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A Dismal Spectacle – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    It is a question many of us have asked. Curious.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,143

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    The political centre of gravity is definitely drifting away from unquestioning support of Israel. It's probably going to need the inevitable formation of an Islamic political party to shatter the orthodoxy completely. I am surprised it hasn't happened already.

    Would you call that a good or bad thing?

    Though there is probably a market for it.
    Like Farage becoming Tory leader, it's one of those ideas that people love to talk about, but doesn't actually happen.

    What is more likely is you get a party that is not explicitly an Islamic political party, but which gathers much of its support from a Muslim community, which happened with RESPECT previously and with Aspire now. But, ultimately, neither RESPECT nor Aspire have shattered any orthodoxy. So I don't see why an Islamic political party, if such were to exist and garner some success, would either.
    There is a good twix thread on Aspire today - https://twitter.com/sam_bidwell/status/1760946308838273535

    And its conclusion is quite different to yours - "The emergence of kleptocratic, extremist-adjacent ethnic politics is a reminder of how poorly this country has managed immigration and integration. Our existing laws are not designed to deal with this. If we don't change things now, Tower Hamlets will not be an isolated case."
    Aspire are awful, and I’m glad if people are noticing that. But they’ve been around for a while now and the “orthodoxy” has not been “shattered”. Barely anyone outside Tower Hamlets have heard of them.
    You seem to have missed or wilfully ignored the conclusion of the thread, namely that our democratic system isn't designed robustly enough to deal with these threats as and when they occur. Which to my mind means it's only a matter of time before such things become more commonplace.

    We have the idea that there are established norms that everyone plays within, even though they don't have to. Then you get at Trump or a Boris who realises that you don't have to follow these established norms at all. And they exploit that to their advantage. And extremist-adjacent ethnic politicians won't play by those norms either, as demonstrated in the above thread.

    We are, at present, pretty lucky that extremist-adjacent ethnic politics aren't mainstream. Yet.

    It is the yet that is the cause for concern here, because there's very little that can prevent them from taking hold if and when they do. See also The Muslim Vote group, with Nick Timothy coming to some conclusions here - https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1755638901824241809
    I haven’t ignored the conclusion of the thread. I just consider it needlessly alarmist. Where are these other Aspire-like parties?

    Tower Hamlets politics has been shonky for as long as I can remember, long before Rahman. That’s not a good thing, but we’re not at Trump levels of dysfunction. Rahman is terrible, but he didn’t lead a mob to attack the Town Hall. I am glad irregularities in the council are being looked at. That is our democratic system dealing with the matter.

    Do you or Sam Bidwell have particular suggestions for how we should reform our democratic system to prevent these things happening?
    "We are, at present, pretty lucky that extremist-adjacent ethnic politics aren't mainstream. Yet."

    Yet.

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331

    eek said:

    Idiot known to be an idiot confirms she is an idiot
    What must her father, a Labour-supporting rationalist maths professor, think of her?

    https://eps.leeds.ac.uk/maths/staff/4087/professor-j-k-truss
    OMG I really feel for him, can you imagine?
    Indeed. It's all rather saddening.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    It is a question many of us have asked. Curious.
    My theory is WG was a sleeper agent for the dark forces of the right. He came out way too early.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    edited February 23

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,087

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Collar and chain jewellery apparently denotes that one is a "sub".
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 4,251
    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    In a way it’s a bit like Catholicism during Elizabeth 1’s reign especially. You have a part of the population who are of a different religion to the majority. That smaller part of the population, whilst “English” in this case, by virtue of their religion see a higher power in the Pope than their own ruler/government.

    Whilst the majority are peaceful and see their religion as a private matter and accept the authority of the English Crown, there is a minority who will not accept it, want to be part of the Catholic Church and its political web and so forment violence and rebellion to achieve their aims - supported by outside powers, funding and pressure as well as organisations such as the Jesuits.

    The majority of Catholics then get clamped down on heavily due to a minority’s acts because ultimately the danger to the rulers and the establishment is too great because the extremist catholics aren’t content with being allowed to worship their way, they want to take control and make everyone worship their way.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.







    Britain trumps
  • Options

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,191
    How is everyone going to celebrate SMOday tomorrow? I am going to mine my front lawn while singing Katyusha and use a DJI Mavic to drop an RKG on my neighbour's caravan. Then I will lie about how he had 500 tanks and I destroyed them all.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    It is a question many of us have asked. Curious.
    William likes to challenge people and play devil's advocate.

    He does it very well, and politely.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Agreed. Christian Democrats exist in many countries mind you.

    If Starmer is as bright as I suspect he may be he'll enjoy a 5 year term, maybe two, but make sure that he has PR firmly in place before exiting the stage.

    Let's not have to endure more years of Tory misrule dictated by a few 100 thousand party member nutjobs, eh?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,519

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.






    Britain trumps
    Not an unalloyed success.

    Bewildered Conservatives Greet a Fallen British Prime Minister
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/22/truss-at-cpac-00142807
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,699

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Collar and chain jewellery apparently denotes that one is a "sub".
    Is that why she was rapidly told to get in the sea?
  • Options

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    You won't find many people more suspicious of religion than me, but any group of like-minded people has the right to establish a political party if they so wish, and I'd support their right to do so. That is democracy.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,087
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    The political centre of gravity is definitely drifting away from unquestioning support of Israel. It's probably going to need the inevitable formation of an Islamic political party to shatter the orthodoxy completely. I am surprised it hasn't happened already.

    Would you call that a good or bad thing?

    Though there is probably a market for it.
    Like Farage becoming Tory leader, it's one of those ideas that people love to talk about, but doesn't actually happen.

    What is more likely is you get a party that is not explicitly an Islamic political party, but which gathers much of its support from a Muslim community, which happened with RESPECT previously and with Aspire now. But, ultimately, neither RESPECT nor Aspire have shattered any orthodoxy. So I don't see why an Islamic political party, if such were to exist and garner some success, would either.
    There is a good twix thread on Aspire today - https://twitter.com/sam_bidwell/status/1760946308838273535

    And its conclusion is quite different to yours - "The emergence of kleptocratic, extremist-adjacent ethnic politics is a reminder of how poorly this country has managed immigration and integration. Our existing laws are not designed to deal with this. If we don't change things now, Tower Hamlets will not be an isolated case."
    Aspire are awful, and I’m glad if people are noticing that. But they’ve been around for a while now and the “orthodoxy” has not been “shattered”. Barely anyone outside Tower Hamlets have heard of them.
    You seem to have missed or wilfully ignored the conclusion of the thread, namely that our democratic system isn't designed robustly enough to deal with these threats as and when they occur. Which to my mind means it's only a matter of time before such things become more commonplace.

    We have the idea that there are established norms that everyone plays within, even though they don't have to. Then you get at Trump or a Boris who realises that you don't have to follow these established norms at all. And they exploit that to their advantage. And extremist-adjacent ethnic politicians won't play by those norms either, as demonstrated in the above thread.

    We are, at present, pretty lucky that extremist-adjacent ethnic politics aren't mainstream. Yet.

    It is the yet that is the cause for concern here, because there's very little that can prevent them from taking hold if and when they do. See also The Muslim Vote group, with Nick Timothy coming to some conclusions here - https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1755638901824241809
    Liverpool and Scotland used to have Catholic and Protestant Political Parties at local level. I'm not convinced that explicitly religious political parties are a great idea.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    The most successful explicitly religious political party in the UK at present is the Christian Peoples Alliance, who got about six and a half thousand votes at the last general election.

    The most successful religious political party, but they don’t explicitly define themselves in those terms, is the DUP. One could also mention the Scottish Family Party, who got 16k at the last Scottish Parliamentary election.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650
    Dura_Ace said:

    How is everyone going to celebrate SMOday tomorrow? I am going to mine my front lawn while singing Katyusha and use a DJI Mavic to drop an RKG on my neighbour's caravan. Then I will lie about how he had 500 tanks and I destroyed them all.

    Naughty.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650
    Dura_Ace said:

    How is everyone going to celebrate SMOday tomorrow? I am going to mine my front lawn while singing Katyusha and use a DJI Mavic to drop an RKG on my neighbour's caravan. Then I will lie about how he had 500 tanks and I destroyed them all.

    Naughty.
  • Options

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Agreed. Christian Democrats exist in many countries mind you.

    If Starmer is as bright as I suspect he may be he'll enjoy a 5 year term, maybe two, but make sure that he has PR firmly in place before exiting the stage.

    Let's not have to endure more years of Tory misrule dictated by a few 100 thousand party member nutjobs, eh?
    Do they have a few 100,000 members even
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    I agree with you but would you be as upset at the idea of a Christian Party, such as the German CDU?

  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 954
    IanB2 said:

    Of all the aspects of this fiasco, the fact that it might suggest that threats of violence have some effect is the one that worries me the least. No-one who had made or is thinking of making such threats is going to see having a Labour amendment taken on an SNP opposition day as any kind of victory, or anything worth having, or worth trying to repeat.

    And it is noticeable, in any case, that nothing was said about this ‘security’ explanation for the Speaker’s ruling on the day; this story has emerged only after it turned into a scandal. If we do the Speaker the favour of assuming that it’s genuine, and not a convenient post hoc explanation, it is likely that Starmer put such concerns to him to try and ‘persuade’ the Speaker to make a ruling that just happened to get Starmer out of a huge political hole, security concerns or no.

    The big issue is that a combination of absurdly arcane parliamentary procedure and the appalling behaviour of members across the chamber has brought our national politics further into disrepute.

    The bit in bold isn't quite true - Beth Rigby was reporting about members' "concerns for personal safety" putting pressure on the speaker within minutes of the decision being announced, before the debate started on Wednesday

    On the matter on pressure on Speaker. Am told that many MPs made a personal pleas to Sir Lindsay about amendments. MPs' have growing concerns for personal safety after incidents of confrontations & protests over the Israel-Hamas war.
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1760306065634124018
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    edited February 23

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Agreed. Christian Democrats exist in many countries mind you.

    If Starmer is as bright as I suspect he may be he'll enjoy a 5 year term, maybe two, but make sure that he has PR firmly in place before exiting the stage.

    Let's not have to endure more years of Tory misrule dictated by a few 100 thousand party member nutjobs, eh?
    Do they have a few 100,000 members even
    According to Wiki, Conservative Party Membership in 2022 was 172,437.
  • Options

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    You won't find many people more suspicious of religion than me, but any group of like-minded people has the right to establish a political party if they so wish, and I'd support their right to do so. That is democracy.
    Absolutely. I'm not advocating banning it, I just wouldn't like it. I don't want to have a government that makes decisions for me through the lens of a religion- any religion.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    We'll never know will we?

    Personally, I think Corbyn would have been kept in check by the sensible wing of the Labour Party but equally I cannot know that.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256
    Nigelb said:

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.






    Britain trumps
    Not an unalloyed success.

    Bewildered Conservatives Greet a Fallen British Prime Minister
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/22/truss-at-cpac-00142807
    From that article: “The former British prime minister who lasted just seven weeks in office spoke in a hotel conference room that was less than half full, sandwiched between a social conservative activist who insisted “there is no such thing” as transgender children and a far-right author who insists that the January 6 attack on the Capitol was “the biggest instance of police brutality” in the United States since the Civil Rights movement.”
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,222

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    Are you really, really sure about that? Given how things have turned out?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,340

    Shenanigans in Parliament just reinforce the absolute need for reform - a lot of this goes back to the speaker rows of the 00s (expenses) and then Bercow and the Boris antics (proroguing parliament etc) and now this where the Speaker bends to pressure (for a range of reasons I sense) and thats even before we get on to PM patronage powers, Peerages and the Lords... hopefully some glimmer might be it reinforces the need for political reform of Parliament but I'll not hold my breath.

    Yup. And that is an opinion shared by Hoyle. He made the point that the standing order forcing the order of votes was outdated and needed to be changed.
    Like Hoyle himself
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    We'll never know will we?

    Personally, I think Corbyn would have been kept in check by the sensible wing of the Labour Party but equally I cannot know that.
    It would have been interesting. Having a PM not in thrall to big business and banking might have been refreshing. Scary, naive, but a great experiment!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,519

    Nigelb said:

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.






    Britain trumps
    Not an unalloyed success.

    Bewildered Conservatives Greet a Fallen British Prime Minister
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/22/truss-at-cpac-00142807
    From that article: “The former British prime minister who lasted just seven weeks in office spoke in a hotel conference room that was less than half full, sandwiched between a social conservative activist who insisted “there is no such thing” as transgender children and a far-right author who insists that the January 6 attack on the Capitol was “the biggest instance of police brutality” in the United States since the Civil Rights movement.”
    You didn't read to the end for the best bit.

    ..The other selfie request came from Sami Gold, a George Washington University student, who insisted to Truss that “I’m your biggest fan” as she walked by. He wasn’t, he later revealed. Instead, Gold just thought it would be neat to take a photo with a world leader and seeing her was part of the charm of showing up at CPAC.

    “It’s 50 bucks for meeting some of the most insane people on Earth,” said Gold. “It’s great.”
  • Options

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Agreed. Christian Democrats exist in many countries mind you.

    If Starmer is as bright as I suspect he may be he'll enjoy a 5 year term, maybe two, but make sure that he has PR firmly in place before exiting the stage.

    Let's not have to endure more years of Tory misrule dictated by a few 100 thousand party member nutjobs, eh?
    Do they have a few 100,000 members even
    According to Wiki, Conservative Party Membership in 2022 was 172,437.
    My wife and I have resigned since then though !!!!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    I agree with you but would you be as upset at the idea of a Christian Party, such as the German CDU?

    No.
  • Options

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    Are you really, really sure about that? Given how things have turned out?
    Absolutely certain
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    Are you really, really sure about that? Given how things have turned out?
    Both are reprehensible scoundrels. Are there gradations of 0/10?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088
    This is the earliest convo I can find on pb referencing gpt3 - march 9, 2021

    It’s between me and @Casino_Royale

    I warn him ‘don’t go down that gpt3 rabbithole, you won’t ever come out’

    Hah. Quite poignant on reflection

    Also I remember this time vividly (unfortunately) - we were still in dismal wintry lockdown 3, and I managed to fend off suicide (just about) by researching gpt3 and AI - having been clued up to the latest advances by @FrancisUrquhart

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/09/with-7-weeks-to-go-before-scotland-votes-the-latest-three-polls-find-voters-opposed-to-another-indyref/

    There must be an earlier reference to gpt3 than this (otherwise how come my chat with casino?) but I can’t find it

    And now here we are, 3 years later, and AI is shuttering planned hollywood studios. Astonishing speed
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour Muslim voters to set up a uniquely Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
    Is that better?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,340
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    What could have people done differently to avoid this chaos.

    The SNP could have sought consensus and created a unifying statement and downplayed partisan posturing.
    The Conservatives could have supported the speakers motives, allowed the vote and used their majority to assert their authority
    Labour could have adopted a more aggressive position against Israel and backed the snp motion.
    Hoyle could have ignored the safety fears of MPs and rigidly stuck to old rules.

    When you look at it this way, of the main actors, the SNP and the Conservatives were in the position to be most constructive. Hoyle is not the villain.

    Yes. With every respect to Cyclefree, I disagree on this one. We entirely agree that the threat (or indeed fact) of violence to MPs is a threat to democracy itself. That is an issue of policing, but also places a responsibility on partisans of all colours not to whip up hatred of their opponents.

    However, there is a substantial body of opinion in Parliament which agrees with the Labour motion - essentially demanding an immediate ceasefire without going as far as to accuse Israel of collective punishment. One can agree or disagree, but that's a perfectly respectable position. MPs who agree with this would like to show constituents that they mean it - and that's not only the small minority who are actually threatening, but also the majority who are horrified by what's happening In Gaza and want their MPs to show they agree.

    The SNP motion was crafted in a way to make it difficult for anyone who agrees with the above to vote for it. The Conservatives, by pressing their own motion, were using Parliamentary procedure to prevent a vote on Labour's amendment. Both parties were actively trying to stop Labour MPs from voting for their preferred policy, hoping to create a split. Hoyle, by his decision, enabled MPs to vote on all three options - which enabled MPs to show constituents what they actually stood for. By their silly walkout and general simulated outrage, the Tories and SNP have colluded to obscure that and portray the whole thing as a mess. The actual motion that was agreed was entirely obscured for partisan reasons.

    Yes, MPs who are actually threatened will probably be slightly less threatened as a result, and that's a benefit too - our disgust at threats of violence shouldn't extend to not allowing MPs to show that they aren't ignoring their constituents.

    I understand the point that the SNP doesn't get many supply days and should be able to ensure that their motions get properly considered and voted on. I agree. But if they use that to put down a divisive motion they should expect an attempt to amend it - there is nothing undemocratic in that whatsoever.
    Labour had plenty of opportunities to put it's motion before the house. The most recent being February 6th. It was the SNP's day, the convention is there because the 2nd party in our system tends to be much bigger than the 3rd, so they shouldn't be able to butt in on the 3rd party's days.
    Most of the time you don’t use an opposition day to score points against another opposition party

    Thankfully after the next election the SNP will be back to minor party status and will no longer get to grandstand for the lols
    Confident
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
    ?? How dense are you Topping?

    By all means disagree with Mexicanpete's view, that is your right, but pretending not to understand his comment is a bit dim.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,340
    TOPPING said:

    Very good article Cyclefree.

    As for Hoyle's giving in, his job is presumably to protect "his" MPs. It is those MPs to decide whether they should tell him they are fearful and enough of them did to make him act. This can be divorced from the political element of the threat and in this case Israel/Gaza.

    It is the MPs fault, rather than Hoyle's, from what I have understood of the details.

    Off with teh fool's head I say, after a few weeks in the Tower
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650
    Oh that's a shame the big fat bloke from The Office (UK), Ewen MacIntosh, died a couple of days ago.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477
    Interesting thread on Google’s woke AI problems:

    https://x.com/yishan/status/1760859214875132161

    That’s not why this is important. This event is not significant for culture war reasons. You just think so because that’s all anyone is thinking about these days, and everyone has missed the real danger.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,340
    TOPPING said:

    Oh that's a shame the big fat bloke from The Office (UK), Ewen MacIntosh, died a couple of days ago.

    You been in a coma Topping
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,872
    kamski said:

    nico679 said:

    She really has lost the plot .
    Yes, initially I was prepared to be kind: she had a terrible personal experience, so perhaps all the odd stuff was just some kind of coping mechanism. But of late she's actually becoming dangerous on a global level - arguably the most dangerous person this country has ever produced.
    on a global level? around here nobody knows who 'Liz Truss' is. Mention the 'Salatkopf' and they might know who you mean.
    In a few months you'll be able to recreate her state of mind legally :)

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/23/germany-on-track-to-partly-legalise-cannabis-for-personal-use-after-heated-debate
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour Muslim voters to set up a uniquely Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
    Is that better?
    Or indeed:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour bird watching voters to set up a uniquely Birdwatching Party."
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    Toby Young on WATO.

    "Keir Starmer is placating Muslim extremism mobs". my precis. "Starmer will introduce pro- Muslim blasphemy laws". Also my precis.

    Toby agrees with Suella's Telegraph article. Although Jonny Diamond did put words in his mouth.

    Chakrobati is the foil and Jonny is clearly on the Toby side of the fence.

    Toby is a ****!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
    Truss was wearing - and, indeed, constantly wears - what is called a ‘day collar’. This is a fairly discreet necklace or piece of neckwear with S&M hints - perhaps a chain and/or an O Ring like an O gag

    This is an ‘o gag’ for more sheltered pb-ers

    https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/o_ring_gag

    A day collar is a signal to other kinksters that the wearer is a ‘collared sub’ - she acknowledges one or more sexual partners as her owner or dominant. They can be male or female or whatever

    But it is sufficiently anodyne and vanilla that 99.999% of people won’t ever notice it, only the super smart and observant - ie me, after watching 2 minutes of her on the sunak debate - will ever spot it


    Truss has since worn much more overt bdsm clothing and jewelry and she basically admits it now, and there are multiple stories of her being in this world. It is not disputed that this is her thing
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh that's a shame the big fat bloke from The Office (UK), Ewen MacIntosh, died a couple of days ago.

    You been in a coma Topping
    Blimey it was only just released Malc I'm not over all news outlets everywhere. Apart from PB, in which I am disappointed for not telling me earlier.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,331

    Interesting thread on Google’s woke AI problems:

    https://x.com/yishan/status/1760859214875132161

    That’s not why this is important. This event is not significant for culture war reasons. You just think so because that’s all anyone is thinking about these days, and everyone has missed the real danger.

    What did you think of Liz Trump's speech?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour Muslim voters to set up a uniquely Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
    Is that better?
    Or indeed:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour bird watching voters to set up a uniquely Birdwatching Party."
    But that is not what you were suggesting. With all due respect, you are a little confused. Shall I call your carer?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650
    edited February 23

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
    ?? How dense are you Topping?

    By all means disagree with Mexicanpete's view, that is your right, but pretending not to understand his comment is a bit dim.
    He was making a sweeping statement about Muslims, how all Muslims by some natural process must be Labour voters, and how he treats them like a bloc.

    Is what I took issue with.

    Mate I don't mind explaining my posts to idiots but it is quite a waste of time and boring for those who get it the first time.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,163

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Agreed. Christian Democrats exist in many countries mind you.

    If Starmer is as bright as I suspect he may be he'll enjoy a 5 year term, maybe two, but make sure that he has PR firmly in place before exiting the stage.

    Let's not have to endure more years of Tory misrule dictated by a few 100 thousand party member nutjobs, eh?
    Do they have a few 100,000 members even
    According to Wiki, Conservative Party Membership in 2022 was 172,437.
    My wife and I have resigned since then though !!!!
    But TSE rejoined so that's only net -1 members, and I suspect net -1 'sane members' too, so the nutjob element has probably increased its hold a little bit.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    Leon said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
    Truss was wearing - and, indeed, constantly wears - what is called a ‘day collar’. This is a fairly discreet necklace or piece of neckwear with S&M hints - perhaps a chain and/or an O Ring like an O gag

    This is an ‘o gag’ for more sheltered pb-ers

    https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/o_ring_gag

    A day collar is a signal to other kinksters that the wearer is a ‘collared sub’ - she acknowledges one or more sexual partners as her owner or dominant. They can be male or female or whatever

    But it is sufficiently anodyne and vanilla that 99.999% of people won’t ever notice it, only the super smart and observant - ie me, after watching 2 minutes of her on the sunak debate - will ever spot it


    Truss has since worn much more overt bdsm clothing and jewelry and she basically admits it now, and there are multiple stories of her being in this world. It is not disputed that this is her thing
    A very comprehensive explanation. Thank you.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,067
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.






    Britain trumps
    Not an unalloyed success.

    Bewildered Conservatives Greet a Fallen British Prime Minister
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/02/22/truss-at-cpac-00142807
    From that article: “The former British prime minister who lasted just seven weeks in office spoke in a hotel conference room that was less than half full, sandwiched between a social conservative activist who insisted “there is no such thing” as transgender children and a far-right author who insists that the January 6 attack on the Capitol was “the biggest instance of police brutality” in the United States since the Civil Rights movement.”
    You didn't read to the end for the best bit.

    ..The other selfie request came from Sami Gold, a George Washington University student, who insisted to Truss that “I’m your biggest fan” as she walked by. He wasn’t, he later revealed. Instead, Gold just thought it would be neat to take a photo with a world leader and seeing her was part of the charm of showing up at CPAC.

    “It’s 50 bucks for meeting some of the most insane people on Earth,” said Gold. “It’s great.”
    Hmm is this like a meet & greet at a Comic-con ?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
    "Whatabout..?"

    I'm not particularly interested in the left-liberal virtue signalling of, "hey, look at me, look at how open-minded, fair and unbigoted I am, particularly compared to you", stuff.

    We need to get beyond that. We've had far too much of that over the last 10-15 years and it's allowed some serious issues to incubate.

    We have a serious problem here with political Islam.

    Engage with it.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,760
    On topic. Cyclefree - you have called this utterly the wrong way round.

    It’s not radicals in UKs Jewish community targeting MP homes and offices. Don’t you know who the para-glider wearers are out there?

    Labour MPs who don’t vote for the SNPs mischievous Pro Hamas motions, are the ones who then live in fear.

    It definitely was the SNP Tory alliance who sought to exploit this tinder box of fear for political advantage this week, by adding heat to the tinder.

    What an appalling header. How could you have read this so wrongly?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,650
    edited February 23

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    ...

    TOPPING said:

    I cycled to Canary Wharf yday (shocking weather but I was well-protected) and missed the turn off from CS3 to the place itself so ended up in an adjacent neighbourhood. Through which you could barely move for Palestinian flags. I suppose it might be the same in Golders Green with Israeli flags.

    As this next GE appears to be about to be fought over the killing fields of Gaza I don't see why there shouldn't be an Islamic Party established. It does, however, somewhat give the lie to those who disagreed with me when I said that unlike other religions today, Islam is both a religion and a political system which differentiates and explains actions taken in its name.

    I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for a Muslim Party.
    I don't know what that comment means.
    Shall I explain it in simple bullet points?

    * A split Labour vote assists the Tories
    * A split Labour votes under FPTP assists the election of Tory MPs.
    * Remaining PB Tories want more Tory MPs, in fact enough to form another government.
    Where does the "shilling for a Muslim Party" come from. Are you saying all Muslims vote Labour as a matter of course. Does our very own @TSE know this, for example? It might come as a shock to him.
    Of course I am not suggesting everyone in a particular creed group vote for one party. Evidence suggests that certain inner city Muslim voters are for whatever reason, more inclined towards the Labour Party (at the moment) it is therefore in your interests as a loyal Conservative to divide this vote. That is entirely your justifiable choice. I was merely making an observation.
    "certain inner city Muslim voters..."

    Yeah I mean I sort of hear you but it doesn't explain this comment:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour Muslim voters to set up a uniquely Muslim Party."

    Perhaps you could rephrase it to help me.
    Is that better?
    Or indeed:

    "I don't find it remarkable that those posters hoping for another Conservative Government are shilling for current Labour bird watching voters to set up a uniquely Birdwatching Party."
    But that is not what you were suggesting. With all due respect, you are a little confused. Shall I call your carer?
    You have insufficiently clearly explained your original comment and from that I take it that you are, rightly, embarrassed by it. As evidenced by your amendment of it and resort to insults about my carer. Who is, I'll have you know, a consummate professional.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,176
    Leon said:

    This is the earliest convo I can find on pb referencing gpt3 - march 9, 2021

    It’s between me and @Casino_Royale

    I warn him ‘don’t go down that gpt3 rabbithole, you won’t ever come out’

    Hah. Quite poignant on reflection

    Also I remember this time vividly (unfortunately) - we were still in dismal wintry lockdown 3, and I managed to fend off suicide (just about) by researching gpt3 and AI - having been clued up to the latest advances by @FrancisUrquhart

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/09/with-7-weeks-to-go-before-scotland-votes-the-latest-three-polls-find-voters-opposed-to-another-indyref/

    There must be an earlier reference to gpt3 than this (otherwise how come my chat with casino?) but I can’t find it

    And now here we are, 3 years later, and AI is shuttering planned hollywood studios. Astonishing speed

    Leon said:

    This is the earliest convo I can find on pb referencing gpt3 - march 9, 2021

    It’s between me and @Casino_Royale

    I warn him ‘don’t go down that gpt3 rabbithole, you won’t ever come out’

    Hah. Quite poignant on reflection

    Also I remember this time vividly (unfortunately) - we were still in dismal wintry lockdown 3, and I managed to fend off suicide (just about) by researching gpt3 and AI - having been clued up to the latest advances by @FrancisUrquhart

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/03/09/with-7-weeks-to-go-before-scotland-votes-the-latest-three-polls-find-voters-opposed-to-another-indyref/

    There must be an earlier reference to gpt3 than this (otherwise how come my chat with casino?) but I can’t find it

    And now here we are, 3 years later, and AI is shuttering planned hollywood studios. Astonishing speed

    Not sure I remember that one.

    And I'm terrible at finding old posts.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,340
    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Oh that's a shame the big fat bloke from The Office (UK), Ewen MacIntosh, died a couple of days ago.

    You been in a coma Topping
    Blimey it was only just released Malc I'm not over all news outlets everywhere. Apart from PB, in which I am disappointed for not telling me earlier.
    I did not even know him and I knew it, was on some news on sky or BBC or suchlike. Most people would not have had a clue who he was.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    edited February 23

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Well, look at what the hero of the eponymous film did at the end of If, the preceding instalment. He and his fellow-heroes, or at least protagonists, machine-gun the entire Establishment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ1LG08ssaM

    Warning: not suggesting that our LG would dream of doing such a thing literally.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,340

    Leon said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
    Truss was wearing - and, indeed, constantly wears - what is called a ‘day collar’. This is a fairly discreet necklace or piece of neckwear with S&M hints - perhaps a chain and/or an O Ring like an O gag

    This is an ‘o gag’ for more sheltered pb-ers

    https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/o_ring_gag

    A day collar is a signal to other kinksters that the wearer is a ‘collared sub’ - she acknowledges one or more sexual partners as her owner or dominant. They can be male or female or whatever

    But it is sufficiently anodyne and vanilla that 99.999% of people won’t ever notice it, only the super smart and observant - ie me, after watching 2 minutes of her on the sunak debate - will ever spot it


    Truss has since worn much more overt bdsm clothing and jewelry and she basically admits it now, and there are multiple stories of her being in this world. It is not disputed that this is her thing
    A very comprehensive explanation. Thank you.
    I lead a sheltered life so it would never occur to me.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,905
    " “We have an arbitrary fiscal rule that treats public investment as if it is bad. This is absurd,” said TS Lombard’s Mr Perkins. The two main parties have both accepted this destructive arrangement as if it were sacrosanct. Both are having to back away from their core strategies.

    This is toxic in a democracy. It is not needed, either. The markets know the difference between bad borrowing for consumption, and good borrowing that lifts productivity, and that pays for itself through the multiplier. Bond vigilantes will discipline idiocy without any need for a fiscal watchdog."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/02/23/bank-england-risks-pushing-britain-economic-death-trap/
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339

    Interesting thread on Google’s woke AI problems:

    https://x.com/yishan/status/1760859214875132161

    That’s not why this is important. This event is not significant for culture war reasons. You just think so because that’s all anyone is thinking about these days, and everyone has missed the real danger.

    The thread in question points out that by giving a simple instruction and then by following it's own internal logic, a LLM may produce counterintuitive results that will range from the bizarre to the dangerous. The twixter also mentions Susan Calvin twice and is therefore kewl.

    https://nitter.tux.pizza/yishan/

  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,355
    edited February 23
    Leon said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
    Truss was wearing - and, indeed, constantly wears - what is called a ‘day collar’. This is a fairly discreet necklace or piece of neckwear with S&M hints - perhaps a chain and/or an O Ring like an O gag

    This is an ‘o gag’ for more sheltered pb-ers

    https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/o_ring_gag

    A day collar is a signal to other kinksters that the wearer is a ‘collared sub’ - she acknowledges one or more sexual partners as her owner or dominant. They can be male or female or whatever

    But it is sufficiently anodyne and vanilla that 99.999% of people won’t ever notice it, only the super smart and observant - ie me, after watching 2 minutes of her on the sunak debate - will ever spot it


    Truss has since worn much more overt bdsm clothing and jewelry and she basically admits it now, and there are multiple stories of her being in this world. It is not disputed that this is her thing
    I will never now be able to disentangle this from your interest in XL Bullies.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,344
    CatMan said:

    kamski said:

    nico679 said:

    She really has lost the plot .
    Yes, initially I was prepared to be kind: she had a terrible personal experience, so perhaps all the odd stuff was just some kind of coping mechanism. But of late she's actually becoming dangerous on a global level - arguably the most dangerous person this country has ever produced.
    on a global level? around here nobody knows who 'Liz Truss' is. Mention the 'Salatkopf' and they might know who you mean.
    In a few months you'll be able to recreate her state of mind legally :)

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/23/germany-on-track-to-partly-legalise-cannabis-for-personal-use-after-heated-debate
    Sensible to put into law what happens in practice already. And is in line with the 1994 ruling of the Constitutional Court that the law against cannabis could only be constitutional if it wasn't generally used to prosecute people only in possession of a 'small amount'.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
    "Whatabout..?"

    I'm not particularly interested in the left-liberal virtue signalling of, "hey, look at me, look at how open-minded, fair and unbigoted I am, particularly compared to you", stuff.

    We need to get beyond that. We've had far too much of that over the last 10-15 years and it's allowed some serious issues to incubate.

    We have a serious problem here with political Islam.

    Engage with it.
    Blair invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. We started it!
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088

    Leon said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
    Truss was wearing - and, indeed, constantly wears - what is called a ‘day collar’. This is a fairly discreet necklace or piece of neckwear with S&M hints - perhaps a chain and/or an O Ring like an O gag

    This is an ‘o gag’ for more sheltered pb-ers

    https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/o_ring_gag

    A day collar is a signal to other kinksters that the wearer is a ‘collared sub’ - she acknowledges one or more sexual partners as her owner or dominant. They can be male or female or whatever

    But it is sufficiently anodyne and vanilla that 99.999% of people won’t ever notice it, only the super smart and observant - ie me, after watching 2 minutes of her on the sunak debate - will ever spot it


    Truss has since worn much more overt bdsm clothing and jewelry and she basically admits it now, and there are multiple stories of her being in this world. It is not disputed that this is her thing
    A very comprehensive explanation. Thank you.
    You’re welcome. And tbf I do have personal experience of this world, which clearly helped me immediately see what she was wearing within 90 seconds of tuning in

    Also she was wearing a blue dress with a bondage lace motif! She obviously doesn’t care who knows. I kind of admire her for that

    It’s just a shame that virtually everything else she does is utterly calamitous
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,889

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    We'll never know will we?

    Personally, I think Corbyn would have been kept in check by the sensible wing of the Labour Party but equally I cannot know that.
    I would go further. I think he would barely have has time to unpack before he was squeezed out in one way or another.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    Over to Leon, he is an expert on Truss's (jewellery) charm.
    Truss was wearing - and, indeed, constantly wears - what is called a ‘day collar’. This is a fairly discreet necklace or piece of neckwear with S&M hints - perhaps a chain and/or an O Ring like an O gag

    This is an ‘o gag’ for more sheltered pb-ers

    https://www.etsy.com/uk/market/o_ring_gag

    A day collar is a signal to other kinksters that the wearer is a ‘collared sub’ - she acknowledges one or more sexual partners as her owner or dominant. They can be male or female or whatever

    But it is sufficiently anodyne and vanilla that 99.999% of people won’t ever notice it, only the super smart and observant - ie me, after watching 2 minutes of her on the sunak debate - will ever spot it


    Truss has since worn much more overt bdsm clothing and jewelry and she basically admits it now, and there are multiple stories of her being in this world. It is not disputed that this is her thing
    A very comprehensive explanation. Thank you.
    You’re welcome. And tbf I do have personal experience of this world, which clearly helped me immediately see what she was wearing within 90 seconds of tuning in

    Also she was wearing a blue dress with a bondage lace motif! She obviously doesn’t care who knows. I kind of admire her for that

    It’s just a shame that virtually everything else she does is utterly calamitous
    She applied her sadistic streak during her 49 days. If she is ever voted in as PM again we will be demonstrating our masochism.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681

    IanB2 said:

    ...

    We need to start keeping a list of these Tory fucktards who are coming out for Trump.

    Jake Berry
    Liz Trump
    Jacob Rees-Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    It’s becoming a thing.
    William Glenn
    The Kitchen Cabinet / Mr Ed
    Has Mr Ed really transformed from a TV horse character into an item of IKEA furniture?

    @Oluckyman or whatever his name is also shills for Tru mp/ss

    Yes, it's one of the more remarkable PB transformations
    William Glenn's transformation from Euro-Federalist Remainer to full frontal MAGA apologist is quite remarkable. Has anyone ever seen Liz Truss and William Glenn in the same rightwing conference room, and does he wear an S and M charm?
    What is a S and M charm ?
    You'll regret asking Big_G - S&M = sado-masochism.

    Liz Truss wears a necklace that Leon advises has an S&M pendant on it. And I am not in a position to say he's wrong tbh.
    My wife maintains that I have a very mischievous side, so maybe it has just been activated with my question !!!!!
    Voting for Boris Johnson created enough mischief for a lifetime, thank you very much
    Better than voting for Corbyn though
    We'll never know will we?

    Personally, I think Corbyn would have been kept in check by the sensible wing of the Labour Party but equally I cannot know that.
    I would go further. I think he would barely have has time to unpack before he was squeezed out in one way or another.
    A very appropriate analogy for Corbyn.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    So to summarise

    Truss is a sexual submissive
    Sunak is a dork who likes conspiracy theories
    Boris has the self-control of a small dog on heat

    Where do they get them? Is there a farm somewhere? "People unsuitable to be PM: BOGOF!" on a bench next to the path?
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,731
    edited February 23
    In reference to an earlier comment, of course Starmer won't throw out anything good that the Tories have done while in power.
    He'll keep the £2 capped bus fare.
    Er, that's it.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,889

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
    But the risk is downgraded to "Low" on Sunday mornings as all of the terrorists are attending mass.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,248

    " “We have an arbitrary fiscal rule that treats public investment as if it is bad. This is absurd,” said TS Lombard’s Mr Perkins. The two main parties have both accepted this destructive arrangement as if it were sacrosanct. Both are having to back away from their core strategies.

    This is toxic in a democracy. It is not needed, either. The markets know the difference between bad borrowing for consumption, and good borrowing that lifts productivity, and that pays for itself through the multiplier. Bond vigilantes will discipline idiocy without any need for a fiscal watchdog."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/02/23/bank-england-risks-pushing-britain-economic-death-trap/

    We are truly f**ked.

    On one level that’s an article from AEB that I can agree with, but equally AEB has written something that makes sense.

    This universe simulation has truly gone wrong
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,872
    kamski said:

    CatMan said:

    kamski said:

    nico679 said:

    She really has lost the plot .
    Yes, initially I was prepared to be kind: she had a terrible personal experience, so perhaps all the odd stuff was just some kind of coping mechanism. But of late she's actually becoming dangerous on a global level - arguably the most dangerous person this country has ever produced.
    on a global level? around here nobody knows who 'Liz Truss' is. Mention the 'Salatkopf' and they might know who you mean.
    In a few months you'll be able to recreate her state of mind legally :)

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/23/germany-on-track-to-partly-legalise-cannabis-for-personal-use-after-heated-debate
    Sensible to put into law what happens in practice already. And is in line with the 1994 ruling of the Constitutional Court that the law against cannabis could only be constitutional if it wasn't generally used to prosecute people only in possession of a 'small amount'.
    Oh I agree. Could never happen here though. Our drug laws are decided by Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423
    viewcode said:

    So to summarise

    Truss is a sexual submissive
    Sunak is a dork who likes conspiracy theories
    Boris has the self-control of a small dog on heat

    Where do they get them? Is there a farm somewhere? "People unsuitable to be PM: BOGOF!" on a bench next to the path?

    Yeah, I keep them on a farm next to my media experts (*). I'll sell you one, if you want: left, right or centrist, I've got a politician for whatever your needs. A few are even house-trained...

    (*) I once let the politicians loose amongst the media experts. The results were rather alarming...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    You won't find many people more suspicious of religion than me, but any group of like-minded people has the right to establish a political party if they so wish, and I'd support their right to do so. That is democracy.
    It'd be possible to support the right to do it and regard it as a bad idea for the country.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    FFS! This government can't even manage to exonerate convicted subpostmasters properly ..... 😡

    https://open.substack.com/pub/rozenberg/p/flaw-in-the-ointment?r=2ch8i4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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    LeonLeon Posts: 48,088
    viewcode said:

    So to summarise

    Truss is a sexual submissive
    Sunak is a dork who likes conspiracy theories
    Boris has the self-control of a small dog on heat

    Where do they get them? Is there a farm somewhere? "People unsuitable to be PM: BOGOF!" on a bench next to the path?

    Sunak is, by all accounts, a little bit more interesting than that
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    edited February 23

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
    But the risk is downgraded to "Low" on Sunday mornings as all of the terrorists are attending mass.
    Half of them are attending a definitely non-Catholic church.

    image
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,519

    viewcode said:

    So to summarise

    Truss is a sexual submissive
    Sunak is a dork who likes conspiracy theories
    Boris has the self-control of a small dog on heat

    Where do they get them? Is there a farm somewhere? "People unsuitable to be PM: BOGOF!" on a bench next to the path?

    Yeah, I keep them on a farm next to my media experts (*). I'll sell you one, if you want: left, right or centrist, I've got a politician for whatever your needs. A few are even house-trained...

    (*) I once let the politicians loose amongst the media experts. The results were rather alarming...
    Were they orange ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
    "Whatabout..?"

    I'm not particularly interested in the left-liberal virtue signalling of, "hey, look at me, look at how open-minded, fair and unbigoted I am, particularly compared to you", stuff.

    We need to get beyond that. We've had far too much of that over the last 10-15 years and it's allowed some serious issues to incubate.

    We have a serious problem here with political Islam.

    Engage with it.
    Blair invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. We started it!
    Whatever started it is important context but if there's a problem establishing the starting point is less significant than addressing it.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,102
    eek said:

    " “We have an arbitrary fiscal rule that treats public investment as if it is bad. This is absurd,” said TS Lombard’s Mr Perkins. The two main parties have both accepted this destructive arrangement as if it were sacrosanct. Both are having to back away from their core strategies.

    This is toxic in a democracy. It is not needed, either. The markets know the difference between bad borrowing for consumption, and good borrowing that lifts productivity, and that pays for itself through the multiplier. Bond vigilantes will discipline idiocy without any need for a fiscal watchdog."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/02/23/bank-england-risks-pushing-britain-economic-death-trap/

    We are truly f**ked.

    On one level that’s an article from AEB that I can agree with, but equally AEB has written something that makes sense.

    This universe simulation has truly gone wrong
    The flip side is that when you have politicians investing public money, they always invest it in something they think will have high return. Of votes.

    Any idiot in the City could tell them they need a balanced portfolio.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,256

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.

    An Islamic political party in the UK is a really really bad idea.

    What on earth are some of you smoking?

    For once we agree, but I'd caveat that with I think any overtly religious political party is a bad idea for this country.
    Yes, but let's not pretend there's an equivalence.

    We all know there's only one religion that's currently happy at its extreme end to use mainstream violence to achieve political ends.
    I can think of at least five.
    Let's stop trying to pretend so we sound all fair and equal and don't pick anyone out: we have a problem with Islamic extremism. A significant one.

    There's also one with some fringe far-right organisations. There isn't with Jewish, Buddhist or Christian organisations.

    In India, I'd argue the BJP and Hindu nationalism is getting close.
    And the Religious Zionist Party in Israel…? Violent Buddhist monks in Sri Lanka and Myanmar? The Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda?

    If you want to focus on the UK, this is from last year: “The terrorism threat level in Northern Ireland is increased from substantial to severe, meaning the risk of attack or attacks is now "highly likely" instead of "likely". The move, based on an MI5 intelligence assessment, reverses a downgrade to the threat level in 2022, the first such downgrade in 12 years.”
    "Whatabout..?"

    I'm not particularly interested in the left-liberal virtue signalling of, "hey, look at me, look at how open-minded, fair and unbigoted I am, particularly compared to you", stuff.

    We need to get beyond that. We've had far too much of that over the last 10-15 years and it's allowed some serious issues to incubate.

    We have a serious problem here with political Islam.

    Engage with it.
    We have a serious problem in the UK with sectarian tensions in Northern Ireland. Engage with it.

    Is there a serious problem with "political Islam" in the UK? Tensions are currently running high over the Gaza war. I don't detect much "political Islam" in that. The main political ideology pushing a pro-Palestinian position are the far left, Corbynite/SWP types. I'd very happily team up with you to go after the SWP. (Let's not forget how they protected Martin Smith!)
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,545
    geoffw said:

    Superb piece, Cyclefree.
    On Today this morning in a piece about the legitimacy of protesting outside MPs' homes I heard "Just Stop Oil" become "Just Stop Tory Oil"

    You could argue that direct action is what people do when they can't win genuine electoral support.
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    Cyclefree said:

    FFS! This government can't even manage to exonerate convicted subpostmasters properly ..... 😡

    https://open.substack.com/pub/rozenberg/p/flaw-in-the-ointment?r=2ch8i4&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

    It gets worse.

    More than 250 victims of Post Office scandal have died without justice

    In April The Times found that 59 postmasters who had fallen foul of the Horizon IT fiasco had died. That figure has since quadrupled

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/post-office-scandal-postmasters-dead-d66m3jbv6
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    Interesting thread on Google’s woke AI problems:

    https://x.com/yishan/status/1760859214875132161

    That’s not why this is important. This event is not significant for culture war reasons. You just think so because that’s all anyone is thinking about these days, and everyone has missed the real danger.

    What did you think of Liz Trump's speech?
    I haven't watched it yet. :)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,519
    Interesting thread on how Sora works (or might work)
    https://twitter.com/MattNiessner/status/1760843660424306727
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,826
    edited February 23

    Interesting thread on Google’s woke AI problems:

    https://x.com/yishan/status/1760859214875132161

    That’s not why this is important. This event is not significant for culture war reasons. You just think so because that’s all anyone is thinking about these days, and everyone has missed the real danger.

    Yes, I think that is very much worth reading. These models are entirely unable to perform the most basic of sanity checks.
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    Religious extremists in this country have murdered thousands in this country including MPs but Norn Iron is another country and their parties are in power in parts of this country.

    Religious extremist propped up Mrs May’s government too.
This discussion has been closed.