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Could we see Reform poll higher than the Tories before the election in an opin– politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    It might be an idea for Rishi to call an election soon, while he still has a party that can be salvaged...
    Why would he give up a potential 10 extra months as PM for an election now which he would almost certainly lose at long odds of salvaging a few Tory MPs seats? I doubt Sunak gives a toss what happens to the Tories once as is likely he loses the next general election. He will be off to California within a month to join some big company boards with a by election in Richmond shortly after. He just wants to stay PM as long as possible to bolster his CV. As far as I can see the first time Rishi delivered a Tory leaflet was when he was selected for Richmond in 2015, he did not grow up in the party and had never even stood for council let alone a parliamentary seat before then when he was more interested in cricket, Southampton FC, making money at Goldmans and for his hedge fund and getting good degrees at Oxford and Stanford.

    Sunak will only call an early GE if the Tories somehow get a poll lead
    Rishi did have an internship at CCHQ one summer of his university holidays, that is the only evidence I have of his political involvement before selection for Richmond in 2014
    It would be nice to think Rishi can dedicate his post-Downing Street career to public service rather than chasing Elon Musk's sack of cash in California. It is not as if he needs the money.
    Head of the World Bank or IMF would probably be the only further public service he might consider
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    AlsoLei said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fuck's sake.

    Duhan van der Merwe is a proper Scottish name.

    Friend of mine from the Borders went out to RSA. Found he could, if he relaxed, understand what the local Afrikaners were saying about the rooinek (ie him) in front of him.
    I'm a not-quite fluent speaker of Scots (the Ulster dialect, in my case), and have had similar experiences with being able to close my eyes and catch the drift of Afrikaans conversation

    ...but rather than "rooinek", my (Afrikaans!) ex and I were most often referred to as "die Engels", which earned a rebuke of "hou jou bek!" - which means something like "shut up, you!" but is a slightly glorious false friend for the Ulster-Scots "hau' yer bake"
    Dutch is half English, so it's not surprising.
    Closer to say English is half Dutch surely?
    I was going to say that!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    It might be an idea for Rishi to call an election soon, while he still has a party that can be salvaged...
    Why would he give up a potential 10 extra months as PM for an election now which he would almost certainly lose at long odds of salvaging a few Tory MPs seats? I doubt Sunak gives a toss what happens to the Tories once as is likely he loses the next general election. He will be off to California within a month to join some big company boards with a by election in Richmond shortly after. He just wants to stay PM as long as possible to bolster his CV. As far as I can see the first time Rishi delivered a Tory leaflet was when he was selected for Richmond in 2015, he did not grow up in the party and had never even stood for council let alone a parliamentary seat before then when he was more interested in cricket, Southampton FC, making money at Goldmans and for his hedge fund and getting good degrees at Oxford and Stanford.

    Sunak will only call an early GE if the Tories somehow get a poll lead
    Rishi did have an internship at CCHQ one summer of his university holidays, that is the only evidence I have of his political involvement before selection for Richmond in 2014
    It would be nice to think Rishi can dedicate his post-Downing Street career to public service rather than chasing Elon Musk's sack of cash in California. It is not as if he needs the money.
    Head of the World Bank or IMF would probably be the only further public service he might consider
    Or a role at Tesco's?!

    I was at the self-service tills at Tesco Ilford North today, and I swear it was Rishi's voice telling me to "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!". :lol:
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    I would disagree about right of centre but you are correct that one nation conservatives are presently homeless
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html

    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7"
    Something else to thank Hamas for then.
    Didn't have you down as an Islamophobe.
    I despise terrorism. Don't you?
  • ohnotnow said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Suella Braverman MP
    @SuellaBraverman

    The mask has slipped: in hock to Islamists, Starmer is responsible for one of the most shameful days of our democracy.

    Enough of the hand-wringing & apologies. Turning a blind eye to fanatics has got us into this situation: it must stop."

    https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1760928615984673243

    I'm running out of fingers to count on, but... wasn't she Home Secretary? Like... in charge of laws and police and stuff like that?
    And record immigration
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    A few have gone LD or Starmer Labour
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Getting grumpy on here tonight, complete with a startling racial-political analysis of the rugger.

    Night all. I'm still wondering why Mr Anderson hasn't updated himself to (at a rough mental estimate) Mr 36p.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    Just Stop Oil confront Labour frontbencher at fundraising dinner
    Letter demanding end to North Sea drilling and Gaza ceasefire handed to Anneliese Dodds by protesters in Oxford restaurant

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/just-stop-oil-confront-frontbencher-anneliese-dodds-dinner/ (£££)

    They're all at it.

    When Gaza's immense, eye-popping oil supply to the world is finally halted (or re-started? ...whichever) - then truly Gaia will be appeased.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Just Stop Oil confront Labour frontbencher at fundraising dinner
    Letter demanding end to North Sea drilling and Gaza ceasefire handed to Anneliese Dodds by protesters in Oxford restaurant

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/just-stop-oil-confront-frontbencher-anneliese-dodds-dinner/ (£££)

    They're all at it.

    Stop North Sea drilling. More oil revenue for the Middle East. More money to fund Islamic terrorism.

    And certain Premier League clubs.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    A few have gone LD or Starmer Labour
    I haven't but then at GE our conservative mp is hopeless so Lib Dems look good for my vote
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    I would disagree about right of centre but you are correct that one nation conservatives are presently homeless
    No Tory Party members charitable enough to offer a nice cardboard box? Mind, it probably costs £650-odd in London these days.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    It might be an idea for Rishi to call an election soon, while he still has a party that can be salvaged...
    Why would he give up a potential 10 extra months as PM for an election now which he would almost certainly lose at long odds of salvaging a few Tory MPs seats? I doubt Sunak gives a toss what happens to the Tories once as is likely he loses the next general election. He will be off to California within a month to join some big company boards with a by election in Richmond shortly after. He just wants to stay PM as long as possible to bolster his CV. As far as I can see the first time Rishi delivered a Tory leaflet was when he was selected for Richmond in 2015, he did not grow up in the party and had never even stood for council let alone a parliamentary seat before then when he was more interested in cricket, Southampton FC, making money at Goldmans and for his hedge fund and getting good degrees at Oxford and Stanford.

    Sunak will only call an early GE if the Tories somehow get a poll lead
    Rishi did have an internship at CCHQ one summer of his university holidays, that is the only evidence I have of his political involvement before selection for Richmond in 2014
    It would be nice to think Rishi can dedicate his post-Downing Street career to public service rather than chasing Elon Musk's sack of cash in California. It is not as if he needs the money.
    Head of the World Bank or IMF would probably be the only further public service he might consider
    Or a role at Tesco's?!

    I was at the self-service tills at Tesco Ilford North today, and I swear it was Rishi's voice telling me to "Don't forget to scan your ClubCard!". :lol:
    "Scan your ClubCard! The scanner.. is.... that box? Or is it the shiny thing with the red light? Where are my people, damn it!"
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    I would disagree about right of centre but you are correct that one nation conservatives are presently homeless
    No Tory Party members charitable enough to offer a nice cardboard box? Mind, it probably costs £650-odd in London these days.
    As it so happens and, despite my health issues, my wife and I are very privileged to have no financial worries and a fabulous family and fabulous grandchildren who run rings round their Grandma

    The expression 'what goes on in Grandma's House stays in Grandma's House' is very important to family harmony !!!!!!
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660

    Just Stop Oil confront Labour frontbencher at fundraising dinner
    Letter demanding end to North Sea drilling and Gaza ceasefire handed to Anneliese Dodds by protesters in Oxford restaurant

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/just-stop-oil-confront-frontbencher-anneliese-dodds-dinner/ (£££)

    They're all at it.

    Protest doesn't work if people who can actually change the country aren't affected. We wouldn't have full emancipation if 400 years of direct protest hadn't happened, some of it a damn sight more revolutionary than protesting houses or handing over letters.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    It would be nice to think Rishi can dedicate his post-Downing Street career to public service rather than chasing Elon Musk's sack.

    I think that's all you need there.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Andy_JS said:

    "Suella Braverman MP
    @SuellaBraverman

    The mask has slipped: in hock to Islamists, Starmer is responsible for one of the most shameful days of our democracy.

    Enough of the hand-wringing & apologies. Turning a blind eye to fanatics has got us into this situation: it must stop."

    https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1760928615984673243

    Suella Braverman has zero commitment to our democracy. Why should we care what she says about it?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    ohnotnow said:

    Just Stop Oil confront Labour frontbencher at fundraising dinner
    Letter demanding end to North Sea drilling and Gaza ceasefire handed to Anneliese Dodds by protesters in Oxford restaurant

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/just-stop-oil-confront-frontbencher-anneliese-dodds-dinner/ (£££)

    They're all at it.

    When Gaza's immense, eye-popping oil supply to the world is finally halted (or re-started? ...whichever) - then truly Gaia will be appeased.
    The Gazan's would loose their ownership of a large offshore gas field if the Israelis are to annexe the place.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Interesting to consider the Tory support line in that header YouGov graph.

    Tory support was on a long, fairly consistent decline until the Truss debacle when it dipped sharply.

    It took Sunak about six months to bring Tory support back up to that (still declining) trend line, since when it has continued to decline pretty much in-line with the long term trend: -7% per year.

    At this trend the Tories will be polling about 15% by the autumn.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    What do you see as the particular challenge from Islamism? ISIS has been largely defeated (although perhaps not in the Sahel). It’s over 4 years since there has been an Islamist terrorist attack in the UK. We appear to be tackling the matter well.

    There are tensions at present around Gaza. Horror around the situation in Gaza is not specifically Islamist: it goes across a broad range of Muslims and non-Muslims. The pro-Palestinian protestors are not advancing an Islamist philosophy, as far as I’ve seen. Indeed, if there’s a political ideology particularly associated with the protests, it is that of the hard left, the SWP and the Corbynites.
    David Amess MP was murdered by an Islamist 2 and a half years ago. Mike Freer MP resigned as a minister because of Islamist threats ( and an arson attack) in the last few weeks. Jewish MPs are all wearing stab vests. Yes we ‘appear to be tackling the matter well’

    I can’t work out which is worse. That you actually believe this bullshit, or that you know it’s bullshit but say it anyway
    There's no doubt it's dangerous, but I'm not sure the threat is correctly identified as 'Islamist' - though there are elements that are. It's more like a left-wing version of QAnon that sees events in Gaza not as a horrific regional war brought about by a terror group, but as at the centre of a conspiracist view of the world in which it's a duty to fight 'Zionism' everywhere - including by abusing any MP who doesn't share the conspiracist view of the world.

    For example, Owen Jones quite obviously isn't an Islamist - he's still saying some totally unhinged things, retweeting far right figures because they are sharing anti-Israel material, putting people who deny 7 October on his video channel.

    Obviously some of the people involved in things are Islamist - I believe one of the guys involved in Stoke is Hizb-al-Tahir. But to describe as an Islamist problem somewhat mischaracterises the problem, which is that a wider group of people are becoming radicalised extremists who think almost any act is justified without necessarily (but sometimes buying) Islamist beliefs.
  • FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Suella Braverman MP
    @SuellaBraverman

    The mask has slipped: in hock to Islamists, Starmer is responsible for one of the most shameful days of our democracy.

    Enough of the hand-wringing & apologies. Turning a blind eye to fanatics has got us into this situation: it must stop."

    https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1760928615984673243

    Suella Braverman has zero commitment to our democracy. Why should we care what she says about it?
    Because there's a non trivial chance that she'll be Leader of the Opposition soon?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    edited February 24
    Evening all :)

    On topic, it would more than just Lee Anderson to defect (not that he will as he serves a useful purpose). If 20-25 Conservative MPs defected en bloc, then yes Reform might just go second in a poll but it's not credible and Tice's rambling nonsense this afternoon won't have helped.

    Anderson won't defect - he is the conduit for keeping Conservative voters on side. He says what he thinks (or knows) many voters are actually thinking but feel they dare not articulate. He speaks or thinks he speaks not for the silent majority but for the silenced majority. For that reason alone, he'll get a public slapped wrist but privately he's doing what Levido and CCHQ want and need him to do.

    It's called politics.

    The comment itself is absurd but resonates primarily outside London (and perhaps in some of the London suburbs where there is strong anti-Khan sentiment though little or no love for Susan Hall. PB featured some YouGov polling a few days ago which showed 39% of Londoners backed the Palestinians - much higher than the rest of the country. It's probably no surprise given the demographics of London but it plays to assumptions and misconceptions about London in the rest of England.

    The events of October 7th and subsequent have stretched the fabric of society and of course this was part of the Hamas objectives beyond Israel and Gaza - polarise, radicalise, sow discord, weaken concensus, silence moderate opinion, remove compromise. The re-emergence of anti-semitism (it has always existed in the shadows along with all the other nasty prejudices and bigotry) is abhorrent and must be fought as it was in earlier decades and part of that fight includes education, moderation and concensus building. It involves care with language and trying not to respond to provocations in social media and elsewhere.

    It's not easy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    A few have gone LD or Starmer Labour
    I haven't but then at GE our conservative mp is hopeless so Lib Dems look good for my vote
    In contrast our Conservative MP is actually pretty good. I genuinely believe he's a decent person doing what he believes to be the best for his constituents. But there is no way I will vote for him while he represents the current Tory party. Now if he defected to the LDs, Labour or Greens , he'd get my vote.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986

    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Suella Braverman MP
    @SuellaBraverman

    The mask has slipped: in hock to Islamists, Starmer is responsible for one of the most shameful days of our democracy.

    Enough of the hand-wringing & apologies. Turning a blind eye to fanatics has got us into this situation: it must stop."

    https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1760928615984673243

    Suella Braverman has zero commitment to our democracy. Why should we care what she says about it?
    Because there's a non trivial chance that she'll be Leader of the Opposition soon?
    There is a non-zero chance that any party she 'leads' will not be the official opposition
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    What do you see as the particular challenge from Islamism? ISIS has been largely defeated (although perhaps not in the Sahel). It’s over 4 years since there has been an Islamist terrorist attack in the UK. We appear to be tackling the matter well.

    There are tensions at present around Gaza. Horror around the situation in Gaza is not specifically Islamist: it goes across a broad range of Muslims and non-Muslims. The pro-Palestinian protestors are not advancing an Islamist philosophy, as far as I’ve seen. Indeed, if there’s a political ideology particularly associated with the protests, it is that of the hard left, the SWP and the Corbynites.
    David Amess MP was murdered by an Islamist 2 and a half years ago. Mike Freer MP resigned as a minister because of Islamist threats ( and an arson attack) in the last few weeks. Jewish MPs are all wearing stab vests. Yes we ‘appear to be tackling the matter well’

    I can’t work out which is worse. That you actually believe this bullshit, or that you know it’s bullshit but say it anyway
    There's no doubt it's dangerous, but I'm not sure the threat is correctly identified as 'Islamist' - though there are elements that are. It's more like a left-wing version of QAnon that sees events in Gaza not as a horrific regional war brought about by a terror group, but as at the centre of a conspiracist view of the world in which it's a duty to fight 'Zionism' everywhere - including by abusing any MP who doesn't share the conspiracist view of the world.

    For example, Owen Jones quite obviously isn't an Islamist - he's still saying some totally unhinged things, retweeting far right figures because they are sharing anti-Israel material, putting people who deny 7 October on his video channel.

    Obviously some of the people involved in things are Islamist - I believe one of the guys involved in Stoke is Hizb-al-Tahir. But to describe as an Islamist problem somewhat mischaracterises the problem, which is that a wider group of people are becoming radicalised extremists who think almost any act is justified without necessarily (but sometimes buying) Islamist beliefs.
    Basically, while all Islamists hate Jews, not all Jew-haters are Islamists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    'A staggering 53% of Jewish voters in New York state plan on voting for former President Donald Trump in the November election, a new Siena College poll found.

    Just 44% of the Chosen People in the deep-blue state will back President Joe Biden in the race, according to the ..New York Jews suddenly swinging for Republicans isn’t enough for a Trump victory though, according to the poll, which was released this week and had a margin of error of 4.2%. It found Biden trouncing the former president in the state 48% to 36%.'
    https://nypost.com/2024/02/24/us-news/majority-of-new-york-jews-to-vote-for-trump-poll/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
    Leon's not really a threat, except in the useful idiot sense.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    These attitudes will put off a generation of younger voters. If you want to ensure your own extinction I suggest you carry on.
    Albeit Marine Le Pen leads candidates of Macron's party with younger French voters in latest French polls, there is no guarantee young voters are automatically anti the populist far right. Indeed evidence from the continent suggests the young are more likely to vote for the far right than the retired are but the retired are more likely to vote for traditional conservative parties than the young are
    The advice about what the young think from various posters on here is quite amusing. The one thing I would say is that they nearly always rebel against the prevailing 'consensus'; and at present the consensus is woke centrism.
    You expect 18-30 year olds to vote Reform then?

    This is pure wishcasting from posters who can't face the fact that Labour will win a majority and that millennials, some of whom are now in their 40s, are significantly more leftwing than their forebears.

    Gen Z are your only hope - they don't have the experience of the Great Recession like the rest of us do. However, the evidence is that they are pretty similar to millennials and the most likely to vote Labour.
  • Stan Bowles dies at age 75
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    When is tower bridge going to be closed down for the Uyghurs?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    .

    When is tower bridge going to be closed down for the Uyghurs?

    Or Nagorno-Karabakh.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
    Leon's not really a threat, except in the useful idiot sense.
    For a start he's never bloody here.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    Eabhal said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    These attitudes will put off a generation of younger voters. If you want to ensure your own extinction I suggest you carry on.
    Albeit Marine Le Pen leads candidates of Macron's party with younger French voters in latest French polls, there is no guarantee young voters are automatically anti the populist far right. Indeed evidence from the continent suggests the young are more likely to vote for the far right than the retired are but the retired are more likely to vote for traditional conservative parties than the young are
    The advice about what the young think from various posters on here is quite amusing. The one thing I would say is that they nearly always rebel against the prevailing 'consensus'; and at present the consensus is woke centrism.
    You expect 18-30 year olds to vote Reform then?

    This is pure wishcasting from posters who can't face the fact that Labour will win a majority and that millennials, some of whom are now in their 40s, are significantly more leftwing than their forebears.

    Gen Z are your only hope - they don't have the experience of the Great Recession like the rest of us do. However, the evidence is that they are pretty similar to millennials and the most likely to vote Labour.
    For now, the evidence from most western nations at present is younger voters are shifting to the right once conservative governments lose power and left liberal governments take power
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    When is tower bridge going to be closed down for the Uyghurs?

    The day after it is closed downxfor the Sudanese.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
    Is there any crap too low brow to make it into the Telegraph as a major story? There used to be niche sites like 'Stormfront' for the Leon's of this world
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Both things should happen: Alt-right nutjobs to RefUK; One Nation types off to the LibDems. Then we can give the Conservative Party a peaceful burial and leave it to history.
    HY can be the last Conservative standing
    He is a classic Reform candidate
    Hardly, I didn't even vote Leave
    The nuance of your posts clearly show your instinctive support of the right
    Well I don't deny that but even most Tories will be of the right let alone Reform supporters
    Correction most of the 175,000 members - not the decent and sane one nation ones
    The decent, sane, One Nation Tories are surely 'of the right' - right of centre at least.

    Their problem, your problem, is that there nowhere for One Nation Tories to go now.
    A few have gone LD or Starmer Labour
    I haven't but then at GE our conservative mp is hopeless so Lib Dems look good for my vote
    In contrast our Conservative MP is actually pretty good. I genuinely believe he's a decent person doing what he believes to be the best for his constituents. But there is no way I will vote for him while he represents the current Tory party. Now if he defected to the LDs, Labour or Greens , he'd get my vote.
    Mine is an idiot. Alun Cairns. I get a video every fews days with him slagging off Labour, both the Government in Cardiff Bay and the Starmer Government in Westminster.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
    Leon's not really a threat, except in the useful idiot sense.
    Tell that to the burkha wearing women he used to claim to abuse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Proper rugby on BBC 2.
    Mighty Wigan going for our 5th World Championship to add to our mere 23 national titles.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss failed because she was incompetent, correct?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    If, like the contemptible Lee, you lump all Muslims together with the Islamist extremists, then you're part of the problem.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss failed because she was incompetent, correct?
    Everyone is responsible for their own failure. Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron, Sunak, Johnson, and Truss. Truss was foolish not to prepare the ground better for her policy initiatives - she did anticipate short term unpopularity, so she wasn't naive in that sense, but she never expected her mandate to be challenged, and thought she'd ride it out until her policies bore fruit. She was not a poor policy-maker, but she was a poor politician.

    That doesn't exonerate the others involved in her early exit, particularly on the Tory benches, because they destroyed one of the best chances of a strong economic recovery. Truss's growth plans have been published, and I believe that had they been implemented, the economy would look extremely different to the way it looks now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    On a happier note, I thought this spot on about the cricket.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2024/feb/24/englands-junior-tweakers-thrive-from-stokes-brawny-arm-around-shoulder
    ..On that note there was a tell-me-the-thing-without-telling-me-the-thing element to Alastair Cook’s comments on TNT Sports at the end of day two, where he spoke enviously about the control of Stokes’s spinners, lamenting that when he was captain his spinners would always bowl one bad ball an over, to the extent Cook could feel it coming in the field.

    Let’s think about how connected these things could be? Stokes laughing off long hops, saying more please, and his bowlers responding. And Cook, a more punitive captain, finding his prophecies of failure coming true. The leadership voice that sees what you can do versus the one that sees what you can’t. The player Stokes saw Bashir bowling to on social media was, as it happens, Cook. Script note: is this too obvious?

    From here it seems likely there will be pressure in the fourth innings to win the Test on this pitch. Another element of the captaincy. Bashir and Hartley both know they won’t be carrying that alone...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    Tres said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
    Leon's not really a threat, except in the useful idiot sense.
    Tell that to the burkha wearing women he used to claim to abuse.
    The threat is to sites like this. People who aren't interested in this racist bile just quietly peel off. What else is there to do
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    edited February 24

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss failed because she was incompetent, correct?
    Everyone is responsible for their own failure. Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron, Sunak, Johnson, and Truss. Truss was foolish not to prepare the ground better for her policy initiatives - she did anticipate short term unpopularity, so she wasn't naive in that sense, but she never expected her mandate to be challenged, and thought she'd ride it out until her policies bore fruit. She was not a poor policy-maker, but she was a poor politician.

    That doesn't exonerate the others involved in her early exit, particularly on the Tory benches, because they destroyed one of the best chances of a strong economic recovery. Truss's growth plans have been published, and I believe that had they been implemented, the economy would look extremely different to the way it looks now.
    It’s always enjoyable to find common ground with another poster.

  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html

    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7"
    Something else to thank Hamas for then.
    Didn't have you down as an Islamophobe.
    I despise terrorism. Don't you?
    Yes, which is why I despise the Israeli terror-bombing of the Palestinian people.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    Eabhal said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    These attitudes will put off a generation of younger voters. If you want to ensure your own extinction I suggest you carry on.
    Albeit Marine Le Pen leads candidates of Macron's party with younger French voters in latest French polls, there is no guarantee young voters are automatically anti the populist far right. Indeed evidence from the continent suggests the young are more likely to vote for the far right than the retired are but the retired are more likely to vote for traditional conservative parties than the young are
    The advice about what the young think from various posters on here is quite amusing. The one thing I would say is that they nearly always rebel against the prevailing 'consensus'; and at present the consensus is woke centrism.
    You expect 18-30 year olds to vote Reform then?

    This is pure wishcasting from posters who can't face the fact that Labour will win a majority and that millennials, some of whom are now in their 40s, are significantly more leftwing than their forebears.

    Gen Z are your only hope - they don't have the experience of the Great Recession like the rest of us do. However, the evidence is that they are pretty similar to millennials and the most likely to vote Labour.
    There's no difference between the parties on policy at the moment. The only thing distinguishing them is identity, and Labour win the image contest. If there's a real difference in the retail offering, people might wake up to democracy again.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited February 24
    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
    The BoE made a £4bn profit on that intervention.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
    No offence, but I'm not sure I can explain what actually happened in a way that you'd manage to comprehend.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    These attitudes will put off a generation of younger voters. If you want to ensure your own extinction I suggest you carry on.
    Albeit Marine Le Pen leads candidates of Macron's party with younger French voters in latest French polls, there is no guarantee young voters are automatically anti the populist far right. Indeed evidence from the continent suggests the young are more likely to vote for the far right than the retired are but the retired are more likely to vote for traditional conservative parties than the young are
    The advice about what the young think from various posters on here is quite amusing. The one thing I would say is that they nearly always rebel against the prevailing 'consensus'; and at present the consensus is woke centrism.
    You expect 18-30 year olds to vote Reform then?

    This is pure wishcasting from posters who can't face the fact that Labour will win a majority and that millennials, some of whom are now in their 40s, are significantly more leftwing than their forebears.

    Gen Z are your only hope - they don't have the experience of the Great Recession like the rest of us do. However, the evidence is that they are pretty similar to millennials and the most likely to vote Labour.
    For now, the evidence from most western nations at present is younger voters are shifting to the right once conservative governments lose power and left liberal governments take power
    Importantly, though those countries haven't had their failed right-wing revolution. The damage done to the reputation of Conservative and right-wing politics in the UK over the past decade, especially with the young, is going to take a very long time to rectify.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220

    When is tower bridge going to be closed down for the Uyghurs?

    The day after it is closed downxfor the Sudanese.
    #JusticeForTheBeakerPeople
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    ohnotnow said:

    Just Stop Oil confront Labour frontbencher at fundraising dinner
    Letter demanding end to North Sea drilling and Gaza ceasefire handed to Anneliese Dodds by protesters in Oxford restaurant

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/just-stop-oil-confront-frontbencher-anneliese-dodds-dinner/ (£££)

    They're all at it.

    When Gaza's immense, eye-popping oil supply to the world is finally halted (or re-started? ...whichever) - then truly Gaia will be appeased.
    You jest, but aren’t there large gas fields off the coastline that have complicated matters?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    “ a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground.”

    They have no ideology apart from

    1) People Like Us should keep running things.
    2) If we keep adding Process, one day, Real Soon, everything will be perfect.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    When is tower bridge going to be closed down for the Uyghurs?

    The day after it is closed downxfor the Sudanese.
    #JusticeForTheBeakerPeople
    Inevitably...

    Beaker from the Muppets sings Ode to Joy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061

    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
    No offence, but I'm not sure I can explain what actually happened in a way that you'd manage to comprehend.
    No offence, but you're probably right about that.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    What drama at the DW!
    Wigan are World Champions!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    You do not need to invent deep state conspiracies to understand why Truss failed, you simply need to read what she said and see what she did.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html

    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7"
    Something else to thank Hamas for then.
    Didn't have you down as an Islamophobe.
    I despise terrorism. Don't you?
    Yes, which is why I despise the Israeli terror-bombing of the Palestinian people.
    Hamas' human shields.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 24
    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    darkage said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    These neo right wingers aren’t conservatives.
    David Henig 🇺🇦
    @DavidHenigUK
    ·
    8h
    The Conservative Party will need to decide if it is closer to Ruth Davidson or Lee Anderson in attitudes. I have a pretty good idea which of these would be more popular outside of the GB News / Telegraph anti-woke bubble.
    What he means is me and my friends.

    Lee Anderson has made it much harder to have the difficult discussion on how we tackle Islamism that needs to be had, not ignored.
    These attitudes will put off a generation of younger voters. If you want to ensure your own extinction I suggest you carry on.
    Albeit Marine Le Pen leads candidates of Macron's party with younger French voters in latest French polls, there is no guarantee young voters are automatically anti the populist far right. Indeed evidence from the continent suggests the young are more likely to vote for the far right than the retired are but the retired are more likely to vote for traditional conservative parties than the young are
    The advice about what the young think from various posters on here is quite amusing. The one thing I would say is that they nearly always rebel against the prevailing 'consensus'; and at present the consensus is woke centrism.
    You expect 18-30 year olds to vote Reform then?

    This is pure wishcasting from posters who can't face the fact that Labour will win a majority and that millennials, some of whom are now in their 40s, are significantly more leftwing than their forebears.

    Gen Z are your only hope - they don't have the experience of the Great Recession like the rest of us do. However, the evidence is that they are pretty similar to millennials and the most likely to vote Labour.
    For now, the evidence from most western nations at present is younger voters are shifting to the right once conservative governments lose power and left liberal governments take power
    Importantly, though those countries haven't had their failed right-wing revolution. The damage done to the reputation of Conservative and right-wing politics in the UK over the past decade, especially with the young, is going to take a very long time to rectify.
    The US has, Trump from 2016-20, yet despite his losing young voters heavily to Biden in 2020 he is now neck and neck with Biden in some polls amongst the youngest voters
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
    No offence, but I'm not sure I can explain what actually happened in a way that you'd manage to comprehend.
    I recall a PBer who claimed that it was OK to disregard any scientist who couldn't explain his or her research in words of fewer than four letters to the uninformed.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,033

    Just Stop Oil confront Labour frontbencher at fundraising dinner
    Letter demanding end to North Sea drilling and Gaza ceasefire handed to Anneliese Dodds by protesters in Oxford restaurant

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/just-stop-oil-confront-frontbencher-anneliese-dodds-dinner/ (£££)

    They're all at it.

    Stop North Sea drilling. More oil revenue for the Middle East. More money to fund Islamic terrorism.

    And certain Premier League clubs.
    Hilarious that they think that Anneliese Dodds has the slightest influence on ceasefires or not in Gaza.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited February 24
    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    “ a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground.”

    They have no ideology apart from

    1) People Like Us should keep running things.
    2) If we keep adding Process, one day, Real Soon, everything will be perfect.
    This thinking is the resort of people who don't want to face up to the fact that we have had a totally inept, misguided, shambles of a government for the past 14 years.

    "It's all the Blob, the lefty-liberal Blob! If only we'd been allowed to govern properly everything would be fine."
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    edited February 24

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    Lol. Desperate stuff from the MoS.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    Poor MOS .

    They really are dredging up any old crap .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
    No offence, but I'm not sure I can explain what actually happened in a way that you'd manage to comprehend.
    Similarly, you're not going to be able to understand my explanation of why the earth is flat.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html

    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7"
    Something else to thank Hamas for then.
    Didn't have you down as an Islamophobe.
    I despise terrorism. Don't you?
    Yes, which is why I despise the Israeli terror-bombing of the Palestinian people.
    Hamas' human shields.
    Hamas wouldn't have come about if Israel had recognised Palestinian independence back in the 1990s.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,033

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    “ a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground.”

    They have no ideology apart from

    1) People Like Us should keep running things.
    2) If we keep adding Process, one day, Real Soon, everything will be perfect.
    This thinking is the resort of people who don't want to face up to the fact that we have had a totally inept, misguided, shambles of a government for the past 14 years.

    "It's all the Blob, the lefty-liberal Blob! If only we'd been allowed to govern properly everything would be fine."
    We've had such a government for at least the past quarter of a century. The benign global economic conditions until 2007 and Blair's salesmanship somewhat disguised it, but Cameron and subsequent governments were continuity Blair, as he himself admitted.

    Of course we also had such governments pre-1979. It was Mrs Thatcher that was the aberration. And to get her, things had to deterioriate to an even worse state than now so that enough of the country saw the need for radical change. We don't seem to be there yet.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    Roger said:

    Tres said:

    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    Yes we do. From people like you.
    Leon's not really a threat, except in the useful idiot sense.

    Tell that to the burkha wearing women he used to claim to abuse.
    The threat is to sites like this. People who aren't interested in this racist bile just quietly peel off. What else is there to do
    Your anti-Semitic and misogynistic mindset is pretty off putting to be honest
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited February 24
    The DE has another of its vomit inducing Sunak arse licking pieces where having been fxcked he’s now expecting northern voters to fall for his latest desperate guff .

    The spineless gimp thinks having a cabinet meeting in Yorkshire means levelling up is back on track .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited February 24

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    tyson said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    Truss was shamelessly booted out of Downing Street by her own party because she was economically illiterate. She almost caused a collapse in our Pension Funds which led to the the Bank of England losing tens of billions to bail her out.....and millions paying thousands upon thousands on additional interest payments to live in their homes....

    @Luckyguy1983...serious credibility malfunction alert...beep beep beep....alert....
    Wrong.

    She was booted out because her politics - both rubbish communication skills and determination not to balance books - was incompatible with her senior MPs.

    Economically she did little damage in her term and mini budget, everything you just listed is pure fantasy and lazy drivel.

    1. The high borrowing rates had been climbing for months, not just for UK but widely. They have been even higher than that under Sunak a year later.
    2. Those rates smoked out bad hedging on pensions that was nothing to do with Truss.
    3. The run on the pound was also little to do with the mini budget, US currency strength wasn’t just problem for us but many currencies.
    4. With all the stealth tax, the mini budget was a net giveaway of just £13B, not the massive giveaway media called it for about a week before shutting up realising they had got it wrong.
    5. The markets didn’t like the cost of the energy support giveaway promised all the way up to election, paid for by borrowing - £100B to £250B - adopting this sceme for so long not 6 months was a mistake, the thing dropped on Hunt’s first day as CoE, throwing that into the volcano and the markets was instantly happy with the Mini budget. But it was a scheme Starmer stole from Lib Dem’s, and one of TSE’s header proclaimed it a master stroke for Starmer to back it.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html

    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7"
    Something else to thank Hamas for then.
    Didn't have you down as an Islamophobe.
    I despise terrorism. Don't you?
    Yes, which is why I despise the Israeli terror-bombing of the Palestinian people.
    Hamas' human shields.
    Hamas wouldn't have come about if Israel had recognised Palestinian independence back in the 1990s.
    We've finally got there.

    The fact that there are Islamist terrorists is all the Jews' fault.

    I think it is past somebody's bedtime.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited February 24
    I do wonder whether Anderson, Braverman and the client press are trying to whip up a storm. Would they care if they get a scalp or two?

    It only takes a nutter or three, and who knows what might happen? As former Home Secretary Braverman should know better, unless she really doesn't give a shiny s***.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    There's CCTV video showing the police seemingly allowing a group of pro-Palestinian protestors to get into the Conservative fund-raiser that was disrupted last night:

    https://twitter.com/joerichlaw/status/1761372046141849708

    https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516

    Lee Anderson was foolish and cack-handed in his words about Khan, and also self-harming to his cause. Twit

    Nonetheless a lot of people will be looking at these various videos of MPs being aggressively heckled, councils being invaded, parliament forced into quasi-lockdown, streets and bridges closed, and they will think "he also had a point"
    I think both sides of the debate overreact when it comes to Islamic extremism.

    And dialogue between them there is none.
    There is now a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy, and it comes from Islamic extremism, and it is worsened by the way it has progressively seduced some idiot lefties, and menaced the moderate lefties, and also harnessed wider (and understandable) anger over Gaza

    The threat still appears relatively small but the potential is grave and serious. It’s a bit like seeing the first signs of a fire in a crowded theatre. How do you relay the serious danger to the theatre goers, without making everything worse, by causing a panic, yet also making sure people DO perceive the threat?

    Lee Anderson did the equivalent of leap around pointing at people shouting “arsonist! Arsonist!” That makes it easy to dismiss him as a nutter with a grudge and actually makes it harder to tell everyone, “er, there actually is a fire, we need to respond now”
    There is indeed a clear, present and lethal danger to our democracy. It comes from Putin and Trump.
    Those are both external threats. We also have an internal threat
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html

    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7"
    Something else to thank Hamas for then.
    Didn't have you down as an Islamophobe.
    I despise terrorism. Don't you?
    Yes, which is why I despise the Israeli terror-bombing of the Palestinian people.
    Hamas' human shields.
    Hamas wouldn't have come about if Israel had recognised Palestinian independence back in the 1990s.
    We've finally got there.

    The fact that there are Islamist terrorists is all the Jews' fault.

    I think it is past somebody's bedtime.
    Well get to bed, then.

    No Israeli occupation, no resistance to that occupation.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    nico679 said:

    The DE has another of its vomit inducing Sunak arse licking pieces where having been fxcked he’s now expecting northern voters to fall for his latest desperate guff .

    The spineless gimp thinks having a cabinet meeting in Yorkshire means levelling up is back on track .

    Oh behave, he's spending his HS2 dividend on the Northern Power House. Not a pothole found in Croydon since Christmas!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    Er, not according to the Mail Online:

    "Records show she took out a mortgage to pay £79,000 for the two-bedroom property, having been granted a £26,000 discount on its market value – a typical right-to-buy discount of one quarter. She sold it for £127,500 in March 2015, making a paper profit of £48,500. "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13121737/Rayners-48k-profit-council-house-sale-Starmers-deputy-used-Maggies-flagship-policy.html
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    nico679 said:

    The DE has another of its vomit inducing Sunak arse licking pieces where having been fxcked he’s now expecting northern voters to fall for his latest desperate guff .

    The spineless gimp thinks having a cabinet meeting in Yorkshire means levelling up is back on track .

    Are they going by helicopter? Just asking.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    Lol. Desperate stuff from the MoS.
    “I took up Lady Thatchers scheme for carpet bagging, and I now want to scrap it to deny it to everyone else.”

    Desperate? Or hypocrisy that’s going to cut to the bone with all voters? 🤔
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700
    George Eaton
    @georgeeaton
    ·


    The removal of the whip from Lee Anderson means the Tories’ overall majority is now just *46* (down from 80 in 2019).
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    In 1991 I bought a semi in Cardiff (never a council house) for £62,000. I sold it for £115,000 in 2000. Not too shabby eh? Mind you I spent the first two years gutting it room by room. My Labour was free, but I paid in sweat and elbow grease. Maybe Rayner did the same.

    Hardly a scandal. I daresay the MoS hacks in their younger days made more in 15 years from their studio flats in Carlton Terrace than Ange did from her council house.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,220

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @cathynewman

    Former @Conservatives chairwoman @SayeedaWarsi tells me on @Channel4News
    that @LeeAndersonMP_ @SuellaBraverman & @trussliz should find another party because she says their rhetoric is dividing the party and the country.

    Someone in that bunch should certainly find another party. I believe the Lib Dems would be suitable.
    Truss’ railing against the deep state as an excuse for her own breathtaking incompetence should be embarrassingly pathetic , unfortunately is not because there are a mob of armchair warriors that actually believe her nonsense.
    I care less about someone using fruity language to promote their book to Americans than I do about the real problems with the British state, namely a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground. Something which neither the current Government nor the assumed next one seem to want to do anything about.
    “ a class of self-interested and ideologically motivated functionaries running our country into the ground.”

    They have no ideology apart from

    1) People Like Us should keep running things.
    2) If we keep adding Process, one day, Real Soon, everything will be perfect.
    This thinking is the resort of people who don't want to face up to the fact that we have had a totally inept, misguided, shambles of a government for the past 14 years.

    "It's all the Blob, the lefty-liberal Blob! If only we'd been allowed to govern properly everything would be fine."
    It’s not a lefty blob. Or a righty blob. It’s a way of thinking that tries to remove thinking from the process. And morality. And accountability.

    Look at the Post Office mess - no ideology involved. And guess what? No one is interested in talking about how to stop it recurring. The same pattern is happening to more people, right now.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    Er, not according to the Mail Online:

    "Records show she took out a mortgage to pay £79,000 for the two-bedroom property, having been granted a £26,000 discount on its market value – a typical right-to-buy discount of one quarter. She sold it for £127,500 in March 2015, making a paper profit of £48,500. "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13121737/Rayners-48k-profit-council-house-sale-Starmers-deputy-used-Maggies-flagship-policy.html
    Made the mistake of relying on the accuracy of the bullet points at the top of the Mail Online story…

    Angela Rayner bought her council house in Stockport for £26,000 in 2007
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,239
    edited February 24

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    In 1991 I bought a semi in Cardiff (never a council house) for £62,000. I sold it for £115,000 in 2000. Not too shabby eh? Mind you I spent the first two years gutting it room by room. My Labour was free, but I paid in sweat and elbow grease. Maybe Rayner did the same.

    Hardly a scandal. I daresay the MoS hacks in their younger days made more in 15 years from their studio flats in Carlton Terrace than Ange did from her council house.
    It’s not a scandal.

    She was entitled to the discount and benefited from it. And as a minister she is entitled to scrap the policy going forward.

    Edit: although reading further in to it, it looks like she may have trod close to the line on addresses (both her and her husband were registered at different addresses, each of which were purchased under right to buy). I suspect too complicated to become a “scandal” but does leave a slightly nasty taste in the mouth
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited February 24
    All governments since 1979 have been neo-liberal.
    Blair - like Clinton in the US - was merely a more social democratic permutation.

    Neo-liberalism failed in 2008, but nobody seems to have figured out what should replace it. The right’s eventual response to failure has been to dispense with its ideological underpinnings altogether in favour of populism.

    It’s important to note that since 2010 the UK policy regime has been a unique blend of austerity + low investment + no housing + trade barriers + high immigration. But none of these are essentially right wing per se, and we can’t therefore necessarily expect a left wing party to change that formula.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643

    Truss was not “right wing”, if right wing is taken to include fiscal conservatism.

    Her policy was simply tax cuts for the rich on the never-never, which is why the bond markets threw a shit fit.

    The woman is simply a crackpot. It’s a terrifying indictment of British politics that she was even allowed into Cabinet, let alone the highest office in the land.

    The reason that Liz Truss cannot fly is that she has been held back by a deep state cabal of unelected scientific experts with their so called law of gravity.

    This blob is literally holding Britain down.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited February 24

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    Er, not according to the Mail Online:

    "Records show she took out a mortgage to pay £79,000 for the two-bedroom property, having been granted a £26,000 discount on its market value – a typical right-to-buy discount of one quarter. She sold it for £127,500 in March 2015, making a paper profit of £48,500. "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13121737/Rayners-48k-profit-council-house-sale-Starmers-deputy-used-Maggies-flagship-policy.html
    Made the mistake of relying on the accuracy of the bullet points at the top of the Mail Online story…

    Angela Rayner bought her council house in Stockport for £26,000 in 2007
    A quick check of the BoE inflation calculator shows that 79K in 2007 was alone worth 96K in 2015, and we don't know what capital improvements she put into it ...

    All rather thin beer and weak korma.

    Also, that weasel 'paper profit'. If she had then to buy a new house at a similarly Tory-inflated price, then ...

    But it's the usual stuff. We'll soon be told that she kept donkeys in the back yard for her mother.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    Jonathan said:

    Truss was not “right wing”, if right wing is taken to include fiscal conservatism.

    Her policy was simply tax cuts for the rich on the never-never, which is why the bond markets threw a shit fit.

    The woman is simply a crackpot. It’s a terrifying indictment of British politics that she was even allowed into Cabinet, let alone the highest office in the land.

    The reason that Liz Truss cannot fly is that she has been held back by a deep state cabal of unelected scientific experts with their so called law of gravity.

    This blob is literally holding Britain down.
    She's a member of the Natural Law Party? I think they'd sue you for that accusation.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    George Eaton
    @georgeeaton
    ·


    The removal of the whip from Lee Anderson means the Tories’ overall majority is now just *46* (down from 80 in 2019).

    Due to be 44 soon, surely?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Jonathan said:

    Truss was not “right wing”, if right wing is taken to include fiscal conservatism.

    Her policy was simply tax cuts for the rich on the never-never, which is why the bond markets threw a shit fit.

    The woman is simply a crackpot. It’s a terrifying indictment of British politics that she was even allowed into Cabinet, let alone the highest office in the land.

    The reason that Liz Truss cannot fly is that she has been held back by a deep state cabal of unelected scientific experts with their so called law of gravity.

    This blob is literally holding Britain down.
    At the same time, there most certainly is a blob.
    There’s always been a blob.
    Thatcher fought against a blob of wets.
    Churchill had to overcome an appeasement blob.

    I have *some* sympathy with the notion that it is jolly hard to get reform done. And it may even be harder than it ever has been.

    But Truss and Johnson and Cummings et al don’t really want reform. They simply wish to do what they want, unhindered by process or even, often, simple facts.
    But does the blob exist outside their subjective views? The Trussian blob will undoubtedly have been different from that faced by, say, Messrs Cameron or (in a counterfactual) Corbyn. Owes more to reading H. P. Lovecraft under the bedcover with a torch in her younger days.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    Er, not according to the Mail Online:

    "Records show she took out a mortgage to pay £79,000 for the two-bedroom property, having been granted a £26,000 discount on its market value – a typical right-to-buy discount of one quarter. She sold it for £127,500 in March 2015, making a paper profit of £48,500. "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13121737/Rayners-48k-profit-council-house-sale-Starmers-deputy-used-Maggies-flagship-policy.html
    Made the mistake of relying on the accuracy of the bullet points at the top of the Mail Online story…

    Angela Rayner bought her council house in Stockport for £26,000 in 2007
    A quick check of the BoE inflation calculator shows that 79K in 2007 was alone worth 96K in 2015, and we don't know what capital improvements she put into it ...

    All rather thin beer and weak korma.

    Also, that weasel 'paper profit'. If she had then to buy a new house at a similarly Tory-inflated price, then ...

    But it's the usual stuff. We'll soon be told that she kept donkeys in the back yard for her mother.
    How do you address the hypocrisy angle?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited February 24

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Beergate2 for the PB Tory’s to get stuck into on front of MoS.

    Rayners Housegate!

    48K net on a house bought in 2007? She must almost have been trying to *lose* money. And that's before correction for inflation, I assume.
    £48k profit on a £26k investment? 3x her money in 15 years is not too bad
    Er, not according to the Mail Online:

    "Records show she took out a mortgage to pay £79,000 for the two-bedroom property, having been granted a £26,000 discount on its market value – a typical right-to-buy discount of one quarter. She sold it for £127,500 in March 2015, making a paper profit of £48,500. "

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13121737/Rayners-48k-profit-council-house-sale-Starmers-deputy-used-Maggies-flagship-policy.html
    Made the mistake of relying on the accuracy of the bullet points at the top of the Mail Online story…

    Angela Rayner bought her council house in Stockport for £26,000 in 2007
    A quick check of the BoE inflation calculator shows that 79K in 2007 was alone worth 96K in 2015, and we don't know what capital improvements she put into it ...

    All rather thin beer and weak korma.

    Also, that weasel 'paper profit'. If she had then to buy a new house at a similarly Tory-inflated price, then ...

    But it's the usual stuff. We'll soon be told that she kept donkeys in the back yard for her mother.
    How do you address the hypocrisy angle?
    The question is whether there is anything in the first place. After the donkeys, I wouldn't believe anything the DM said about any Labour activist without scrutinising it very carefully, and we have already seen its malicious misrepresentation fooling intelligent PBers.

    PS Hope the lambing is going well, in this weather.
This discussion has been closed.