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The warning signs are there for the GOP for November’s election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 12 in General
The warning signs are there for the GOP for November’s election – politicalbetting.com

So 49% of Republicans in Iowa, 44% in NH, and about 40% in South Carolina voted against Trump who is essentially running as an incumbent.Warning signs for Trump’s general election campaign. pic.twitter.com/Chjb5GbF18

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Apols if already discussed, this is going to castrate Trump and other members of the Trump crime family.

    Donald Trump’s penalties in the New York civil fraud case for manipulating the value of his properties to obtain advantageous loan and insurance rates were formally set at more than $454m on Friday.

    The judgment, which includes $354m in penalties plus $100m in pre-judgement interest following the three-month, non-jury trial that concluded on 16 February, will continue to accrue interest if the former president fails to pay.

    Trump has two options to meet the state’s demand: to pay the amount in full, or secure a $35m bond against his assets, which might include the Fifth Avenue Trump Tower, 40 Wall Street, his Mar-a-Lago estate, or a number of golf courses in the US.

    In the finalized ruling Judge Arthur Engoron also ordered Trump’s adult sons, Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump, to each pay nearly $4.7m, and the Trump Organization’s former chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, to pay $1.1 m, all including interest.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/23/trump-penalties-new-york-fraud-case
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,901
    Second. Like the orange one hopefully.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443
    From your keyboard to God’s eyes.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,948
    Endgame for Trump.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,169
    Trump will spin over for 11 months and then do this "ultimate and absolute revenge" if he wins: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/02/24/donald-trump-us-election-2024-joe-biden-republicans-cpac/

    In fact, I think most of his second term will be devoted toward pursuing personal vendettas.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,191
    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.
  • You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    Yes Trump clearly won the conservative and Republican vote and is on course for the nomination again but Independents going for Haley is less good news for him as they will decide the general election. A conviction in one of his criminal trials would only further turn Independents against him
  • Cicero said:

    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.

    There's a couple of theories.

    1) There's a bit of an enthusiasm gap for the Dems/Bidens from pure lefties who want a more radical agenda which shows up in the polls but these voters when it comes to voting day will take a flawed Dem candidate over the GOP.

    2) Abortion, there's a piece out there when abortion is on the ballot paper it boosts turnout which is bad for the GOP.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    Although many also thought Margaret Thatcher was an unelectable hard right-winger too when she replaced Heath as Conservative leader and became Leader of the Opposition in 1975.

    If the economy is bad under a Labour government all bets are off.

    I doubt enough Tory MPs vote for Patel to put her in the final two to get to the membership though
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    edited February 25

    Cicero said:

    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.

    There's a couple of theories.

    1) There's a bit of an enthusiasm gap for the Dems/Bidens from pure lefties who want a more radical agenda which shows up in the polls but these voters when it comes to voting day will take a flawed Dem candidate over the GOP.

    2) Abortion, there's a piece out there when abortion is on the ballot paper it boosts turnout which is bad for the GOP.
    Although abortion can also
    boost evangelical and conservative Roman Catholic turnout for Republican candidates
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,956
    It's not surprising that Independents would favour Haley over Trump, and that's only a problem for Trump in the general if the people voting for Haley are never-Trumpers.

    What I see is that Trump has lost the popular vote twice, but he is still winning the nomination at a canter, and he faces an incumbent President with shockingly bad polling numbers. My American mother-in-law confidently asserted that Trump was finished after the 2020 election on the basis that Americans didn't like losers. Somehow Democrats have failed to make the fact of Trump being a big fat loser stick, and they will pay for that come November.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461
    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,908
    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    If the electorate vote out Sunak, Hunt and Cameron obviously the party will swing right. Just as Labour swung left after the electorate rejected Brown, Mandelson and David Miliband and New Labour in 2010
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878

    Trump will spin over for 11 months and then do this "ultimate and absolute revenge" if he wins: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/02/24/donald-trump-us-election-2024-joe-biden-republicans-cpac/

    In fact, I think most of his second term will be devoted toward pursuing personal vendettas.

    He sounded even more deranged than usual in his victory speech with his ‘get out Joe, you’re fired!’ schtick last night. As everything else recedes spite will be the force that keeps the big orange Golem going,
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited February 25
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    If the electorate vote out Sunak, Hunt and Cameron obviously the party will swing right. Just as Labour swung left after the electorate rejected Brown, Mandelson and David Miliband and New Labour in 2010
    Ed Milliband was in the cabinet. 🤷

    The left and centre of the Tory party, in and outside the current cabinet, need to challenge this neo right wing movement sooner or later. Why wait?
  • You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    It's quite poignant, seeing all this effort and manoeuvring to be a big cheese in opposition, when that's pretty much a contradiction in terms.

    Of course it's possible that Labour will screw up so badly that the Conservatives are going to have a gap year before marching back refreshed.

    But it's much more likely that the next Conservative PM, Chancellor etc are people most of us haven't heard of.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,866
    HYUFD said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    Although many also thought Margaret Thatcher was an unelectable hard right-winger too when she replaced Heath as Conservative leader and became Leader of the Opposition in 1975.

    If the economy is bad under a Labour government all bets are off.

    I doubt enough Tory MPs vote for Patel to put her in the final two to get to the membership though
    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.
  • Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    And Boris slung a lot of them out when he did that thing PB Tories wrongly told us Jeremy Corbyn would do and Gordon Brown had done.

    The trouble now is that after Boris and Liz Truss, Rishi's schtick was that the adults were back in charge but unfortunately he has since been cos-playing Boris and voters see through it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited February 25
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Right wing populism is the ultimate dead end for the right.

    It’s not about “one nation” Tories it’s about old skool entrepreneurial Thatcherite Tories needing to standup and regain their party from the ideological pop con neo right.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443

    Cicero said:

    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.

    There's a couple of theories.

    1) There's a bit of an enthusiasm gap for the Dems/Bidens from pure lefties who want a more radical agenda which shows up in the polls but these voters when it comes to voting day will take a flawed Dem candidate over the GOP.

    2) Abortion, there's a piece out there when abortion is on the ballot paper it boosts turnout which is bad for the GOP.
    2) But we’ve seen the Dems do better than their polling in elections where abortion hasn’t been on the ballot.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,203
    Polling hasn't consistently underestimated Dems and overestimated GOP in recent elections.
  • Cicero said:

    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.

    There's a couple of theories.

    1) There's a bit of an enthusiasm gap for the Dems/Bidens from pure lefties who want a more radical agenda which shows up in the polls but these voters when it comes to voting day will take a flawed Dem candidate over the GOP.

    2) Abortion, there's a piece out there when abortion is on the ballot paper it boosts turnout which is bad for the GOP.
    2) But we’ve seen the Dems do better than their polling in elections where abortion hasn’t been on the ballot.
    Yeah sorry, I forgot to add the second point to that. Once the voters backed legislation enshrining abortion into state constitutions, the GOP started talking about a federal ban which has impacted turnout.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,946
    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
  • Glad I am going to miss England lose this match and series.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492

    Cicero said:

    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.

    There's a couple of theories.

    1) There's a bit of an enthusiasm gap for the Dems/Bidens from pure lefties who want a more radical agenda which shows up in the polls but these voters when it comes to voting day will take a flawed Dem candidate over the GOP.

    2) Abortion, there's a piece out there when abortion is on the ballot paper it boosts turnout which is bad for the GOP.
    2) But we’ve seen the Dems do better than their polling in elections where abortion hasn’t been on the ballot.
    I assume it's 1) and 2) not 1) or 2).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    Today I learned what Nibelungentreue means.
  • Cicero said:

    Interesting question as to why the polls consistently underestimate the Dems and overestimate the Republicans, because it certainly seems that they do. Is there a bias in the sample or in the polling companies themselves, in other words is the polling taken to fit a pre-existing bias from those who commission the work?

    In any event it really seems that there is some anecdotal evidence that the Republicans are heading for a thrashing in the Congress even though the polls don´t seem to show this (yet?).

    Of course if the House swings so strongly away from the GOP, then that could be very good news for the Democrats down and up the ticket.

    There's a couple of theories.

    1) There's a bit of an enthusiasm gap for the Dems/Bidens from pure lefties who want a more radical agenda which shows up in the polls but these voters when it comes to voting day will take a flawed Dem candidate over the GOP.

    2) Abortion, there's a piece out there when abortion is on the ballot paper it boosts turnout which is bad for the GOP.
    2) But we’ve seen the Dems do better than their polling in elections where abortion hasn’t been on the ballot.
    I assume it's 1) and 2) not 1) or 2).
    Yah.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919
    ...
    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    In historical terms Sunak wouldn't make it onto the traditional wing. As Johnson ejected the traditional wing and the Party veers right, Sunak appears as a "Leftie".
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,492
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Right wing populism is the ultimate dead end for the right. It’s not about “one nation” Tories it’s about old skool entrepreneurial Thatcherite Tories needing to standup and regain their party from the ideological pop con neo right.
    Right wing populism is on the march right across Europe. From Italy to France to Sweden to Holland - in some places it is triumphant - Hungary

    Is Britain really that different? Isn’t this another kind of British exceptionalism?

    Besides, the Tories have tried everything else. They will also be fired up by a massive culture war stoked by an inevitably Woke Starmer government, the reaction to that could be explosive

    The Tories will never regain power with a promise of “being marginally less left wing than Labour but with just as much migration and all that”

    What’s the appeal for the voter? If Labour fail in office and annoy lots of people then the voters will demand a clear alternative

    Or course Labour might succeed in office. If so, great - I’d like my country to prosper. I just don’t see it happening
  • Government U-turn on plans to double number of medical students in England
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/25/government-u-turn-on-plans-to-double-number-of-medical-students-in-england

    Turns out fixing the doctor shortage was yet another government policy for announcing rather than enacting.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,169
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
  • Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    If the electorate vote out Sunak, Hunt and Cameron obviously the party will swing right. Just as Labour swung left after the electorate rejected Brown, Mandelson and David Miliband and New Labour in 2010
    Ed Milliband was in the cabinet. 🤷

    The left and centre of the Tory party, in and outside the current cabinet, need to challenge this neo right wing movement sooner or later. Why wait?
    Two reasons.

    One is that They're Not Called Wets For Nothing. However agreeable I find that approach to policy, the left of the Conservative Party has been rubbish at fighting for its corner for decades.

    The other is... Who is left to do the fighting? By historical standards, Sunak and Hunt are mainstream right wingers; Rishi is Peter Lilley with an Indian heritage after a hot wash. But between them and, say, Ed Davey, the map is as blank as the East German maps that showed West Berlin as a white void.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,461

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,443
    It also makes it very difficult for medical schools to plan. I would guess they’ve hired new staff to teach the increased numbers, but now won’t be getting the income to pay them.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,933
    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414
  • Surely the problem for hard right Tories is simple:

    Despite weaponising ignorance and stupidity via moron MPs like 30p on GBeebies, most of the country isn’t as mental as they would hope.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,933
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Right wing populism is the ultimate dead end for the right. It’s not about “one nation” Tories it’s about old skool entrepreneurial Thatcherite Tories needing to standup and regain their party from the ideological pop con neo right.
    Right wing populism is on the march right across Europe. From Italy to France to Sweden to Holland - in some places it is triumphant - Hungary

    Is Britain really that different? Isn’t this another kind of British exceptionalism?

    Besides, the Tories have tried everything else. They will also be fired up by a massive culture war stoked by an inevitably Woke Starmer government, the reaction to that could be explosive

    The Tories will never regain power with a promise of “being marginally less left wing than Labour but with just as much migration and all that”

    What’s the appeal for the voter? If Labour fail in office and annoy lots of people then the voters will demand a clear alternative

    Or course Labour might succeed in office. If so, great - I’d like my country to prosper. I just don’t see it happening
    The countries that are embracing right wing populism haven’t been suffering the effects of 14 years of an incompetent government, that happens also to be perceived as right wing and have been trying at times to be populist.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,956
    The way this has worked with the last few changes of government is that parties have swung to the extreme in opposition to secure their base, and then they reach out to the centre once they're bored of being in opposition. Parties can survive a split towards the centre more easily than a challenge from the extreme.

    So, of course, the Tories will swing right in opposition, and they'll hope to banish the Farage Self-Aggrandisement Party comprehensively.

    The question then is whether Labour can do well enough in government to keep a very-right-wing Conservative party in opposition for long enough that they get bored of opposition and move towards the centre. I live in hope rather than expectation.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,640
    What a car crash for Dowden on LK .

    Absolutely pathetic when asked about the stain on humanity Braverman and Truss .
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,780
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Right wing populism is the ultimate dead end for the right.

    It’s not about “one nation” Tories it’s about old skool entrepreneurial Thatcherite Tories needing to standup and regain their party from the ideological pop con neo right.
    These people mostly departed for the political wilderness 5 years ago.
    It isn't realistic to expect all the parties to be exactly the same, people want a choice. It doesn't take much awareness of global political trends to perceive that the gap is on the right. The tories are trying to play to this (with the 'anti woke' policies and the 'small boats' gimmicks)vat the moment, but they aren't very convincing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,466

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    Today I learned what Nibelungentreue means.
    Kadavergehorsam is also a good one.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919
    edited February 25
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    Decapitating traitors is fine, but how do you define a traitor? The Woke (whatever that might be) racial, gender and religious groups we don't like, Socialists, Liberals, perhaps anyone who doesn't self define as a right- winger. But what about the traitors Johnson had to exclude from the Party? The list could be a long one.

    Before you have realised where we are, we have already arrived in Putin's Russia.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,466
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,042

    Apols if already discussed, this is going to castrate Trump and other members of the Trump crime family.

    Donald Trump’s penalties in the New York civil fraud case for manipulating the value of his properties to obtain advantageous loan and insurance rates were formally set at more than $454m on Friday.

    The judgment, which includes $354m in penalties plus $100m in pre-judgement interest following the three-month, non-jury trial that concluded on 16 February, will continue to accrue interest if the former president fails to pay.

    Trump has two options to meet the state’s demand: to pay the amount in full, or secure a $35m bond against his assets, which might include the Fifth Avenue Trump Tower, 40 Wall Street, his Mar-a-Lago estate, or a number of golf courses in the US.

    In the finalized ruling Judge Arthur Engoron also ordered Trump’s adult sons, Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump, to each pay nearly $4.7m, and the Trump Organization’s former chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, to pay $1.1 m, all including interest.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/23/trump-penalties-new-york-fraud-case

    A bond against those assets could be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in. If he fails to put the cash/bond up within the 30 days, then New York state can set about putting liens on his properties prior to a sale.

    Which would definitely be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in.

    Trump goes on trial on felony charges next month around the Stormy Daniels hush-money payments and consequent false accounting. It could be a really, really bad month for him.

    And a really, really good month for Nicky Haley.

    I think there is a material risk that a health-related event - actual or contrived - will mean Trump withdraws from the race. The pressure he is under is massive and would fell a guy thirty years younger. And the pressure is taking a toll. His "speeches" have already descended into the weirdest word salad. I don't see that improving.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,793
    Leon said:

    they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit

    The failure is Brexit
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,793
    @krishgm
    Deputy PM Oliver Dowden very understanding towards colleagues : Lee Anderson didn’t intend to be Islamophobic and wouldn’t have lost the whip if he’d apologised, Suella Braverman didn’t cross the line with her article about Islamists and Liz Truss may not have heard the words she agreed with from Steve Bannon that Tommy Robinson is a hero.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,798
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Right wing populism is the ultimate dead end for the right. It’s not about “one nation” Tories it’s about old skool entrepreneurial Thatcherite Tories needing to standup and regain their party from the ideological pop con neo right.
    Right wing populism is on the march right across Europe. From Italy to France to Sweden to Holland - in some places it is triumphant - Hungary

    Is Britain really that different? Isn’t this another kind of British exceptionalism?

    Besides, the Tories have tried everything else. They will also be fired up by a massive culture war stoked by an inevitably Woke Starmer government, the reaction to that could be explosive

    The Tories will never regain power with a promise of “being marginally less left wing than Labour but with just as much migration and all that”

    What’s the appeal for the voter? If Labour fail in office and annoy lots of people then the voters will demand a clear alternative

    Or course Labour might succeed in office. If so, great - I’d like my country to prosper. I just don’t see it happening
    I think we need to define what we mean by "right wing populism" as distinct from an anti-incumbency bias. If we are talking about an anti-EU anti-immigration line there's no doubt parties advocating that are polling well in many countries (though some better than others).

    However, much of it is also simply an anti-Government vote. Sunak may have been simply unfortunate to come to office at a time when it's tough for Governments everywhere and once elected, the likes of Trump, Bolsonaro and dare I say it, Johnson have all come unstuck.

    Populism in opposition often bumps up against practicality in power - Orban has a majority, most of the other European populists would be junior partners in a coalition (if they get that far) or are reduced to nodding through centre right policies which they probably don't support.

    That's the dilemma - for all the anti-immigation, anti-EU rhetoric, most of these "right" parties are tax and spend social democrats but worse. They offer more public money to their working class and rural bases, tax cuts to their rich allies and have no clue how to square that circle. That's the thing with populism - if you start off being popular with everybody you end up being popular with nobody.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919

    Apols if already discussed, this is going to castrate Trump and other members of the Trump crime family.

    Donald Trump’s penalties in the New York civil fraud case for manipulating the value of his properties to obtain advantageous loan and insurance rates were formally set at more than $454m on Friday.

    The judgment, which includes $354m in penalties plus $100m in pre-judgement interest following the three-month, non-jury trial that concluded on 16 February, will continue to accrue interest if the former president fails to pay.

    Trump has two options to meet the state’s demand: to pay the amount in full, or secure a $35m bond against his assets, which might include the Fifth Avenue Trump Tower, 40 Wall Street, his Mar-a-Lago estate, or a number of golf courses in the US.

    In the finalized ruling Judge Arthur Engoron also ordered Trump’s adult sons, Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump, to each pay nearly $4.7m, and the Trump Organization’s former chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, to pay $1.1 m, all including interest.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/23/trump-penalties-new-york-fraud-case

    A bond against those assets could be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in. If he fails to put the cash/bond up within the 30 days, then New York state can set about putting liens on his properties prior to a sale.

    Which would definitely be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in.

    Trump goes on trial on felony charges next month around the Stormy Daniels hush-money payments and consequent false accounting. It could be a really, really bad month for him.

    And a really, really good month for Nicky Haley.

    I think there is a material risk that a health-related event - actual or contrived - will mean Trump withdraws from the race. The pressure he is under is massive and would fell a guy thirty years younger. And the pressure is taking a toll. His "speeches" have already descended into the weirdest word salad. I don't see that improving.
    Trump is so far down the road to La La Land that he is oblivious to the chaos surrounding him. If he can drag this old nonsense out to 20th January he is home and hosed. All his troubles disappear.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,793

    @Parody_PM

    Oliver Dowden clarifies the situation: Lee Anderson is not racist, but the words he spoke were, although similar words are not racist when Suella Braverman uses them.
    #TrevorPhillips #BBCLauraK
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,466

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    {Joyce Grenfell voice}

    Leon, don't do that.

    {/Joyce Grenfell voice}


    Actually, the problem with fash-curiousity is similar to the one with drugs and kinks. As time passes, you have to go harder and harder to get the same effect.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878
    edited February 25
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
    Bastani? Haven’t heard much from him lately.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919
    Scott_xP said:

    @krishgm
    Deputy PM Oliver Dowden very understanding towards colleagues : Lee Anderson didn’t intend to be Islamophobic and wouldn’t have lost the whip if he’d apologised, Suella Braverman didn’t cross the line with her article about Islamists and Liz Truss may not have heard the words she agreed with from Steve Bannon that Tommy Robinson is a hero.

    I think we have to accept Truss has experienced a permanent cognitive episode (Bannon was sitting beside her for most of the bun-fight) Braverman requires the services of a psychiatric institution and 30p is a Labour plant. Is there another explanation?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,466
    edited February 25

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
    Bastani? Haven’t heard much from him lately.
    Nope, the other Corbyn brother - Piers or Jeremy, whomsoever you didn't mention. Or am I misremembering?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    edited February 25

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    Today I learned what Nibelungentreue means.
    Wotan absolute disgrace.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,866

    Apols if already discussed, this is going to castrate Trump and other members of the Trump crime family.

    Donald Trump’s penalties in the New York civil fraud case for manipulating the value of his properties to obtain advantageous loan and insurance rates were formally set at more than $454m on Friday.

    The judgment, which includes $354m in penalties plus $100m in pre-judgement interest following the three-month, non-jury trial that concluded on 16 February, will continue to accrue interest if the former president fails to pay.

    Trump has two options to meet the state’s demand: to pay the amount in full, or secure a $35m bond against his assets, which might include the Fifth Avenue Trump Tower, 40 Wall Street, his Mar-a-Lago estate, or a number of golf courses in the US.

    In the finalized ruling Judge Arthur Engoron also ordered Trump’s adult sons, Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump, to each pay nearly $4.7m, and the Trump Organization’s former chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, to pay $1.1 m, all including interest.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/23/trump-penalties-new-york-fraud-case

    A bond against those assets could be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in. If he fails to put the cash/bond up within the 30 days, then New York state can set about putting liens on his properties prior to a sale.

    Which would definitely be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in.

    Trump goes on trial on felony charges next month around the Stormy Daniels hush-money payments and consequent false accounting. It could be a really, really bad month for him.

    And a really, really good month for Nicky Haley.

    I think there is a material risk that a health-related event - actual or contrived - will mean Trump withdraws from the race. The pressure he is under is massive and would fell a guy thirty years younger. And the pressure is taking a toll. His "speeches" have already descended into the weirdest word salad. I don't see that improving.
    Trump is so far down the road to La La Land that he is oblivious to the chaos surrounding him. If he can drag this old nonsense out to 20th January he is home and hosed. All his troubles disappear.
    If he can win the election and drag this out to 20th January then he is home and dry - otherwise the pain will continue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    @krishgm
    Deputy PM Oliver Dowden very understanding towards colleagues : Lee Anderson didn’t intend to be Islamophobic and wouldn’t have lost the whip if he’d apologised, Suella Braverman didn’t cross the line with her article about Islamists and Liz Truss may not have heard the words she agreed with from Steve Bannon that Tommy Robinson is a hero.

    Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is bigotry in action.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919
    eek said:

    Apols if already discussed, this is going to castrate Trump and other members of the Trump crime family.

    Donald Trump’s penalties in the New York civil fraud case for manipulating the value of his properties to obtain advantageous loan and insurance rates were formally set at more than $454m on Friday.

    The judgment, which includes $354m in penalties plus $100m in pre-judgement interest following the three-month, non-jury trial that concluded on 16 February, will continue to accrue interest if the former president fails to pay.

    Trump has two options to meet the state’s demand: to pay the amount in full, or secure a $35m bond against his assets, which might include the Fifth Avenue Trump Tower, 40 Wall Street, his Mar-a-Lago estate, or a number of golf courses in the US.

    In the finalized ruling Judge Arthur Engoron also ordered Trump’s adult sons, Donald Trump Jr and Eric Trump, to each pay nearly $4.7m, and the Trump Organization’s former chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, to pay $1.1 m, all including interest.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/23/trump-penalties-new-york-fraud-case

    A bond against those assets could be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in. If he fails to put the cash/bond up within the 30 days, then New York state can set about putting liens on his properties prior to a sale.

    Which would definitely be deemed an event that allows the loans on those properties to be called in.

    Trump goes on trial on felony charges next month around the Stormy Daniels hush-money payments and consequent false accounting. It could be a really, really bad month for him.

    And a really, really good month for Nicky Haley.

    I think there is a material risk that a health-related event - actual or contrived - will mean Trump withdraws from the race. The pressure he is under is massive and would fell a guy thirty years younger. And the pressure is taking a toll. His "speeches" have already descended into the weirdest word salad. I don't see that improving.
    Trump is so far down the road to La La Land that he is oblivious to the chaos surrounding him. If he can drag this old nonsense out to 20th January he is home and hosed. All his troubles disappear.
    If he can win the election and drag this out to 20th January then he is home and dry - otherwise the pain will continue.
    Indeed, and should he succumb to defeat they get a whole lot worse.

    I am yet to be convinced, and of course on the Friday of the same week we get to see whether we voted for another five years of populist Conservatism. I suspect we do.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,878
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
    Bastani? Haven’t heard much from him lately.
    Nope, the other Corbyn brother - Piers or Jeremy, whomsoever you didn't mention. Or am I misremembering?
    I try not to think of the Piers one too much, but the favourite PB meme that Corbyn J. was responsible for Brexit because he was a secret Brexiteer who didn’t campaign hard enough for Remain is tattooed on my memory. I recall Sturgeon also got some of that action because Remain only got 62% in Scotland.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    Decapitating traitors is fine, but how do you define a traitor? The Woke (whatever that might be) racial, gender and religious groups we don't like, Socialists, Liberals, perhaps anyone who doesn't self define as a right- winger. But what about the traitors Johnson had to exclude from the Party? The list could be a long one.

    Before you have realised where we are, we have already arrived in Putin's Russia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Act_1351
  • Nigelb said:

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @krishgm
    Deputy PM Oliver Dowden very understanding towards colleagues : Lee Anderson didn’t intend to be Islamophobic and wouldn’t have lost the whip if he’d apologised, Suella Braverman didn’t cross the line with her article about Islamists and Liz Truss may not have heard the words she agreed with from Steve Bannon that Tommy Robinson is a hero.

    Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is bigotry in action.
    A reminder of what Rishi Sunak said two weeks ago re Keir Starmer and Azhar Ali …

    “He was saying the most vile awful conspiracy theories” but the leader “stood by him and sent cabinet ministers to support him" and only changed his mind "under enormous media pressure"


    https://twitter.com/KevinASchofield/status/1761400438828470782
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    {Joyce Grenfell voice}

    Leon, don't do that.

    {/Joyce Grenfell voice}


    Actually, the problem with fash-curiousity is similar to the one with drugs and kinks. As time passes, you have to go harder and harder to get the same effect.
    There's a Spectator article to be written on the contribution of male boredom to the rise of fascism.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919
    edited February 25

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    Decapitating traitors is fine, but how do you define a traitor? The Woke (whatever that might be) racial, gender and religious groups we don't like, Socialists, Liberals, perhaps anyone who doesn't self define as a right- winger. But what about the traitors Johnson had to exclude from the Party? The list could be a long one.

    Before you have realised where we are, we have already arrived in Putin's Russia.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Act_1351
    Have you never seen "Minority Report"?

    The Treason Act of course can be replaced with a sturdier Act by a Robert Jenrick Government.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,946
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    {Joyce Grenfell voice}

    Leon, don't do that.

    {/Joyce Grenfell voice}


    Actually, the problem with fash-curiousity is similar to the one with drugs and kinks. As time passes, you have to go harder and harder to get the same effect.
    There's a Spectator article to be written on the contribution of male boredom to the rise of fascism.
    https://spectator.co.uk/article/my-enlarged-prostate-led-me-to-join-britain-first.html
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,774

    Meanwhile the BBC continues it’s weird amplifying relationship with right wing populism.
    Sarah Smith says Trump received almost twice as many votes as Haley, 60-40 is not nearly twice as many.

    Trumpian ramping is a very common activity. Prevalent on PB as well.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    {Joyce Grenfell voice}

    Leon, don't do that.

    {/Joyce Grenfell voice}


    Actually, the problem with fash-curiousity is similar to the one with drugs and kinks. As time passes, you have to go harder and harder to get the same effect.
    There's a Spectator article to be written on the contribution of male boredom to the rise of fascism.
    Are there no three breasted hookers or statuesque ladyboys to entertain an itinerant hack who is bored in Cambodia?
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929

    Surely the problem for hard right Tories is simple:

    Despite weaponising ignorance and stupidity via moron MPs like 30p on GBeebies, most of the country isn’t as mental as they would hope.


    In the words of Alan Partridge, that was just a noise.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    Much of the criticism is simply those of the centre and centre-left looking to ameliorate the impact of the Tories in office by encouraging them to be as close to their position as possible.

    I don't agree that one should polarise for the sake of it, and I do like the idea of a broad consensus, but I think it's even more important to adopt the right positions and argue for them for the right reasons- and that will sometimes mean very Conservative ones.
    Yes of course

    They’re terrified - rightly - that Starmer will gravely disappoint in office and the pendulum will swiftly swing back to the right except this time it will be a red blooded firmly right wing Tory party ready to do really right wing things

    Start with the death penalty. In fact, they should bring back the axeman with his hood, and use the wooden chopping block in the tower of London. Ooooooh

    *rubs thighs*
    Decapitating traitors is fine, but how do you define a traitor? The Woke (whatever that might be) racial, gender and religious groups we don't like, Socialists, Liberals, perhaps anyone who doesn't self define as a right- winger. But what about the traitors Johnson had to exclude from the Party? The list could be a long one.

    Before you have realised where we are, we have already arrived in Putin's Russia.
    How do travel journalists do in Putin's Russia?
  • nico679 said:

    What a car crash for Dowden on LK .

    Absolutely pathetic when asked about the stain on humanity Braverman and Truss .

    Anderson isn't a racist! He just was unfortunate enough to use language which when used by a racist becomes racist. Must be that, because the language isn't racist when Braverman uses it.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,496
    edited February 25
    I'm not convinced that our right-wing populists, both in the Tory Party and Farage/Tice, are taking their inspiration from their European equivalents. I think they're inspired by Trump. They see that Trump's anti-woke, nationalist, racist, misogyny is hugely popular with a lot of Americans, and that it can be replicated over here.
    Mercifully, I think they're wrong.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    kamski said:

    Polling hasn't consistently underestimated Dems and overestimated GOP in recent elections.

    Agreed. Polling has been pretty accurate, overall. But, the Republicans fell short in swing States and congressional districts.

    The problem now is that Trump has fairly solid leads in Arizona, Nevada, Michigan, and Georgia.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,919

    Meanwhile the BBC continues it’s weird amplifying relationship with right wing populism.
    Sarah Smith says Trump received almost twice as many votes as Haley, 60-40 is not nearly twice as many.

    Trumpian ramping is a very common activity. Prevalent on PB as well.
    I saw the Sarah Smith report yesterday and was alarmed by her excitability. To think her father was the Greatest Prime Minister we never had...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
    Bastani? Haven’t heard much from him lately.
    Nope, the other Corbyn brother - Piers or Jeremy, whomsoever you didn't mention. Or am I misremembering?
    I try not to think of the Piers one too much, but the favourite PB meme that Corbyn J. was responsible for Brexit because he was a secret Brexiteer who didn’t campaign hard enough for Remain is tattooed on my memory. I recall Sturgeon also got some of that action because Remain only got 62% in Scotland.
    I don't think we can blame Corbyn for Brexit but it is certainly true his absence was noticeable.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,929
    Scott_xP said:


    @Parody_PM

    Oliver Dowden clarifies the situation: Lee Anderson is not racist, but the words he spoke were, although similar words are not racist when Suella Braverman uses them.
    #TrevorPhillips #BBCLauraK

    The same defence labour used for Azhar Ali

    It’s rotten. Both parties position on this is vile.

    It’s time for this crap,to be called out for what it is and neither party excuse their bigots and, quite frankly if neither of them are bigots (and it is perfectly plausible) the weaponising it for electoral advantage is little short of disgusting.

    It is a battle as when an MP like Robert Buckland rightly calls it out he’s subjected to all,sorts of vile twitter slurs.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,803

    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414

    Yes on the 8am bulletin they said he had won South Carolina by "nearly 2 to 1".

    I was surprised when I looked at the actual results with 899% of the vote counted it was 1.53 to 1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    On topic, RNC rules bind delegates to follow their state's vote. So if Trump is either convicted, or descends in deeper madness, he's still very likely indeed to be the nominee.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,531
    edited February 25

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    Today I learned what Nibelungentreue means.
    So it's a long compound noun evoking the Nibelungenlied and meaning "expressing the concept of absolute, unquestioning, excessive and potentially disastrous loyalty to a cause or person". Which country did that come from, one wonders... :)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    That’s simply a way of saying you want a Conservative Party that agrees with you.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,803

    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414

    Yes on the 8am bulletin they said he had won South Carolina by "nearly 2 to 1".

    I was surprised when I looked at the actual results with 899% of the vote counted it was 1.53 to 1
    It's now 1.51 to 1
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,042
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
    Bastani? Haven’t heard much from him lately.
    Nope, the other Corbyn brother - Piers or Jeremy, whomsoever you didn't mention. Or am I misremembering?
    I try not to think of the Piers one too much, but the favourite PB meme that Corbyn J. was responsible for Brexit because he was a secret Brexiteer who didn’t campaign hard enough for Remain is tattooed on my memory. I recall Sturgeon also got some of that action because Remain only got 62% in Scotland.
    I don't think we can blame Corbyn for Brexit but it is certainly true his absence was noticeable.
    Both Corbyns were long term anti-EU. They see it as a Capitalist structure which specifically blocks some their goals. Piers of course overlays this with some truly demented stuff.

    Getting Jeremy not to say this during the referendum campaign must have been an interesting task.
  • Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @Parody_PM

    Oliver Dowden clarifies the situation: Lee Anderson is not racist, but the words he spoke were, although similar words are not racist when Suella Braverman uses them.
    #TrevorPhillips #BBCLauraK

    The same defence labour used for Azhar Ali

    It’s rotten. Both parties position on this is vile.

    It’s time for this crap,to be called out for what it is and neither party excuse their bigots and, quite frankly if neither of them are bigots (and it is perfectly plausible) the weaponising it for electoral advantage is little short of disgusting.

    It is a battle as when an MP like Robert Buckland rightly calls it out he’s subjected to all,sorts of vile twitter slurs.
    Yep. Meanwhile where we have found ourselves is having to question the boundaries between the right to protest and harassment. I watched the Twix clip of the Labour fundraiser beseiged by pro-Hamas protestors, unwilling to let anyone exist unless they agree with them.

    On Wednesday it is reported that the mob outside Westminster demanded the right to lobby their MPs - and think it anti-democratic not to be allowed into the central lobby as a mob.

    Parliament passed a motion calling fort an immediate end to the fighting. Which it would seem isn't good enough for the mob. Perhaps its time we start arresting the more in your face ones - those screaming hate at people inside a Costa in Woking as an example for "funding literal genocide"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041

    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414

    Yes on the 8am bulletin they said he had won South Carolina by "nearly 2 to 1".

    I was surprised when I looked at the actual results with 899% of the vote counted it was 1.53 to 1
    The BBC tends to report Trump spin with even less scepticism than does the NYT.
    It's a weird (but very clear) dynamic given that neither are particularly right wing organisations.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,323
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    You know last week I tipped Patel as next Tory leader at 33/1....

    Liz Truss is also reviving her “fizz with Liz” drinks with MPs in the apparent belief that she can be “queen-maker” in the next leadership contest, though after her trip last week to the United States, where she did an event with Steve Bannon, a former aide to Donald Trump, it is clear she believes she has a more natural audience for her tax-cutting libertarianism there.

    Insiders say Truss may back Priti Patel, a third woman from the Tory right. MPs think Truss wants to be Patel’s chancellor or shadow chancellor.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mps-plotting-replace-rishi-sunak-tqhkxg60s

    If this happens, Sir Keir Starmer must be the luckiest leader in history.

    When are the conservative Conservatives like Cameron going to stand up and challenge this? At present the traditional wing of the party looks like going down on the ship with Sunak?
    They’re not. It’s over for one nation Tories - they had a decade and a half and they’ve delivered failure; they have no clue how to solve the nation’s problems apart from eVeN morE MiGratIoN and they don’t even have the excuse of being actual lefties, despite espousing entirely left wing beliefs

    At least the brexiteers delivered Brexit. Like it or not

    The only future for the Tories is right wing populism as is happening everywhere else in europe
    I fear they will lurch to the far right but history suggests there's not that much enthusiasm for alt-right populism in this country (fortunately).
    What was Brexit if not a massive vote for alt.right populism? Indeed the biggest vote in British political history
    Right wing? Plenty of left-wing Brexiters. It was - nominally - a single issue referendum.
    Corbyn, Paul Mason and Leon fellow travellers? Well I never.
    Well, quite. And the other Corbyn Bro, too.
    Bastani? Haven’t heard much from him lately.
    Nope, the other Corbyn brother - Piers or Jeremy, whomsoever you didn't mention. Or am I misremembering?
    I try not to think of the Piers one too much, but the favourite PB meme that Corbyn J. was responsible for Brexit because he was a secret Brexiteer who didn’t campaign hard enough for Remain is tattooed on my memory. I recall Sturgeon also got some of that action because Remain only got 62% in Scotland.
    I don't think we can blame Corbyn for Brexit but it is certainly true his absence was noticeable.
    Indeed. It also wasn't much of a secret that left to his own devices he was a Lexiteer given his past comments. But that didn't matter so much as not having a Labour campaign that was prepared to do whatever it took to help Remain win, as it saw the seriousness of the issue. Rather than one that sort of hoped Remain would win but was more hoping it would leave David Cameron weakened so it could take advantage. Past leaders tried a bit - but crucially couldn't make policy interventions a la The Vow in IndyRef - that might have shifted the dial.

    More just another chapter in his all round uselessness than anything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    That’s simply a way of saying you want a Conservative Party that agrees with you.
    I'm fairly sure that Dura would be satisfied with one which remains electorally irrelevant.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:


    @Parody_PM

    Oliver Dowden clarifies the situation: Lee Anderson is not racist, but the words he spoke were, although similar words are not racist when Suella Braverman uses them.
    #TrevorPhillips #BBCLauraK

    The same defence labour used for Azhar Ali

    It’s rotten. Both parties position on this is vile.

    It’s time for this crap,to be called out for what it is and neither party excuse their bigots and, quite frankly if neither of them are bigots (and it is perfectly plausible) the weaponising it for electoral advantage is little short of disgusting.

    It is a battle as when an MP like Robert Buckland rightly calls it out he’s subjected to all,sorts of vile twitter slurs.
    Yep. Meanwhile where we have found ourselves is having to question the boundaries between the right to protest and harassment. I watched the Twix clip of the Labour fundraiser beseiged by pro-Hamas protestors, unwilling to let anyone exist unless they agree with them.

    On Wednesday it is reported that the mob outside Westminster demanded the right to lobby their MPs - and think it anti-democratic not to be allowed into the central lobby as a mob.

    Parliament passed a motion calling fort an immediate end to the fighting. Which it would seem isn't good enough for the mob. Perhaps its time we start arresting the more in your face ones - those screaming hate at people inside a Costa in Woking as an example for "funding literal genocide"
    It was pathetic to see that firm of solicitors apologising for one of their number describing idiots as idiots.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,531
    edited February 25
    Nigelb said:

    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414

    Yes on the 8am bulletin they said he had won South Carolina by "nearly 2 to 1".

    I was surprised when I looked at the actual results with 899% of the vote counted it was 1.53 to 1
    The BBC tends to report Trump spin with even less scepticism than does the NYT.
    It's a weird (but very clear) dynamic given that neither are particularly right wing organisations.
    Clickbait

    (Edit: NYT/BBC, not you!)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,793
    Let's see if we can follow Dowden's reasoning.

    30p Lee's comments were unacceptable, cos he will never be party leader.

    Cruella's comments were fine, cos she might well be.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,542

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    Today I learned what Nibelungentreue means.
    It is another benefit of PB, well at least for me. I learn lots of new words thanks mainly to @Dura_Ace and @Leon. Sadly I remember very few of them. That and asking for advice. And on that front thanks to everyone who advised on my Las Vegas trip. Now mostly organised and includes Death Valley and the Grand Canyon. Unfortunately one of the sites we were going to see, the Badwater Salt flats, is now a lake due to record rainfall in Death Valley. Typical.

    I'm now planning my next cycling trip in France for the following month. I plan to cycle down (well next to obviously) the Loire. Any tips appreciatively received.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,956
    Nigelb said:

    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414

    Yes on the 8am bulletin they said he had won South Carolina by "nearly 2 to 1".

    I was surprised when I looked at the actual results with 899% of the vote counted it was 1.53 to 1
    The BBC tends to report Trump spin with even less scepticism than does the NYT.
    It's a weird (but very clear) dynamic given that neither are particularly right wing organisations.
    Trump drives engagement and the BBC are so terrified of being accused of left-wing bias that they overcompensate.

    Also, in this case, there's also a factor of having a low opinion of the mathematical abilities of their audience. The margin is 3:2, but that ratio is more complicated than 2:1, and it's closer to 2:1 than 50:50, so that's what they've gone for.
  • Good morning

    I have just seen the front page of the Daily Mail and whilst I do not agree with Angela Rayner politically, their attempt to smear her over the sale of her home is a complete non story

    Listening to Andy Burnham suggesting the whip system should be discontinued is an interesting idea
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,309
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    That’s simply a way of saying you want a Conservative Party that agrees with you.
    Isn’t that what most of us do when we’re giving a prescription for either of the main parties?

    There are PB comments that recommend something that wouldn’t be to their own taste but they’re few and far between.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,041
    edited February 25
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    If you relied on the BBC for your news you would think it was all done and dusted.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68395414

    Yes on the 8am bulletin they said he had won South Carolina by "nearly 2 to 1".

    I was surprised when I looked at the actual results with 899% of the vote counted it was 1.53 to 1
    The BBC tends to report Trump spin with even less scepticism than does the NYT.
    It's a weird (but very clear) dynamic given that neither are particularly right wing organisations.
    Clickbait

    (Edit: NYT/BBC, not you!)
    Yes, but I think it goes beyond that.
    For example, there's a recent Today podcast where Amol Rahan and Nick Robinson discuss their near certainty that Trump will be re-elected. It's as though they've assimilated the clickbait.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,956
    edited February 25
    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:



    If the economy is bad under Labour - I don't see the Tories getting a chance - it really would be Farage or similar scooping up the votes.

    The tories are going to be electorally irrelevant until they deracinate the structural islamophobia that infests their party and recant on their brexit Nibelungentreue.
    That’s simply a way of saying you want a Conservative Party that agrees with you.
    Isn’t that what most of us do when we’re giving a prescription for either of the main parties?

    There are PB comments that recommend something that wouldn’t be to their own taste but they’re few and far between.
    So much so that people assume everyone is advocating for their own opinion, rather than giving a dispassionate neutral analysis.
This discussion has been closed.