitter over the next 4 years, Will he be doing the 100m at the Olympics in Paris ?

    Who am I to believe, you or the evidence of my own eyes ? Tough call.

    I never said anything about either man's physical fitness. FWIW, I think there's a probability that whichever is elected won't see out his term. Trump is obese, stressed and with an awful diet; Biden looks frail.

    Feel free to believe whatever you want. I'm just calling it as I see it.
    Yep. The risk with Biden is he won't be able to complete a term. This would need to be managed. There's that same risk with Trump (albeit less likely to be managed) and then there's umpteen other Trump-specific risks with him. It's really not an equivalence except in this one matter of age.
    The risk with Trump is that he will be able to complete a term.
    Indeed. There's risk every which way with Trump2. And if he loses but it's close.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    148grss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    148grss said:

    They just want things to be less shit.

    Which is why Starmer is heading for a landslide
    I agree. I just think people won't give Starmer very long before they expect things to be less shit, and nothing Starmer is currently proposing seems to be aimed at making life less shit - so I expect both a Labour landslide in the next GE and then mass dissatisfaction with them in a year or so.
    Opinion poll October 2025:

    Reform: 28%
    Labour: 24%
    Lib Dem: 16%
    Conservative: 15%
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
    No it didn’t


    Ever wondered if you are living in a computer simulation? Preferring a computerised report of the weather to an actual human observer may just be the first step.
    Leon spamming the site about the weather in England when he is many thousands of miles away from England is akin to that enduring PB classic 'guess Boris' weight' in the thrill stakes.
    No. I’d say it’s about as entertaining as you telling us the virtues of the cashless society. Again
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    Leon said:

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    You have quite low climatic standards but I admire your ability to go out in a tee shirt at 13-14C


    It's been bright sunshine here all day, 15 miles or so east of Leeds. I was out at dinner time in my t-shirt for a half hour walk. Lovely to feel the sun on my skin. About time like.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @theipaper

    Opinion | Even Rishi’s ring-binder can’t stop the Tory death spiral

    Emotional intelligence is the missing ingredient in the Sunak mix and it is coming to dominate everything, as both voters and MPs ask whether the PM really gets it, writes
    @KateEMcCann

    https://t.co/yDwgIOZrnE

    I don't even put this down to emotional intelligence. If he was willing to propose and enact policies that would actually help people, still being the feckless wet hen he is, I think people would cut him more slack. The issue is that no politician seems up for proposing things people like and know will help them - which would be more government spending on services and increased taxes on those with high levels of wealth and income, alongside sensible regulation to counter the inflation we have seen in the last 6 months. People aren't stupid - they see their electric and gas bills increase at the same time headlines cry how much profit these companies are making. People see their Council Tax go up and local services and roads crumble. They just want things to be less shit.
    Trouble is, taxes are already high

    If you increase taxes on the wealthy they will just fuck off abroad - like me. So many jobs can now be done remotely - and thanks to digital nomad visas other countries are making it highly feasible to move to sunnier climes with much lower tax rates. Ok these new places will have less fascinating cultural diversity and fewer menacing pro Palestinian rallies and you’ve got to put up with nightlife that actually goes on after 11pm but nothing is perfect
    Taxes on high incomes are not that high, especially for those marginal few making millions a year. And for those people, yes they can go abroad if they wish, but they almost certainly won't wish because they work here and London is the cultural capital of the English speaking world.

    As well as that we could do some innovative wealth taxes - land value taxes, taxes on second and third homes, taxes on certain trading practices that magic money out of 1s and 0s, etc. At the end of the day money needs to move more efficiently than it currently is, and rich people are sitting on money and assets rather than spending it in the economy. If you give poorer people money, they'll spend - which in many instances will grow the economy without causing inflation (the recent bout of inflation being caused by supply chain issues rather than too much cash being in the economy). Manage that, and you'll get what every capitalist should supposedly want - happy workers and a good market. It will just lower some top level profits somewhat.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,075
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    It’s not tepid warmth I crave. It’s spring sunshine

    This looks dull as fuckery. This is January all over again



    Not entirely sure how you would know what the weather is like in the UK winter as you are never actually here.
    But I have to say it has been notably grey and wet this winter. But as I type this a ray of sunshine bursts through and illuminates the ancient stone work of my University building (surely shitty old concrete blocks? - Ed) and there is hope for the future. Despite the grey and the rain, the plants are cracking on. Rhododendrons coming out at Heavens Gate, daffodils looking superb and the first signs of my tulips cresting free of their green shells.
    I hate grey sunless British weather so much I think it can affect my mood even if I’m only reading about it, in distant parts

    For the purposes of clarity, I should add that this is entirely untrue, and a total lie; seeing the weather forecast in GB just makes me appreciate my present weather all the more

    Buenas Dias! I’m having more yellow dragon fruit. I am a complete convert. Fabulous for breakfast with a Diet Coke and a Tramadol


    Buenos Dias indeed!
    Blue skies and harmless fluffy clouds in Manchester right now.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    edited March 18
    rcs1000 said:

    Donkeys said:

    Donkeys said:

    Truman said:

    On the topic of Putins "popularity" russian gdp per head is up 11 fold between 1999 and 2024. Thats a massive increase in standard of living at a time when the uk has stagnated.

    per annum per capita growth for a quarter of a century. Impressive.
    Do you get double the pay for using two logins at once?
    I was joking! It's obvious that standards of living in Russia haven't increased by 10% each year for 25 years.
    It's almost like Russia benefited massively from the commodities boom of the last quarter century.

    With that said, Outside Moscow and St.Petersburg, there's very little evidence of prosperity in Russia. Most of rural, and small city, Russia is dirt poor, with little commerce, and few prospects. Much of the country still has dirt tracks rather than paved roads.
    Hmmmm

    Not sure that’s completely true

    Russia is vast and varied. There are definitely huge regions which are shockingly poor

    But also unexpected areas of prosperity - the commodity rich north or the pacific coast or down south around the Black Sea - they can be rather nice
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Mr. Leon's, it's bizarrely warm in Yorkshire. T-shirt weather.

    It’s not tepid warmth I crave. It’s spring sunshine

    This looks dull as fuckery. This is January all over again



    Not entirely sure how you would know what the weather is like in the UK winter as you are never actually here.
    But I have to say it has been notably grey and wet this winter. But as I type this a ray of sunshine bursts through and illuminates the ancient stone work of my University building (surely shitty old concrete blocks? - Ed) and there is hope for the future. Despite the grey and the rain, the plants are cracking on. Rhododendrons coming out at Heavens Gate, daffodils looking superb and the first signs of my tulips cresting free of their green shells.
    I hate grey sunless British weather so much I think it can affect my mood even if I’m only reading about it, in distant parts

    For the purposes of clarity, I should add that this is entirely untrue, and a total lie; seeing the weather forecast in GB just makes me appreciate my present weather all the more

    Buenas Dias! I’m having more yellow dragon fruit. I am a complete convert. Fabulous for breakfast with a Diet Coke and a Tramadol


    Buenos Dias indeed!
    Blue skies and harmless fluffy clouds in Manchester right now.

    That’s better. Thankyou

    I don’t actually WANT my fellow Brits to be immersed in grey murk for ever and ever
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    148grss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    148grss said:

    They just want things to be less shit.

    Which is why Starmer is heading for a landslide
    I agree. I just think people won't give Starmer very long before they expect things to be less shit, and nothing Starmer is currently proposing seems to be aimed at making life less shit - so I expect both a Labour landslide in the next GE and then mass dissatisfaction with them in a year or so.
    The PB Tory-Lefties seem to swing daily from:

    • SKS is a Red Tory who will change nothing at all
    • SKS is a closet socialist revolutionary who has a secret plan to launch a state-mandated kleptocracy after two years in power
    • SKS an incompetent but lucky general who will preside over chaos and be hated within 12 months of power
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Good afternoon

    Managed to strim and cut our rear lawn today just 6 weeks after my pacemaker operation

    The pulse rate was excellent throughout but not able to take any liberties as my good lady watches ready to swoop if she thinks i am pushing it ( not the mower)

    Hope to do the front lawn in the next few days

    Now I feel bad for not doing mine!

    Isn’t it a bit wet for mowing the lawn this week? At least the at was my excuse to Mrs Biggles this weekend…..
    Is the weather STILL SHIT in Blighty? I’m meant to be coming home this week but it’s really hard when it is so gorgeous out here and dull and miserable in the YUK
    The sun came out this morning in celebration of your continued foreign sojourn.
    No it didn’t


    Ever wondered if you are living in a computer simulation? Preferring a computerised report of the weather to an actual human observer may just be the first step.
    Leon spamming the site about the weather in England when he is many thousands of miles away from England is akin to that enduring PB classic 'guess Boris' weight' in the thrill stakes.
    No. I’d say it’s about as entertaining as you telling us the virtues of the cashless society. Again
    When did I last bring it up?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453

    Donkeys said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    148grss said:

    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    Why does a large amount of Twitter / X believe that Chaz has kicked the bucket? Is this wishful thinking on the poetry of him dying on St Paddy's day; or is this an outcome of the continued palace silence after the weirdness around Kate and Chaz's illness leading to more conspiratorial thinking?

    You must be new to twitter.
    TBF twitter was ahead of the "official" curve when Lizzy popped her clogs. I know it has got much worse since then, and recent Windsor conspiracies have been abound - but still, we know Charles is ill and I wouldn't be surprised to learn he's popped it.
    The King will be at Trooping the Colour but in a carriage while his cancer treatment continues rather than riding a horse, he certainly is not dead

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/royals/26753071/king-charles-trooping-the-colour-cancer/
    What is the poetry of him dying on St. Patrick's Day?

    Fairly sure Charles isn't dead. The lags between queen's death and internet rumours of queen's death, and between queen's death and actual announcement of queen's death, were about 2 hours and 7 hours respectively. It was hardly hushed up.

    The Kate stuff is weirder by far. Not least because it's hard to see who gains by it.
    +1. The Kate thing is weird. I don't understand the point of any of it. If she is seriously unwell, then just say, and expect privacy. Health issues happen. If its something else? Divorce? Seems unlikely. Is she dead? Even more unlikely. At this point its classic Streissand.
    It's not Streisand. Their comms managers may not get their jobs by being the best in the business, but they're not that stupid.

    The mistake is to assume that if she had a health issue they would necessarily be OK with its nature and cause and circumstances coming out. It's easy to think of scenarios where that wouldn't be so - ones that don't involve the anti-Christ or bad people believing what they read on the internet.
    You believe the story about the photograph? I certainly have my doubts, and I am not
    one to go into conspiracy theories.

    Of course it may just be health issues, but if
    she currently looks as good as she did in
    the photo, then why isn't she back at work?
    She looked amazing.
    My guess is that she has something - like a stoma - that she is embarrassed by. In an ideal world she might be like Charles and cancer and use it as a “teachable moment” but you can’t force her to

    The mistake was faking a photo.

    I stress this is just speculation

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @theipaper

    Opinion | Even Rishi’s ring-binder can’t stop the Tory death spiral

    Emotional intelligence is the missing ingredient in the Sunak mix and it is coming to dominate everything, as both voters and MPs ask whether the PM really gets it, writes
    @KateEMcCann

    https://t.co/yDwgIOZrnE

    I don't even put this down to emotional intelligence. If he was willing to propose and enact policies that would actually help people, still being the feckless wet hen he is, I think people would cut him more slack. The issue is that no politician seems up for proposing things people like and know will help them - which would be more government spending on services and increased taxes on those with high levels of wealth and income, alongside sensible regulation to counter the inflation we have seen in the last 6 months. People aren't stupid - they see their electric and gas bills increase at the same time headlines cry how much profit these companies are making. People see their Council Tax go up and local services and roads crumble. They just want things to be less shit.
    Trouble is, taxes are already high

    If you increase taxes on the wealthy they will just fuck off abroad - like me. So many jobs can now be done remotely - and thanks to digital nomad visas other countries are making it highly feasible to move to sunnier climes with much lower tax rates. Ok these new places will have less fascinating cultural diversity and fewer menacing pro Palestinian rallies and you’ve got to put up with nightlife that actually goes on after 11pm but nothing is perfect
    I was in Hackney on Saturday. The pub we were in closed at 12pm, so we walked up the road (ten minutes) to another pub that was playing pounding music until 2am.

    You are out of touch.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Donkeys said:

    Donkeys said:

    Truman said:

    On the topic of Putins "popularity" russian gdp per head is up 11 fold between 1999 and 2024. Thats a massive increase in standard of living at a time when the uk has stagnated.

    per annum per capita growth for a quarter of a century. Impressive.
    Do you get double the pay for using two logins at once?
    I was joking! It's obvious that standards of living in Russia haven't increased by 10% each year for 25 years.
    It's almost like Russia benefited massively from the commodities boom of the last quarter century.

    With that said, Outside Moscow and St.Petersburg, there's very little evidence of prosperity in Russia. Most of rural, and small city, Russia is dirt poor, with little commerce, and few prospects. Much of the country still has dirt tracks rather than paved roads.
    Hmmmm

    Not sure that’s completely true

    Russia is vast and varied. There are definitely huge regions which are shockingly poor

    But also unexpected areas of prosperity - the commodity rich north or the pacific coast or down south around the Black Sea - they can be rather nice
    Sure, there are little islands of prosperity. But most of Russia makes Albania look prosperous.

    One of the fascinating things I learned early on in the Ukraine war, was that many Russian conscripts were shocked at how wealthy Ukraine felt, and how that was completely at odds with what they'd been told.

This discussion has been closed.